NationStates Jolt Archive

I want to understand racism and i cant,
im from the Black Country in the UK, i was born to a catholic father and a Jewish mother, im not religiuos but like the community aspect of my mothers faith, i study Evolution and Palaeoanthropology and as such realise that race is a construct that doesnt truly exist.
Why do people hate for no reason other than colour or creed?
what does it mean when people say 'they should go back where they came from' im surrounded by asian communities that were born and brought up around me and i gotta say i love the food.

please discuss, help me to get it.

I hate blacks, jews, and mexicans. Why? They kick my dog. :(

Where's the "Black Country"?

racism is just a counterproductive way of deciding who is "us" and who is "them".

I'm Black, and I don't see that much prejudice.

They're not like me in every way. What better reason?

Where's the "Black Country"?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Black_Country
The Black Country is a loosely-defined area of the English West Midlands conurbation, to the north and west of Birmingham, and to the south and east of Wolverhampton, around the South Staffordshire coalfield.

Why do people hate for no reason other than colour or creed?
Creed means doctrine, not race.

It's got a lot to do with the fact that people are pretty fucking stupid.

Racism is just an extension of tribalism; a basic human societal construct. Our basic human need to form communities for our collective self-interest has historically operated on the assumption that the people in your community are genetically, culturally and societally like you. People who you don't identify as part of your 'tribe', are therefore subject to different treatment.

Race is the most visually declarative statement of 'tribe'. So, historically, it's been easier to single out people of a different race (a societal construct) because of the obvious cosmetic differences. Add that to the societal repercussions of discord between people of different 'tribes' and you have a situation that's difficult to escape from.

It's about making the psychological leap of realizing that we're all in the same tribe.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Black_Country
Cheers ma dears!

I want to understand racism and i cant,
im from the Black Country in the UK, i was born to a catholic father and a Jewish mother, im not religiuos but like the community aspect of my mothers faith, i study Evolution and Palaeoanthropology and as such realise that race is a construct that doesnt truly exist.
Why do people hate for no reason other than colour or creed?
what does it mean when people say 'they should go back where they came from' im surrounded by asian communities that were born and brought up around me and i gotta say i love the food.

please discuss, help me to get it.
you need to study psychology.

Racism is nothing but focusing on that which is different. Humans, and all animals fear that which is different.

but animals normally focus on the physical manifistations of different. humans can delve into the non physical; ideals, habits, even environmental. the only way to remove racism is to control the exposure. make it slow, gradual and it will be accepted alot easier than just springing it on someone.

well I could say its to do with scapegoats and the bullies who got there arses kicked in school for being penises (you know the type who impregnate 11 year olds) but that would be far too rational for this…

I blame the welsh! :p

Out of interest I did have some council folk black kid (that sounds unintentionally PC but African would be ridiculous considering he had a Manchester accent) call me and a girl I was walking home “white boy taking his bitch home”…his mum ran out about 30 seconds later to call me a thug :D

I want to understand racism and i cant,
im from the Black Country in the UK, i was born to a catholic father and a Jewish mother, im not religiuos but like the community aspect of my mothers faith, i study Evolution and Palaeoanthropology and as such realise that race is a construct that doesnt truly exist.
Why do people hate for no reason other than colour or creed?
what does it mean when people say 'they should go back where they came from' im surrounded by asian communities that were born and brought up around me and i gotta say i love the food.

please discuss, help me to get it.

Stupidity. Racism is caused by stupid people.

<edit> Please note that I am not saying all stupid people are racist.

well I could say its to do with scapegoats and the bullies who got there arses kicked in school for being penises (you know the type who impregnate 11 year olds) but that would be far too rational for this…

I blame the welsh! :p

Out of interest I did have some council folk black kid (that sounds unintentionally PC but African would be ridiculous considering he had a Manchester accent) call me and a girl I was walking home “white boy taking his bitch home”…his mum ran out about 30 seconds later to call me a thug :D

oddly enough, i blame the welsh too!

racism is just a counterproductive way of deciding who is "us" and who is "them".

Well, we could use clothing too, but it's just so much more efficient this way.

:p

ok where does the 'they should go back where they come from thing end. seeing as humans are from africa. should we all move back there. should america and australia repopulate europe?

ok where does the 'they should go back where they come from thing end. seeing as humans are from africa. should we all move back there. should america and australia repopulate europe?

i believe it ends as soon as the words leave the bigots mouth. no one is going back. for most people that doesnt even make sense as they have never lived "where they came from"

Racism is just an extension of tribalism; a basic human societal construct. Our basic human need to form communities for our collective self-interest has historically operated on the assumption that the people in your community are genetically, culturally and societally like you. People who you don't identify as part of your 'tribe', are therefore subject to different treatment.

Race is the most visually declarative statement of 'tribe'. So, historically, it's been easier to single out people of a different race (a societal construct) because of the obvious cosmetic differences. Add that to the societal repercussions of discord between people of different 'tribes' and you have a situation that's difficult to escape from.

It's about making the psychological leap of realizing that we're all in the same tribe.
Genetic testing might be the technology that helps us make that leap more easily. If you're an honest person, it's tough to brag about your racial purity when it turns out you're as much a mutt as everyone else around you. And it's easier for the rest of us to point fingers and laugh.

People are stupid and need scapegoats. So when none are available, certain idiots will blame those who look different for whatever ill "needs" blaming for.

Racism is probably a result of past ideas held that have continued through whatever evils. It is also somewhat of a result of cultural differences that still exist between races as well which worsens racial divides.

Genetic testing might be the technology that helps us make that leap more easily. If you're an honest person, it's tough to brag about your racial purity when it turns out you're as much a mutt as everyone else around you. And it's easier for the rest of us to point fingers and laugh.

Yeah. I remember a documentary on race I saw in Soc. 101 where a bunch of high school kids of varying ethnic backgrounds took comparative DNA tests, and found out that many of them shared DNA significantly closer to various other ethnicities than their own.

Genetic testing might be the technology that helps us make that leap more easily. If you're an honest person, it's tough to brag about your racial purity when it turns out you're as much a mutt as everyone else around you. And it's easier for the rest of us to point fingers and laugh.

That would help. And I'd join in on the finger pointing.

But it's not a simple thing to do, if you're honest. We all arbitrarily define ourselves as something, whether it be a race, religion, nationality or particular ideology. It's just how we evolved. Getting past racism is usually by finding another way of identifying what your 'tribe' is. For some it's nationality, some religion, and so on.

That would help. And I'd join in on the finger pointing.

But it's not a simple thing to do, if you're honest. We all arbitrarily define ourselves as something, whether it be a race, religion, nationality or particular ideology. It's just how we evolved. Getting past racism is usually by finding another way of identifying what your 'tribe' is. For some it's nationality, some religion, and so on.
Oh absolutely--we all "other" to some extent. I try to make my in-group as large as possible and keep the knee-jerk othering to a minimum, because that's where the real problems come in. To paraphrase Dennis Miller (from back when he was funny), why hate people for something as stupid as skin color when you can get to know them and have a reason?

Oh absolutely--we all "other" to some extent. I try to make my in-group as large as possible and keep the knee-jerk othering to a minimum, because that's where the real problems come in. To paraphrase Dennis Miller (from back when he was funny), why hate people for something as stupid as skin color when you can get to know them and have a reason?

Ah, the days when Dennis Miller was funny!

I really gotta get my flux capacitor fixed so I can go back to the 20th century. :(

(And I totally agree with Dennis Miller's statement.)

Ah, the days when Dennis Miller was funny!

I really gotta get my flux capacitor fixed so I can go back to the 20th century. :(

(And I totally agree with Dennis Miller's statement.)

im quite bitter about him going over to the dark side

couldnt he at least be funny about it?

im quite bitter about him going over to the dark side

couldnt he at least be funny about it?

My personal tastes in comedy lean toward poking a finger in the eye of authority. Conservatives rarely do that because deep down they love authority, and so their comedy often consists of poking fun at the powerless, which is just not funny to me.

Why?

Because people are ignorant,and fearful.

Why be fearful?
Because they are afraid of something they dontunderstand.

I live in a very racist neighborhood.I am white but am not racist.I havelived in this village my wholelife and have been around racism since i was very young.I am good friends with some of the racists in my neighborhood.They are not bad people,good people at heart,but they were raised in a white neighborhood knowing it there whole life.When they see another culture,they are afraid and dont understand.

I am thankful that I was able to for my own opinion on the matter.

im quite bitter about him going over to the dark side

couldnt he at least be funny about it?

The jokes are always less funny when they're directed at your camp. I actually saw him live last year. He was funny. But not that funny. And there were moments that kinda made you cringe.

Humans are by nature pack animals like wolves. The difference is humans can pick their pack, wolves are born into a pack. In order to have a pack there has to be a difference between "us" and "them". That can be that they go to a different school, root for a different team, work in the same office, go to the same church, same country (nationalism)......any number of things. Some of the most obvious differences are the color of skin, shape of eyes, length of nose, dialect, language...... And packs change as you probably belong to several different packs, but each of those packs have an exclusivity. There are only certain people that can belong to each of your packs. As you look at your groups, what do you have in common? Who do you exclude? That all identifies your pack.

I grew up in a German ancestry community in the US. They wouldn't let their children date Germans from the next town because their ancestry was from the wrong part of Germany. All us nonGermans could see was one town drank beer and the other drank wine. But the pack was set three generations before and they would not mix. Certainly they wouldn't date a nonGerman.

The point is, a human biologically and mentally needs to belong to a group of some kind. It need not be a group based on race but often is. If a person can't identify with a group they go crazy. Notice that nearly every time there is a mass murderer he is described as a "loner".

With all of that said, I want to repeat that humans can choose their pack and how they relate to those of other packs.

Yeah. I remember a documentary on race I saw in Soc. 101 where a bunch of high school kids of varying ethnic backgrounds took comparative DNA tests, and found out that many of them shared DNA significantly closer to various other ethnicities than their own.

There's a guy that did a film for PBS that did DNA on famous African American people and compared it to DNA of various African tribes. The funny part was he used maternal "X" DNA. When he did a test on himself he found out that his maternal ancestry all came from Europe. Apparently he was descended of a white woman and a black man several hundred years ago.

I want to understand racism and i cant,
im from the Black Country in the UK, i was born to a catholic father and a Jewish mother, im not religiuos but like the community aspect of my mothers faith, i study Evolution and Palaeoanthropology and as such realise that race is a construct that doesnt truly exist.
Why do people hate for no reason other than colour or creed?
what does it mean when people say 'they should go back where they came from' im surrounded by asian communities that were born and brought up around me and i gotta say i love the food.

please discuss, help me to get it.

Racial prejudice is caused by negative stereotypes of other races. Racially motivated hatred is caused by experiences (personal or second-hand) that support those stereotypes. Of course, racists ignore the experiences, which don't support them, as exceptions to the rule.

I would like someone to explain how race doesn't exist. People from different races have more genetic differences than just skin color. Bone structure and hormone levels, for example. There are even medical drugs that are only prescribed to a certain race, because they don't work as well on others (I think a thread about it was made on this forum last year). Whether these differences are enough to warrant hatred, is a different thing, but it seems annoyingly ignorant to claim that race doesn't exist.

Skin color has nothing to do with racism. It's just that skin color is the most prominent indication of a person's race, and therefore it is used to identify them as a group.

It's got a lot to do with the fact that people are pretty fucking stupid.

Actually that is not true. The majority of racist belong to the stereotypical low class, low intelligence and good for nothing group. However read a few books about racism and it's psychological aspects.
For example some of the most ardent racists were born into what they hated. I had a seminar which concentrated on one of the most infamous self-hating jews. (http://www.nypress.com/16/8/news&columns/oldsmoke.cfm ). Also read this book; The Life and Death of an American-Jewish Nazi by A. M. Rosenthal and Arthur Gelb (New American Library, 1967).

A short review of him. He was always described as extremely intelligent, he was fondly rememberred by his teachers as being exceptionally bright. Which makes his story all the more interesting. ;

He had an IQ of 154. His grades at John Adams High School ranged from 85 to 95 in most subjects–excepting Hebrew. In adolescence, he became intense, even faintly hysterical, playing every game as if his life depended on it, breaking into a sweat if he feared he was losing

Then John McCandlish Phillips asked Daniel Burros how he had become a Nazi. The 28-year-old Burros, squat, blue-eyed, with crew-cut blond hair, talked about his admiration of the Third Reich and his hatred of the Jews, gloating that their purge in the United States would be far more violent than it had been in a "civilized and highly cultured" country like Germany.


This is just one curious example. Hardly dumb when he is probably more intelligent then most non-racists posting here, me included. There are countless more. Racism goes through all classes, ethnicities and educational levels. To try and stereotype something as complex as racism, to "It's just dumb people" etc,.. you are clouding the issue more with wishthinking and poleimic then helping solve it, since that is clearly not the case.
Several movies and books tried to portray this already, that racism has nothing to do with how smart you are. American history X is another example, the main protagonist is also a young intelligent person who fell into the traps of racism. However some people wish to cling to the idea that education and intelligence are the clear cut solution to racism. This is clearly not true.
There are many theories about racism. Some say it is all a social construct, some claim it is also partly genetic with some people more susceptible to it then others as to cause variation. Either way it is often the result of role models, upbringing, and experiences.

I want to understand racism and i cant

What other excuse do grown men have to dress up in ghost costumes and play hide and seek?

Well there you go!

I want to understand racism and i cant,
im from the Black Country in the UK, i was born to a catholic father and a Jewish mother, im not religiuos but like the community aspect of my mothers faith, i study Evolution and Palaeoanthropology and as such realise that race is a construct that doesnt truly exist.
Why do people hate for no reason other than colour or creed?
what does it mean when people say 'they should go back where they came from' im surrounded by asian communities that were born and brought up around me and i gotta say i love the food.

please discuss, help me to get it.

Because they are idiots.

It's simply "us" and "them". The only way we'll ever all be "us" is if we find an alien species who can be "them".

Help me to get it.
Nothing to get. It's pointless hatred.

http://echosphere.net/star_trek_insp/insp_racism.png

But yeah, racism sucks.

I want to understand racism and i cant,
im from the Black Country in the UK, i was born to a catholic father and a Jewish mother, im not religiuos but like the community aspect of my mothers faith, i study Evolution and Palaeoanthropology and as such realise that race is a construct that doesnt truly exist.
Why do people hate for no reason other than colour or creed?
what does it mean when people say 'they should go back where they came from' im surrounded by asian communities that were born and brought up around me and i gotta say i love the food.

please discuss, help me to get it.
Simple ignorance and jealousy.

I would like someone to explain how race doesn't exist. People from different races have more genetic differences than just skin color. Bone structure and hormone levels, for example. There are even medical drugs that are only prescribed to a certain race, because they don't work as well on others (I think a thread about it was made on this forum last year). Whether these differences are enough to warrant hatred, is a different thing, but it seems annoyingly ignorant to claim that race doesn't exist.

Skin color has nothing to do with racism. It's just that skin color is the most prominent indication of a person's race, and therefore it is used to identify them as a group.



i will make an attempt to answer you, the thing is that over the past couple of thousand years human beings have interbred with different populations a lot (including according to some recent work, neanderthals) and our dna has been well and truly mixed up.

the genetic varience of each and every one of us is massive, pick pretty much anyone off the street; do a dna test and your almost guaranteed to find out something about them that they didnt know.

for example go back just four generations into your family tree to your 16 great great grandparents can you without doubt say who they all were? go back one generation more and tell me you know for a fact that none of those 32 relatives werent black, native american, hispanic or icelandic. also the very fact that so called different races can breed and have fertile offspring proves that we are one species, race.

one well known example is horses and donkeys, they can create mules as offspring, mules though are sterile thus proving that the horse and the donkey are of a seperate race.

Skin colour is a rubbish denominater too. its caused by a sun reactive pigmant called menolin, wich is a dominant darker pigment. in one generation menolin can make a long line of albinos apear to be true Zimbabweans. if most white people spend enough time in the sun they change colour themselves sometimes dramatically. does this mean a person can change race?

a true denominater of regional ethnicity is teeth, you tell a lot about a persons biological history from them.

long post i know but i hope it helped. cheers

I want to understand racism and i cant,
im from the Black Country in the UK, i was born to a catholic father and a Jewish mother, im not religiuos but like the community aspect of my mothers faith, i study Evolution and Palaeoanthropology and as such realise that race is a construct that doesnt truly exist.
Why do people hate for no reason other than colour or creed?
what does it mean when people say 'they should go back where they came from' im surrounded by asian communities that were born and brought up around me and i gotta say i love the food.

please discuss, help me to get it.

It's true that the human race shares most genes together, it doesn't matter if you're white, black, brown, yellow, whatever. But that doesn't change the fact that some people will continue to judge one another based solely on looks.

i will make an attempt to answer you, the thing is that over the past couple of thousand years human beings have interbred with different populations a lot (including according to some recent work, neanderthals) and our dna has been well and truly mixed up.

the genetic varience of each and every one of us is massive, pick pretty much anyone off the street; do a dna test and your almost guaranteed to find out something about them that they didnt know.

for example go back just four generations into your family tree to your 16 great great grandparents can you without doubt say who they all were? go back one generation more and tell me you know for a fact that none of those 32 relatives werent black, native american, hispanic or icelandic. also the very fact that so called different races can breed and have fertile offspring proves that we are one species, race.

one well known example is horses and donkeys, they can create mules as offspring, mules though are sterile thus proving that the horse and the donkey are of a seperate race.

Skin colour is a rubbish denominater too. its caused by a sun reactive pigmant called menolin, wich is a dominant darker pigment. in one generation menolin can make a long line of albinos apear to be true Zimbabweans. if most white people spend enough time in the sun they change colour themselves sometimes dramatically. does this mean a person can change race?

a true denominater of regional ethnicity is teeth, you tell a lot about a persons biological history from them.

long post i know but i hope it helped. cheers

Thanks.

I think the main source of confusion for me here is the definition of race. You seem to suggest that it's synonymous with species, whereas I use it synonymously with breed (e.g. different kinds of dogs). Horses and donkeys aren't separate races, they're entire separate species.

Since my family has always (= more than the 5 generations you asked for, and yes, I can trace them) lived in Finland, a very remote and introverted society, I'm fairly sure without checking that I don't have black, native american or hispanic ancestry. I do know, however, that I have Swedish blood, and I wouldn't be surprised if I had some Russian too. But I get your point. Very few people are pure specimens of their race. The thing is, as mixed up as our genes might be, they're still very far from homogenous, and the effect of one black ancestor among 31 white ones would be very small in any case. Therefore, races exist as long as a person's ancestral roots can be estimated from their appearance.

Besides, I don't think there's a reason why a race couldn't be subject to change through either evolution or interbreeding. Or completely new races emerging with them. Again, I compare humans to different breeds of dogs.

And like I said, skin color doesn't define race all by itself. It's just the most obvious way to recognize people of different races. Other such ways include eye color and shape, and skull shape. In fact, according to some modern theories, the main races (white, black, yellow) can all be divided into several races, but since I haven't studied that further, I'm not going to say more about it.

Anyway, I'm drunk and very tired. I hope this post makes sense.

I want to understand racism and i cant,
im from the Black Country in the UK, i was born to a catholic father and a Jewish mother, im not religiuos but like the community aspect of my mothers faith, i study Evolution and Palaeoanthropology and as such realise that race is a construct that doesnt truly exist.
Why do people hate for no reason other than colour or creed?
what does it mean when people say 'they should go back where they came from' im surrounded by asian communities that were born and brought up around me and i gotta say i love the food.

please discuss, help me to get it.

for some ignorant bastards i guess they dislike for simply looking at someone different. But most of your racists, or racialists.. seperatists (names for whites wanting to be near other white people-- anyone else it's called pride or love)etc. they go from experience of said persons and just want to live, and or raise their family away from them. Not a bad thing imo. We naturally segregate our selves to a certain extent anyway. It's not unnatural to want to be near your own, and shouldn't be portrayed as being unnatural. But in this society it's usually by income. You should have the right to live where you can afford and move your family there, or friends there and live in peace while still paying your taxes, imo.

also.. most of the people that promote integration are those on the higher money scale that usually don't have to dwell around those that they are pushing the lower class to accept living next door to, or sending their kids to schools where they are the minority etc..

In my opinion, there's black people,and theres niggas. a black person is your friend, a nigga will jack your car fool. So Im kind of high right now. eat it