NationStates Jolt Archive

!~!I was born on October 6th 1990, so I love the 90’s. It reminds me of when a walk man was the best, Nintendo ruled the gaming world, and a windbreaker came in bright colors. I think the 90’s were way better then now and on.

Oh, and there were no frikin MP3players!:( :( :(

Bah. The 80s totally pwn the 90s. Want proof? Just watch "Transformers: the Movie" (the animated one from '86, not this new live-action garbage)

Bah the 80s was where it was at.

80s! (http://youtube.com/watch?v=p1S3JCknQJ4)

This message I send to all NSers born in the 80s.

Nah, the 2000's are the best decade so far. Web 2.0/3.0, massively powerful personal computers, amazing new computer games, fiber optic communications spanning the globe, amazing advances in medicine, neuroprosthetics, humanoid robots, nanotechnology, alternative energy...

And I'm looking forward to the 2010's with even more excitement. The upward slope has begun in full force.

1. The 90's blew. Everything cool was invented after 2000. Everyone knows that.
2. The only thing you actually liked about the 90's was the sick-ass kids shows. That does not make up for all the reasons the 90's blew.
3. You were born in 1990? So, you barely reached social conciousness by the time the 90's ended?

Face it, you were not 'a 90's kid'. You would have had to been born in the mid eighties to have been a 90's kid.

People born in the 90's... that's crazy talk. That was like.... oh shit...

I'm getting old!

Face it, you were not 'a 90's kid'. You would have had to been born in the mid eighties to have been a 90's kid.

I was born in early 88, which puts me on the tail end of the 90's generation.

I was born in early 88, which puts me on the tail end of the 90's generation.

Midlate 80's? The late 90's is what everyone raved about anyways. From what I'm getting, the early 90's was just a crappy overdone clone of the 80's.

Not that I would know, that's just a crappy assumption.

I was born in early 88, which puts me on the tail end of the 90's generation.

I was born in October 1988! hoorah.

Dude, you were 10 when the 1990s ended. You're too younf to be a 90's person.

He is a wannabe 90's kid.

Nah, the 2000's are the best decade so far. Web 2.0/3.0, massively powerful personal computers, amazing new computer games, fiber optic communications spanning the globe, amazing advances in medicine, neuroprosthetics, humanoid robots, nanotechnology, alternative energy...

And I'm looking forward to the 2010's with even more excitement. The upward slope has begun in full force.

this is why the 2000's suck balls from old Walrus's. every one is a shut in or to high to relize what the F#$% the gov. is doing.

!~!I was born on October 6th 1990, so I love the 90’s. It reminds me of when a walk man was the best, Nintendo ruled the gaming world, and a windbreaker came in bright colors. I think the 90’s were way better then now and on.

Oh, and there were no frikin MP3players!:( :( :(

I was born in 1993, but that doesn't make me a nineties kid. What's the difference between one decade and another? :confused: They're all just years to me.

I was born in 1993, but that doesn't make me a nineties kid. What's the difference between one decade and another? :confused: They're all just years to me.

Ahh young grasshopper you have much to learn....

Bah the 80s was where it was at.

80s! (http://youtube.com/watch?v=p1S3JCknQJ4)

This message I send to all NSers born in the 80s.

Here here! The 80s were the best.

this is why the 2000's suck balls from old Walrus's. every one is a shut in or to high to relize what the F#$% the gov. is doing.

Personally, I think we're less shut in because the internet lets us communicate with people and plan things in advance. I've been able to talk to IRL friends and plan things, reunite with people that I lost contact with years ago, and I've met a lot of cool people online that I would have never encountered IRL.

But then again, I also have a powerfully optimistic view of technology and human-technological integration, so that probably colors my judgement.

I was born in October 1988! hoorah.

Yay! Vetalia, Londim and me are birth year bro's!

!~!I was born on October 6th 1990, so I love the 90’s. It reminds me of when a walk man was the best, Nintendo ruled the gaming world, and a windbreaker came in bright colors. I think the 90’s were way better then now and on.

Oh, and there were no frikin MP3players!:( :( :(

you're in the 80's man. Diskman were 90's, also Sega pwnd nintendo. and as for windbreakers... if you're talking Members Only... those were mid-late 80's.

Yay! Vetalia, Londim and me are birth year bro's!

We rock bro!

Midlate 80's? The late 90's is what everyone raved about anyways. From what I'm getting, the early 90's was just a crappy overdone clone of the 80's.

Not that I would know, that's just a crappy assumption.

Well, 1990 was a clone of the 80's. Once Smells Like Teen Spirit hit the airwaves in 91', the 90's were something completely different. The only thing that was similar, was that 80's tunes were being recycled as 'retro' in clubs, because early 90's rock (i.e. grunge) had nothing 'clubby' to dance to.

The 90's also really fractured the music scene. You were no longer divided into rock or rap fan. Suddenly, there was a variety of scenes to be into. (Like, everyone listened to the same shit up until then. It was classic rock, glam metal... or MC Hammer.)

The late 90's don't really mean much to me at all. They just kind of blended in with the current decade.

Yay! Vetalia, Londim and me are birth year bro's!

You and my wee brother, too.

Is it wrong that I think somebody born in the early-mid 1990s should still be way young?

I'm 13.

Oh, and timewarp.

I was born in 1993, but that doesn't make me a nineties kid. What's the difference between one decade and another? :confused: They're all just years to me.

Is it wrong that I think somebody born in the early-mid 1990s should still be way young?

Is it wrong that I think somebody born in the early-mid 1990s should still be way young?

No. Not at all.

*denies the passage of time*

The best thing about the 2Ks is that all of the shows that we watched back in the 80s are on DVD now :)

this thread is far too depressing....

bleh

the 80's were the best for wierd music

the 90's were the best for presidential scandals

and the 00's are best for many technologies

I predict the the '10's will be best for chimeras and self driving cars

Bah. The 80s totally pwn the 90s. Want proof? Just watch "Transformers: the Movie" (the animated one from '86, not this new live-action garbage)
The new one will still be cool. It has Hugo Weaving as the voice of Megatron. Just imagine Megatron saying 'Optimus Prime' the same way Agent Smith says 'Mr Anderson' in the Matrix...:D

Dude, you were 10 when the 1990s ended. You're too younf to be a 90's person.
Barely 9 actually.

Jeez. My girlfriend's brother turned 17 earlier this year. He was born after the Simpsons first came on tv! And he's nearly old enough to (legally) drink!

I can't cope with young people growing up.

The best thing about the 2Ks is that all of the shows that we watched back in the 80s are on DVD now :)

This trend better continue for the best 90's shows that I enjoyed so I can watch and sing this again:

Gon click me. You know you want too. (http://youtube.com/watch?v=OfOACVCOJsM)

Holy crap!
1. I'm 30 days older than you. :p
2. One of my old friends (who isn't a friend anymore...) has the same birthday as you.
3. I agree for the most part.
4. You forgot no Cell Phones...well not as widely used as they are today.

1995. Best year ever. And by best I mean best.

Crimpers, sweater ties, stirrup pants, Bon Jovi, and "sike!" rule over anything in the 1990's.

I was a 90s kid; born '83. I remember very little. There was bad hair, KISS, the Berlin Wall and news actually mattered. Then came the 90s and CNN 24/7; damn OJ Simpson trial ruined everything.

The 80s were interesting in all aspects, but the 90s were just boring.
Also there was this huge tension in the 80s with the peak of the Cold War when the US abused Europe to deploy their nuclear WMDs. And then the huge changes when the socialist/communist regimes of eastern Europe broke down. But after the Soviet Union fell apart, the tension was gone and the rest of the 90s were terribly quiet.

I was born in early 88, which puts me on the tail end of the 90's generation.
What? You're only 19 years old? You're a fucking genius!

I'm from April 1986.

Crimpers, sweater ties, stirrup pants, Bon Jovi, and "sike!" rule over anything in the 1990's.


lol


don't forget "moded!"

My wife an I use it frequently now

I was born in 1967 (I'm old, I know) and I'm here to tell you the 80's make the 90's look like a bad joke.

I was born in 1967 (I'm old, I know) and I'm here to tell you the 80's make the 90's look like a bad joke.

Youngster...but I second your sentiments ;)

Youngster...but I second your sentiments ;)

Thanks granpa. :p

Hair Metal, and rap when it was still cool. Nuff said.

People born in the 90's... that's crazy talk. That was like.... oh shit...

I'm getting old!.. Some of us feels much the same about people born in the 80s.

Now where the hell's the nurse with my spongebath?

Thanks granpa. :p

Hair Metal, and rap when it was still cool. Nuff said.

Oh...not grandpa mind! I was born a year earlier than you ;)

Oh...not grandpa mind! I was born a year earlier than you ;)

Just making a smartass comeback to the "youngster" comment. Not to many people here that much older than I.

Bah. The 80s totally pwn the 90s. Want proof? Just watch "Transformers: the Movie" (the animated one from '86, not this new live-action garbage)

It's true! In what other film could you have the grand combination of Orson Welles, Leonard Nimoy, and Frank Welker?

the 90s where when Bush sr tried dick waving in Iraq but couldn't, right?

Jeez, this thread is making me (in 20's) feel old.

The new one will still be cool.

No, it won't. I read a leaked copy of the script, and it is made of suck.

It has Hugo Weaving as the voice of Megatron.

That would be fantastic if Megatron had more than about five words of dialog.

This trend better continue for the best 90's shows that I enjoyed so I can watch and sing this again:

Gon click me. You know you want too. (http://youtube.com/watch?v=OfOACVCOJsM)

Power Rangers is already on DVD, though it's just a collection of random episodes (from several of the shows) and not a full-season boxset.

It's true! In what other film could you have the grand combination of Orson Welles, Leonard Nimoy, and Frank Welker?

I was so happy that Megatron managed to outlive Optimus in that movie.

Optimus was a wishy-washy goody goody two shoes. Megatron was the most evil and badass transformin' robot ever.

Optimus was a wishy-washy goody goody two shoes.

Except for that one scene where he says "Megatron must be stopped, no matter the cost" and then fucks everybody up :)

People born in the 90's... that's crazy talk. That was like.... oh shit...

I'm getting old!

heh! that was exactly my train of thought!

even my little sister was born in the eighties and shes a child. well i still think she is anyway.

This trend better continue for the best 90's shows that I enjoyed so I can watch and sing this again:

Gon click me. You know you want too. (http://youtube.com/watch?v=OfOACVCOJsM)

*Gags*

Much better... (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HJlILHWogR8)

Much... Much better (http://www.supersentai.com/database/1992_zyuranger/index.html)


damn, I miss those shows...

Except for that one scene where he says "Megatron must be stopped, no matter the cost" and then fucks everybody up :)

I know! That was one of the most awesome scenes ever! He takes out Dirge, Thrust, Thundercracker, Soundwave... Blitzwing jumps out of the way. Starscream, nowhere to be found of course.

It was, for me, one of the only times Prime seemed really cool. For an Autobot. I'm an avowed Decepticon. :)

I'm an avowed Decepticon. :)

How could anyone not be? They turned into cool stuff like jets and tanks!

Soundwave was the best. He was supposed to be the communications expert, but he had the most incomprehensible voice out of all of them.

I'm affiliated with the Autobots because I believe all that silly nonsense about freedom and justice, whereas the Decepticons are mostly interested in enslaving or exterminating my species.

I was born in '87. I dont remember the 80's (Clearly, that is. Vauge memories of my grandparents house and such), but Im fairly sure they were better than the 90's.
Besides, if you think MP3/Ipods/whatever are bad, you CLEARLY have never experienced sitting on a bus with some idiot blasting whatever he happens to like over a boombo-...excuse me, STEREO.

The thing I possibly miss most about the 90's would be the big 1'x6" video game boxes. Why? Manuals. You cant fit a decent manual into these crappy DVD cases.
Anybody remember the Warcraft II manual? THAT was a good manual.

I'm affiliated with the Autobots because I believe all that silly nonsense about freedom and justice, whereas the Decepticons are mostly interested in enslaving or exterminating my species.

It was two factions of giant robots fighting each other over sugar cubes. Where did freedom and justice come into it?

.. Some of us feels much the same about people born in the 80s.

Now where the hell's the nurse with my spongebath?

Born in the 70's here. But I hear ya.

the 90s where when Bush sr tried dick waving in Iraq but couldn't, right?

Bush Sr. had no problem waving the dick. He just knew better than to fully insert the tip. (The whore of Babylon be dirty dirty.)

I hate the 90's. I am glad I will never go through them again.

Bush Sr. had no problem waving the dick. He just knew better than to fully insert the tip. (The whore of Babylon be dirty dirty.)

Great analogy...:rolleyes:

I hate the 90's. I am glad I will never go through them again.

The 90's, or just your personal experiences during the 90's?

I can see why someone might like another decade better than another, but what was so bad about the 90's?

Let's see;

- Rapid advancement in home computers and the rise of the internet (and porn drastically improved as a result.)

- Animation gained more acceptance and popularity. Suddenly animated shows such as the Simpsons (and the many shows that followed it) became prime-time material. Japanese animation began to gain acceptance in North America.

- Music changed exponentially. You didn't have to listen to dad's rock music to enjoy it anymore. Grunge, a re-emergence of punk, techno, and the rise of hip-hop and rap into mainstream popularity. Like it or leave it, there was now a plethora of music to listen to.

- Video games changed from little dudes jumping over barrels thrown by monkeys to much more involved games ranging from Doom to Civilizations and on and on.

- Comic books became grittier and aimed at older audiences. Graphic Novels became an acceptable form of art.

I could go on, but I guess I'm trying to figure out what was bad about it. People may find the 80's more fun, or the current decade more advanced, but overall the 90's were a pretty eclectic time.

People born in the 90's... that's crazy talk. That was like.... oh shit...

I'm getting old!

/me lets Mikesburg share her walker.

Bah. The 80s totally pwn the 90s. Want proof? Just watch "Transformers: the Movie" (the animated one from '86, not this new live-action garbage)

That movie sucked, it was way too harsh, Iron Hide and countless other Autobots died, and it had swearing.

Sorry, swearing and realism doesn't go well with Transformers.

/me lets Mikesburg share her walker.

Kat... if you're old, then I'm posting from the grave... and I know that's not true... Damn whippersnappers... no respect... why when I was your age... :D

That movie sucked, it was way too harsh, Iron Hide and countless other Autobots died, and it had swearing.

Sorry, swearing and realism doesn't go well with Transformers.

yeah... they killed off my favorite Autobot... Prowl!

Kat... if you're old, then I'm posting from the grave... and I know that's not true... Damn whippersnappers... no respect... why when I was your age... :D

Star Trek: The Original Series was on the air in my lifetime -- and not in syndication. ;)

the 90's were a brief little respite for the globe from Communism into Global terrorism...

oh nd btw 1991-er over right over here! :D

/me lets Mikesburg share her walker.

Two can lift the walker better than one! Thanks!

Star Trek: The Original Series was on the air in my lifetime -- and not in syndication. ;)

Oh...

Here, you take the walker. You need it more... ;)

It was two factions of giant robots fighting each other over sugar cubes. Where did freedom and justice come into it?

Whenever Optimus Prime pussed out about human casualties.

oh nd btw 1991-er over right over here! :D

That boggles my mind. My mind is boggled. I was walking through the mall amazed at how 'Smells Like Teen Spirit' was getting airplay EVERYWHERE while you were being born.

It really doesn't seem that long ago.

That movie sucked, it was way too harsh, Iron Hide and countless other Autobots died, and it had swearing.

But that's what made it so awesome! It was Transformers with balls.

Star Trek: The Original Series was on the air in my lifetime -- and not in syndication. ;)

... yes... ok, while I didn't watch it then, i was more intersted in Ultra 7 (http://imdb.com/title/tt0184169/) which was being shown on our Japanse-baised station ;)

I was born in late 1971.

Lets see here - one of my first memories that I can actually recall that is ... culturally significant is seeing all the disco red-white-and-blue bell bottoms and glitterazzi out and about on July 4 1976 - yes... I was 5 - ok, 5 1/2 - but somehow that must have impressed the hell outta me as a little kid.

I remember when the space shuttle Enterprise (yes, ENTERPRISE) was rolled out in 1977. Hell, even then, I was a space geek. I also remember when it was retired to the Smithsonian (not far from where I live) but somehow that paled in comparison.

I remember when the REAL first Star Wars movie came out in 1977. I remember a load of action figures and cheap plastic models shortly thereafter. That was the first in a long line of cheap plastic models and action figures.

I remember when John Lennon was shot - it was 6 days after my birthday in 1980 (ok, that tells you when I was born). What a way to start the decade? That's REALLY when the 60's and 70's died as far as I'm concerned.

Same time - I remember the iranian hostage crisis, though I probably didn't understand much of it at the time. I remember it particularly because when they tried a stupid ill-fated military rescue I was on a "camping" trip with my uncle and dad to western MD and the only thing I had to listen to was a radio with the news. Otherwise, it was primitive as can be.

I still remember a schoolgirl's letter to Yuri Andropov in 1982 - I still remember some of that letter, and his answer and invitation to visit the USSR and an early, if short lived thaw towards the end of the winter of the cold war - and then her death a few years later in a plane crash. It is a choice, but sad, irony that a monument set up in Moscow was stolen in 2003 for scrap. There's a truth there somewhere, if anyone is interested in looking for it.

I remember sitting in a classroom watching, af first in anticipation, and then in horror as the shuttle Challenger blew itself to smithereens a little more than a minute after its launch, and that the entire day in school after that was silent - like the song says, not a word was spoken, the church bells all were broken. 1986, the year space became dangerous again.

Later, I remember the fall of The Wall in Berlin. The parties were still going on the following year when I moved to England. That would be 1990.

All parties have to come to an end...

I remember Desert Shield and Desert Storm - living on a base overseas where you had friends who shipped to and - most of the time - back from Iraq and Kuwait, it was hard to avoid. I even have a commemorative mug - a momento of my service to the USA, even if it was as a civilian, overseas.

I remember buying an Amiga 2000 computer around the same time. Wow, I thought that was the way to go... *sigh* And now, here I am on my laptop running Windows Vista. Ok, Bill Gates either IS god, or made a deal with the devil after all. You decide.

Speaking of that, I remember Windows 95 and the introduction of the mathematically deficient Pentium... I knew there was something I was trying to forget. I have to admit, the best thing about Windows then was that neat pinball game and the Wheezer music video you got with it.

I remember getting a nice internet shell account when I got back and went back to school (University of MD, go TERPS!) in 96. Man, does ANYONE else here remember GOPHER in a Unix shell account and compiling SLiRP so you can use this neat new PPP connection and run a real web browser like NSCA Mosaic? Cool stuff.

I remember Bill Clinton being impeached for lying about not having sex with "that woman" when not being honest about his sex life was the best Ken Starr could come up with to go after him about when he found he couldn't pin a real-estate scandal on him. Go teflon Bill. This would be 1998.

I remember the world NOT coming to an end January 1, 2000 when all those computers didn't just croak because they had to deal with a year ending in 00.

I'll never forget 9/11/01. Sorry, that's burned into my brain for good, as it is for so many people. I'll remember seeing a few names I knew on the casualty lists when they were still being put together. If there's any one moment of panic about the sky falling in my life, so far, that's it. I hope that's the only one there'll ever be - but I know life know too well by now to believe that.

I'll never forget meeting the love of my life and the woman I'll marry shortly after that... but that's a memory for us and not for you.

I remember the US invading Afghanistan, and while I'll never shed any tears for the Taliban and Al-Quaeda, I also remember that I had a sense of history and could just imagine all the Russians remembering their history there and shaking their heads sadly.

I remember more than 100 children killed a year later in a theater in Russia while being held hostage by terrorists in 2002. History repeats itself, I know, but this was fast.

I remember George W Bush leading the US into Iraq first claiming there were weapons of mass destruction - then when that was said to be a lie, claiming that we were doing this for the best of the Iraqi people. I expect his next claim will be that the voices told him to do it. That is most likely the honest answer. BTW - one of my PROUDEST memories is that I *didn't* vote for him EITHER time.

I remember writing this post for you all, to show everyone that arguing a time is better than another is pointless. Things change, but they don't. Look for the worst in a time and it will be the worst of times. Look for the best, and it'll be the best of times. This is true for all times.

I wonder what I'll remember tomorrow?

I wonder what I'll remember tomorrow?
To pick up Megamillions tickets? :D

I remember George W Bush leading the US into Iraq first claiming there were weapons of mass destruction - then when that was said to be a lie,

Not true.

http://patdollard.com/2007/03/07/democrat-hypocrisy-on-iraq

Enjoy.

Well, 1990 was a clone of the 80's. Once Smells Like Teen Spirit hit the airwaves in 91', the 90's were something completely different. The only thing that was similar, was that 80's tunes were being recycled as 'retro' in clubs, because early 90's rock (i.e. grunge) had nothing 'clubby' to dance to.

Indeed. Once grunge became all the rage (in music, fashion, and hygiene) I dropped out of popular culture. As far as I'm concerned, its all been one big blur since. I see little difference between the mid 90s and mid 2000s as far as pop culture goes. But then pop culture isn't meant for adults. Really hasn't been since the 70s. It's a shame there isn't an adult culture anymore.

Indeed. Once grunge became all the rage (in music, fashion, and hygiene) I dropped out of popular culture. As far as I'm concerned, its all been one big blur since. I see little difference between the mid 90s and mid 2000s as far as pop culture goes. But then pop culture isn't meant for adults. Really hasn't been since the 70s. It's a shame there isn't an adult culture anymore.

Whose fault is that, then?

I have reason to believe it's the fault of the adult population, as they don't seem to have any initiative whatsoever to "get out", so to speak. Adults (and I'm talking 30+, here) seem to have relegated themselves to the bar scene, and that's about it.

Really, what's stopping them from forming bands and playing on weekends/holidays? What's stopping them from going on road trips and partying at the beach?

Simply put, it's their problem, not anyone else's. If people are too damn boring and short-sighted to stay interesting past age twenty-nine, then tough shit.

Whose fault is that, then?

Marketing and it's obsession with the 18-25 demographic. Though now they are starting to also focus on the over 60 crowd. Damn baby boomers and the following boomlets. There's so many of you guys, that the rest of society gets the shaft. ;)

Really, what's stopping them from forming bands and playing on weekends/holidays? What's stopping them from going on road trips and partying at the beach?

Um...because that's youth culture. Priorities and interests change as you age. But you'll find that out soon enough. ;) Occasionally some bits of adult culture try to emerge from the mire. There was a bit of hope in the late 90's with the reemergence of cocktail parties and adults wanting to dress and behave like...well...adults.

Anyway, I'm not looking for some great revival in adult culture, but it would at least be nice if 30+ year olds didn't feel like they needed to run around trying desperately to look and behave like teenagers. Seriously, that's just creepy. *shudder as I remember Karl Rove "rapping"*

Simply put, it's their problem, not anyone else's. If people are too damn boring and short-sighted to stay interesting past age twenty-nine, then tough shit.

Come talk to me in 15 years. Like all kids, I thought the exact same things when I was your age. I thought I would always stay current with youth culture. But in the end, it happens to us all when those raging hormones subside a bit.

!~!I was born on October 6th 1990, so I love the 90’s. It reminds me of when a walk man was the best, Nintendo ruled the gaming world, and a windbreaker came in bright colors. I think the 90’s were way better then now and on.

Oh, and there were no frikin MP3players!:( :( :(

You're not even 17 yet and you're already jaded? I could understand it if you were in your 60s or 70s and were whining about how much better the "good old days" were, but you're not old enough to have a "good old days." give it some time and give it a rest.

Jeez, my cat's older than you.

i didn't get the idealistic childhood like the rest of you. I grew up in the awkward between-decade ordeal, where you weren't sure what shows to like or what was cool of anything.

i once watched a movie about cricket involving Imperial Britain and India. It was a lame and corny and I couldn't understand the rules of game, but I know it looked like a lame version of baseball.

I was born before the dawn of time so I lived through it all.:D

You're not even 17 yet and you're already jaded? I could understand it if you were in your 60s or 70s and were whining about how much better the "good old days" were, but you're not old enough to have a "good old days." give it some time and give it a rest.

Jeez, my cat's older than you.Damn. That is an old cat.

So why do you not give it to me and we can have cat fritters.

*Rubs tommy*

I was born in early 88, which puts me on the tail end of the 90's generation.

Aha! I can beat you at age

<------1987 (first 'naked eye supernova', digging the channel tunnel started, first mobile phone call in Aus)

Wait, I'm older. Thats not a good thing...

Damn. That is an old cat.

So why do you not give it to me and we can have cat fritters.

*Rubs tommy*

Because he's smarter than most people.

!~!I was born on October 6th 1990, so I love the 90’s. It reminds me of when a walk man was the best, Nintendo ruled the gaming world, and a windbreaker came in bright colors. I think the 90’s were way better then now and on.

Oh, and there were no frikin MP3players!:( :( :(

seen both 80's lot better then 90's