NationStates Jolt Archive

Before I rant about my particular situation, I'd like to know where NSG stands on the issue in general.

Firstly, are you a member of a union, or have you ever been a member of a union.

Secondly, are you generally in favour of unions, or do you dislike them?

I am a union member and I love it. I think it's no coincidence that corporate profits went up and wages got stagnant when Reagan neutered the NLRB and broke the Air Traffic Controllers union.

So-so, like all things I think they can and have been abused.

Had I known 25 years ago that I would still be in my line of work, I would have joined the union.

Free association (Especially Unions) for the win.

Unions got a little out of hand in the late '70's, but the pendulum has gone way to far the other way. We now have slave wages and record profits. The unions created the American middle class and without them the middle class is disappearing.

Now we hear there are jobs Americans won't take. Those didn't exist when there were unions. For instance a slaughter house job paid $17/hr in 1980, the same job pays $9/hr today....and for some reason they are totally staffed by illegals.

The bible says not to muzzle the ox that walks the threshing floor. Deut 25:4 In other words, those that do the work should get a fair share of the harvest. Without unions businesses forget that little lesson.

Well, here's my particular situation;

The company I currently work for is now Teamsters. Wasn't always this way. I started working there in 99', and shortly thereafter, a group of disgruntled drivers who worked for a temp agency (working 100% for my company) brought in the Teamsters. Enough Union cards were signed to create the union.

However, there were legal wrangles about whether or not those temp service drivers were 'employees', and whether or not all of our contract drivers were 'employees' or 'sub-contractors'. It dragged on for years in court, and the whole time this happened, the company claimed 'we can't give raises until this dispute with the union is resolved'.

I left that company in early 04'. I came back in September 07', and now it is officially unionized, and has been for 3 years. When they came into power, they gave enough of a raise to everyone, to pay their union dues.

The current state is this:

Very few people who signed the Union cards that brought the union into effect, actually still work there. There is a lot of disagreement amongst employees about whether or not they even want it. Some employees are paid by the hour, some by mileage, and some by perecentage of contract.

Some of our employees are union, and some are not. There are 4 separate 'companies' that operate under our main companies banner, who aren't unionized. We have a warehouse in Mississauga, that isn't unionized. We have a warehouse in Montreal, that isn't unionized. Half of our labour, is paid cash, and works under the table.

How does a driver, who pays for his own fuel, claims, etc., and who gets paid on a commission basis, benefit from the union? He can't get 'a raise', unless they can negotiate a higher percentage in their contract (and they haven't), and he's paying higher labour costs, if the labour gets a union-inflated raise. (Or he pays under the table, and we have more under-the-table labour competing with union members.)

We had a strike vote on Sunday. The vote was 69-29 in favour of striking, which we can't do until May 23rd. We can vote on a final offer from the company, if they make one, before that, otherwise we're on strike. But half of the company, in it's many guises, won't be, not to mention it's extra warehousing and cash labour that can just operate from home.

Now, as frustrating as all of that is, I know for a fact that the owner who's the main force behind the company's side of the negotiations is a cheap bastard, admittedly so. On paper, he's my direct boss, so I deal with him almost every day. He can definitely pay more than he does, seeing as during the 3 years I've been gone, the company aquired a 3rd warehouse, 2 additional 'companies', and most recently bought out another transportation company, all whilst having a union onboard.

They deserve to have the strike take place. I just don't know what good it can do, if half of the company isn't union, and half the union doesn't want to be union. (A lot of drivers didn't show up to the strike vote, because they were out of town on delivery, or didn't get the message that the strike vote was taking place. The union used to place messages in the driver's mail slots, but the company told them they weren't allowed to.)

My dad grew up around unions and was part of the PBA for twenty years, so he's pro-union, even though he readily admits that most of them are poorly run and corrupt to the core. Me? When I was taking state and local government and the topic was unions, I was called a scab, and stated that several of the things that unions pushed for were BS (dental coverage when your job isn't dependent on how healthy your teeth are, payment for family members even though the company didn't employ them). Hell, when we were to be divided up and do some mock union negotiations, I wanted to try and be an independent worker. I spent most of that time off to the side, staring into space.

I hate unions, though they've been around for thousands of years (as guilds), so I have to live with them.

I strongly support unions. That said, I don't support government support for unions.

If your workers are underpaid and they strike, management should not be able to replace them and will need to capitulate. A union can be integral in assessing this and advising on whether or not to strike, in addition to providing services to represent the workers of a company.

In the event that their wages are fair for the work they do or above fair and they strike, management will be able to replace the striking workers with those who are willing to take the jobs and should do so.

Inevitably somebody is going to come along and point out that they don't feel a market wage is a fair wage, which essentially what I am arguing. Market wages only exist at low rates because other people are unemployed and willing to do the jobs in question. In that case, why should workers be getting higher wages at the expense of the unemployed?

Unions are like everything else: Corporations, municipal services, charities &c. They can be good or bad thing depending upon who is running them, and what they are being run for.

(Except for municipal/government employees. Their unions shouldn't be allowed to give campaign contributions or start PACs and such because it is a clear conflict of interest.)

As a Socialist, I think the government should act as a universal union...

As a Socialist, I think the government should act as a universal union...

Gah!

*shudders*

When I read the thread title, I initially thought it said, "Unicorns: Love 'em or Hate 'em?"

I'm neutral on that. Don't dislike them, but I definitely wouldn't play leapfrog with one.

Coward.

EDIT: Smiley Implied. :-)

When I read the thread title, I initially thought it said, "Unicorns: Love 'em or Hate 'em?"

I'm neutral on that. Don't dislike them, but I definitely wouldn't play leapfrog with one.

The teamsters is a good union. My father-in-law worked Yellow for many years. I'm sure the teamsters have it figured out how to help all of these situations. It's not like they haven't ran into this same situation before.

I'm fine with unions except when the public transit system decides to strike. Then I'll start complaining about janitors getting $90,000 salaries and heavy employee benefits.

The first job I got I was forced to join the union. I got absolutely nothing out of it except for dues and more than a couple scoldings for actually going above and beyond the call of duty because my employer was so afraid of getting sued by the union. The pay was still crappy except I'd have the constant drain of the union to drive me down to a buck above minimum wage. So do I hate unions? Hell yeah! The only one I was ever a part of brought me nothing but misery so I'd say my anti-union stance is pretty damn justified, too.

Also, they interfere with free trade.

The teamsters is a good union. My father-in-law worked Yellow for many years. I'm sure the teamsters have it figured out how to help all of these situations. It's not like they haven't ran into this same situation before.

The company I work for is kind of complicated.

We're a freight hauling company, a warehousing company, a household moving company, a photocopier distribution centre, auto-hauling company... I'm sure I'm forgetting something. Each division has it's own particular needs and interests, and the Teamsters can't address each division separately, as the government has decreed that we are all under the same contract.

I work in the Household Goods division. The number of unionized people in my sector is about... 10 to 12 people. That is less than 4% of the overall unionized membership. The HHG business is much, much different than hauling freight. Yet, brokers who are paid on a commission basis, still have to pay union dues, and gain no benefit from it.

On the freight side, which is by far the largest sector, the company driver vs. sub-contractor ratio is close to 50/50. Most of these drivers are unionized (and strangely, some are not.) The drivers who have to make truck payments, have more to worry about than the drivers that are driving company vehicles.

It's not a simple situation that the Teamsters can fix with a couple of placards and a few strategically placed tractor-trailers. At least, I don't think that it is. I can only hope that the thought of losing a big GM contract might push the company into offering a better contract before May 23rd.

I was with the IAFF (International Association of Fire Fighter) for my 20 year career. The main reason that I joined was that if something happened to me on duty, there would be someone to make sure that the proper paperwork was filed so my wife would get the survivor benefits. I heard all that crap from the IAFF how they would make sure, blah blah blah. As a government employee, the union has no say so in our pay.

Long story short, I suffered a career ending injury while on duty. When I filed my paperwork with the IAFF, I was told that since my disability occurred on the job, that I was not covered for any benefits whatsoever, that Workmans Comp would have to take care of the issue. So much for all the tripe how they would be there to take care of me if something happened on duty!!! By the way, after being told I did not qualify for any union benefits, they wanted to know if I would remain in the Union, as a full paying dues member.

For private industry, if a union shop goes on strike, they will offer you a strike benefit. It is usually around $150 a week, not enough to feed a family and take care of the mortgate etc.

Go figure.

Vic

I am hoping to join the Longshore Workers' Union when I turn 21. They've made the job a very decent one.

Unions are great when rooted in reality.