NationStates Jolt Archive

Specifically, how many of their followers (What percentage) strikes you as more brainwashed types then normal followers?

I'm leaning towards Scientologists. Since we only have 10 options, I excluded religions with very few radicals, creeps, terrorists, or beliefs that creep people out.

Specifically, how many of their followers (What percentage) strikes you as more brainwashed types then normal followers?

I don't believe the answer to this question is actually important in any way - as if having extremists is OK as long as you don't have the most.

I don't believe the answer to this question is actually important in any way - as if having extremists is OK as long as you don't have the most.

What I'm saying is, which religion strikes you as having the greatest number of brainwashed-seeming people. The kind of people who can't really come up with a good reason on why they are a member of that religion, and tend to dislike those of other religions. That sort of person.

Atheism. The art of thinking you're clever, and then closing your mind to other possibilities.

What I'm saying is, which religion strikes you as having the greatest number of brainwashed-seeming people. The kind of people who can't really come up with a good reason on why they are a member of that religion, and tend to dislike those of other religions. That sort of person.
Well, from what I've heard, brainwashing is pretty heavily involved in Scientology. Not just appealing to people's irrationality like others do, but proper systematic brainwashing.

Atheism. The art of thinking you're clever, and then closing your mind to other possibilities.
Atheism isn't any kind of "art". In fact, it isn't even a lack of religion. It's just one single belief - that there is no God. Your post makes you sound like the closed-minded one.

Any position that involves holding beliefs.

Scientology. What they actually do to people is horrific. It's inventor was someone who honestly claimed he just wanted to be rich and famous. It's members are all freaky celebrities backed by lawyers and politicos. Then there's the whole "scientological" tests, machines, etc. It's fucked up, way more than any [genuine] religion.

Scientology. Anyone who claims Tom Cruise is the messiah has lost all credibility.

What I'm saying is, which religion strikes you as having the greatest number of brainwashed-seeming people. The kind of people who can't really come up with a good reason on why they are a member of that religion, and tend to dislike those of other religions. That sort of person.

I would say at this moment in time it is Islam for sheer numbers. There is alot of misconception within the Islamic communities in Islamic nations about the world outside themselves. I am a Muslim myself and know this is a problem. It does not help they get a daily dose of Al Jazeera telling half the story and making bad situations worse. However I can lay that blame on alot of news organizations in the west.

I would say at this moment in time it is Islam for sheer numbers. There is alot of misconception within the Islamic communities in Islamic nations about the world outside themselves. I am a Muslim myself and know this is a problem. It does not help they get a daily dose of Al Jazeera telling half the story and making bad situations worse. However I can lay that blame on alot of news organizations in the west.

Yeah. Al Jazeera gives you one side of the story, and western news gives you the other side.

As for Scientology, L. Ron Hubbard actually said he was joking on his death bed. Or so I've heard.

Myrthism. All these new posters don't even know who this mod was, and yet they worship him like a god. Half these people weren't even here when he was around!
Lol at irony. But if you knew who I was, you wouldn't think so.

As for Scientology, L. Ron Hubbard actually said he was joking on his death bed. Or so I've heard.

That sounds suspiciously like the "Darwin deathbed conversion" myth.

Here's the part where I get flamed out of existence:

Scientology is not that bad.

It is a goofy sci-fi cult, and obviously it's mostly for crazy people, but it's all for mostly rich crazy people. They've never killed anyone. Scientologists don't fly UFOs into trade centers. They just take money from rich people and spend it mostly on either their own operating costs or their nationally-acclaimed drug rehabilitation program for prison inmates. Yes, that's right, per dollar the Scientologsts do more for society than nearly any other crazy belief system.

Islam is different, especially conservative Middle Eastern Islam (which I would argue is a completely different religion from, say, Indonesian Islam), literally and proudly brainwashes children. Children are taught that Arabic is a sacred language and to chant the Koran, which is the sacred literal word of the one true immutable God, from around age three, by the millions.

When it is drummed into you from near-infancy that the metaphysics of suicide terrorism are completely reasonable, that is a bad thing.

Scientology has yet to suicide bomb a bus full of children or to shoot up an abortion clinic.

Scientology has been made into the common enemy of STUPID AND DANGEROUS religions like conservative Protestantism because it's easy, fun, and gives everyone a common slightly-less-stupid thing to go back to [Christianity]. No matter how stupid your beliefs about the Bible are, it's always ok to say "what, you think I'm a Scientologist or something?" when I tell Christians that they are in a cult.

1. Baptists.
2. Atheists.

Baptists are first because there's more of them and they are better armed. Both seem drawn to me, and both love to mock my beliefs in public.

Specifically, how many of their followers (What percentage) strikes you as more brainwashed types then normal followers?

I'm leaning towards Scientologists. Since we only have 10 options, I excluded religions with very few radicals, creeps, terrorists, or beliefs that creep people out.

Scientologists, of course, and atheists.
Atheists are so arrogant that it's unbelievable; rather annoyingly, my best friend is one.
I'm an agnostic myself, and I enjoy philosophy, so it's difficult to get along with him at times. Atheists tend to dislike agnostics and philosophy.

Ilaer

Here's the part where I get flamed out of existence:

Scientology is not that bad.

It is a goofy sci-fi cult, and obviously it's mostly for crazy people, but it's all for mostly rich crazy people. They've never killed anyone. Scientologists don't fly UFOs into trade centers. They just take money from rich people and spend it mostly on either their own operating costs or their nationally-acclaimed drug rehabilitation program for prison inmates. Yes, that's right, per dollar the Scientologsts do more for society than nearly any other crazy belief system.

Islam is different, especially conservative Middle Eastern Islam (which I would argue is a completely different religion from, say, Indonesian Islam), literally and proudly brainwashes children. Children are taught that Arabic is a sacred language and to chant the Koran, which is the sacred literal word of the one true immutable God, from around age three, by the millions.

When it is drummed into you from near-infancy that the metaphysics of suicide terrorism are completely reasonable, that is a bad thing.

Scientology has yet to suicide bomb a bus full of children or to shoot up an abortion clinic.

Scientology has been made into the common enemy of STUPID AND DANGEROUS religions like conservative Protestantism because it's easy, fun, and gives everyone a common slightly-less-stupid thing to go back to [Christianity]. No matter how stupid your beliefs about the Bible are, it's always ok to say "what, you think I'm a Scientologist or something?" when I tell Christians that they are in a cult.

Since when has any religion flew a UFO into a trade center?

Ilaer

That sounds suspiciously like the "Darwin deathbed conversion" myth.

Yeah, I thought so too. But in this case it seems more believable.

I still consider Scientology the greatest hoax of the XX century. After all, Ron Hubbard was a fiction writer before, and he basically put together his fiction and added "It's true!" on the cover.

It looks very, very much like a hoax religion to see how gullible people are and show they can believe absolutely any nonsense... while they turned out even more gullible.

Here's the part where I get flamed out of existence:

Scientology is not that bad.

It is a goofy sci-fi cult, and obviously it's mostly for crazy people, but it's all for mostly rich crazy people. They've never killed anyone. Scientologists don't fly UFOs into trade centers. They just take money from rich people and spend it mostly on either their own operating costs or their nationally-acclaimed drug rehabilitation program for prison inmates. Yes, that's right, per dollar the Scientologsts do more for society than nearly any other crazy belief system.


http://www.lisamcpherson.org/
http://www.lisamcpherson.org/death_of_lisa.htm
Remember Lisa Mcpherson.

At some point, some one told a whole bunch of atheists that they were real smart people, and, therefore, they understood Christian theology better than Aquinas, had read the Misnah in more depth than Maimonides and were slimmer than the Buddha. He then went on to state that, it was their duty to spread their highly original and not at all pretentious arguments through every medium within reach.
This idea spread (as all terrible ideas do) and has since led to the creation of more YouTube videos, forum arguments and blog postings than their are stars in the sky or grains of sand on the beach.

mormons or scientologists.

scientology, although sometimes its more blackmail than brainwashing.

any sect that can more properly be called a cult. ones where they isolate you from your family, underfeed you, overwork you, and leave you in a state where you cant possibly think rationally.

It looks very, very much like a hoax religion to see how gullible people are and show they can believe absolutely any nonsense... while they turned out even more gullible.

Hmmmm.....Its really tempting you know, start up a cult, get the rich and stupid to give me their money....then leave them with an egg on their faces. A tax on stupidity.

The cult of NS maybe?

any sect that can more properly be called a cult. ones where they isolate you from your family, underfeed you, overwork you, and leave you in a state where you cant possibly think rationally.

Opus Dei is even worse. It actually forces it's employees (As in, janitors and stuff.) to "donate" their paycheck to Opus Dei, and have forced employees to miss events such as the marriage of a sister to work. Opus Dei is FUBAB. (Like FUBAR, but the last word is "Belief" instead of "Repair".)

http://www.lisamcpherson.org/
http://www.lisamcpherson.org/death_of_lisa.htm
Remember Lisa Mcpherson.

To lazy to read. Summarize?

Opus Dei is even worse. It actually forces it's employees (As in, janitors and stuff.) to "donate" their paycheck to Opus Dei, and have forced employees to miss events such as the marriage of a sister to work. Opus Dei is FUBAB. (Like FUBAR, but the last word is "Belief" instead of "Repair".)



To lazy to read. Summarize?

i know nothing about opus dei but that kind of thing is par for the course in any cult.

To lazy to read. Summarize?
The Church of Scientology murdered a defector, I believe.

i know nothing about opus dei but that kind of thing is par for the course in any cult.

Opus Dei isn't exactly a cult. It's part of the Catholic Church, and it's founder is, I believe, a saint. Opus Dei, as most people first heard about it, were partially the villians in the Da Vinci Code.

Myrthists definitely. DOWN WITH MYRTH!

This forum requires that you wait 30 seconds between posts. Please try again in 1 seconds.

Scientology. Anyone who claims Tom Cruise is the messiah has lost all credibility.
Yeah. Scientology also beleives a mother should be completely silent during childbirth, screams might "disturb" the child:rolleyes: .

scientology, although sometimes its more blackmail than brainwashing.

any sect that can more properly be called a cult. ones where they isolate you from your family, underfeed you, overwork you, and leave you in a state where you cant possibly think rationally.

Seconded. I lump Opus Dei in with this.

DOWN WITH MYRTH!
:eek:
No!
Myrth is the benevolent savio[u]r!
Possibly the second coming! Well not the second coming but....

Specifically, how many of their followers (What percentage) strikes you as more brainwashed types then normal followers?

I'm leaning towards Scientologists. Since we only have 10 options, I excluded religions with very few radicals, creeps, terrorists, or beliefs that creep people out.

You should have made it a multiple option poll.

And secondly this is evidence of intellectual wars between cults and beleifs.

Scientology's up there, but the numbers are dwindling, for all the hype.

So I suppose Islam, though it's really not Islam per se, but rather a combination of Islam and Islamic governments filtering access to outside media, spinning basically every unfortunate world event as an act of either Mossad or the CIA, encouraging hate and paranoia. Those generally lead to closemindedness and intolerance.

So, in practice, Islam, while Scientology wins for creepiness and secrecy. Islam is well-known and open-access.. I can convert tomorrow should I choose, tour a Mosque, meet everyday Muslims, etc.. The local Imam doesn't claim to be God incarnate or capable of speaking to aliens.. but as a world religion, Islam is probably the winner in cultivating those characteristics associated with "brainwashing."

From what I know.. Jehova witnesses and scientology. I've heard people compare mormans to jw's.. but I really don't know much about them.

Which religion/lack of religion seems most brainwashed?

Whichever one happens to be trying to convert me at the moment. :)

From what I know.. Jehova witnesses and scientology. I've heard people compare mormans to jw's.. but I really don't know much about them.

They both go door-to-door, but JWs aren't Mormons. They were an apocalyptic death cult of the 19th century (JWs) who were just a tad off on the date the world would end.. it was supposed to be 1870-something, but that date's been stepped up a few dozen times now.

As a percentage--Anyone that doesn't objectively look at all of the religions of the world and compare and contrast to their own beliefs.

By looking at other religions, I don't mean to just look at what your own religion thinks about other religions. Actually read the literature of the other religion and talk with their believers.

http://www.lisamcpherson.org/
http://www.lisamcpherson.org/death_of_lisa.htm
Remember Lisa Mcpherson.



Looks like I was wrong.

Islam still has my vote.

Scientologists, Atheists, and Wiccans.

Scientology.

Atheism. The art of thinking you're clever, and then closing your mind to other possibilities.

Atheism - closing your mind to the fact that it requires as much faith to believe that God doesn't exist as it does to believe he does exist.

Atheism - closing your mind to the fact that it requires as much faith to believe that God doesn't exist as it does to believe he does exist.

Really?

So does it require faith to beleive that I'm not God, too?

What I want to know is why wasn't there an all of the above button?

Really?

So does it require faith to beleive that I'm not God, too?

Belief requires faith, it exists even when facts don't.

Probably Islamic fundamentalism. I'd say Christian fundamentalism, but none of them (well, except a few whackjobs) have the same kind of hatred and violence that taints Islamic fundamentalism. That stuff is so brutal that it easily takes the cake.

Belief requires faith

I believe that I am currently looking at a computer.

That belief is not based upon faith.

I believe that I am currently looking at a computer.

That belief is not based upon faith.

I believe you are attempting sophistry.

Belief requires faith, it exists even when facts don't.

But there are different kinds of belief, and not all kinds of faith are the same.

I believe you are attempting sophistry.

And that, indeed, is a belief without reference to facts. ;)

Specifically, how many of their followers (What percentage) strikes you as more brainwashed types then normal followers?

I'm leaning towards Scientologists. Since we only have 10 options, I excluded religions with very few radicals, creeps, terrorists, or beliefs that creep people out.

Which religious group is NOT brainwashed?

I believe that I am currently looking at a computer.

That belief is not based upon faith.Such as faith in your senses?

Right-wing Protestant Christians.

I don't even consider Scientology a religion, but they are masters of brainwashing.

cameroi classifys the mainstream of western monotheism, the sequence judaism-christianity-islam as a single religeon revealed in successive 'chapters'.

and in our view it is this amalgam that "wins" the top "prise" in question.

(judaism, being the earliest recognized one of these, is also the most innocent and even not without some merit. it is the downright militant chauvanism of the latter two that is at least partially at the root of humanity's collectively suicidal insanity. of course the arbitrary assumption that nontangable beings don't or cannot exist is equally baseless. only the contention that no system of organized belief can be rationally shown to have the slightest idea what it is talking about, while nontangable beings themselves may or may not exist as THEY see fit, makes a great deal of sense of any of them)

=^^=
.../\...

Scientology, of course.

Scientology, of course.

why? i'll grant that it's silly and neither science nor religeon, but MORE brainwashed then right wing christerims? we truely fail to see how.

=^^=
.../\...

why? i'll grant that it's silly and neither science nor religeon, but MORE brainwashed then right wing christerims? we truely fail to see how.

=^^=
.../\...

Most right wing christians are born into their religion, most scientologists are converts. It takes a lot more brainwashing to get someone to convert than it does to tell a child that they're a [whatever flavour of christianity].

Most right wing christians are born into their religion, most scientologists are converts. It takes a lot more brainwashing to get someone to convert than it does to tell a child that they're a [whatever flavour of christianity].

i can see where that makes a certain amount of sense. but doesn't that just mean that it's their parents that are doing most of the brainwashing work?
(and thus creating an earlier and deeper groove in thier cranium against rational objectivity?)

=^^=
.../\...

Mormons. They believe in living prophets and a bunch of other crap. The dude finds golden tablets, translates them, then they disappear? How convenient. Scary people. Stay away from my front door at six in the morning.

I wanted to answer this poll at first.
Then I realized only a brain washed asshole would do that.

All of them seem the most, or rather none of them, pick for yourself which it is I mean. Half empty or half full.

I wasnt going to vote for my own religious persuasion...that be admitting I was brainwashed or just some blind follower...and much like me most will pick the group that seems most foreign to their own personal sensibilities.

This forum is mostly Athiests, Agnostics, and Christians...so you tell me where the bias on the list will be ...look and see if anything is just plain missing form the list.

No, this question is about as loaded as it can be.

Because simply put, the Brainwashed and Indotrinated love to point the finger at the other. WHo ever the other may be.

I will pass on this poll.

Opus Dei is even worse. It actually forces it's employees (As in, janitors and stuff.) to "donate" their paycheck to Opus Dei, and have forced employees to miss events such as the marriage of a sister to work. Opus Dei is FUBAB. (Like FUBAR, but the last word is "Belief" instead of "Repair".)


Unlike most "cults", Opus Dei actively discourages people from joining the group, and only allows those truly committed to join after years of study. They don't take any random bloke that says "Hey, this sounds good to me!", and they disclose everything that a person must do in order to become a member. It takes several years to join Opus Dei, and they go to great lengths to allow people to choose whether or not to join. Not saying it's a perfect sect, but it's hardly as bad as others.

i can see where that makes a certain amount of sense. but doesn't that just mean that it's their parents that are doing most of the brainwashing work?
(and thus creating an earlier and deeper groove in thier cranium against rational objectivity?)

=^^=
.../\...

Yes, and scientology out brainwashes them.

This forum is mostly Athiests, Agnostics, and Christians...so you tell me where the bias on the list will be ...look and see if anything is just plain missing form the list.

No, this question is about as loaded as it can be.
The agnostic position is by nature a skeptical, nonassociative one. "Agnostics" do not form clubs, nor do they have mission statements, structured beliefs or ideals or have any sort of formal community. Their series of beliefs arises from a position of critical analysis of the ideas of others. While it is not my position, to be an agnostic is not something that can arise from being "brainwashed". It does not make sense to include such a stance on this poll.

Well, to be honest I consider Agnostic to be the only that indeed is not a religion. Agnostics are open to any answer...they simply want a fecking ham sandwhich, not an explanation of the ham sandwhich.

So I wasnt implying that Agnostic was missing for the list...I didnt read the list.

I am saying that the poll is completely biased and bullshit.

Truthfully, there is no difference between any of those groups besides the doctrine of the faith they have choosen. So that means that which ever of those you are, is the onle you will not pick, the one that is farthest from you is the one you will pick. Typically. I am not supportive of fear mongering or of the concept of the "Savages" I am a believer in the different culture idea.

Christianity. No Contest.

Moonies - are they still going?

I think it might be useful to inject a definition for the term "brainwashing" here because I'm pretty sure everybody has a slightly different take on it.

Brainwashing is a long and deliberate process of conditioning someone to stop thinking for themselves and start to trust the leader/group. Teaching your kids to believe what you do isn't necessarily brainwashing because when someone is brainwashed, it's NOT done for their benefit. It's done so that they can be manipulated and used.

Often atheists look at anyone who was raised in a religious environment and label them as brainwashed because of their faith. A religious person could as easily accuse the atheist of being brainwashed because they adhere to their own belief of the non-existence of God for the same reasons. Neither would be correct because generally in both cases they were brought up to believe what they do as a result of a genuine desire by their parents to teach them what was right and true, whatever that may be.

Cults rely on brainwashing so that they can manipulate and use their members for the benefit and profit of those at the top. One could argue Scientology does this. I can't say one way or the other because I honestly don't feel I know enough about it to comment. I voted Right-Wing Protestants because in my mind's eye I see groups like one my sister got into where they used the Bible and Jesus as tools toward the end of brainwashing their individual members.

Cult members commonly use Christian terms and themes to recruit new members because they can introduce the group and its members as being simply a "Bible Study" group which is perfectly innocuous, but by the time the new recruit learns the true nature of the group, it's too late to escape. This is a big problem especially in Universities where they prey upon students who may be alone and away from h ome for the first time, and would be without the support of friends and family who might otherwise prevent the victim from being assimilated into the group.

So when you say "brainwashing" make sure you know what you mean by it, and how others will interpret it.

Mormons. They believe in living prophets and a bunch of other crap. The dude finds golden tablets, translates them, then they disappear? How convenient. Scary people. Stay away from my front door at six in the morning.

And what do YOU believe that's so far superior?

And what do YOU believe that's so far superior?pretty much everything else is superior to THAT.

Atheism - closing your mind to the fact that it requires as much faith to believe that God doesn't exist as it does to believe he does exist.

do you feel that you are exerting faith in your denial of the greek, norse and hindu gods?

personally i find it no faith at all.

pretty much everything else is superior to THAT.

If you say so

do you feel that you are exerting faith in your denial of the greek, norse and hindu gods?

personally i find it no faith at all.

The faith lies in your own belief of being correct.
Agnostics are the only ones who are faithless.
Having a belief without proof is based in faith.
If you have faith that something is not there then your faith is certainly not in that thing, it is faith in the absence of that thing.

Because you have placed faith in another position.
Simply because it makes you uncomfortable to call it faith that there is no Odin or Zeus does not make it not a faith based concept...it certainly isnt fact based.

There is no evidence against Odin. Would you support an Athiest mocking someone who was an Odinist? Because you both KNOW the Odinist is wrong?

Because the last time I checked no Christian, no Jew, No Odinist and no Athiest had anything but their opinion and the weight of generations of hyperbole to back up their completely unsupported opinion...unsupported by anything except faith.

and for the record I make that statement as a person of faith. I just happen to know what that means. It means i have Faith I am right...anything else is just ether.

pretty much everything else is superior to THAT.

Absolutely.
Since you answered essentially nothing, I must concur.
Nothing is superior.

Such as faith in your senses?

It might be reasonable to say that "I believe that I am looking at a computer that actually exists beyond my perception of it" is in fact based on faith in my senses (though this would be a very different kind of faith.)

The fact that I am actually looking at an image of my computer is not based on faith.

I wish the poll broke up Islam the same way it breaks Christianity into three categories ranging from most fundamentalist conservative to liberal. I'd say the really conservative Muslims are most brainwashed. Or at least tied with the really conservative Christians for the title of most brainwashed. I finally voted Islam because you've got to be pretty damn brainwashed to strap a bomb to your ass and blow up a crowd of civilians and think that's a free ride to paradise.

The faith lies in your own belief of being correct.
Agnostics are the only ones who are faithless.
Having a belief without proof is based in faith.
If you have faith that something is not there then your faith is certainly not in that thing, it is faith in the absence of that thing.

Because you have placed faith in another position.
Simply because it makes you uncomfortable to call it faith that there is no Odin or Zeus does not make it not a faith based concept...it certainly isnt fact based.

There is no evidence against Odin. Would you support an Athiest mocking someone who was an Odinist? Because you both KNOW the Odinist is wrong?

Because the last time I checked no Christian, no Jew, No Odinist and no Athiest had anything but their opinion and the weight of generations of hyperbole to back up their completely unsupported opinion...unsupported by anything except faith.

and for the record I make that statement as a person of faith. I just happen to know what that means. It means i have Faith I am right...anything else is just ether.


i dont think you know the mind of every atheist. to not think about god, to not even have god thoughts cross your mind, is also atheistic. it requires no faith whatsoever, just a lack of thinking about it.

to restate my position, atheism does not require any FAITH in the lack of a god. no more than not believing in ODIN requires a faith that he doesnt exist. god thoughts need not enter anyone's mind be they thoughts of jehova or of shiva.

i dont think you know the mind of every atheist. to not think about god, to not even have god thoughts cross your mind, is also atheistic. it requires no faith whatsoever, just a lack of thinking about it.

to restate my position, atheism does not require any FAITH in the lack of a god. no more than not believing in ODIN requires a faith that he doesnt exist. god thoughts need not enter anyone's mind be they thoughts of jehova or of shiva.

Indeed.

But this implicit lack of faith is eleminated the moment the idea is put to question.

Once the person makes the measurement, they have gauged the issue and choosen to
a. Have Faith that there is a Diety/higher power/ Other
b. Have faith there is not
c. Admit and accept a complete lack of knowldge on the issue, and have no opinion at all until further evidence presents itself.

One can not claim to have no thoughts of it if they are in the middle of a discussion about it. I do not claim to know your thoughts I dont need to, you are thinking about God because we are talking about God.

Same with Odin, Unicorns, and hovering pasta creatures.
The moment you are aware of somethings potetial and you make a determination based on no information at all beyond your own feeling you have acted on faith, and as long as you hold that determination you continue to act on faith.

The only way it is a natural state of being for you with the need for you consider it would be if it had never been presented. You do indeed have faith, I dont care to hazard a guess as to what it is in, but your presence in this dicussion eliminates you from the small pool of people in the history of the earth who have never had to make a choice on the matter.

Indeed.

But this implicit lack of faith is eleminated the moment the idea is put to question.

Once the person makes the measurement, they have gauged the issue and choosen to
a. Have Faith that there is a Diety/higher power/ Other
b. Have faith there is not
c. Admit and accept a complete lack of knowldge on the issue, and have no opinion at all until further evidence presents itself.

One can not claim to have no thoughts of it if they are in the middle of a discussion about it. I do not claim to know your thoughts I dont need to, you are thinking about God because we are talking about God.

Same with Odin, Unicorns, and hovering pasta creatures.
The moment you are aware of somethings potetial and you make a determination based on no information at all beyond your own feeling you have acted on faith, and as long as you hold that determination you continue to act on faith.

The only way it is a natural state of being for you with the need for you consider it would be if it had never been presented. You do indeed have faith, I dont care to hazard a guess as to what it is in, but your presence in this dicussion eliminates you from the small pool of people in the history of the earth who have never had to make a choice on the matter.

i think not. when someone poses an absurd (to you) suggestion of some non verifiable being or event its quite possible to dismiss it out of hand. no faith required of any kind.

do YOU (as in you) feel that it requires faith on your part to reject the hindu gods? (supposing youre not a hindu, if so, pick another religion as an example)

it MAY be that if one is raised in a religion then it requires some thought process that can be called "faith" to reject it. i would not call it that but i can see where someone else might.

I'm mildly surprised Jehova's witnesses aren't on the list. Those are general whackos if I ever saw any. I'm put em on par with scientologists on the brainwashing scale, maybe even beyond them.

If you say soOh come on, everybody with at least half a brain knows that Joseph Smith just pulled the whole ancient-text-translation-thing out of his butt. Just like James Jesse Strang after him.

i think not. when someone poses an absurd (to you) suggestion of some non verifiable being or event its quite possible to dismiss it out of hand. no faith required of any kind.

do YOU (as in you) feel that it requires faith on your part to reject the hindu gods? (supposing youre not a hindu, if so, pick another religion as an example)

it MAY be that if one is raised in a religion then it requires some thought process that can be called "faith" to reject it. i would not call it that but i can see where someone else might.

My faith in my own position eliminates the need for faith in a lack of some deity.

But it is indeed faith in my position. I have no proof, no evidence, and no evidence is simply that. No evidence.

Faith requires no effort.

However you seem fairly bothered by this line of logic, so I concede.

You are absolutely faithless and all your beliefs are based on empirical evidence and those that are not...are based on something of equal value...just not faith.

Oh come on, everybody with half a brain knows that Joseph Smith just pulled the whole ancient-text-translation-thing out of his butt. Just like James Jesse Strang after him.

Wow,
I have to admit I started laughing when I read this, and it is HARD for me to say this, but I dont KNOW Joseph Smith wasnt a prophet who ...yeah.

I do have a strong belief he was full of shit though.

Oh come on, everybody with half a brain knows that Joseph Smith just pulled the whole ancient-text-translation-thing out of his butt. Just like James Jesse Strang after him.

If it wouldn't hijack this thread I'd say let's see some of what must be a vast repository of knowledge on the subject. As it stands, I invite you to TG me with it.

But I suspect you're probably parroting something you heard somewhere else, and won't.

Personally, I do not agree with your statement about the origin of the texts but then, I don't have half a barin, I have a whole one. ;)

Wow,
I have to admit I started laughing when I read this, and it is HARD for me to say this, but I dont KNOW Joseph Smith wasnt a prophet who ...yeah.

I do have a strong belief he was full of shit though.

I think that by saying that you have honestly captured the spirit of what some other posters are trying to express with respect to faith vs. knowledge vs. opinion. Well done.

...even if our opinions on that last part differ diametrically :)

If it wouldn't hijack this thread I'd say let's see some of what must be a vast repository of knowledge on the subject. As it stands, I invite you to TG me with it.

But I suspect you're probably parroting something you heard somewhere else, and won't.

Personally, I do not agree with your statement about the origin of the texts but then, I don't have half a barin, I have a whole one. ;)You know, every time a Mormon addresses me on the street, I kindly ask him to give me that original text so I can try a translation myself. And guess what...
So will you send me the original text?

Well as far as I'm aware, right wing protestant christianity does not use hypnosis like other religions *cough* scientology *cough* so I am suprised that so many people chose right wing protestantism.

Well as far as I'm aware, right wing protestant christianity does not use hypnosis like other religions *cough* scientology *cough* so I am suprised that so many people chose right wing protestantism.so hypnosis is the only bad thing you can think of?

so hypnosis is the only bad thing you can think of?Didn't they starve some chick to death in a hotel room a few years ago? Or am I imagining things again...

Didn't they starve some chick to death in a hotel room a few years ago? Or am I imagining things again...who?

and why do you speak of yourself as 'they' ? :p

Oh come on, everybody with half a brain knows that Joseph Smith just pulled the whole ancient-text-translation-thing out of his butt. Just like James Jesse Strang after him.

Everybody with half a brain? Really? A half a brain? I have a whole brain, and I only think he may have pulled it out of his ass. So apparently I must have half my brain removed in order to know it.

For the record, as I've stated in other threads, I'm somewhat versed in the Mormon faith and it's dogma/scripture, so if anybody wants a real perspective on it's beliefs, I'd be more than willing to give the low-down.

Very rarely do you see reliable information from reliable sources about the Mormon faith, and the several renditions of it posted in this thread seem to emanate from a common source . . . "Dum Dum Dum Dum Dumb." Sound familiar?

As for the actual topic at hand, I voted "Yes, please" because I feel that several deserved the most brainwashed title, but in sub-categories. Most Brainwashed Against Civil Rights - Islam. Most Brainwashed To Indoctrinate Absurd Beliefs and For Donating Money - Scientology. Most Brainwashed To Indoctrinate Strange Beliefs - Mormonism.

To lazy to read. Summarize?
Scientologists basicly trapped a former member at one of their 'hotels' and staved her to death.

Everybody with half a brain? Really? A half a brain? I have a whole brain, and I only think he may have pulled it out of his ass. So apparently I must have half my brain removed in order to know it.

For the record, as I've stated in other threads, I'm somewhat versed in the Mormon faith and it's dogma/scripture, so if anybody wants a real perspective on it's beliefs, I'd be more than willing to give the low-down.

Very rarely do you see reliable information from reliable sources about the Mormon faith, and the several renditions of it posted in this thread seem to emanate from a common source . . . "Dum Dum Dum Dum Dumb." Sound familiar?

As for the actual topic at hand, I voted "Yes, please" because I feel that several deserved the most brainwashed title, but in sub-categories. Most Brainwashed Against Civil Rights - Islam. Most Brainwashed To Indoctrinate Absurd Beliefs and For Donating Money - Scientology. Most Brainwashed To Indoctrinate Strange Beliefs - Mormonism.

So will you send me the original text, so I can do my own translation? Just send me the golden plates.

Atheism isn't brainwashing. Brainwashing requires an external force to convince you of an idea. All of the atheists I've known have become atheists due to a personal rejection of religion.

You can not like atheists. Most of us are arrogant assholes. Just remember that we got that way on our own.

So will you send me the original text, so I can do my own translation? Just send me the golden plates.

Now how do you propose I give them to you? Pull them out of my ass? In all probability there weren't any golden plates, but that isn't the point of your little tirade, now, is it? It's to belittle or demean a faith that you actually know little about.

so hypnosis is the only bad thing you can think of?

Oh I can think of many bad things, but hypnosis is the most intensive way of brain washnig people and doesn't exist in right wing protestantism.

Specifically, how many of their followers (What percentage) strikes you as more brainwashed types then normal followers?

I'm leaning towards Scientologists. Since we only have 10 options, I excluded religions with very few radicals, creeps, terrorists, or beliefs that creep people out.

What happened to all of the above?

Oh I can think of many bad things, but hypnosis is the most intensive way of brain washnig people and doesn't exist in right wing protestantism.

I don't agree. My teacher did hypnosis as a hobby, and explained a lot about it.
It's not a YES/NO story. It's gradual.
In fact, any sales talk you hold can be used to brainwash.
It's a rather simple technique you can learn.

Any preacher knows how to do that.

And if you're talking about right wing protestants, they believe what they are supposed to believe. All you need to do is use that to sell your product.
If you want a war, come up with a story from the Old Testament, If you want peace, talk about Jesus handing out fish and bread on a mountain to thousands of people from one basket.

BTW is that the origin of "basket economy"? ;)

Scientologists, of course, and atheists.
Atheists are so arrogant that it's unbelievable; rather annoyingly, my best friend is one.
I'm an agnostic myself, and I enjoy philosophy, so it's difficult to get along with him at times. Atheists tend to dislike agnostics and philosophy.

Ilaer
What the hell are you talking about?

Often atheists look at anyone who was raised in a religious environment and label them as brainwashed because of their faith. A religious person could as easily accuse the atheist of being brainwashed because they adhere to their own belief of the non-existence of God for the same reasons.
Most atheists arrive that there conclusions without outside help, which invalidates any 'brainwashing'

It's not really a belief, it's a conclusion.

I've chosen Islam considering it is currently the only one being currently used to advocate suicide bombing, but all religions are capable of the same kind of atrocities.

It's not really a belief, it's a conclusion.QFT

Most atheists arrive that there conclusions without outside help, which invalidates any 'brainwashing'

It's not really a belief, it's a conclusion.

"Okay,... then stop forcing your conclusions down my throat please, let me found God (or not) in my own way," cried the believer.

"Okay,... then stop forcing your conclusions down my throat please, let me found God (or not) in my own way," cried the believer."we are just helping you along" replied the saved one.

This is an absurd question. Religious belief is irrational. I'm making a distinction between theism and deism, of course. It is based upon faith, the concept that you can make vast assumptions etc. etc. Atheists are surely not at all 'brain-washed', as atheism is based upon an empirical and rational analysis of the world. It is the presumption that something does -not- exist without proof, rather than that it does.

This is a pointless poll. Each and every religious individual is ‘brain-washed’ to an extent; each major –organised- religion guilty as charged. That is the very nature of these institutions.

"we are just helping you along" replied the saved one.

Y'know,... similar things have been said by people who ask others to join MLMs (oooh, brainwashy clean). Yeah, some religious movements tends to "help" others in forming their "own conclusions" as well with the pretense of "helping".

Y'know,... similar things have been said by people who ask others to join MLMs (oooh, brainwashy clean). Yeah, some religious movements tends to "help" others in forming their "own conclusions" as well with the pretense of "helping".Just try to rebuild your world view from scratch without letting any particular religion influence you, and see where you will end up.

Just try to rebuild your world view from scratch without letting any particular religion influence you, and see where you will end up.

I'm going to take a wild guess and say that trying to build one's worldview from a de facto rejection of religion might just lead one to reject religion.

Rather like how trying to build one's worldview from within a particular religion is probably going to lead one to adhere to that religion.

I'm going to take a wild guess and say that trying to build one's worldview from a de facto rejection of religion might just lead one to reject religion.

Rather like how trying to build one's worldview from within a particular religion is probably going to lead one to adhere to that religion.What are you talking about?

Scientology seems to be the most brainwashed. Sure, Islam has the whole World Trade Center incident, not to mention legions of suicide bombers who hate everyone and everything not like them, especially muslims of a rival Islamic faction and Christianity has the whole Middle Ages thing with all the burnings and religious wars and such, but Scientologists seem to be more crazed and brainwashed. After all, there are millions of muslims who would rather help you when you need help than blow you and your entire family up and there are millions of Christians voluteering to feed the hungry and save the dying. Scientology has this huge ass coincidence going on. It's written like a bad sci-fi book AND its founder is a bad sci-fi writer. Is there a connection?

About belief. Religion is a belief despite lack of evidence. Atheism is belief BECAUSE of lack of evidence. Lack of proof does not make something false. After all, there might not be proof that God exists, but there is also no proof that he might not. Atheists might arrive to their conclusion, but so do many religious people. After all, I arrived to the conclusion that Christianity is plausible and that the bible you have might have some bad translations. After all, mine is English and the original bible was written in Hebrew. When evidence for either is lacking, it requires as much faith to believe that something exists as it does that something might not.

Scientologists, of course ... with Islam running a close second

Why does Scientology have a cross as its symbol?

Just try to rebuild your world view from scratch without letting any particular religion influence you, and see where you will end up.

Dunno, maybe paganism, or some sort of animistic religion... I just can't see myself without some greater being to blame/cherish.

Dunno, maybe paganism, or some sort of animistic religion... I just can't see myself without some greater being to blame/cherish.Why?

Having been brought up a fervent Catholic (for about 18 years) in a devout Catholic background, atheism was the by far, the best decision I've ever made in terms of personal beliefs and morals.

Pastafarians.

I'm not getting how atheists are brainwashed.

Do they make atheists by sleep-depriving people, then showing them images of crucifixes while simultaneously punching them in the face?

I don't think the people who voted for atheists had any reasoning beyond atheism=bad; brainwashing=bad; therefore atheists=brainwashed. Pathetic.

Unlike most "cults", Opus Dei actively discourages people from joining the group, and only allows those truly committed to join after years of study. They don't take any random bloke that says "Hey, this sounds good to me!", and they disclose everything that a person must do in order to become a member. It takes several years to join Opus Dei, and they go to great lengths to allow people to choose whether or not to join. Not saying it's a perfect sect, but it's hardly as bad as others.

Did you miss they were doing this to an EMPLOYEE, not a member?

Why?

Dunno. Wired that way? Too much questions that needed short answers? Realization that an entire lifetime isn't enough to solve all mysteries?

I really haven't reached the atheist' nor the believer's conclusions, maybe I lack faith in either conclusions, so in the mean time I try to believe there's some greater being with some great masterplan, though I might not like what said being's plan is.

Stuff like that.

"When evidence for either is lacking, it requires as much faith to believe that something exists as it does that something might not."

Not at all. Consider the typical 'fairy' argument:

There is no proof that fairies exist. There is no proof that they do not. Therefore, we do -not- believe in fairies.

It is not -faith-, it is logic.

"When evidence for either is lacking, it requires as much faith to believe that something exists as it does that something might not."

Not at all. Consider the typical 'fairy' argument:

There is no proof that fairies exist. There is no proof that they do not. Therefore, we do -not- believe in fairies.

It is not -faith-, it is logic.or caution.

It's the question of properly positioning the burden of proof. Replace fairies with WMD's for example and think of all the trouble the western world could have been spared if only...

It’s really a matter of human behavior more than religious foundations.

Religions only breed hate, intolerance, or ill-objectivist thinking through human interpretation of its teachings, and strict dogmatic belief structures.

“Brainwashing” Can occur in any religion, spiritual cult, or logical belief structure, and can be exacted by any group upon anyone. Its icon can be Mohammed, Jesus, Lord Xenu, or Barney the dinosaur for all it matters.

Any one of those groups are capable of oppression, and brainwashing, just as much as the other including Atheism, or Agnostic belief.

All one would need is to enforce the idea upon whomever (small groups of people, entire nations, socio-cultural interaction) that only their own belief is true and all others are considered blasphemy, and thus “evil” or “corrupt” or “illogical”.

In modern times however if anything, all of these religions/lack there of are guilty of hate, intolerance, slander, and corruption as any other group, some more so then others, or all equal to in some shape or form.

Religion in general is a philosophy that teaches in someway we are connected spiritually through a divine being, or beings way of nature, simple human likeness and/or God. It is when one group declares themselves supreme, and superior to all others when they have become “brainwashed”, which is not a bi-product of the belief structure, merely man’s interpretation.

Atheism is a much simpler form of belief as it teaches that our environment is not devoid of morality due to a lack of any divine patronage (that would be nihilism) but rather that we are simply the result of science in action, natural law, and the balance of our environment, and not a divine force.

Both schools of thought have reason and logic, as well as a promise of peace and logical acceptance, but they also have been abused in some shape or form, and have gained poor images, and names thusly.

The truth to the corrupt natures of men is not the lack of religion, or the establishment of it, but merely that of corrupt men corrupting the ideals.

“I’m open to everyone’s closed-mindedness”….which essentially makes me close minded for thinking everyone else is closed minded.

An entire religion also cannot be condemned for the corruption of a few (Terrorists, Zealots, or Radicals) out of the many, and although one religion’s beliefs may seem strange, or out of the ordinary (like Scientology or Mormonism) as long as the general belief structure does not support the endangerment of its own people or the open harm of others (Fundamentalism or Radicalism).

One should remain accepting, or at least tolerant enough not to proclaim the other inferior of existence.

An entire religion also cannot be condemned for the corruption of a few (Terrorists, Zealots, or Radicals) out of the many, and although one religion’s beliefs may seem strange, or out of the ordinary (like Scientology or Mormonism) as long as the general belief structure does not support the endangerment of its own people or the open harm of others (Fundamentalism or Radicalism).

One should remain accepting, or at least tolerant enough not to proclaim the other inferior of existence.Spreading misinformation about the world is a form of doing open harm to others. And that's not just done by the 'corrupted few' of a religion, it's done by all believers.

Spreading misinformation about the world is a form of doing open harm to others. And that's not just done by the 'corrupted few' of a religion, it's done by all believers.

The problem is ... this "misinformation" isn't exact science. There's no way to say that the TRUTH[B] is either a fabrication of a mortal or divine.

Well, along the progress of time we can learn that not all TRUTHs are exactly correct (like the flat world). But then again what guarantee we have that it'll say otherwise about the existence of God?

Now, how do we separate which info is misleading or not? Spreading information or misinformation about believe is protected (by some) as free speech. People want to share something they thought that's right.

... well,... it's your choice wheter to listen or not. Which brings us back to the topic of brainwashing.

Do you believe that all adamant believers brainwashes their fellow man by exchanging words?

If so, how can you so say otherwise about the atheist who defends opinion on his will to power, is right?

By the way, I guess we need to narrow down as to what constitutes as brainwashing, though.

When was the last time a scientologist carried a bomb into a crowd of civilians at a market or resort and blew himself up so he could murder them all for god?

When was the last time a scientologist carried a bomb into a crowd of civilians at a market or resort and blew himself up so he could murder them all for god?

Never, but neither has a Jew, a Mormon, a Christian, an Atheist, Agnostic, nor has every Muslim done so.

One cannot single out an entire religion due to the actions of some. Or religion in general for that matter.

A person still has a right and they still have their freedom to believe in what they want as long as they do not physically or verbally harm/threaten anyone.

Religions believe teaching an absence of God or a god/gods harms the world, so whats the difference aside from how they believe it will effect the world.

Removing religion is merely removing one small part to a much larger puzzle.

I understand this seems illogical and plain stupid, but its not fair to remove a person's belief in/or lack of belief in god simply because it does not fit with one general idea.

What is so wrong with a person having a belief in God? Or not having one?Cannot a person be allowed to think for themselves and create their own opinion of the world based upon their own beliefs? A person, even within organized religion may think freely, a religion is an ideaology not a piece of technology that is inserted into ones mind. Free will is still in play, and a person my act subjectivley, and objectivley within the group. Its when the group decides to take this right away that the group has over-stepped moral boundaries.

Wether it be with organized religion or not, it dosent matter as long as they don't wish to harm anyone beyond discussing their beliefs. A person still has the right to object to this groups beliefs as long as nowhere in between this is a person forced to join, or killed because they denied the groups belief structure or visa versa.

A person still has a right and they still have their freedom to believe in what they want as long as they do not physically or verbally harm/threaten anyone.

Religions believe teaching an absence of God or a god/gods harms the world, so whats the difference aside from how they believe it will effect the world.

Removing religion is merely removing one small part to a much larger puzzle.

I understand this seems illogical and plain stupid, but its not fair to remove a person's belief in/or lack of belief in god simply because it does not fit with one general idea.

What is so wrong with a person having a belief in God? Or not having one?Cannot a person be allowed to think for themselves and create their own opinion of the world based upon their own beliefs? A person, even within organized religion may think freely, a religion is an ideaology not a piece of technology that is inserted into ones mind. Free will is still in play, and a person my act subjectivley, and objectivley within the group. Its when the group decides to take this right away that the group has over-stepped moral boundaries.

Wether it be with organized religion or not, it dosent matter as long as they don't wish to harm anyone beyond discussing their beliefs. A person still has the right to object to this groups beliefs as long as nowhere in between this is a person forced to join, or killed because they denied the groups belief structure or visa versa.

When was the last time a scientologist carried a bomb into a crowd of civilians at a market or resort and blew himself up so he could murder them all for god?Is that the only kind of harm you can think of?

Spreading misinformation about the world is a form of doing open harm to others. And that's not just done by the 'corrupted few' of a religion, it's done by all believers.

What, me spreading the word of my religion is burning you in some way? No. It isn't doing open harm because you don't have to listen to me. Simple as that.

what is a scientologist? :confused:

What, me spreading the word of my religion is burning you in some way? No. It isn't doing open harm because you don't have to listen to me. Simple as that.

It's a grey area. It is harm by proxy. It is indoctrinaire. You shouldn't be doing it in the first place.

It's a grey area. It is harm by proxy. It is indoctrinaire. You shouldn't be doing it in the first place.

OMGLULZGRAWL! Wat abut frae speach?

... (So maybe limiting free speech might reduce all of this brainwashing?)

OMGLULZGRAWL! Wat abut frae speach?

... (So maybe limiting free speech might reduce all of this brainwashing?)

Probably not.

I am insulted that the Jews have been left out of this poll. Genital mutilation, anyone?

I am insulted that the Jews have been left out of this poll. Genital mutilation, anyone?

A lot of religions do that...

I can't decide either between Southern Baptist or Scientology.

I am insulted that the Jews have been left out of this poll. Genital mutilation, anyone?

Aren't the Jews kinda like an exclusive club?

(Meaning they don't actively seek converts?)

Islam/Scientologists/Athiests... Hell, most of them seem the same really.

Aren't the Jews kinda like an exclusive club?

(Meaning they don't actively seek converts?)They are an ethoncentric* religion.

*(That's pc for racist)

I am insulted that the Jews have been left out of this poll. Genital mutilation, anyone?Why? Do you think they would reach into the upper ranks of the brainwashing list?

Islam/Scientologists/Athiests... Hell, most of them seem the same really.You surely are a right Christian, right?

You surely are a right Christian, right?
"Hell, most of them seem the same really."

NO, not Christian, not anything!

"Hell, most of them seem the same really."

NO, not Christian, not anything!How would those three seem the same to you then?

I think your poll is biased, because you separate the protestants in 3 categories, and you don't for the others... Leftish tolerant catholics like the Liberation Theology can in no way be compared to hard-core catholics like the Opus Dei, and inside Islam you've the same amount of shades than in the different branch of catholism, there are some very tolerant and open muslims (most of them), and some fanatic muslims (a few, but they make a lot of noise and destruction).

I think your poll is biased, because you separate the protestants in 3 categories, and you don't for the others... Leftish tolerant catholics like the Liberation Theology can in no way be compared to hard-core catholics like the Opus Dei, and inside Islam you've the same amount of shades than in the different branch of catholism, there are some very tolerant and open muslims (most of them), and some fanatic muslims (a few, but they make a lot of noise and destruction).What would your poll options be?

I'm afraid I'm going to have to be a Pope-basher, because Catholicism is by far the most brainwashed religion (from a secular standpoint)

For one, they have rules for everything. How to eat, how to have sex, when to eat, what not to eat, communion, etc. etc. etc. These rules are ABSOLUTE TRUTH. Any kind of radical idea that comes into conflict with these rules are heretical... which leads me to number 2...

They are ruled by one man that talks to God and therefore knows absolute truth. Now, not to bash the pope (being a Protestant), but there have been times the pope has been absolutely wrong. Take, for instance, how the pope treated Galileo after he presented his views on a non-geocentric universe. Then consider that Pope John Paul II finally apologized on the behalf of the Catholic Church for its actions... about 500-600 years later.

Finally, any kind of thought that is radical to the Catholic church is heretical. Therefore it can get your ass excommunicated. So why is it that forward thought is heretical? And why does it get you excommunicated from the faith?

1. Baptists. 2. Scientologists.

Mostly because I know a lot of people like that, so that's how the whole religion seems.

I'm afraid I'm going to have to be a Pope-basher, because Catholicism is by far the most brainwashed religion (from a secular standpoint)

For one, they have rules for everything. How to eat, how to have sex, when to eat, what not to eat, communion, etc. etc. etc. These rules are ABSOLUTE TRUTH. Any kind of radical idea that comes into conflict with these rules are heretical... which leads me to number 2...

They are ruled by one man that talks to God and therefore knows absolute truth. Now, not to bash the pope (being a Protestant), but there have been times the pope has been absolutely wrong. Take, for instance, how the pope treated Galileo after he presented his views on a non-geocentric universe. Then consider that Pope John Paul II finally apologized on the behalf of the Catholic Church for its actions... about 500-600 years later.

Finally, any kind of thought that is radical to the Catholic church is heretical. Therefore it can get your ass excommunicated. So why is it that forward thought is heretical? And why does it get you excommunicated from the faith?You obviously know nothing about Catholicism. And you seem to confuse its food and conduct laws with those of Judaism.

Scientologists, they are just wierd.

Mormons i picked, seriously they are dangerously insane.

You obviously know nothing about Catholicism. And you seem to confuse its food and conduct laws with those of Judaism.

Contention A) Not being allowed to use contraceptives.
Contention B) No meat on Good Friday.

And I'm sorry if I confused some laws with others, if I did, but the point is still the same.

Contention A) Not being allowed to use contraceptives.
Contention B) No meat on Good Friday.

And I'm sorry if I confused some laws with others, if I did, but the point is still the same.What's your point really? Bitching about superficial shit?

What's your point really? Bitching about superficial shit?

Err, no, my point is Catholicism is the most brainwashed religion of them all, in my opinion. I could go on and on about Scientology or Mormonism, but I chose Catholicism for its unreasonableness regarding forward thought, a very prominent symptom of religious brainwashing.

Err, no, my point is Catholicism is the most brainwashed religion of them all, in my opinion. I could go on and on about Scientology or Mormonism, but I chose Catholicism for its unreasonableness regarding forward thought, a very prominent symptom of religious brainwashing.http://www.mysmiley.net/imgs/smile/sign/sign0094.gif

I voted for those aleprechaunists, because it takes more faith to believe that leprechauns don't exist, than that they do. Those aleprechaunists are so arrogant in their lack of belief! They are basing their lack of belief on nothing more than faulty arguments about the refraction of light through rainbows, and so they deny that I even have a case! The nerve to disagree with ME! The arrogance!

I could understand if they were agonostileprechaunists. Those guys are cool, but they will never get that pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. I feel very sad for them. All you guys need to do is take one more step and believe, and then you can have that pot of gold. Just make that wager... what have you got to lose?

All religions are forms of brainwashing but the top three are definitely Christianity (all forms), Islam, and Scientology.

To get the religion debate out of the way, we could look at religions like a national issue:

A religious/non-religious sect/group could be 'judged' by how they look upon the non-beleivers:
A: Lost souls in need of help and salvation.
B: Infidels/heretics, that need to die. Now.
C: Fresh meat... money, here we come!
D: Ignorant fools, too stupid and under-evolved to realise the 'truth', and so below the level of us 'enlightened' men of science.
E: Urgh, how could you be so stupid to not believe like I do?
F: What's the problem? They don't bother me, so I won't bother them.
G: Push off, we don't like your type here!

Of course, you can't generalise with religion. 'Christians' as an entire group, (for example) could fill all of these categories.

But brainwashing has nothing to do with the actual religion itself, and whatever you might think of the said religion. I think brainwashing has more to do with whether a person believes a philosophy because they genuinely have faith it is true, or whether they accept it because it they have been told that it is true over and over and over, or otherwise 'trained' and conditioned to accept it without question.

It is much easier to 'brainwash' a person by telling them what they want to hear, so generally we only think about the more intensive, forceful forms of brainwashing at all. Keep in mind that Hitler brainwashed a whole country with nothing more than speeches, by telling them that they were the master race of the earth, and that everything bad in the world was 'somebody else's' (the Jews') fault. He gave them someone else to blame, and they lapped it up like Pavlov's dogs. Not all brainwashing is bright lights, weird movies watched with taped-open eyes, ice-water and electric prods. Just read Brave New World.

So basically, the question is, which religions have followers that act the way they do because they have been told repeatedly it is how they should act, and which have followers that act the way they do because they have come to the conclusion it is the right way? How brainwashed are you?

Easily scientology.

But I have to say something about brainwashing. Unless you have a really focused group of actions which are classified as brainwashing you run the risk of condemning pretty much anything as brainwashing.

Take for example United Beleriand's sig. Continually seeing the words THERE IS NO BIBLICAL GOD in big bold letters over and over and over and over and over and over...

*ahem* has a semi-hypnotic effect, constantly reinforcing the message it portrays. Some people might start believing it (if they don't already) simply because it sits there turning itself over in your brain.

Now should UB be hauled away for brainwashing unsuspecting theists (or at least Abrahamic theists)? Well that honestly depends on what one considers brainwashing now doesn't it?

Atheism. The art of thinking you're clever, and then closing your mind to other possibilities.

Funny how the exact same thing applies to everything else on the list.

mormons.
never lived in a state of scientologists, so my viewpoint might change if i did.

incidentally, i'm proud to see with all the "ZOMG teh MMOOSLEMS" attitudes, they're not that heavily voted. congrats NSG.

sweet, post count is 1111

You don't have to get 'hauled away' for making an simple statement. I agree, not everything is brainwashing. I'm talking about long-term exposure to a ceaselessly repeated influence (like hypnopaedia in Brave New World). I mean, a flashing sign won't influence you instantly, but if you stared at it non-stop for six months, it might begin to sink in...

But 'brainwashing' is a very strong term, it would only apply in the most extreme cases where the 'brainwashing' treatment has made the subject/victim accept whatever they are being told without a second thought, and this is harder to do with different things (it's harder to do this to a person if they don't like what they are being told, like I said.) Brainwashing sets out to control, not convince.

(And will the 'all religion is evil' atheistic jihadists give it a break? I guess if religion is so bad I should just tell the Red Cross to pack up their Christian values and stop doing all this evil :mad: (Religion causes wars and oppression, huh? Meet Hitler, Mao & Stalin, history's greatest atheists!))

(And will the 'all religion is evil' atheistic jihadists give it a break? I guess if religion is so bad I should just tell the Red Cross to pack up their Christian values and stop doing all this evil :mad: (Religion causes wars and oppression, huh? Meet Hitler, Mao & Stalin, history's greatest atheists!))

(The Crusades, Thirty Year's War, Spanish Inquisition, Portugese Inquisition, Wars of Religion, the Holocaust, 911, Iraq Civil War. Hitler was a religious person who publically promoted Christianity as a German virtue, and we all know the destructiveness of the Communist ideology.)

Moral values are not Christianity's alone, and religions have no right to monopolise them.

Well, unitarians aren't Christian, and I should know because I am one. There isn't a single cross in the entire church,. And the offer some really in-depth sex ed classes.

Well, unitarians aren't Christian, and I should know because I am one. There isn't a single cross in the entire church,. And the offer some really in-depth sex ed classes.

They go hand in hand....

Funny how the exact same thing applies to everything else on the list.

Because they have a faith, unlike Atheists. I voted Scientologists, Atheists, Muslims, Mormons, and then those Prods.

Err, no, my point is Catholicism is the most brainwashed religion of them all, in my opinion. I could go on and on about Scientology or Mormonism, but I chose Catholicism for its unreasonableness regarding forward thought, a very prominent symptom of religious brainwashing.

You, sir, are not living in the 21st century.

Because they have a faith, unlike Atheists. I voted Scientologists, Atheists, Muslims, Mormons, and then those Prods.

Atheists believe in the absence of god. Pretty much amounts to the same idea as your faith.

Atheists believe in the absence of god. Pretty much amounts to the same idea as your faith.

I consider a lack of belief, rather than a belief in a lack.

Hitler was a religious person who publically promoted Christianity as a German virtue, and we all know the destructiveness of the Communist ideology.

Moral values are not Christianity's alone, and religions have no right to monopolise them.

Actually, religion of any kind was strongly discouraged in the Third Reich. And anyway, I'm not saying religion is the sole cause of morality, I am just saying that neither is it the sole cause of evil, and non-religious people can be evil too. Religion is not the problem, humanity is. The bible didn't tell the crusaders to go and kill any muslims they saw, The Church, a human institution, started it all because they were too drunk on power. But that's a whole different debate...