NationStates Jolt Archive

For years, I've always labeled an unpleasant and difficult position or project as a tar baby (http://xroads.virginia.edu/~ug97/remus/tar-baby.html). Never thought that it might be a racial slur. Of course, I never thought the word "niggardly" could be thought of as a slur, either, but there it is (http://www.cnn.com/US/9901/27/word.flap/)... Anyhow, it seems like John McCain (http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2007/3/16/220534.shtml?s=ic) and I are in the same boat over the use of "tar baby". Not quite, I'm not a nationally known contender for office, so my use of the phrase is a little less obvious. But he's getting slammed for using the phrase properly and I'm worried about becoming the object of an Equal Opportunity complaint. Where does all this crap end? Next thing you know, asking to be thrown in the briar patch (http://xroads.virginia.edu/~ug97/remus/toosharp.html) will be off-limits, as well.

So when did "tar baby" become a slur? Or is this just the case of another professional victim looking for a way to be offended.

Just try to find a copy of "Song of the South" anywhere.

For some reason, it no longer exists.

Pretty soon,saying "Zippity-Do-Dah" will be a slur as well. :rolleyes:

Just try to find a copy of "Song of the South" anywhere.

For some reason, it no longer exists.

Pretty soon,saying "Zippity-Do-Dah" will be a slur as well. :rolleyes:
There's also the Little Golden Book story, "Little Black Sambo". The story where the kid outsmarts a tiger...Nothing racially motivated there, just a nice children's story.

Myrmi, I disagree with you on almost every issue. And when I say almost, I mean practically every single one.

Except for this. Jesus bloody Christ, he was referring to a children's story. It wasn't racially motivated, it has nothing to do with race.

However, the article doesn't say that what, if any, groups were angered by the term, though.

So, if apologized out of the blue, that'd be odd, if he was forced to because people were pissed, it's annoying that he had to.

Tony Snow got into some hot water over this a few months ago too, didn't he? Yeah, much ado about nothing, I think. There are much more relevant things to dislike McCain over.

There are some things that are very accurately called tar babies. I hate the fact that I'm having a great euphemism taken away for absolutely no good reason, except that some ignorant -- got to be a Yankee, 'cause we all know the story, has decided to be offended.

Tony Snow got into some hot water over this a few months ago too, didn't he? Yeah, much ado about nothing, I think. There are much more relevant things to dislike McCain over.

Basically, anything any politician says nowadays is a slur, if their opponents deem it to be a slur.

Everyone claims to have innate knowledge of the inner workings and thoughts of other people - so when people say something like "tar baby", of course his opponents can say "oh he's a fucking racist bastard!".

We do the same thing on this forum - claim to know what everyone is really thinking regardless of what words were put down in a post.

Although it's not a valid method of argument, it's always easier to say, "oh he's a fucking bigot" than it is to talk about the subject he was bringing up.

Myrmi, I disagree with you on almost every issue. And when I say almost, I mean practically every single one.

Except for this. Jesus bloody Christ, he was referring to a children's story. It wasn't racially motivated, it has nothing to do with race.

However, the article doesn't say that what, if any, groups were angered by the term, though.

So, if apologized out of the blue, that'd be odd, if he was forced to because people were pissed, it's annoying that he had to.

Yeah, it might have been a pre-emptive apology, or it might have been an apology that was driven by a question or comment at the Iowa town meeting. Who knows? In any event, that remark has received way more attention that Robert, KKK, Byrd ever got over his "white ******" remark.

Double standards? Of course not. /sarcasm.

Just try to find a copy of "Song of the South" anywhere.

For some reason, it no longer exists.

Pretty soon,saying "Zippity-Do-Dah" will be a slur as well. :rolleyes:

From wiki:

Despite rumors of a forthcoming DVD release, this exchange took place between a shareholder and Disney CEO Robert Iger on Friday, March 10, 2006 at a Disney Shareholder Meeting:

"My name is Howard Cromer. I live in Cypress, I'm a Disney shareholder. I'm actually delivering a message from my son, 10. He wants to know in recent years, in the midst of all your re-releases of your videos, why you haven't released Song of the South on your Disney Classics? ..."

Iger: "... We've discussed this a lot. We believe it's actually an opportunity from a financial perspective to put Song of the South out. I screened it fairly recently because I hadn't seen it since I was a child, and I have to tell you after I watched it, even considering the context that it was made, I had some concerns about it because of what it depicted. And though it's quite possible that people wouldn't consider it in the context that it was made, and there were some... [long pause] depictions that I mentioned earlier in the film that I think would be bothersome to a lot of people. And so, owing to the sensitivity that exists in our culture, balancing it with the desire to, uh, maybe increase our earnings a bit, but never putting that in front of what we thought were our ethics and our integrity, we made the decision not to re-release it. Not a decision that is made forever, I imagine this is going to continue to come up, but for now we simply don't have plans to bring it back because of the sensitivities that I mentioned. Sorry."

-------------------------------------------------------

I don't have any problem with Iger. Also, if you actually want a copy, they are easy to get.

Going off topic, but I am always amused when people bitch about having to be PC and how they aren't allowed to use expressions because they insult or annoy people. Why, when there are other phrases you can use, do you want to use one which is hurtful? What kind of prick does that?

As for the phrase tar baby, I've never even heard of it.

From wiki:

Despite rumors of a forthcoming DVD release, this exchange took place between a shareholder and Disney CEO Robert Iger on Friday, March 10, 2006 at a Disney Shareholder Meeting:

"My name is Howard Cromer. I live in Cypress, I'm a Disney shareholder. I'm actually delivering a message from my son, 10. He wants to know in recent years, in the midst of all your re-releases of your videos, why you haven't released Song of the South on your Disney Classics? ..."

Iger: "... We've discussed this a lot. We believe it's actually an opportunity from a financial perspective to put Song of the South out. I screened it fairly recently because I hadn't seen it since I was a child, and I have to tell you after I watched it, even considering the context that it was made, I had some concerns about it because of what it depicted. And though it's quite possible that people wouldn't consider it in the context that it was made, and there were some... [long pause] depictions that I mentioned earlier in the film that I think would be bothersome to a lot of people. And so, owing to the sensitivity that exists in our culture, balancing it with the desire to, uh, maybe increase our earnings a bit, but never putting that in front of what we thought were our ethics and our integrity, we made the decision not to re-release it. Not a decision that is made forever, I imagine this is going to continue to come up, but for now we simply don't have plans to bring it back because of the sensitivities that I mentioned. Sorry."

-------------------------------------------------------

I don't have any problem with Iger. Also, if you actually want a copy, they are easy to get.

Going off topic, but I am always amused when people bitch about having to be PC and how they aren't allowed to use expressions because they insult or annoy people. Why, when there are other phrases you can use, do you want to use one which is hurtful? What kind of prick does that?

As for the phrase tar baby, I've never even heard of it.

Actually-No-Copies are not easy to get. I got a copy,with Korean subtitles. Thats where I got it. It wasnt easy to get by a long shot.

I'm not making any statement about PC,etc...just that for some reason, A copy of this video,new or used, isnt easy to obtain.

Getting a copy is certainly not to own a piece of history that might denegrate a certain ethnicity. I dont own a "lawn jockey" or have any need or desire to.
I had the Brer Rabbit books as a kid and took my kids on Splash Mountain at Disney. You tell them the story,tell them about the film and then think it would be cool to get a copy as a surprise.

The surprise is the difficulty of obtaining it.

For years, I've always labeled an unpleasant and difficult position or project as a tar baby (http://xroads.virginia.edu/~ug97/remus/tar-baby.html). Never thought that it might be a racial slur. Of course, I never thought the word "niggardly" could be thought of as a slur, either, but there it is (http://www.cnn.com/US/9901/27/word.flap/)... Anyhow, it seems like John McCain (http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2007/3/16/220534.shtml?s=ic) and I are in the same boat over the use of "tar baby". Not quite, I'm not a nationally known contender for office, so my use of the phrase is a little less obvious. But he's getting slammed for using the phrase properly and I'm worried about becoming the object of an Equal Opportunity complaint. Where does all this crap end? Next thing you know, asking to be thrown in the briar patch (http://xroads.virginia.edu/~ug97/remus/toosharp.html) will be off-limits, as well.

So when did "tar baby" become a slur? Or is this just the case of another professional victim looking for a way to be offended.

Feh. Tar baby idiots just want to be offended. Niggardly isn't a slur, but you should be careful about using it in public. Use stingy or cheap.

Going off topic, but I am always amused when people bitch about having to be PC and how they aren't allowed to use expressions because they insult or annoy people. Why, when there are other phrases you can use, do you want to use one which is hurtful? What kind of prick does that?

As for the phrase tar baby, I've never even heard of it.

This is exactly the topic. Why should a few, or in the case of 'niggardly', one 'offended' ignorant person, put any of my vocabulary off limits. Context is clear. If I call the XYZ program a tar baby, I'm not calling it a black, a negro, a slave, or any other name that could be considered a racial epithet. Only that it is difficult to extract one's self from it.

Read the stories, they're cute. And they have morals. Darn, maybe that's it! The offended person wasn't offended because of any racial slur, it was because he didn't want to have morality brought up in a political context. We know that the morality and politics can never mix...

Actually-No-Copies are not easy to get. I got a copy,with Korean subtitles. Thats where I got it. It wasnt easy to get by a long shot.

I'm not making any statement about PC,etc...just that for some reason, A copy of this video,new or used, isnt easy to obtain.

Getting a copy is certainly not to own a piece of history that might denegrate a certain ethnicity. I dont own a "lawn jockey" or have any need or desire to.
I had the Brer Rabbit books as a kid and took my kids on Splash Mountain at Disney. You tell them the story,tell them about the film and then think it would be cool to get a copy as a surprise.

The surprise is the difficulty of obtaining it.

http://dvd.search.ebay.com/Song-of-the-South_DVDs-Movies_W0QQcatrefZC12QQflocZ1QQfromZR40QQsacatZ11232QQsaslcZ2

This is exactly the topic. Why should a few, or in the case of 'niggardly', one 'offended' ignorant person, put any of my vocabulary off limits. Context is clear. If I call the XYZ program a tar baby, I'm not calling it a black, a negro, a slave, or any other name that could be considered a racial epithet. Only that it is difficult to extract one's self from it.

Read the stories, they're cute. And they have morals. Darn, maybe that's it! The offended person wasn't offended because of any racial slur, it was because he didn't want to have morality brought up in a political context. We know that the morality and politics can never mix...

If I remember correctly,Uncle Remus turned out to be honest,caring and a hero. I'm not going as far to say he was a role model, but his character was portrayed a very decent individual.
He was actually not as suspicious or assumtive as the children's parents.

Since "tar baby" is another way to say "sticky situation," perhaps "sticky situation" is a racial slur as well.

This is exactly the topic. Why should a few, or in the case of 'niggardly', one 'offended' ignorant person, put any of my vocabulary off limits. Context is clear. If I call the XYZ program a tar baby, I'm not calling it a black, a negro, a slave, or any other name that could be considered a racial epithet. Only that it is difficult to extract one's self from it.

Read the stories, they're cute. And they have morals. Darn, maybe that's it! The offended person wasn't offended because of any racial slur, it was because he didn't want to have morality brought up in a political context. We know that the morality and politics can never mix...
More likely it's a misunderstanding of the root of the term. Can we please get away from the myth that anyone who isn't a conservative doesn't want to talk about moral issues?

More likely it's a misunderstanding of the root of the term. Can we please get away from the myth that anyone who isn't a conservative doesn't want to talk about moral issues?
That was all tongue-in-cheek. But you have to admit, being called judgmental isn't a compliment.

Actually-No-Copies are not easy to get. I got a copy,with Korean subtitles. Thats where I got it. It wasnt easy to get by a long shot.

I'm not making any statement about PC,etc...just that for some reason, A copy of this video,new or used, isnt easy to obtain.

Getting a copy is certainly not to own a piece of history that might denegrate a certain ethnicity. I dont own a "lawn jockey" or have any need or desire to.
I had the Brer Rabbit books as a kid and took my kids on Splash Mountain at Disney. You tell them the story,tell them about the film and then think it would be cool to get a copy as a surprise.

The surprise is the difficulty of obtaining it.

what's the deal with Lawn Jockeys? lots of people have them here...

what's the deal with Lawn Jockeys? lots of people have them here...

A black lawn jockey-there is often a controversy when attention is brought to someone's lawn jockey-like if its stolen.
Maybe more-so in the northeast? I dont know.

Some people argue they are racist symbols of bigotry,others agrue they arent.

I never needed one- I'm Italian, so I have pink flamingos and a marble fountain in my front yard.

since mccain is never going to be president, maybe he can do this one thing for us and get people to understand that using references to southern negro folk tales is not racist. they are wonderful stories that combine african roots with american realities. its a shame to lose them to some stupid notion that they demean the descendants of those who created them.

Since "tar baby" is another way to say "sticky situation," perhaps "sticky situation" is a racial slur as well.

I guess if it were a more well-known story, people might not choose to be offended by it.

I suspect many dont know the story,though. Either way, you couldnt argue its a widely used term.

I also suspect that as many people have used it innocently as have used it in a derogatory fashion.

I dont think Mr.McCain is a bigot,racist or intended to offend anyone. He really ought to consider using more current terms to describe his feelings and carefully weigh everything he says first.
There is no room for ad-libbing whatsoever these days,especially when you're a public figure. he has to weigh what he says even when he thinks his conversations is private.
God forbid he says "shit" or "asshole" ever.

This is exactly the topic. Why should a few, or in the case of 'niggardly', one 'offended' ignorant person, put any of my vocabulary off limits. Context is clear. If I call the XYZ program a tar baby, I'm not calling it a black, a negro, a slave, or any other name that could be considered a racial epithet. Only that it is difficult to extract one's self from it.

Read the stories, they're cute. And they have morals. Darn, maybe that's it! The offended person wasn't offended because of any racial slur, it was because he didn't want to have morality brought up in a political context. We know that the morality and politics can never mix...

You can't bring morality up around politicians, it makes a hostile work environment for them.

there are two types here, the black ones and the white ones, I never really heard anything bad about either, but the black ones remind me of the Mammy cookie jars, and I have heard some of my friends claim that those are racist.

How dare you even say "Mammy" !!! :p

A black lawn jockey-there is often a controversy when attention is brought to someone's lawn jockey-like if its stolen.
Maybe more-so in the northeast? I dont know.

Some people argue they are racist symbols of bigotry,others agrue they arent.

I never needed one- I'm Italian, so I have pink flamingos and a marble fountain in my front yard.

there are two types here, the black ones and the white ones, I never really heard anything bad about either, but the black ones remind me of the Mammy cookie jars, and I have heard some of my friends claim that those are racist.

They echo back to the days of slavery and of when African-Americans had few options outside of household service. I can see why some people would feel like having something like that in your front yard would be a way of reminding blacks of their "place." I'd certainly never have something like that.
I'm thinking about hiring a guy in a sombrero and a poncho to sit outside my house. Actually, I'm not sure why those little statues -- gnomes, too, are so popular in certain places.

there are two types here, the black ones and the white ones, I never really heard anything bad about either, but the black ones remind me of the Mammy cookie jars, and I have heard some of my friends claim that those are racist.

They echo back to the days of slavery and of when African-Americans had few options outside of household service. I can see why some people would feel like having something like that in your front yard would be a way of reminding blacks of their "place." I'd certainly never have something like that.

How dare you even say "Mammy" !!! :p
:eek: :(

I'm thinking about hiring a guy in a sombrero and a poncho to sit outside my house. Actually, I'm not sure why those little statues -- gnomes, too, are so popular in certain places.
it's a cultural thing I think.

They echo back to the days of slavery and of when African-Americans had few options outside of household service. I can see why some people would feel like having something like that in your front yard would be a way of reminding blacks of their "place." I'd certainly never have something like that.
really? who comes up with this stuff? I am sure you would begrudge me my antique cookie jar as well?

I'm thinking about hiring a guy in a sombrero and a poncho to sit outside my house. Actually, I'm not sure why those little statues -- gnomes, too, are so popular in certain places.

We had a summer home and had a concrete guy in a sombrero leading a concrete donkey. The previous owners had left it behind.

I still have no idea what it signified. I dont understand who saw it somewhere and felt they had to have it. And repaint it several times over the years.
I'm sure it offends someone.

I'm more offended by the signs depiciting a fat woman's ass bending over on the front yard. What the hell does it mean? Its not nice to look at and if its supposed to be amusing,I dont get it.
"Chipmunk crossing" annoys me too.

As do the sillouhettes of men leaning on trees and sides of houses. Especially if they have a bandana added.

They echo back to the days of slavery and of when African-Americans had few options outside of household service. I can see why some people would feel like having something like that in your front yard would be a way of reminding blacks of their "place." I'd certainly never have something like that.

Over the course of the 80s and 90s, I saw a lot of them disappear from the South (Tennessee, Kentucky, North Carolina, South Carolina, Georgia, in particular). It seems that they weren't selling well.

I still see quite a few in New England states (New Hampshire is where I've seen quite a few).

Apparently, only the South has to be embarassed about the historical treatment of blacks - every other state can continue with derogatory statues as usual.

They echo back to the days of slavery and of when African-Americans had few options outside of household service. I can see why some people would feel like having something like that in your front yard would be a way of reminding blacks of their "place." I'd certainly never have something like that.

I'm not black,so I cant accurately say if this would offend me or amuse me:

http://www.lawnjockey.com/jocko.html


If I had one though,and became aware that people were offended by it, I would certainly consider getting rid of it or putting it in the back yard.

I wouldnt want it to change from an innocent lawn decoration to a percieved symbol screaming I'm a bigot and proud to display it.

I'm not black,so I cant accurately say if this would offend me or amuse me:

http://www.lawnjockey.com/jocko.html


If I had one though,and became aware that people were offended by it, I would certainly consider getting rid of it or putting it in the back yard.

I wouldnt want it to change from an innocent lawn decoration to a percieved symbol screaming I'm a bigot and proud to display it.

Yeah, for me it's a question of whether my desire to decorate my lawn as I wish is more important than unnecessarily offending people. If it were something more important to me--let's say I had a rainbow flag out front to show unity with my gay friends and some local gay-haters were offended--then I'd probably leave it up.

Here is what Wikipedia has to say on the
matter:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lawn_jockey


I personally dont need a lawn jockey badly enough to argue it one way or another.

I'm happy with my American flag and bear carved with a chainsaw.


I hope I dont offend the bears here.

Over the course of the 80s and 90s, I saw a lot of them disappear from the South (Tennessee, Kentucky, North Carolina, South Carolina, Georgia, in particular). It seems that they weren't selling well.

I still see quite a few in New England states (New Hampshire is where I've seen quite a few).

Apparently, only the South has to be embarassed about the historical treatment of blacks - every other state can continue with derogatory statues as usual.

Well, the South was the only place where slavery was legal. Of course, what is usually taught is that the North loved black people, and weren't very racist at all(At least, that's the overall impression of many history lessons taught in early high school, and such). Often times, they rarely go into the various economic reasons as to why slavery wasn't allowed in the North, that racism was quite strong up that way as well, and that some of more progressive early politicians were actually from the South(Jefferson whom did advocate that slavery should end, however knew very well that it wouldn't happen in his lifetime, and a handful of others). Not saying the South wasn't full of racists, but the North was hardly a great deal better at the time(Only the most radical thought black people were their equals-most in the North didn't necessarily like the idea of slavery, but you would be hard-pressed to find those whom thought they were equals). You find racism everywhere, to varying degrees. Minnesota, for example, was set up as a remarkably xenophobic state, with the original State Constitution forbidding black people to reside within it permanently(Scandinavians didn't want to be around black people-most of the early settlers had never even seen a black person).

So really, the only reason why the South gets a hard time is Slavery, however most of the Northern states were quite racist.

Of course, I have a great deal of contempt at how people portray history in many other senses, from the Revolutionary War straight on through to World War II and beyond. The victors write the history, I suppose, and can portray themselves however they wish.

I'm more offended by the signs depiciting a fat woman's ass bending over on the front yard. What the hell does it mean?
I hate those as well.
http://www.fantasylawnornaments.com/1lg3FancyLadyBum_small.jpg


oh, and the little wooden girl hiding her eyes ......what's the point of that?

EDIT: I found the point of the girl......she is missing her friends http://www.fantasylawnornaments.com/1lg6BoysPantsDown.jpg

Well, the South was the only place where slavery was legal. Of course, what is usually taught is that the North loved black people, and weren't very racist at all(At least, that's the overall impression of many history lessons taught in early high school, and such). Often times, they rarely go into the various economic reasons as to why slavery wasn't allowed in the North, that racism was quite strong up that way as well, and that some of more progressive early politicians were actually from the South(Jefferson whom did advocate that slavery should end, however knew very well that it wouldn't happen in his lifetime, and a handful of others). Not saying the South wasn't full of racists, but the North was hardly a great deal better at the time(Only the most radical thought black people were their equals-most in the North didn't necessarily like the idea of slavery, but you would be hard-pressed to find those whom thought they were equals). You find racism everywhere, to varying degrees. Minnesota, for example, was set up as a remarkably xenophobic state, with the original State Constitution forbidding black people to reside within it permanently(Scandinavians didn't want to be around black people-most of the early settlers had never even seen a black person).

So really, the only reason why the South gets a hard time is Slavery, however most of the Northern states were quite racist.

Of course, I have a great deal of contempt at how people portray history in many other senses, from the Revolutionary War straight on through to World War II and beyond. The victors write the history, I suppose, and can portray themselves however they wish.
Check your history, son.

I hate those as well.
http://www.fantasylawnornaments.com/1lg3FancyLadyBum_small.jpg


oh, and the little wooden girl hiding her eyes ......what's the point of that?

EDIT: I found the point of the girl......she is missing her friends http://www.fantasylawnornaments.com/1lg6BoysPantsDown.jpg

very,very annoying... Someone with a jigsaw and some paint is making money on the side selling this crap to people.

I dont have any funds in the "annoying lawn display" budget.

I dislike the gnomes too.

very,very annoying... Someone with a jigsaw and some paint is making money on the side selling this crap to people.

I dont have any funds in the "annoying lawn display" budget.

I have a purple pinwheel in my front yard, and some chairs, and one of those tables with the umbrella.......yeah, we are rednecks. :p

I have a purple pinwheel in my front yard, and some chairs, and one of those tables with the umbrella.......yeah, we are rednecks. :p


I thought a real redneck had a car or truck on blocks with weeds growing through it?

I'm in PA,Smunkee and a short drive away shows me a lot of "redneck" features.
I personally dont have much problem with them. I'm not an elitist snob and get along with whomever I'm with.

Check your history, son.

Should have said "pretty much", and in "In the US". Of course slavery was legal in many other places not including the US, however I was speaking of the United State, and most of the Northern States abolished the practice quite quickly.

I tend to make a couple of unintentional mistakes from time to time.

I thought a real redneck had a car or truck on blocks with weeds growing through it?

I'm in PA,Smunkee and a short drive away shows me a lot of "redneck" features.
I personally dont have much problem with them. I'm not an elitist snob and get along with whomever I'm with.

oh, no that's the white trash, they are slightly different from rednecks, rednecks have gaudy things, white trash have trashy things. My pinwheel is ostentatious.
http://shop.com.edgesuite.net/ccimg.shop.com/220000/225600/225654/products/27381466.jpg
except mine is purple and white.

oh, no that's the white trash, they are slightly different from rednecks, rednecks have gaudy things, white trash have trashy things. My pinwheel is ostentatious.
http://shop.com.edgesuite.net/ccimg.shop.com/220000/225600/225654/products/27381466.jpg
except mine is purple and white.

I see.

I dont have one of those, but I do have a buoy bell just like this:

http://seagifts.com/seagonbuoybe.html



Even though I dont live on the ocean anymore, I couldnt get rid of this and it still reminds me of being at the water.

There are some things that are very accurately called tar babies. I hate the fact that I'm having a great euphemism taken away for absolutely no good reason, except that some ignorant -- got to be a Yankee, 'cause we all know the story, has decided to be offended.

Niggardly?

Niggardly?
Yeah, it's a synonym of stingy, and has no relation whatsoever to the pejorative term.

Yeah, it's a synonym of stingy, and has no relation whatsoever to the pejorative term.

First I've heard of it. I can't imagine any latin roots in such a word, so my natural assumption would be a slang relation to the slur.

Anyone know the latin roots to 'niggardly'?

Yeah, it's a synonym of stingy, and has no relation whatsoever to the pejorative term.

Now, run for major public office, and use the term in a speech about spending on urban renewal and see how far you get.

I'm sure that the number of ignorant people will outnumber those who are familiar with the word, and destroy your political career in a day or two.

First I've heard of it. I can't imagine any latin roots in such a word, so my natural assumption would be a slang relation to the slur.

Anyone know the latin roots to 'niggardly'?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Niggardly

Now, run for major public office, and use the term in a speech about spending on urban renewal and see how far you get.

I'm sure that the number of ignorant people will outnumber those who are familiar with the word, and destroy your political career in a day or two.

You'll get no argument from me on this point--I've seen the hue and cry over the use in the past, and it's unquestionably stupid.

You'll get no argument from me on this point--I've seen the hue and cry over the use in the past, and it's unquestionably stupid.

Unless one were to use it in a way hinting at a racial bias, delighting in the fact that he can repeatedly say something that sounds like a slur without being called on it. You get such a circumstance in video game servers, for example, that punish the use of the word "fag" while realizing it's a nonpejorative in the context of cigarette.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Niggardly

Thanks Smunk. *hug*

You'll get no argument from me on this point--I've seen the hue and cry over the use in the past, and it's unquestionably stupid.

while it is stupid to make a fuss about a nonderogatory word i do sometimes question why someone might use a word that is so easily misunderstood around people who might be inclined to take it the wrong way. it seems to me that its likely that the guy is a smart ass who has one of 2 motives, to use a word that will offend listeners as a way of making them look stupid or to use a word that will offend listeners because its his way of being racist without using a bad word.

"Buh oh I beee de VICTIM!, we'se all sholy bee de victim dis racisss sen'toh"


McCain isnt worth the air he breathes, but an even lower form of life is throwing a fit over this 'remark.'

while it is stupid to make a fuss about a nonderogatory word i do sometimes question why someone might use a word that is so easily misunderstood around people who might be inclined to take it the wrong way. it seems to me that its likely that the guy is a smart ass who has one of 2 motives, to use a word that will offend listeners as a way of making them look stupid or to use a word that will offend listeners because its his way of being racist without using a bad word.

That's certainly the case with the word "niggardly." A person might be absolutely defensible in using the word, but would be politically inept to do so. No one has less freedom to use language than a politician in today's media.

As to the example of "tar baby," I only skimmed the Newsmax article, but I didn't notice anyone calling for McCain to apologize--it seemed more like a pre-emptive apology to me, which also shows the situation he finds himself in as a candidate. I could have just missed it, though.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Niggardly
Wow! I never thought of using it as a noun! Now there's some potential for real trouble.

while it is stupid to make a fuss about a nonderogatory word i do sometimes question why someone might use a word that is so easily misunderstood around people who might be inclined to take it the wrong way. it seems to me that its likely that the guy is a smart ass who has one of 2 motives, to use a word that will offend listeners as a way of making them look stupid or to use a word that will offend listeners because its his way of being racist without using a bad word.
If it was just an off-the-cuff remark, then I can't see anything sinister in it. There's a commonly disliked program, here, and it's commonly referred to as a tar baby because of the way one seems to get stuck to it. Now the word is in the common vocabulary of a half dozen of us, so it's bound to find a proper use in other situations as well.

If it was just an off-the-cuff remark, then I can't see anything sinister in it. There's a commonly disliked program, here, and it's commonly referred to as a tar baby because of the way one seems to get stuck to it. Now the word is in the common vocabulary of a half dozen of us, so it's bound to find a proper use in other situations as well.

i seem to have made my post ambiguous. i was only referring to the use of the word niggardly. while i really like the word myself, it seems to me that to put it into a formal talk of any kind needs to be done sensitively even though its a great word.

as to tar baby, i agree with you. its the perfect phrase for sticky situations. i would very much like to see it rehabilitated so that we could use it for things like social security reform instead of "3rd rail".

I used tar baby on this forum a couple months ago and was told it was a racial slur. Up until that time I had no clue that it was a racial slur. I thought it was about a rabbit that thought he was smarter than anyone else until a baby made of tar was set up along the road and he hit it, the more he struggled the deeper into the tar he went. Sort of like a smart a-- president that goes to war just because he can, then the more he struggles the dirtier he gets.

I used tar baby on this forum a couple months ago and was told it was a racial slur. Up until that time I had no clue that it was a racial slur. I thought it was about a rabbit that thought he was smarter than anyone else until a baby made of tar was set up along the road and he hit it, the more he struggled the deeper into the tar he went.

I have never heard 'tar baby' in my life until I saw this thread. And to be honest, if I heard someone say it in the context that I see people using it without knowing its origins and I clearly don't/didn't, it naturally sounds racial to me. And I don't think it is going too far to say that others would as well. Does this mean that you shouldn't use a word or phrase because people might infer racial undertones from it, even if its origins are innocent? I guess that is for each man to decide. Personally, I'd prefer not to risk upsetting people, rightfully or wrongfully, especially if running for office.

There's also the Little Golden Book story, "Little Black Sambo". The story where the kid outsmarts a tiger...Nothing racially motivated there, just a nice children's story.

My first dog was called Sambo. It was a black cocker spaniel. We read the book a million times.

I am so glad that I am not PC. My life is so much easier than the PC man trying to keep on top of his PC speech. I opted out a long time ago. I will never forget when my PC law professor circled all the non PC words in a paper I wrote. I made an appointment to see her after class and told her that she need not bother with that in the future because I am not PC and PC rules do not apply to me. I was one of the only people that got a high grade in her class.