NationStates Jolt Archive

I had to do a report about the religion and it's growth stagnation. I decided to concentrate the increase of christianity in non-third world nations. I took China where which if the present conversion rates to christianity keep up will by the year 2100 roughly have more christians then all of Europe combined. Now it could already be argued it has almost the same amount of practicing christians as europe.

At present there are about 70 million Protestants and about 12 million Catholics according to some estimates. Ranges are from 40-100 million. The number is considered more since there is an uncounted amount of underground christians in rural areas who refuse to take part in the government mandated services. Either ways 82 million+ chinese christians is still almost the size of the population of Germany, or a good bit bigger then the population of France or England.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity_in_China
http://www.nationalreview.com/interrogatory/aikman200312220001.asp
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1229123,00.html




Here is a typical christian mission from liveried personell and some military members of the army which had the leave to try and convert chinese villagers.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=wvEuQ4R9AhI


An official chinese church.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=nM11LB1X56s


I ask what do you personally think of a China that is becoming more and more christian? And possibly before this century is over become a christian nation? Would a China with a christian majority be a good or bad thing?

I think it'd be neither. Although it would be worrisome if a traditionalist movement were to emerge and backlash, but I don't think so. Plenty of people in China for all religions to share, plus more Oriental religions are laid-back enough to admit some competition.

I think it would be a good thing, as a large christian community would sometime pressure the government to be more democratic, as it isn't particularily 'christian' (I am not saying that that they would be the only group opposing the current regime).

I ask what do you personally think of a China that is becoming more and more christian? And possibly before this century is over become a christian nation? Would a China with a christian majority be a good or bad thing?

Good in the short term as demands for more religious freedom would lead to demands for greater freedom of speech and other social liberalisation. Long term is hard to predict without knowing what kind of Protestants they are; I guess if Islam is growing in China too then we might see a split between Christian and Muslim parts of the country.

I respectfully disagree. The rising numbers we're seeing is largely due to a reflex. Opening up to the outside world after years of hardline communism, the people are embracing religions which they were forbidden to prior to opening up. At the moment, most of that huge growth appears to the Chinese "catching up" on what they missed.

Even with ever increasing numbers, and hence stronger pressure, it is highly unlikely that there will be a significant policy change in the area of democracy and the freedom of speech. The push factors for full democracy would be economic. At the rate at which the Chinese economy is growing, it is running a huge risk of overheating, and hence crashing. In the event of a crash, the massive unemployment numbers seen now will swell further, and we all know what happens when there are large groups of unhappy people.

Anyway, who's to say whether religion will work there? But it seems to be working in Russia, and other post-communist states. So I guess China, and perhaps the world can benefit from increased religious activity. Not just Christianity of course.

This'll be why the Vatican has let the PRC dictate who's to be ordained in China - i.e. only good wholesome 'communists' ready and eager to tow the party line.

You want to know what might happen if Christianity takes root in China and looks like it could become an influencing force - and what the PRC might do about this?
Read up on the Falun Gong movement.
That'll tell you all you need to know about how the PRC treats any movement it fears could threaten it's own survival.

Good in the short term as demands for more religious freedom would lead to demands for greater freedom of speech and other social liberalisation. Long term is hard to predict without knowing what kind of Protestants they are; I guess if Islam is growing in China too then we might see a split between Christian and Muslim parts of the country.
Muslim would almost never grow in China cause the Chinese love their pork too much (dog also, but piggy is the biggy).

Honestly - that's one of the biggest reasons why there's so few Chinese Muslims. They love pig meat too much to give it up for anything.

Pigs have quite a big role in Chinese lore. It's one of the Chinese zodiac for a start.

I had to do a report about the religion and it's growth stagnation. I decided to concentrate the increase of christianity in non-third world nations. I took China where which if the present conversion rates to christianity keep up will by the year 2100 roughly have more christians then all of Europe combined. Now it could already be argued it has almost the same amount of practicing christians as europe.

At present there are about 70 million Protestants and about 12 million Catholics according to some estimates. Ranges are from 40-100 million. The number is considered more since there is an uncounted amount of underground christians in rural areas who refuse to take part in the government mandated services. Either ways 82 million+ chinese christians is still almost the size of the population of Germany, or a good bit bigger then the population of France or England.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity_in_China
http://www.nationalreview.com/interrogatory/aikman200312220001.asp
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1229123,00.html




Here is a typical christian mission from liveried personell and some military members of the army which had the leave to try and convert chinese villagers.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=wvEuQ4R9AhI


An official chinese church.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=nM11LB1X56s


I ask what do you personally think of a China that is becoming more and more christian? And possibly before this century is over become a christian nation? Would a China with a christian majority be a good or bad thing?
I think if China became more religious overall it would be good. The way the Chinese practice religious intolerance is quite troubling to me.
Worth noting; there are 20-100 Muslims in China though admittingly probably closer to 20 than to 100.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_China

I think if China became more religious overall it would be good. The way the Chinese practice religious intolerance is quite troubling to me.
Worth noting; there are 20-100 Muslims in China though admittingly probably closer to 20 than to 100.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_China


Yes they still have a tendency to crack down on religion. Islam has an old history in parts of western China.

However christianity is the fastest growing religion in China by far. The thing with Islam in China is that it is more an ethnic based belief. Certain ethnicities in western China have centuries old tradition of being muslim, however Islam is pretty unpopular outside those groups to Chinese in overall.

Could be because the chinese seem to love pork almost more then the germans or other reasons. At the moment Islam is not really increasing or decreasing in China. According to the official census's it actually decreased from the 50 odd million in the 1930s to the 20-30 million now.

Some of the appeals I apparently found out was;

1) Many chinese who went to western countries to study, converted there to christianity and brought it back with them once they returned. Hence many of the chinese elite are christian, the scientists, students and scholars, etc..

2) Many chinese are very tolerant of christian missionaries in China and are very positive about christians in general. Because during the rape of Nanking, a very sensitive subject with many chinese. It was western christian missionaries who helped thousands of chinese flee from the japanese soldiers. They were seen as one of the few small rays of hope for the common people as their government seemed to abandon them the common people to the mercy of the japanese invaders at times.

3) Converting to christianity is also seen as a small sign of passive resistance against the communistic government.

4) Same way that many people in the US or europe are fascinated with Buddhism and other oriental philosphies and traditions. For the chinese christianity is exotic and something new.

5) Buddhism is not a religion, merely a philosphy. So for some it fills an empty spot in their heart.

Yes they still have a tendency to crack down on religion. Islam has an old history in parts of western China.

However christianity is the fastest growing religion in China by far. The thing with Islam in China is that it is more an ethnic based belief. Certain Cethnicities in western China have centuries old tradition of being muslim, however Islam is pretty unpopular outside those groups to Chinese in overall.

thats true. I like the Mosques there, the way they bring Chinese design is neat(imo) but thats guess neither here or there.

Could be because the chinese seem to love pork almost more then the germans or other reasons.
Especially in the south, where I went. I had pork at nearly every meal, I wasn't Muslim at the time which is probably a good thing since I would have been in trouble food wise if I were.

Some of the appeals I apparently found out was;

1) Many chinese who went to western countries to study, converted there to christianity and brought it back with them once they returned. Hence many of the chinese elite are christian, the scientists, students and scholars, etc..

2) Many chinese are very tolerant of christian missionaries in China and are very positive about christians in general. Because during the rape of Nanking, a very sensitive subject with many chinese. It was western christian missionaries who helped thousands of chinese flee from the japanese soldiers. They were seen as one of the few small rays of hope for the common people as their government seemed to abandon them the common people to the mercy of the japanese invaders at times.

3) Converting to christianity is also seen as a small sign of passive resistance against the communistic government.

4) Same way that many people in the US or europe are fascinated with Buddhism and other oriental philosphies and traditions. For the chinese christianity is exotic and something new.

5) Buddhism is not a religion, merely a philosphy. So for some it fills an empty spot in their heart.
Thats interesting. Just out of curiousity, are you Christian?

Hopefully the leadership cracks down on this lunacy. :rolleyes:

Hopefully the leadership cracks down on this lunacy. :rolleyes:

Are you saying its ok for governments to oppress people based on religion?

Are you saying its ok for governments to oppress people based on religion?

Yes, that's exactly what he's saying.

Are you saying its ok for governments to oppress people based on religion?Oppression is such a hard word. It's rather about keeping their people mentally sane... ;)
After all China has such a great potential, and we don't want to ruin that.

Oppression is such a hard word. It's rather about keeping their people mentally sane... ;)

Good luck! http://www.clicksmilies.com/s1106/aetsch/cheeky-smiley-004.gif

thats true. I like the Mosques there, the way they bring Chinese design is neat(imo) but thats guess neither here or there.


Especially in the south, where I went. I had pork at nearly every meal, I wasn't Muslim at the time which is probably a good thing since I would have been in trouble food wise if I were.


Thats interesting. Just out of curiousity, are you Christian?

Tough question what I am. My mother is a lutheran and my father a roman catholic. Both non-practicing. They sent me to Catholic school for a few years. I was baptised Catholic as my father was married once before and had a child, my stepsister. Also my mother decided that she wanted all the children having the same religion so my brother and I were raised catholic.
However I don't go to church and am not that involved in faith either. I believe in God, however I have some small issues with a centralized religion. I find my faith very personal and would never mention it unless someone explicitly asks. I find that what and who I believe in is nobodies business.

However I must also be a devil incarnate for you. My maternal grandfather was born and raised a muslim until he was about 30 and met my grandmother. However my grandmother was a christian, and so my grandmothers family had a problem with it, they said he was a good guy but was of the wrong faith. So my grandfather converted from Islam to Lutheran christianity and my mother is also as I said a Lutheran and they had a christian wedding. What it means is I have some distant Muslim cousins somewhere that I met a few times at family reunions otherwise not much.