NationStates Jolt Archive

How does it even affect you in the first place? How does the fact the gays are getting married hurt the fact the you are married? So why do think that you need a law against it? Can't you just go back to hating gays with out trying to pass laws against them like the rest of the "ists".

How does it even affect you in the first place? How does the fact the gays are getting married hurt the fact the you are married? So why do think that you need a law against it? Can't you just go back to hating gays with out trying to pass laws against them like the rest of the "ists".

Because it undermines the sanctity of marriage, much the way being an atheist undermines their Christianity, or living in another country undermines their citizenship, or doing anything that they don't enjoy undermines their freedom.

"Sanctity"... That's a good one! :p

Because it undermines the sanctity of marriage, much the way being an atheist undermines their Christianity, or living in another country undermines their citizenship, or doing anything that they don't enjoy undermines their freedom....or as stupidity undermines intelligence??

Because men do not want other guys to be able to find the easy way out of a relationship with the emotion swings that women have.;)

Because men do not want other guys to be able to find the easy way out of a relationship without the emotion swings that women have.;)

lol.

I oppose marriage generally, but I suspect the reasoning could go something like this:

If society because too corrupt and debauched, God will destroy it. Remember Gomorrah, and all they had was two wet sheep and a car battery.

How does it even affect you in the first place? How does the fact the gays are getting married hurt the fact the you are married?

Some jackoffs (such as the ever-lovable Pat Robertson :rolleyes:) think that God will "punish" us for tolerating homosexuals.

When I think about gays getting married, I get this sharp pain in my side, and my eyes start to water, and I can't keep any food down. When I think about them adopting children, I also get this weird burning sensation in my extremities, almost as if God is trying to use my toes to say that homosexuality is wrong and that James Dobson should be declared spiritual leader of America.

When I think about gays getting married, I get this sharp pain in my side, and my eyes start to water, and I can't keep any food down. When I think about them adopting children, I also get this weird burning sensation in my extremities, almost as if God is trying to use my toes to say that homosexuality is wrong and that James Dobson should be declared spiritual leader of America.

Wow. I was lauhging so hard i almost didn't notice your sarcasm.

When I think about gays getting married, I get this sharp pain in my side, and my eyes start to water, and I can't keep any food down. When I think about them adopting children, I also get this weird burning sensation in my extremities, almost as if God is trying to use my toes to say that homosexuality is wrong and that James Dobson should be declared spiritual leader of America.

:eek: For the love of God, please tell me that's a joke.

When I think about gays getting married, I get this sharp pain in my side, and my eyes start to water, and I can't keep any food down. When I think about them adopting children, I also get this weird burning sensation in my extremities, almost as if God is trying to use my toes to say that homosexuality is wrong and that James Dobson should be declared spiritual leader of America.
Nah, that's just gas. You know it's God when the message specifically states the name "Fred Waldron Phelps, Sr." *nod*

:eek: For the love of God, please tell me that's a joke.

Can't you tell yourself?

Nah, that's just gas. You know it's God when the message specifically states the name "Fred Waldron Phelps, Sr." *nod*

O Sh.t! I got one of those telling me to stop eating donuts and go to confession, and I totally threw it out. F.ck...I'm going to hell.

Because it undermines the sanctity of marriage, much the way being an atheist undermines their Christianity, or living in another country undermines their citizenship, or doing anything that they don't enjoy undermines their freedom.

Like the sanctity of Britney's two marriages. <nods>

How does it even affect you in the first place?

That's a pretty poor standard upon which to judge anything.

Thousands of people dying in Iraq or Darfur doesn't affect me all that much either.

Can't you just go back to hating gays

Actually, I'd rather if they didn't.

Thousands of people dying in Iraq ... doesn't affect me all that much either.


Actually, that depends which invading nation you live in...
But thats for a completely different thread.

How does it even affect you in the first place? How does the fact the gays are getting married hurt the fact the you are married? So why do think that you need a law against it? Can't you just go back to hating gays with out trying to pass laws against them like the rest of the "ists".

Because all people should follow God's laws is my own personal view of the matter. However, it also cheapens marriage and makes it seem as if anybody can get married to anything. This is not a good message to send to children nor is granting these sort of rights to those who choose to engage in this behaviour. Children may get the idea that practicing homosexuality and what not is ok and should be tolerated.

Because all people should follow God's laws is my own personal view of the matter.

If it is god's law that people who love each other shouldn't be with each other than fuck god and his laws.


However, it also cheapens marriage and makes it seem as if anybody can get married to anything.

Yes, yes, because letting someone marry the person he/she loves makes it seem that "anybody" can get married to "anything". After all, a gay man is comparable to a child, or a sheep, or a rock, after all. Not like a consenting adult or anything.

Children may get the idea that practicing homosexuality and what not is ok and should be tolerated.

Good

Children may get the idea that practicing homosexuality and what not is ok and should be tolerated.

Why shouldn't they?

If it is god's law that people who love each other shouldn't be with each other than fuck god and his laws.




you should be more careful with what you say.

Because all people should follow God's laws is my own personal view of the matter.

You mean, "What I believe God's law to be."

kkthanx

However, it also cheapens marriage and makes it seem as if anybody can get married to anything.

:rolleyes: Yes, "Consenting adults can have their union legally recognized," is exactly the same thing as, "YOU CAN MARRY ANYTHING!!!!!!"

Seriously, did your brain drop out when you found religion?

I could just as well say something like, "Allowing women to marry Muslim men makes it seem as if anybody can get married to anything!"

This is not a good message to send to children nor is granting these sort of rights to those who choose to engage in this behaviour. Children may get the idea that practicing homosexuality and what not is ok and should be tolerated.

Oh noes! Children might learn that being themselves and trying to find a loving relationship is OK!

Why shouldn't they?

to me its no different than giving the ok to incest or adultery.

It annoys and disgusts me.

to me its no different than giving the ok to incest or adultery.

Then your outlook is idiotic.

you should be more careful with what you say.

no, and I'll say it again.

Fuck god, and his laws.

Seriously, did your brain drop out when you found religion?

No, he was like this before, too.

There was a thread about Utah porn laws that included a discussion of homosexuality with Atheist-Soviestan; it was similar, only now God is invoked.

SSM has been legally implemented in a few countries and U.S. states for quite some time now, and as far as I know, there haven't been people running around frantically as if there was some apocalypse.

you should be more careful with what you say.

Hah, I've said much, much worse and God has never done anything to me.

If God is homophobic, then I'm with Arthais: fuck Him and fuck His laws. We don't need such disgusting bigoted nonsense polluting our societies.

SSM has been legally implemented in a few countries and U.S. states

Not states. State. massachusetts is the only state in the united states with same sex marriage.

New Jersey, Connecticut and Vermont have same sex civil unions that are efectively identical in all but name, but are not legal marriages.

Then your outlook is idiotic.

why? they are basically the same thing

How does it even affect you in the first place? How does the fact the gays are getting married hurt the fact the you are married? So why do think that you need a law against it? Can't you just go back to hating gays with out trying to pass laws against them like the rest of the "ists".

Agreed.

Would you like a gin and tonic? I've even got some fresh lime tonight :D

I'm opposed to all marriage really what I say is we have the state not accept any marriages and gives up on this tax break nonsense

course the God squad will tell me that if gay people get treated like human beings then civilization will crumble...cause you' know gay people have that super-power and all of them secretly the bum you at night!!!!11 :eek:

they are basically the same thing

Adultery - sex with someone other than one's designated marital partner

Incest - sex with a family member

Same-sex intercourse - sex with someone of the same sex

Come again?

why? they are basically the same thing

except for the fact that they aren't, in the slightest.

Adultery is arguable immoral because it violates a vow and causes emotional trauma to the non cheating partner.

Incest creates a risk of genetic mutation in offspring as well as the present fears of a power imbalance.

Which of those conditions exist? Go on, tell me how similar they are.

you should be more careful with what you say.

ROFL!

Watch out, Allah's going to strike me down! Whoooo!

Fuck Allah. I'm still typing. Hasn't struck me down yet. Maybe I'm insulting the wrong God?

The Biblical God is a son of a bitch? Still nothing?

Then Yahweh can lick my nut sack.
Ahura Mazda is a fagot.
Apollo liked Titanic.
Odin's mother's is a whore.
The sun is only huge because Ra is compensating for his pencil dick.

It annoys and disgusts me.

I could say the same for not donating your organs but I still allow it

*notes down to kiss some guy tomorrow just too annoy you*

except for the fact that they aren't, in the slightest.

Adultery is arguable immoral because it violates a vow and causes emotional trauma to the non cheating partner.



Homosexuality is clearly immoral, must I quote the Qur'an again?

Incest creates a risk of genetic mutation in offspring as well as the present fears of a power imbalance.

Which of those conditions exist? Go on, tell me how similar they are.
engaging in homosexual behaviour increases the odds of getting AIDS or other STDs as gays on a whole are irresponsible with sex practices.(not saying all, just many so don't jump down my throat)

I find it funny that an equal number people who support gay marrage are as bigoted as the people who oppose it. They cry and demand for the rest to accept their/the lifestyle and then mock those who choose not to or use religion as their excuse. Such hypocracy does not further your cause any better, no matter what you think. Those who oppose it for their own reasons, but it doesn't make them right. And those of you who support it for your reasons, but that doesn't make you right either. Get off your high horses please ...

As for my own personal opinion, I disagree with the lifestyle, but as a Libertarian, gay men and women getting married does not affect my life one bit. Therefore I see no reason why they should not be allowed to marry one another. There are fit gay parents who can raise an adopted child fine just like there are those who are not fit to be parents. My only problem would be if they tried to force their lifestyle on the child. Let him/her come to their own conclusions about homosexuality and the parents should do everything in their power to allow that child to formulate their own opinion. That goes for straight married couples as well.

I think the real question is, "If we allow gays to marry, where do we draw the line?" Pologamy? Pedophiles? People who want to marry inanimate objects or animals? Afterall none of those lifestyles affect yours either, but I don't see anyone championing the rights of NAMBLA, even when the boys are for it.

Homosexuality is clearly immoral, must I quote the Qur'an again?


As a liberal Protestant, I can tell you with certitude that the Quran has no bearing on any of my beliefs.

Not states. State. massachusetts is the only state in the united states with same sex marriage.

New Jersey, Connecticut and Vermont have same sex civil unions that are efectively identical in all but name, but are not legal marriages.

I wouldn't say identical. Close, perhaps, but definitely not identical.


why? they are basically the same thing

Cheating on someone is basically the same thing as being in a committed, monogamous relationship with someone of the same sex?

What planet are you on?

I'm opposed to all marriage really what I say is we have the state not accept any marriages and gives up on this tax break nonsense

I really wonder what this "tax break nonsense" people go on and on about is. I'm getting married next month, and it damn sure isn't getting us any tax breaks. It is, however, making our assets better protected, ensuring that we have the legal authority to act as next of kin, ensuring that those we owe money can get that money, etc., etc., etc.

Homosexuality is clearly immoral, must I quote the Qur'an again?

I would have hoped the double iterations of "fuck god and his rules" would have made it rather clear that i reject your version of god as an authority.

But if I must say so again...fuck god, and his rules, and fuck the Qur'an as a source.


engaging in homosexual behaviour increases the odds of getting AIDS or other STDs as gays on a whole are irresponsible with sex practices.(not saying all, just many so don't jump down my throat)

I'm curious in what world marrying and being committed to one person increases the odds of getting AIDS

Homosexuality is clearly immoral, must I quote the Qur'an again?

I thought you said it was clearly immoral? You shouldn't have to quote anything to demonstrate it if it is clear.

engaging in homosexual behaviour increases the odds of getting AIDS or other STDs as gays on a whole are irresponsible with sex practices.(not saying all, just many so don't jump down my throat)

So you are opposed to irresponsible sex practices then. Good, so are most rational people. What does that have to do with the price of eggs in China?

I wouldn't say identical. Close, perhaps, but definitely not identical.

No, they are. Connecticut and Vermont passed laws basically saying that civil unions granted ALL rights of married couples.

New Jersey didn't even have that option, court ruled it was constitutionally REQUIRED that gay couples be granted EXACTLY the same rights. In these three states civil unions are extremely similar and functionally identical.

Many states such as California, Hawaii and Maine have domestic partnerships that are close, but not quite the same, but civil unions in CT, VT, and NJ are effectively legally identical.

In NJ it's constitutionally required that they be so.

Homosexuality is clearly immoral, must I quote the Qur'an again?

oh look morales and religious texts how modern and rational will you also be telling me that I should adhere to the Code of Hammurabi?

engaging in homosexual behaviour increases the odds of getting AIDS or other STDs as gays on a whole are irresponsible with sex practices.(not saying all, just many so don't jump down my throat)

well actually gays are very safe nowadays the gay community has made massive effort in this field especially in having themselves tested (in the area of testing its funny to note that religious men are less likely to be tested)

...I'd say safer than snogging most girls you meet on a Saturday night really

why? they are basically the same thing

It is really hard to be tolerant of Muslims when you act like such a ****.

*snip*

NU: You're awesome.

They cry and demand for the rest to accept their/the lifestyle and then mock those who choose not to or use religion as their excuse.

So we're "bigoted" against... bigotry.

Excellent. Such is the stance of any decent person.

Get off your high horses please ...

There is no argument against same-sex marriage that is at all compatible with reason.

This is simply not a matter open to interpretation.

even when the boys are for it.

Actually, if we had a way of being sure that they really were, and possessed the cognitive capacity necessary to make a decision like that, I would have no problem whatsoever.

ROFL!

Watch out, Allah's going to strike me down! Whoooo!

Fuck Allah. I'm still typing. Hasn't struck me down yet. Maybe I'm insulting the wrong God?

The Biblical God is a son of a bitch? Still nothing?

Then Yahweh can lick my nut sack.
Ahura Mazda is a fagot.
Apollo liked Titanic.
Odin's mother's is a whore.
The sun is only huge because Ra is compensating for his pencil dick.

sigged.

It is really hard to be tolerant of Muslims

"Soviestan" is not equal to "Muslims," thank the Flying Spaghetti Monster.

I thought you said it was clearly immoral? You shouldn't have to quote anything to demonstrate it if it is clear.


its clear to me

So you are opposed to irresponsible sex practices then. Good, so are most rational people. What does that have to do with the price of eggs in China?

last time I check they were like 5 yuan. It could have changed since I was there, though.

you should be more careful with what you say.

I don't know, God might be a great lay. Not as good as Aphrodite probably but still . . .

its clear to me

I have some bad news for you. A moment ago, a post-it note magically and miraculously appeared on my desk.

This magical miracle post-it note reads the following:

"I actually have no problem with gays. Soviestan is wrong, and his religion is false. Thank you for your time, God"

Now given that this note must have been written by god, as it most clearly says so, I can only conclude that you are incorrect, and god relaly is quite ok with gays. After all, he said so himself in my magical and mystical post it note.

why? they are basically the same thing

Demonstrate how.

I have some bad news for you. A moment ago, a post-it note magically and miraculously appeared on my desk.

This magical miracle post-it note reads the following:

"I actually have no problem with gays. Soviestan is wrong, and his religion is false. Thank you for your time, God"

Now given that this note must have been written by god, as it most clearly says so, I can only conclude that you are incorrect, and god relaly is quite ok with gays. After all, he said so himself in my magical and mystical post it note.
Forgive me your dismissing your nonsense.

Homosexuality is clearly immoral, must I quote the Qur'an again?

No, you must provide a reason for it's immorality other than "My deity says so. So there, nya nya".

Forgive me your dismissing your nonsense.

Ohhh that's such a nice setup

When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.

Now please prove that my magical and mystical post-it note is not the divine word of god.

then mock those who choose not to or use religion as their excuse. Such hypocracy does not further your cause any better, no matter what you think.

apart from the fact that I've never had a homosexual force me to accept there lifestyle and no there is no excuse to abuse human rights

My only problem would be if they tried to force their lifestyle on the child.

you could say like all those fairy tales do...

I think the real question is, "If we allow gays to marry, where do we draw the line?"

when there is consenting adults the same argument is used to ban gay sex

I really wonder what this "tax break nonsense" people go on and on about is. I'm getting married next month, and it damn sure isn't getting us any tax breaks.

I don't know about America taxation but some countries give a tax break if your married presumably to make up for the Marriage penalty (to do with tax forms listing a higher income)

ensuring that we have the legal authority to act as next of kin, ensuring that those we owe money can get that money

you can surely do that anyway though

I've got no problem with gay couples wanting to be together, wanting the same tax breaks, that kind of stuff. But just call it something else. And try to weed out the phonies. I read a story once about a couple of heterosexual drinking buddies that got "married" in Canada for the tax break.

you can surely do that anyway though

You'd be surprised. Courts have tossed wills and power of attorney documents that detail what is to be given to the same sex partner.

It actually happens very often.

You'd be surprised. Courts have tossed wills and power of attorney documents that detail what is to be given to the same sex partner.

It actually happens very often.

That is a sad truth.

I would have hoped the double iterations of "fuck god and his rules" would have made it rather clear that i reject your version of god as an authority.

But if I must say so again...fuck god, and his rules, and fuck the Qur'an as a source.

Further more the Bible is not a valid source for this argument, your book of shadows is not a valid source for this argument, the Principia Discordia is not a valid source for this argument, the Gospel of the Flying Spaghetti Monster is not a valid source for this argument, NO holy book you can think of is a valid source for this argument. Argue from something fact based, not something belief based, and tell me again why homosexuality is immoral.

So we're "bigoted" against... bigotry.
Excellent. Such is the stance of any decent person.

Non sequitur, but I'll humor you anyways.

You fight bigotry with bigotry which makes those who do it hypocrits and does nothing to help the people/cause for which you are trying to help.

last time I check they were like 5 yuan. It could have changed since I was there, though.

Man, I hate you with the burning passion of a thousand fiery hells, but that was still funny. :D

Fuck god, and his laws.

Fuck Allah. I'm still typing. Hasn't struck me down yet. Maybe I'm insulting the wrong God?

The Biblical God is a son of a bitch? Still nothing?

Then Yahweh can lick my nut sack.
Ahura Mazda is a fagot.
Apollo liked Titanic.
Odin's mother's is a whore.
The sun is only huge because Ra is compensating for his pencil dick.
fuck god, and his rules, and fuck the Qur'an as a source.
I don't know, God might be a great lay. Not as good as Aphrodite probably but still . . .

http://www.insurevents.com/images/Lightning_strike.jpg
Headshot! Double Kill!


It is really hard to be tolerant of Muslims when you act like such a ****.
The others were attacking the argument. You're attacking the poster. Warned. Knock it off, NOW.

~ Frisbeeteria ~
NationStates Game Moderator
The One-Stop Rules Shop

Non sequitur, but I'll humor you anyways.

You fight bigotry with bigotry which makes those who do it hypocrits and does nothing to help the people/cause for which you are trying to help.

Define "bigotry" for me. Last time I checked, rational criticism of another's beliefs, particularly when they affect social policy in the country you live in, wasn't bigotry.

ROFL!

*snip*

Tee hee. :p

Also, I feel that this thread should really be rewritten in the form of the following dialogue:

Arthais101: You see, this cat God is a bad mother-
Soviestan: Shut yo' mouth!
Arthais101: But I'm talking about God.
Everyone else: Then we can dig it!

"Soviestan" is not equal to "Muslims," thank the Flying Spaghetti Monster.

I pray that Soviestan is touched by His Noodley Appendage.

They want to keep marriage a sacred thing for the normal male-female relationship.

ROFL!

Watch out, Allah's going to strike me down! Whoooo!

Fuck Allah. I'm still typing. Hasn't struck me down yet. Maybe I'm insulting the wrong God?

The Biblical God is a son of a bitch? Still nothing?

Then Yahweh can lick my nut sack.
Ahura Mazda is a fagot.
Apollo liked Titanic.
Odin's mother's is a whore.
The sun is only huge because Ra is compensating for his pencil dick.

That right there is bigotry. This person isn't helping the gay marrage cause by mocking the person's beliefs he has quoted. That is hypocracy and I have seen many other examples in real life and on TV filming at rallies. Mocking a person because their view differs from yours isn't rational criticism of another's beliefs.

I don't see why you all are getting so defensive. I never said any of you (with the exception of the person I just quoted) was doing that. Have any repressed guilt that you are trying to justify? It was only an observation, and an accurate one that reflects both sides in my opinion, I made ... especially when either side starts thinking with their emotions instead of common sense.

That right there is bigotry. This person isn't helping the gay marrage cause by mocking the person's beliefs he has quoted.

I doubt his intention was to help anything but the anti-religious cause.

And Soviestan persistently fails to respond to reason. If we are going to get anything out of this at all, it might as well be amusement.

-0snip0.

I'm gonna fill out a perscription for one sense of humor. Take it daily fifteen minutes before logging onto the forums unless you want to experience migrains, impotence, and anal leakage.

I'm gonna fill out a perscription for one sense of humor. Take it daily fifteen minutes before logging onto the forums unless you want to experience migrains, impotence, and anal leakage.

It was more of an example of the types of bigotry being used, but yes if there was sarcasm I failed to notice it so I apologize if your intent was purely comedy. Believe it or not I have quite a sense of humor. Get to know me better and you'll get to see it :p

Soviestan is the kinda person I'm talking about though. He's on the other side of this debate, obviously, but it's flawed logic to assume that only one side of a debate acts in such a way while the other is somehow immune to logical fallacies.

It was more of an example of the types of bigotry being used, but yes if there was sarcasm I failed to notice it so I apologize if your intent was purely comedy. Believe it or not I have quite a sense of humor. Get to know me better and you'll get to see it :p

Soviestan is the kinda person I'm talking about though. He's on the other side of this debate, obviously, but it's flawed logic to assume that only one side of a debate acts in such a way while the other is somehow immune to logical fallacies.

but this is not an isolated incident. This poster has a specific history. One where it indicated he will not respond to reason, or logic, or give any justification for any of his positions other than "god said so".

Given that, what is left BUT to mock him?

Because men do not want other guys to be able to find the easy way out of a relationship with the emotion swings that women have.;)Mine is the only real reason admit it.;)

lol.Agreed.

It was more of an example of the types of bigotry being used, but yes if there was sarcasm I failed to notice it so I apologize if your intent was purely comedy. Believe it or not I have quite a sense of humor. Get to know me better and you'll get to see it :p

Soviestan is the kinda person I'm talking about though. He's on the other side of this debate, obviously, but it's flawed logic to assume that only one side of a debate acts in such a way while the other is somehow immune to logical fallacies.

I didn't post it, but I laughed out loud reading it. I also don't believe anyone actually thinks like that, but was more trying to make a point.

Point out every logical fallacy you see around here and you're arm will fall off by tomorrow. Sometimes it's best to step back and watch two people bash each others heads in. Unfortunately Fris had to step in and ruin it :p

Don't let me tell you what to do though. I've been on these forums for so long I'm utterly dead inside.

Forgive me your dismissing your nonsense.

What makes it any more nonsense than your arguments?

No worries I didn't think you were tellin' me what to do Luporum.And don't worry 'bout my limbs either ... when I see that people abandon logic in large numbers I just ignore the poster or the topic all together, so my limbs are fine and will remain as such lol.

And Arthais, you can always ignore him. Works wonders on the ulcers ...

No worries I didn't think you were tellin' me what to do. Don't worry when I see that people abandon logic in large numbers I just ignore the poster or the topic all together so my limbs are fine and will remain as such lol.

And Arthais, you can always ignore him. Works wonders on the ulcers ...

Just be careful, typing with one arm is horrible :(

*continues jamming stub into the keyboard*

Homosexuality is clearly immoral, must I quote the Qur'an again?




Who cares if you quote the quran? it has about as much moral authority over me as the bible does

engaging in homosexual behaviour increases the odds of getting AIDS or other STDs as gays on a whole are irresponsible with sex practices.(not saying all, just many so don't jump down my throat)

Source?

Homosexuality is clearly immoral, must I quote the Qur'an again?


engaging in homosexual behaviour increases the odds of getting AIDS or other STDs as gays on a whole are irresponsible with sex practices.(not saying all, just many so don't jump down my throat)

No, in a monogamous relationship, even a homosexual one, in which neither partner has HIV, there is very little chance of getting it. Especially if safer sex practices are used.

Because all people should follow God's laws is my own personal view of the matter. However, it also cheapens marriage and makes it seem as if anybody can get married to anything. This is not a good message to send to children nor is granting these sort of rights to those who choose to engage in this behaviour. Children may get the idea that practicing homosexuality and what not is ok and should be tolerated.

All this talk about cheapening marriage. I suppose you'll be wanting to abolish divorce then?

Cheapening marriage? Hah, just an excuse to hide bigotry.

Otherwise places like Las Vegas would upset you. Shows like "Who wants to marry a midget" would really burn you up. The divource rate in America is 50% of all marriages, and yet you've made no protest to those.

Somehow when gays try to marry everyone tries to 'sanctify' the process of marriage. When in the past they've easily turned a blind eye to the above.

Just say you hate gays and get over with it.

I fail to see how gay marriage affects heterosexual marriage, especially since "traditional marriage" has changed anyways. For example, polygamy. Islam and Mormonism allow for polygamy, but laws in western countries don't allow for that practice. Therefore, I don't see how the Qu'ran can be used as a guideline of what traditional marriage should be (especially in a world where not everyone is a conservative Muslim. Or a Christian for that matter). I see nothing wrong with homosexuals asserting their right to have their monogamous relationship protected and recognized, especially where there is a misconception that homosexuals are promiscuous and irresponsible. The only thing that gay marriage destroys is a stereotype. If anything it seems to me that the only opposition to gay marriage is purely based on a gut reaction.

No, they are. Connecticut and Vermont passed laws basically saying that civil unions granted ALL rights of married couples.

And yet, neither state has that option, as some of the rights granted to married couples are granted by the federal government or by treaties with foreign governments. As such, they are not identical. A straight couple married in Connecticut, Vermont, or New Jersey could move to any number of countries and, either by tradition or by actual treaty, that other country would be required to recognize those marriages. The treaties do not mention civil unions, however, so those countries would not have to recognize a gay couple.

None of the civil unions will be recognized by the federal government as marriages are. None of them will be recognized by other states as marriages are.

As such, they are not equivalent.

In NJ it's constitutionally required that they be so.

It's too bad NJ can't actually make a "civil union" that is actually equivalent then, huh?

I don't know about America taxation but some countries give a tax break if your married presumably to make up for the Marriage penalty (to do with tax forms listing a higher income)

Wait, so they give a "tax break" to make up for the "marriage penalty." In other words, there is no tax break at all. All they are doing is equalizing it. How interesting.

you can surely do that anyway though

No, not really. We could get some of the protections afforded by marriage, if we wanted to pay a great deal of money in lawyers' fees and such. But the only way to get all of them (and be relatively sure that they will be enforced) is to become legally married.

All this talk about cheapening marriage. I suppose you'll be wanting to abolish divorce then?

I'd bet he would. He also supports the right for a husband to strike his wife you know, but than I suppose kids won't get the wrong idea seeing women being physically abused. :rolleyes:

They want to keep marriage a sacred thing for the normal male-female relationship.

Yep. I don't want two girls marrying each other and making me feel cheap about the 5 minute wedding I got from Elvis.

I've got no problem with gay couples wanting to be together, wanting the same tax breaks, that kind of stuff. But just call it something else. And try to weed out the phonies. I read a story once about a couple of heterosexual drinking buddies that got "married" in Canada for the tax break.

And straight marriages are always for the love?

Hang about... since so many people end up breaking apart their 'straight' marriages to follow the sexuality they were born with... isn't fostering a straight-marriage-only policy actually fostering 'phony' marriages?

engaging in homosexual behaviour increases the odds of getting AIDS or other STDs as gays on a whole are irresponsible with sex practices.(not saying all, just many so don't jump down my throat)

I'd like to see your 'evidence' for this.

Statistics currently show male-female transmission of HIV to be the most high-risk vector group.

If we are going to use the 'oh noes, I might get a bug' argument, we should be favouring gay marriage - especially lesbian marriages, since lesbian sex is the lowest risk of all.

And straight marriages are always for the love?

Yeah, kind of like the marriages where a person will marry a soldier they barely know to get the health benefits. That's all about love.

ROFL!

Watch out, Allah's going to strike me down! Whoooo!

Fuck Allah. I'm still typing. Hasn't struck me down yet. Maybe I'm insulting the wrong God?

The Biblical God is a son of a bitch? Still nothing?

Then Yahweh can lick my nut sack.
Ahura Mazda is a fagot.
Apollo liked Titanic.
Odin's mother's is a whore.
The sun is only huge because Ra is compensating for his pencil dick.

Best...post...EVER!

You win the thread.

Yeah, kind of like the marriages where a person will marry a soldier they barely know to get the health benefits. That's all about love.

The one I was thinking about was actually the Immigration office guy shaking my hand as he handed me my Permanent Resident card, and telling me it was nice to see a genuine couple, since most 'immigrant marriages' that they deal with turn out to be routes to a green card.

I'm chuckling to myself, amused that you guys would expect an actual argument from Soviestan and those like him.

The one I was thinking about was actually the Immigration office guy shaking my hand as he handed me my Permanent Resident card, and telling me it was nice to see a genuine couple, since most 'immigrant marriages' that they deal with turn out to be routes to a green card.

That one was too obvious though. At least it worked for you - I'm guessing since you're British. Some people spend years trying to get their spouses into the country. =(

Because it undermines the sanctity of marriage, much the way being an atheist undermines their Christianity, or living in another country undermines their citizenship, or doing anything that they don't enjoy undermines their freedom.

Lolz. You are a funny guy.

SSM has been legally implemented in a few countries and U.S. states for quite some time now, and as far as I know, there haven't been people running around frantically as if there was some apocalypse.

I'll do ya one better-- I've been to a same-sex wedding. If anyone remembers the hooplah over the 'brokeback mounties' in Nova Scotia, those guys are friends of mine and I was at the ceremony. Let's see, there was a harp player, a justice of the peace, way more straight people (guests) than I'm used to hanging around with, and probably the best cheesecake I've ever had in my life. Absent: fire and brimstone.

It's been legal here for over a year and a half, and we're doing just fine, there's no yawning hellmouth at the US border.

Grind it down real simple, and you've basically got 3 types of people who really have a problem with treating same-sex relationships the same as the other kind: the religious types who are limited by their dependence on some codified superstitious group-think in order to escape the terror of a mysterious universe, the simple traditionalists who might not have the religious hang-ups but are scared of society changing (more specifically, they're afraid of losing their priviledged status and having to share something that made them "special" with all those 'others'), and the base ignorant rednecks who hate "them thar' gays" because they just plain dislike everyone who isn't like them. There are nuances of each, there are cross-breeds, but those are the three essential, poisonous wells that resistence to equal marriage spring from. The sooner they're capped off, the better.

Homosexuality is clearly immoral, must I quote the Qur'an again?

Don't bother. Those of us who don't live in some backwards theocracy are not bound by the mumbo-jumbo morality. If you can come up with an argument that's based on some universally accessible ground-- something that doesn't depend on personal religious beliefs that haven't been substantiated for the receiver of the argument-- then we'll entertain that. But if all you've got is "because Holy Book X says so," then it's utterly irrelevant to everyone who doesn't buy into that particular brand name of superstition.

engaging in homosexual behaviour increases the odds of getting AIDS or other STDs as gays on a whole are irresponsible with sex practices.(not saying all, just many so don't jump down my throat)

engaging in *any* unprotected sex increases the odds of getting an STD if one of the parties involved has it. It doesn't matter if it's two guys or two girls or a guy and a girl, if one of the people taking part has something, *that* presents the risk, not the orientation of the participants. So then your case depends on this idea that gay people are more irresponsible. Oh, of course you throw in that pedantic disclaimer "just many, not all." Well newsflash, "many, but not all" straight people engage in unprotected sex too. And in case you hadn't heart, there was a fairly good stretch there, a few years back, when the hightest rates of new HIV infections were in straight women, contracting it from 'straight' men who happened to be fucking around with other guys on the side. What's more, where gay men have practiced self-destructive behaviours, what do you think is the cause of that? I can tell you: lower self-esteem because of straight bigotry. Homophobic pricks impressing on society that "gay people are worthless," and actually causing some gay people to believe it to the extent that they don't feel compelled to take care of themselves. So guess what, sweetheart-- don't have to take a baseball bat or a tire iron to a queer to have their blood on your hands. Devaluing them to the extent that they lose their self-respect and figure "why bother protecting myself" makes one complicit in the spread of HIV.

It's simple. Gay people getting married destroys marriages. A man or woman might-no, will- walk down the street, and spot a gay couple. And (s)he'll know their married. And then he or she will become gay. Instantly. It's caused by Gamma Gaydiation.

Some jackoffs (such as the ever-lovable Pat Robertson :rolleyes:) think that God will "punish" us for tolerating homosexuals.

Not to be a literalist, but if he practices what he preaches he isn't a jerkoff.

Not to be a literalist, but if he practices what he preaches he isn't a jerkoff.

Nor a cocksucker.

(Of course, that one is the highest of compliments.)

Not to be a literalist, but if he practices what he preaches he isn't a jerkoff.

Must be why he acts like one. :p

You know those claims that if we legalize gay marriage people will marry their cats? I don't see the problem with this.



Because I don't know about you guys, but I'd prefer people who'd want to marry their cats not contribute to the gene pool.

You know those claims that if we legalize gay marriage people will marry their cats? I don't see the problem with this.

Well, how would the cat consent?

Homosexuality is clearly immoral, must I quote the Qur'an again?

Go ahead. It will be just as trite, stupid, and irrelevant no matter how many times you quote it.

Well, how would the cat consent?

"Kitty McKittenstein, do you take Bob to be your lawfully wedded..yadayadayada"

"Meow."

"I now pronounce you man and cat."

It's simple. It's caused by Gamma Gaydiation.Hang on, I thought it was Gayme Radiation? ... I's always the last to know anything. Life's so bloody unfair I thinks I'll ave to take up religion just to endure it.

But being serious for a moment; I don't know whose puppet you are The Gay Street Militia, but I'd marry you and carry your babies and everything in a heartbeat. Sadly polygamy's still banned 'round here.

"Kitty McKittenstein, do you take Bob to be your lawfully wedded..yadayadayada"

"Meow."

"Was that a 'yes' meow or a 'no' meow?"

Well, how would the cat consent?

It couldn't. Which makes the fear of these people to be totally foolish. Marriage is a contract after all and I don't believe I know of any animal, plant, mineral or whatever the hell else someone might want to try to have sex with that can sign anything official.

"Was that a 'yes' meow or a 'no' meow?"Means "I fully expect a can of sardines twice daily, if I'm to marry this disgusting ****."

Means "I fully expect a can of sardines twice daily, if I'm to marry this disgusting ****."

"And if not, well... let's just say that nothing within scratching distance will be safe."

I can say this with all of the due seriousness it deserves.

Soviestan, I do not force my religious, moral or ethical beliefs upon you. If you wish to marry in a "traditional" heterosexual manner...heck, if you want to marry at "Elvis the King of Rock'n'Roll's Temple of Instant Marriage Gratification," then please feel welcome to do so. I have no say in it.

I would appreciate it if you stop forcing your oddly truncated, "Islamic" beliefs upon me.

Who I choose to spend my life with is NONE OF YOUR DAMN business, butt the fuck out. If I choose to marry a man (and one day I will despite you and your bigoted friends attempts to prevent me from being a first class citizen of the nation I defended, was born in and love) it does NOT AFFECT YOU or your marriage to a female. You have no standing.

Dennis Leary has a wonderful therapy, it's called "The Shut the Fuck Up Therapy," I would find it immensely entertaining if you would seriously accept this therapy voluntarily.

Well, how would the cat consent?
Cats can say almost every letter in the Alphabet.

How does it even affect you in the first place? How does the fact the gays are getting married hurt the fact the you are married? So why do think that you need a law against it? Can't you just go back to hating gays with out trying to pass laws against them like the rest of the "ists".

No. The gays are getting uppity lately and it is time to put them back in their place ---DEEP INSIDE A CLOSET AND BURIED IN A PERSONAL SENSE OF SHAME!!!!

Because men do not want other guys to be able to find the easy way out of a relationship with the emotion swings that women have.;)

That doesn't work. You should meet some of my brother's boyfriends. Ironically he has been known to envy MY lack of drama and I'm with a female.

To the OP: It's not accurate to link people who oppose gay marriage with a hatred for homosexuals. While there are plenty of cases where the two go together, there are plenty where they don't and as long as you encumber yourself with that assumption you make it extremely difficult to have a meaningful dialogue with someone about it.

No. The gays are getting uppity lately and it is time to put them back in their place ---DEEP INSIDE A CLOSET AND BURIED IN A PERSONAL SENSE OF SHAME!!!!

We are people too. If you tickle us, do we not laugh? If you cut us, do we not bleed?

Reflect upon this, grasshopper.

"Kitty McKittenstein, do you take Bob to be your lawfully wedded..yadayadayada"

"Meow."

"I now pronounce you man and cat."

OMG

Forgot to feed my wife this morning :eek:

To the OP: It's not accurate to link people who oppose gay marriage with a hatred for homosexuals.

I've yet to hear an argument rooted in anything else. You know any?

While there are plenty of cases where the two go together, there are plenty where they don't and as long as you encumber yourself with that assumption you make it extremely difficult to have a meaningful dialogue with someone about it.

The only meaningful dialog possible on the subject is "Equal rights for everybody, quit being a bigot".

I've yet to hear an argument rooted in anything else. You know any?

I don't hate you. I just want to treat you like shit and make certain that you can't receive the same legal protections I can. That doesn't have anything to do with hate. It really means I love you!

Wow! I can play this game!


The only meaningful dialog possible on the subject is "Equal rights for everybody, quit being a bigot".

I'm not a bigot. You have equal rights. You can marry a member of the opposite sex. It doesn't matter that you're not going to form that type or relationship with such a person. It doesn't matter that your relationships and your children will go unprotected by the same laws that mine will be protected by. I'm still saying you have equal rights. Neener neener neener!

Homosexuality is clearly immoral, must I quote the Qur'an again?

So because some holy book says something is immoral, that automatically make it true? Care to tell us what exactly makes it so horrible?