NationStates Jolt Archive


The EU is and always has been about France exploiting German guilt feelings

F1 Insanity
24-03-2007, 03:12
There are some very pervasive myths about the EU. The most common one of these is that according to many, the EU was founded to keep the peace in Europe. The real reason was quite different.

Many of these myths are succesfully challenged by Christopher Booker and Richard North in "The Great Deception: Can the European Union Survive?".

Jean Monnet (the socalled founding father of the EU) and his fellow travellers dreamed of a European federation ruled by a self-appointed elite of politicians. This was the goal in itself. And it still is, to some extent.

The EU's founder Jean Monnet described the EU's method: "Europe's nations should be guided towards a super state without their people understanding what is happening. This can be accomplished by successive steps each disguised as having an economic purpose, but which will eventually and irreversibly lead to federation." The single currency was the most important of these steps: as Monnet said, "Via money Europe could become political in five years."

Gutting the national parliaments and governments was a specific and deliberate part of this.

Another popular EU-myth is that its flagship policy, the CAP (common agricultural policy), was drawn up to adress food shortages. The real reason was, it was a cynical attempt by France at not having to reform but instead get everyone else to help pay farm subsidies to French farmers. By a significant margin, France is the #1 profiteer of the CAP.

http://eureferendum.blogspot.com/2007/03/getting-it-wrong.html

Far from there being any shortage of food at the time the Common Market came into being, the countries of western Europe, and particularly France, were awash with surpluses. They had overcome the immediate post-war difficulties and benefited from the explosion in agricultural productivity that took place in the late forties and early fifties.

In France, this productivity had been fuelled by massive state subsidies which, in insulating farmers from the realities of the market, meant that by 1961 – just before the CAP was to start coming into force – the farming population still accounted for 25 percent of all her employment, against only four percent in the United Kingdom.

As the surpluses grew, they had led to persistent downward pressures on prices, which in turn threatened the economic viability of the mass of French farms, many of them small, inefficient peasant holdings. And herein lies the true genesis of the CAP.

For France's politicians, this presented a nightmare: the thought of millions of small farmers being displaced from the land and gravitating to towns and cities which could offer them neither jobs nor housing.

...

To that effect, the then Fourth Republic had no option but to spend ever-increasing sums on farm subsidies, to the point where this expenditure threatened to bankrupt the state.

Yet the subsidies themselves only exacerbated the problem. They drew into production marginal land, while increased income encouraged investment in machinery. In 1950, the number of tractors in the Six as a whole had stood at only 370,000. By 1962 the number had grown to 2,300,000. Wheat production in the mid-1950s increased eight-fold. Sugar and wine production rose by over 300 percent. This necessitated ever-larger government-funded stockpiles and export subsidies.

By the early 1960s production was still increasing at a rate of 20 percent per annum. Eleven million of the 24 million dairy cows in the Six were French, each producing less than a quarter of the milk yield of Dutch animals. Dairy subsidies alone were costing the French taxpayer 1.35 billion francs (equivalent to £3 billion a year at 2003 prices), of which 70 million were used to dump powdered milk on the Indian and Mexican markets. Huge further sums were spent on storage and processing, while the surplus "butter mountain" stood at 200,000 tons. French farm policy was clearly unsustainable. Politically, however, it was essential.

So it was that, when de Gaulle took power in 1958, France's farm surpluses had already reached crisis point. Attempts to reform the subsidy system had met with stiff opposition, which presented a dangerous threat to his electoral base. De Gaulle was being forced to continue payments on a scale the French government could simply no longer afford.

At a crisis Cabinet meeting in August 1962, with the Algerian crisis now largely over, he was to call the "stabilisation" of agriculture the "most important problem" facing France. If the problems are not resolved, de Gaulle declared, "we will have another Algeria on our own soil".

De Gaulle and his advisers realised there were only two possible remedies: to find new export markets, or an additional source of finance for the subsidies. The answer to both might lie in the EEC.

What had become vital, they concluded, was to use it to set up an agricultural policy which could give French farmers access both to external markets and also to additional funding, primarily from Germany.

But it was vital that such a policy should be framed above all to meet the needs of France. Thus, despite his overt dislike of supranational institutions, de Gaulle came to regard the EEC as the most essential instrument in furthering France's national interest, the main aim being to put in place the Common Agricultural Policy.

As we can see, the CAP became not an instrument to promote the production of food or solve food shortages. It was first and foremost a mechanism to finance the surpluses and to manage the retreat from the land, brought about by the huge gains in agricultural productivity. More fundamentally, it ended up as being a means by which first German and then UK taxpayers paid for the transformation of French agriculture.

The CAP therefore, is a cynical and succesful attempt by France to get others to help pay its generous farm subsidies to its farmers.`

Germany ended up paying the lions share of them.
IL Ruffino
24-03-2007, 03:14
I disagree.
Arthais101
24-03-2007, 03:18
so in the 50 years of the EU and the precursors you find...one example in which things didn't work out in Germany's best interest?

Forgive me for not feeling that this is damning evidence, and I think your tinfoil hat is loose.
Call to power
24-03-2007, 03:19
So France being the 1# agricultural nation has nothing to do with it?

And blogs as source = giving me soiled toilet paper as news *hides copy of the Sun*
Pepe Dominguez
24-03-2007, 03:20
The CAP therefore, is a cynical and succesful attempt by France to get others to help pay its generous farm subsidies to its farmers.`

Germany ended up paying the lions share of them.

Germany needs to start throwing its weight around again. European politics are as boring as it gets. :(
Andaluciae
24-03-2007, 03:21
Germany needs to start throwing its weight around again. European politics are as boring as it gets. :(

It's gotten pretty lame over there. We need a mighty-fine general war...


...perhaps Switzerland and Liechtensten vs. Luxembourg?
Call to power
24-03-2007, 03:23
Germany needs to start throwing its weight around again. European politics are as boring as it gets. :(

but German troops don't fight anymore :( (maybe Austria should unite with Hungary again, teach those Slavs a lesson!)
Pepe Dominguez
24-03-2007, 03:27
but German troops don't fight anymore :( (maybe Austria should unite with Hungary again, teach those Slavs a lesson!)

Ah, wishful thinking. Ever since Macedonia calmed down, I've all but lost hope in another European war.. Those riots in France were a welcome diversion, but they just didn't satisfy. :( C'mon Germany, give us a 'police action' or something..
Chumblywumbly
24-03-2007, 03:32
It's gotten pretty lame over there. We need a mighty-fine general war...
It'll be all over by Christmas!
Deus Malum
24-03-2007, 03:32
Ah, wishful thinking. Ever since Macedonia calmed down, I've all but lost hope in another European war.. Those riots in France were a welcome diversion, but they just didn't satisfy. :( C'mon Germany, give us a 'police action' or something..

The best we can hope for at this point is civil disturbance in Berlin. Sucks, dudn't it?
Congo--Kinshasa
24-03-2007, 03:35
It's gotten pretty lame over there. We need a mighty-fine general war...


...perhaps Switzerland and Liechtensten vs. Luxembourg?

My money's on Luxembourg! :D
Call to power
24-03-2007, 03:35
Ah, wishful thinking. Ever since Macedonia calmed down, I've all but lost hope in another European war..

*looks at map* well I'm sorry Spain but we have to fight somewhere and easy jet can get me there for a pound…
Zarakon
24-03-2007, 03:41
Geez, are you stupid or something? The European Union was formed to declare carrots to be a fruit.

:D
Rubiconic Crossings
24-03-2007, 03:46
there were some riots in Denmark a couple of days ago....
Deus Malum
24-03-2007, 03:49
there were some riots in Denmark a couple of days ago....

Yeah, but that was over a building. We need full scale riots, damnit.
Zarakon
24-03-2007, 03:53
Yeah, but that was over a building. We need full scale riots, damnit.

I agree. I want some riots that lend themselves to news graphics and punk rock songs.
F1 Insanity
24-03-2007, 03:55
Ah, wishful thinking. Ever since Macedonia calmed down, I've all but lost hope in another European war.. Those riots in France were a welcome diversion, but they just didn't satisfy. :( C'mon Germany, give us a 'police action' or something..

Wait until muslims constitute a higher percentage. They will start demanding privileges and recognition of 'islamic law'.
F1 Insanity
24-03-2007, 03:56
so in the 50 years of the EU and the precursors you find...one example in which things didn't work out in Germany's best interest?

Forgive me for not feeling that this is damning evidence, and I think your tinfoil hat is loose.

That's just one example (which constitutes well near 50% of the EU's budget)

The whole thing is run this way. You have been brainwashed by the EU-elite a wee bit too much.
Deus Malum
24-03-2007, 03:58
That's just one example (which constitutes well near 50% of the EU's budget)

The whole thing is run this way. You have been brainwashed by the EU-elite a wee bit too much.

Oh great, another conspiracy theorist. *yawn*

Can someone wake me up when he's done putting his tinfoil hat on?
Rubiconic Crossings
24-03-2007, 03:58
Yeah, but that was over a building. We need full scale riots, damnit.

LOL! Indeed....well its a Friday night....just go to any UK city centre...
Call to power
24-03-2007, 03:59
Wait until muslims constitute a higher percentage. They will start demanding privileges and recognition of 'islamic law'.

hmm you and the right VS. reality

*imagines* (http://youtube.com/watch?v=xSZXBIoG6ZA)
F1 Insanity
24-03-2007, 04:02
Oh great, another conspiracy theorist. *yawn*

Can someone wake me up when he's done putting his tinfoil hat on?

You should read 'the great deception' and find out what the EU is really about. And yes, it is a conspiracy. A conspiracy to destroy national democracy and replace it with the rule by a self-appointed elite.
Pepe Dominguez
24-03-2007, 04:02
Wait until muslims constitute a higher percentage. They will start demanding privileges and recognition of 'islamic law'.

Demanding privileges from who? There'll be hardly any native Europeans left by that point, so no one to be bothered by Shari'a.. no harm no foul, I say. After all, Europe's going to need a billion immigrants in the next fifty years to sustain economic growth. By that time, the majority of people may want Shari'a. Me, I'll be comfortably retired in a still-democratic country, so no harm there. :p
Deus Malum
24-03-2007, 04:03
You should read 'the great deception' and find out what the EU is really about. And yes, it is a conspiracy. A conspiracy to destroy national democracy and replace it with the rule by a self-appointed elite.

*shrug* Read something published by David Icke. You'll learn about how Bush and the Royal Families of the world are lizardpeople in disguise.

Just because someone published a book about it, doesn't make it true.
Rubiconic Crossings
24-03-2007, 04:05
You should read 'the great deception' and find out what the EU is really about. And yes, it is a conspiracy. A conspiracy to destroy national democracy and replace it with the rule by a self-appointed elite.

Here....you might enjoy this as well..:rolleyes:

www.bilderberg.org
Call to power
24-03-2007, 04:07
the rule by a self-appointed elite.

but that’s what its like anyway...and I couldn't get on the student council because I saw the puppetry for what it was :mad:

Death to the chess club elite!
Rubiconic Crossings
24-03-2007, 04:09
but that’s what its like anyway...and I couldn't get on the student council because I saw the puppetry for what it was :mad:

Death to the chess club elite!

Damn those Chessians! Damn them to Hell!
F1 Insanity
24-03-2007, 04:11
Demanding privileges from who? There'll be hardly any native Europeans left by that point, so no one to be bothered by Shari'a.. no harm no foul, I say. After all, Europe's going to need a billion immigrants in the next fifty years to sustain economic growth. By that time, the majority of people may want Shari'a. Me, I'll be comfortably retired in a still-democratic country, so no harm there. :p

No majority has the right to impose shari'a anywhere. For islam is nothing but the demented ravings of the perverted warmonger Muhammad.

We are not going to need any immigrants. We need to reduce world population, not increase it.
Shasoria
24-03-2007, 04:12
Regardless as to theories about the conception of the EU (put emphasis on theories), Federation in Europe is essential to the long-term survival of Europe as a top-dog within humanity. Europe is currently too segmented to last when sandwiched between Russia and China, and America, from an economic standpoint. And as we see larger economies grow from the second and third world, Europe will feel the mounting pressure to form a federation, and it'll be in the best interests of the community.

Nevermind from a militaristic standpoint - Europe is currently like the 12 pins at the end of the bowling alley - you knock one down, and it'll take 3 with it. Nations by and large aren't spending jack-squat on defence. Now I know, what threats are there to fight against? None, right now. Give that time and it will undoubtedly change. We take comfort in 60 years of peace, liberalism, and capitalism, but the world doesn't work the same way where ever you go.

Even if the EU federation does not work out, you will see larger federations form based on more specific cultures - odds are, we'd see 5 or 6 if not 1 or 2 - because in the end, that's going to be what protects everyone the best, especially in a world where superpowers are forming with million-man armies and defence budgets that dwarf Europe's.
Chumblywumbly
24-03-2007, 04:14
No majority has the right to impose shari'a anywhere. For islam is nothing but the demented ravings of the perverted warmonger Muhammad.

We are not going to need any immigrants. We need to reduce world population, not increase it.
Churchill the Insurance Dog says: "Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no."

*shakes head, jowels a-wobbling*
Pepe Dominguez
24-03-2007, 04:15
Europe is currently like the 12 pins at the end of the bowling alley - you knock one down, and it'll take 3 with it.

European bowling is twelve-pin? Aw, I gotta try that. :p
Call to power
24-03-2007, 04:17
No majority has the right to impose shari'a anywhere.

Don’t see why not if all the population wants sharia then that is what they shall have

Why do you hate freedom!

For islam is nothing but the demented ravings of the perverted warmonger Muhammad.

I could say that’s every religion but its much more fun to call you mad for suggesting Muhammad is the sole creator of Islam

We are not going to need any immigrants. We need to reduce world population, not increase it.

no that would destroy demand thus more or less sending us back to the stone age (yay anarchy but it will be the shitty kind:( )
Pepe Dominguez
24-03-2007, 04:18
No majority has the right to impose shari'a anywhere. For islam is nothing but the demented ravings of the perverted warmonger Muhammad.

We are not going to need any immigrants. We need to reduce world population, not increase it.

Eh.. those are some interesting opinions, but I believe reality is on a different path. Shari'a is already used in some cases in Canada where local Muslim participants want it, and will probably spread around Europe in non-criminal matters. The leap to adopting Shari'a in 50 years when Muslim immigrants are the majority isn't hard to believe. As for the need for immigrants, I probably don't need to remind you of the decaying population base among native Europeans..
Neu Leonstein
24-03-2007, 12:44
It may be a good idea to read up about Konrad Adenauer's (then still as mayor of Cologne) disputes with Gustav Stresemann about Weimar Germany's foreign policy.

Stresemann was very much of the Bismarckian persuasion and wanted Germany to play the old game of not offending anyone. Adenauer was adamant that Germany's place was in Western Europe, particularly in a peace, friendship and eventual alliance with France. So when he became post-war Chancellor, there was hardly ever any doubt which way he'd go.

So at least from the German side, there are your motives.
Baratstan
24-03-2007, 13:20
You should read 'the great deception' and find out what the EU is really about. And yes, it is a conspiracy. A conspiracy to destroy national democracy and replace it with the rule by a self-appointed elite.

Are you basing all your opinions on one source? (Which is evidentally biased from the title). You could really do with broadening your view of the matter and read around some more.

For islam is nothing but the demented ravings of the perverted warmonger Muhammad.

Right. This is starting to get a little bit to trollish.
Cabra West
24-03-2007, 14:32
<snippy>

The EU gave this particular German the posibility to turn her life around, start a good career in another EU country and find the love of her life.

I somehow don't feel that my guilt is being exploited by any Frenchmen, sorry.
Nodinia
24-03-2007, 15:08
There are some very pervasive myths about the EU. The most common one of these is that according to many, the EU was founded to keep the peace in Europe. The real reason was quite different.

Many of these myths are succesfully challenged by Christopher Booker and Richard North in "The Great Deception: Can the European Union Survive?".

Jean Monnet (the socalled founding father of the EU) and his fellow travellers dreamed of a European federation ruled by a self-appointed elite of politicians. This was the goal in itself. And it still is, to some extent.

The EU's founder Jean Monnet described the EU's method: "Europe's nations should be guided towards a super state without their people understanding what is happening. This can be accomplished by successive steps each disguised as having an economic purpose, but which will eventually and irreversibly lead to federation." The single currency was the most important of these steps: as Monnet said, "Via money Europe could become political in five years."

Gutting the national parliaments and governments was a specific and deliberate part of this.

Another popular EU-myth is that its flagship policy, the CAP (common agricultural policy), was drawn up to adress food shortages. The real reason was, it was a cynical attempt by France at not having to reform but instead get everyone else to help pay farm subsidies to French farmers. By a significant margin, France is the #1 profiteer of the CAP.

http://eureferendum.blogspot.com/2007/03/getting-it-wrong.html



The CAP therefore, is a cynical and succesful attempt by France to get others to help pay its generous farm subsidies to its farmers.`

Germany ended up paying the lions share of them.

EU Directive 1023 (b) designates this kind of thing "a load of wank".
Nodinia
24-03-2007, 15:14
We need to reduce world population, not increase it.

Right then. Back your words with actions. Leave your password in the note so whoever finds you can tell us all has gone well. Have a good one.