NationStates Jolt Archive

Try to bear with me here, this is going to get a little weird. In the game Splinter Cell: Chaos Theory Sam Fisher(the protagonist) makes a reference to something that happened in roman history while interrogating a hostage. Basically he says "It wasn't the barbarians who sacked Rome, it was the Roman ex patriots who mustered the barbarian armies". What is he referring to?

Maybe that some of the barbarians were enlisted in the Roman Legions, or that the barbarians helped defeat the Huns. Honestly it sounds like crap though.

Try to bear with me here, this is going to get a little weird. In the game Splinter Cell: Chaos Theory Sam Fisher(the protagonist) makes a reference to something that happened in roman history while interrogating a hostage. Basically he says "It wasn't the barbarians who sacked Rome, it was the Roman ex patriots who mustered the barbarian armies". What is he referring to?

Well, Rome was sacked by Germanic barbarians, and the barbarians were helped by the Germanic mercenaries who served in the Roman military.

It does sound like crap, however.

Presumably he's referring to the barracks emperors of the 3rd century that badly destabilized the empire and put it on the path to total collapse; it's not literally them sacking Rome, but given that their actions were a major part of what allowed that to happen it is valid to say that they were the ones who effectively destroyed the Empire.

"I'm Spartacus!"

No, I'm Spartacus!

No, I'm Crassus!

OH SHIT TIME PARADOX

"I'm Spartacus!"

No, I'm Spartacus!

No, I'm Crassus!

Talk about picking a winner :p

No, I'm Augustus!

Its crap. What he's probably referring to is a battle that occurred in some forest (blanking on the name) where a Roman legion defected and, with the Germanic barbarians, slaughtered the invading Roman army.

Teutonberg or something like that.

All in favor of saying Fisher was full of it, say aye.

aye.

Huh? I understand the time paradox reference, but I'm drawing a blank on Crassus.

Crassus was the Roman general who ended up defeating Spartacus' rebellion.

Its crap. What he's probably referring to is a battle that occurred in some forest (blanking on the name) where a Roman legion defected and, with the Germanic barbarians, slaughtered the invading Roman army.

No, I'm Crassus!

OH SHIT TIME PARADOX

Huh? I understand the time paradox reference, but I'm drawing a blank on Crassus.

Huh? I understand the time paradox reference, but I'm drawing a blank on Crassus.

He was also beheaded at the hands of the Persians not to much later, and let's not forget his "Firefighters."

Crassus was the Roman general who ended up defeating Spartacus' rebellion.

Oh, right, of course.

Siap: Of course it's crap. This is Splinter Cell we're talking about here, not Metal Gear Solid.

No, I'm Spartacus!

I am Spartacus!

Huh? I understand the time paradox reference, but I'm drawing a blank on Crassus.

He was a Roman general who pwned Spartacus's slave rebellion. He was also part of the first Roman Triumvirate along with Pompey and Julius Caesar.

Siap: Of course it's crap. This is Splinter Cell we're talking about here, not Metal Gear Solid.

Interestingly enough, in regards to the MUF claim made in Solid, the DRC is allegedly missing 100 bars of uranium.

http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/4AB66EBF-5ED4-4639-8F34-691B7E9D3B8D.htm?FRAMELESS=true&NRNODEGUID=%7b4AB66EBF-5ED4-4639-8F34-691B7E9D3B8D%7d

Somehow, I don't see giant walking tanks in the future, though

There tends to be a basic rule when it comes to inventions:

Someone, somewhere is working on this. They might only have a lab in their basement and $1,000 wired from their brother, but they are working on it.

Interestingly enough, in regards to the MUF claim made in Solid, the DRC is allegedly missing 100 bars of uranium.

http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/4AB66EBF-5ED4-4639-8F34-691B7E9D3B8D.htm?FRAMELESS=true&NRNODEGUID=%7b4AB66EBF-5ED4-4639-8F34-691B7E9D3B8D%7d

...hmm...yet another game shows something of itself in the real world...

Oh, right, of course.

Siap: Of course it's crap. This is Splinter Cell we're talking about here, not Metal Gear Solid.

Don't be dissin' MGS, yo.

I am Testikules! :D

...hmm...yet another game shows something of itself in the real world...

Somehow, I don't see giant walking tanks in the future, though

I am Testikules! :D

Quoted for ROFL. :D

Don't be dissin' MGS, yo.

...I was calling Splinter Cell crap, not Metal Gear Solid.

Siap: Well that's true. It's more a case of a plot element showing itself. Chrono Trigger showed one. Lemme see if I can dig it up...

Ah, here it is:
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2003604956_crust07.html

Thought admittedly there it's more of a stretch.

I´M ALEXANDER THE GREAT!

No, I´m not gay :(

Try to bear with me here, this is going to get a little weird. In the game Splinter Cell: Chaos Theory Sam Fisher(the protagonist) makes a reference to something that happened in roman history while interrogating a hostage. Basically he says "It wasn't the barbarians who sacked Rome, it was the Roman ex patriots who mustered the barbarian armies". What is he referring to?

It all depends on *which* sacking of Rome we are talking about.

Also, given the Roman reliance on using barbarians to fight its battles for it in the later stages of empire, the barbarian leaders who led the pillaging army did at one time work for Rome.

The two that spring to mind are the Visigoths and the Vandals. Both of which were one-time refugees who begged for admittance to Roman territory, became mercenaries for Rome, and then got pissed off at their poor treatment and eventually sacked it.

The Visigoths were especially relied upon as soldiers to fill the ranks and ended up being the frontline fodder. Romans treated them like disposable troops to be sent in before Romans risked their necks. Visigoth officers were treated like shit, despite their great abilities. A combination of a food shortage leaving the Visigoths hungry, their best commanders being passed over for promotion, and a general lack of support or reward for service from Rome led to outright rebellion. They were bought off for a while, but continued poor treatment and political instability (lots of assassinations and power struggles in Rome and Constantinople) plus the massacring of thousands of women and children (when you want to make an example of people so they don’t get uppity, try not to choose the families of your soldiers) led to a call to arms and the sacking of Rome. In the end it was a Visigoth leader who made his name commanding troops for the empire who killed the Emperor and then later sacked Rome.

When you get to what set the Vandals in play the story is a little more directly the ambitions of the Vandal leaders, but little pieces of palace intrigue with various plots for power in Rome lead to this sacking as well.

Fighting for political power, one conniving guy told the empress some guy was on the verge of rebellion – as proof just ask him to come pay you a visit. If he shows up, all is good. If he refuses to show his face in Rome it is proof of his intentions. Then he sent another letter to the supposed rebel (who was actually quite loyal but with political differences with the empress) warning him that the empress wanted to kill him so if he gets a vague invitation it is a trap. This actually created the rebellion out of nothing and set events in motion leading to the sacking of Rome by the Vandals. I can’t recall much of the details for this piece of it though.

Eventually the use of the Vandals as soldiers led them to taking territory and gaining more experience as soldiers. They were eventually granted some territory in northern Africa, but decided that deal wasn’t good enough and expanded towards Carthage and its riches. Eventually taking it as the new Vandal capital (and controlling the grain production which the Empire was very reliant upon to feed its people) he used it as a base to pillage the entire Mediterranean (barbarian hordes who learn seamanship and take to piracy based in a large wealthy are and thus have serious backing were a major threat). The Byzantines were too preoccupied with the Huns to deal with the Vandal problem.

There is a little rumor that the empress asked the Vandal leader to come rescue her from her forced marriage to the emperor (who killed her husband to take the throne).

When the Huns were no longer invading to the east, Constantinople could then turn its attention to the Vandals. History lesson number 3,572: don’t put an idiot in charge of the most expensive invasion force in history that practically bankrupted the empire to build.

Anyway… the point being that it depends on your point of view – but the Visigoth sacking of Rome could be directly laid at the stupidity of the Romans. Had they shown the Visigoths a little more respect and treated them a little better, and afforded the best Visigoth commanders the promotions they were entitled to, they would have continued fighting for Rome instead of sacking it.

Try to bear with me here, this is going to get a little weird. In the game Splinter Cell: Chaos Theory Sam Fisher(the protagonist) makes a reference to something that happened in roman history while interrogating a hostage. Basically he says "It wasn't the barbarians who sacked Rome, it was the Roman ex patriots who mustered the barbarian armies". What is he referring to?

Well, there were several barbarian invasions of Rome, but I only know about a couple of them. The closest I can get is the story of the Vandals who invaded in the 5th century. They were a Baltic race who were pushed to the Roman frontier, probably by Hun aggression, and crossed over a frozen river in a deadly cold storm. They took several years heading south to Spain, doing a bit of the pilaging a plundering along the way, but mostly just annoying. When they reached Gibraltar, they kind of faltered and settled there. In the mean time, political intrigue in Rome erupted. The emperor was a small boy, and his effectively ruling mother, Galla Placidia, was quite fearful. A general, Aetius, wanted power and convinced her that the governor (Boniface) of North Africa (the Roman breadbasket at the time) was seeking to overthrow her son and become emperor himself. Meanwhile, Boniface thought he was going to be assassinated by the emperor's mother. When Placidia sent a request that he come to Rome, he refused, and she took it as proof of his treachery. To protect himself, Boniface invited the Vandals to North Africa, but rescinded the offer at the last minute because he found out about Aetius' scheme.

Well, the Vandals did not take kindly to their disinvitation and came anyway. Eventually, they took Carthage and established a Vandal kingdom in North Africa. Religious tension (as Arians, the Vandals persecuted Catholics) resulted in the sacking of Rome in 455.

I am Spartacus!

This Is SPARTA!

I'll leave now.

I believe maybe he was referring to the late history of the Roman Empire when 'barbarian' native people were allowed to settle on Roman land, and become part of the Legions without compromising their culture etc in the least. It's believed by many historians that by doing this Rome contributed to it's own downfall because Rome failed to integrate these people and thus give them the efficient military tactics and the like which ensured Rome's rise. Towards the end Rome's foreign frontiers were guarded mostly by foreign mercenaries than by Romans.

Oh sure, go for the easy answer.:rolleyes:

Its crap. What he's probably referring to is a battle that occurred in some forest (blanking on the name) where a Roman legion defected and, with the Germanic barbarians, slaughtered the invading Roman army.

Quinctilius Varus...Teutenburg indeed.

Quinctilius Varus...Teutenburg indeed.

Change your name to Rhine Crossings and the thread will be complete :D

I also nominate Varus as one of the worst military commanders in history.

Quinctilius Varus...Teutenburg indeed.Augustus," Varus, Varus give me my legions back you bloody drunken barbarian porking son of a slave.":)

Change your name to Rhine Crossings and the thread will be complete :D

I also nominate Varus as one of the worst military commanders in history.

I wold never have made the mistakes Quinctilius made...

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