NationStates Jolt Archive

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/6526589.stm

And yet I still hear people (mostly outside NS) prattle, "Why doesn't the world like us?"

And yet I still hear people (mostly outside NS) prattle, "Why doesn't the world like us?"

I've never heard anyone say that.

Usually it's: "I can't believe that fuktard got elected twice."

I've never heard anyone say that.

Usually it's: "I can't believe that fuktard got elected twice."

Once. He got elected once. The first election was fixed, the second election played on American stupidity and fear.

They are being held in extreme isolation and sensory deprivation is being used. What did you expect at a jail that is considered a Super-Max prison? That they were gonna get to watch American Idol and play Solitaire all day while feasting on cooked duck and sipping fine wine? Ohh thats right if we let the Liberals and international community have their way all criminals will be rewarded for their behavior in such a way. It's jail time not a football game people.

The only issue is people being held unjustly. Either give them their day in court or declare them POWs.

They hate us for our freedom.

Once. He got elected once. The first election was fixed, the second election played on American stupidity and fear.

Ah, so he is eligible for his third... ,I mean, SECOND term then?

The only issue is people being held unjustly.

A pretty big issue, don't you think? Considering that they can't challenge their imprisonment....

And we think we can complain about Iran.

Ah, so he is eligible for his third... ,I mean, SECOND term then?

That's not funny. Seriously don't joke like that :(

They hate us for our freedom.

Oh, that's right. I forgot. :(





;)

A pretty big issue, don't you think? Considering that they can't challenge their imprisonment....

And we think we can complain about Iran.

I never said it wasn't a big issue. Personally if they are being held and aren't American citizens, I think they should be considered POWs and told that and be held as such until it can be proven they are innocent of whatever they are being held for.

Calling this a War on Terrorism and calling all the people the capture as "Terrorist" only makes things harder on the military. Call it war and call the captives POWs and follow the rules that accompany such titles.

Don't expect POWs to be treated nicely though. I'm not losing any sleep that someone is sitting in solitary confinment for building an IED and killing a US soldier. You just have to have the proof to back up the claim 'said person' is a POW.

I think they should be considered POWs and told that and be held as such until it can be proven they are innocent of whatever they are being held for.

You just have to have the proof to back up the claim 'said person' is a POW.

These two statements are contradictory.

Furthermore - would you object if US soldiers taken as POWs were treated horribly?

No offesne meant to them, how are they getting this infromation?

Did not cite sources.:(

Just remember, not every American wants the blight on our honor that is Guantanomo Bay.

Define Horrible treatment? Are we talking torture? Because sitting in solitary for 23 hours a day with nothing but a toilet, cot and desk isn't horrible treatment in my eyes. If by horrible you mean torture and the likes then I would have issues with it. And by torture I mean pulling nails from the skin, beatings, shock-treatment and the likes.

Ah, so he is eligible for his third... ,I mean, SECOND term then?

you know what, since the 22nd amendment states "no person shall be elected to the office of the President more than twice" why am I half seeing bush arguing that since he wasn't legally elected the first time, he's only been elected into office once, and gets to run again...

you know what, since the 22nd amendment states "no person shall be elected to the office of the President more than twice" why am I half seeing bush arguing that since he wasn't legally elected the first time, he's only been elected into office once, and gets to run again...

Well, he is a "strict constructionist", so he should interpret the law by exactly what it says.

They hate us for our freedom.

I completely agree

Define Horrible treatment? Are we talking torture? Because sitting in solitary for 23 hours a day with nothing but a toilet, cot and desk isn't horrible treatment in my eyes. If by horrible you mean torture and the likes then I would have issues with it. And by torture I mean pulling nails from the skin, beatings, shock-treatment and the likes.

You mean like the ones once practiced by the US-supported dictatorships in my country and in several other Latin American ones? Despite what you would have us believe, the options aren't between "let's feed our prisoners caviar" and "let's lock them up in mediaeval conditions".

You mean like the ones once practiced by the US-supported dictatorships in my country and in several other Latin American ones? Despite what you would have us believe, the options aren't between "let's feed our prisoners caviar" and "let's lock them up in mediaeval conditions".

Which country do you live in?

Which country do you live in?

Brazil.

Brazil.

Ah.

Ah.

Of course, there were worse dictatorships in Latin America (Argentina and Chile come to mind), but the one here was still pretty bad.

Of course, there were worse dictatorships in Latin America (Argentina and Chile come to mind), but the one here was still pretty bad.

Agreed. Let's hope it never happens again.

Define Horrible treatment? Are we talking torture? Because sitting in solitary for 23 hours a day with nothing but a toilet, cot and desk isn't horrible treatment in my eyes. If by horrible you mean torture and the likes then I would have issues with it. And by torture I mean pulling nails from the skin, beatings, shock-treatment and the likes.

How about a good waterboarding? (http://www.current.tv/pods/controversy/PD04399)
Seriously, click the link.

Define Horrible treatment? Are we talking torture? Because sitting in solitary for 23 hours a day with nothing but a toilet, cot and desk isn't horrible treatment in my eyes. If by horrible you mean torture and the likes then I would have issues with it. And by torture I mean pulling nails from the skin, beatings, shock-treatment and the likes.

How about repeated near death experiences?

They are being held in extreme isolation and sensory deprivation is being used. What did you expect at a jail that is considered a Super-Max prison? That they were gonna get to watch American Idol and play Solitaire all day while feasting on cooked duck and sipping fine wine? Ohh thats right if we let the Liberals and international community have their way all criminals will be rewarded for their behavior in such a way. It's jail time not a football game people.

The only issue is people being held unjustly. Either give them their day in court or declare them POWs.
I'm not even going to begin to point out... :rolleyes:

Just remember, not every American wants the blight on our honor that is Guantanomo Bay.And that not-wanting leads to what? Guantanomo is still up and running, isn't it?

lol why are you all coming to me like I have all the answers or does my opinion really fascinate you that much? That guy in the video was right though about people passing the buck. Someone should be made accountable by default so that when something like that happens, we know who to blame.

You mean like the ones once practiced by the US-supported dictatorships in my country and in several other Latin American ones? Despite what you would have us believe, the options aren't between "let's feed our prisoners caviar" and "let's lock them up in mediaeval conditions".
Yeah that's a real shame, you all should do something about that.

How about a good waterboarding? (http://www.current.tv/pods/controversy/PD04399)
Seriously, click the link.
That's pretty messed up stuff. From a legal stand point I'd say it's open to debate. From my personal stand point I consider that torture.

How about repeated near death experiences?
Huh? What do you mean?

I'm not even going to begin to point out... :rolleyes:
I think the question is, "Can you?" Next time try an argument that isn't a Straw Man. If you actually have something I'd like to see it.

Huh? What do you mean?


Waterboarding is a method to of faking drowning to simulate NDEs.

Waterboarding is a method to of faking drowning to simulate NDEs.
lol well I know that, the person before you was talkin' about it. I didn't know you were talking about it too so I apologize. Stuff like waterboarding I already mentioned that I consider to be torture so I think it's wrong. Obviously someone in an actual position of power thinks otherwise.

I never said it wasn't a big issue. Personally if they are being held and aren't American citizens, I think they should be considered POWs and told that and be held as such until it can be proven they are innocent of whatever they are being held for.

Calling this a War on Terrorism and calling all the people the capture as "Terrorist" only makes things harder on the military. Call it war and call the captives POWs and follow the rules that accompany such titles.

Don't expect POWs to be treated nicely though. I'm not losing any sleep that someone is sitting in solitary confinment for building an IED and killing a US soldier. You just have to have the proof to back up the claim 'said person' is a POW.

NO NO NO NO.........

You have to prove them GUILTY. They are innocent until then. You cannot just round people up and say 'prove your innocent (but we won't give you lawyers, funds, visits - instead we'll lock you up 23 hours a day)

Great legal system working there:rolleyes:

Just remember, not every American wants the blight on our honor that is Guantanomo Bay.

Just every other American.

NO NO NO NO.........

You have to prove them GUILTY. They are innocent until then. You cannot just round people up and say 'prove your innocent (but we won't give you lawyers, funds, visits - instead we'll lock you up 23 hours a day)

Great legal system working there:rolleyes:

Oh, but they're "combatants" after that they don't need any sort of appeal to prove otherwise.

lol well I know that, the person before you was talkin' about it. I didn't know you were talking about it too so I apologize. Stuff like waterboarding I already mentioned that I consider to be torture so I think it's wrong. Obviously someone in an actual position of power thinks otherwise.

Sensory deprivation can actually be far worse than physical torture at times, especially for prolonged periods. Without contact with other people for practically the entire day, for years at time, can cause mental illness, including depression, anxiety, mania, and sleughs of other problems. In worst-case scenarios, it may cause complete mental breakdowns of individuals, scarring their minds for life.

And trust me, after having only depression for as long as I can remember, I would not even wish that upon my worst enemy, or even take the risk there-of, let alone the other problems involved with near-complete isolation. The worst types of torture are not the ones that leave physical scars, but the ones that leave mental scars.

Oh, but they're "combatants" after that they don't need any sort of appeal to prove otherwise.

The British one freed recently was 'arrested' in Gambia - that is a West African country, about 3000 miles from the war - hardly a combatant at the time

The British one freed recently was 'arrested' in Gambia - that is a West African country, about 3000 miles from the war - hardly a combatant at the time

But... but... the administration said he was one. Surely you would trust what they said over such trifling things as facts! :eek:

:rolleyes: :p

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/6526589.stm

And yet I still hear people (mostly outside NS) prattle, "Why doesn't the world like us?"

More like "The world doesn't like us. And this is news?"

No one likes a hegemonic power.

The international community, and also many americans from every state except texas, want this place closed down, yet bush just makes the conditions even worse. He really needs to grow up, and realise that you cannot strip people of their freedoms to protect their freedoms.

The international community, and also many americans from every state except texas, want this place closed down, yet bush just makes the conditions even worse. He really needs to grow up, and realise that you cannot strip people of their freedoms to protect their freedoms.

QFT.

Yeah that's a real shame, you all should do something about that.

Brazil freed itself, against the military dictatorship you supported. So did the rest of Latin America. You, however, openly embrace the notion of human rights being tossed through the window. Which is ironic, seeing as these rights are supposed to protect YOU.

If you are British you want to be captured by Iranians, not Americans...Unless, of course, you're a masochist.