NationStates Jolt Archive

MSN UK news

Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad said on Wednesday he would free 15 British sailors and marines as a "gift" to Britain. The president scolded Britain for not being "brave enough" to admit they had made a mistake and strayed into Iranian waters.
In a surprise announcement at the end of a lengthy news conference, Ahmadinejad said he was willing to make a "gift" to Britain, but he also awarded medals to the naval commanders who captured the 15 in the northern Gulf on March 23. He said the captives would be released immediately after the news conference as a "gift to the British people". Oil prices fell more than 50 cents after the announcement. Britain had no immediate comment.
The Iranian president said he was "saddened" by Britain's violation of its borders and goaded Britain by saying it should be brave and admit that it had made a mistake. "They are free after this meeting and can go back to their families," Ahmadinejad told a news conference broadcast live to many countries. Britain maintains the sailors and marines were operating in Iraq territorial waters when they were seized.

Phew. Well I'm just glad Iran didn't allow this situation to spiral out of control. I say it's better that we just let Ahmadinejad gloat as much as he likes about this, and take steps to make sure Iran can't pull something like this again.

For one thing, there needs to be aquatic borders drawn between Iran and Iraq, to put an end to this debate over Iranian and Iraqi waters. We need to make sure Iran doesn't use it's ambiguous claims against us again.

But will they keep this promise? They said they'd free Fey Turney but they changed their minds.

Phew. Well I'm just glad Iran didn't allow this situation to spiral out of control. I say it's better that we just let Ahmadinejad gloat as much as he likes about this, and take steps to make sure Iran can't pull something like this again.

For one thing, there needs to be aquatic borders drawn between Iran and Iraq, to put an end to this debate over Iranian and Iraqi waters. We need to make sure Iran doesn't use it's ambiguous claims against us again.

Sorry, but Iran is not the only bad guy in this one.

Sorry, but Iran is not the only bad guy in this one.

In this particular incident? Yeah, Iran is the only bad guy. There is no real evidence that the sailors were in Iranian waters. Iran kidnapped them, kept them hostage, and now wants credit for being a respectable nation because it's planning to release them. Doesn't work that way.

In this particular incident? Yeah, Iran is the only bad guy. There is no real evidence that the sailors were in Iranian waters. Iran kidnapped them, kept them hostage, and now wants credit for being a respectable nation because it's planning to release them. Doesn't work that way.

It does if the sailors were in their waters.

And if the iranians went to Iraq waters to capture these sailors, why none american or british ship saw them coming into Iraq waters?

And if the iranians went to Iraq waters to capture these sailors, why none american or british ship saw them coming into Iraq waters?
The reason there are patrols is because its impossible to monitor every part of Iraqi waters.

"We would have seen Iranians entering Iraqi waters" is a pretty weak argument.

The reason there are patrols is because its impossible to monitor every part of Iraqi waters.

"We would have seen Iranians entering Iraqi waters" is a pretty weak argument.

I'm sure the water borders are disputed also, for all we know Iran thinks the entire Persian gulf belongs to them after all it's the "Persian" gulf.

It does if the sailors were in their waters.

And if the iranians went to Iraq waters to capture these sailors, why none american or british ship saw them coming into Iraq waters?

You're talking about wide stretches of water with freighters, fishing boats, oil tankers and loads of other commercial traffic. You can't have eyes everywhere.

I hope it's over. Iran has done a lot wrong in this case, and should be the one to apologize for breaking international law and behaving like jerks. But I guess they felt like they had to send a message to the US and, to a lesser degree, Britain.

It does if the sailors were in their waters.

And if the iranians went to Iraq waters to capture these sailors, why none american or british ship saw them coming into Iraq waters?

The Cronwall did and wanted to defend them but was prevented from doing so by the Admiralty on orders.

You're talking about wide stretches of water with freighters, fishing boats, oil tankers and loads of other commercial traffic. You can't have eyes everywhere.

QFT
our RAN would say the same thing abount our own waters

What did Iran got out of it? They just went out of their way and took 15 "sailors" (I find it funny that no one has mentioned what kind of training or job they had) in a rubber boat, just because they felt like doing it?

First, the idea of 15 sailors out there on rubber boats. What the hell were they doing? Britain doesnt have proper boats for marines to patrol the area?

Sorry, but the whole idea is pretty stupid. First, I never felt these "sailors" were ever in any kind of danger. Second, I dont see why Britain and the US acted like bitches just because those guys were held a bit for questioning. Third, I just cant see why they have 15 guys out there on rubber boats to begin with. Fourth, taking military actions because of this sounds quite lame.

For me, this situation was just a reason for Britain to create a possible future war with Iran. US would follow. But talkings about Bush being impeached and all the other problems aborted the plan, and everything just back fired. Anyway, even Iran felt the deal was so stupid, saying that they were sending the marines back as a "gift". Good diplomatic move he made, by also giving medals to the soldiers who captured the english.

What did Iran got out of it? They just went out of their way and took 15 "sailors" (I find it funny that no one has mentioned what kind of training or job they had) in a rubber boat, just because they felt like doing it?

First, the idea of 15 sailors out there on rubber boats. What the hell were they doing? Britain doesnt have proper boats for marines to patrol the area?


you find they not the only navy that use them

What did Iran got out of it? They just went out of their way and took 15 "sailors" (I find it funny that no one has mentioned what kind of training or job they had) in a rubber boat, just because they felt like doing it?

Well, Ahmadinejad is now saying the release is a humanitarian action, and a gift to the British. Perhaps they wanted a propaganda opportunity?

They were in the derigibles because they were boarding a merchant ship from the Cornwall they could hardly draw the Cornwall alongside and jump from deck to deck that'd be even more pointless than your question.

Sorry, but the whole idea is pretty stupid. First, I never felt these "sailors" were ever in any kind of danger.


Maybe you are just getting used to all these hostage crises that seem to becoming a daily thing in the Iraq area.

Good. Proves that diplomacy works in these kinds of situations. We didn't force Iran into a corner where they couldn't back down from, and put our own captives in danger. Iran wanted a bit of dickwaving and propaganda, and while it might help on the domestic front, it hardly improves their international reputation. Now we can get onto the real issue - getting our troops home from Iran and Iraq.

I think the iranians were the winners here... and honestly, good for them. If you can score some major political points like this without hurting anyone, then you've gotta respect that.

What did Iran got out of it? They just went out of their way and took 15 "sailors" (I find it funny that no one has mentioned what kind of training or job they had)
Its been said many times that 8 were Marines and 7 were Navy (or the other way around)

First, the idea of 15 sailors out there on rubber boats. What the hell were they doing? Britain doesnt have proper boats for marines to patrol the area?
For the purpose of a patrol or boarding ships for inspection, I believe rubber boats are better.

Third, I just cant see why they have 15 guys out there on rubber boats to begin with.
Patrol...

Fourth, taking military actions because of this sounds quite lame.
Was military action ever seriously suggested?

I think at some point looking for ulterior motive in everything Britain/America does turns into blind conspiracy theories. It is quite possible to make a mistake. It is even more possible that this was planned by Iran and that the sailors were never in Iranian waters.

I think the iranians were the winners here... and honestly, good for them. If you can score some major political points like this without hurting anyone, then you've gotta respect that.

What about the families of the captured sailors? Actually I can't respect it because it was completely pointless. It hasn't really scored any points because everyone knows that they were wrong and was being rather confrontational.

Sorry, but Iran is not the only bad guy in this one.

Uh...not really.

What did Iran got out of it? They just went out of their way and took 15 "sailors" (I find it funny that no one has mentioned what kind of training or job they had) in a rubber boat, just because they felt like doing it?
The captured Brits were a mix of Marines and sailors based off of HMS Cornwall, who had been tasked with the interdiction of smugglers.

First, the idea of 15 sailors out there on rubber boats. What the hell were they doing? Britain doesnt have proper boats for marines to patrol the area?
The Brits were based off of the HMS Cornwall, which had dispatched them to interdict a freighter that had been suspected of smuggling automobiles. The "rubber boats" were short-range transports.

Sorry, but the whole idea is pretty stupid. First, I never felt these "sailors" were ever in any kind of danger. Second, I dont see why Britain and the US acted like bitches just because those guys were held a bit for questioning. Third, I just cant see why they have 15 guys out there on rubber boats to begin with. Fourth, taking military actions because of this sounds quite lame.
First: They had aggressively been seized by a hostile foreign power at gunpoint. The assumption of threat is one that's easy to make.
Second: This is a gross violation of international law. It's natural to get your panties in a bunch over this.
Third: Already covered, interdiction of smugglers.
Fourth: Agreed

For me, this situation was just a reason for Britain to create a possible future war with Iran. US would follow. But talkings about Bush being impeached and all the other problems aborted the plan, and everything just back fired. Anyway, even Iran felt the deal was so stupid, saying that they were sending the marines back as a "gift". Good diplomatic move he made, by also giving medals to the soldiers who captured the english.

You're nuts if that's what you think.

What did Iran got out of it? They just went out of their way and took 15 "sailors" (I find it funny that no one has mentioned what kind of training or job they had) in a rubber boat, just because they felt like doing it?

First, the idea of 15 sailors out there on rubber boats. What the hell were they doing? Britain doesnt have proper boats for marines to patrol the area?

Sorry, but the whole idea is pretty stupid. First, I never felt these "sailors" were ever in any kind of danger. Second, I dont see why Britain and the US acted like bitches just because those guys were held a bit for questioning. Third, I just cant see why they have 15 guys out there on rubber boats to begin with. Fourth, taking military actions because of this sounds quite lame.

For me, this situation was just a reason for Britain to create a possible future war with Iran. US would follow. But talkings about Bush being impeached and all the other problems aborted the plan, and everything just back fired. Anyway, even Iran felt the deal was so stupid, saying that they were sending the marines back as a "gift". Good diplomatic move he made, by also giving medals to the soldiers who captured the english.

They'd been sent to inspect a commercial vessel that had entered Iraqi waters to make sure there weren't weapons or foreign fighters on board. They were in rubber boats because they were moving from the frigate they are stationed on to the other ship.

I think the iranians were the winners here... and honestly, good for them. If you can score some major political points like this without hurting anyone, then you've gotta respect that.

What political points? They've just shown the world that they're not above crossing into a neighboring country's waters to kidnapp people.

Well, Ahmadinejad is now saying the release is a humanitarian action, and a gift to the British. Perhaps they wanted a propaganda opportunity?

of course they did, personally i think that initial capture was a fuck up decided upon by the very ship that captured them. i think that then once the iranian higher ups learnt of the capture they decided that the only thing to do was take them to Terran rather than hand them straight back and saying Whoops! or having them executed wich would have sparked a war they couldnt yet win.

i think that in the interests of keeping things as mess free as possible they decided to treat the prisoners in good conditions. they planned to relase them after a short amount of time, well fed and clothed in brand new fitted suits, to show that they were a civilised nation that needed to be reasoned with and cooperated with rather than threatened.

i think this was also a nod of the head to the two Iranians captured by the US in Iraq in january. a pair of iranian diplomats the us goverment has held without charge or news for months.

and as a final word to the americans i came to blows with in a different thread lately who said that the UK were spinless for not rescuing these sailors. your government has held british citizens without charge in guantanamo bay for 5 years now. one of them has spent pretty much the whole of his teens there. does this mean we should go to war with the US?

bit of devils advocate there;)
im not talking about a film!

What did Iran got out of it? They just went out of their way and took 15 "sailors" (I find it funny that no one has mentioned what kind of training or job they had) in a rubber boat, just because they felt like doing it?

First, the idea of 15 sailors out there on rubber boats. What the hell were they doing? Britain doesnt have proper boats for marines to patrol the area?

Sorry, but the whole idea is pretty stupid. First, I never felt these "sailors" were ever in any kind of danger. Second, I dont see why Britain and the US acted like bitches just because those guys were held a bit for questioning. Third, I just cant see why they have 15 guys out there on rubber boats to begin with. Fourth, taking military actions because of this sounds quite lame.

For me, this situation was just a reason for Britain to create a possible future war with Iran. US would follow. But talkings about Bush being impeached and all the other problems aborted the plan, and everything just back fired. Anyway, even Iran felt the deal was so stupid, saying that they were sending the marines back as a "gift". Good diplomatic move he made, by also giving medals to the soldiers who captured the english.

Well, at least this post shows you haven't been keeping up on what's been happening except for the item today and really have no idea what you're talking about in regards to the military.

Have a nice day.

so Iran didn't release the troops in the first place to...um...piss off the British public?

also its going to be interesting to see what the hostages have to say when there released

What political points? They've just shown the world that they're not above crossing into a neighboring country's waters to kidnapp people.
They've shown, in their view mind you, that they can do what the US can do. They've shown their willingness to protect their borders - seeing as how they still claim that the sailors were caught inside their waters and the same sailors have admitted to it on video (Not really worth much except as propaganda - and it's a huge propaganda win)

They have shown strength and resolve. They have shown that you might get what you want when dealing with Iran with a calmer tone and a lower temperature - a reflection of the nuclear issue, i.e. a signal that threats to bomb Iran isn't helping matters.

Iran will project this as a victory, and, at least in the short term, it was.

QFT
our RAN would say the same thing abount our own waters

We have the benefits of having a relatively large sea area that no one else wants. A bit more orbital surveilance would be good though.

QFT
our RAN would say the same thing abount our own waters

We have the benefits of having a relatively large sea area that no one else wants. A bit more orbital surveilance would be good though.