NationStates Jolt Archive

What do you non-believers make of this (http://au.todaytonight.yahoo.com/article/38725/lifestyle/house-miracles)?

The house of miracles

After a 17-year-old boy died, oil began seeping through his bedroom walls and ash appeared on the floor. Some now believe he was a messenger of God.

There are crowds in a suburban Sydney street this evening, as there have been for weeks.

They are hoping for a miracle, to be touched by the hand of God. All because of a young boy who died and occurrences inside the house that are so far unexplained by science.

They line up for hours, hundreds at a time, to enter the small suburban home, a place thousands call "God on Earth".

Inside the home, oil is slowly seeping from walls and paintings, while ash on the floor is said to be a miracle cure for the mind, body and soul. The deliverer: a dead boy..

Five months ago, 17-year-old Michael Tannous was tragically killed in a car crash.

Forty days later, Mike's God-fearing parents, George and Lina noticed a strange line of oil appear on his bedroom wall and the smell of roses filled parts of the home.

Ash, the colour of coal, inexplicably began materalising from thin air. His parents believe it is a sign their son is still alive.

According to the Tannous family, the line of oil has multiplied and spread across the walls.

As well as the miracle oil, Mike's initials and a cross have also appeared. If you believe the believers, even Jesus has been spotted on the ceiling of a neighbouring room.

Now, the young and old are making pilgrimages to this 24-hour cathedral to those seeking to be healed by God.

Among them was 12-year-old Elana Ibiahim, who says her crippling joint pain is gone, healed by a magic elixir, the aromatic oil from Mike's bedroom.

"I was sick, I had joint problems and they kept swelling up," Elana said.

"I couldn't kneel and sometimes I was unable to write because of them.

"I put it on the first day and since then - all my pain is gone."

Local Catholic priest, Father Michael Melhen, said in all of his years at the pulpit, he had never seen anything as miraculous as this.

He stressed that he cannot speak on behalf of the Catholic church, but as an individual believer he is stunned at what he's seen.

He is using the oil that comes through the walls to anoint people.

"The purpose of the oil, according to the church, is to bless people and that's a sign, a symbolism of peace," Fr Melhen said.

As the word spread, Johanne Adams heard that the messiah was among us, despite never having met the Tannous family, but now visits regularly.

"Because I believe, I believe in this house," Johanne said.

"I don't know these people and they are beautiful people and it's a miracle."

Every person who walks through the doors for the very first time receives a free souvenir: a cotton bud soaked in the holy oil.

So far, over 3,500 people have received such a gift, with the number increasing by the hour.

"It means that Mike is still alive and that's a message to everyone that there is life after death," Fr Melhen said.

Mike's parents and Father Melhen say God hand-picked Mike from birth. A picture taken when he was just six months old, they say, was prophetic in its similarities to a famous rendering of Jesus.

Some even said Mike predicted his own death, his schoolbooks littered with poems and scribbles depicting the afterlife.

A gate among his drawings bore an amazing resemblance to the dripping oil.

George and Lina say they have not made a cent from the people arriving at their home.

"We have not collect any money, no way, we won't accept it at all," George said.

"All we need is for people to come here to light candles at the church for Mike, nothing else, or to pray, we don't need anything."

Peter Bowditch from Australian Skeptics said that for a miracle to be true, it has to have scientific evidence to back it up.

"To become excited about it, you have to be a true believer," Mr Bowditch said.

"That is, you have to be someone who is immersed totally in some form in faith.

Religious sightings and paranormal activity, known as religious pareidolia, have captivated audiences and the faithful for centuries.

Celestial sightings have been captured on fence posts, windows, even the humble vegemite sandwich.

In Perth, a statue of the Madonna supposedly bled tears of oil.

Extensive scientific testing revealed it to be an oil substance with an added fragrance, most likely rose oil, but where it came from - how it got there - no-one could conclusively determine. A documentary is being released this Easter.

But you only have to look at the faces of those who gather at the Tannous family's home, night and day, to realise that they believe Michael was a direct messenger of God.

"I would like everyone, especially those who don't believe, to come here and to have a look and to start knowing there is life after death," Father Melhen said.

The house is at 6 Bowden Street, Guildford, NSW. Visiting hours are strictly 12-2pm and 4-6pm ''only''.

It's Eris messing with you. That stuff will heal you, but it's carcinogenic. You're trading off whatever you have for cancer.

It could be a hoax, just like other instances of these phenomena have turned out to be in the past. Even so, I wouldn't discount it entirely until someone actually makes the effort to investigate it with scientific rigor; dismissing phenomena out of hand is nothing more than pseudoskepticism of the worst kind. It could simply be something we don't understand yet, or anything for that matter. Investigation is the only way any truth could be discerned.

Hmm. I dunno. I'd like to believe it, and it would be simply amazing if true, but it seems a little funny. I'd have to see it for myself.

I wonder how much is media sensationalism. Kind of like the tree stump that spewed water a few months back.

If it turns out to be legit, I'd consider revising my athiest standing.

Edit: I reread the story. I'd do more than revise.

It gives an adress if anyone wants to go look at it. I'd like to see some of our Aussie NSers go check it out.

I've seen far too many episodes of Scooby Doo for some oil to fool me

Though if its freely running of course in a few years the Earth may in fact be consumed by all the oil!

What do you non-believers make of this (http://au.todaytonight.yahoo.com/article/38725/lifestyle/house-miracles)?
A gate among his drawings bore an amazing resemblance to the dripping oil.

ROFLMAO

Do you believe in miracles?Sure. But surely not in christian miracles.

Countless thousands claim to witness miracles and claim to have been healed. Will I change my views because of this? No.

I believe in miracles!



With that said, I am also a skeptic. I really doubt this story is an example of a miracle.

What do you non-believers make of this?

Odd. It should be interesting to see test results on the Ash and oil samples.

The only question in my mind is whether or not theres deliberate fakery involved or not.

As the lad is dead, you can see the problem with him as a messenger. This is not helped by the means of communication (ye ashes and ye oil).

I read it on teh Intarwebs, so it MUST be true!

I read it on teh Intarwebs, so it MUST be true!

I believe there was a video of it on the web site, a video from a local news agency or something. Check that out.

And what would be the purpose of this 'miracle' besides stirring attention?

How exactly do you make the connection between an oily house and God?

How exactly do you make the connection between an oily house and God?

...Hmm...he got the direction wrong...The oil should pop up in America, so we pull out of Iraq, I believe that was God's plan.

i don't get it - your wall springs a leak and your first inclination isn't to see what the hell is leaking back there?

I might add, while I don't believe in miracles now, I wouldn't completely disavow their existence.

i don't get it - your wall springs a leak and your first inclination isn't to see what the hell is leaking back there?

At least put up a "No Smoking" sign.

I'd be pissed at God for screwing up my walls and rug.

...Hmm...he got the direction wrong...The oil should pop up in America, so we pull out of Iraq, I believe that was God's plan.I thought the oil was in Iraq and that's why you're there ... :confused:

What do you non-believers make of this (http://au.todaytonight.yahoo.com/article/38725/lifestyle/house-miracles)?

Hmph. I call it an unexplained phenomenon, and possibly a hoax.

"Five months ago, 17-year-old Michael Tannous was tragically killed in a car crash.

Forty days later, Mike's God-fearing parents, George and Lina noticed a strange line of oil appear on his bedroom wall and the smell of roses filled parts of the home.

Ash, the colour of coal, inexplicably began materalising from thin air. His parents believe it is a sign their son is still alive."


I'd be curious to see the death certificate and coroner's report then...

And isn't it...you know, dangerous...to be breathing in ash?

SHit people really dont understand god.

For me, the guy´s soul is making a political statement, saying that it was oil that killed him. He is crying oil, and saying it was the reason for his death. Also, the ash symbolizes GLOBAL WARMING, which means the ghost is saying we should care so much about oil, because if was the reason he died, and also because of GLOBAL WARMING.

Or maybe the oil is the result of the decomposition of all the porn the guy stored inside the walls.

I thought the oil was in Iraq and that's why you're there ... :confused:

No, we're in Iraq because of WMDs. If we had given a damn about the oil, we would have just lifted the embargo.

No, we're in Iraq because of WMDs. If we had given a damn about the oil, we would have just lifted the embargo.

Oh... there's no reason to believe the lies of four years ago. There are so many new lies which are much better thought out that you should subscribe to.

No, we're in Iraq because of WMDs. If we had given a damn about the oil, we would have just lifted the embargo.You're in Iraq because your president is braindead, but that was not the issue of the post... :rolleyes:

How exactly do you make the connection between an oily house and God?

Something about miraculous healings, a cross being formed and so on.

Something about miraculous healings, a cross being formed and so on.

Maybe Satan is being tricky. Making people worship a house instead of the One True God. Or whatever.


Now, cobble me some shoes!

It's most likely a hoax.

http://i7.tinypic.com/33ma6ab.gif

That's all there is to say, really.

MAybe there is oil under the house...soon a great oily eruption will occur....that or this is very impressive or a hoax.

I read the introduction to the passage and expected something much more impressive. This is not the first "omg oil is seeping from places it shouldn't omg!" hoax and it probably won't be the last. You're certainly wishful thinking if you think this is in any way genuine.

A miracle would be up being down for a day. Nothing less.

Freaky, I finished writing my synoptic essay on David Hume's objections to miracles this morning. :p

*puts on Hume hat*

1. When we weigh the possibility of a genuine miracle against the probability of it being a forgery/delusion/practical joke, the probability of it being a miracle will always be lower.

2. People have a deep-rooted love of the supernatural which causes them to convince themselves that a miracle has occured, even when it hasn't. This is particuarly relevant in this case as the parents desperately want to believe that their son is still with them. Basically, people are unreliable and credulous.

What do you non-believers make of this (http://au.todaytonight.yahoo.com/article/38725/lifestyle/house-miracles)?

No one is allowed in the house, except during two 'two hour windows'?

(12-2pm and 4-6pm).

I'm having trouble corroborating the story with another source. There seems to be no actual evidence that anything extraordinary is happening that couldn't be staged... and the place is off-limits for observation 20 hours of the day...

I suspect this is a hoax.

I believe in miracles but I wouldn't jump to the assumption that this particular instance is one.

http://i7.tinypic.com/33ma6ab.gif

That's all there is to say, really.

http://www.timewarp-toys.com/troll.jpg


Aww, what a cute little troll:

This is quite literally a textbook example of a hoax miracle.

Zilam, I'm disappointed in you. Why isn't one of the poll options "...where you from, you sexy thing..."? :(

I'd say that's a pretty shitty house.

No one is allowed in the house, except during two 'two hour windows'?

(12-2pm and 4-6pm).

I'm having trouble corroborating the story with another source. There seems to be no actual evidence that anything extraordinary is happening that couldn't be staged... and the place is off-limits for observation 20 hours of the day...

I suspect this is a hoax.

oh, well thats a good point, however, what about the healings that have taken place?

Zilam, I'm disappointed in you. Why isn't one of the poll options "...where you from, you sexy thing..."? :(


I was so going to do that as a poll option to!

oh, well thats a good point, however, what about the healings that have taken place?

the "what healings?" is inevitable, I'll just skip straight to:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Placebo_effect

Don't worry. The Australian Skeptics (http://www.skeptics.com.au/) will show up eventually and prove it is all bullshit.

It could be a hoax, just like other instances of these phenomena have turned out to be in the past. Even so, I wouldn't discount it entirely until someone actually makes the effort to investigate it with scientific rigor; dismissing phenomena out of hand is nothing more than pseudoskepticism of the worst kind. It could simply be something we don't understand yet, or anything for that matter. Investigation is the only way any truth could be discerned.

The Vatican has team specifically for this purpose though lately they have been sketchy about using them because of all the hoaxes.

Does a miracle always have to have a religious aspect, or does any unexplained phenomenon count?

oh, well thats a good point, however, what about the healings that have taken place?

placebo effect and wishful thinking

oh, well thats a good point, however, what about the healings that have taken place?

Combination of placebo effect and coincidence. I'd bet that the incidence of people getting "healed" (and actually doing so, not something psychosomatic or the placebo effect) is no higher than the rate of spontaneous remission of whatever was ailing them in the rest of the population.

Edit: I'm the third one to post a quick response to the same quote in a matter of minutes. Groupthink? On NSG? Unpossible!

Does a miracle always have to have a religious aspect, or does any unexplained phenomenon count?

i take any and all even moderately interesting happenings in the world to be divine signs from john frum that he will soon come back from america to deliver much cargo to his people. like just today i parked my car at a meter, and there was time left on it - a cargo miracle!

oh, well thats a good point, however, what about the healings that have taken place?

What about them?

Without being able to corroborate any of the story... I'm supposed to take the healings on faith?

I mean - I can go into the issue of faith-healing and it's relative merit... but since I can't find any other evidence to support this one off, it seems like it would likely be wasting effort to head too far in that direction.

http://www.timewarp-toys.com/troll.jpg
Aww, what a cute little troll:

http://i9.tinypic.com/2uym2ww.jpg
You might need to push it deeper still.

What do you non-believers make of this?
Even if this isn't a hoax, and there really is a statistically relevant healing effect, that wouldn't make it proof of God. Being unexplained doesn't mean something is supernatural. All it would prove is that our knowledge is incomplete. Which is already a universally accepted fact.

Even if this isn't a hoax, and there really is a statistically relevant healing effect, that wouldn't make it proof of God. ...and certainly not specifically the biblical god...

im thinking that catholic priest is going to get a severe talking to from his bishop one of these days. the church doesnt endorse any miracles without a thorough investigation that always assumes its a hoax.

What do you non-believers make of this (http://au.todaytonight.yahoo.com/article/38725/lifestyle/house-miracles)?

I'm going to go with: meh.

I dunno maybe everyone in Sydney is high all the time

Random images are a miracle.

To you it may be a "miracle", but to the rest of us, this is called a "hoax".

To you it may be a "miracle", but to the rest of us, this is called a "hoax".

YOU ARE A NON BELIEVER!

I reckon the parents planted it because they are too upset their son is gone.

YOU ARE A NON BELIEVER!

and very proud of it. :D.

and very proud of it. :D.

It seems I can't post pictures anymore.

:mad:

It seems I can't post pictures anymore.

:mad:

Strange. IMG is on here.

what kind of oil is seeping throught the walls, i didn't notice from a quick scan of the article. if it's crude maybe this is god's solution to peak oil..

If this happened near me, I would actually be rather disturbed. Not that I don't believe in God or miracles...but rose scented oils leaking from the walls, and ash spontaneously floating up from the floor.. I would think the house was about to fall into a large sinkhole, or that some sort of Centralia thing was going on.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centralia%2C_Pennsylvania

I'd say it's not a miracle because if it was a miracle, it would be something cool like God writing "Sorry" on the wall in light. Not something stupid (and easy to explain) like oil. Sounds way more like they just have a crappy house.

Bullshit?

Zilam, I'm disappointed in you. Why isn't one of the poll options "...where you from, you sexy thing..."? :(

You're totally dating yourself with that reference. :D

i don't get it - your wall springs a leak and your first inclination isn't to see what the hell is leaking back there?If the article is accurate, only the walls in one room is leaking. if it's a burst pipe or something, it would be both sides of one wall. not one side of all the walls in one room.

No one is allowed in the house, except during two 'two hour windows'?

(12-2pm and 4-6pm).

I'm having trouble corroborating the story with another source. There seems to be no actual evidence that anything extraordinary is happening that couldn't be staged... and the place is off-limits for observation 20 hours of the day...

I suspect this is a hoax.well, it is their home. and since they are not accepting money, one parent probably works and the other has to "tend" the house by themself, and they probably want some personal time for themselves at night.

tho setting up a webcam to continuously stream images from that room may be one way to put it under 24 hour survelance...

Don't worry. The Australian Skeptics (http://www.skeptics.com.au/) will show up eventually and prove it is all bullshit.and I hope they post their findings.

The Vatican has team specifically for this purpose though lately they have been sketchy about using them because of all the hoaxes.probably not sketchy, but overwhelmed because of all the hoaxes.

what kind of oil is seeping throught the walls, i didn't notice from a quick scan of the article. if it's crude maybe this is god's solution to peak oil..if it's the same oil used for annointing... probably olive.

I would like to hear from the Australian NS'ers. and if they can up load pics or put something on YouTube...

Today Tonight is not a reliable source. They have no credibility whatsoever, seriously. They invent stories*. Even if there is oil seeping out of the house, I fully expect that they made up the rest of the stuff.

* For instance, they recently did a story on an old lady who was being kicked out of her nursing home but refused to leave and chained herself to the door. When another network went to see whether this was true the old woman told them that the reporter had brought the chains. And let's not mention the cannibal tribe fiasco, hmm?

It's Eris messing with you. That stuff will heal you, but it's carcinogenic. You're trading off whatever you have for cancer.

Excellent reponse. *bows*

if it's the same oil used for annointing... probably olive.

I was reading somewhere that, like a hive will have a honeycomb with large amounts of residue, certain south-american weevils or similar character of insect have large amounts of excretory residue that, when moisturized moderately, spreads itself in a very similar fashion and in very similar conditions and nature as this.

What do you non-believers make of this (http://au.todaytonight.yahoo.com/article/38725/lifestyle/house-miracles)?

Looks like his parents found a way of making money. Good for them.

Even if this isn't a hoax, and there really is a statistically relevant healing effect, that wouldn't make it proof of God. Being unexplained doesn't mean something is supernatural. All it would prove is that our knowledge is incomplete. Which is already a universally accepted fact.

Quite. I, for one, will cite this miracle as final and incontrovertible proof of the existence of the Flying Spaghetti Monster.

Who's with me?

I think the worst thing about this topic is that a story has been found, which has no origin, and no proof of genuinity and the O/P is instantly sent into a petty competitiee frenzy of "WE R RIGHT U R RONG!"

*tsk*

Clearly the seeping oil is the work of Harmonia, the Greek Goddess of pouring oil on troubled waters.

Well, I suppose it could also be Huang-gun, the Chinese Incense God who was the first to think of burning perfumed oil and wood. Any mention of how the oil in question smells?

Or maybe Sesmu, the Egyptian God of Pressing Oil and Wine (separately, of course).

Or maybe it's just the world of Dale The Oily Diety Who Wants Attention.

Maybe it's gay code.

eww

Why is god so disgusting?

eww
Why is god so disgusting?Gods are not disgusting. Certain religions are.

eww

Why is god so disgusting?

Who says an unproven, omnipotent, all-knowing, superior being can't have a sense of humour, eh? :P

I was reading somewhere that, like a hive will have a honeycomb with large amounts of residue, certain south-american weevils or similar character of insect have large amounts of excretory residue that, when moisturized moderately, spreads itself in a very similar fashion and in very similar conditions and nature as this.that's one huge hive... :eek:

Looks like his parents found a way of making money. Good for them.they're not... according to the article.

Clearly the seeping oil is the work of Harmonia, the Greek Goddess of pouring oil on troubled waters.

Well, I suppose it could also be Huang-gun, the Chinese Incense God who was the first to think of burning perfumed oil and wood. Any mention of how the oil in question smells?

Or maybe Sesmu, the Egyptian God of Pressing Oil and Wine (separately, of course).

Or maybe it's just the world of Dale The Oily Diety Who Wants Attention.
I say Dale. the others would only do this to their followers... but Dale is just trying to get attention.

You're totally dating yourself with that reference. :D

:eek:

I'm only eighteen. :p

:eek:

I'm only eighteen. :p

Still?!?! :eek:

You've been eighteen for how many years now? :p

Still?!?! :eek:

You've been eighteen for how many years now? :p

0.30685 years to be exact. :D

Just because we don't know the scientific explanation to something doesn't mean there isn't one. I find that a lot easier to swallow than any supernatural baloney.

What do you non-believers make of this (http://au.todaytonight.yahoo.com/article/38725/lifestyle/house-miracles)?
This less-than-convinced wouldn't consider the death of someone miraculous.

And why exactly would the first conclusion be that God had something to do with it? Since this was borne from a calamity, perhaps the Devil's to blame for the oil and ash.

And what would be the purpose of this 'miracle' besides stirring attention?

I know that this isn't what you meant, but this is exactly the question that the Catholic Church asks when it starts investigating the miraculous. What's the point of this miracle? Or, as they put it, what are the fruits of this supposed miracle? Only when the miraculous event is "producing good fruit" -- things like causing renewal in people's faith, converting the unbeliever, or having miraculously physical healings associated with the event is it even seriously considered.

As you might have guessed from the above, I believe in miracles (though I have no idea whether this particular example is a miracle. We'll have to wait and see). Why? Because I'm so impressed with some of the miracle stories I've read... and the rigors by which the Catholic Church tested and tested and tested again the miracle. They almost exclusively just deal with medical miracles because the documentation of such cases makes them possible to investigate properly, among other reasons. They investigate to make sure that there was no conceivable way that there was any natural explanation for what occurred -- be it fraud, improper documentation of the ailment, or any mental of physical explanation... some of the stuff I'd never even think of testing. Theists will find it interesting that they even put in a great deal of thought about whether a demonic force might be the real cause behind the event. The Vatican employs some of the most respected doctors in their various fields to do these tests. I really can't do the process justice in this one little paragraph.

Very few miracles that are investigated on a diocesan level ever make it to Rome to even be considered. Of those, very few are declared miraculous. Even the slightest shadow of a doubt of a natural explanation will have an event given the final label of merely "extraordinary" but not "miraculous". Some people get the idea that the Catholic Church calls events "miraculous" every chance they get for publicity or some other motive. In fact, it's the exact opposite. They'd rather discount a real miracle as not miraculous than declaring something a miracle that isn't (which is why the priest in the original post is so clear on not speaking for the church but only as an individual beleiver). That sort of thing leads to embarrassment and destruction of believer's faith when somebody reveals that the so-called "miracle" had a natural explanation. And there are plenty of organizations who deal with the debunking of the seemingly miraculous.

I’ve tried finding a good article about the subject online, but couldn’t find one. I'am about to finish a book called The Miracle Detective written by Randall Sullivan, a non-Catholic writer for Rolling Stone. It’s a great resource for those interested in reading up on the subject of supposed miracles and how the Catholic Church deals with them. The book deals mostly with the investigations around Medjuorje, but also deals in passing with other miracles. For example, it briefly discusses a woman whose entire body was covered by third-degree burns and was basically a “lump of raw flesh” on her death bed at the hospital. But after the woman was prayed for, she healed over night and was good as new in the morning – not even a single scar.

I wouldn't touch any "oil" seeping from a teenage boy, dead or alive.

I believe this is an example of the miraculous depth of the gullibility of ignorant people.