NationStates Jolt Archive

http://www.csmonitor.com/2007/0329/p01s02-woiq.html?page=2

The Iraq war may end soon. No one supports the war and even some reps are speaking out against the war. Bush will eventually be forced to pull out.

Celebrate!

*shakes maraca and starts a conga-line*

There are...a series of issues regarding this, not the least of which is bush's constitutional veto power. The fact is that this resolution was passed with the narrowist of margins, and will not survive a veto.

There are...a series of issues regarding this, not the least of which is bush's constitutional veto power. The fact is that this resolution was passed with the narrowist of margins, and will not survive a veto.

Can the President veto part of the bill and approve other parts, because as I understand it, the funding for the war is in this bill as well.

The democrats really don't have any brains at all. The moment we pull out, all three years and 2200 lives will be for nothing! Why do you think Afghanistan fell to the Taliban after the Soviets were forced out? Because no one bothered to stick around to help them recover

Can the President veto part of the bill and approve other parts, because as I understand it, the funding for the war is in this bill as well.

Nope. The President has no line item veto powers. Governors do, on the hand.

Nope. The President has no line item veto powers. Governors do, on the hand.

Ah, well that sucks, so who to blame for our troops not getting the fundings that they need. We could blame the President for vetoing the bill, but we could also blame Congress for passing a bill which has the Iraq deadline that everyone knew the President was going to veto anyways.

*power vacuum dance*

There are...a series of issues regarding this, not the least of which is bush's constitutional veto power. The fact is that this resolution was passed with the narrowist of margins, and will not survive a veto.

Wrong. The budget and deadline are on the same bill. If Bush signs- the war ends in march. If he vetoes, He doesn't get a budget to continue the war with.

Wrong. The budget and deadline are on the same bill. If Bush signs- the war ends in march. If he vetoes, He doesn't get a budget to continue the war with.

Win-win.

All I can hope is that it doesn't turn into fucking Saigon 1975 again when we pull it out, which might happen.

The democrats really don't have any brains at all. The moment we pull out, all three years and 2200 lives will be for nothing! Why do you think Afghanistan fell to the Taliban after the Soviets were forced out? Because no one bothered to stick around to help them recover

Ehem... 2200?
3244 as of today buddy...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/worldlatest/story/0,,-6516324,00.html

Think about the gross Irony of what you said compared to what I have just shown you. Lol.

Win-win.

:cool:

Can the President veto part of the bill and approve other parts, because as I understand it, the funding for the war is in this bill as well.

No. Clinton tried this, called it a "line item veto". Supreme court declared it unconstitutional, said the power of the president is either approve in full, or reject in full.

Attempts to selectively veto some parts and keep others would effectively make a law that the legislature didn't intend to make, which would grant the president the power to make law.

Wrong. The budget and deadline are on the same bill. If Bush signs- the war ends in march. If he vetoes, He doesn't get a budget to continue the war with.

And if he vetoes, and now there is NO budget, and the democrats have to come up with a NEW budget proposal, will they have the political will to try again?

EVENTUALLY one of the two will have to happen. Either bush accepts the democrat's plan, or the democrats create a budget bush can live with.

The idea that the democratic party is going to just let money run out on the military is silly.

No. Clinton tried this, called it a "line item veto". Supreme court declared it unconstitutional, said the power of the president is either approve in full, or reject in full.

Attempts to selectively veto some parts and keep others would effectively make a law that the legislature didn't intend to make, which would grant the president the power to make law.

I'm pretty sure that Bush has at least tried this though hasn't he? I was sure I read something about it. Regardless, any path Bush takes to get out of this could end in a criminal charge.

Just remember that once the Americans pull out of Iraq, the freedom-hating terrorists will probably begin to attack the next closest target which just so happens to be Europe.

Be careful what you wish for.

You know a nice dose of Communism would help Iraq and its populace.

And if he vetoes, and now there is NO budget, and the democrats have to come up with a NEW budget proposal, will they have the political will to try again?

EVENTUALLY one of the two will have to happen. Either bush accepts the democrat's plan, or the democrats create a budget bush can live with.

The idea that the democratic party is going to just let money run out on the military is silly.

We are looking at it from different angles. If the funding goes, the troops just just sit there without pay and starving- the military action is canceled. As in: it's over, we leave, troops go home. Bush cant keep them there without pay. The democrats cant lose this battle, and if the funding gets cut, I place the blame squarely on bush.

Though I will add, the time-line is a little desperate, and my reading of that is no Democrat holding the presidential office wants to get stuck holding the "hot potato".

I hate Democrats all they want to do is talk to these people, If you havent seend videos latley, the terriorists just want to kill you for who you are I may be a Communist but i still support the war.

You know a nice dose of Communism would help Iraq and its populace.

I'd love to know where you think they're going to get the capital for it. Ironic isn't it? You cant form a communism without enough commodities to sustain the population in the first place. Iraq doesn't have that, unless they start trading Oil for food and water, which wouldn't be a bad thing- but a country experiencing a communist shift is not going to be able to set up a fair trade balance.

Wrong. The budget and deadline are on the same bill. If Bush signs- the war ends in march. If he vetoes, He doesn't get a budget to continue the war with.

No, it just means the DoD needs a new budget bill pushed through and until that happens nobody's getting money, and nobody's going anywhere, much less home. Dem's just need to stop wetting their panties, stop the vote-buying, withdraw the retarded time table idea, and let the military do it's job. The new plans are working fine so far and there's no reason to be cowards and pull ourselves out when things are actually getting better for once.

How can you trust a thing with a face like Nanci Pelosi's? Hideous :cool:

We are looking at it from different angles. If the funding goes, the troops just just sit there without pay and starving- the military action is canceled. As in: it's over, we leave, troops go home. Bush cant keep them there without pay. The democrats cant lose this battle, and if the funding gets cut, I place the blame squarely on bush.

Though I will add, the time-line is a little desperate, and my reading of that is no Democrat holding the presidential office wants to get stuck holding the "hot potato".

That's just it, I question whether when push comes to shove if the democratic party is truly willing to stand there and watch funding expire. I'm not sure if they're ready for that.

Yes but Communism works great for poor and rich countrys

Yes but Communism works great for poor and rich countrys

Tell that to Russia or North Korea

If we pull out BAM! another Vietnam they will become an Iran or Pakistan what we should do is send more troops and keep the borders more secure.

If we pull out BAM! another Vietnam they will become an Iran or Pakistan

you mean..our ally?

Actually even after the USSR fell Russia has had terrible econimic set backs they were much stronger when they were Communists i just hope it will come back.

Yes but Communism works great for poor and rich countrys

We're off topic. Why dont you start a thread titled "Communism in Developing countries" or something like that. Im very engaged in this Budget and Deadline bill discussion.

Now im not a big fan of NK they are murderers. Plus there hella poor I like the chinese way of Communism.

I thought were were talking about Iraq.

I like the chinese way of Communism.

So in other words...not communist at all.

Seriously, what are you, 12?

No im not 12 WTF i did a whole report on this subject.

I guess you guys dont want a "Commi" talking

No im not 12 WTF i did a whole report on this subject.

in 9th grade?

We are looking at it from different angles. If the funding goes, the troops just just sit there without pay and starving- the military action is canceled. As in: it's over, we leave, troops go home. Bush cant keep them there without pay. The democrats cant lose this battle, and if the funding gets cut, I place the blame squarely on bush.

Though I will add, the time-line is a little desperate, and my reading of that is no Democrat holding the presidential office wants to get stuck holding the "hot potato".

Yea, but Congress put a time line in the bill full knowingly that Bush was going to veto any Iraq time line.

lol are you kidding me.

That's just it, I question whether when push comes to shove if the democratic party is truly willing to stand there and watch funding expire. I'm not sure if they're ready for that.

Well it certainly is going to end as a battle of who folds first, but I argue that the Democrats have the advantage because refusing the funding and the deadline both fit their objectives.

You seem to be implying that as soon as funding runs out the soldiers are going to be trapped and alone in a foreign land. They won't, they will get sent home the second the project is canceled. The soldiers wont be hurt at all.

Iraq however...Well, we'll just have to see where Bush's sympathy lies.

I thought were were talking about Iraq.

This topic is about a bill that is going before Bush that either sets a deadline or cuts funding. If you want to discuss communism or the economic state of Iraq- start a new thread. Click general at the top, then click "new thread" at the top of the forum. I'll join you there as soon as you make it.

And this has nothing to do with Communism-hating. This forum is the home of Soheran: a communist so intelligent and well-spoken it may make your head spin. So please, just start a new thread.

I hate Democrats all they want to do is talk to these people, If you havent seend videos latley, the terriorists just want to kill you for who you are I may be a Communist but i still support the war.your posts are fun.. I want more. :D

I guess you guys dont want a "Commi" talking

Don't worry, when I was in the 7th grade, I too went through a Commy phase.

I played lots of the Russian levels in Call of Duty, a lot. I learned the Russian alphabet, and learned how to say, "I would like to buy one cat" in Russian.

You'll grow out of it soon.

The problem is that terrorists see the West as a paper tiger. Sure, it looks tough, but they believe the West is weak. Bin Laden often refered to the incident where the US pulled out of a ocuntry, Lebenon I believe, after scores of American marines were killed in a bombing. I'd hate to see what would happen if the Bin Ladens of the world are proven right. But the Islamofascists want only one thing: The entire Middle East, possibly the world, to be under oppressive Islamic rule. Think of it as Midieval Europe, except Islamic and now. Possibly worse.

I was watching a program on National Geographic about Saudi Arabia and their tv shows. Apparently, 50 girls were killed in a fire because the religious fire fighters weren't allowed to rescue them because they weren't wearing something. Hate to see that more wide spread.

I think we should eventually get out of Iraq, but based off of accomplishments instead of time. After all, if the insurgents just survive and wait until the deadline passes, they'd have no American interference in their little civil war. Don't blame it on the occupation. Blame it on centuries old tensions that were temporarily controlled under a brutal dictator. Maybe Britian. After all, I hardly think the Middle-Easterners got much of a say when the map was drawn. It was either homocidal nutjob and his equally homocidal sons or civil war. Like choosing between Nazi rule and civil war. Both Sadaam and Hitler controlled the populace with propoganda, fear, and death. Both had enemies that could hardly seem any better. Sadaam had Iran. Hitler had Stalin. Both are infamous for genocide.

The problem is that terrorists see the West as a paper tiger. Sure, it looks tough, but they believe the West is weak. Bin Laden often refered to the incident where the US pulled out of a ocuntry, Lebenon I believe, after scores of American marines were killed in a bombing. I'd hate to see what would happen if the Bin Ladens of the world are proven right. But the Islamofascists want only one thing: The entire Middle East, possibly the world, to be under oppressive Islamic rule. Think of it as Midieval Europe, except Islamic and now. Possibly worse.

I was watching a program on National Geographic about Saudi Arabia and their tv shows. Apparently, 50 girls were killed in a fire because the religious fire fighters weren't allowed to rescue them because they weren't wearing something. Hate to see that more wide spread.

I think we should eventually get out of Iraq, but based off of accomplishments instead of time. After all, if the insurgents just survive and wait until the deadline passes, they'd have no American interference in their little civil war. Don't blame it on the occupation. Blame it on centuries old tensions that were temporarily controlled under a brutal dictator. Maybe Britian. After all, I hardly think the Middle-Easterners got much of a say when the map was drawn. It was either homocidal nutjob and his equally homocidal sons or civil war. Like choosing between Nazi rule and civil war. Both Sadaam and Hitler controlled the populace with propoganda, fear, and death. Both had enemies that could hardly seem any better. Sadaam had Iran. Hitler had Stalin. Both are infamous for genocide.

When we do pull out I hope a competent military force moves in and does a better job. I have a feeling when we pull out we'll have another 9-11 on our hands.

Both Sadaam and Hitler controlled the populace with propoganda, fear, and death. Both had enemies that could hardly seem any better. Sadaam had Iran. Hitler had Stalin. Both are infamous for genocide.

I'd compare Saddam to Stalin more than Hitler. Stalin was actually sort of useful for the rest of the world (helped end the 2nd World War) while Hitler wasn't (started the war). Saddam kept the Shiite fundies in check in Iraq (even after the first Gulf War, I might add), and this was good unless you like the way things are in Iran, even if it wasn't so good from a humanitarian point of view. He wasn't even a threat to anyone but his own people, especially the fundies. Getting rid of him wasn't really such a good idea, in my opinion. There are much worse dictators who aren't effectively castrated in the world.

He was evil in ways we could understand. The fundies are evil in ways that are far harder for us to get. They are the ones who can do 9/11s, not Saddam. Helping them won't help us.

This is the war that never ends, it goes on and on my friends. It was started over WMDs, now its failing so we should leave, please. But, this is that never ends. it goes on and on my friends. It was started over WMDs, now its failing so we should leave, please. But, this is that never ends. it goes on and on my friends. It was started over WMDs, now its failing so we should leave, please. But, this is that never ends. it goes on and on my friends. It was started over WMDs, now its failing so we should leave, please. But, this is that never ends.

This is the war that never ends, it goes on and on my friends. It was started over WMDs, now its failing so we should leave, please. But, this is that never ends. it goes on and on my friends. It was started over WMDs, now its failing so we should leave, please. But, this is that never ends. it goes on and on my friends. It was started over WMDs, now its failing so we should leave, please. But, this is that never ends. it goes on and on my friends. It was started over WMDs, now its failing so we should leave, please. But, this is that never ends.

Sig worthy man. Damn, that seems to put my sig over the limit . . .

Sig worthy man. Damn, that seems to put my sig over the limit . . .

Oh well. at least it was sig worthy to someone. That tells me that my job is done well.