NationStates Jolt Archive

Well, I haven't enlisted yet. I take my physical on Monday, I believe, and the D-lab on Tuesday, and then I'll DEP in for deployment after my finals. Given my 91 on the Asvab they suggested that I join special forces and so after doing some research I decided to go through with it. If I 'wash out' I get sent to infantry, but I see nothing wrong with that (except that my rank will be horrible, and thus my pay). Nevertheless, I will probably be sent to Fort Benning over the summer. Can any Army personnel or ex-personnel give me an idea of what boot camp will be like?

What is a good way to prepare for it? I already do sit-ups and push-ups everyday, and go the gym Mondays, Wednesdays and Fridays for cardio and to lift weights. I have to run more, that's for sure - on a good week I run ~3 miles Tuesdays and Thursdays (the Fort Bragg site suggests 3-5 miles five days a week).

So, school me!

Run, run and run some more. Other than that, get used to not sleeping much, hiking w/ 30 pounds, and memorize the ranks.

That should basically get you through.

Yea, thank you for reminding me about the hiking. I'm going today with some friends enlisting as Cav Scouts. Any idea what I could put in my backpack to weight it up to 30lbs?

Plus try to get one of those things R P McMurphy got at the end of "One Flew Over..". That should help.

And get some knuckle protecters - stops chaffing when they drag on the ground.

Join the Marines!
Nah but seriously, good for you man!

Yea, thank you for reminding me about the hiking. I'm going today with some friends enlisting as Cav Scouts. Any idea what I could put in my backpack to weight it up to 30lbs?

Some bags of pet food, rock salt, or mixcrete would work.

The new standard is wearing 30lbs of body armor rather than the field pack. If you have them, use those velcro weights that you can put on your arms, legs and waist. If it's legal in your area, safe, and you have one, carry some sort of airsoft gun. It will present a more realistic simulation of a boot road march.

How do they punish people who can't really do the push-ups they ask for in the first few days of PT?

Yea, thank you for reminding me about the hiking. I'm going today with some friends enlisting as Cav Scouts. Any idea what I could put in my backpack to weight it up to 30lbs?

Put in a few of the text books that we need to carry for a typical university semester in a back pack and you'll be set.

Well, I haven't enlisted yet. I take my physical on Monday, I believe, and the D-lab on Tuesday, and then I'll DEP in for deployment after my finals. Given my 91 on the Asvab they suggested that I join special forces and so after doing some research I decided to go through with it. If I 'wash out' I get sent to infantry, but I see nothing wrong with that (except that my rank will be horrible, and thus my pay). Nevertheless, I will probably be sent to Fort Benning over the summer. Can any Army personnel or ex-personnel give me an idea of what boot camp will be like?

What is a good way to prepare for it? I already do sit-ups and push-ups everyday, and go the gym Mondays, Wednesdays and Fridays for cardio and to lift weights. I have to run more, that's for sure - on a good week I run ~3 miles Tuesdays and Thursdays (the Fort Bragg site suggests 3-5 miles five days a week).

So, school me!

You need to pick a primary MOS. You don't have to be infantry. Your recruiters are NOT giving you the whole story. I was an MP and I knew several people who went to SF try-outs. Pick a real MOS you will not be happy as infantry. Not with a 91 on your asvabs. Pick an MOS you will be happy with if you wash out! Counter Intel is fun. Not really applicable to the real world, but neither is infantry. You are too smart for the infantry. If your recuriters are telling you that you cannot try out for SF unless you sign on as infantry they are lieing! Pick an MOS where you can go airborne. Get a duty station assignment IN YOUR CONTRACT. Request Bragg or Benning.

Do not enlist as infantry. That doesn't even guarantee you a try out!

How do they punish people who can't really do the push-ups they ask for in the first few days of PT?

You have a minimum you must do before you leave Reception. You can't leave until you can do those. You get put in a special unit that does nothing but work-out all day. I forget the name.

Run, run and run some more. Other than that, get used to not sleeping much, hiking w/ 30 pounds, and memorize the ranks.

That should basically get you through.

Hehe. True. But depending on one's current condition, the time left to train might not be enough to make that of a difference.


How do they punish people who can't really do the push-ups they ask for in the first few days of PT?

They'll have you do some extra excercise, while your mates have lunch.

Yea, thank you for reminding me about the hiking. I'm going today with some friends enlisting as Cav Scouts. Any idea what I could put in my backpack to weight it up to 30lbs?

30lbs? Try 50- 80lbs. We did a forced road march every other wednesday with 65 lbs minimum.

Same advice I give everyone wanting to join the armed forces. JOIN THE NAVY!

You need to pick a primary MOS. You don't have to be infantry. Your recruiters are NOT giving you the whole story. I was an MP and I knew several people who went to SF try-outs.

I already said in the first page that I'm enlisting as 18X.

How healthy does one have to be to join the armed forces? Could a guy who is quite overweight(at the moment) and has exercise-induced asthma join?

I doubt I ever will, but I figure I might as well examine any and all options available to me...just in case.

How healthy does one have to be to join the armed forces? Could a guy who is quite overweight(at the moment) and has exercise-induced asthma join?

You have to lose the weight.

I already said in the first page that I'm enlisting as 18X.

And if you wash out you end up as infantry. Bad idea. Pick a good MOS, then try out. If you can't make it through the try-outs, you'd never make SF either. It's a bad idea.

You have to lose the weight.

and the athsma.

and the athsma.

Ah, damn it. I can't lose that...it's a permenant condition.

Ah well...if all else fails there's always the Coast Guard...anyway, since you're tossing around terms left and right, what does MOS stand for?

Ah, damn it. I can't lose that...it's a permenant condition.

Ah well...if all else fails there's always the Coast Guard...anyway, since you're tossing around terms left and right, what does MOS stand for?

You mean everyone can't speak military?

Sorry, I forget sometimes that the rest of the world has no idea what these acronyms are. Your MOS is your job. PMOS is the primary job you signed up for.

You mean everyone can't speak military?

Sorry, I forget sometimes that the rest of the world has no idea what these acronyms are. Your MOS is your job. PMOS is the primary job you signed up for.

...of course. I am a fool. MOS stands for Method of Service, or something similiar anyway, thus the P would be, as you said, Primary. See, I should really try actually figuring this stuff out for once...it's not that hard.

So, what's your service history, Snafturi? I love hearing stories from military servicemen, mainly because they do things all the time that I'd be too scared to do.

...of course. I am a fool. MOS stands for Method of Service, or something similiar anyway, thus the P would be, as you said, Primary. See, I should really try actually figuring this stuff out for once...it's not that hard.

So, what's your service history, Snafturi? I love hearing stories from military servicemen, mainly because they do things all the time that I'd be too scared to do.

I did 2 years active. 4 reserve and was deployed once during my reserve time to Kosovo. I was an MP and stationed in Puerto Rico of all places.

Is this a US phenomenon? This fascination with joining the military? I don't really see this sort of thing crop up with posters from other countries.

Another one of those threads? :rolleyes:

Why is it that everytime anybody decides to train to kill people, they make a thread on here, asking for advice and expecting a pat on the shoulder?

Run, run and run some more. Other than that, get used to not sleeping much, hiking w/ 30 pounds, and memorize the ranks.

That should basically get you through.


*sigh* 30 lbs....

In Marine Corps Recruit Depot San Diego, where i went, we had at least 60 lbs in our packs at all times.:sniper:

Is this a US phenomenon? This fascination with joining the military? I don't really see this sort of thing crop up with posters from other countries.

That's because other countries don't have balls. Nor are they as patriotic as we Americans are.

Another one of those threads? :rolleyes:

Why is it that everytime anybody decides to train to kill people, they make a thread on here, asking for advice and expecting a pat on the shoulder?

Oooh boy, training to kill people, how scary!

That's because other countries don't have balls. Nor are they as patriotic as we Americans are.

And you know this how?

Another one of those threads? :rolleyes:

Why is it that everytime anybody decides to train to kill people, they make a thread on here, asking for advice and expecting a pat on the shoulder?

It's a big life changing decision. I also think they want to get all the facts. It's not like these guys can just wander onto a military base and start asking 20 questions to all the soldiers. The first military base I set foot on was a field trip with my recuiter.

Get used to getting shouted at. Get used to being cold a lot (depending on where you are going).

That's because other countries don't have balls. Nor are they as patriotic as we Americans are.

Man, we have a plethora of trolls/puppets popping up all of a sudden.

Oh, and Canada's got big balls
Big ol' balls
Big as grapefruits
Big as pumpkins
Yes sir, yes sir
And on our really good days
They swell to the size of small dogs
Our balls are as big as small dogs
Well, it ain't braggin' if it's true
Yes sir, yes sir
It ain't braggin' if it's true
Muhammed Ali said that
Back when he was a young man
Back when he was Cassius Clay
Before he fought too many fights
And left his brain inside the ring
And sometimes I wish I was Tiger Woods, Tiger Woods, Tiger Woods
Sometimes I wish I was Tiger Woods, Tiger Woods, Tiger Woods

That's because other countries don't have balls. Nor are they as patriotic as we Americans are.

O-kay... so, basically you're saying that people in other countries tend to use their brains for thinking rather than other body parts? You seem to have a pretty poor opinion of your country.

Another one of those threads? :rolleyes:

Why is it that everytime anybody decides to train to kill people, they make a thread on here, asking for advice and expecting a pat on the shoulder?

I've said this before to you, but I'll say it again. Whats wrong with being trained to kill? Also, it's a lot, lot more then that.

I've said this before to you, but I'll say it again. Whats wrong with being trained to kill? Also, it's a lot, lot more then that.

The answer is contained in the question.

It's a big life changing decision. I also think they want to get all the facts. It's not like these guys can just wander onto a military base and start asking 20 questions to all the soldiers. The first military base I set foot on was a field trip with my recuiter.

Well, so was leaving Germany to come to live and work in Ireland. And did you see me make a huge big thread about that? Or any of the others who went to live abroad? Nope, it's always the people with the uniform fetish...

O-kay... so, basically you're saying that people in other countries tend to use their brains for thinking rather than other body parts? You seem to have a pretty poor opinion of your country.

I really love it when these people speak for all of America. :rolleyes:

I got a 13 on my Asvab! :p

Well, so was leaving Germany to come to live and work in Ireland. And did you see me make a huge big thread about that? Or any of the others who went to live abroad? Nope, it's always the people with the uniform fetish...

It really doesn't compare tbh.

I've said this before to you, but I'll say it again. Whats wrong with being trained to kill? Also, it's a lot, lot more then that.

It's not illegal. But why expect people here to give you advice? If I'd ever do something like that I'd hang my head in shame and hope that as few people as possible would ever find out.

The answer is contained in the question.

I've said this before to you, but I'll say it again. Whats wrong with being trained to kill? Also, it's a lot, lot more then that.

O-kay... so, basically you're saying that people in other countries tend to use their brains for thinking rather than other body parts? You seem to have a pretty poor opinion of your country.

I don't really agree with the guy you responded to, but being in the millitary is one of the most mentally challenging things you can do.

It really doesn't compare tbh.

Cause it's less life-changing? :confused:

It's not illegal. But why expect people here to give you advice?


Because there are many people with that sort of experience.


If I'd ever do something like that I'd hang my head in shame and hope that as few people as possible would ever find out.

Why?

Basically, your government is going to close their eyes and throw a dart at a world map and wherever it lands, you have to go there. You then have to try to shoot the people living there before they shoot you.

What more do you need to know?

I don't really agree with the guy you responded to, but being in the millitary is one of the most mentally challenged things you can do.

Fixed.

Cause it's less life-changing? :confused:

In a way.

I got a 13 on my Asvab! :p


You have to work hard to get a score that low. Or come from a Chicago public school.

Well, so was leaving Germany to come to live and work in Ireland. And did you see me make a huge big thread about that? Or any of the others who went to live abroad? Nope, it's always the people with the uniform fetish...

I dunno then. I know I am glad they ask. Recruiters are usually the first/only military contact these kids have. Recruiters lie, and I'd rather them find out some real facts. This guy has been lied to. Unfortuately I think his recruiters have succeeded in the hard- sell. It makes me so angry that these recuiters will tell these kids anything to fill their quotas. /rant.

Well, so was leaving Germany to come to live and work in Ireland. And did you see me make a huge big thread about that?

If you did I wouldn't have minded.

Basically, your government is going to close their eyes and throw a dart at a world map and wherever it lands, you have to go there. You then have to try to shoot the people living there before they shoot you.

What more do you need to know?

Sounds like you've been in the United States military before.

Say, Macabees, what happened to the Modern War Studies site?

P.S. This is Blizrun.

I did 2 years active. 4 reserve and was deployed once during my reserve time to Kosovo. I was an MP and stationed in Puerto Rico of all places.
Ah. Neat.

Is this a US phenomenon? This fascination with joining the military? I don't really see this sort of thing crop up with posters from other countries.
It's what the U.S. gets for being such a patriotic nation. We're obsessed with the military so much that even pacifists like me respect the military.

Another one of those threads? :rolleyes:

Why is it that everytime anybody decides to train to kill people, they make a thread on here, asking for advice and expecting a pat on the shoulder?
Because the military isn't just about killing people. The military is used for much more than that, really. I'd really prefer it if the military were turned into a defense/aid force rather than what we typically consider a military. By that I mean a force that both defends the nation and helps out those in need.

I don't really agree with the guy you responded to, but being in the millitary is one of the most mentally challenging things you can do.

http://www.reloaded.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/hysterical.gif

Try living in a country where people speak a language you only partially understand and speak badly, doing a job you've never done before with next to no training at all, barely making a living.

Fixed.

Calling the army retarded, not a good move.

http://www.reloaded.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/hysterical.gif

Try living in a country where people speak a language you only partially understand and speak badly, doing a job you've never done before with next to no training at all, barely making a living.

Still doesn't compare.

Calling the army retarded, not a good move.

Oh no. The army's going to get me. Help, someone.

run more with 60 extra pounds on you

Still doesn't compare.

Nope. The army is easier. You know you'll get paid, you know when you'll get paid, they speak your language, and they organise your work life for you.

Oh no. The army's going to get me. Help, someone.

No but that is a very biggoted and offensive thing to say.

No but that is a very biggoted and offensive thing to say.

Says the man who dismisses other life changing events as not nearly as important as joining the army.

You know what's offensive? Not seeing a problem with being trained to kill other human beings....and further...GLORIFYING it.

Oh no. The army's going to get me. Help, someone.

Oh stop it. :p

Cabra West: You're right...your experience was quite challenging indeed. Still...have you ever seen a real combat situation? Do you know what goes on in the head of a person during such a combat situation? Do you realize how many of us would just up and run away in a heartbeat because we'd be so scared that we'd be leaving a trail of urine and excrement the whole way?

It's a hell of a mental challenge indeed. At least in your situation you weren't expecting someone to try to kill you every two seconds. People need to stop acting like being a soldier isn't a hard thing to do, because it is. I know I for one would never be able to do it.

Says the man who dismisses other life changing events as not nearly as important as joining the army.

You know what's offensive? Not seeing a problem with being trained to kill other human beings....and further...GLORIFYING it.

I don't disagree that what Carbra has had to do is very challenging both mentally and physically and I didn't say that the Army is much much harder just not comparable, its a completely different thing. Saying that all people who join the army are retards is far worse.

Secondly don't use the word glorifying it, it's far to vague and can mean anything. Basicly your only argument so far has consisted of, it's bad because I say so.

Oh stop it. :p

Cabra West: You're right...your experience was quite challenging indeed. Still...have you ever seen a real combat situation? Do you know what goes on in the head of a person during such a combat situation? Do you realize how many of us would just up and run away in a heartbeat because we'd be so scared that we'd be leaving a trail of urine and excrement the whole way?

It's a hell of a mental challenge indeed. At least in your situation you weren't expecting someone to try to kill you every two seconds. People need to stop acting like being a soldier isn't a hard thing to do, because it is. I know I for one would never be able to do it.

Also, try comparing the amount of people that go into depression and anxiety after the millitary to people who move countries.

Secondly don't use the word glorifying it, it's far to vague and can mean anything. Basicly your only argument so far has consisted of, it's bad because I say so.Yes, that's the appropriate counter to the argument of 'it's good because I say so".

There's not a whole lot to do to actually get ready for BCT. They come up with some freaking wicked excercises for you to do. I went to Ft. Jackson in summer of '05 and on to Ft. Rucker for AIT afterwards. And seeing as you'll be going to Ft. Benning, apparently, expect it to be hard. Very hard, in fact.

The army's fun. Well, except for the bullcrap, but that's every job, right? The only thing that's really going to save you at BCT is to keep your head on straight and stay as low profile as possible. Use common sense and keep up with your stuff. Try to help your "battle buddies" (yeah, the army's that gay) as much as possible without compromising yourself. Remember that it's their job to break you down, but just don't let it. Basic is actually very fun. Except for the gas chamber. Screw that crap. Never again.

You'll be tested in tons of ways. But just use your head and you'll be fine. You'll get to know everybody within hours, and you're going to have to depend on each other to get through. Just don't take any crap personal.

Don't try to commit suicide by drinking a bottle of windex, either. The girl we had that tried to do that didn't die, and as they were rushing her out on a stretcher, our DS had them stop, and kindly requested that they have her spit on the windows before leaving. Not a good idea.

But yeah, I ramble and digress. Pay attention. Drink water moderately, as if you're in a class and can't go... you pee on yourself. And then they humiliate you. And then you try to commit suicide to get out. And try to stay awake during class. Oh, even if you're not religious, go to church. It gets you away from the DSs for an hour or so a week, and gets you into a relaxed setting for just a little bit.

Just take it easy. Don't be a screw up and don't be a show off. Just go with it and you'll be fine.

Yes, that's the appropriate counter to the argument of 'it's good because I say so".

I havn't argued thus far, all I have done is ask the question "what is wrong with being trained to kill", despite the army being a lot more to it then that. So far your argument has basicly been "because I say so".

Cabra West: You're right...your experience was quite challenging indeed. Still...have you ever seen a real combat situation? Do you know what goes on in the head of a person during such a combat situation? Do you realize how many of us would just up and run away in a heartbeat because we'd be so scared that we'd be leaving a trail of urine and excrement the whole way?

It's a hell of a mental challenge indeed. At least in your situation you weren't expecting someone to try to kill you every two seconds. People need to stop acting like being a soldier isn't a hard thing to do, because it is. I know I for one would never be able to do it.

Every lifestyle has it's challenges.
And it's not as if anybody was forcing them. Yet. It's a personal choice, so why expect people to fall over themselves for somebody else's choice?

Also, try comparing the amount of people that go into depression and anxiety after the millitary to people who move countries.

*raises hand*
Good idea. The depression rates amongst immigrants is quite high.

Here are some sources if you want to pursue the issue. It's a well recognised problem:

Depression among Latinas separated from their children (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=retrieve&db=pubmed&list_uids=15939949&dopt=Abstract)

Depression among Ethiopian immigrants (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=15126891&dopt=Abstract)

More general rates of depression among immigrant groups (http://books.nap.edu/openbook.php?record_id=4942&page=28)

*snip*
I fail to see how any of that makes the army sound fun. In fact, it makes the army sound not only disgusting, but as if it turns a person into someone who enjoys watching other people suffer, especially by mocking suicide cases.

I havn't argued thus far, all I have done is ask the question "what is wrong with being trained to kill", despite the army being a lot more to it then that. So far your argument has basicly been "because I say so".

No, my answer to the question 'what is wrong with being trained to kill' is 'being trained to kill'.

Try to keep up, please.

I fail to see how any of that makes the army sound fun. In fact, it makes the army sound not only disgusting, but as if it turns a person into someone who enjoys watching other people suffer, especially by mocking suicide cases.

Yeah well, it's not for everyone. I have fun. Although I don't really kill people. I just sort of tell airplanes and helicopters where to go. That's all.

*raises hand*
Good idea. The depression rates amongst immigrants is quite high.

Here are some sources if you want to pursue the issue. It's a well recognised problem:

Depression among Latinas separated from their children (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=retrieve&db=pubmed&list_uids=15939949&dopt=Abstract)

Depression among Ethiopian immigrants (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=15126891&dopt=Abstract)

More general rates of depression among immigrant groups (http://books.nap.edu/openbook.php?record_id=4942&page=28)

I don't mean those sort of immigrants do I. I meant people like Carbra.

I don't mean those sort of immigrants do I. I meant people like Carbra.

And I'm different from "those sort of immigrants" how exactly?

No, my answer to the question 'what is wrong with being trained to kill' is 'being trained to kill'.

Try to keep up, please.

Thats like saying 1+1 = 1+1. It's not an answer.

I fail to see how any of that makes the army sound fun. In fact, it makes the army sound not only disgusting, but as if it turns a person into someone who enjoys watching other people suffer, especially by mocking suicide cases.

Its not always like that. But to go through something like that for our safety takes a great deal of bravery, and I respect people for that.

Thats like saying 1+1 = 1+1. It's not an answer.

It's as much a statement of opinion as yours.

You say "there is nothing wrong with being trained to kill", and argue nothing.

I reply, "there is something wrong with being trained to kill", and argue nothing.

Your question is as much a statement of opinion as my answer to it. Clearer?

Every lifestyle has it's challenges.
And it's not as if anybody was forcing them. Yet. It's a personal choice, so why expect people to fall over themselves for somebody else's choice?

I'm not. My simple point is that people need to stop dismissing such things without a thought. Your experience was harrowing, and so is being in the military. I'm not trying to belittle either, merely point out that one should NOT belittle either.

Neesika: That's to be expected, of course.

Just so you don't accidentely impale me with one of your comments, I only respect the military for being able to do a job I could not do. While I am a realistic pacifist(meaning I avoid violence unless there is absolutely no other option, and even then I do my best to minimize the necessary violence)I could never, and will never, kill someone intentionally. (Accidentely is a whole other story, obviously.)

And I'm different from "those sort of immigrants" how exactly?

You don't come from a poor background and I doubt you were seperated from your children.

I don't mean those sort of immigrants do I. I meant people like Carbra.

What sort...the brown sort?

Immigration is a very difficult process regardless of race. Economic factors tend to have more impact...and Cabra isn't particularly rich.

You don't come from a poor background and I doubt you were seperated from your children.

I came from a middle-class background and experienced poverty for the first time when first coming here.
And I was separated from everyone I had known, my family, my friends, everyone. I couldn't even call them cause I had no money for the first few months.

It's as much a statement of opinion as yours.

You say "there is nothing wrong with being trained to kill", and argue nothing.

I reply, "there is something wrong with being trained to kill", and argue nothing.

Your question is as much a statement of opinion as my answer to it. Clearer?

OMFG!

I havn't made any statement yet merely asked a question. Now answer the question.

Just so you don't accidentely impale me with one of your comments,

I never accidentally do that sort of thing.

I came from a middle-class background and experienced poverty for the first time when first coming here.
And I was separated from everyone I had known, my family, my friends, everyone. I couldn't even call them cause I had no money for the first few months.

Now imagining doing that but going through conditions much much worse, and being scared shitless the whole time seeing your freinds die. That is the army.

Oh no. The army's going to get me. Help, someone.

If its the American army you truly are fucked......It'll be years till they stop throwing money at helping (whats left of) you.

OMFG!

I havn't made any statement yet merely asked a question. Now answer the question.

Oh please. "What is wrong with being trained to kill?" is a clear statement of your position that there is nothing wrong with it.

At least have the decency to be somewhat intellectually honest.

Oh please. "What is wrong with being trained to kill?" is a clear statement of your position that there is nothing wrong with it.

At least have the decency to be somewhat intellectually honest.

Even if it implies that, doesn't mean that it is meant to be an argument. If you were to ask me why I don't like melted cheese on mince meat, you would probably be implying that you like it. Doesn't mean that I then answer "because it is melted cheese on mince meat".

Even if it implies that, doesn't mean that it is meant to be an argument. Ah, oh I see. Then tell us what you think is wrong with being trained to kill people.

Ah, oh I see. Then tell us what you think is wrong with being trained to kill people.

Is all you do dodge. It is obvious that I don't find anything inherently wrong in being trained to kill people. There is no such thing as a skill crime.

But there are many different arguments as to why being trained to kill could be considered wrong so rather then address all of them I decided to see exactly which argument you (or Carbra) had.

Now imagining doing that but going through conditions much much worse, and being scared shitless the whole time seeing your freinds die. That is the army.

Much, much worse, how? Last thing I heard, soldiers do eat three meals a day, and don't have to worry how they'll pay for the bus to work, and how long it'll be before they'll end up homeless.
I never complained, I pulled myself out. I chose that lifestyle, and I expect no respect or advise or anything.

If people choose to join the army, go ahead and do it, but stop posting boring threads about it.

Is all you do dodge. It is obvious that I don't find anything inherently wrong in being trained to kill people. Who's dodging? I said your position was 'there is nothing wrong with being trained to kill people'. You said you never stated that, just asked a question. I pointed out the obvious fact that this was the intended position expressed in your question and asked you to stop being intellectually dishonest. You then brought up an example to show why I can't assume from your question what your position is. Then, you state your position as 'there is nothing wrong with being trained to kill people'.

Instead of wasting all this time, why not just admit I got your position exactly right from post 1?

I never accidentally do that sort of thing.
Well, the way I was posting it might have seemed like I supported the argument that being trained to kill is not a bad thing and I didn't want you to mistakenly go after me for it.

Much, much worse, how? Last thing I heard, soldiers do eat three meals a day, and don't have to worry how they'll pay for the bus to work, and how long it'll be before they'll end up homeless.


No they have to worry about not getting their brains splattered all over the wall. Not all soldiers enjoy three meals a day (which consist of crappy rations anway). If you look at many of the soldiers conditions in the past, it has been the same as third world conditions.


I never complained, I pulled myself out. I chose that lifestyle, and I expect no respect or advise or anything.


People will always be willing to help you and advise you if you post on this forum.


If people choose to join the army, go ahead and do it, but stop posting boring threads about it.

Why?

Who's dodging? I said your position was 'there is nothing wrong with being trained to kill people'. You said you never stated that, just asked a question. I pointed out the obvious fact that this was the intended position expressed in your question and asked you to stop being intellectually dishonest. You then brought up an example to show why I can't assume from your question what your position is. Then, you state your position as 'there is nothing wrong with being trained to kill people'.

Instead of wasting all this time, why not just admit I got your position exactly right from post 1?

No, no no no no. I never once said you cant assume what my position is. WHY DONT YOU ADRESS THE REST OF THE ARGUMENT NOW RATHER THEN GOING IN CIRCLES.

People will always be willing to help you and advise you if you post on this forum.

No doubt. But it was my decision, and I saw it through. If you can't see through things like that on your own, don't do it.



Why?

Cause they're begging for appreciation and praise. It makes them look pathetic.
They've decided to do something that I personally regard as unacceptable and come here to boast.
Sure, they've got every right to it, but I think it's pitiful, really.

No doubt. But it was my decision, and I saw it through. If you can't see through things like that on your own, don't do it.


I disagree, everybody will require help at one point in their life.


Cause they're begging for appreciation and praise. It makes them look pathetic.
They've decided to do something that I personally regard as unacceptable and come here to boast.
Sure, they've got every right to it, but I think it's pitiful, really.

How do you know that? Why don't you believe that this person was just looking for advice? (and it's a good place to look for since many people here used to be in the army)

Well, I haven't enlisted yet. I take my physical on Monday, I believe, and the D-lab on Tuesday, and then I'll DEP in for deployment after my finals. Given my 91 on the Asvab they suggested that I join special forces and so after doing some research I decided to go through with it. If I 'wash out' I get sent to infantry, but I see nothing wrong with that (except that my rank will be horrible, and thus my pay). Nevertheless, I will probably be sent to Fort Benning over the summer. Can any Army personnel or ex-personnel give me an idea of what boot camp will be like?

What is a good way to prepare for it? I already do sit-ups and push-ups everyday, and go the gym Mondays, Wednesdays and Fridays for cardio and to lift weights. I have to run more, that's for sure - on a good week I run ~3 miles Tuesdays and Thursdays (the Fort Bragg site suggests 3-5 miles five days a week).

So, school me!



1. Its Basic Combat Training, not boot camp, your a Soldier not a Marine.


Don't worry too much about conditioning to running, if you are able to pass a PT test Run (15:52 for 2 miles) after doing a lot of push ups and Situps that is more than enough to get you started, Trust me, IBT will run the dogpiss out of you. Don't overdue it and injure yourself, make sure you have some other forms of cardio because running long term will injure you especially if you try too much too soon. (Swimming is a good low impact cardio exercise, try to work yourself up to swimming a mile, which is about 64 laps in a 25 meter pool, it'll be closer to 70-75 in a 25 yard pool.) But don't worry if your only able to do 7-8 laps to begin with. Work for Endurance not muscle mass, you want to be lean and mean not big bulky and strong.


Your Drill Sergeants will condition you, and if you already show an aptitude for PT while your there(being in shape when you show up helps a lot) they will know who is going to RIP, ABN and who is in the 18X program, so trust me they will let you know and do everything they can to prepare you for your experience. From Basic training to getting your Triple Canopy is a long process, can take up to 2 years where you will be doing nothing but schools. And the thing about SF is it is as much mental as it is Physical, so exercise your mind, start reading, a lot, that will help keep your mind sharp. Put down America's Army or whatever the fuck Video game you play and pick up a book, read about SF, read about military history, strategy, etc. Remember your mind is like a muscle if you don't exercise it regularly its going to lose strength and everything you worked so hard physically for can go out the window if you don't have a sharp mind.


Just to warn you there is a nearly a 95% attrition rate in the 18X program, so odds are you will end up in the 82nd ABN div, or if they don't need you you'll be an ABN qualified infantryman in a leg unit, aka 5 jump chump. If you pass everything in SFAS, but still don't get selected, stay motivated and see if you can't get them to send you to RIP so you can become a ranger, because if you can do the Physical aspects of SFAS your probably good to go in ranger.



Stay motivated and Stay focused. Good luck

You need to pick a primary MOS. You don't have to be infantry. Your recruiters are NOT giving you the whole story. I was an MP and I knew several people who went to SF try-outs. Pick a real MOS you will not be happy as infantry. Not with a 91 on your asvabs. Pick an MOS you will be happy with if you wash out! Counter Intel is fun. Not really applicable to the real world, but neither is infantry. You are too smart for the infantry. If your recuriters are telling you that you cannot try out for SF unless you sign on as infantry they are lieing! Pick an MOS where you can go airborne. Get a duty station assignment IN YOUR CONTRACT. Request Bragg or Benning.

Do not enlist as infantry. That doesn't even guarantee you a try out!

you can enlist straight in as SF btw, its called the 18X program ;) this is something new, i take it you were an old time MP.


BTW i'm a 31B20, in your time I'd have been known as a 95B20

No, no no no no. I never once said you cant assume what my position is. WHY DONT YOU ADRESS THE REST OF THE ARGUMENT NOW RATHER THEN GOING IN CIRCLES.

You don't have an argument, I thought that much was clear. You simply have an opinion that being trained to kill someone is not wrong. I have the opinion that it is. There really isn't more to say...it's not as though you can back up your position (that there is nothing wrong with being trained to kill people) with anything but MORE opinion. It's a moral issue.

And yes, you did say I couldn't assume your position from your question, because you said, 'it's not a statement, it's a question'.

Really struggling with this, aren't you?

Yea, thank you for reminding me about the hiking. I'm going today with some friends enlisting as Cav Scouts. Any idea what I could put in my backpack to weight it up to 30lbs?To get a feel for that kind of weight, though I was not in the armed forces, I would proably get a canteen full of water, some canned foods, binoculars, bowing knife if you could find one, a few iron objects for the metal objects and that could give you some idea on who it feels and if not get some books and from them in a backpack and that should do.

...of course. I am a fool. MOS stands for Method of Service, or something similiar anyway, thus the P would be, as you said, Primary. See, I should really try actually figuring this stuff out for once...it's not that hard.

So, what's your service history, Snafturi? I love hearing stories from military servicemen, mainly because they do things all the time that I'd be too scared to do.

MOS= Military Occupational Specialty.

You don't have an argument, I thought that much was clear. You simply have an opinion that being trained to kill someone is not wrong. I have the opinion that it is. There really isn't more to say...it's not as though you can back up your position (that there is nothing wrong with being trained to kill people) with anything but MORE opinion. It's a moral issue.

And yes, you did say I couldn't assume your position from your question, because you said, 'it's not a statement, it's a question'.

Really struggling with this, aren't you?

If you read what I said, I said that I can't address all different arguments as there is too many so it is more practical to hear your particular argument (which you refuse to show) to have a practical discussion. Oh and just because it's a question doesn't mean you can't assume my position, I never meant it like that anyway it was just another way for you to dodge further. Also you can have ethical debates, most of NSG is that.

If you read what I said, I said that I can't address all different arguments as there is too many so it is more practical to hear your particular argument (which you refuse to show) to have a practical discussion. Oh and just because it's a question doesn't mean you can't assume my position, I never meant it like that anyway it was just another way for you to dodge further. Also you can have ethical debates, most of NSG is that.


Being trained to kill people is wrong.

Being trained to kill people is wrong.

I guess I wont be able to get anything more out of you, I give up you obviously don't want to debate this.

Infantry are trained to make contact with the enemy and destroy the enemy.


Us MP's are trained to(i'm about to get corny, but this is our motto) Assist, Protect, and Defend the Troops and Civilian personell working for the military.



SF is trained to well train other nations to fight, or Guerilla Groups, or Rebels, or any other Unconvential warfare.



Yes we are trained to fight and to kill. Every succesful nation has a trained military of sorts, where trained killers(if you want to call it that) enforce policy of that government or its people depending on what nation.


Switzerland is one of the most pacifistic countries on the planet and yet every male of a certain age in their country is trained to kill.



There are 3 types of people.


1. Sheep(most of the population, happy in their own lives and just minding their own business)

2. Wolves/Predators(they prey on the sheep, whether they do it in a criminal or militirastic action)


3. Warriors(Those that protect the sheep and hunt the Predators, the difference is they do it not for personal gain or glory but they do it with a deep underlying need to serve. Whether it be Police, Firefighters, Soldiers, Airman, Marines or Sailors. Violence is a part of nature, and sometimes you need to use violence to have an aggressive defense. And sometimes an aggressive defense is needed where a passive defense/deterence will have failed)







Please excuse anything that may have been said Incoherently, I'm working on a bottle of Aged 12 years Chivas Regal.

I guess I wont be able to get anything more out of you, I give up you obviously don't want to debate this.

Because you don't have a counter to my statement?

It's good to admit when you've got nothing.

Because you don't have a counter to my statement?

It's good to admit when you've got nothing.

I'm willing to debate you.



While drinking fine scotch(at the very least, very good scotch)

Because you don't have a counter to my statement?

It's good to admit when you've got nothing.

So basicly, you cant read. Since I have said one fucking million times that to give all my arguments as to why being trained to kill or having any sort of skill can't ever be inherently wrong would take up the whole page and waste time. So I ask you to outline your argument so I can responed appropiately. But since its so fucking obvious you have batshit for an argument you just dodge and refuse to debate.

Hahahaha...you have a bit of spittle on your chin.

I'm willing to debate you. You're an hour late on that...and when I get back you might not be in any shape to...but I'll look this thread up just in case:)

I'm willing to debate you.


Thats practically a paradox in terms of neesika.

you can enlist straight in as SF btw, its called the 18X program ;) this is something new, i take it you were an old time MP.


BTW i'm a 31B20, in your time I'd have been known as a 95B20

Yes, I'm aware of the program. It also means if he washes out he's straight infantry. Any male can try out for SF. It behooves him to be at an SF base because there's more try outs.

Old time MP? I got out in '03! There was no 20 behind the 95B either. Back in "the old days."

::grabs walker and wanders off muttering something about young people::

Yes, I'm aware of the program. It also means if he washes out he's straight infantry. Any male can try out for SF. It behooves him to be at an SF base because there's more try outs.

Old time MP? I got out in '03! There was no 20 behind the 95B either. Back in "the old days."

::grabs walker and wanders off muttering something about young people::

yes there was.

you were a 95B10 if you were E-4 and Below, aka a skill level 1 soldier


an airborne PFC MP for example would be a 95B1P, a Sergeant would have been a 95B2P


I'm a 31B20 because I'm a Leg MP Buck Sergeant, i'm a skill level 3 soldier when i get my E-6, skill level 4 for E-7, 5 for E-8, you get the idea.




And honestly the attrition in the 18X program is horrendous, They want more experienced more mature soldiers anyway.


Its best to be in a few years in another MOS and then Try out.

Thats practically a paradox in terms of neesika.

*looks at my bottle of Chivas Regal*


I'll take my chances.

yes there was.

you were a 95B10 if you were E-4 and Below, aka a skill level 1 soldier


an airborne PFC MP for example would be a 95B1P, a Sergeant would have been a 95B2P


I'm a 31B20 because I'm a Leg MP Buck Sergeant, i'm a skill level 3 soldier when i get my E-6, skill level 4 for E-7, 5 for E-8, you get the idea.

I have my DD-214 right in front of me and it says I was a 95B only. I also never heard that while I was in. I'm reasonably certain it's new. Or maybe something personnell used?


Edit: Or maybe whoever processed it screwed up. I've got a few extra ribbons noted...

Edit2:Along with an expert ribbon for hand grenades??? I barely passed. I couldn't throw them the retarded way they tried to made us throw them.

Well, I'm not informing anyone. I'll take the 20 being left off in exchange for those bonuses!

And honestly the attrition in the 18X program is horrendous, They want more experienced more mature soldiers anyway.


Its best to be in a few years in another MOS and then Try out.

That's what I was saying. I had a bit of verbal diarrhea because I get so angry at recuiters selling BS MOS's (which that is IMHO). Especially to someone that got a 91 on their ASVAB. I scored a 96 and was encouraged to become a chemical engineer. They really should have pushed me to take the D-Lab, but they made interrogation sound so f-ing boring I just couldn't.

I have my DD-214 right in front of me and it says I was a 95B only. I also never heard that while I was in. I'm reasonably certain it's new. Or maybe something personnell used?


Edit: Or maybe whoever processed it screwed up. I've got a few extra ribbons noted...

Along with an expert ribbon for hand grenades??? I barely passed. I couldn't throw them the retarded way they tried to amke us throw them.

Well, I'm not informing anyone. I'll take the 20 being left off in exchange for those bonuses!



That's what I was saying. I had a bit of verbal diarrhea because I get so angry at recuiters selling BS MOS's (which that is IMHO). Especially to someone that got a 91 on their ASVAB. I scored a 96 and was encouraged to become a chemical engineer. They really should have pushed me to take the D-Lab, but they made interrogation sound so f-ing boring I just couldn't.



Really, lemme go check my 214's(i'm guard and have been activated before, so i have a couple)

Really, lemme go check my 214's(i'm guard and have been activated before, so i have a couple)

I'm not even mildly surprised if it is a flub up. They also let me take ALL of my records with me when I left.

I'm not even mildly surprised if it is a flub up. They also let me take ALL of my records with me when I left.

ok, the oldest dated piece of paper.


Dated 30APR2003 the day I enlisted, its also my first set of orders

"Report to: 43rd AG BN, FLW 25FEB04
Training Period: Approx 17 weeks
Military Occupational Speciality :95B10

and anyone that wears their fucking Grenade Bar outside of BCT gets made fun of.

They've got this new system in place called iPEARMS where all of your records should be accesible to you Online through AKO.



its not perfect, but for some reason I have all the hardcopies of all my files, hehe. They only recently got my Med and Dental back from me. I still haven't given my 201 or any of my other shit back.

oh as a bit of an aside, if you want to look up any former Brothers or Sisters and you have a myspace, go here.



http://groups.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=groups.groupProfile&groupid=100090841&Mytoken=B93A2308-487A-4AC9-98EE4FCB70D6546D11126085

and anyone that wears their fucking Grenade Bar outside of BCT gets made fun of.

I wore my pistol and rifle qualification badges only. I was just shocked that they fucked that up so badly.

They've got this new system in place called iPEARMS where all of your records should be accesible to you Online through AKO.



its not perfect, but for some reason I have all the hardcopies of all my files, hehe. They only recently got my Med and Dental back from me. I still haven't given my 201 or any of my other shit back.

I willfully kept mine. I don't think I was supposed to though...

I wore my pistol and rifle qualification badges only. I was just shocked that they fucked that up so badly.

After i had qualified, not familirized but qualified with the SAW, I was going to put an "Automatic Rifle" Bar on my Qual badge, there is one in the 670-1 I checked, but I didn't feel like having to explain what that is to people

After i had qualified, not familirized but qualified with the SAW, I was going to put an "Automatic Rifle" Bar on my Qual badge, there is one in the 670-1 I checked, but I didn't feel like having to explain what that is to people

There was no SAW qualifications for me. Actually we spent most of our time with the M-60's (maybe I am old). We never qualified with them either.

There was no SAW qualifications for me. Actually we spent most of our time with the M-60's (maybe I am old). We never qualified with them either.

We don't have 60's anymore.


Just SAW's, 240B's, MK 19's and the good ol .50 cal.



Were you a garrison or Line MP, or one of our lesser known Cage Kicker or Customs brothers?

We don't have 60's anymore.


Just SAW's, 240B's, MK 19's and the good ol .50 cal.



Were you a garrison or Line MP, or one of our lesser known Cage Kicker or Customs brothers?

Garrison.

Back in my day the cage kickers were known as 95C's. I think customs were 95D's? I can't remember. 95D's were something they were phasing out at the time. No more 60's eh? Wow. M-16 A-2's are gone too?

Garrison.

Back in my day the cage kickers were known as 95C's. I think customs were 95D's? I can't remember. 95D's were something they were phasing out at the time. No more 60's eh? Wow. M-16 A-2's are gone too?

95C's are known as 31E's now, but they are thinking of rolling them in with us 31B's and eliminating it all together.


31D is a CID agent



We still use the A2 in my unit, we were about to transition to M-4's but uhh there was this flare up in the middle east, known as ummm Iraq, yes thats it.

So a lot of new stuff was diverted away from our unit, our Pluggers, our Up-Armored Humvees,etc.


But yeah finding a M-16A2 in the active duty army is hard even in Basic they are using either A4's or M-4's.