NationStates Jolt Archive

Has anyone heard about the Plastic Bag Ban....How stupid is that.. This has to do with Al Gore's global warming junk. Why must some tell me how I have to save the ecosystem this propaganda is crap. Their saying that your an "earth killer" if you use plastic bags. The Communist Crap has got to stop... We cant control earth. Thats mother nature's job. And why just this year and 2006 been all about global warming. What about the 90's and early 00's!

I think you should learn to spell San Francisco before you attempt to rag on their very sensible bag idea.

San Fransicko? Is that the straight version of San Francisco?

Has anyone heard about the Plastic Bag Ban....How stupid is that.. This has to do with Al Gore's global warming junk.
No it doesn't, plastic bags do not emit greenhouse gases.

Their saying that your an "earth killer" if you use plastic bags. The Communist Crap has got to stop... We cant control earth. Thats mother nature's job.
No one is saying we should control earth, nor are they calling you an "earth killer", your just making strawmen.

Paper bags decompose faster than plastic. And it uses less oil.

Let's start acting like we are really in an energy crisis.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/2205419.stm
Irish bag tax hailed success

A tax on plastic shopping bags in the Republic of Ireland has cut their use by more than 90% and raised millions of euros in revenue, the government says.

Note the date, 20 August, 2002. Do keep up America.

Has anyone heard about the Plastic Bag Ban....How stupid is that.. This has to do with Al Gore's global warming junk. Why must some tell me how I have to save the ecosystem this propaganda is crap. Their saying that your an "earth killer" if you use plastic bags. The Communist Crap has got to stop... We cant control earth. Thats mother nature's job. And why just this year and 2006 been all about global warming. What about the 90's and early 00's!

I honestly have to hope for your early demise.

It is our job if we caused it. Nature can't cope with everything you lazy...*self-censor*!!!!! It's not that hard to reuse a bunch of goddamn bags.

Paper bags decompose faster than plastic. And it uses less oil.

Let's start acting like we are really in an energy crisis.

I reuse my plastic bags..

and until I see more people taking out their trash with paper bags and not plastic ones...

but then again, I don't drive, I walk or take mass transit... I'm doing my part.

I honestly have to hope for your early demise.

It is our job if we caused it. Nature can't cope with everything you lazy...*self-censor*!!!!! It's not that hard to reuse a bunch of goddamn bags.

Only filthy godless baby eating commies re-use their bags. Real men force their women to use one plastic bag for every item purchased and then discard them in the street(the bags that is, the women are discarded in the alley).

Good. It's about time we started using less plastic. The plastic industry has gotten unnecessarily pervasive anyway.

Note the date, 20 August, 2002. Do keep up America.

2002? Damn, Ireland, we've had fees on plastic bags since... well... as far as I can remember, and I remember the hotness that was Boy George.

I was shocked to find that something as resource wasteful as plastic bags was given away for free in many places in the US. It's stupid beyond belief.

2002? Damn, Ireland, we've had fees on plastic bags since... well... as far as I can remember, and I remember the hotness that was Boy George.

I was shocked to find that something as resource wasteful as plastic bags was given away for free in many places in the US. It's stupid beyond belief.

I'm not really surprised that we weren't the first to do it now that I think of it. In any case, woot for Sweden.

http://cache.boston.com/images/bostondirtdogs//Headline_Archives/panic-button.jpg

The evil communists are eroding away our freedoms to use plastic bags!

The grocery store near here has a policy where you can basically "sell back" intact plastic bags for what I can only assume is recycling, as I doubt they just reuse them. You don't get much cash out of it, but that's not the point.

The Communist Crap has got to stop... We cant control earth. Thats mother nature's job. And why just this year and 2006 been all about global warming. What about the 90's and early 00's!

Because of our Oedipal complex?

Makes you wonder who'll be complaining loudest when the proverbial, environmental shit hits the fan doesn't it?

*Pointed stare at Markiria*

Has anyone heard about the Plastic Bag Ban....How stupid is that.. This has to do with Al Gore's global warming junk. Why must some tell me how I have to save the ecosystem this propaganda is crap. Their saying that your an "earth killer" if you use plastic bags. The Communist Crap has got to stop... We cant control earth. Thats mother nature's job. And why just this year and 2006 been all about global warming. What about the 90's and early 00's!

You're funny.

The grocery store near here has a policy where you can basically "sell back" intact plastic bags for what I can only assume is recycling, as I doubt they just reuse them. You don't get much cash out of it, but that's not the point.

Here you can reuse them and get 2 cents per bag. Up to 20.

"Communist Crap" :confused:

Ah, the commies!

http://img235.imageshack.us/img235/5201/comtempke4.jpg

Its not exactly a secret San Fransicko is one of the most screwed up cities in America.

Its not exactly a secret San Fransicko is one of the most screwed up cities in America.

Because of them goddamn gays?





Please tell me this is not your reason, as I assure you I am being thoroughly sarcastic, and anyone who truly thinks that is a good reason for thinking SF is messed up is just... ugh...

Its not exactly a secret San Fransicko is one of the most screwed up cities in America.

Have you actually been there? Take a look, then go to any east coast city. San Fransisco is a dream compared to, say, Baltimore or WA DC or NYC. The entire east coast is a social and environmental hell hole. Sure some San Fransiscans are a bit out there, but they're nice, often friendly, and care about things. Like, for instance, the fact that wastefully using plastic bags places an undue burden on the biodegradation services nature provides, as well as exposing people near production plants to industrial polutants. Maybe these people give a damn. I know that sounds screwed up to you, but it's the only way to preserve sanity in the long run.

Have you actually been there? Take a look, then go to any east coast city. San Fransisco is a dream compared to, say, Baltimore or WA DC or NYC. The entire east coast is a social and environmental hell hole. Sure some San Fransiscans are a bit out there, but they're nice, often friendly, and care about things. Like, for instance, the fact that wastefully using plastic bags places an undue burden on the biodegradation services nature provides, as well as exposing people near production plants to industrial polutants. Maybe these people give a damn. I know that sounds screwed up to you, but it's the only way to preserve sanity in the long run.

I've been there. It's nice. That Lombard Street's pretty fucked up though.

Its not exactly a secret San Fransicko is one of the most screwed up cities in America.

How come I don't believe a word of this post?

It surely is a mystery...

Didn't using paper bags make you evil tree killers about fifteen years ago? :confused:

I reuse my plastic bags..

and until I see more people taking out their trash with paper bags and not plastic ones...

but then again, I don't drive, I walk or take mass transit... I'm doing my part.

Lots of people do (and if I had access to mass transit, I'd be all over that shit also). The OP is also--not surprisingly--misrepresenting the SF ban. They're not banning them all. They're just planning on forcing local groceries to use biodegradable plastic bags because they already have a massive problem with disposal of waste. They have one of the most comprehensive recycling programs in the US, and this is just an extension of that.

Edit: and I generally bring a couple of canvas bags to the grocery. Amazing how much you can get into one of those.

Didn't using paper bags make you evil tree killers about fifteen years ago? :confused:

yep... which is why use both paper AND plastic.

Has anyone heard about the Plastic Bag Ban....How stupid is that.. This has to do with Al Gore's global warming junk. Why must some tell me how I have to save the ecosystem this propaganda is crap. Their saying that your an "earth killer" if you use plastic bags. The Communist Crap has got to stop... We cant control earth. Thats mother nature's job. And why just this year and 2006 been all about global warming. What about the 90's and early 00's!

Perhaps I should tell you: it has nothing to do with global warming.

It's about litter.

The city has a constant breeze, and, when people litter plastic bags (which invariably occurs in any city), they will blow around and either find their way into the environmentally-sensative bay, the city's abundance of beautiful parks, or, more commonly, get wafted into tunnels and building corners. It's a sad and and disgusting eyesore. I, for one, am quite glad they are doing this. Besides- is it such a hastle to use paper bags?

Isn't it really windy in SF? I could see plastic bags being a problem if they blow in to the ocean or in to drinking water sources, tangling up machinery and posing a threat to wildlife.

Not to mention they don't decompose, which is a problem when landfill and incinerator disposal capacity is as strained as it likely is in the Bay Area. I mean, this seems like it has more to do with pragmatic reasoning than an attempt to combat global warming.

Didn't using paper bags make you evil tree killers about fifteen years ago? :confused:

Using any kind of bag kills something! Stop using bags!

Lots of people do (and if I had access to mass transit, I'd be all over that shit also). The OP is also--not surprisingly--misrepresenting the SF ban. They're not banning them all. They're just planning on forcing local groceries to use biodegradable plastic bags because they already have a massive problem with disposal of waste. They have one of the most comprehensive recycling programs in the US, and this is just an extension of that.

Edit: and I generally bring a couple of canvas bags to the grocery. Amazing how much you can get into one of those.

*nod* I use big old tote bags sold at the grocery (a buck a piece, what a steal!), and "freezer bags" for things I need cold.

Plastic bags they give are thin and crappy anyhow -- they need to be doubled or they'll split before you get them home.

*nod* I use big old tote bags sold at the grocery (a buck a piece, what a steal!), and "freezer bags" for things I need cold.

Plastic bags they give are thin and crappy anyhow -- they need to be doubled or they'll split before you get them home.

The handles on plastic bags cut into your hands too.
*carried alcohol for ~6 people over a 25 min walk*
Ouch.

Has anyone heard about the Plastic Bag Ban....How stupid is that.. This has to do with Al Gore's global warming junk. Why must some tell me how I have to save the ecosystem this propaganda is crap. Their saying that your an "earth killer" if you use plastic bags. The Communist Crap has got to stop... We cant control earth. Thats mother nature's job. And why just this year and 2006 been all about global warming. What about the 90's and early 00's!

I don't care...I always get paper bags when I buy groceries because they double as halfway decent garbage bags that are big enough so they don't need to be replaced three times a day.

Didn't using paper bags make you evil tree killers about fifteen years ago? :confused:

Was that before or after the "Ice Age" scare? I can't keep track of all these lunatic Goofball trends.

Also want to note that the UN started in San Fransicko.

Paper bags decompose faster than plastic. And it uses less oil.

Let's start acting like we are really in an energy crisis.

Yay, sensible post.

Plastic bags are also much more harmful to wildlife than paper if they are left around.

I am for The City's plastic bag ban.

The only sick one here is the OP.

Only filthy godless baby eating commies re-use their bags. Real men force their women to use one plastic bag for every item purchased and then discard them in the street(the bags that is, the women are discarded in the alley).Made me laugh.

2002? Damn, Ireland, we've had fees on plastic bags since... well... as far as I can remember, and I remember the hotness that was Boy George.

I was shocked to find that something as resource wasteful as plastic bags was given away for free in many places in the US. It's stupid beyond belief.Well, to be fair, the ones given out in the US are sucky flimsy things - you wouldn't really want to pay for those. The ones I remember from Ireland about a decade ago were sucky, flimsy and tiny - you really don't want to pay for those.

Here, they charge for plastic bags in the supermarket (something like 10 cents for smaller ones, 15 cents for bigger ones) and the bags are the sturdy, thicker ones. In department stores, however, your purchases are still bagged without charge.

Of course most people here bring their own bags - it started out with the classic "granola hippie" jute bag in the late 80/early 90s and nowadays everybody has these fabric shopping bags. I must have about 20 of those, they seem to procreate...

So yeah, people just take these bags with them to the supermarket. The only times I buy plastic bags there is when I've forgotten my fabric bags or bought more than fits into them.

Was that before or after the "Ice Age" scare? I can't keep track of all these lunatic Goofball trends.

Also want to note that the UN started in San Fransicko.

Learn to spell.

Made me laugh.

*discards WYTYG in an alley*

Learn to spell.

Idiot.

Of course most people here bring their own bags - it started out with the classic "granola hippie" jute bag in the late 80/early 90s and nowadays everybody has these fabric shopping bags. I must have about 20 of those, they seem to procreate...

So yeah, people just take these bags with them to the supermarket. The only times I buy plastic bags there is when I've forgotten my fabric bags or bought more than fits into them.

My family usually brings our collection of old paper bags to the store. We have about 20 old grocery bags, doubled up, some from the 80's that we keep using. We have two of those cloth bags, which are cool.

My family usually brings our collection of old paper bags to the store. We have about 20 old grocery bags, doubled up, some from the 80's that we keep using. We have two of those cloth bags, which are cool.Wait, you have paper bags that you have been using for 20 years? o.O

Because of our Oedipal complex?

We want to screw Mother Earth?

Idiot.

I'm not the one who apparently can't spell who also makes insulting one word posts.

Also want to note that the UN started in San Fransicko.

And?

Wait, you have paper bags that you have been using for 20 years? o.O

That's right. We keep them in one of our two cloth bags, in the trunk of the car. All nicely folded.

And?

Clearly this means that they're godless heathen commie pagan babykilling pinko hippie peacenik junkie fags. Of course.

*COUGH COUGH*

Hasn't anyone noticed that Markiria incited people to start bitching at eachother and then hasn't returned at all to the thread to defend his position?

That's right. We keep them in one of our two cloth bags, in the trunk of the car. All nicely folded.I'm impressed by the quality of that paper.

...San Fransicko.

:rolleyes: Oh brother...

R - lyeh;12496938']Clearly this means that they're godless heathen commie pagan babykilling pinko hippie peacenik junkie fags. Of course.

Damn, you caught us!

I'm impressed by the quality of that paper.

Well, keeping them in the trunk of the car is a fairly recent thing, since only use that to grocery shop now. When we used both the car and the truck (not at the same time, mind you), we kept them on a shelf on the landing of the basement stairs, which is a cool, dry place. Seems to be good for preserving things. Most of them are Safeway bags.

Damn, you caught us!

Now we have to wonder whether they can actually be heathen, godless, pagan, and communist all at once.

Idiot.

Learn not to flame.

Paper bags are sexier.

R - lyeh;12496969']Now we have to wonder whether they can actually be heathen, godless, pagan, and communist all at once.

Don't forget the gay bit. Not only are we heathen, godless, pagan and communist, but we're also all gay. Every one of us. Even those of us in heterosexual relationships. Did I mention that we also find time to hate America and help terrorists?

Don't forget the gay bit. Not only are we heathen, godless, pagan and communist, but we're also all gay. Every one of us. Even those of us in heterosexual relationships. Did I mention that we also find time to hate America and help terrorists?

And we perform abortions. Lots of them.

R - lyeh;12496920']We want to screw Mother Earth?

... makes one wonder about all the drilling going on... :D

Don't forget the gay bit. Not only are we heathen, godless, pagan and communist, but we're also all gay. Every one of us. Even those of us in heterosexual relationships. Did I mention that we also find time to hate America and help terrorists?

So maybe "San Fransicko" wasn't a typo..

Wait, you have paper bags that you have been using for 20 years? o.O
I have a lot of paper bags that are used as storage as well, and have been used for years.
*COUGH COUGH*

Hasn't anyone noticed that Markiria incited people to start bitching at eachother and then hasn't returned at all to the thread to defend his position?
And never cited an actual story or source on his nonsense.

But meh.

A lot of people here use their own bags, and here is San Francisco.

Either way, there will be no wailing in the streets for the non-degradable plastic bags. We're pretty much cool with it. It seems odd that something like this would make us 'sicko.' Are you really that fucking attached to those weak ass plastic bags? Were you getting some sort of thrill from that 'will the mayo survive the trip home or tear through the bag and break on the ground' game?

Or just being hysterical?

... makes one wonder about all the drilling going on... :D

Someone's gotta drill 'er. I'd imagine she's been lonely ever since Kronus castrated Oranos.

So maybe "San Fransicko" wasn't a typo..

You shouldn't talk, Philly Boy! :p

Someone's gotta drill 'er. I'd imagine she's been lonely ever since Kronus castrated Oranos.

thanks... now when I see those old movie clips showing oil rigs gushing with oil... :D

thanks... now when I see those old movie clips showing oil rigs gushing with oil... :D

You didn't think that before?

You didn't think that before?

not really...


wait tho... then wouldn't the warming actually be just a "hot flash"?

And why just this year and 2006 been all about global warming. What about the 90's and early 00's!
You were not listening.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/2205419.stm

Note the date, 20 August, 2002. Do keep up America.
Probably FF's best policy.

2002? Damn, Ireland, we've had fees on plastic bags since... well... as far as I can remember, and I remember the hotness that was Boy George.
Thanks for reminding us, once again, of Sweden's superiority in yet another matter.

Didn't using paper bags make you evil tree killers about fifteen years ago? :confused:
That's impossible. Trees are replanted constantly. They are renewable, unlike oil. and degradable

Sure some San Fransiscans are a bit out there, but they're nice, often friendly, and care about things.

Yes, they are quite gay.

not really...


wait tho... then wouldn't the warming actually be just a "hot flash"?

She's going through menopause.

She's going through menopause.

So Mother Earth has now become MILF Earth.

I hear she's a bit of a cougar.

*COUGH COUGH*

Hasn't anyone noticed that Markiria incited people to start bitching at eachother and then hasn't returned at all to the thread to defend his position?

Par for the course?

Heaven forfend us commie heathens and our attempts at being practical, I mean...this might come to a shock to some people, but some folks do care about the environment and rather than waste, waste, waste, we actually do things like use REAL shopping bags (Trader Joe's...canvas, nice) rather than plastic shopping bags.

Why did we bother with the stupid things in the first place? Good old fashioned paper bags were sturdy and lasted multiple trips, it must be all that money Dow Petrochemical gives to political campaigns.

No it doesn't, plastic bags do not emit greenhouse gases.


No one is saying we should control earth, nor are they calling you an "earth killer", your just making strawmen.
Their production might...
-----------------------------
Banning plastic bags or encouraging the production of the wheat based plastic bags is a good idea.
Bio-degradable FTW!

Heaven forfend us commie heathens and our attempts at being practical, I mean...this might come to a shock to some people, but some folks do care about the environment and rather than waste, waste, waste, we actually do things like use REAL shopping bags (Trader Joe's...canvas, nice) rather than plastic shopping bags.

Why did we bother with the stupid things in the first place? Good old fashioned paper bags were sturdy and lasted multiple trips, it must be all that money Dow Petrochemical gives to political campaigns.

Ah, I see. Let's go back to the good 'ol paper bags... y'know, the ones we need to chop trees down for. Thanks, but I don't want to get another sermon from Father Gore again. :p

Ah, I see. Let's go back to the good 'ol paper bags... y'know, the ones we need to chop trees down for. Thanks, but I don't want to get another sermon from Father Gore again. :p

Actually, since bag paper isn't particularly high printing quality, it could easily be made from recycled paper. Personally, I think we should just use hemp paper anyway.

Using any kind of bag kills something! Stop using bags!
Some bag usage is necessary????

http://www.houseofchuckles.com/lf/41-0014.jpg

:D

even here in HK, they're (finally) jumped on the 'let's reduce plastic bags' wagon. They now ask if you want plastic bags and take 10c off your bill if you say no.
1st Tuesday of each month, they charge ya $1 for each plastic bag you use (money goes to some charity iirc).
Here, they're extremely bag-happy. wet foods have their own bag each, and are put in a bag seperate to all other goods (same with toiletries and cleaning stuff). Bottled goods are put in two bags for extra strength.
A shopping trip for a couple day's groceries can have me coming back with the equivalent of a bag's worth of stuff fitted into 1/2 dozen bags (if I forget to stop them from their obsessive need to bag each and everything).

I think you should learn to spell San Francisco before you attempt to rag on their very sensible bag idea.

Not to mention "you're" and "they're."

Their production might...

Almost every man-made product known emits greenhouse gases in some form either in production or in (drumroll) transportation.

Ah, I see. Let's go back to the good 'ol paper bags... y'know, the ones we need to chop trees down for. Thanks, but I don't want to get another sermon from Father Gore again. :p

<sigh>

Trees can be replanted, but my point wasn't to go back to paper bags. My point was, use bags that can be reused. :p

His little global warming video is his pity-party and way to earn votes.

"My son died, but I'm not putting useless context into my movie to earn votes!"

"I'm trying to save the world." The American way needs saving from him.

I thought that this thread needed a little context (http://www.worldchanging.com/archives/006402.html) if it was to continue.
The ordinance requires these grocery stores to use either compostable bags, made from corn starch or other vegetable-based materials and containing no petroleum products, or recyclable paper bags containing a minimum of 40 percent post-consumer recycled content.
...
The San Francisco Department of the Environment estimates that currently about 180 million plastic shopping bags are distributed in San Francisco each year. About 774,000 gallons of oil are used to produce this number of shopping bags.

A handy side benefit of the compostable bags is that they can be recycled in the City’s green food compost bins, which will hopefully make it more convenient and appealing for residents to compost their food scraps.

Or... (http://www.canyon-news.com/artman/publish/article_5412.phphttp://www.canyon-news.com/artman/publish/article_5412.php)
It has been estimated that 180 million plastic bags have been thrown into the ocean killing marine life and clogging landfills.
The Plastic Bag Reduction Ordinance, written by Supervisor Ross Mirkarimi and Co., sponsored by six other supervisors, gives major supermarket chains with more than $2 million in annual sales six months to make the switch to biodegradable bags. Pharmacies and retailers with at least five locations have one year. Violators face fines of up to $500.
At a news conference, Mirkarimi handed out canvas shopping bags that read “SF Environment: Our Home. Our City. Our Planet.”
Advocates say biodegradable bags are stronger than conventional plastic bags.
...
A typical plastic bag costs under a penny to produce. Paper bags cost about 5 cents apiece. The newer biodegradable bags which is made from potato starch, each cost 4 to 8 cents. The question is: who will pay the extra cost---the consumers or business? The answer seems to be “Business as usual.” However, it is said that business automatically passes the extra cost on to customers.
...
In San Francisco, the city’s largest supermarket dispense 125 million plastic bags a year which account for 1,400 tons of landfill waste annually. This takes generations to break down.
Assemblyman Lloyd Levine (D-Van Nuys) sponsored a state law that requires retailers to promote recycling with visible in-store recycling bins, reusable bags and education campaigns. The law goes into effect this summer. He said the San Francisco ordinance takes his law one step further.
For years, grocery stores were not interested in getting rid of their plastic bags. Mirkarimi pledged to ban plastic bags when he was elected to the board in 2005. That year, supervisors, led by Mirkarimi, proposed a 17 cent tax on every plastic bag. Stores finally decided to voluntarily cut back in the use of plastic bags.
Or... (http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/01/weekinreview/01basics.html?em&ex=1175486400&en=c02b669b6248c075&ei=5087%0A)
The paper-or-plastic question has long been a vexing one. Paper bags, of course, are biodegradable and recyclable, and are made from trees, a renewable resource. But the production of paper bags generates significantly more air and water pollution; manufacturing and recycling them requires more energy than their plastic cousins do, according to the Environmental Protection Agency.

Paper bags also take up comparatively more space in landfills, where they are slow to degrade, like most everything in a landfill. A study for the American Forest and Paper Association estimated that about seven billion paper bags were used in the United States in 2003.

On the other hand, plastic bags made of polyethylene, which dominate the market, are non-biodegradable and are made from crude oil and natural gas, both nonrenewable resources. They can be recycled, but are mostly discarded.

The E.P.A. estimated that only 5.2 percent of the plastic bags and sacks in the municipal waste stream in 2005 were recycled, compared with 21 percent of paper bags and sacks. And there are also horror stories about animals swallowing them and starving to death.
...
Yet another alternative is to sell consumers reusable bags.

“The paper versus plastics question takes us off the issue, which is consumption,” says Vincent Cobb, who offers reusable bags and containers on the Internet. He admits to using plastic bags, which he calls a “fantastic product,” but not as many as in the past.

“Getting into the habit of bringing your own shopping bag,” he says, “can slash this problem across the board.”
Or... (http://kcbs.com/pages/330570.php?contentType=4&contentId=394009)
Rob Krebs of the American Plastics Council is standing up for plastics bags, which he says are durable, cheap, reusable, recyclable and not made from oil, but natural gas.

"They have taken this and tried to make it an environmental hit on the plastics industry because they feel we represent the oil industry somehow. A lot of people are still operating from the 1960s and don't realize plastics are made out of natural gas," said Krebs.
...
"What they're intending to do is somehow stop the litter that gets into the ocean and gets onto their beaches and gets into the solid waste stream and really that's a behavior problem. That's something that people need to address themselves and it's not going to be effected by a ban because they're going to be using some other product and that other product is going to be littered."

Krebs suggests rather than banning plastic bags, the city should expand recycling centers that will accept the bags for reuse.
Or... (http://www.livescience.com/environment/070328_ap_plasticbag_ban.html)
The 50 grocery stores that would be most affected by the law argued that the ban was not reasonable because plastic bags made of corn byproducts are a relatively new, expensive and untested product. Some said they might offer only paper bags at checkout.



“I think what grocers will do now that this has passed is, they will review all their options and decide what they think works best for them economically,'' said David Heylen, a spokesman for the California Grocers Association.

...

Craig Noble, a spokesman for the Natural Resources Defense Council, said it would be disappointing if grocers rejected the biodegradable plastic bag option, since more trees would have to be cut down if paper bag use increases.



The new breed of bags “offers consumers a way out of a false choice, a way out of the paper or plastic dilemma,'' Noble said.

Now we have context. Probably about the time this thread dies...

I thought that this thread needed a little context (http://www.worldchanging.com/archives/006402.html) if it was to continue.


Or... (http://www.canyon-news.com/artman/publish/article_5412.phphttp://www.canyon-news.com/artman/publish/article_5412.php)

Or... (http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/01/weekinreview/01basics.html?em&ex=1175486400&en=c02b669b6248c075&ei=5087%0A)

Or... (http://kcbs.com/pages/330570.php?contentType=4&contentId=394009)

Or... (http://www.livescience.com/environment/070328_ap_plasticbag_ban.html)


Now we have context. Probably about the time this thread dies...Probably.


Oh, and: Rob Krebs of the American Plastics Council is standing up for plastics bags, which he says are durable, cheap, reusable, recyclable and not made from oil, but natural gas.

"They have taken this and tried to make it an environmental hit on the plastics industry because they feel we represent the oil industry somehow. A lot of people are still operating from the 1960s and don't realize plastics are made out of natural gas," said Krebs.
Do I want to know how on earth one makes plastic out of natural gas?

That's impossible. Trees are replanted constantly. They are renewable, unlike oil. and degradable

How dare you degrade those trees? They're doing the best they can!

Probably.


Oh, and:
Do I want to know how on earth one makes plastic out of natural gas?

Apparently all you need is ethene- (http://pubs.acs.org/cen/whatstuff/stuff/8238plasticbags.html)
Petroleum and natural gas are the primary sources of the key ingredients in plastic.

Plastics are composed of polymers--large molecules consisting of repeating units called monomers. In the case of plastic bags, the repeating units are ethylene, or ethene. When ethylene molecules are polymerized to form polyethylene, they form long chains of carbon atoms in which each carbon also is bonded to two hydrogen atoms.

I don't know if that answers anything, though...

Apparently all you need is ethene- (http://pubs.acs.org/cen/whatstuff/stuff/8238plasticbags.html)


I don't know if that answers anything, though...Wow. Chemistry really is pretty cool. Now if only I could understand it, too.

Wow. Chemistry really is pretty cool. Now if only I could understand it, too.

I had the exact same reaction ;p

I originally read the first sentence as plastic bag man. I am disappointed. I was looking forward to a topic on some whack-job running around SF wearing nothing but plastic bags.


Damn. Maybe next time.

I originally read the first sentence as plastic bag man. I am disappointed. I was looking forward to a topic on some whack-job running around SF wearing nothing but plastic bags.


Damn. Maybe next time.

That wouldn't make the news here.

That wouldn't make the news here.

Well no. Not in and of itself. I figured he was doing something news worthy. Like chasing people down with a knife.

Well no. Not in and of itself. I figured he was doing something news worthy. Like chasing people down with a knife.

That might get him a passing mention in the Examiner, but not much else. ;)

That might get him a passing mention in the Examiner, but not much else. ;)

The Examiner was discontinued. Maybe it would get a mention in the Bay Guardian or the East Bay Express.

Perhaps I should tell you: it has nothing to do with global warming.

It's about litter.

Good, then instead of banning plastic bags, we should crack down on littering.

Good, then instead of banning plastic bags, we should crack down on littering.

They should do both.

They should do both.

Why?

When will the world learn to dump its trash into lava flows so then it becomes fertile ash?;)

Why?

Because plastic bags use oil to make. We're running out of oil. Banning plastic bags will cut down on oil use. Make sense?

Because plastic bags use oil to make. We're running out of oil. Banning plastic bags will cut down on oil use. Make sense?

They're also often deadly to wildlife when discarded.

They're also often deadly to wildlife when discarded.

They also never, ever, decompose. They're not all that good, really.

And why just this year and 2006 been all about global warming. What about the 90's and early 00's!
what about the 90s? the 90s = Captain Planet.

Captain Planet = teh win (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zTg6qM-hRNg&mode=related&search=)

EDIT And the theme in German (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lYBblsw0rcI&mode=related&search=) is absolutely priceless

what about the 90s? the 90s = Captain Planet.

Captain Planet = teh win (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zTg6qM-hRNg&mode=related&search=)
This one is better (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QYFu__Q9ASU) :D

HOORAY!

Today, the plastic shopping bags, tomorrow, all the useless and FUCKING IMPOSSIBLE TO OPEN plastic PACKAGING.

His little global warming video is his pity-party and way to earn votes.

"My son died, but I'm not putting useless context into my movie to earn votes!"

"I'm trying to save the world." The American way needs saving from him.

His son didn't die. Another person who criticises a movie he's never even seen.

Because plastic bags use oil to make. We're running out of oil. Banning plastic bags will cut down on oil use. Make sense?

Yes, thanks.

Note that I was not disagreeing, just merely curious.

I think it's a good idea. Serbia (or the Balkans in general) doesn't like to think of anything outside the Balkans (so the rest of the world) so global warming and general environmental damage isn't happening here *shifty eyes*

We recycle all glass bottles. If you buy a beer you have to take the bottle back to the store, otherwise you're paying double for your next one.

Now THAT'S an incentive....

so global warming and general environmental damage isn't happening here *shifty eyes*
*moves to the Balkans*
Can I crash on your couch?

Has anyone heard about the Plastic Bag Ban....How stupid is that.. This has to do with Al Gore's global warming junk. Why must some tell me how I have to save the ecosystem this propaganda is crap. Their saying that your an "earth killer" if you use plastic bags. The Communist Crap has got to stop... We cant control earth. Thats mother nature's job. And why just this year and 2006 been all about global warming. What about the 90's and early 00's!

In many countries, one takes one's own bags to the grocer. Many grocers in the US will give a credit if you bring your own.

In many countries, one takes one's own bags to the grocer. Many grocers in the US will give a credit if you bring your own.

I generally do it. My g/f and I just got back from the grocery and fit the majority into 2 canvas bags. We wound up with two plastic ones as well because we bought more than normal, but by comparison, we would have gotten at least 15 bags otherwise, simply because they don't put more than 3-4 items into each plastic bag, and if there's any weight at all, they double bag so it won't split. No credit for bringing your own, though.