NationStates Jolt Archive

It's a simple question, really. What happens to us? And I don't mean the body. Yeah, you smartasses would say something about your body decomposing into a stiff bloated mass of cells. I mean something deeper. What happens to our consciousness, our soul, if you will. What happens to the thing that makes us...us?

I know many members of NSG are Atheist. Does this mean you all believe that our soul (or whatever your term may be) will simply cease to exist? Will all our knowledge, hopes, dreams, and fears disappear in a proverbial poof of dust? Will we, in the words of Monty Python, "Cease to be"? Will it be as though we had never existed in the first place? Or is there another plain of existence? Will our consciousness, being free from our flesh, zoom off into another world that we cannot even comprehend?

Equally, I know many members of NSG are religious in one way or another. I know many of us (myself included) don't really buy the standard story of the afterlife fed to us by mainstream religions. Is there a heaven, is there a hell? Will our soul be judged in some way, the good ascend into heaven to be with God, the wicked descend into hell to be eternally separated from God? Will we be reincarnated based on our deeds in this life? Is life simply a never ending cycle, with a soul beginning in human form and hopping from one animal to another?

This thread didn't just come out of the blue. About 5 hours ago, I received a call from my mother, informing me that my Grandfather had died. He had open hears surgery about 2 months ago, and was recovering slowly but surely. From what I know, his heart just...gave out.

His death, the first death of someone real close to me that I have had to go through, brought one of my biggest questions, to me, to the forefront of my mind. I mean, science and logic tells us that we have only one world. For all we know, we simply disappear. Poof, just like that. We're gone. To me, that's is the most frightening thing ever. Physical death doesn't scare me nearly as much as my soul being destroyed.

Feel free to laugh at me. Laugh at the small minded fellow that thinks theres something beyond this world. But honestly, I've been meaning to ask this question for quite a while, I just never got around to it.

Discuss, debate, laugh, mock, criticize, whatever. Just tell me what you think.

sorry to hear about your grandpa. I'm not gonna answer this because I just recently lost a friend, and I'm still fighting with it in my head.

Sorry to hear you lost your grandfather...

What happens? We cease to exist except in the memories of those whom we touched in some way...be it via books or film or even friendships or via family.

I was thinking about this earlier, when I heard by uncle died this morning aged just 53...I don't know what happens, but I hope it's something nice.

Well I can't add with a relative dying but one of my dad's best freinds died of liver cancer two days ago.

As far as what happens when you die, I beleive you either go straight into the presence of God or are sent immediately to hell.

Well, I don't really plan on it, but if I do die I'll be cryonically preserved so that someday I can come back and tell people what happens. It's kind of a win-win situation all around; expensive, but definitely worth it for the potential knowledge I can get from it. That's a good 60-70+ years away with 2007 technology, however, so I'm not particularly concerned either way.

I've thought this through and I realize that anything that happens after I die will likely suck compared to what I've got now, so I plan to avoid or shorten its duration at all costs.

Although some people might attribute that we determine things through our five senses, there's a theory I heard about regarding perception of the human mind. It generally states that we in all necessity perceive things no matter what we have or don't have. For example, if we are blind, we can still perceive blackness. If we're unconscious and knocked out, we perceive that we are in darkness. When we die, it's a mystery to wonder that because even though our physical body begins to rot and go away, what happens to our perception? If we are engulfed in blackness, then we would still perceive things, wouldn't we?

Well, you have said no decomposition answers, so I would say the electrical impluses in the brain are destroyed, and our consciousness will cease to exist, this is the most we can scientifically prove yes? Of course it's impossible for us humans to imagine ourselves not being conscious, as in not alive.

I personally believe that our world is the only persistant reality which we know, and in this persistant reality their is suffering yes? So I believe that if our legacy in some way after our deaths contributed to decreasing this socio-economic suffering and the like, then our lives will not have been in vain. I cannot say the same of those selfish individualists who live for the moment though, they truely have died in vain, and for ultimately for nothing when they die.

It's patently ridiculous to speculate on supernatural (as in, unprovable) ideas of life after our brain ceases to function.

Sorry to hear you lost your grandfather...

What happens? We cease to exist except in the memories of those whom we touched in some way...be it via books or film or even friendships or via family.

Yes.

We don't have a soul. We have a mind that is a series of impulses which constitutes our personalities. When we die our brain stops functioning. What else do you want?

Although some people might attribute that we determine things through our five senses, there's a theory I heard about regarding perception of the human mind. It generally states that we in all necessity perceive things no matter what we have or don't have. For example, if we are blind, we can still perceive blackness. If we're unconscious and knocked out, we perceive that we are in darkness. When we die, it's a mystery to wonder that because even though our physical body begins to rot and go away, what happens to our perception? If we are engulfed in blackness, then we would still perceive things, wouldn't we?

Huh? I don't quite understand. If our physical senses are what provides us with our perceptions, then how can we percept something if our bodies cease to function?

Don't worry about it. You will never know if there is nothing after life.

Be a good person and love life.

I know many members of NSG are Atheist. Does this mean you all believe that our soul (or whatever your term may be) will simply cease to exist?

Why is belief or disbelief in Deity always considered related to belief or disbelief in life after death? I personally am a Theist, but I do not believe in life after death*. My conception of Deities are that they are to do with our lives, not our deaths. When we die we are leaving Gods behind, not joining them.

*other than through technological means, that is. I believe that by the end of this century it will be possible to model a person's brain in a computer. At that point the death of the biological computational matter known as the "brain" will no longer necessarily mean the end for a conciousness. However that moment has unfortunately not yet come.

It's a simple question, really. What happens to us? And I don't mean the body. Yeah, you smartasses would say something about your body decomposing into a stiff bloated mass of cells. I mean something deeper. What happens to our consciousness, our soul, if you will. What happens to the thing that makes us...us?

I know many members of NSG are Atheist. Does this mean you all believe that our soul (or whatever your term may be) will simply cease to exist? Will all our knowledge, hopes, dreams, and fears disappear in a proverbial poof of dust? Will we, in the words of Monty Python, "Cease to be"? Will it be as though we had never existed in the first place? Or is there another plain of existence? Will our consciousness, being free from our flesh, zoom off into another world that we cannot even comprehend?

Equally, I know many members of NSG are religious in one way or another. I know many of us (myself included) don't really buy the standard story of the afterlife fed to us by mainstream religions. Is there a heaven, is there a hell? Will our soul be judged in some way, the good ascend into heaven to be with God, the wicked descend into hell to be eternally separated from God? Will we be reincarnated based on our deeds in this life? Is life simply a never ending cycle, with a soul beginning in human form and hopping from one animal to another?

This thread didn't just come out of the blue. About 5 hours ago, I received a call from my mother, informing me that my Grandfather had died. He had open hears surgery about 2 months ago, and was recovering slowly but surely. From what I know, his heart just...gave out.

His death, the first death of someone real close to me that I have had to go through, brought one of my biggest questions, to me, to the forefront of my mind. I mean, science and logic tells us that we have only one world. For all we know, we simply disappear. Poof, just like that. We're gone. To me, that's is the most frightening thing ever. Physical death doesn't scare me nearly as much as my soul being destroyed.

Feel free to laugh at me. Laugh at the small minded fellow that thinks theres something beyond this world. But honestly, I've been meaning to ask this question for quite a while, I just never got around to it.

Discuss, debate, laugh, mock, criticize, whatever. Just tell me what you think.

Your soul gets to effect the living , you can bless loved ones like guardian angel or curse people you don't like according to a Filipino beleif.

my sympathy for the loss of your grandfather.

your life exists forever in the time frame bounded by your birth and your death. like a timeline of the roman empire, your few years are always there in eternity. but no, you dont exist before your birth (or conception perhaps) and the time after your death is the same to you as the time before you were born, you are just not a part of it.

We lose all the rings we collected during the level.

http://www.section.at/img/smiley/engel.gif

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y223/GermanNightmare/Seele.gif

My honest answer is I really don't know.

My condolences to you loss, I can relate to you. The first time I was confronted with the finiteness of live my grandfather passed away. And although I don't remember much because I was only 5 y.o., I still cherish the few memories I have. ;)

Talk to other people about your grandfater - that will keep his memory alive.

depends on the type of person you were.

We lose consciousness. Permanently. Our body, including our brain, rots away to nothing.

We lose consciousness. Permanently. Our body, including our brain, rots away to nothing.

Well, that sucks for you.

Well, that sucks for you.

Better than being sentenced to Hell for eternity for a multitude of sins.

We press escape, Load Game, and load up our last quick save point.

Better than being sentenced to Hell for eternity for a multitude of sins.


Or being allowed into Paradise for following a few, easy to follow rules?

Or being allowed into Paradise for following a few, easy to follow rules?

Like not working on the sabbath?

Or being allowed into Paradise for following a few, easy to follow rules?

Of servility to a deity who tortures people eternally? I'll pass, thanks.

Like not working on the sabbath?


Nope only two..

Love God, and love your neighbor as yourself. Not so hard, ya?

I wonder if someone mentions 72 virgins?

Love God

Not only do I deny the existence of any such being, but as far as He is depicted traditionally, I have no inclination whatsoever to "love" Him.

So, no, not so "easy to follow" at all.

What happens when we die? I don't know.

Well I know what happens when you die. All I'm going to say is it's a big suprise.

It's a simple question, really. What happens to us? And I don't mean the body. Yeah, you smartasses would say something about your body decomposing into a stiff bloated mass of cells. I mean something deeper. What happens to our consciousness, our soul, if you will. What happens to the thing that makes us...us?

I know many members of NSG are Atheist. Does this mean you all believe that our soul (or whatever your term may be) will simply cease to exist? Will all our knowledge, hopes, dreams, and fears disappear in a proverbial poof of dust? Will we, in the words of Monty Python, "Cease to be"? Will it be as though we had never existed in the first place? Or is there another plain of existence? Will our consciousness, being free from our flesh, zoom off into another world that we cannot even comprehend?

Equally, I know many members of NSG are religious in one way or another. I know many of us (myself included) don't really buy the standard story of the afterlife fed to us by mainstream religions. Is there a heaven, is there a hell? Will our soul be judged in some way, the good ascend into heaven to be with God, the wicked descend into hell to be eternally separated from God? Will we be reincarnated based on our deeds in this life? Is life simply a never ending cycle, with a soul beginning in human form and hopping from one animal to another?

This thread didn't just come out of the blue. About 5 hours ago, I received a call from my mother, informing me that my Grandfather had died. He had open hears surgery about 2 months ago, and was recovering slowly but surely. From what I know, his heart just...gave out.

His death, the first death of someone real close to me that I have had to go through, brought one of my biggest questions, to me, to the forefront of my mind. I mean, science and logic tells us that we have only one world. For all we know, we simply disappear. Poof, just like that. We're gone. To me, that's is the most frightening thing ever. Physical death doesn't scare me nearly as much as my soul being destroyed.

Feel free to laugh at me. Laugh at the small minded fellow that thinks theres something beyond this world. But honestly, I've been meaning to ask this question for quite a while, I just never got around to it.

Discuss, debate, laugh, mock, criticize, whatever. Just tell me what you think.

Personally? Here I know I'll get mocked for admitting to believe this, probably for being "close-minded", "unscientific", and "biased", but I think you go to either heaven or hell depending on if you were a Christian in life. A real one, not saying you're one. But I don't like brandishing it in people's faces..

http://www.bristolzoo.org.uk/resources/images/Gorilla%20medium.jpg

Well, you have said no decomposition answers, so I would say the electrical impluses in the brain are destroyed,

Elementary physics tells us this is imposable as energy, like matter, can not be created or destroyed; it can only change form. So what do the impulses in your brain change form INTO?

Elementary physics tells us this is imposable as energy, like matter, can not be created or destroyed; it can only change form. So what do the impulses in your brain change form INTO?

heat, and devoured by other creatures.

http://www.bristolzoo.org.uk/resources/images/Gorilla%20medium.jpg

Another reason why I don't want to die...ever.

Almost all of the possible post-mortem alternatives suck. I like being me on Earth (or wherever I end up) and knowing that I can get both the really good and the really evil in my current form, and I like being free to do what I want without some celestial taskmaster keeping an eye on me.

I mean, I don't think there's any porn in heaven, nor videogames or internet access. WTF am I supposed to do all day? Pray?

WTF am I supposed to do all day? Pray?

Enjoy unlimited supernatural happiness?

Enjoy unlimited supernatural happiness?

Eh, I'm pretty skeptical that I'd consider anything God considers "happiness" to be happy. I mean, he seems more like the sort of guy that would make us worship him for all eternity or something horrendous like that. Plus, I still effectively lose my free will, which would make it far worse than anything I had before...I mean, that pretty much means heaven is nothing more than eternal damnation to a gilded cage.

Eh, I'm pretty skeptical that I'd consider anything God considers "happiness" to be happy.

Since your conception of happiness is human, the supernatural happiness of Heaven need not be comprehensible to you in your present state.

Which is kind of depressing in and of itself. I'm not sure I'm so inclined to embrace a radically different kind of happiness.

I mean, he seems more like the sort of guy that would make us worship him for all eternity or something horrendous like that.

For our own good, of course. ;)

Plus, I still effectively lose my free will, which would make it far worse than anything I had before...

Why would you effectively lose your free will?

Since your conception of happiness is human, the supernatural happiness of Heaven need not be comprehensible to you in your present state.

I'm not too keen on following someone when they tell me that I'll be happy even if it sounds bad now. I'm all for trying new things; I mean, I'd give it a shot if it were for a single night or a week or whatever, but I'd definitely not gamble eternity on it.

Which is kind of depressing in and of itself. I'm not sure I'm so inclined to embrace a radically different kind of happiness.

It would be an intensely alienating experience if you ask me. Heaven would be far more desirable if it were something we could understand and appreciate now rather than have to hope it's something we want.

For our own good, of course. ;)

Every time God does something for our own good, it seems to turn out incredibly badly for everyone involved. For some reason, I don't want to risk having him do things "for my own good" for all eternity.

Why would you effectively lose your free will?

Well, assuming that we're talking the Abrahamic God, I'd just look at the last time someone tried to go against God's will. We got kicked out of the Garden, were forced to be mortal, and were forced to live lives of toil and difficulty.

And that was just for seeking moral knowledge, which one would think a loving God would have entrusted his creation with to begin with. This guy doesn't seem too keen on allowing us free will or free thought.

i think im linked in some way to my cousin (boy), just like my sister is linked to his twin (girl). im 22 (male), my sister is 18, my cousins are 11 as of february

we're far too similar in personality (and a bit physically) to not have something in common (hes totally like me, shes totally like my sister), whatever the plain is... soul mates, genetic disposition, etc

we're just linked in some way for sure.
- sometimes i feel pain when one of them gets hurt for example.
- constant synchronized thoughts and same opinions.
- same beliefs, even if we had totally different education and we didn't spent much time together in the past, until they (the cousins) were about 9yo... which was recent. back then they were already way too similar to us
- same skills, same weaknesses. same likes and dislikes...
i wouldn't say 100% match/clone, both psychically and mentally... but i guess a close 70-90% would be accurate
unexplainable things, unless you explain everything with genetics

what happens if one of us dies? good question. maybe we will be "de-linked". maybe we stay linked in some way, even after death

if there is a link between twins, sisters & brothers, cousins and all, "soul mates", etc... maybe there is links between you and the rest of your ancestors

maybe that is what persists after death. some kind of link. whatever the link is. a soul, karma, or whatnot... to your family, to your relatives - isn't that what mediums are all about?

i think im linked in some way to my cousin (boy), just like my sister is linked to his twin (girl). im 22 (male), my sister is 18, my cousins are 11 as of february

we're far too similar in personality (and a bit physically) to not have something in common (hes totally like me, shes totally like my sister), whatever the plain is... soul mates, genetic disposition, etc

we're just linked in some way for sure.
- sometimes i feel pain when one of them gets hurt for example.
- constant synchronized thoughts and same opinions.
- same beliefs, even if we had totally different education and we didn't spent much time together in the past, until they (the cousins) were about 9yo... which was recent. back then they were already way too similar to us
- same skills, same weaknesses. same likes and dislikes...
i wouldn't say 100% match/clone, both psychically and mentally... but i guess a close 70-90% would be accurate
unexplainable things, unless you explain everything with genetics

what happens if one of us dies? good question. maybe we will be "de-linked". maybe we stay linked in some way, even after death

if there is a link between twins, sisters & brothers, cousins and all, "soul mates", etc... maybe there is links between you and the rest of your ancestors

maybe that is what persists after death. some kind of link. whatever the link is. a soul, karma, or whatnot... to your family, to your relatives - isn't that what mediums are all about?

You're 22?

I'm sorry about your grandfather. I just recently lost my mother, so I can relate.

I have no idea what happens after we die. I have theories and ideas, and certainly there are things that I would like to believe. I do believe that independent of our bodies we are energy, and energy can't be destroyed, only changed. So while our bodies die, our energy doesn't - what happens to the energy - whether we are reincarnated or join a universal energy field or something else is arguable - I kind of like the idea of reincarnation.

Eh, I'm pretty skeptical that I'd consider anything God considers "happiness" to be happy. I mean, he seems more like the sort of guy that would make us worship him for all eternity or something horrendous like that. Plus, I still effectively lose my free will, which would make it far worse than anything I had before...I mean, that pretty much means heaven is nothing more than eternal damnation to a gilded cage.


That is the traditional interpretation of heaven, although I subscribe to a more liberal belief.

Harkening back to the bible itself, we find that "Heaven" and "Hell" are more accurately described as being in the presence of God, or being seperated from Him, respectively. Both of these are reflections of your free will decisions here on Earth.

The notion that we lose our free will in Heaven seems unlikely to me - why go through all the trouble to create fellow creators if it's only temporary?



Of course, if you DO lose your free will, logically, you won't miss it, since you won't be free to. :lol:

I think there is nothing after we die. There is no soul, or further life. We simply cease to exist.

Its just like goint to sleep. Your conscience just "dies" or stay dormant.

"Oh, but we dream". Yes, but you only remember it when you wake up. THere are some theories that say dreams are created in that instant your brain gets waked up, just before your body actually wakes up. That is why sometimes we dream about those things that made we wake up (like people, telephones, pain etc).

You die, it all ends. You know how you can never remember WHEN you slept? Death is the same. Life probabily just fades aways and your conscience dies.

Anyway, I believe humans have too high regards for themselves. Heaven, paradise? Humans have been around for 140.000 years (a thousand years less or more). Thousands of generations have been born, lived and died. Billions of people have walked the earth, dreamed, developed and died. And we are the same. We will live our simple lives and in 1000 years no one will care about us.

We only believe in the afterlife because:
- We are afraid of death and the end of our conscience.
- It makes it easier to accept the death of our loved and closed ones, because we will be able to meet them, or because we feel they are in a better place.
- It makes us believe we have another chance after we die, either because our body is not functioning well anymore or because you havent lived the life you wanted.

Of course, there are other reasons, but those are the most important. But they dont mean anything. We are nothing but animals that believe they are too important ("Humans have souls, animals dont"). Our "soul" or "spirit" is nothing but the continued functions of our brain working to keep our mind and body alive.

When someone dies and gets brought back, its not the soul coming back, but the restart of the brain, which starts working back just like our heart does if shocked after stoping.

It's a simple question, really. What happens to us? And I don't mean the body. Yeah, you smartasses would say something about your body decomposing into a stiff bloated mass of cells. I mean something deeper. What happens to our consciousness, our soul, if you will. What happens to the thing that makes us...us?

I know many members of NSG are Atheist. Does this mean you all believe that our soul (or whatever your term may be) will simply cease to exist? Will all our knowledge, hopes, dreams, and fears disappear in a proverbial poof of dust? Will we, in the words of Monty Python, "Cease to be"? Will it be as though we had never existed in the first place?

Why would you think otherwise? In reality all our mind, our emotions, our memories, our thoughts and dreams, they're all the actions of many electric signals running through our brains. There is no higher or spiritual being, really. We tell ourselves that because it makes it easier to cope with death from an emotional standpoint, but when you die, that's it. There is nothing afterwards. With the end of the signals in your brain so to are you ended. You have no soul. You have no afterlife. You just...cease to be.

Is it somewhat sad? Yeah, but by facing reality we can learn a new appreciation for what we have. I know I certainly appreciate life a lot more than some of my fellow NSers. It's part of why I'm a pacifist. Life is precious, sentient life even more so. It is rare, and when it's gone, it's gone. There's nothing after. So we must keep ahold of what life we have, prevent any and all sentient life from perishing if possible, and try to live in harmony with one another.

Well, first, you get a blank stare.
Then rigor mortis sets in.
The blood pools at the lowest points of the body, however you are lying on the ground.

Then there's a rotting smell.

Well, first, you get a blank stare.
Then rigor mortis sets in.
The blood pools at the lowest points of the body, however you are lying on the ground.

Then there's a rotting smell.

You forgot the part where you crap yourself :D

His death, the first death of someone real close to me that I have had to go through, brought one of my biggest questions, to me, to the forefront of my mind. I mean, science and logic tells us that we have only one world. For all we know, we simply disappear. Poof, just like that. We're gone. To me, that's is the most frightening thing ever. Physical death doesn't scare me nearly as much as my soul being destroyed.

I know it is scary for many people to think that they may one day cease to exist. But, really, there was a time in the past when you did not exist, so why be surprised that there will be a time in the future when you do not exist?

Our lives are finite. This does not make them any less important, any more than a book is less important because it has a final chapter.

I believe that confronting your mortality is essential if you are going to truly live your life. I do not believe it is possible to be fully a part of your own existence if you will not acknowledge the most fundamental fact of that existence: that you are finite. There was a time when you were not, and there will be a time when you cease to be. Knowing what you are must include knowing what you are in time. Understanding yourself includes understanding your limitations, and accepting them as a part of yourself.

It is not shameful to feel fear. It is not shameful to be sad at the thought of not being alive any more. I enjoy being alive, and I am sometimes sad at the thought of all the things I will not have the time to do in my brief lifespan. But nothing will be helped by indulging in fantasies of eternal life. Indeed, such fantasizing only takes away more of the precious moments you have to be alive.

I am a "devout" Atheist, but as to death..... I admit that I do not know and that I can not know. Therefore, I do not fear death either; why fear something which is inevitable and unknowable?

Do we fear space? No. We explore it. Did Columbus fear the ocean? No. He crossed it. So why do we fear death?

Truth be told, actually knowing what happens upon death is impossible. It is all up to what you believe. You might believe that your soul will go to heaven or hell for all eternity upon death, another might believe that it will just stop, vanish, cease to be, that the drop of consciousness into the ocean of spacetime will be swallowed by the whole, never to separate itself again.

People may believe what they want; I let them. Why not? In the end, what matters most is what you yourself think, feel or believe.

Nope only two..

Love God, and love your neighbor as yourself. Not so hard, ya?

so basically god tells us "you'd better love me, or else you'll be tortured for eternity in hell"?

that's not what I call love.

Have any of you considered the possibility that when you die you do NOT loose conscousness? What if as your body starts to rot away and be eaten by scavangers you feel every agonizing detail. Basically you are trapped in a state of permanent paralyisis, unable to move or even cry out in pain as you feel the excruciating agony of your own decomposition? What if you are trapped in this state for all eternity?

so basically god tells us "you'd better love me, or else you'll be tortured for eternity in hell"?

that's not what I call love.

No, I see that as "Here's an invitation to be with me. If you don't want to live forever with me, you don't have to come."

Personally? Here I know I'll get mocked for admitting to believe this, probably for being "close-minded", "unscientific", and "biased", but I think you go to either heaven or hell depending on if you were a Christian in life. A real one, not saying you're one. But I don't like brandishing it in people's faces..

being "unscientific" on this one is quite a given... that doesn't make it "bad" in any way.

as for being close-minded, I don't see it. you would if you said it was stupid for other people to think otherwise...

Enjoy unlimited supernatural happiness?

o_O like, being high all day?

sorry :p

No, I see that as "Here's an invitation to be with me. If you don't want to live forever with me, you don't have to come."

well then what about the hell part?

well then what about the hell part?

To me Hell is anywhere else except Heaven.

Including here and now.

If you don't want to go to Heaven and hang out, that's your decision.

To me Hell is anywhere else except Heaven.

Including here and now.

If you don't want to go to Heaven and hang out, that's your decision.

well if I'm in hell right now, it seems I can live with it (or die with it, whatever...).

well if I'm in hell right now, it seems I can live with it (or die with it, whatever...).

That's your choice. He's not forcing you.

When you die, yor perceptions turn inward. Without external stimuli, time loses meaning and those last few firings of neurons stretch toward eternity. Within your internalized perceptions, you exist in a universe entirely of your own making. This universe can take the form of an afterlife, the next life, or perhaps something even more unusual or exotic. This universe is shaped by your subconscious and reflects how you perceive yourself and your idea of 'what comes after death'.

In other words, those who believe themselves worthy of Heaven go to Heaven. Those who believe themselves worthy of Hell go to Hell. Those who believe in nothing go nowhere. Those who believe they will be reborn are reborn. Those who believe that the afterlife is a magical land full of tacos, pools of mud, roving bands of maniacs and happy-go-lucky sexual deviants can look me up when they get there. :)

Sorry to hear of your loss.

I believe that after death, you will experience what you believed in,according to how you lived your life.

If you had faith in heaven and hell, you'll probably experience one or the other.
If you didnt believe in anything,then maybe you just end.


I dont think my faith inflicts itself on someone that lived out their life in a rainforest with a totally different set of beliefs.

Your brain shuts off.

Your brain shuts off.

Some are already in standby mode. :)

Some are already in standby mode. :)

Some people lack one all together.

Some people lack one all together.

Not to have one's mind is a terrible thing.

Not to have one's mind is a terrible thing.

They still find a solid career in media and broadcasting though :p

They still find a solid career in media and broadcasting though :p

Or politics. ;)

Have any of you considered the possibility that when you die you do NOT loose conscousness? What if as your body starts to rot away and be eaten by scavangers you feel every agonizing detail. Basically you are trapped in a state of permanent paralyisis, unable to move or even cry out in pain as you feel the excruciating agony of your own decomposition? What if you are trapped in this state for all eternity?

as creepy scary as that scenario is, we know its not true. the brain works with bio-electricity. when you are dead, there is no brain function to feel anything. its not a kind of paralysis. its death.

<snip>

Our consciousness is located in our brain. Once that stops functioning, we're gone. It's pretty simple, actually.

Our consciousness is located in our brain. Once that stops functioning, we're gone. It's pretty simple, actually.

Except for George W. Bush. His consciousness is in his ass. :)

Except for George W. Bush. His consciousness is in his ass. :)

I firmly beleive he's a zombie, anyway.

I firmly beleive he's a zombie, anyway.

That's Dick Cheney. Pacemaker my ass. They animated his corpse. :p

They still find a solid career in media and broadcasting though :p

You do know its all in the teeth and hair,right? If those are good,the lack of a mind doesnt matter much.

We rot and we die...

More info and demonstration: Linky (http://www.seemerot.com) (Warning: Link sort of disturbing)

We rot and we die...

More info and demonstration: Linky (http://www.seemerot.com) (Warning: Link sort of disturbing)

It's best that you remove the link before Steel Butterfly or Fass whines about it to the mods.

It's best that you remove the link before Steel Butterfly or Fass whines about it to the mods.

There's a warning, there's no gore and no sex. I've seen much, much worse on here. So I doubt they'll have a problem with it.

My sympathies to you. Once the brain ceases to function, we cease to exist. We are nothing more than our mind, and our mind eventually gives out completely. I reject the notion of there being a brain/consciousness split; our consciousness is our mind, and when what houses the mind stops working, so does our consciousness.

We become worm food.

I really think religion is a bed time story we tell ourselves. I don't believe in it in the slightest.

Have a good time while you're here. Do some good for the next generations. Don't stress it, you won't know any different after you're gone.

I'm sorry for your loss. Death sucks.

It's a simple question, really. What happens to us? And I don't mean the body. Yeah, you smartasses would say something about your body decomposing into a stiff bloated mass of cells. I mean something deeper. What happens to our consciousness, our soul, if you will. What happens to the thing that makes us...us?

I know many members of NSG are Atheist. Does this mean you all believe that our soul (or whatever your term may be) will simply cease to exist? Will all our knowledge, hopes, dreams, and fears disappear in a proverbial poof of dust? Will we, in the words of Monty Python, "Cease to be"? Will it be as though we had never existed in the first place? Or is there another plain of existence? Will our consciousness, being free from our flesh, zoom off into another world that we cannot even comprehend?

Equally, I know many members of NSG are religious in one way or another. I know many of us (myself included) don't really buy the standard story of the afterlife fed to us by mainstream religions. Is there a heaven, is there a hell? Will our soul be judged in some way, the good ascend into heaven to be with God, the wicked descend into hell to be eternally separated from God? Will we be reincarnated based on our deeds in this life? Is life simply a never ending cycle, with a soul beginning in human form and hopping from one animal to another?

This thread didn't just come out of the blue. About 5 hours ago, I received a call from my mother, informing me that my Grandfather had died. He had open hears surgery about 2 months ago, and was recovering slowly but surely. From what I know, his heart just...gave out.

His death, the first death of someone real close to me that I have had to go through, brought one of my biggest questions, to me, to the forefront of my mind. I mean, science and logic tells us that we have only one world. For all we know, we simply disappear. Poof, just like that. We're gone. To me, that's is the most frightening thing ever. Physical death doesn't scare me nearly as much as my soul being destroyed.

Feel free to laugh at me. Laugh at the small minded fellow that thinks theres something beyond this world. But honestly, I've been meaning to ask this question for quite a while, I just never got around to it.

Discuss, debate, laugh, mock, criticize, whatever. Just tell me what you think.


I morn your loss of your grandfather with you and I pray the lord to grant you the strength to deal with his death and that he also grant you his peace that tells your grampa is in heaven with the Lord now. I do this because the first is always the worse because it is something that has never been experienced before. The death of family and friends never get easy by any means, but after a while you realize this is part of the human condition & that Jesus stands at the end of your crossing journey to those who believe in him. So take heart and know for a fact that the soul does not just end with the coming of death.

My sympathies to you. Once the brain ceases to function, we cease to exist. We are nothing more than our mind, and our mind eventually gives out completely. I reject the notion of there being a brain/consciousness split; our consciousness is our mind, and when what houses the mind stops working, so does our consciousness.


I beg to differ mindset

I beg to differ mindset

Of course you do, but you're of the xtian persuasion and cannot see reason or reality.

Of course you do, but you're of the xtian persuasion and cannot see reason or reality.

Woah, calm down. No need to attack him personally.

I do wonder why he persists in believing in an afterlife. Scientifically and logically one makes no sense, except for perhaps Lunatic Goofballs little time perception loss bit, which I will certainly accept as possible, though definitely not for all deaths, as it makes sense.

Woah, calm down. No need to attack him personally.

I do wonder why he persists in believing in an afterlife. Scientifically and logically one makes no sense, except for perhaps Lunatic Goofballs little time perception loss bit, which I will certainly accept as possible, though definitely not for all deaths, as it makes sense.

I don't see how I was attacking him personally. If anything, I was attacking his religion.

I don't see how I was attacking him personally. If anything, I was attacking his religion.

cannot see reason or reality.
You implied he could not think properly for one reason or another, which most would interpret as a personal attack. I would, at least. Not that I'd be bothered by it, but it's still an attack.

When a person dies, they are no longer capable of intaking food or water, so without energy, the brain ceases to function. That's basically it. (The body can conceivably stay alive independently of the brain, if the death-causing injury is to the brain or head alone and the rest of the body continues to work from the spinal cord's reflexes.)

What it will be like for you to die will be something you'll find out when it happens to you, I guess.

Being without a conscious is so hard to imagine. We have all lived our entire lives through our own perspective, and it's how we view the world. That conscious has, put simply, always been there. It's hard to imagine if that were just gone. That's probably one reason that the concept of an afterlife, whether or not it exists, was developed in the human psyche. The major religions all seem to have a concept of the afterlife in one form or another, be it heaven/hell/purgatory, be it reincarnation, or be it post-mortem spiritual nirvana.

The idea does bring about several questions; the most interesting may have to do with reincarnation.

If we're reincarnated, do we always come back as humans? Can animals be reincarnated? Is there cross-species reincarnation, and how extensive is it? Can a human be reincarnated as an amoeba or as a blade of grass? And can someone on Earth be reincarnated as someone on Omicron Persei 8? That blade of grass out there in your yard...when that dies, is it reincarnated as another blade of grass? A bacterium? A frog? A Japanese businessman? A slug-person from Omicron Persei 8? Or even in a parallel universe? Also, the number of creatures, plants, etc. keeps changing, and there has to be a number of creatures/plants/single-celled-bacteria in this world alone that numbers in the God-knows-how-highs. But what if that number changes dramatically? Is there a waiting list in heaven to go to Earth? Is there a long turnaround time for some and a very short turnaround time for others? Are people just non-existent in between then, remember nothing, and spend thousands of years in between lives as single-celled organisms? Or, going back to the waiting list, can a person consciously spend 10,000 years waiting on a chance to return to Earth as a fungus?

All these questions make me hope that there is an afterlife, because the possibilities for it are virtually endless.

Of course you do, but you're of the xtian persuasion and cannot see reason or reality.


Jesus is the Reason, Christianity is Reality. :cool:

Jesus is the Reason, Christianity is Reality. :cool:

Care to prove that?

Well there is a center of the brain that lights up during religious ceremonies. When you have a religious experience the god node lights up like a christmas tree. Remember nature doesn't build useless parts, doesn't keep them either.

As for that their is definitive evidence of an energy pattern escaping the body after death. Not saying its total Christian heaven parable..but something wonky happens with our minds on death. There is something definitely left behind. So there is some evidence to suggest a soul exists. Once again, not a majour bible thumper, I just like to read interesting things and watch interesting shows on discovery channel <.<. Religion is interesting, so is death. A curiosity of death is the one thing everyone shares

Well there is a center of the brain that lights up during religious ceremonies. When you have a religious experience the god node lights up like a christmas tree. Remember nature doesn't build useless parts, doesn't keep them either.

As for that their is definitive evidence of an energy pattern escaping the body after death. Not saying its total Christian heaven parable..but something wonky happens with our minds on death. There is something definitely left behind. So there is some evidence to suggest a soul exists. Once again, not a majour bible thumper, I just like to read interesting things and watch interesting shows on discovery channel <.<. Religion is interesting, so is death. A curiosity of death is the one thing everyone shares

...God node? What in the hell...and where is your proof for this "energy pattern" escaping the body after death? I've heard absolutely naught about it.

Care to prove that?


Care to prove I am wrong?

Well there is a center of the brain that lights up during religious ceremonies. When you have a religious experience the god node lights up like a christmas tree. Remember nature doesn't build useless parts, doesn't keep them either.

As for that their is definitive evidence of an energy pattern escaping the body after death. Not saying its total Christian heaven parable..but something wonky happens with our minds on death. There is something definitely left behind. So there is some evidence to suggest a soul exists. Once again, not a majour bible thumper, I just like to read interesting things and watch interesting shows on discovery channel <.<. Religion is interesting, so is death. A curiosity of death is the one thing everyone shares

this wasnt a serious post was it?

Care to prove I am wrong?
I could...but then again, you're making the claim, so the burden of proof is on your hands, not mine.

Care to prove I am wrong?

It's poor form to answer a question with a question.

Care to prove I am wrong?
You can't prove a negative. No proof against something doesn't mean it's right.

this wasnt a serious post was it?
Ashmoria, Tannelorn. Tannelorn, Ashmoria....

I could...but then again, you're making the claim, so the burden of proof is on your hands, not mine.


My proof is the Bible, thats all the proof I need. You on the other hand can't prove I'm wrong.

It's poor form to answer a question with a question.


I answered him the same way he challeged me.

i think im linked in some way to my cousin (boy), just like my sister is linked to his twin (girl). im 22 (male), my sister is 18, my cousins are 11 as of february

we're far too similar in personality (and a bit physically) to not have something in common (hes totally like me, shes totally like my sister), whatever the plain is... soul mates, genetic disposition, etc

we're just linked in some way for sure.
- sometimes i feel pain when one of them gets hurt for example.
- constant synchronized thoughts and same opinions.
- same beliefs, even if we had totally different education and we didn't spent much time together in the past, until they (the cousins) were about 9yo... which was recent. back then they were already way too similar to us
- same skills, same weaknesses. same likes and dislikes...
i wouldn't say 100% match/clone, both psychically and mentally... but i guess a close 70-90% would be accurate
unexplainable things, unless you explain everything with genetics

what happens if one of us dies? good question. maybe we will be "de-linked". maybe we stay linked in some way, even after death

if there is a link between twins, sisters & brothers, cousins and all, "soul mates", etc... maybe there is links between you and the rest of your ancestors

maybe that is what persists after death. some kind of link. whatever the link is. a soul, karma, or whatnot... to your family, to your relatives - isn't that what mediums are all about?

You're 22?
so?

about the grandfather... my sympathies as well

mine died almost a year ago, 3rd june 2006
oddly, he chose to die in my aunt's birthday (the kids mother)

it was an heart failure. he was getting increasingly sick and worse, even with the pacemaker he received a month or so before. i guess he just knew he was going to die soon, so he picked his daughter birthday for that

he was 79 yo, born 16 march 1927. my great grandmother (mother of my grandmother) died at 97 yo if i recall well, close to a 100. both of them were pretty much healthy until the last few years of life

I have been thinking about this recently after the death of my best friend just a couple days ago. It's disturbing and causes me much fear.

My proof is the Bible, thats all the proof I need. You on the other hand can't prove I'm wrong.

The Bible is a series of documents written by countless different people over the course of many centuries eventually accumulated into one book. The Bible has also been translated, retranslated, translated again, altered to fit the needs of those in power(The Church of England, anyone?) and essentially has been a game of Telephone for the past 2000 years.

In other words the Bible is a notoriously unreliable "document" that is more a series of fictional stories than anything else. Now, if you can prove the Bible is factually accurate and written "by God" then by all means do so.

My proof is the Bible, thats all the proof I need. You on the other hand can't prove I'm wrong.

I can prove a lot of things using Dr Suess.

My proof is the Bible, thats all the proof I need. You on the other hand can't prove I'm wrong.
The bible is only proof for Jew-ish ideology and resulting presumptuousness, but certainly not for the events it claims to describe. Least of all it is proof on how and what a certain god is.

The bible is only proof for Jew-ish ideology and resulting presumptuousness, but certainly not for the events it claims to describe. Least of all it is proof on how and what a certain god is.

Aye. If a religious text were proof that the religion and God enscribed within are reality then every God and Goddess that has ever been written about exists, and something tells me he would not find that acceptable.

Aye. If a religious text were proof that the religion and God enscribed within are reality then every God and Goddess that has ever been written about exists, and something tells me he would not find that acceptable.

Exodus 20:2-17
2 I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery;
3 you shall have no other gods before me.
(Source: Wikipedia, Ten Commandments article)

Where does it say that there are no other gods? "You shall have no other gods before me" implies very strongly that there are. Also, it does not say that you should not worship them; merely that you should not worship them as more important than "the" God.

The Bible is a series of documents written by countless different people over the course of many centuries eventually accumulated into one book. The Bible has also been translated, retranslated, translated again, altered to fit the needs of those in power(The Church of England, anyone?) and essentially has been a game of Telephone for the past 2000 years.The first bible is the Septuaginta,the text that was assembled and written down in Greek during the reigns of the first Ptolemies in Egypt. Before that only (unrelated) texts of more or less antiquity existed. In the Septuaginta those texts were collected and streamlined to form a somewhat homogeneous ideology/theology, and above all to create an alternative history for the Jews and their supposed ancestors, the Israelites and even Hebrews. All other bibles are copies or alterations of the Septuaginta, including Hebrew re-translations. In the Middle Ages the Masoretes adjusted the grammar, pronunciation, paragraph and verse divisions, but they also "adjusted" names and changed the meaning of passages to make them more fitting to the teachings of Judaism of their own time. Subsequently the Masoretic text was used by Christian translators (such as Martin Luther or those in the service of king James) to obtain the Old Testament.

Exodus 20:2-17
2 I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery;
3 you shall have no other gods before me.
(Source: Wikipedia, Ten Commandments article)

Where does it say that there are no other gods? "You shall have no other gods before me" implies very strongly that there are. Also, it does not say that you should not worship them; merely that you should not worship them as more important than "the" God.

Right, but every OTHER religious text also says that!

I have no idea where in the Qu'ran it's written, but I'm sure you're familiar with "There is no God but Allah, and Muhammed is his prophet" phrase? And I'm sure there are other similiar phrases in many other religious texts.

Again, I ask why a religious text written over centuries by scores of different people and translated and retranslated from various different languages(and if you've ever tried to translate something you know that oftentimes languages have concepts nigh impossible to show in any other language) is proof that it is reality. I could write a book declaring my water bottle to be God, but would that make my water bottle a god? No.

The first bible is the Septuaginta,the text that was assembled and written down in Greek during the reigns of the first Ptolemies in Egypt. Before that only (unrelated) texts of more or less antiquity existed. In the Septuaginta those texts were collected and streamlined to form a somewhat homogeneous ideology/theology, and above all to create an alternative history for the Jews and their supposed ancestors, the Israelites and even Hebrews. All other bibles are copies or alterations of the Septuaginta, including Hebrew re-translations. In the Middle Ages the Masoretes adjusted the grammar, pronunciation, paragraph and verse divisions, but they also "adjusted" names and changed the meaning of passages to make them more fitting to the teachings of Judaism of their own time. Subsequently the Masoretic text was used by Christian translators (such as Martin Luther or those in the service of king James) to obtain the Old Testament.
...

Oh really? See, you should listen to this guy. He knows what he's talking about a lot more than I do.

The Bible is a series of documents written by countless different people over the course of many centuries eventually accumulated into one book. The Bible has also been translated, retranslated, translated again, altered to fit the needs of those in power(The Church of England, anyone?) and essentially has been a game of Telephone for the past 2000 years.

In other words the Bible is a notoriously unreliable "document" that is more a series of fictional stories than anything else. Now, if you can prove the Bible is factually accurate and written "by God" then by all means do so.


So you say, I can tell you from personal experience that the scriptures written within the Bible are reliable because they all were inspired by God even though they were written by various people. Further you will find this out the hard way when you stand before the Lord if you don't except it before then.