NationStates Jolt Archive

We should replace bilingual education with immersion in English so people learn the common language of the country and they learn the language of prosperity, not the language of living in a ghetto,"
http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/03/31/gingrich.bilingual.ap/index.html

:rolleyes:

I'm speechless. How do you think he'll wriggle out of this one? I don't see how he could justify this with anything other than plain old bigotry.

...

Wow. What's even more frightening are the results of the poll on the left.

So he hates black people?

http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/03/31/gingrich.bilingual.ap/index.html

:rolleyes:

I'm speechless. How do you think he'll wriggle out of this one? I don't see how he could justify this with anything other than plain old bigotry.

He can't. At least, not without going halfway through Insanity and making a left turn at Looneyville.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/03/31/gingrich.bilingual.ap/index.html

:rolleyes:

I'm speechless. How do you think he'll wriggle out of this one? I don't see how he could justify this with anything other than plain old bigotry.

My goodness! A Republican saying something hateful! What's next? Warm weather in Florida? Traffic jams in New York? Bad Pizza in Los Angeles?

There could be no end to the things that continue to happen all the time same as always. :eek:

"Language of prosperity" - ränn mig i röven, vilken jävla felknullad fitta den här människan är!

So he hates black people?

only black people that speak spanish, i think

"Language of prosperity" - ränn mig i röven, vilken jävla felknullad fitta den här människan är!

My translation site is broked, what are you saying?

My translation site is broked, what are you saying?

Approximately "plough me in the crapper, what a wrongly fucked **** this person is".

Newt may be totally devoid of tact, but he has something of a point. Admittedly, it's more like the deformed recently separated siamese twin of what actually counts for political dialogue, but it has some vague semblance of a reasonable argument.

It's just easier to succeed economically if you speak passable English, when you live in the United States.

That our amphibian friend mixed his quasi-racist diatribe into this one just makes it harder to see the obvious fact.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/03/31/gingrich.bilingual.ap/index.html

:rolleyes:

I'm speechless. How do you think he'll wriggle out of this one? I don't see how he could justify this with anything other than plain old bigotry.

How is it bigotry? The fact is that if yo can't speak English in America, you most likely won't succeed. As an immigrant, I can attest that the sooner you learn English, the better.

Arrogant, bigoted bastard. People like this should not be influential in society.

Approximately "plough me in the crapper, what a wrongly fucked **** this person is".
oh wtf, my site said "shoot me in the robbery...something something...this person is". Were you using slang?


It's just easier to succeed economically if you speak passable English, when you live in the United States.

That our amphibian friend mixed his quasi-racist diatribe into this one just makes it harder to see the obvious fact.

My objection is more to him associating Spanish speaking people to poor people living in crime ridden slums. His statement shows a lot of prejudice.

How is it bigotry? The fact is that if yo can't speak English in America, you most likely won't succeed. As an immigrant, I can attest that the sooner you learn English, the better.

Yes, learning a nation's home language IS a good thing, but he's saying bilingual education is a joke. He's also saying that people who speak different languages are people who "live in the ghetto." Basically, immigrants=scum, according to him.

Disturbing. This has really brought down my April Fool's Day. :(

Disturbing. This has really brought down my April Fool's Day. :(

Oh shit, he's got a ready-made back door.

People here should learn English, and most places in the US where foreign languages are spoken but English is not are ghettos. We have many of them here in Phoenix where I live.

In the US (and the rest of the world) English is the language of prosperity (of business).

Gingrich is unelectable and a dirty republican, but what he said was accurate.

Yes, learning a nation's home language IS a good thing, but he's saying bilingual education is a joke. He's also saying that people who speak different languages are people who "live in the ghetto." Basically, immigrants=scum, according to him.

I think you're putting words into his mouth. Just because a person may live in the ghetto doesn't make them scum, and Gingrich never called anyone scum.

Yes, learning a nation's home language IS a good thing, but he's saying bilingual education is a joke. He's also saying that people who speak different languages are people who "live in the ghetto." Basically, immigrants=scum, according to him.

Why do you think people who live in ghettos are scum?

People who live in ghettos are just poor.

Is it that you think poor people are scum? Why else would you post this?

Oh shit, he's got a ready-made back door.

Heh, I don't think this particular "joke" is going to do him any favors. Hopefully the "liberal" media will sink their teeth into this and not let go. I wonder how Faux News will handle the story though...

I agree with him.

I agree that English immersion should replace bi-lingual education. I think that instruction in a language other than English should be treated the same way religious education is. I don't agree about the "language of the gehtto" stuff though. There is nothing wrong with leaning and speaking other languages and cultures, especially the language you are brought up with or that of your parents grandparents. BUT If they want to learn that way they can go to after school programs or private institutions.

My family is a product of English Immersion, and other Americanization efforts made to assimilate immigrants in the late 1800s and early 1900s. That's one of the big issues.

I'm not saying if you are an immigrant that you can keep your culture, you just have to adopt some of American culture as well.

Why do you think people who live in ghettos are scum?

People who live in ghettos are just poor.


I think you're putting words into his mouth. Just because a person may live in the ghetto doesn't make them scum,

And just because someone doesn't speak English doesn't make them "ghetto."

End of story.

Here's a tip for you wannabe-conservative nationalists. Don't defend the racist, xenophobic, bigoted shit-stains. It makes you look bad. It makes you look like desperate, partisan sycophants.

And just because someone doesn't speak English doesn't make them "ghetto."

End of story.

Here's a tip for you wannabe-conservative nationalists. Don't defend the racist, xenophobic, bigoted shit-stains. It makes you look bad. It makes you look like desperate, partisan sycophants.

I have no pretentions to being a conservative or a nationalist, I'm a Liberal.

The FACT of the matter is that areas in the US where a foreign language is predominant tend to be SLUMS, which in English are also called "ghettos."

I often drive through them living here in Phoenix and know these facts firsthand.

Also, in the US (and a lot of the world, for that matter) English really is the "language of prosperity" - it is the lingua franca of business, and it is an enormous asset in the US to know English - to be able to communicate with both your employer and customers.

Newt Gingrich has many flaws and demerits, but this speech isn't one of them.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/03/31/gingrich.bilingual.ap/index.html

:rolleyes:

I'm speechless. How do you think he'll wriggle out of this one? I don't see how he could justify this with anything other than plain old bigotry.






I agree here, if you don't speak english your chances of success in america are low, english immersion is something I support and it works. This is not bigotry.

Yes, learning a nation's home language IS a good thing, but he's saying bilingual education is a joke. He's also saying that people who speak different languages are people who "live in the ghetto." Basically, immigrants=scum, according to him.



http://www.us-english.org/inc/


http://www.us-english.org/foundation/about/mujica.asp


Some immigrants agree with him...Like Mr. Mujica who came from Chile.

I agree that English immersion should replace bi-lingual education. [...]

My family is a product of English Immersion, and other Americanization efforts made to assimilate immigrants in the late 1800s and early 1900s. That's one of the big issues.

I'm not saying if you are an immigrant that you can keep your culture, you just have to adopt some of American culture as well.

I was raised bilingual myself (French, the national language, and English, the language of my immigrant mother). Bilingualism is a huge asset. It should be encouraged, not discouraged.

Not only can it be useful when looking for a job, it also helps your mind expand, by giving you the means to properly understand more than one culture. Being fluent from childhood in more than one language also makes it easier for you to grasp the ways in which the specifics of one language influence your way of thinking, and the way in which you conceptualise the world.

Of course you should learn the main language of the country you live in. But bilingualism is the way to do it.

I was raised bilingual myself (French, the national language, and English, the language of my immigrant mother). Bilingualism is a huge asset. It should be encouraged, not discouraged.

Not only can it be useful when looking for a job, it also helps your mind expand, by giving you the means to properly understand more than one culture. Being fluent from childhood in more than one language also makes it easier for you to grasp the ways in which the specifics of one language influence your way of thinking, and the way in which you conceptualise the world.

Of course you should learn the main language of the country you live in. But bilingualism is the way to do it.


Mind telling me how learning another language helps you conceptualise the world? I keep hearing it helps in math...How I don't know, I only speak english...SO I wouldn't any of these things.

And just because someone doesn't speak English doesn't make them "ghetto."

It's hard to imagine how an individual can prosper in a country whose language is a mystery to him. An extremely large portion of those who cannot speak English live in poverty or otherwise poor circumstances. That's a fact, despite what bleeding-heart liberals may believe. Calling someone who simply states the (perhaps unpleasant [to some]) truth a "xenophobe" or a "bigot" simply displays ignorance.

No one is arguing that people should not learn english. Every immigrant everywhere in the world knows that learning the local language makes life easier.

What people are pissed about is Gingrich's assumption that people who speak spanish live in a ghetto. It does a disservice to people like Mr. Mujica who was mentioned upthread. There are many sapnish speaking people in the USA who are very successful. I am sure that they all believe that learning english was necessary, but many would also agree that knowing spanish was also useful.

Not to mention that the bilingual education system makes it easier for children to learn english.

Peter Zamora, co-chair of the Washington-based Hispanic Education Coalition, which supports bilingual education, said, "The tone of his comments were very hateful. Spanish is spoken by many individuals who do not live in the ghetto."

He said research has shown "that bilingual education is the best method of teaching English to non-English speakers."

Spanish-speakers, Zamora said, know they need to learn English.

"There's no resistance to learning English, really, among immigrants, among native-born citizens," he said. "Everyone wants to learn English because it's what you need to thrive in this country."

While the statement may have some factual truth to it, I'm always suspicious about the meaning behind the words when it comes to the Newt. I'm plenty old enough to remember his Contract on America.

The FACT of the matter is that areas in the US where a foreign language is predominant tend to be SLUMS, which in English are also called "ghettos."

I often drive through them living here in Phoenix and know these facts firsthand.

Anecdote =/= Fact.

It's hard to imagine how an individual can prosper in a country whose language is a mystery to him

Your lack of imagination is not the basis for a valid argument.

An extremely large portion of those who cannot speak English live in poverty or otherwise poor circumstances

Gingrich said, "Spanish is the language of the ghetto." Not "Those who can't speak English live in poverty."

You're a bright guy, you can see the difference...

That's a fact, despite what bleeding-heart liberals may believe.

...nevermind, I guess you can't.

Spanish Harlem is not a ghetto by any spec of the imagination, and you won't hear English there. At all. Spanish only.

Gingrich said, "Spanish is the language of the ghetto." Not "Those who can't speak English live in poverty."

You're a bright guy, you can see the difference...

You're twisting the poor chap's intent. He meant to say that those who are only capable of speaking Spanish in the US shall be condemned to living in the ghetto, not that a language spoken by many prosperous people is symbolic of dire conditions.

You're twisting the poor chap's intent. He meant to say that those who are only capable of speaking Spanish in the US shall be condemned to living in the ghetto, not that a language spoken by many prosperous people is symbolic of dire conditions.

Oh is that what he MEANT to say. Thank God for your telepathic abilities.

And it's funny, because if that's what he MEANT to say, but what he in FACT said is something totally racist and bigoted, what does that tell you about his glorious use of the Language Of Prosperity? It tells me that it doesn't matter what language you use, you can always be a giant xenophobic turd.

And welcome back MTAE.

Oh is that what he MEANT to say. Thank God for your telepathic abilities.

What he meant to say is patently obvious. His sole desire is to see downtrodden Hispanic youths succeed in an alien nation by immersing them in the language of that nation rather than subjecting them to ghetto-like conditions. His compassion transcends his faulty use of English. I don't care how the liberal media misconstrued his message of love and turned it into one of hate; he is a great and altruistic man who has the best interests of Spanish-speakers at heart.

And welcome back MTAE.

Huh? :confused:

His sole desire is to see downtrodden Hispanic youths succeed in an alien nation by immersing them in the language of that nation rather than subjecting them to ghetto-like conditions. His compassion transcends his faulty use of English. I don't care how the liberal media misconstrued his message of love and turned it into one of hate; he is a great and altruistic man who has the best interests of Spanish-speakers at heart.



Huh? :confused:


LOOOOOOOL.

I'm not going to play games with you. I prefer argument to playing games with trolls. Sorry.

I'm speechless. How do you think he'll wriggle out of this one? I don't see how he could justify this with anything other than plain old bigotry.

Why wiggle out of it! It's a fact, we've dumbed down society to an all new low! How horrible would it be if EVERYBODY spoke proper English?:eek:

Mind telling me how learning another language helps you conceptualise the world? I keep hearing it helps in math...How I don't know, I only speak english...SO I wouldn't any of these things.

mainly because we think in words. if you are natively fluent in multiple languages, you can think in more words with finer gradations of meaning and coming from a number of cultural perspectives.

also, the human brain just is generally improved by the mental exercise.

LOOOOOOOL.

I'm not going to play games with you. I prefer argument to playing games with trolls. Sorry.

I don't want to play games with you, either. However, I don't want you to dissect an otherwise noble man for a minute linguistic mistake. It pains me to see Newt getting ruthlessly picked apart for one miuscule error when all he was trying to do was aid Hispanic youths in getting a foothold in American culture and life. And for that, he was scathingly decried in the media. What happened to him is a pity. He's a good man; don't let anyone say otherwise. Alas, this is not a game; it's simply sympomatic of the sad reality in which we live where ravenous fiends can devour such an upstanding individual.

English-only instruction doesn't make people magically forget their native languages - they learn and maintain those at home with their families.

On the other hand, it has been quite successful in training generation after generation of immigrants in English, the unequivocal Language of Prosperity in America and other parts of the world.

People who don't live in the southwest may not have the experience necessary to understand the difference between poverty-stricken neighborhoods and apartment complexes where Spanish is the primary language and areas where it isn't.

How can Mexicans and other immigrants make a decent living if they can't get decent jobs because they can't speak English?

Ignorance of the country's language diminishes chances to prosper, and by that mechanism increases chances of living in a ghetto.

English-only instruction doesn't make people magically forget their native languages - they learn and maintain those at home with their families.

On the other hand, it has been quite successful in training generation after generation of immigrants in English, the unequivocal Language of Prosperity in America and other parts of the world.

People who don't live in the southwest may not have the experience necessary to understand the difference between poverty-stricken neighborhoods and apartment complexes where Spanish is the primary language and areas where it isn't.

How can Mexicans and other immigrants make a decent living if they can't get decent jobs because they can't speak English?

Ignorance of the country's language diminishes chances to prosper, and by that mechanism increases chances of living in a ghetto.

None of which supports the statement that Spanish is the Language of the Ghetto.

I don't want to play games with you, either. However, I don't want you to dissect an otherwise noble man for a minute linguistic mistake. It pains me to see Newt getting ruthlessly picked apart for one miuscule error when all he was trying to do was aid Hispanic youths in getting a foothold in American culture and life. And for that, he was scathingly decried in the media. What happened to him is a pity. He's a good man; don't let anyone say otherwise. Alas, this is not a game; it's simply sympomatic of the sad reality in which we live where ravenous fiends can devour such an upstanding individual.

Blah, blah, blah.

Play your fucking games elsewhere.

What he meant to say is patently obvious. His sole desire is to see downtrodden Hispanic youths succeed in an alien nation by immersing them in the language of that nation rather than subjecting them to ghetto-like conditions. His compassion transcends his faulty use of English. I don't care how the liberal media misconstrued his message of love and turned it into one of hate; he is a great and altruistic man who has the best interests of Spanish-speakers at heart.

If that were the case, then Gingrich would be supporting bilingualism, as it has been shown to help young children master English language skills.

But don't take my word for it. Dr. James Cummins is a leader in second language learning and literacy development research:

Bilingualism has positive effects on children's linguistic and educational development. When children continue to develop their abilities in two or more languages throughout their primary school years, they gain a deeper understanding of language and how to use it effectively. They have more practice in processing language, especially when they develop literacy in both, and they are able to compare and contrast the ways in which their two languages organize reality. More than 150 research studies conducted during the past 35 years strongly support what Goethe, the German philosopher, once said: The person who knows only one language does not truly know that language. The research suggests that bilingual children may also develop more flexibility in their thinking as a result of processing information through two different languages.

http://www.iteachilearn.com/cummins/mother.htm

Blah, blah, blah.

Play your fucking games elsewhere.

Yeah, he disagrees with you, so he must be playing games. Typical of the closed-mindedness I've come to expect from NSG. :rolleyes:

While the statement may have some factual truth to it, I'm always suspicious about the meaning behind the words when it comes to the Newt.

Oh, and let's not judge the words either, but who said them. More typical garbage.

I'm plenty old enough to remember his Contract on America.

Oh, yeah, and the silly sound-byte-style rhetoric. "I can't make a real argument, so..."

Bloody pathetic. :rolleyes:

If that were the case, then Gingrich would be supporting bilingualism, as it has been shown to help young children master English language skills.

I guess that's why Hispanic children do so much worse than Caucasian children on standardized English tests; obviously, Hispanic children have mastered both Spanish and English and pass such examinations with flying colors. Oh, wait -- the facts disagree with that charlatan's thesis!

Oh, and let's not judge the words either, but who said them. More typical garbage.

the words aren't even coded racist bullshit. it's right there out in the open. we don't even have to dig to figure out why calling spanish "the language of living in a ghetto" is aimed directly at the racist fucktard base, like the moderate amount we have to do when the fash start talking about 'law and order'.

the words aren't even coded racist bullshit. it's right there out in the open. we don't even have to dig to figure out why calling spanish "the language of living in a ghetto" is aimed directly at the racist fucktard base, like the moderate amount we have to do when the fash start talking about 'law and order'.

Um, no, it means that you need to be able to speak English to succeed in the US. Believing otherwise is just ignorant.

Oh, and the "fash"...right...more senseless rhetoric. "You don't agree with me? I'm throwing the fascist card! I don't know what the fuck a fascist really is, but I hear it's bad." Yeah, fascism's bad, but the fascist label doesn't apply to everyone who disagrees with you. Do yourself a favour. Get off of internet forums. Get a real education. A dictionary would be a good start.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/03/31/gingrich.bilingual.ap/index.html

:rolleyes:

I'm speechless. How do you think he'll wriggle out of this one? I don't see how he could justify this with anything other than plain old bigotry.

Gingrich: Heil Hitler!
Seriously, this just sounds like something Nazi - in America, black people live in the "ghetto", but black people speak English. In Nazi Germany, Jewish people lived in the ghettos and had their own language. Coincidence? Unlikely.

Yeah, he disagrees with you, so he must be playing games. Typical of the closed-mindedness I've come to expect from NSG. :rolleyes:

Pot. Kettle. Black.

Um, no, it means that you need to be able to speak English to succeed in the US. Believing otherwise is just ignorant.
Sure, the language needed to "succeed" in America is English (unless you have a real job and have to work with other people), but is that a reason to abolish bilingual education entirely? Fuck no. To think otherwise is racist and ignorant.

Newt may be totally devoid of tact, but he has something of a point. Admittedly, it's more like the deformed recently separated siamese twin of what actually counts for political dialogue, but it has some vague semblance of a reasonable argument.

It's just easier to succeed economically if you speak passable English, when you live in the United States.

That our amphibian friend mixed his quasi-racist diatribe into this one just makes it harder to see the obvious fact.

I have no pretentions to being a conservative or a nationalist, I'm a Liberal.

The FACT of the matter is that areas in the US where a foreign language is predominant tend to be SLUMS, which in English are also called "ghettos."

I often drive through them living here in Phoenix and know these facts firsthand.

Also, in the US (and a lot of the world, for that matter) English really is the "language of prosperity" - it is the lingua franca of business, and it is an enormous asset in the US to know English - to be able to communicate with both your employer and customers.

Newt Gingrich has many flaws and demerits, but this speech isn't one of them.

Overall, the goal is right. But that's a shared goal. He's saying, "Immigrants need to be able to speak the language to succeed fully." Which is a 'duh.' But then he calls, well not Spanish specificly, but implied a language of a ghetto. Keep in mind that this is a peoples native tongue. That's more than a little tactless.

I actually was going to try and do what you're doing and defend what might have been a valid-ish point made poorly, but the more I read, the more it's just the same ol' Newt. Like someone says in the article, there isn't a resistance to learning English.

Then there is this-
I was raised bilingual myself (French, the national language, and English, the language of my immigrant mother). Bilingualism is a huge asset. It should be encouraged, not discouraged.

Not only can it be useful when looking for a job, it also helps your mind expand, by giving you the means to properly understand more than one culture. Being fluent from childhood in more than one language also makes it easier for you to grasp the ways in which the specifics of one language influence your way of thinking, and the way in which you conceptualise the world.

Of course you should learn the main language of the country you live in. But bilingualism is the way to do it.
Which is true.
English-only instruction doesn't make people magically forget their native languages - they learn and maintain those at home with their families.

On the other hand, it has been quite successful in training generation after generation of immigrants in English, the unequivocal Language of Prosperity in America and other parts of the world.

People who don't live in the southwest may not have the experience necessary to understand the difference between poverty-stricken neighborhoods and apartment complexes where Spanish is the primary language and areas where it isn't.

How can Mexicans and other immigrants make a decent living if they can't get decent jobs because they can't speak English?

Ignorance of the country's language diminishes chances to prosper, and by that mechanism increases chances of living in a ghetto.
The problem is that while we're waiting for the students to catch on to the new language they are falling behind in other subjects because they don't understand what's being said. So once they actually have learned the language they are behind in other subjects and at a disadvantage. That is why there is bilingual education, not because they don't want to learn it.
If that were the case, then Gingrich would be supporting bilingualism, as it has been shown to help young children master English language skills.

But don't take my word for it. Dr. James Cummins is a leader in second language learning and literacy development research:



http://www.iteachilearn.com/cummins/mother.htm

I honestly think it's horrid that Americans aren't taught more than one language as part of the regular ciriculum. (I should say that while I took French, I didn't do so well) If we learned more than one language ourselves we'd be more functional in the world around us.

Sure, the language needed to "succeed" in America is English (unless you have a real job and have to work with other people), but is that a reason to abolish bilingual education entirely? Fuck no. To think otherwise is racist and ignorant.

Yes, the racism card. Played out of order, I'm afraid. Try checking out the definition of race sometime. Has little to do with national origin.

Yes, the racism card. Played out of order, I'm afraid. Try checking out the definition of race sometime. Has little to do with national origin.

And that's the willful ignorance counter.

Um, no, it means that you need to be able to speak English to succeed in the US. Believing otherwise is just ignorant.

he didn't merely say 'it is important to learn english'. he said that bilingual education should be abolished because it teaches "the language of living in the ghetto".

this ain't fucking complicated.

Oh, and the "fash"...right...more senseless rhetoric. "You don't agree with me? I'm throwing the fascist card! I don't know what the fuck a fascist really is, but I hear it's bad." Yeah, fascism's bad, but the fascist label doesn't apply to everyone who disagrees with you. Do yourself a favour. Get off of internet forums. Get a real education. A dictionary would be a good start.

i explicitly use fascism in a technical sense, and have previously expanded at length on why the current usian right-wing authoritarian movement (of which gingrich is a major player) fits the criteria as well as we require of the diverse other movements that fall under the label.

And that's the willful ignorance counter.

What you've played there is the "I haven't a fucking clue" counter.

How is it bigotry? The fact is that if yo can't speak English in America, you most likely won't succeed. As an immigrant, I can attest that the sooner you learn English, the better.

No, any criticism of people who aren't English speakers, or aren't Americans by birth is considered bigotry here on NS General.

Besides, the usual NS take on the origin of the poor is that they were fucked into being poor, were poor for no reason of their own doing, and stay poor for no reason of their own doing. To NS, there are zero opportunities to make any money in the US.

When we say bilingual education, do we mean having ESL classes? In other words, teaching students in English and allowing them to learn in their native tongue, up to a point?

Or do we mean, by bilingual education, any foreign language classes taught in K-12?

Because slowly working the former out of the system, and ensuring that English is a naturally spoken tongue of people here, is sensible, though we should make provisions for those who are new to the country and do not yet know English fluently, while abolishing the other is simply idiotic.

What you've played there is the "I haven't a fucking clue" counter.
Whatever hypocrite.

Whatever hypocrite.

OMGooses!!1one I've been called a hypocrite (and by TPH no less :rolleyes: )! What's the matter, TPH? Can't come up with anything better?

Hmmm...thought not.

Not against close-minded ignorants.

Not against close-minded ignorants.

Good, wouldn't want to see you develop a multiple-personality disorder and start arguing with yourself.

Yeah, he disagrees with you, so he must be playing games. Typical of the closed-mindedness I've come to expect from NSG. :rolleyes:

No, he's playing games because he's doing the same nonsense MTAE did. Circumloquation and re-assertion of the same points without any real argument. Flowery phrases like "noble man" and "ravenous fiends." In fact, I would venture to say that this is in fact MeansToAnEnd - style and name and position so similar and all.

There are others here who disagree with me who aren't playing that game. The troll game.

the words aren't even coded racist bullshit. it's right there out in the open. we don't even have to dig to figure out why calling spanish "the language of living in a ghetto" is aimed directly at the racist fucktard base, like the moderate amount we have to do when the fash start talking about 'law and order'.

It's disgusting that anyone is actually stooping to defending these comments too. "Oh he didn't MEAN to say that." Or "It's not racist. Spanish is the ghetto language!"

It harms their position more than anything else I can think of, short of defending nazis.

Yeah, he disagrees with you, so he must be playing games. Typical of the closed-mindedness I've come to expect from NSG. :rolleyes:
Geezer! *pounce hugs* How have you been, old man? I've missed you! Are there any good spam threads lately? :fluffle:

Overall, the goal is right. But that's a shared goal. He's saying, "Immigrants need to be able to speak the language to succeed fully." Which is a 'duh.' But then he calls, well not Spanish specificly, but implied a language of a ghetto. Keep in mind that this is a peoples native tongue. That's more than a little tactless.

A poor turn of phrase, yes. A racist, bigotted statement? I'm not so sure.


We should replace bilingual education with immersion in English so people learn the common language of the country and they learn the language of prosperity, not the language of living in a ghetto,"

Yes, there are many prosperous Spanish speakers in this country. But I don't believe this statement is inherently racist. Poorly phrased, yes. But as has been said over and over again, English is the language of prosperity in the US. And immigrants are not known for their overwhelming wealth, as a general rule. They never have been, really. He makes a valid point later on, too, when he states that if you need to be able to pass a US History exam in English, it seems a bit much to spend the extra tax dollars printing ballots in languages other than English.

That doesn't mean he's right. He may be (and probably is) wrong. But I don't think it's fair for us to all jump down his throat for being racist.

And, frankly, this is our (US Citizen's) decision. If we let our reps pass a law making English the official language, we will give Newt a lot more of a foundation with all this. Personally, I think that's bullshit, and we've managed 200 some odd years without an official language, despite floods of immigrants from everywhere from Ireland, Germany, and Italy to Ethiopia, Eritria, Chad, the Congo, and Sudan. We can get by with the immigrants from central and south america, too.

But none of that makes Newt's words racist.

It harms their position more than anything else I can think of, short of defending nazis.


Way to go, Mr. Godwin.

Geezer! *pounce hugs* How have you been, old man? I've missed you! Are there any good spam threads lately? :fluffle:

Meh, the spam threads got old. Besides, I've gone back to being more involved in some of the offsite forums. :fluffle:

Way to go, Mr. Godwin.

Contrary to popular belief, saying the word "nazis" does not auto-invalidate entire arguments or "end the thread" and shouting "Godwin" does not constitute anything more than repetition of a nauseating internet meme.

But none of that makes Newt's words racist.

Yes, saying that anything but English is the "language of the ghetto" has no racist implications at all, nope, none.

Contrary to popular belief, saying the word "nazis" does not auto-invalidate entire arguments or "end the thread" and shouting "Godwin" does not constitute anything more than repetition of a nauseating internet meme.

You know who else would have said that? Hitler.

Contrary to popular belief, saying the word "nazis" does not auto-invalidate entire arguments or "end the thread" and shouting "Godwin" does not constitute anything more than repetition of a nauseating internet meme.

But bandying the fascist label about is perfectly fine. Okay. Since that's the way you feel...

You disagreed with me. Suck eggs, you fascist pig!

Wow, that was fun. I can kind see why so many of y'all like to use that as your "argument." :rolleyes:

It's disgusting that anyone is actually stooping to defending these comments too. "Oh he didn't MEAN to say that." Or "It's not racist. Spanish is the ghetto language!"

It harms their position more than anything else I can think of, short of defending nazis.

umm, first off, I think it is a bit extreme to compare what Newt said to Naziism.

Secondly, you can speak English and be poor, and you can speak Spanish and be rich. Duh. Spanish is not the "ghetto language." If that's how you read newt's statement, then I can see why you see it as bigotry (tho it still is not racism). But frankly, I didn't see it that way.

Meh, the spam threads got old. Besides, I've gone back to being more involved in some of the offsite forums. :fluffle:
*sigh* I figured. Hence why I'm here.

Yes, saying that anything but English is the "language of the ghetto" has no racist implications at all, nope, none.

First of all, you distorted his statement; not only did you alter the connotation, but also the scope. He stated that Spanish was the language of the ghetto. However, by saying this, his intent was not to claim that Spanish speakers are poor, but rather to assert that resisting cultural assimilation (ie, refusing to learn English) is a sure path to economic ruin. Furthermore, discrimating against an individual based on language is not racism. So, really, you're wrong on all counts.

But bandying the fascist label about is perfectly fine. Okay. Since that's the way you feel...

You disagreed with me. Suck eggs, you fascist pig!

Wow, that was fun. I can kind see why so many of y'all like to use that as your "argument." :rolleyes:

You seem to continually misrepresent an argument. It is not unreasonable to describe those who support nationalism, anti-immigration, law and order, massive border guards, a unified national culture and authoritarianism as being fascist. It is not a matter of "anyone who disagrees with me is a fascist," and in fact I haven't called anyone a fascist on this thread.

I don't really care to burn your strawmen nor watch you burn them in self-righteous indignation, so kindly present an argument or put my evil, evil self on ignore so your feelings aren't hurt by my unpleasant comparisons.

Yes, saying that anything but English is the "language of the ghetto" has no racist implications at all, nope, none.

Only has racist implications to those who don't realise (or who choose to ignore) that there are white ghettos, black ghettos, Asian ghettos, Latino ghettos, etc. It refers to a socio-economic level, not a race.

Secondly, you can speak English and be poor, and you can speak Spanish and be rich. Duh. Spanish is not the "ghetto language." If that's how you read newt's statement, then I can see why you see it as bigotry (tho it still is not racism). But frankly, I didn't see it that way.
There is no other way to read it.

[quote]In 1995, for example, [Gingrich] said bilingualism poses "long term dangers to the fabric of our nation" and that "allowing bilingualism to continue to grow is very dangerous."/quote]
If Newt isn't a racist, he's a xenophobe at the very least.

umm, first off, I think it is a bit extreme to compare what Newt said to Naziism.

That's why I said, the only way people could demean themselves more than defending Newt's ignorant shit is to defend Nazis.

Secondly, you can speak English and be poor, and you can speak Spanish and be rich. Duh. Spanish is not the "ghetto language." If that's how you read newt's statement, then I can see why you see it as bigotry (tho it still is not racism). But frankly, I didn't see it that way.

He said, "the language of the ghetto." Referring to anything but English. There is no real way to "see" that statement other than what it is.

Only has racist implications to those who don't realise (or who choose to ignore) that there are white ghettos, black ghettos, Asian ghettos, Latino ghettos, etc. It refers to a socio-economic level, not a race.
I'm just going to ignore you now because continuing to read such idiotic and patently ignorant statements is going to cause me to do something that draws mod attention. Keep talking to me if you wish but I won't be responding, or even reading it.

And that still makes Newt, at the least, an elitist asshat.

Yes, saying that anything but English is the "language of the ghetto" has no racist implications at all, nope, none.

First of all, you distorted his statement; not only did you alter the connotation, but also the scope. He stated that Spanish was the language of the ghetto. However, by saying this, his intent was not to claim that Spanish speakers are poor, but rather to assert that resisting cultural assimilation (ie, refusing to learn English) is a sure path to economic ruin. Furthermore, discrimating against an individual based on language is not racism. So, really, you're wrong on all counts.
Thank you for the retort! Saved me the effort. But I'll make one anyway.

It makes him linguicist, if thats even a word, and ignorant, at very worst. But, no it doesn't make his statement racist.

I'm sorry, but I don't see how anyone can get a white collar job in the US without speaking English. That doesn't mean you can't speak Spanish, but you gotta speak english, too. How many non-english speakers do you know of who live and work in the States and could be considered middle class? I've never met any. And please, don't call me racist. Its possible to succeed in this country with a little bit of luck and hard work regardless of your ethnicity. Saying Spanish speakers were less smart, or less hardworking, yeah, that might be racist. But he didn't. He simply said they should learn how to speak English too.

There is no other way to read it.

[quote]In 1995, for example, [Gingrich] said bilingualism poses "long term dangers to the fabric of our nation" and that "allowing bilingualism to continue to grow is very dangerous."/quote]
If Newt isn't a racist, he's a xenophobe at the very least.

Are you familiar with the story of the Tower of Babel? The same logic applies here. If all Americans speak one language, our country is strong; having more languages will only serve to fragment it and weaken it. United we stand -- that's not xenophobia, but rationality.

I guess that's why Hispanic children do so much worse than Caucasian children on standardized English tests; obviously, Hispanic children have mastered both Spanish and English and pass such examinations with flying colors. Oh, wait -- the facts disagree with that charlatan's thesis!

I would like to see a source, por favor.

I'm just going to ignore you now because continuing to read such idiotic and patently ignorant statements is going to cause me to do something that draws mod attention. Keep talking to me if you wish but I won't be responding, or even reading it.


No, you'll be ignoring me, because you haven't got a rational leg to stand on. Instead, you'll keep throwing words like "racist" and such around, hoping that simply using labels will make your arguments true.

I'm sorry, but I don't see how anyone can get a white collar job in the US without speaking English.
Which still doesn't address Newt's xenophobia and intent to destroy bilingual education.

That doesn't mean you can't speak Spanish, but you gotta speak english, too.
Not if you're Newt Gingrich - he wants all bilingual education gone and the removal of any language in America that is not English.

How many non-english speakers do you know of who live and work in the States and could be considered middle class? I've never met any. And please, don't call me racist. Its possible to succeed in this country with a little bit of luck and hard work regardless of your ethnicity. Saying Spanish speakers were less smart, or less hardworking, yeah, that might be racist. But he didn't. He simply said they should learn how to speak English too.
Newt is obviously smart enough not to imply people who don't speak English live in a ghetto. And you should all be smart enough to know that there arn't exactly alot of Spaniards living in America who are known for going around speaking Spanish.


If all Americans speak one language, our country is strong
Only if we don't want to do business with other countries and become economically isolated for xenophobia.

There is no other way to read it.

It's so nice that we can agree on something in NSG. Especially on this subject.

It also amuses me that this English "minute linguistic error" (as FreedomAndGlory is painting it) is one made in favor of knowing the all-important English language. It's like being lectured on the importance of cleanliness by a dirty bum.

That's why I said, the only way people could demean themselves more than defending Newt's ignorant shit is to defend Nazis.

No, your statement right there is the very epitome of ignorance.

He said, "the language of the ghetto." Referring to anything but English. There is no real way to "see" that statement other than what it is.

Yeah, there is. English is the primary language in the US, period. Not speaking or understanding it pretty much locks out the majority of economic opportunities here. You can "see" whatever you like in the remark, and whoa...you already have. You've managed to read your ill-conceived political opinions into it. Nice job.

Thank you for the retort! Saved me the effort. But I'll make one anyway.

It makes him linguicist, if thats even a word, and ignorant, at very worst. But, no it doesn't make his statement racist.

I'm sorry, but I don't see how anyone can get a white collar job in the US without speaking English. That doesn't mean you can't speak Spanish, but you gotta speak english, too. How many non-english speakers do you know of who live and work in the States and could be considered middle class? I've never met any. And please, don't call me racist. Its possible to succeed in this country with a little bit of luck and hard work regardless of your ethnicity. Saying Spanish speakers were less smart, or less hardworking, yeah, that might be racist. But he didn't. He simply said they should learn how to speak English too.
Well, no, he actually said 'instead' and then called the alternative 'the language of the ghetto.'

See, and again, here's the thing: No one, no one is arguing that they shouldn't learn English, that's not the point of contention. What is at stake is the method, on is 'immersive' but leaves children behind in other subjects while they struggle to learn the language and the other covers subjects in the native tongue while the child learns English. This doesn't leave the child behind in other subjects and enforces both languages making the person more flexable and prepared to succeed than if they were stunted during education by dropping one language and forcing that student to deal with new subjects in a new language and hoping they keep up.

Had he contained himself to the idea that the method he's proposing would better accomplish the shared goal of teaching them English so they can function more effeciently in our society, we'd be arguing his policy instead of his words. But he subjegated a language (implied any language but English) as a langauge of the ghetto. That's insulting to the native speakers of that language and shows the character and disposition of the speaker, which is why we argue it here.

No, your statement right there is the very epitome of ignorance.

Oh, well, if you say so, it must be true.

Yeah, there is. English is the primary language in the US, period. Not speaking or understanding it pretty much locks out the majority of economic opportunities here.

Bilingual education is just that - bilingual. I would say equating bilingual education with "not understanding English" is fairly ignorant (though not, surely, the epitome of ignorance. The day isn't up yet and you'll have some more nonsense to post in response to this). And equating bilingual education with "the language of living in the ghetto" goes beyond ignorance and strays into bigotry.

So yeah, people can see this in more than one way. They could see this as proof that reptilian transdimensional aliens are possessing people for their harmonic vibrational energy, for example. You are not nearly that far gone, but a miss is a miss.

You can "see" whatever you like in the remark, and whoa...you already have. You've managed to read your ill-conceived political opinions into it. Nice job.

Nah. I've managed to read. You have managed to defend, beyond all reasonability, the racist statements of a fat racist twat. Wah, it's a "linguistic error." Or wah, it's a deep philosophical comment on the importance of English. Or wah, bad GT is making unpleasant comparisons. Or wah, bad GT is "ignorant." Or wah, evil liberals are smearing a noble man. But, sorry to inform you, whining does not constitute a valid argument.

Mind telling me how learning another language helps you conceptualise the world? I keep hearing it helps in math...How I don't know, I only speak english...SO I wouldn't any of these things.

I only speak one language fluently - English. However, I am aware of the fact that different languages often have entire concepts for which there are no words in English (and vice versa). It is difficult to understand another culture (and to realize how much your individual language affects your view of the world) without at least knowing this. I'm sure that actually being fluent in two languages would make the differences even clearer - particularly if those languages had different roots.


What people are pissed about is Gingrich's assumption that people who speak spanish live in a ghetto. It does a disservice to people like Mr. Mujica who was mentioned upthread. There are many sapnish speaking people in the USA who are very successful. I am sure that they all believe that learning english was necessary, but many would also agree that knowing spanish was also useful.

Not to mention his obvious assumption that immigrants are the only people living in this country who don't speak English.

Not to mention that the bilingual education system makes it easier for children to learn english.

And is a good way for children who know English to learn other languages as well. I'll never understand the xenophobic fear of learning other languages. I would love to be fluent in another language. I wish I'd had more of an opportunity to learn at a young age.

I would like to see a source, por favor.

De nada. Here are the scores of white students in a national reading assessment.

http://nces.ed.gov/nationsreportcard/nrc/reading_math_2005/s0006.asp?subtab_id=Tab_4&tab_id=tab1&printver=#chart

Here are the results for their Hispanic counterparts.

http://nces.ed.gov/nationsreportcard/nrc/reading_math_2005/s0006.asp?subtab_id=Tab_6&tab_id=tab1&printver=#chart

And is a good way for children who know English to learn other languages as well. I'll never understand the xenophobic fear of learning other languages. I would love to be fluent in another language. I wish I'd had more of an opportunity to learn at a young age.

I'm going to a business college, and one thing they will be teaching is Spanish.

I wonder if the business professionals who run the school are aware that they're teaching me the "language of living in the ghetto?" Oh well.

There is no other way to read it.

In 1995, for example, [Gingrich] said bilingualism poses "long term dangers to the fabric of our nation" and that "allowing bilingualism to continue to grow is very dangerous."
If Newt isn't a racist, he's a xenophobe at the very least.


And that still makes Newt, at the least, an elitist asshat.

I never said he wasn't a xenophobe or an elitist asshat. He may be (and probably is) both. But last I checked, those aren't synonyms for racist.

And, frankly, I think what he said in 1995 was wrong. But this is not 1995, and the thread, I thought, was about his statements that "The American people believe English should be the official language of the government. ... We should replace bilingual education with immersion in English so people learn the common language of the country and they learn the language of prosperity, not the language of living in a ghetto,"

As far as I can tell, these statistics are from the 2000 Census (obviously the most recent census):
Poverty. In 1999, 20.2 percent (one in five) of Hispanic families lived below the poverty level compared with a 9.3 percent poverty rate (one in eleven) for the nation's families as a whole, and 5.5 percent (one in eighteen) for non-Hispanic white families. The situation of married-couple Hispanic families is somewhat better, 14.2 percent, but that of female-headed families can only be described as dire: 39 percent live in poverty and among Puerto Ricans, 47.4 percent. It should also be noted that Puerto Rican residents counted include only those living in the fifty states—residents of the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico (3.8 million persons) are not included in the totals for U.S. residents, although all Puerto Ricans are born as U.S. citizens.

As a point of reference, the U.S. poverty thresholds for families of three and four persons were $13,853 and $18,267 respectively in 2001.

Income. The median income (half make more, half make less) of Latino families is approximately 60 percent that of all U.S. families: $32,000 versus $52,000. The same income differential holds for married-couple families: $37,000 versus $59,000. However, the income levels drop dramatically for single-parent families across all groups, especially for female-headed families: $18,700 for Latinos, $23,700 for all U.S. families and $28,600 for non-Hispanic white female-headed families. Special note should be paid to the $15,600 income of female-headed Puerto Rican families. On the other hand, Cuban female-headed families receive almost as much income, $27,100, as do their non-Hispanic white counterparts. In sum, the majority of female-headed Latino families live in poverty or near poverty conditions (as defined by the U.S. government).

In profile, the Latino family is young, poor, and especially in the case of the single-parent family, likely to be living in straitened circumstances. Almost half of Latinos were not born in the United States, with millions having arrived during the last decade. This high volume of immigration is expected to continue. Of course when we speak of the mean income or age, always keep in mind that half of all Latino families exceed the mean. There are many affluent Latinos: doctors, lawyers, skilled craft workers, teachers, executives, and business owners. Latinos as a group have, on the average, low incomes; an individual Latino, however, may have any income, may have lived in North America for fifteen generations, and may still speak Spanish at home.


http://family.jrank.org/pages/774/Hispanic-American-Families-Hispanic-Latino-Families-Demographic-Social-Indices.html

I don't think Newt's statements were any more racist than these statistics.

De nada. Here are the scores of white students in a national reading assessment.

http://nces.ed.gov/nationsreportcard/nrc/reading_math_2005/s0006.asp?subtab_id=Tab_4&tab_id=tab1&printver=#chart

Here are the results for their Hispanic counterparts.

http://nces.ed.gov/nationsreportcard/nrc/reading_math_2005/s0006.asp?subtab_id=Tab_6&tab_id=tab1&printver=#chart

Okay, now separate those students who are involved in immersion programs like Gingrich supports, and compare them to those who went through a bilingual education program like those Gingrich derides.

Do not forget to factor in other variables such as poverty, access to tutors, literacy of parents, etc.

EDIT: Actually, you don't have to worry about it. Seeing as the black students tended to score the same as the hispanic students. Assuming that the black students were born and raised speaking English, while the hispanics weren't, the only thing you could argue is that this study shows no correlation between bilingualism or immersion and reading ability.
Muchas gracias.

Which still doesn't address Newt's xenophobia and intent to destroy bilingual education.
I never said he wasn't xenophobic, and I never said he was right in his intent to destroy bilingual education.


Newt is obviously smart enough not to imply people who don't speak English live in a ghetto. And you should all be smart enough to know that there arn't exactly alot of Spaniards living in America who are known for going around speaking Spanish. I'm not even smart enough to figure out what you mean, Spaniards known for going around speaking Spanish? You mean it should be obvious to me that he meant Spanish is the language spoken by impoverished Latino families living in the ghetto? It was. Forgive the blondeness, but, so what?



Only if we don't want to do business with other countries and become economically isolated for xenophobia.
The way you quoted that implied I had said what you responded to with this. I did not. Please know that.

Well, no, he actually said 'instead' and then called the alternative 'the language of the ghetto.'

See, and again, here's the thing: No one, no one is arguing that they shouldn't learn English, that's not the point of contention. What is at stake is the method, on is 'immersive' but leaves children behind in other subjects while they struggle to learn the language and the other covers subjects in the native tongue while the child learns English. This doesn't leave the child behind in other subjects and enforces both languages making the person more flexable and prepared to succeed than if they were stunted during education by dropping one language and forcing that student to deal with new subjects in a new language and hoping they keep up. Had he contained himself to the idea that the method he's proposing would better accomplish the shared goal of teaching them English so they can function more effeciently in our society, we'd be arguing his policy instead of his words.
OK, so we agree
a) it is important to learn english
b) Newt is probably wrong for thinking that immersion is a better way of teaching it than bilingual education
c) Newt did a poor job of speaking, leaving us to argue his "racist" (or not) comment, and not his policy, on which we agree.


Good.

But he subjegated a language (implied any language but English) as a langauge of the ghetto. That's insulting to the native speakers of that language and shows the character and disposition of the speaker, which is why we argue it here.
I thought it was implied that he just meant Spanish, not any language that isn't English. Ultimately this is a minor point.

But the truth is, new immigrants to the US have traditionally lived in close-knit communities of mostly their nationality or ethnicity (resulting in Little Italies and Chinatowns in cities across the country), and that as new immigrants these people were generally poor (we've all heard the Great American Dream story about the however many greats grandparents who came here with nothing but the clothes on their backs and at most a few bucks in their pockets) and didn't speak "the language" (English). I think it's fair to say most of the people who fit this description lived in ghettos. And we've all heard about how they worked 70 hour weeks in some low class job, but their kids who were born here learned much more fluent English than their parents ever would, and got educations and white collar jobs.

In that scenario, isn't the native tongue that language of the ghetto, and English that language of prosperity? I'll admit it is anecdotal at best, but I don't know anyone who can't think of an example of the anecdote. I don't want to insult native speakers of any language other than English. Foreign languages are beautiful, and I strive to learn phrases in the native tongue of every friend I have (at least the basic hello, goodbye, please, thank you, and such). But in the US, they are the languages of the ghetto.

Not being able to speak English decreases a person's chances to prosper and at the same time, for that reason, increases his chances of living in a ghetto.

I don't think it is controversial to say that among immigrants in the US, those who can't speak English are more likely to live in poverty - "ghettos" - than those who can.

There is nothing racist about this notion at all.

I read Gingrich's speech as saying essentially "if you live in the US and can't speak English, the result of that inability is that whatever language you speak is the 'language of the ghetto,' because in the US English is the language of prosperity and is necessary to become prosperous"

Some of you disagree, and see it as some sort of slur on mexicans, or something, but I don't.

Again, Newt Gingrich has many flaws and demerits, but this speech isn't and shouldn't be one of them.

Not being able to speak English decreases a person's chances to prosper and at the same time, for that reason, increases his chances of living in a ghetto.

Non-English =/= The Language of Living in a Ghetto

And Newt did not say "people who can't speak English" when making his fucktarded statements.

I don't think it is controversial to say that among immigrants in the US, those who can't speak English are more likely to live in poverty - "ghettos" - than those who can.

He didn't say that.

I read Gingrich's speech as saying essentially "if you live in the US and can't speak English, the result of that inability is that whatever language you speak is the 'language of the ghetto,' because in the US English is the language of prosperity and is necessary to become prosperous"

I read it as saying "I am a racist fucktard, and I'll blurt out stupid shit that people will agree with for no other reason than I appeal to their closet bigotry and political bias."

Some of you disagree, and see it as some sort of slur on mexicans, or something, but I don't.

Also, I don't think Hitler really had a problem with Jews. Those comments he made about them in Mein Kampf were just interpreted wrongly by the evil left.

newt clarifies! (http://thinkprogress.org/2007/04/03/gingrich-ghetto-spanish-hebrew/)


COLMES: What do you mean language in the ghetto?

GINGRICH: ...frankly, ghetto, historically had referred as a Jewish reference originally.


i have long held that the fundamental problem in this country was bilingual hebrew/english education, and i applaud newt's brave stand against it. maybe now we will finally achieve some sort of solution to the jewish question.

newt clarifies! (http://thinkprogress.org/2007/04/03/gingrich-ghetto-spanish-hebrew/)

COLMES: What do you mean language in the ghetto?

GINGRICH: ...frankly, ghetto, historically had referred as a Jewish reference originally.


Bwah! Look at him squirm! That fat turd.

i have long held that the fundamental problem in this country was bilingual hebrew/english education, and i applaud newt's brave stand against it. maybe now we will finally achieve some sort of solution to the jewish question.

ba-dum.

Non-English =/= The Language of Living in a Ghetto

And Newt did not say "people who can't speak English" when making his fucktarded statements.



He didn't say that.



I read it as saying "I am a racist fucktard, and I'll blurt out stupid shit that people will agree with for no other reason than I appeal to their closet bigotry and political bias."



Also, I don't think Hitler really had a problem with Jews. Those comments he made about them in Mein Kampf were just interpreted wrongly by the evil left.

You read it one way, other people read it another way.

I don't think you're correct.

You read it one way, other people read it another way.

I don't think you're correct.

I don't see how the way you read it makes sense. He wants to abolish bilingual education, right?

GINGRICH FOR PRESIDENT '08!!

Because SOMEONE has to get the goddamn budget under control.

After reading the transcripts I must agree with Newt, here is what he said:

COLMES: You spoke over the weekend to the National Federation of Republican Women. You’re quoted as having said, The American people believe English should be the official language. And then you went on to say that people should learn the language of the country and not the language of living in a ghetto, referring to Spanish. Is that your definitive comment or was that a misquote? Were you not properly quoted?

GINGRICH: Well, that did not refer to Spanish. The point I made was that we ought to have a program of intensive education so that every person who comes to America learns English as rapidly as possible. And I’ve talked to experts who believe that an intensive program, young people could learn to be relatively fluent in four to six months, and older people could learn in a year.

COLMES: What do you mean language in the ghetto?

GINGRICH: What I meant is very clearly, Alan. I’ll let you pick the right word for me. We should not have a program which traps people into not being able to speak English by failing to teach them the language that is the prominent language of prosperity, the dominant language of government, the dominant language of politics. Now, I’ll let you pick — frankly, ghetto, historically had referred as a Jewish reference originally. I did not mention Hispanics, and I certainly do not want anybody who speaks Spanish to think I’m in any way less than respectful of Spanish or any other language spoken by people who come to the United States.

It is thus obvious he was refering to Hebrew. And it is obviously true that people in this country who speak Hebrew as their first and only language are a serious problem.

Too often our beurocracy has been bogged down by the need to print seperate hebrew ballots. Road signs in Hebrew and English. Our food packaging now comes in both english words and that...little...circle thingy with a U in it.

And it is obvious that the climate of jewish ghettos in this country needs to change. It is true that we jews must get with the program and adopt the "language of prosperity". After all, we make up a whole 2% of the country's population but ONLY 14% of the doctors, 22% of the lawers and 19% of the accountants in this nation are jewish, as well as only 7% of the United States House of Representatives and 14% of the United States Senate. One out of 50 american is jewish, but only one out of 7 doctors is, one out of every 7 senators, one out of four lawyers.

How are we to succeed when our population in the highest and most educated professions in this country is ONLY 8, 10 times higher than our population in the nation as a whole? 12 max

After all, with a college graduation rate that is only slightly less than twice the national average, we truly are economically endangered.

So it's time we jews got with the act here, and embraced the american dream. Just think, we could be mainstream americans if only we made about...35% less on average.

Newt's comments that he didn't mean spanish, and that since ghetto was primarily used as a term for areas for jews, the only rationale one can reach is that he was refering to hebrew/yiddish, and since jews are the only speakers of hebrew/yiddish, we are the ones who need to embrace english to succeed (despite the fact that we speak english, on average, just fine).

The idea that we need to "embrace american prosperity" is ascinine and insulting. As a group, we are better educated, better paid, and have far greater influence in business, medicine, and law.

We fucking ARE american prosperity.

You read it one way, other people read it another way.

I don't think you're correct.

I agree, other people read Hitler differently and I am probably just viciously tearing into a noble man based on linguistic gaffes and my liberal incomprehension of his profound and correct philosophical observations.

I agree, other people read Hitler differently and I am probably just viciously tearing into a noble man based on linguistic gaffes and my liberal incomprehension of his profound and correct philosophical observations.

You think that Hitler and Newt Gingrich are in the same league, apparently, so hey, I'm sure you're right about the other stuff too.

:rolleyes:

You think that Hitler and Newt Gingrich are in the same league, apparently, so hey, I'm sure you're right about the other stuff too.

:rolleyes:

I suppose Hitler wouldn't like bilingual education...

You think that Hitler and Newt Gingrich are in the same league, apparently, so hey, I'm sure you're right about the other stuff too.

:rolleyes:

Same league? No. But there is only one way to interpret Hitler. And same with Gingrich on this issue. The fact that you are choosing to be obtuse on the manner is no more relevant than a neo-nazi apologizing for Hitler.

I suppose Hitler wouldn't like bilingual education...

he was also deeply concerned with getting people out of the ghettos, and definitely didn't want anyone speaking the language of them

Mind telling me how learning another language helps you conceptualise the world? I keep hearing it helps in math...How I don't know, I only speak english...SO I wouldn't any of these things.

A language is a way of expressing a certain culture / society's perception of the world. Language works through concepts expressed as words. Something that we have no word for is difficult to conceive of, for example. And the word (or expression) we use to describe something both expresses and colours our perspective on it (the way we view it).

If you speak two or more languages, you realise that no two languages are equivalent. By which I mean that a different language will be the expression of a different way of viewing something. Which is why it's impossible ever to accurately translate a text of any significant length. You can convey the general meaning, but, by definition, you can never translate it with absolute accuracy.

In other words, if you're monolingual, you'll generally be confined within a single way of viewing the world (or within certain limits, at least). If you're fluent in several languages, the differences between languages make you more aware of the differences in concepts, and other ways of seeing things.

Language is never neutral. It shapes (deforms? limits?) your understanding of reality.

A language is a way of expressing a certain culture / society's perception of the world. Language works through concepts expressed as words. Something that we have no word for is difficult to conceive of, for example. And the word (or expression) we use to describe something both expresses and colours our perspective on it (the way we view it).

If you speak two or more languages, you realise that no two languages are equivalent. By which I mean that a different language will be the expression of a different way of viewing something. Which is why it's impossible ever to accurately translate a text of any significant length. You can convey the general meaning, but, by definition, you can never translate it with absolute accuracy.

In other words, if you're monolingual, you'll generally be confined within a single way of viewing the world (or within certain limits, at least). If you're fluent in several languages, the differences between languages make you more aware of the differences in concepts, and other ways of seeing things.

Language is never neutral. It shapes (deforms? limits?) your understanding of reality.

Well-said. One of my biggest regrets is that I never really learned German beyond what I absolutely had to in school. But what I did learn, profoundly affected the way I think, and the way I think about thinking.

I look forward to learning Spanish within the next year.

"Language of living in the ghetto," indeed. Like Newt Gringich knows what "ghetto" is.

I have changed my mind. Newt used ghetto correctly. A ghetto is simply a section of a city or region where people of the same race, color, creed or language live. And even if this older white american did use the newer slang meaning of ghetto, it can stil be reverse justified using the original meaning.

Weather or not you like Newt or wish him dead, what has always made all of the immigrants "Americans" is that we had a common tongue amongst ourselves. My Grandparents spoke German, Italian, or with an Irish brogue. They all learned to speak better English, not because they had to, but because they wanted to. It's a shame the immigrants of today don't feel the same way.