NationStates Jolt Archive

Oups !!
.

I know Blair faked Iran map
1st April 2007
Like most senior Royal Navy officers, Commodore Nick Lambert has great reserves of professional expertise and common sense. The Coalition task force commander was aboard HMS Cornwall when 15 Royal Navy personnel serving on the frigate were seized at gunpoint by Iranian forces on March 23.

(map) http://img.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2007/03_03/iraqmapEPA3103_468x347.jpg

The Navy states the 14 men and one woman were on a routine patrol in rigid inflatables off Iraqi shores - Iran insists they were in its waters illegally.

A few hours after the 15 were seized, Cdre Lambert said: 'There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that they were in Iraqi territorial waters. Equally, the Iranians may well claim that they were in their territorial waters. The extent and definition of territorial waters in this part of the world is very complicated.'

And his predecessor in command of the task force, Commodore Peter Lockwood of the Royal Australian Navy, said last October: 'No maritime border has been agreed upon by the countries.'

Both officers told the truth. It is the burial of this truth by No 10 spin doctors, and Tony Blair's remark that he is 'utterly certain' the incident took place within Iraqi territorial limits, that has escalated this from an incident to a crisis.

By CRAIG MURRAY, Former Ambassador to Uzbekistan and Head of the Foreign Office's Maritime Section
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/newscomment.html?in_article_id=445896&in_page_id=1787&in_a_source=

:rolleyes:

Oh brother.

:rolleyes:

Oh brother.talk to me Corny... ;) (care to elaborate)

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the Daily Mail the British print equivalent of Fox News?

I still want to know what's up with the ##'s.

This is really an example of something that everybody thinks is huge, but will end up blowing over. Remember when people thought WWIII would occur because of the Danish Cartoon incident? Same here.

You heard it from me first.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the Daily Mail the British print equivalent of Fox News?


Wouldn't it support the gov't and military without thinking then?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the Daily Mail the British print equivalent of Fox News?

Yes. Yes it is.

I do believe the ENTIRE gulf is disputed. Besides that second map doesn't show anything. The merchant vessel is in Iraq waters as well. So where does it show that they 'crossed over' in the second map... Wait it doesn't, we're supposed to trust them in where they were captured is in Iranian waters.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the Daily Mail the British print equivalent of Fox News?

Not if it's not criticizing Iran.

Yes. Yes it is.damn.
I am so screwed.
FOX for crying out loud.. somebody please shoot me :D

Now I find myself wondering if CRAIG MURRAY is actually a Former ambassador... like the Daily claims.

On the one hand, I don't see any reason to trust what Iran says, but on the other hand, what domestic policy has Blair been working on? Anything he'd want to distract attention from? Of course, we'd have the entire navy captured if Blair did something like that every time he made a unpopular decision...

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the Daily Mail the British print equivalent of Fox News?

Well, one of the things its best known for is being on the side of the Nazis before Britain went to war with them in WW2...

He's just got a chip on his shoulder ever since the FCO sacked him for being a pillock.

There's one problem with his theory though. It's clear that even if the Iranians in the past didn't agree that the border was there, for the purposes of the dispute they are working off the same border we are. This is shown by the way when their first position for the capture was pointed out to be on the Iraqi side of the border as we understand it they didn't say that our understanding of the border was wrong, but that they had given the wrong position. The whole dispute isn't over one position and two alternative borders, but one border and two alternative locations.

He's just got a chip on his shoulder ever since the FCO sacked him for being a pillock.

There's one problem with his theory though. It's clear that even if the Iranians in the past didn't agree that the border was there, for the purposes of the dispute they are working off the same border we are. This is shown by the way when their first position for the capture was pointed out to be on the Iraqi side of the border as we understand it they didn't say that our understanding of the border was wrong, but that they had given the wrong position. The whole dispute isn't over one position and two alternative borders, but one border and two alternative locations.

Exactly. The maps shown on Iranian TV have had similar lines but shown different positions of the ships/boats.

Anyway, The DailyMail OD? You should know better. That's like sourcing the Enquirerer or Star.

Why am I being quoted in a thread I've not been in before?

It's OD. 'Nuff said.

Why am I being quoted in a thread I've not been in before?

Why am I being quoted in a thread I've not been in before?

Because we love you.

Because we love you.

Aww, well ain't that nice.

As to the OP, if Blair has 'escalated' this crisis by claiming they were definitely in Iraqi waters, what have the Iranians been doing by claiming they were definitely in theirs?

Daily Mail?

Um... no...

I still want to know what's up with the ##'s.

And I still want my question answered.

I still want to know what's up with the ##'s.

seconded. i think that's the real mystery here.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the Daily Mail the British print equivalent of Fox News?

I believe so.

Kewl. My post is also my join date now.

seconded. i think that's the real mystery here.

I believe OD once said it was so he could find his own threads. That it irritates other people is apparently unimportant.

I believe OD once said it was so he could find his own threads. That it irritates other people is apparently unimportant.
ah. one of those easily solved mysteries then.

I believe OD once said it was so he could find his own threads. That it irritates other people is apparently unimportant.

Why not just use the subscribe feature?

I believe OD once said it was so he could find his own threads. That it irritates other people is apparently unimportant.

Wouldn't it be simpler to just hit Ctrl-F and enter "Occeandrive"?

I believe OD once said it was so he could find his own threads. That it irritates other people is apparently unimportant.

Oh yes, I remember now. I don't think that thread ended well because of that discussion, so perhaps we should just drop it before it gets out of hand.

Why am I being quoted in a thread I've not been in before?I tough you wouldnt mind..
I can correct that.
*erases quote from OP*
taken care of.

And I still want my question answered.

It's a code OD uses to send information to his paymasters in Iran. By taking the first letter of each word after the ##, we get "FBABFIMAT15CM". Coincidence? I think not...

Wow, selective quoting is fantastic. Read the whole article and one finds that it has been extracted from the blog of Craig Murray. Oceandrive would have done well to find the original source and present that rather than the Dailymail extract that is being lambasted over bias.

Nor does he definitively say Blair faked the map. Murray states that there is no definitive and up to date map on territorial waters in the gulf. Hence the Royal Navy has been operating on a provisional border that it has drawn up. However, it has also been aggressively enforcing this border. Iran, in retaliation has detained navy personel who boarded a neutral ship in what they claim as their territorial water.

Murray goes on to say that his is an overly aggresive, but legitmate course of action for the Irans if they were to have held the navy personel for a few days. However, they have held the navy personel for an extended period of time, but nor has the British government done much to calm to situation either by claiming that they are no way in the wrong.

Yes, Iran has a bad government that is behaving stupidly. But perhaps it is not alone. Both sides have to climb down. We have to state that no agreed border exists and that we had no intention of straying into Iranian waters.

No-one will ever know where the sailor's were, as both sides have it in their interests to lie.