NationStates Jolt Archive

It's the 21st century! It's time to give up colonies once and for all! The US needs to give up its claim on Guam, along with its claims on other "territories," like Puerto Rico, Samoa, etc.

Comments?

It's the 21st century! It's time to give up colonies once and for all! The US needs to give up its claim on Guam, along with its other "territories," like Puerto Rico, Samoa, etc.

Comments?

Are there any other main reasons beside the centurey on why this must be done?

Next you'll be saying the UK needs to give away the Falklands...

Last I checked, the people there (at least in Puerto Rico) voted to remain US territories.

We should let them decide for themselves.

As an example, the people of Vieques really wanted us out, and so we left.

Turns out that just having the Navy leave destroyed the Vieques economy.

Ah, the residents of Guam do not care for our presence?

Are there any other main reasons beside the centurey on why this must be done?
Well, 21 is the legal drinking age . . .

Why? They've all voted to stay as territories

The US is like a big brother to those territories, willing to lend a helping hand every once in a while. They democratically opted to retain their special connection with the US because they realized that it was a mutually symbiotic relationship. It's our job as the big brother to protect our younger siblings; we cannot waver from this duty.

That and all these territories benefit much heavily off the US presence. If we left, watch the economies crumble.

The US is like a big brother to those territories, willing to lend a helping hand every once in a while. They democratically opted to retain their special connection with the US because they realized that it was a mutually symbiotic relationship. It's our job as the big brother to protect our younger siblings; we cannot waver from this duty.

Surely this is too good to be accidental.

And yeah, welcome back MTAE.

Two words - Self Determination

If these people want to be part of the USA, give them statehood and accept them. If not, let them go.

Sure after Denmark gives up Greenland, France give up French Guyiana, England gives up the Falkin islands and Northern Ireland, Spain should give up the Canary Islands, the list can go on for quite a while.

Every time I hear the word 'Guam', I think of bat poo. :p

Last I heard they voted to remain US territories.

Two words - Self Determination

If these people want to be part of the USA, give them statehood and accept them. If not, let them go.

Wait...

But we give Puerto Rico our protection, free trade, and they don't have to pay any taxes.

Two words - Self Determination

If these people want to be part of the USA, give them statehood and accept them. If not, let them go.

They voted to stay in, but I suppose you missed that news event as well.

Two words - Self Determination

If these people want to be part of the USA, give them statehood and accept them. If not, let them go.

They have self determination and each time they voted on it they have voted to keep things the way they are.

I was under the impression that Puerto Rico was enjoying itself, what with having all the benifits of being a US state without actually being one.

It's the 21st century! It's time to give up colonies once and for all! The US needs to give up its claim on Guam, along with its claims on other "territories," like Puerto Rico, Samoa, etc.

Comments?

We could always, I dunno, let 'em vote on it.

they can pry my guam from my cold dead fingers

It's the 21st century! It's time to give up colonies once and for all! The US needs to give up its claim on Guam, along with its claims on other "territories," like Puerto Rico, Samoa, etc.

Comments?

Get rid of Puerto Rico? WHy???? They'd make an export tax on Puerto Rican women. We simply cannot have that!

The people of the territories opt to stay with the US. On another side note if we get rid of Guam where are we going to station B2 bombers to menace N Korea?

The people of the territories opt to stay with the US. On another side note if we get rid of Guam where are we going to station B2 bombers to menace N Korea?

Missouri

Virginia

They are alot more effective within quick striking distance. However either location works but there is something said to a news flash: "President orders squad of B2 bombers to Guam."

I believe they are in Missouri btw.

We should let them decide for themselves.
As an example, the people of Vieques really wanted us out, and so we left.
Turns out that just having the Navy leave destroyed the Vieques economy.
The US Navy stopped using live ordinances in Vieques after almost a year of protesters living on the bombing range. The Navy also gave part of it back to the Puerto Rican government to turn into a nature reserve. The naval base is Rosevelt Roads which wasn't located on Vieques. The economy of Vieques wasn't all that great while the Navy was using it as a live bombing range. I can't imagine it could have gotten any worse. I left a year after the protesters were arrested, so I can't be certain of Vieques's current economic state.

I was under the impression that Puerto Rico was enjoying itself, what with having all the benifits of being a US state without actually being one.
That's the overall feeling I got from reading the San Juan Star. I just never understood how certain people in the government could be so strongly anti- American one day (for no real reason), then turn around the very next day and ask America for help with a flood. With their asking, they would kiss America's ass. Then they'd be back to berating America for every little thing.

To be fair. That's not the opinion of most Puerto Ricans. At least not the Puerto Ricans I encountered. Most wanted statehood, though they feared new taxes. Especially since the taxes they were already paying were so high.

They are alot more effective within quick striking distance. However either location works but there is something said to a news flash: "President orders squad of B2 bombers to Guam."

I believe they are in Missouri btw.

Whiteman AFB, to be exact.

As a person that was born in Puerto Rico;

We have consistently voted to keep the Commonwealth status with the US. However, as a commonwealth, we do not get all the federal benefits that a state does. We do not get full funding for programs the way a state would, so about 2/3 to 3/4 of the program funding has to come from island taxes.

We do not pay federal taxes, that is true. And the US has had laws that lets US based companies set up in PR and not pay taxes to the US. However, everyone of those has a time limit, and as soon as the tax break expires, they leave the island. Yes, we do get full US citizenship, and also have the pleasure to be drafted into the armed forces, and we do not have a voting representative in the congress; but we have known that fully well and still opt to keep the commonwealth status.

And it is a case of the people deciding if they want to become a state, maintain the commonwealth status or go independant. Of course, that is a better option that the states have, since they cannot seceede if they wish to.

It is the same thing with the US Virgin Islands, Guam, and the Trust Territor of the Pacific, and I believe American Samoa.

Vic

Sure after Denmark gives up Greenland, France give up French Guyiana, England gives up the Falkin islands and Northern Ireland, Spain should give up the Canary Islands, the list can go on for quite a while.

How Las Canarias compare, I wonder? They are a Spanish Autonomous Community, as Hawaii, or Alaska, for instance. With full rights.

It's the 21st century! It's time to give up colonies once and for all! The US needs to give up its claim on Guam, along with its claims on other "territories," like Puerto Rico, Samoa, etc.

Comments?

Well, Puerto Rico keeps voting to stay, so kicking them out might not be in their best interests. As for the rest, I don't really care. Let 'em stay if they want or vote to leave.

The people of the territories opt to stay with the US. On another side note if we get rid of Guam where are we going to station B2 bombers to menace N Korea?

The same place we already do. South Korea.

As a person that was born in Puerto Rico;

We have consistently voted to keep the Commonwealth status with the US. However, as a commonwealth, we do not get all the federal benefits that a state does. We do not get full funding for programs the way a state would, so about 2/3 to 3/4 of the program funding has to come from island taxes.

We do not pay federal taxes, that is true. And the US has had laws that lets US based companies set up in PR and not pay taxes to the US. However, everyone of those has a time limit, and as soon as the tax break expires, they leave the island. Yes, we do get full US citizenship, and also have the pleasure to be drafted into the armed forces, and we do not have a voting representative in the congress; but we have known that fully well and still opt to keep the commonwealth status.

And it is a case of the people deciding if they want to become a state, maintain the commonwealth status or go independant. Of course, that is a better option that the states have, since they cannot seceede if they wish to.

It is the same thing with the US Virgin Islands, Guam, and the Trust Territor of the Pacific, and I believe American Samoa.

Vic


Quite. Since whenever the issue is put to a vote, Puerto Rico at least (and probably the others) always vote to stay in, I'm not going to argue that they shouldn't.

It's the 21st century! It's time to give up colonies once and for all! The US needs to give up its claim on Guam, along with its claims on other "territories," like Puerto Rico, Samoa, etc.

Comments?

I'm not sure what the view of Guamanians (and especially Indigenous Guamanians) is on the topic, but I'm fairly sure American Samoans have said they're content with the status quo, because of all the advantages it brings them.

Still, the US has been decolonising, or was in the 1990s. Palau, the FSM and the Marshall Islands are now nominally sovereign, even if in many ways they remain "satellite countries" of the US, and are heavily dependent on aid from their former colonisers (the US).

Then you have Hawai'i, which is a whole other issue...

The same place we already do. South Korea.

Last time they did it was Guam. Remember when Bush ordered them to Guam in the start of the Iraq war?

Last time they did it was Guam. Remember when Bush ordered them to Guam in the start of the Iraq war?

I think they were also deployed to Diego Garcia during the early stages of the invasion.

I think they were also deployed to Diego Garcia during the early stages of the invasion.

The ones I mentioned were specifically to bomb N Korea if they did anything stupid. It was implied at the time that is why they were there. Nothing like a gun to the head with a nuclear bullet.

I must say that I find it hard to support any argument where the sole premise is what year or century it is.

I must say that I find it hard to support any argument where the sole premise is what year or century it is.

I'm sure you're smart enough not to take it that literally. :rolleyes:

I'm sure you're smart enough not to take it that literally. :rolleyes:

To be fair, the original post gave no arguments for releasing US territories except "It's the 21st century and it's time to get rid of colonies". It doesn't even attempt to argue that territories are immoral or economically unbeneficial or unnecessary.

Two words - Self Determination

If these people want to be part of the USA, give them statehood and accept them. If not, let them go.

Puerto Rico is happy with its status as a territory. They continously vote down becoming a state but likes being a territory.

How Las Canarias compare, I wonder? They are a Spanish Autonomous Community, as Hawaii, or Alaska, for instance. With full rights.

Hawaii and Alaska are states in the Union.

Then you have Hawai'i, which is a whole other issue...

Um...what issue is Hawaii that say...Idaho is not?

Two words - Self Determination

If these people want to be part of the USA, give them statehood and accept them. If not, let them go.

Agreed for truth.

Um...what issue is Hawaii that say...Idaho is not?

Hawai'i was taken illegally (the US government has admitted this and apologized), and as such, should technically not be a part of the US.

Hawai'i was taken illegally (the US government has admitted this and apologized), and as such, should technically not be a part of the US.

You could technically argue that all of America was taken illegally from the already indeginous people living here just like Hawaii but I don't really want to deal with that.

Hawai'i was taken illegally (the US government has admitted this and apologized), and as such, should technically not be a part of the US.

We'll give it back as soon as Russia returns northern Manchuria and Sakhalin to China, hows that sound?

You could technically argue that all of America was taken illegally from the already indeginous people living here just like Hawaii but I don't really want to deal with that.

At least half of it was. The other half was done in trade. Hawaii in my opinion was either going to be taken over by the US or another nation at some point.

Here is the official US government version:

http://www.state.gov/r/pa/ho/time/gp/17661.htm

Some other non-governmental opinions:

http://www.museumoftheamericanwest.org/explore/exhibits/suffrage/suffrage_hi.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Hawaii

So some different viewpoints here. I believe that it would not make sense to restore the Hawaiian kingdom today because truly there are very few "Natives" left. Most of the people on Hawaii today are Asian and South Pacific Islanders. They may call themselves Hawaiian however if DNA were taken I bet the majority would not pass the test as the mainland Natives do to establish a Native bloodline for benefits. So it is now a moot point in my opinion. Just another historical footnote.

Plus, if you go around and try to force every nation to make concessions and repayments to every other people or country they have wronged throughout history... well, it boggles the mind.

The past happened, and it can't be changed. Deal with it. The best we can do is learn from it.

Every time I hear the word 'Guam', I think of bat poo. :p

Greenwald hit the lights! The switch to your left, hit it! *combat roll* :D

On a less Ventura note: Do they care that we're there? I haven't seen any sign of protest yet.