NationStates Jolt Archive

Sounds like the NHS is hard up for dentists.

Wow - 1500 patients crammed onto one dentist.

http://dentistry.co.uk/news/news_detail.php?id=648

An NHS dentist took her own life after succumbing to the pressures of her spiralling workload, an inquest has heard.

Ingrid Gill, 46, felt let down after being forced to resign after suffering with ill health. She had become distressed at being the only NHS dentist at the Birdgate practice in Pickering, North Yorkshire, and managing a list of 1,500 patients on her own.

Coroner Michael Oakley heard that Mrs Gill took an overdose of anti-depressants and whisky.

Her husband of 17 years, Ian Gill, told the inquest that his wife received little support from the practice, which had been without NHS dentists for some time.

So I guess they'll be forced to keep this guy...

http://news.scotsman.com/latest.cfm?id=527832007

LONDON (Reuters) - A dentist was found guilty on Thursday of urinating in his surgery sink and using dental tools meant for patients to clean his fingernails and ears.

A medical tribunal said it was satisfied the evidence showed 51-year-old Alan Hutchinson, who "routinely" did not wear gloves or wash his hands, had risked the health of "himself, staff and patients" for more than 28 years.

Any of you go to an NHS dentist? How's the service? Anyone seen Arthur Lemming?

I haven't been to the dentist in years but last time I went the guy was just quite and worked fast, then again instead of lollipops he gave out stickers so I think he was a massive prick :p

to be honest though I've never met anyone who had any complaints about the NHS maybe they use the gas when they want to be naughty?

Anti Dentite Bastard!

My dentist is NHS, I think. Works fine for me...

Here in the US, I go to a dentist every six months for a cleaning. How often do people in the UK go to a dentist (if under NHS)?

How often do people in the UK go to a dentist (if under NHS)?

not unless I have too especially since I'm now at the age where I have to pay (I think)

Here in the US, I go to a dentist every six months for a cleaning. How often do people in the UK go to a dentist (if under NHS)?

Sometimes six months, sometimes a year; I have good teeth.

Edit: And you should bear in mind that there are plenty of private dentists here. And from what I've heard they're cheaper than yours...

Sounds like the NHS is hard up for dentists.

Wow - 1500 patients crammed onto one dentist.

The US have, depending on which source you look at, a dentist-to-patient ratio of anywhere from 55 to 60 per 100,000, making the average number of patients crammed onto one dentist anywhere from 1,818 down to 1,666.

The number for Germany (http://www.aok-bv.de/service/zahlen/av/index.html) is 1,269 patients per dentist, which apparently is among the best ratios internationally.

So, while 1,500 is high, it's not outlandish and it certainly isn't some inherent problem of publicy funded health care systems.

Sometimes six months, sometimes a year; I have good teeth.

Edit: And you should bear in mind that there are plenty of private dentists here. And from what I've heard they're cheaper than yours...

Cleanings are pretty cheap - it's when you want whitening or implants that things get expensive.

The US have, depending on which source you look at, a dentist-to-patient ratio of anywhere from 55 to 60 per 100,000, making the average number of patients crammed onto one dentist anywhere from 1,818 down to 1,666.

The number for Germany (http://www.aok-bv.de/service/zahlen/av/index.html) is 1,269 patients per dentist, which apparently is among the best ratios internationally.

So, while 1,500 is high, it's not outlandish and it certainly isn't some inherent problem of publicy funded health care systems.

So there's no shortage of NHS dentists? Even with dentists abandoning NHS practice for private practice?

Cleanings are pretty cheap - it's when you want whitening or implants that things get expensive.

I think our dentist charges about $40 for an office visit. He won't participate in dental insurance plans, so I suppose his office staff can use their time more productively than filing and re-filing claims.

Cleanings are pretty cheap - it's when you want whitening or implants that things get expensive.

On the NHS cleaning and/or checkup is about £15. Dunno about private, can't find any prices.

I think I saw an ad for whitening at my dentist's; £200, IIRC. Obviously not covered by the NHS. They can bugger off, frankly :p

And the reason dentists will leave the NHS is probably very simple; do private dentists get paid more?

On the NHS cleaning and/or checkup is about £15. Dunno about private, can't find any prices.

I think I saw an ad for whitening at my dentist's; £200, IIRC. Obviously not covered by the NHS. They can bugger off, frankly :p

And the reason dentists will leave the NHS is probably very simple; do private dentists get paid more?

The cleaning sounds a tad cheaper (not much cheaper though). The whitening sounds about right.

If I wanted an implant (a false tooth with a carbon fiber/metal alloy socket implanted in bone), it would be 4000 dollars per tooth.

So there's no shortage of NHS dentists? Even with dentists abandoning NHS practice for private practice?

There was study (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2004/05/10/ndent10.xml&sSheet=/news/2004/05/10/ixhome.html)a couple years back that showed almost 31 million people were served by fewer than 4 NHS dentists per 10,000 people. A patient load of more than 2500 does seem excessive.

Then there was the anecdote about the guy that couldn't get a dentist to see him, so he super-glued his tooth back on.
http://img.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2006/11/gordoncook13106_228x151.jpg
I'm not ready to abandon my dentist and dental care system.

If I wanted an implant (a false tooth with a carbon fiber/metal alloy socket implanted in bone), it would be 4000 dollars per tooth.

:eek:
That's a lot for a tooth. Dunno how much it is here, I've probably never known anyone rich enough to have had it... They've always just had normal false teeth.

It sounds like a lot of expense and hassle for one tooth...

So there's no shortage of NHS dentists? Even with dentists abandoning NHS practice for private practice?
From what I've read I haven't gotten the impression that the British NHS is doing very well these days and I'm not going to be put on the spot to defend a system I don't know very much about.

Your mixing together of "Look at the horrible state this taxpayer funded socialist relic is in, 1500 patients!" and an article about one dentist that doesn't even even mention if he's NHS or private practice, however, kind of needs pointing out that it's not, in fact, in as horrible a state as you're making it out to be.

Or, you know, maybe it is. Maybe the difference between 1269 patients per dentist and 1500 patients per dentist is tremendous. I wouldn't know, it's certainly possible. In that case, maybe you might want to make your next thread an expose on the system with the 1666 to 1818 patients per dentist.

From what I've read I haven't gotten the impression that the British NHS is doing very well these days and I'm not going to be put on the spot to defend a system I don't know very much about.

Your mixing together of "Look at the horrible state this taxpayer funded socialist relic is in, 1500 patients!" and an article about one dentist that doesn't even even mention if he's NHS or private practice, however, kind of needs pointing out that it's not, in fact, in as horrible a state as you're making it out to be.

Or, you know, maybe it is. Maybe the difference between 1269 patients per dentist and 1500 patients per dentist is tremendous. I wouldn't know, it's certainly possible. In that case, maybe you might want to make your next thread an expose on the system with the 1666 to 1818 patients per dentist.

You missed Myrmidonisia's post about 2500 NHS patients per dentist in a study.

There was study (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2004/05/10/ndent10.xml&sSheet=/news/2004/05/10/ixhome.html)a couple years back that showed almost 31 million people were served by fewer than 4 NHS dentists per 10,000 people. A patient load of more than 2500 does seem excessive.
But it wouldn't be that high, because they haven't counted private dentists. Not saying more NHS dentists wouldn't be good in some places, but no need to twist statistics.

I'm not ready to abandon my dentist and dental care system.
And that's why we have private dentists too...

You missed Myrmidonisia's post about 2500 NHS patients per dentist in a study.Yeah, no.

I'm talking about national averages, he's talking about the areas with the most extreme shortages. If you want to play extremes, I randomly give you Alabama (http://www.arhaonline.org/PDF%20Files/V9No3.pdf) (only the state with the fifth lowest ratio of dentists to population, so there are four others that are worse off):
While there
were 2,931.6 residents per general or pediatric
dentist in Alabama during 2003, the potential patient
load varied greatly between urban (counties in
Metropolitan Statistical Areas prior to the new listing
in June 2003) and rural counties (all other counties).
There were 2,570.0 residents per dentist in urban
counties and 4,374.6 residents per dentist in
Alabama’s rural counties. This difference means that
on the average, the number of patients potentially
served by rural dentists is more than 70 percent
greater than the number served by urban dentists.
There is also considerable variation in the potential
patient loads within Alabama’s rural counties. There
were 4,251.0 residents per dentist in the rural
counties in North Alabama - those in the Appalachian
Region. This ratio was 4,575.0 residents for each
dentist in the rural counties of South Alabama.

I'm also talking about all dentists in a country, he's talking about NHS dentists in a country that has private practitioners, too.

Yeah, no.

I'm talking about national averages, he's talking about the areas with the most extreme shortages. If you want to play extremes, I randomly give you Alabama (http://www.arhaonline.org/PDF%20Files/V9No3.pdf) (only the state with the fifth lowest ratio of dentists to population, so they're four others that are worse off):

I'm also talking about all dentists in a country, he's talking about NHS dentists in a country that has private practitioners, too.

RTFL (Read the F....g Link)

The study I mentioned divided the UK into Primary Care Trusts. Almost 200 of these trusts (which sounds like a large number to me) have fewer than 4 NHS dentists per 10,000 people. That sounds like a widespread (bigger than Alabama) area with more than 2500 people to each dentist. In fact, the target was 5 dentists to each 10,000 and only 26 trusts were able to meet that figure.

That sounds like a widespread (bigger than Alabama) area with more than 2500 people to each NHS dentist.

Fixed.

RTFL (Read the F....g Link)

The study I mentioned divided the UK into Primary Care Trusts. Almost 200 of these trusts (which sounds like a large number to me) have fewer than 4 NHS dentists per 10,000 people. That sounds like a widespread (bigger than Alabama) area with more than 2500 people to each dentist. In fact, the target was 5 dentists to each 10,000 and only 26 trusts were able to meet that figure.
I had read the fucking link. I assumed that the trusts were small areas. I just looked it up and at the time of the article's publication, the 198 trusts with less than 4 dentists per 10,000 people were out of 303 trusts altogether.
It still doesn't change the fact that those are only part of all dentists available.

I'm going crazy because I'm unable to find ANY decent international comparisons on this, nor United States ones comparing the 50 states. The ADA knows all about the latter but doesn't tell online.