NationStates Jolt Archive

Yesterday, at the school I'm working at, they had their Religious Education session. This involved the Chaplain of the school (Christian person) giving a speech all about God, and the Christian perspective, playing a Switchfoot song, and generally implying that the Christian truth was the only correct one. This went on for half an hour.

This was done on a full-school assembly where students were unable to leave, or express their disagreement with what was happening. They were not given any warning that this would be happening. Parents were not notified.

This happened in a public school in Queensland.

The problem: Queensland education policy dictates that students must be able to "opt out" of religious education if it conflicts with their home beliefs. These students were not given any opportunity to remove themselves from the hall. There were no speakers from any other religion or secular organisation to provide a counterbalance.

What do you guys think?

:eek: Oh my goodness you poor baby!
You had to suffer 30 minutes of bible beating! Oh!:eek:

Really I don't see what your are upset about. You obviously have opinions formed to the contrary to why don't you just tune the speaker out? They didn't force you to beleive in God did they?

i think that the minister was abusing his position as school chaplain and i have great pity for the students who had to sit through his sermon.

:eek: Oh my goodness you poor baby!
You had to suffer 30 minutes of bible beating! Oh!:eek:

Really I don't see what your are upset about. You obviously have opinions formed to the contrary to why don't you just tune the speaker out? They didn't force you to beleive in God did they?

I'm sure you would be just fine if you were subjected to brutal atheism for 30 minutes.

That speech would've pissed me off.

Boo, hoo I had to endure seven years of bible learning in a Catholic school with nuns with not rulers, but yard sticks so I think that you endured the less of it.

Yet, I am not sure what your policy is at your province to this as in the U.S. we do not have public religious meetings in school, except for clubs.

Oh my goodness you poor baby!
You had to suffer 30 minutes of bible beating! Oh!

Really I don't see what your are upset about. You obviously have opinions formed to the contrary to why don't you just tune the speaker out? They didn't force you to beleive in God did they?
My point was that it was in contradiction with the law of Queensland and that it did not give students or families the opportunity to exclude their students. It was a public school, with students from a diversity of backgrounds, many of whom do not adhere to Christianity. They should not be forced to participate, especially when the law supports their right to not participate.

Personally, I don't care one way or another. I have my own beliefs about the existence or not and nature of God, and nothing anyone says is really going to change that.

I know how you feel seeing as I live in a small uberconservative uberchristian area where no one cares about the perspectives of other beliefs especially atheism or agnosticism. Its sure is a good thing we have the internet to bring all us non christians together though.

I'm sure you would be just fine if you were subjected to brutal atheism for 30 minutes.

That speech would've pissed me off.That could not happen to my as the Spanish Inquistion put a chip in my head when I went to Catholic school to prevent Atheism from being preached to be and if it is a group of men in red robes come and mess up the place.

Yesterday, at the school I'm working at, they had their Religious Education session. This involved the Chaplain of the school (Christian person) giving a speech all about God, and the Christian perspective, playing a Switchfoot song, and generally implying that the Christian truth was the only correct one. This went on for half an hour.

This was done on a full-school assembly where students were unable to leave, or express their disagreement with what was happening. They were not given any warning that this would be happening. Parents were not notified.

This happened in a public school in Queensland.

The problem: Queensland education policy dictates that students must be able to "opt out" of religious education if it conflicts with their home beliefs. These students were not given any opportunity to remove themselves from the hall. There were no speakers from any other religion or secular organisation to provide a counterbalance.

What do you guys think?

I went to public school in Queensland too and our religious classes were all divied up into sects or you could just study. Maybe you should write a letter to the education minister?

Yesterday, at the school I'm working at, they had their Religious Education session. This involved the Chaplain of the school (Christian person) giving a speech all about God, and the Christian perspective, playing a Switchfoot song, and generally implying that the Christian truth was the only correct one. This went on for half an hour.

That first part alone is enough to make him an jackass in my eyes. The rest only makes him more of a jackass.

I would say at least grounds for a lawsuit. Certainly a reprimand is in order for whoever okayed this. Possibly a criminal infraction has occurred. Possibly a compromise could be reached if an atheist, moslem, hindu, buddhist, shaman, and a satanist were brought in to express their views.

I'm sure you would be just fine if you were subjected to brutal atheism for 30 minutes.

That speech would've pissed me off.
So it was brutal christianity eh?
But still I suppose a citizen has the right to not have religion "imposed" upon them. Then we get into messy fights over what is religion and what isnt. I retract the majority of my previous statement although I still dont pity you.

That's discusting, especially in a supposedly secular society as Australia. I believe this may have something to do with Howard's legislation he passed a while ago paying for College Chaplains and the like, which was highly criticised for imposing one religion over other. I remember at the start of my University life I guess, in the first week people from the Uni chaplain were handing out small NT versions for free, I remember no one took one, I did only to throw it out, but that's another story. One of the very few explicit rights the Constitution of Australia gives is in fact the freedom of religion. I am quite sure it's Howard giving it to the extremist christian right in his own party and outside lobby groups.

You should hve stood up and pointed out the barbaric OT laws such as a women being forced to marry her rapist, or being stoned to death for working on sundays.

Boo, hoo I had to endure seven years of bible learning in a Catholic school with nuns with not rulers, but yard sticks so I think that you endured the less of it.

Yet, I am not sure what your policy is at your province to this as in the U.S. we do not have public religious meetings in school, except for clubs.

I don't want to turn this into a pissing contest about who had it worse. I was concerned that students whose beliefs were obviously in conflict with those of the minister were subjected to what was tantamount to preaching for 30 minutes when doing so is in conflict with Education Queensland policy.

I would say at least grounds for a lawsuit.
Oh of course. If something we dont like happens LETS SUE THEIR PANTS OFF. Now lets think for a moment. If you sue a school district for money (Which I assume you would) who loses? The students who must suffer budget cuts as the school struggles to pay an excess amount of money for something that deserves an apology at most.

So it was brutal christianity eh?

:confused: is there any other kind?

If that had happened in the US, you and your parents would have a mother of a lawsuit. :)

That first part alone is enough to make him an jackass in my eyes. The rest only makes him more of a jackass.
So being a Chrisitian makes you a jackass? WOW you are almost as closed minded as I am!

I went to public school in Queensland too and our religious classes were all divied up into sects or you could just study. Maybe you should write a letter to the education minister?

Yeah, at my high school, we just cancelled RE. Talked about the religions in Human Relationships Education. At my primary school the kids were all separated out into different religions and the school provided a minister or representative to talk to them. Except the atheist kids, they got sent to the library. I was always so jealous of them :mad:

If that had happened in the US, you and your parents would have a mother of a lawsuit. :)

Do we even have "Religious Education" in public schools? Personally, I never was even offered a class on religion.

:confused: is there any other kind?
Wow. You are totally hilarious!

If that had happened in the US, you and your parents would have a mother of a lawsuit. :)

Well, I don't know about me, seeing as I'm a teacher at the school...but I think that the parents should have the right at least to protest.

Do we even have "Religious Education" in public schools? Personally, I never was even offered a class on religion.

Scratch that, I vaguely remember an elective titled "Comparative Religions".

Oh of course. If something we dont like happens LETS SUE THEIR PANTS OFF. Now lets think for a moment. If you sue a school district for money (Which I assume you would) who loses? The students who must suffer budget cuts as the school struggles to pay an excess amount of money for something that deserves an apology at most.

It's the only thing that people understand. If you don't hit them severly in the pocketbook or deny them freedom for a while they'll just continue this behaviour. An apology? lol

how does one get the job of school chaplain in queensland? is there a denominational requirement? is s/he required to take those of other faiths into consideration at all?

So being a Chrisitian makes you a jackass? WOW you are almost as closed minded as I am!

Well, seeing as we have eloquent proof right here...

Well in US public schools he would be most likely thrown out, at least discourages. The Us has a seperation of church and state. If Australia doesn't then it was legal. SOme people get exsesive. An athiest got " under God " taken out of the pladge of alligence when said in California public schools. That is going a little too far. I mean I soppuse a little religous edecation (It is history after all) so long as all faaiths get a say can't hurt. All religions endorse peace and love so what's wrong with that.:sniper:

IN private schools you can do what you want in the US (as long as you take stae tests and stuff) your alowed to go to mass and stuff but in public school( in the US) an athiest could sue so damn hard that they would bankrupt the state.

It's the only thing that people understand. If you don't hit them severly in the pocketbook or deny them freedom for a while they'll just continue this behaviour. An apology? lol
NO!
WRONG!
Maybe deny freedom or whatnot but you can't drain education for the students! It isnt their fault the speech was speeched:D to why do they have to suffer for it? Besides does a person really need 5,000,000 (Insert currency here) for hearing a speech of the opposite religion?
NO

If any Australia here had been through Catholic high school and college education knows religion is barely ever mentioned, 'St. Virgils' or whatever is about the only religious connotation you'll ever get in the school, they are very secular, and RE classes will show that. The real problem is from minority (but steadily growing) christian private schools run by those of the fundamentalist persuasion of Christianity. Given though, these schools themselves have trouble because they can never get teachers (even religion ones) who will espouse their views.

Do we even have "Religious Education" in public schools? Personally, I never was even offered a class on religion.

At my (public) school, different religions are discussed in world history, geography, and world religions courses (and we read literature from different religions in 10th grade English- world literature). We never had any sort of religious education that aimed to convert us to any religion or anything, though (I'm Catholic, by the way)

Well in US public schools he would be most likely thrown out, at least discourages. The Us has a seperation of church and state. If Australia doesn't then it was legal. SOme people get exsesive. An athiest got " under God " taken out of the pladge of alligence when said in California public schools. That is going a little too far. I mean I soppuse a little religous edecation (It is history after all) so long as all faaiths get a say can't hurt. All religions endorse peace and love so what's wrong with that.:sniper:
No not all religions endorse peace and love Cornhusker.

I don't want to turn this into a pissing contest about who had it worse. I was concerned that students whose beliefs were obviously in conflict with those of the minister were subjected to what was tantamount to preaching for 30 minutes when doing so is in conflict with Education Queensland policy.


I think the basic problem that you're going to have here in getting a response that's both considered and relevant is that the majority of posters are US-based, and are inevitably going to see your situation through the prism of the American interaction between religion, politics, and education.

This is by no means a criticism of that American perspective, merely an attempt to note that's what relevant to debate in the US isn't necessarily relevant to Australia generally or Queensland specifically. There are similarities at times, but the environment is totally different (and this is being written by a UK citizen who currently resides in Melbourne, and who also spent 11 years living in the US - including 3 years in Jerry Falwell's hometown of Lynchburg, VA - so I'm not entirely unaware of those similarities and differences)

I think Andaras Prime had a point worth exploring as to the potential impact of Howard's chaplain legislation on this sort of assembly. But the basic point is that if this was a mandatory assembly in a public school, with no opportunity to opt out, and it can be demonstrated that it was in violation of state law, then yes, you do have valid grounds for complaint.

And since I'm writing this while eating my yummy vegan tofu stir fry in observance of Russian Orthodox Lent, I can hardly be accused of being anti-Christian.

how does one get the job of school chaplain in queensland? is there a denominational requirement? is s/he required to take those of other faiths into consideration at all?

IIRC, no other religious denomination can serve the function of chaplain. It's funded by a Christian organisation that is given the right to place chaplains in state schools, on the grounds that students have the right to access spiritual guidance. It is mandated however, that if other recognised religions can provide a suitable representative, they are allowed to run a religious education class during the time allotted by the school for their own religion. However, the same right is not extended to atheists or secular humanists (or pastafarians:( ).

Do we even have "Religious Education" in public schools? Personally, I never was even offered a class on religion.

Not anymore, we don't. My parents had it, but I never did. Hence, the lawsuit that would exist if it did happen in the US. However, in some small uber-fundamentalist communities there is some limited political pressure being brought to bear locally to put religious education back into schools that receive public funding. Every few years the outbreak of such a debate pops up in the news, so while there is no recent precedent in the US for the Queensland story, the Queensland story might be a warning to the US.

Well, I don't know about me, seeing as I'm a teacher at the school...but I think that the parents should have the right at least to protest.

Haha, my bad. I had the impression you were a student.

:sniper: The point is history (be it religion, if u thought otherwise, DUH!{jackass})is fine. You can sue them to the last cent + there undies and who cares the priests and nuns and stuff that teach at catholic school. IN New York the Bible is studied as literature not religion and world histoiry consisits of part religious history ( christ was an important dude) but Religous ed is different. IT's literally Illegal

I prescribe fire. Lots of it.

NO!
WRONG!
Maybe deny freedom or whatnot but you can't drain education for the students! It isnt their fault the speech was speeched:D to why do they have to suffer for it? Besides does a person really need 5,000,000 (Insert currency here) for hearing a speech of the opposite religion?
NO

First, you are aware that one does not have to sue for five million. A few thousand would probably do it.

Second, the pocketbook works. Trust the administrators at that school very much care about what happens to their budget.

Third, so schools just get a pass because it hurts the students? Who else? Hospitals? Wouldn't want to hurt the patients. Forget that pesky malpractice killing people. Why worry about such things. Fire departements? That just makes it harder for them to fight fires. Forget if they do something negligent or wrong. Etc.

A lawsuit might elicit an apology and the student could and should certainly accept it. The practice violated the law and the rights of the students and if it costs a little bit of money to protect those rights, so be it. The rights will be still be around in 10 years. The effect of paying the money will not.

I go 2 private school and have a religion but im proud of my countrys seperation of church and state:sniper:

:sniper: The point is history (be it religion, if u thought otherwise, DUH!{jackass})is fine
Eh?
Oh and drop the smilie. Its kindof n00bish

Scratch that, I vaguely remember an elective titled "Comparative Religions".

Comparative Religions is not the same as Religious Education. Back when Religious Education existed in US schools, according to my mother who was a student in those days, it included in-school prayer and hymns and lectures about Bible stories and morality. The viewpoint was exclusively Protestant (most bland variety possible). When I was a kid in school, there was no such thing at all, although Catholic and Jewish kids still got one afternoon a week off to go to religious education at their respective houses of worship. Not in school though.

First, you are aware that one does not have to sue for five million. A few thousand would probably do it.

Second, the pocketbook works. Trust the administrators at that school very much care about what happens to their budget.

Third, so schools just get a pass because it hurts the students? Who else? Hospitals? Wouldn't want to hurt the patients. Forget that pesky malpractice killing people. Why worry about such things. Fire departements? That just makes it harder for them to fight fires. Forget if they do something negligent or wrong. Etc.

A lawsuit might elicit an apology and the student could and should certainly accept it. The practice violated the law and the rights of the students and if it costs a little bit of money to protect those rights, so be it. The rights will be still be around in 10 years. The effect of paying the money will not.
A lawsuit will always come and bite the taxpayer in the butt because it will drain money from tax funded areas, which will in turn need more money yada yada. Lawsuits against tax funded systems are bad period IMHO except in extreme cases, this NOT being one.

A lawsuit will always come and bite the taxpayer in the butt because it will drain money from tax funded areas, which will in turn need more money yada yada. Lawsuits against tax funded systems are bad period IMHO except in extreme cases, this NOT being one.


Would you say that if the person lecturing was an atheist? A Muslim? A Satanist?

If any Australia here had been through Catholic high school and college education knows religion is barely ever mentioned, 'St. Virgils' or whatever is about the only religious connotation you'll ever get in the school, they are very secular, and RE classes will show that. The real problem is from minority (but steadily growing) christian private schools run by those of the fundamentalist persuasion of Christianity. Given though, these schools themselves have trouble because they can never get teachers (even religion ones) who will espouse their views.

Yeah. I went to a public primary school but a private Christian one for high school and aside from prayers at assemblies and religion classes there wasn't much religion at all. Most kids went there because it was a better school than the public alternatives rather than any religious motivations.

A lawsuit will always come and bite the taxpayer in the butt because it will drain money from tax funded areas, which will in turn need more money yada yada. Lawsuits against tax funded systems are bad period IMHO except in extreme cases, this NOT being one.

So your argument is that if they break the law that she not use the law meant to protect her to, you know, protect her, because it's tax funded? Hmmmm... then why have the law in the first place? Why would they not just continue to violate a law that no one can enforce because they're a tax-funded organization? If the law is not applied to you, then you may as well be above the law.

So being a Chrisitian makes you a jackass? WOW you are almost as closed minded as I am!

It's not about him being Christian. It's about trying to force-feed a school's worth of students a bunch of crap about Christianity being the only way.

Comparative Religions is not the same as Religious Education. Back when Religious Education existed in US schools, according to my mother who was a student in those days, it included in-school prayer and hymns and lectures about Bible stories and morality. The viewpoint was exclusively Protestant (most bland variety possible). When I was a kid in school, there was no such thing at all, although Catholic and Jewish kids still got one afternoon a week off to go to religious education at their respective houses of worship. Not in school though.

Wait...if this isn't religious education, what exactly is religious education?

Would you say that if the person lecturing was an atheist? A Muslim? A Satanist?
Eh Yes!

It's not about him being Christian. It's about trying to force-feed a school's worth of students a bunch of crap about Christianity being the only way.
Because if you are a Christian it is the only way! And if you are a Christian and beleive to the contrare you are no true beleiver.
So your argument is that if they break the law that she not use the law meant to protect her to, you know, protect her, because it's tax funded? Hmmmm... then why have the law in the first place? Why would they not just continue to violate a law that no one can enforce because they're a tax-funded organization? If the law is not applied to you, then you may as well be above the law.
I missed the crime that was commited.

Wait...if this isn't religious education, what exactly is religious education?

Religious education I believe, is teaching about the tenets of a specific religion, ie. educating the students in that religion.

Eh Yes!

At least you're consistent...and please, for goodness' sake, learn to use the multiquote.


Because if you are a Christian it is the only way! And if you are a Christian and beleive to the contrare you are no true beleiver.
But that doesn't give them a free pass to try and convert the student population of a public school.

I missed the crime that was commited.


I have now mentioned several times that it is against Education Queensland policy to force students to participate in religious education. It is mandated that their parents must be notified and they must be given the option of "opting out", which they were clearly not given in this case.

For the Americans speaking of lawsuits.. you have obviously never gone through an education in the 'Bible-Belt', where things of this nature and more are common-place..

Eh Yes!

It's not about him being Christian. It's about trying to force-feed a school's worth of students a bunch of crap about Christianity being the only way.
Because if you are a Christian it is the only way! And if you are a Christian and beleive to the contrare you are no true beleiver.

Says who? You? I didn't know you were in a position to say so. No, it's about the preaching if you're not following along. I have enough faith in Christianity being a light that I needn't shove it down your throat. I figure if I'm an example people will follow that example. It worked for Jesus. But, hey, why follow that example. Instead force people to remain in their seats while they listen to you drone about something they don't actually want to hear. Yep, that's the Christian way. Well, so long as you forget how Christ did it.

I follow the example of Christ. I guess I'm not much of a believer, eh?


So your argument is that if they break the law that she not use the law meant to protect her to, you know, protect her, because it's tax funded? Hmmmm... then why have the law in the first place? Why would they not just continue to violate a law that no one can enforce because they're a tax-funded organization? If the law is not applied to you, then you may as well be above the law.
I missed the crime that was commited.

You missed the mention that the law requires that children be offered the chance to opt out? It's mentioned several times as required in Queensland.

Originally Posted by The South Islands
Wait...if this isn't religious education, what exactly is religious education?
Religious education I believe, is teaching about the tenets of a specific religion, ie. educating the students in that religion.
Yes, precisely. Comparative Religions is the historical or sociological study of world religions, not training or indoctrination in the tenets of a religion that is presumed to be "ours" and thus part of a person's required education, which is what old-style Religious Education was in the US.

By the way, Religious Education is what it was called in New York City, which is where the last few generations of my family have been from. I don't know what it was called in other parts of the US. And the period that my parents had it was the late 1940s-1950s. I was in public school in the 1960s-70s and did not have it.

Eh Yes!

It's not about him being Christian. It's about trying to force-feed a school's worth of students a bunch of crap about Christianity being the only way.
Because if you are a Christian it is the only way! And if you are a Christian and beleive to the contrare you are no true beleiver.
So your argument is that if they break the law that she not use the law meant to protect her to, you know, protect her, because it's tax funded? Hmmmm... then why have the law in the first place? Why would they not just continue to violate a law that no one can enforce because they're a tax-funded organization? If the law is not applied to you, then you may as well be above the law.
I missed the crime that was commited.

close your eyes for a moment and think about being in a highschool assembly. you cant leave, its against the rules. suddenly an imam from the local mosque starts giving a sermon on how islam is the only way, how you must follow the teachings of mohammed in order to live a good life. on and on for half an hour.

can you imagine that some students or their parents might be a little bit angry?

close your eyes for a moment and think about being in a highschool assembly. you cant leave, its against the rules. suddenly an imam from the local mosque starts giving a sermon on how islam is the only way, how you must follow the teachings of mohammed in order to live a good life. on and on for half an hour.

can you imagine that some students or their parents might be a little bit angry?

Islam isn't too bad for this, all things considered.
Try Scientology for some real results here.

Islam isn't too bad for this, all things considered.
Try Scientology for some real results here.

lol

close your eyes around a scientologist and he'll hook you up to an engram machine and start telling you that all your troubles stem from the dead aliens in your head.



yeah, i see what you mean.

So being a Chrisitian makes you a jackass? WOW you are almost as closed minded as I am!

No, but getting up in front of a group of non-Christians, who are minors, without their parents consent, and telling them that Christianity is the only correct religion and that everyone else is going to hell does.

lol

close your eyes around a scientologist and he'll hook you up to an engram machine and start telling you that all your troubles stem from the dead aliens in your head.



yeah, i see what you mean.

We're a little behind you guys. Christian Fundamentalism has only just hit us. I'm waiting for Scientology. So I can have a good laugh, instead of being very alarmed.

yes well i think you should bring it up and if they ignore you then find a teacher at the school to help you out....you think thats bad though....ive had teachers who everyother sentence say "thats why god did" or "thats why god gave you a..." or "god did not want us to do ...." i get that last one alot, i would have left or took the time to catch some Zs.....

Yesterday, at the school I'm working at, they had their Religious Education session. This involved the Chaplain of the school (Christian person) giving a speech all about God, and the Christian perspective, playing a Switchfoot song, and generally implying that the Christian truth was the only correct one. This went on for half an hour.

This was done on a full-school assembly where students were unable to leave, or express their disagreement with what was happening. They were not given any warning that this would be happening. Parents were not notified.

This happened in a public school in Queensland.

The problem: Queensland education policy dictates that students must be able to "opt out" of religious education if it conflicts with their home beliefs. These students were not given any opportunity to remove themselves from the hall. There were no speakers from any other religion or secular organisation to provide a counterbalance.

What do you guys think?
I didn't know that kind of thing happened in Australia - I would never have guessed schools even had a chaplain. But, from what I've been told by someone whose lived there, that's not a surprise.

Well in US public schools he would be most likely thrown out, at least discourages. The Us has a seperation of church and state. If Australia doesn't then it was legal. SOme people get exsesive. An athiest got " under God " taken out of the pladge of alligence when said in California public schools. That is going a little too far. I mean I soppuse a little religous edecation (It is history after all) so long as all faaiths get a say can't hurt. All religions endorse peace and love so what's wrong with that.:sniper:

IN private schools you can do what you want in the US (as long as you take stae tests and stuff) your alowed to go to mass and stuff but in public school( in the US) an athiest could sue so damn hard that they would bankrupt the state.


Sweet Zombie Jesus! You need English education not religious education.

Also fun historical footnote, Under God was put in the pledge in the 60s to prove we weren't "godless communists". It breaks the entire rhythm of the pledge. Distracting as hell.

Yesterday, at the school I'm working at, they had their Religious Education session. This involved the Chaplain of the school (Christian person) giving a speech all about God, and the Christian perspective, playing a Switchfoot song, and generally implying that the Christian truth was the only correct one. This went on for half an hour.

This was done on a full-school assembly where students were unable to leave, or express their disagreement with what was happening. They were not given any warning that this would be happening. Parents were not notified.

This happened in a public school in Queensland.

The problem: Queensland education policy dictates that students must be able to "opt out" of religious education if it conflicts with their home beliefs. These students were not given any opportunity to remove themselves from the hall. There were no speakers from any other religion or secular organisation to provide a counterbalance.

What do you guys think?pee in the chaplain's post box

Yesterday, at the school I'm working at, they had their Religious Education session. This involved the Chaplain of the school (Christian person) giving a speech all about God, and the Christian perspective, playing a Switchfoot song, and generally implying that the Christian truth was the only correct one. This went on for half an hour.

This was done on a full-school assembly where students were unable to leave, or express their disagreement with what was happening. They were not given any warning that this would be happening. Parents were not notified.

This happened in a public school in Queensland.

The problem: Queensland education policy dictates that students must be able to "opt out" of religious education if it conflicts with their home beliefs. These students were not given any opportunity to remove themselves from the hall. There were no speakers from any other religion or secular organisation to provide a counterbalance.

What do you guys think?

Wait... you were there during the assembly, and now you're here with the same beliefs you had before, complaining about the lack of a offset to the speakers...

yet you're still saying that they crammed christianity down your throat?

:rolleyes:

Wait... you were there during the assembly, and now you're here with the same beliefs you had before, complaining about the lack of a offset to the speakers...

yet you're still saying that they crammed christianity down your throat?

:rolleyes:

Remember kids, if even one person doesn't buy it the propaganda machine has failed!

Who said that cramming religion down someone's throat means that they have to convert?

I still remember my first RS (religious studies) lesson at secondary school:

Teacher: I take it everyone here's a Christian, right?

Me: *Raises hand*

Teacher: *looks surprised* You mean... you're an Atheist?

Me: Erm... yes.

Teacher: But don't you look at all the beauty in the world and think that there must have been a creator?

Me: No.

Teacher: Oh...

That's not the kind of response an eleven year old should get from their teacher, and this encounter is one of the reasons why I'm such an ardent secularist.

I still remember my first RS (religious studies) lesson at secondary school:

Teacher: I take it everyone here's a Christian, right?

Me: *Raises hand*

Teacher: *looks surprised* You mean... you're an Atheist?

Me: Erm... yes.

Teacher: But don't you look at all the beauty in the world and think that there must have been a creator?

Me: No.

Teacher: Oh...

That's not the kind of response an eleven year old should get from their teacher, and this encounter is one of the reasons why I'm such an ardent secularist.

I like the dichotomy in the first line. Everyone who's not christian's an athiest.

I like the dichotomy in the first line. Everyone who's not christian's an athiest.

Sounds about right to me ;)

Sounds about right to me ;)
Yep. :)

Teacher: But don't you look at all the beauty in the world and think that there must have been a creator?I'm just not getting that one... :confused: :rolleyes: :eek: :headbang: :D

...when I was eleven I practically spend all religion lessons outside, because everytime I asked something the teacher couldn't answer (like: why did god choose moses although he had murdered an egyptian?) I was thrown out of class :D

I know I would've danced my way out of that assembly singing Hava Nagila (http://youtube.com/watch?v=p212848xPzM)! :D

What do you guys think?

Welcome to the real world.

Who said that cramming religion down someone's throat means that they have to convert?

Apparently Christmahanakwanzikah did.

We're a little behind you guys. Christian Fundamentalism has only just hit us. I'm waiting for Scientology. So I can have a good laugh, instead of being very alarmed.

if only tom cruise had managed to convert nicole kidman when he had the chance...

Apparently Christmahanakwanzikah did.

:D

just pointing it out... not the whole conversion thing, the non-conversion part of it

Yesterday, at the school I'm working at, they had their Religious Education session. This involved the Chaplain of the school (Christian person) giving a speech all about God, and the Christian perspective, playing a Switchfoot song, and generally implying that the Christian truth was the only correct one. This went on for half an hour.

This was done on a full-school assembly where students were unable to leave, or express their disagreement with what was happening. They were not given any warning that this would be happening. Parents were not notified.

This happened in a public school in Queensland.

The problem: Queensland education policy dictates that students must be able to "opt out" of religious education if it conflicts with their home beliefs. These students were not given any opportunity to remove themselves from the hall. There were no speakers from any other religion or secular organisation to provide a counterbalance.

What do you guys think?

They made you listen to Switchfoot? Damn, that's fucked up.

They made you listen to Switchfoot? Damn, that's fucked up.

Switchfoot's not that bad.

Anyway, if it's illegal, it's illegal. I don't reccommend suing, but I do endorse making a complaint.

On the other hand, Australians are total n00bs. If you want to convert kids in schools, you don't make them them attend assemblies, you discreetly incorporate it into the lessons like the Americans do! :p