NationStates Jolt Archive

There's something that interests me in the debate about smoking - the main reason that people have a problem with it is because of second-hand smoke.

Well, I say, what about a source of nicotine that does not affect others? It could be a drink, an inhaler, etc. What laws would this be covered by? Could a profitable business be based around selling such products?

EDIT: I'm not talking about the stuff people use to quit, I'm talking about people using it as a replacement to cigarettes.

That patch... can't remember the name. Or the chewing gum.

Oh, and they're supposed to cure you of the nicotine addiction anyway.

Yes, there are already many other sources of nicotine other than smoking. These, however, are intended to help ween the patient off the need for nicotine. Nicotine is a drug and being addicted to anything could have side effects. Because smoking has so many bad attributes the addictive nicotine is not paid much attention but taking this alone would still endanger the health of those who take it.

The UK government actively encourages alternative nicotine sources as an AID to stop smoking.

There's something that interests me in the debate about smoking - the main reason that people have a problem with it is because of second-hand smoke.

Well, I say, what about a source of nicotine that does not affect others? It could be a drink, an inhaler, etc. What laws would this be covered by? Could a profitable business be based around selling such products?

http://www.nicorette.com/

The only problem is that it's not tobacco and it tastes and feels like sweaty arse. I bet heroin is more popular than methadon for the same reason.

Yeah, I already know about the stuff to help people quit, but for those people who don't want to, at least using an alternative form would stop them from harming non-smokers around them. And what they do to themselves is their responsibility.

If people want to actually KEEP their addiction than it would have to be an inhaler. One of the things smokers need is the sensation of something in their mouth. I suppose having an inhaler will have to suffice.

It's called dip.

yeah yeah there is tobacco snuff and chewing tobacco. *shudder*

people dont smoke because they want nicotine (they dont quit because they want nicotine) people smoke because it is incredibly cool to do so. drinks, gum, patches, chews, and inhalers are in no way cool. the only people who would be bothered with them are those who are having trouble qutting smoking.

it is such a pity that there is no true substitute for smoking that is even half as cool.

Yeah, I already know about the stuff to help people quit, but for those people who don't want to, at least using an alternative form would stop them from harming non-smokers around them. And what they do to themselves is their responsibility.

But you see, if someone doesn't want to give up smoking, they won't switch to gum or inhalers, will they?

I remember reading in a newspaper about this cigarette this cigarette that doesn't give off any smoke (of course, the japanese came up with that one). Apparantly it tastes like sweaty arse too. But if there were a way around that, I can imagine there being a market for it.

But you see, if someone doesn't want to give up smoking, they won't switch to gum or inhalers, will they?

I remember reading in a newspaper about this cigarette this cigarette that doesn't give off any smoke (of course, the japanese came up with that one). Apparantly it tastes like sweaty arse too. But if there were a way around that, I can imagine there being a market for it.

Um, you had tasted a sweaty arse? *shudders*

Well perhaps we need to drive them into the ground and make it as anti-social as possible to be a smoker. I really liked the new ad campaign with the fishing line. Very graphic and rather true. The smoking ban is a step in the right direction. If smokers were forced into a hut across out in the cold outside public places then I'm sure alot more people would stop. In fact in my local hospital it is illegal to light up within 5 yards of the grounds.

Um, you had tasted a sweaty arse? *shudders*

...let's just say it's not a good substitute for cigarettes.

yeah yeah there is tobacco snuff and chewing tobacco. *shudder*

people dont smoke because they want nicotine (they dont quit because they want nicotine) people smoke because it is incredibly cool to do so. drinks, gum, patches, chews, and inhalers are in no way cool. the only people who would be bothered with them are those who are having trouble qutting smoking.

it is such a pity that there is no true substitute for smoking that is even half as cool.

I used to think snuff was t3h pwn. Then I thought about how much fun sinus/nose cancer would be.

Edit: That's what no one will admit. Smoking is cool.

The problem with selling "just nicotine" is nicotine itself isn't necessarily quick to spill into the bloodstream. One of the major concerns with second hand smoke and the like is tobacco companies put dangerous ingredients like ammonia (which we all know is somewhat toxic as a gas and a liquid) just for the nicotine to be absorbed into bloodstream. There are tons of carcinogens that are produced from combustion, but that's not the point of the thread, is it?

There aren't really any alternatives other than just chewing a straight tobacco leaf itself, and that isn't tasty.

...let's just say it's not a good substitute for cigarettes.

... ah, okay... *wanders off still wondering how does a sweaty arse tastes like*

I used to think snuff was t3h pwn. Then I thought about how much fun sinus/nose cancer would be.

Edit: That's what no one will admit. Smoking is cool.

Then tell me how much fun lung cancer would be ;) .

... ah, okay... *wanders off still wondering how does a sweaty arse tastes like*

I think that was the cigarette that had some kind of tube in it... but yeah, smokers didn't like it because it tasted shitty.

I think that was the cigarette that had some kind of tube in it... but yeah, smokers didn't like it because it tasted shitty.

*returns*
'Shitty' taste... :eek: :eek: :eek:

Are you referring to pipe smoking? Or those filtered kinds?

I think the only permanent solution would be to make tobacco illegal or find a cheap and effective cure for cancer/heart-disease/emphysema (which is probably not about to happen).

I used to think snuff was t3h pwn. Then I thought about how much fun sinus/nose cancer would be.

Edit: That's what no one will admit. Smoking is cool.

why else would anyone smoke? nicotine isnt that great a drug. smoking tastes terrible, makes you stink, is expensive and the addiction is annoying. the only reason is that it is cool. if someone sold a product that is a safe substitute for smoking that is just as cool, he would be rich.

Then tell me how much fun lung cancer would be ;) .

I didn't have to worry about lung cancer with snuff, just gross buggers. I was young and stupid (hence the 1337).

As for my edit...
That's exactly why people start smoking.
http://static.flickr.com/112/263984492_66e3207ae6_s.jpg
Until anti-smoking campaigns start admitting that fact, they won't get anywhere.

*returns*
'Shitty' taste... :eek: :eek: :eek:

Are you referring to pipe smoking? Or those filtered kinds?

No, it was this kind of cigarette that was supposed to cut down on secondhand smoke, and it had some kind of tube in it... ill find a linky...

(couldn't find a good one, but here it is: http://www.cnn.com/HEALTH/9606/03/cigarette/index.html)

why else would anyone smoke? nicotine isnt that great a drug. smoking tastes terrible, makes you stink, is expensive and the addiction is annoying. the only reason is that it is cool. if someone sold a product that is a safe substitute for smoking that is just as cool, he would be rich.

That's the real trick. The cigar industry is doing a good job cashing in on this fact in the mean time.

I think the only permanent solution would be to make tobacco illegal or find a cheap and effective cure for cancer/heart-disease/emphysema (which is probably not about to happen).

Both are hard to do...

On my Anatomy class, the cadaver assigned to us was that of a heavy smoker. We have to clean out the respiratory tree - but OMG! The lungs were as dark as dark chocolate due to smoking. That was enough for me not to even try smoking.

So.. educating folks on the impacts of health may help... it won't eliminate it, but it can reduce it.

No, it was this kind of cigarette that was supposed to cut down on secondhand smoke, and it had some kind of tube in it... ill find a linky...

(couldn't find a good one, but here it is: http://www.cnn.com/HEALTH/9606/03/cigarette/index.html)

oooooh. Thanks. But now that you give less of the toxins to your neighbor, does it mean you get more of the toxins now?

oooooh. Thanks. But now that you give less of the toxins to your neighbor, does it mean you get more of the toxins now?

no. apparently, its doesnt burn the tobacco but heats it, so theres less carcinogens.

supposedly

There's something that interests me in the debate about smoking - the main reason that people have a problem with it is because of second-hand smoke.

The main reason is because of ignorance. Like, the nearly hypochondriac fear of getting lung cancer whenever a smoker lights up nearby - matched with the absolute lack of fear no matter how many automobiles may be driving around nearby pumping thousands of gallons of chemicals into their lungs.

Because it's OK to get cancer, as long as its cuz of something "necessary" like Joe's fucking Mustang.

Well, I say, what about a source of nicotine that does not affect others? It could be a drink, an inhaler, etc. What laws would this be covered by? Could a profitable business be based around selling such products?

EDIT: I'm not talking about the stuff people use to quit, I'm talking about people using it as a replacement to cigarettes.

Nonsense. I don't smoke cigarettes for nicotine. I like smoking.

why else would anyone smoke? nicotine isnt that great a drug. smoking tastes terrible, makes you stink, is expensive and the addiction is annoying. the only reason is that it is cool. if someone sold a product that is a safe substitute for smoking that is just as cool, he would be rich.

Just because you don't understand something doesn't lend any credibility to your PC conjectures.

You say it tastes terrible; that's your opinion and certainly not mine. Certainly there are lots of things that about 90% of the population enjoys, like coffee, that I can't stand the taste of.

You say it makes you stink; again that's your opinion and not mine. Again, there are plenty of things that I too find stinky, like most of the crap people put in their armpits.

You say it's expensive, based on what? Relative to what?

I smoke because - wait for it - I *enjoy* it. It has nothing to do with "cool." If you try hard enough, you can apply that childish thinking to any activity. Aha, you only wear that article of clothing because you think it's cool! And your car, same reason! "You just think you're so cool, don't you!" But I find this process lame.

Just because you don't understand something doesn't lend any credibility to your PC conjectures.

You say it tastes terrible; that's your opinion and certainly not mine. Certainly there are lots of things that about 90% of the population enjoys, like coffee, that I can't stand the taste of.

You say it makes you stink; again that's your opinion and not mine. Again, there are plenty of things that I too find stinky, like most of the crap people put in their armpits.

You say it's expensive, based on what? Relative to what?

I smoke because - wait for it - I *enjoy* it. It has nothing to do with "cool." If you try hard enough, you can apply that childish thinking to any activity. Aha, you only wear that article of clothing because you think it's cool! And your car, same reason! "You just think you're so cool, don't you!" But I find this process lame.

i dont know why you would deny a basic fact about smoking.

it stinks, it turns your teeth yellow, it kills you but it is COOL. you obviously think that being cool is a dis. its NOT. cool is cool. its attractive, its thoughtful, its a million little rituals that define your attitude toward the world.

if it didnt have the downsides who wouldnt smoke?

i dont know why you would deny a basic fact about smoking.


"cool" is not a fact, "stinky" is not a fact, nor is "bad tasting." All of those are your perceptions and preferences. Don't try to turn them into anything more than that.


it stinks, it turns your teeth yellow, it kills you but it is COOL.

My teeth aren't yellow. And I'm not dead nor dying. I must not smoke, yes?

And I'm certainly not COOL.

you obviously think that being cool is a dis. its NOT. cool is cool. its attractive, its thoughtful, its a million little rituals that define your attitude toward the world.

No, "You think you're COOL! You just do it because its COOL!" is the insult here. It's marginalizing my preference into some sort of conformist trendy bullshit. Sorry, that's not how MY preferences work. I don't care how much you believe your line of reasoning where the only reason people smoke is because of "cool," it just doesn't have a basis in reality. You can't tell me why I do the things I do.

if it didnt have the downsides who wouldnt smoke?

I would smoke regardless of the supposed downsides.

And if you haven't been paying attention to popular culture for the past two decades or so, smoking isn't "cool" either. In fact, most PC-antismokers believe it's murder.

It is seen by some as a cool thing top do which is why many teenagers start it. Personally I can't see what's cool about someone that's such a wimp they can't make it through a day without little white sticks. Really is very pathetic when you look at it this way.

The smoking ban coming in for England for public areas looks a good idea and is a step in the right direction as atleast non-smokers as a whole can live without the agonising side effects. Would be difficult to encourage people to switch unless they were trying to give up as the replacements just don't look as 'cool'.

Hopefully however not being able to light up in so many places will mean it will in the long run be easier for people to give up. One reason many people don't try is that it looks too difficult but if the places they can smoke are very limited it means it may be easier in the end to give it up.

Personally I can't see what's cool about someone that's such a wimp they can't make it through a day without little white sticks. Really is very pathetic when you look at it this way.

You're not talking about smoking, you're talking about people being unable to make it without smoking. Lumping them all together is like me insisting that if you drink a light beer, you're an alcoholic.


Hopefully however not being able to light up in so many places will mean it will in the long run be easier for people to give up. One reason many people don't try is that it looks too difficult but if the places they can smoke are very limited it means it may be easier in the end to give it up.

The main reasons people don't quit smoking.

1) They don't really want to and are only trying because social pressures, in the form of loved ones, friends, co-workers and employers, are pressuring them to.

2) People have this rather stupid belief that inanimate objects can control them. If I believe, for example, that I'm "an addict" and that I am "addicted to" cigarettes, why should I try to stop? Clearly I'm a victim, yes? I have been relieved of my self-responsibility. If people understood that they themselves are the sole arbiters of their own decisions and choices, people could quit ANYTHING. But as long as people don't understand that you'll find people "addicted" to any behavior they want to dismiss their responsibility for.

The main reasons people don't quit smoking.

1) They don't really want to and are only trying because social pressures, in the form of loved ones, friends, co-workers and employers, are pressuring them to.

2) People have this rather stupid belief that inanimate objects can control them. If I believe, for example, that I'm "an addict" and that I am "addicted to" cigarettes, why should I try to stop? Clearly I'm a victim, yes? I have been relieved of my self-responsibility. If people understood that they themselves are the sole arbiters of their own decisions and choices, people could quit ANYTHING. But as long as people don't understand that you'll find people "addicted" to any behavior they want to dismiss their responsibility for.

2 is wrong, because some things (like cigarettes) ARE addictive.
I've bet you've missed a cigarette sometime before, right?
I'll also bet you NOTICED right then that you weren't smoking when you should've.


Same thing happens with coffee, BTW. It's a pretty common thing.

2 is wrong, because some things (like cigarettes) ARE addictive.

Yeah. And shopping, and work, and chocolate, and sex, and talking on the phone, and using the Internet, and driving a car, or jogging, or... gee, EVERYTHING is addictive. Notice how meaningless the term seems when you broaden it?

And yet, addictive or not, #2 is NOT wrong. You are 1000% wrong about that. You have total control over your own actions. Period. If you think otherwise, you've been mislead into taking the easy way out... just like many people dying from drug-related conditions. They felt, as you do, that they have no power to change.

If you don't feel you have the power to chanage your own behavior, you will not change your behavior.

I've bet you've missed a cigarette sometime before, right?
I'll also bet you NOTICED right then that you weren't smoking when you should've.

You lost both bets. I can and have "missed a cigarette" for weeks, months at a time. At no point do I lose self control. When I do smoke a cigarette, it is me, choosing at that point in time, to smoke it. I choose to buy the pack, open it, light it up, inhale, exhale. No one - no thing - MADE me do it, any more than the voices in someone's head MADE him kill two co-workers with a Spork.

Same thing happens with coffee, BTW. It's a pretty common thing.

About 1 in 5 in the US smoke cigarettes, whereas about 80-90% of the North American population habitually uses caffeine. If you really believe that "addictive things" exert actual control over people's own behaviors, doesn't it alarm you to think that perhaps only 10% of the population is in control of their behavior?

This is it:
Smokers will use an alteration of the current gas mask to breate in thier own fumes instead of spreading them around. Just simply place the the cigarrette into the end nearest the mouth, light the cigarette, close the hatch, and breath normally, well, for a while anyways. This item also works great for instant hot-boxes. and to sell this item, here are some adorable smilies...
:p :fluffle: :mad: :rolleyes: :eek: :cool: :)