NationStates Jolt Archive

I'd link to the site but it has several graphic images, and i'm abridging the text because it's probably borderline on what is reasonable here - detailed descriptions of the operation and all. Google is your friend if you want more, but fair warning, it's disturbing stuff.

This weekend I had a hole drilled through my skull. I read that this increased one’s consciousness permanently. I read about the supposed de-conditioning properties. I read about more parts of the brain working simultaneously as there would be more blood up there to help this happen. The arguments for it all seemed to be quite lengthy, quite detailed, thought out and researched, and very intelligent. The arguments against it were based solely on the opinion that it is ‘crazy’ and talk like, "What’s more conscious than conscious?". I heard from an acquaintance on telephone that she was glad she had done it, felt more mental energy, and had days of brilliance. I came to believe that the key to a permanent consciousness increase was a hole in the skull, to restore the full brain pulsation of infancy. After several months of research, discussion, speculation, watching surgical videos and trepanation documentaries, and even an actual viewing of a trepanation, I decided I certainly did want to be trepanned, and sought a way to do it.

The guy actually went through with the procedure, by completely untrained individuals in a less than sterile environment, whilst STILL CONSCIOUS. Why the fuck would anyone do that? How stupid can you be?

"Hmm, today, I think i'll get a hole drilled into my head for no reason."

Gah! OK, now that i'm already thoroughly freaked out, anyone think they can top that? This makes forked tongues and the like seem like nothing....

The following is pretty disturbing - if you feel queasy after the first sentence, you should probably stop. Fair warning...i'd link to the site but it has several graphic images. Google is your friend if you want the source.



Why the fuck would anyone do that? How stupid can you be?

"Hmm, today, I think i'll get a hole drilled into my head for no reason, by completely untrained individuals in a less-than-sterile environment."

Gah! OK, now that i'm already thoroughly freaked out, anyone think they can top that? This makes forked tongues and the like seem like nothing....
Dude, this isn't "body modification," this is seriously dangerous and twisted cult crap. All the shit about "brain pulsing" and "consciousness raising" is frightening bunk. Yowza.

Dude, this isn't "body modification," this is seriously dangerous and twisted cult crap. All the shit about "brain pulsing" and "consciousness raising" is frightening bunk. Yowza.

Yeah...and that's just the start of it...to be fair, he expresses concerns on the actual website that if his meninges was pierced and he began leaking cerebro-spinal fluid, he'd have to go to hospital, and...

My major fear, even more so than a mistake happening, was that I might have to rush to the hospital and they might’ve committed me if I told them how the hole got there.

lol. "might've"? Yeah...

Gah! OK, now that i'm already thoroughly freaked out, anyone think they can top that? This makes forked tongues and the like seem like nothing....

Well, there's always them cases with extreme dysmorphia who end up freezing their own limbs with dry ice until they are so irreparably damaged that surgeons have to amputate. I believe 'accidentally' shooting the unwanted limb with a shotgun or lying on railway tracks are other options.

Link - http://www.angielski.edu.pl/pokaz_artykul.html&id=617 - initially from the Grauniad.

...First I needed to freeze and kill the leg so that surgeons would amputate it afterwards. I ordered dry ice pellets from a company near Edinburgh (the same stuff that is used in discos for the smoke effect). Nobody asked what it was for. I bought 40kg - it evaporates very quickly, so you have to buy a great deal. I put on layers of pantyhose, because you do not want it sticking to you, spread it in the back of the car and sat with my leg immersed in it for one hour. The pain was indescribable: it hurt so much I passed out a few times. I was scared, but more so of failure. I am that kind of person - I never fail.
I had not damaged the leg enough to have it amputated in hospital, so the following September I made a second attempt, and this time I stayed in the dry ice for four hours. I was sat with my legs across the back seat of the car, the windows wide open and the footwell filled with dry ice, covering the leg and topping it up as it evaporated. When I could bear no more I called my husband, who came and pulled me out. The leg was hard as stone. I had third-degree burns and the pain was horrible. But it wasn't enough: I now know you need a minimum of six hours to kill a leg completely.
My husband drove me to hospital, but they refused to amputate. Incredibly, they said the wounds were superficial and that I would be walking within a few months. I really thought this time that the surgeon would give me the amputation I needed, but they seemed resolute. I went through all sorts of stages as they worked on my leg to save it. Sometimes I found the whole thing very funny, at other times I was crying, and sometimes I didn't think I would live through it. I reached my lowest point when they discharged me from hospital four weeks later, after eight sessions of surgery, with the leg still attached. I thought I was going to have to make a third attempt. But this time I would have to do it differently, perhaps put my leg under a train so they would have nothing more than a stump to stitch up.
I slowly recovered my strength back at home. I had dropped from 9 stone to under 7 stone during the operations and wanted to give myself time physically to recover before trying again. But the leg became so infected that there was a danger of the bacteria getting into the bloodstream and killing me. I had so much fever I was sleeping 24 hours a day. My mum sat by my bedside, waking me every hour to make sure I was still alive. She has known about my condition since I was a teenager, but I know it shocked her to see me finally make an attempt. After nine months of agony, I told my GP that if I didn't see someone fast, I would take off the leg myself. Within two days I had an appointment with a different surgeon.
The amputation, last June, went without a problem, and my left leg was removed from just above the knee. I felt better as soon as I came round. In fact, I felt so good in hospital that I was ready to go home straight away had they let me. My bag was packed and I was ready to leave. The Tuesday after the operation I drove myself home in an automatic car, and the next day I was almost back to my normal life.

I wonder: if someone is really determined to get their mate to drill a hole in their head with a dremel, is it actually in humanity's best interest for us to stop them?

I'd link to the site but it has several graphic images, and i'm abridging the text because it's probably borderline on what is reasonable here. Google is your friend if you want more, but fair warning, it's disturbing stuff.



The guy actually went through with the procedure, by completely untrained individuals in a less than sterile environment, whilst STILL CONSCIOUS. Why the fuck would anyone do that? How stupid can you be?

"Hmm, today, I think i'll get a hole drilled into my head for no reason."

Gah! OK, now that i'm already thoroughly freaked out, anyone think they can top that? This makes forked tongues and the like seem like nothing....

Meh horses for courses. It's a well researched thing, I think that it probaly brought the man the benifits he was talking about. If he feels the need to do this, it's his body I say good luck to him.

Might as well ask why people smoke or drink, after all both will kill you in the end.

I wonder: if someone is really determined to get their mate to drill a hole in their head with a dremel, is it actually in humanity's best interest for us to stop them?
I don't think so. It takes all kinds, right?

Though I had a look at the website, and it's probably just about the most stupid thing I've ever seen. Just as well that most people who try it probably die trying.

Yeah...and that's just the start of it...to be fair, he expresses concerns on the actual website that if his meninges was pierced and he began leaking cerebro-spinal fluid, he'd have to go to hospital and have his sanity put into question...
I'll say.

I think I am reacting to this particularly strongly because my mother had brain surgery this past December. She had to have a tumor removed from just above her cerebellum.

One thing her neurologist told us was that they have a saying when it comes to such surgeries: "Open the brain, never the same." When you open up the skull and start monkeying around near (or in) the brain you are in serious territory. Even in the best cases, the neurologist said that there are almost always permanent after-effects from such surgery. He listed so many possible after-effects that we were all pretty goddam freaked out.

(Happily, my mom's surgery went beautifully, and she has had a great recovery.)

It makes me ill to hear about somebody so casually drilling a hole in their skull. They obviously had no clue about what they were risking, and that makes me both sad and kinda scared. The internet often helps crazy fuckers spread their crazy to other people. That sucks.

Well, there's always them cases with extreme dysmorphia who end up freezing their own limbs with dry ice until they are so irreparably damaged that surgeons have to amputate. I believe 'accidentally' shooting the unwanted limb with a shotgun or lying on railway tracks are other options.

Link - http://www.angielski.edu.pl/pokaz_artykul.html&id=617 - initially from the Grauniad.

Ah, I do remember reading that article previously.

(Maybe this thread is saying too much about my internet surfing habits, but i'm pretty sure someone linked that one on here before.)

I wonder: if someone is really determined to get their mate to drill a hole in their head with a dremel, is it actually in humanity's best interest for us to stop them?

I'm leaning towards "hell no".

holy fuck :eek:

Seen something about this on the TV years ago. The individual travelled to a farmhouse (which was "on loan") to have the op done. As far as I remember there was no general anasthetic used. Soon after they had started, the people who owned the farmhouse - having been informed something odd was going on- arrived back and ordered them out.

I seem to remember that in order ti avoid prosecution the person was trying to do the cutting themselves, but I may be getting confused with something else....

I'll say.

I think I am reacting to this particularly strongly because my mother had brain surgery this past December. She had to have a tumor removed from just above her cerebellum.

One thing her neurologist told us was that they have a saying when it comes to such surgeries: "Open the brain, never the same." When you open up the skull and start monkeying around near (or in) the brain you are in serious territory. Even in the best cases, the neurologist said that there are almost always permanent after-effects from such surgery. He listed so many possible after-effects that we were all pretty goddam freaked out.

...

It makes me ill to hear about somebody so casually drilling a hole in their skull. They obviously had no clue about what they were risking, and that makes me both sad and kinda scared. The internet often helps crazy fuckers spread their crazy to other people. That sucks.

Indeed. If there's one part of your body that you don't want to take any chances with, it's your brain.

What especially concerns me in this case, however, is that someone was actually willing to perform this procedure. I think perhaps that individual is more worrysome than the weirdo who wanted a hole in his head...

As the article says:


Q: Did the friend who performed this procedure have any medical background?

A: No. They had cut and pierced themselves and others and had experience with implants and things along those lines.

Right...


(Happily, my mom's surgery went beautifully, and she has had a great recovery.)

Well, that's good to hear. :)

Eww eww eww.....

I so regret reading this. Now MY head hurts for him :headbang:

Eww eww eww.....

I so regret reading this. Now MY head hurts for him :headbang:

Don't say I didn't warn you...

You said borderline on reasoable :D

I think whoever went through with it might be mentally ill; on the other hand, the idea that people would be willing to drill a hole through someone else's skull creeps me out. They ought to be charged with grieveious body damage or something.

You said borderline on reasoable :D

I think whoever went through with it might be mentally ill; on the other hand, the idea that people would be willing to drill a hole through someone else's skull creeps me out. They ought to be charged with grieveious body damage or something.


I really don't understand that line of reasoning? Isn't it no differant than sadistic sex games?

I'll say.

I think I am reacting to this particularly strongly because my mother had brain surgery this past December. She had to have a tumor removed from just above her cerebellum.

One thing her neurologist told us was that they have a saying when it comes to such surgeries: "Open the brain, never the same." When you open up the skull and start monkeying around near (or in) the brain you are in serious territory. Even in the best cases, the neurologist said that there are almost always permanent after-effects from such surgery. He listed so many possible after-effects that we were all pretty goddam freaked out.

(Happily, my mom's surgery went beautifully, and she has had a great recovery.)

It makes me ill to hear about somebody so casually drilling a hole in their skull. They obviously had no clue about what they were risking, and that makes me both sad and kinda scared. The internet often helps crazy fuckers spread their crazy to other people. That sucks.

Indeed, the top left of my skull is now a titanium mesh, as there was a tumour eating through it that needed removal. It had gone through the first lining round the brain, but not the second so no fiddling about in the grey matter nessecary, luckily enough. Only side effect is they cut a muscle over my left ear which hurts like a bastard should it get cold enough.

This guy had his skill trepanned ...

...well, if he's happy with that, fine; but if in a few years he developes some malady due to this trepanation, well, I hope that at least he's going to PAY for the healthcare.

The idiot.:headbang:

Reminds me of Mason from Dead Like Me, drilled a hole in his head to get a permanent high, killed him of course.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mason_%28Dead_Like_Me%29

I really don't understand that line of reasoning? Isn't it no differant than sadistic sex games?

SM does not generally involve dealing out permanent, severe damages to a vital organ. When it does its no longer a game.

I'd say that trepanning certainly does increase your conciousness permanently. I makes you permanently concious that you have a damned hole in your head that leads directly to your brain that bypasses your body's natural method of defending said sqishy organ. I'd say it makes you very concious that anything getting into that hole could be a problem and that you probably should'nt use it for holding pencils.

I don't see a problem with people having holes drilled in their heads if they want to. Chances are good there's not much there to be damaged, after all. :p :rolleyes:

SM does not generally involve dealing out permanent, severe damages to a vital organ. When it does its no longer a game.

What I mean, is the comment that the chap doing the cutting should be up on a charge.

In sadosex games, needles can be used, some people let blood, but the point is it is all done with consent, in that respect is this any differant?

What I mean, is the comment that the chap doing the cutting should be up on a charge.

In sadosex games, needles can be used, some people let blood, but the point is it is all done with consent, in that respect is this any differant?

I believe so? It's like the case of this dude asking to be carved up and eaten in somewhere like Germany (or something). Consent was given but clearly the cannibal's actions cannot be condoned. Needling someone to the extent of dripping blood is nothing like drilling a hole through brain. Unless there is infection, needling does not conceivably pose a threat to health.

At the very less he is clearly not making an informed decisioin.

I've seen that site. Didn't re-Google it, but I'm sure I've seen the OP's quote before.

The kicker is, at the very end of that guy's entries (IIRC there is a part of the site broken up into several journal-like sections), he says that all the noticable effects eventually wore off, and he reverted to his old self despite the initial excitement. So he essentially didn't get any long-term "benefits" from it and went through that for nothing!

I think he's nuts, yet I'd always wondered what the result of trepanning would really be (but certainly NOT willing to test it). So I'm glad someone not only did it, but blabbed it on the Net for me to read from the comfort and safety of my desk :p

the health care system is burdened enough by average illnesses and injury-we dont need douchebags experimenting with their bodies and tools and clever ways of maiming themselves so they'll get an amputation.

fucking assholes with too much time.

I believe so? It's like the case of this dude asking to be carved up and eaten in somewhere like Germany (or something). Consent was given but clearly the cannibal's actions cannot be condoned. Needling someone to the extent of dripping blood is nothing like drilling a hole through brain. Unless there is infection, needling does not conceivably pose a threat to health.

At the very less he is clearly not making an informed decisioin.


I do get your point, it is basicaly one of degree's. Obviously then we can discount your cannibal example, I mean there certianly is a degree of differance in killing somebody and cutting them.

I think if the guy survied, and as I said in my first post, trepaning is a well documented and reseached practice, then the differance in the degree of actualy physical harm done by trepaning and certian radical sado sex games is negligable, in my mind.

I do get your point, it is basicaly one of degree's. Obviously then we can discount your cannibal example, I mean there certianly is a degree of differance in killing somebody and cutting them.

I think if the guy survied, and as I said in my first post, trepaning is a well documented and reseached practice, then the differance in the degree of actualy physical harm done by trepaning and certian radical sado sex games is negligable, in my mind.

But the people doing it to him are not trained medical professionals, thus making the entire exercise inherently unsafe and unethical. Trepanation may be well documented but I find it highly improbable to say that it is well researched, much less safe. As has been said anything related to the brain is dangerous, and apparently the guy gained no lasting benefits anyway. Thus also disproving the reliability of the so-called studies he looked up.

So I don't think it is in fact an issue with degrees, it is the nature of the process. How extreme can/does sm games get? For example it is my understanding that those who participate in erotic asphyxiation undertakes considerable precautions to prevent tragedy. Normal SM play differs significantly from this kind of 'body modification' on the point that they do not aim to cause extensive, permanent and potentially life-threatening damage.

i really hope this is some kind of sick joke...

I think if the guy survied, and as I said in my first post, trepaning is a well documented and reseached practice, then the differance in the degree of actualy physical harm done by trepaning and certian radical sado sex games is negligable, in my mind.
(Bold mine)

What do you mean by "well documented and researched practice"?

Yes, there is a lot of documentation and research about such practices occurring throughout human history. An anthro class I took once talked about cultures that believe it is necessary to drill holes in the skulls of sick people to let the evil spirits out.

So yes, there's lots of research about how this kind of stuff is done. But I have yet to encounter any credible research that supports recreational use of such methods, or which supports the idea that one can "expand consciousness" by drilling holes in one's skull.

But the people doing it to him are not trained medical professionals, thus making the entire exercise inherently unsafe and unethical. Trepanation may be well documented but I find it highly improbable to say that it is well researched, much less safe. As has been said anything related to the brain is dangerous, and apparently the guy gained no lasting benefits anyway. Thus also disproving the reliability of the so-called studies he looked up.

So I don't think it is in fact an issue with degrees, it is the nature of the process. How extreme can/does sm games get? For example it is my understanding that those who participate in erotic asphyxiation undertakes considerable precautions to prevent tragedy. Normal SM play differs significantly from this kind of 'body modification' on the point that they do not aim to cause extensive, permanent and potentially life-threatening damage.

Heh then I guess we disagree. Sado sex games can get very extreame, but I talk exclusivly of the type where blood and cutting come into play, and the people that indulge in such are also not trained medical professionals(heh or are they?)

A cut on the head, is stll a cut, that the bloke is alive, and gave his consent means that is is no differant(to my mind) then to haveing an arm cut deep enough to draw blood by a consentring sexual partner.

i really hope this is some kind of sick joke...

Bad news, me oul flower.

A cut on the head, is stll a cut, that the bloke is alive, and gave his consent means that is is no differant(to my mind) then to haveing an arm cut deep enough to draw blood by a consentring sexual partner.
What about the argument that the same injury will have radically different impacts depending on where on the body it occurs?

For instance, if somebody punches you hard enough to give you a serious bruise, it will make a big difference if they punch you in the head as opposed to on the arm. On the arm, the worst that happens is you get a really bad bruise, perhaps even break a bone. Same impact to, say, the back of your head, and you end up blind, brain damaged, or possibly dead.

To claim that a deep cut on the arm is no different from a deep cut to any other area is to overlook fundamental facts of human anatomy. An inch-deep cut on one's bicep is extremely serious, but an inch deep cut in one's neck, for instance, is far more likely to be fatal or permanently damaging.

What about the argument that the same injury will have radically different impacts depending on where on the body it occurs?

For instance, if somebody punches you hard enough to give you a serious bruise, it will make a big difference if they punch you in the head as opposed to on the arm. On the arm, the worst that happens is you get a really bad bruise, perhaps even break a bone. Same impact to, say, the back of your head, and you end up blind, brain damaged, or possibly dead.

To claim that a deep cut on the arm is no different from a deep cut to any other area is to overlook fundamental facts of human anatomy. An inch-deep cut on one's bicep is extremely serious, but an inch deep cut in one's neck, for instance, is far more likely to be fatal or permanently damaging.


Hey Bottle,

That is a very good point and one I agree with. Lets not overlook the facts of what this thread is about though. My little serious of posts here have been questioning the line that the chap that done the cutting should be up on a charge, I questioned this and equated it with more extream sado sex games.

In both cases, consent has been given, and as this bloke is still alive and healthy then I see no reason why the cutting fella should be up on a charge.

Trepanation .. been around for a long time.

Well, charges might have been a bit extreme, but there needs to be some sort of regulation. He was quite obviously misled into consenting to such an operation. Now I didn't read the details (too chicken...) but I assume whoever did it for him could not have explained the harmful side effects and lack of positive benefits to him very well for him to want to do it. Like I said then it is not informed consent.

SM play requires consent, and what Bottle said about injuries.

I've heard of this. I just don't understand why anyone would do this. The guy said he heard no valid argument against it? Try this: Your skull protects your brain, drilling a hole is leaving the most important non-replacable organ in your body exposed. Does he really think his skin is going to offer so much protection? He's risking brain damage and infection. No valid argument against? Was he asking children? WTF?

Heh then I guess we disagree. Sado sex games can get very extreame, but I talk exclusivly of the type where blood and cutting come into play, and the people that indulge in such are also not trained medical professionals(heh or are they?)

A cut on the head, is stll a cut, that the bloke is alive, and gave his consent means that is is no differant(to my mind) then to haveing an arm cut deep enough to draw blood by a consentring sexual partner.

Watch "Blind Beast", a Japanese movie made in the 60's.

A blind artist kidnaps a woman and holds her hostage in his warehouse where he keeps his scultpures, and he rapes her every now and then. Since he's blind, he keeps no lights in the warehouse, and it's always in darkness - her eyes suffer from atrophy and she goes blind as well.

When she's blind, she realizes her sense of touch is enhanced, and she enjoys having sex with him. But then regular sex is no longer enough - she needs to feel something more intense, and he's with her on this idea.

So then they resort to biting, drawing blood out of eachother. Then punching, then flails and whips, and finally, knives. They lose so much blood in the quest for ultimate pleasure, they realize they're going to die soon.

She feels that if she's to die, she wants to die in the most painful way he can give to her: she wants to take it a step further and have him cut off her arms and legs. He agrees, and says he will kill himself afterward so they can die together.

So they do.


Weirdass movie if I've ever seen one.

Well, charges might have been a bit extreme, but there needs to be some sort of regulation. He was quite obviously misled into consenting to such an operation. Now I didn't read the details (too chicken...) but I assume whoever did it for him could not have explained the harmful side effects and lack of positive benefits to him very well for him to want to do it. Like I said then it is not informed consent.

SM play requires consent, and what Bottle said about injuries.

I don't think that the bloke who performed the procedure had anything to do with his desicion to have it done. More along the lines of him getting a mate and saying 'Oi Fred chip a bit out of me skull would ya?'

Heh as to harmfull side effects it appears that he has none, whilst he did get the benifits that he wanted, at least for a time.

Hey Bottle,

That is a very good point and one I agree with. Lets not overlook the facts of what this thread is about though. My little serious of posts here have been questioning the line that the chap that done the cutting should be up on a charge, I questioned this and equated it with more extream sado sex games.

In both cases, consent has been given, and as this bloke is still alive and healthy then I see no reason why the cutting fella should be up on a charge.
Oh, well on that much we are agreed.

I think it's pretty clear that the nutjob in question consented to have this done. Hell, he pretty much begged for it.

If a medical professional had gone ahead and performed that kind of operation then I would advocate serious charges, because medical professionals would know exactly how dangerous and stupid it really was, and they are (at least in my country) sworn to safeguard the health of those in their care. They would be violating that trust, and would thus be in deep shit with me. But it sounds like a really stupid guy got his really stupid friends to help him do something really stupid. None of them were doctors, and clearly none of them had the least idea what they were really doing. They got lucky...nobody died.

Trepanation doesn't help raise consciousness. If you don't have increased pressure in your skull you need trepanation like you need a hole in the head.