NationStates Jolt Archive

Japanese reenact the Yugoslav Wars [much to the surprise of internet users in the Balkans]
March 16th, 2007 by JamesJames

Look, it’s the Serbian military! Oh wait, never mind, it’s just some Japanese guys dressed up like Serbs. The above picture, together with another picture of Japanese dressed up like Croats, have shocked Serbian/Croatian netizens, many of whom don’t seem to like the idea of some Japanese guys making a game out of the recent war in which so many of their countrymen fought and died. Belgrade 2.0 has posted a story on the photos, asking the following questions:

What is the actual time needed for a war to become history? A decade, couple of years, one hundred years? What is the distance (time, cultural or geographical) needed so that we can “play war” without engaging too deeply into the actual context: who attacked first, were there any war crimes, how many people got killed, what happened after the war, etc.

Such questions don’t seem to be an issue to the military hobbyists engaging in the reenactment of the Yugoslav War, such as this Japanese blogger, who writes about his experiences in a Bosnian battle “Survival Game”. According to the blogger, who has posted quite a few pictures from the event, there were UN, Croatian, and Serbian forces fighting in the battle, which took place at a site called “Area 51″ in Chiba Prefecture. Unlike the real Balkan War, much of the fighting revolved around each team’s flag, and there was plenty of time for participants to relax and take pictures.

I’m really not sure why a group of Japanese men would want to spend so much time and money reenacting their favorite Balkan battles, but I’m guessing it has something to do with the mystical power of obsessive otakudom…

http://www.japanprobe.com/?p=1367

(Not sure if that link will stay the same...)

What do you guys think of this - bad idea, tasteless idea, or simply good fun?

I think it's a bad idea.
A war becomes history once the last person who lost relatives or friends in it has died. Before that, it's what the Germans call "Zeitgeschichte", current history.
That's why WWII isn't really history yet, either.

And considering the circumstances and numbers of deads in the genocide during the Balkan wars, I would assume that many people will be shocked and hurt by this.

That's...odd.

I think it sounds like good clean fun

…course what they really need is a barbeque, lots of alcohol and women dressed as shameless peasants :)

That's why WWII isn't really history yet, either.

but that’s re-enacted all the time :confused:

I think it's a bad idea.
A war becomes history once the last person who lost relatives or friends in it has died. Before that, it's what the Germans call "Zeitgeschichte", current history.
That's why WWII isn't really history yet, either.

And considering the circumstances and numbers of deads in the genocide during the Balkan wars, I would assume that many people will be shocked and hurt by this.I agree with what you're saying but your definition isn't really going to hold up considering some of the last (the last?) widows of soldiers in the American Civil War just died during the last couple of years or so...

but that’s re-enacted all the time :confused:Eep! It is? Where? The US? Or Europe, too? (I'm not being snippy, I really have no idea about war re-enactments except that I know that they're doing it in the US with the Revolutionary War, Civil War, and WWI.

errrr... weird... weee-ird!

Eep! It is? Where? The US? Or Europe, too? (I'm not being snippy, I really have no idea about war re-enactments except that I know that they're doing it in the US with the Revolutionary War, Civil War, and WWI.

I can't imagine anyone in Europe doing that...

Well, on second thought, some Brits actually might.

I think it's a bad idea.
A war becomes history once the last person who lost relatives or friends in it has died. Before that, it's what the Germans call "Zeitgeschichte", current history.
That's why WWII isn't really history yet, either.

And considering the circumstances and numbers of deads in the genocide during the Balkan wars, I would assume that many people will be shocked and hurt by this.

In general, I'd agree. OTOH, I know the Japanese mentality pretty well, and in context I'd say they're silly and harmless, in the sense that they mean no harm. (I once had a Japanese aquantance who showed up at a bar where I knew a bunch of Israelis hung out, wearing a Waffen SS t-shirt. He just simply had no clue as to the cultural background.)

That's...odd.

Indeed.

Eep! It is? Where? The US? Or Europe, too? (I'm not being snippy, I really have no idea about war re-enactments except that I know that they're doing it in the US with the Revolutionary War, Civil War, and WWI.

In England they usually have re-enactments that follow through time (so we have Romans marching about then later Saxons go and do Saxon things) course all the battle re-enactments have no historical basis and always have Britain winning

Oh the joy of the castle owning aristocracy :p

In general, I'd agree. OTOH, I know the Japanese mentality pretty well, and in context I'd say they're silly and harmless, in the sense that they mean no harm. (I once had a Japanese aquantance who showed up at a bar where I knew a bunch of Israelis hung out, wearing a Waffen SS t-shirt. He just simply had no clue as to the cultural background.)


Oh my. That must have gone down like a lead balloon!

I agree with what you're saying but your definition isn't really going to hold up considering some of the last (the last?) widows of soldiers in the American Civil War just died during the last couple of years or so...

:eek: That ended in 1865. The oldest man alive was born in 1891. How old was that widow??? And how old was she when she got married???

but that’s re-enacted all the time :confused:

1) Not enough that I'd call it "all the time".
2)

A war becomes history once the last person who lost relatives or friends in it has died.
I agree with what you're saying but your definition isn't really going to hold up considering some of the last (the last?) widows of soldiers in the American Civil War just died during the last couple of years or so...

But those were women who'd married vets well after the war. They didn't have immediate relatives or friends who died in the fighting. Not unless they were 140 years old...

In England they usually have re-enactments that follow through time (so we have Romans marching about then later Saxons go and do Saxon things) course all the battle re-enactments have no historical basis and always have Britain winning

Oh the joy of the castle owning aristocracy :p:p

But those were women who'd married vets well after the war. They didn't have immediate relatives or friends who died in the fighting. Not unless they were 140 years old...You're totally right. I didn't pay attention to Cabra's "who has lost relatives or friends in it" and was only thinking along the lines of "who had relatives or friends in it". My bad.

:eek: That ended in 1865. The oldest man alive was born in 1891. How old was that widow??? And how old was she when she got married???You don't really want to know (http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0908934.html)... >.<

Oh my. That must have gone down like a lead balloon!

I got him to leave before anything major happened.

That ended in 1865. The oldest man alive was born in 1891. How old was that widow??? And how old was she when she got married???

Well, FWIW, here's the wiki for one, who's still alive...

Maudie Hopkins

Maudie Hopkins (born December 7, 1914 –) is an American who is believed to be the last surviving widow of a Civil War veteran.

Born Maudie Acklin in Lexa, Arkansas, she, at age 19, married one William M. Cantrell, aged 86, on February 2, 1934, in hopes of escaping poverty. Cantrell enlisted in the Confederate Army at age 16 in Pikeville, Kentucky, and served in General Samuel G. French's Battalion of the Virginia Infantry. He was captured in 1863, and was part of a prisoner exchange. He'd had a previous wife, who died in 1929.

Cantrell supported her with a pension of US$25 every two or three months, and she inherited his home in 1937. She received no further pension benefits after his death. She remarried later in 1937, and twice thereafter, and had three children.

It was not especially uncommon for young women in Arkansas to marry Confederate pensioners; in 1937 the state passed a law stating that women that married Civil War veterans would not be eligible for a widow's pension. The law was later changed in 1939 to state that widows born after 1870 were not eligible for pensions.

Hopkins generally kept her first marriage a secret, fearing that the resulting gossip (of marrying a much older man) would damage her reputation.

After research with records from Arkansas and United States Census Bureau data, she has been certified by various historical organizations, most notably the United Daughters of the Confederacy.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maudie_Hopkins

http://www.japanprobe.com/?p=1367

(Not sure if that link will stay the same...)

What do you guys think of this - bad idea, tasteless idea, or simply good fun?


If these Japanese blokes turned up in Former Yugoslavia and started 'wargaming', then I would say they are being extremely ignorant to local people's feelings and history, making a genocidal war where neighbours killed each other into a 'rambo game'.

In fact, they would probably unite all the mutually hating participants of the Balkans wars against them.

Personally, I would take these Japanese fellows, and take them on a tour of the mass graves where children as young as a few hours old lay, executed in cold blood because of their religion or ethnicity.

Then I would take them to see the rape victims of the war, and the countless widows and orphans of the war, so they could talk to them and learn it was not fun and games.

Undoubtedly, the Japanese men featured in the article are bored businessmen who urgently need to get a life.

Re-enactments are all well and good, it helps people remember history, and what should be avoided in the future, but this instance comes across as immature individuals making a rambo game out of a horrific chapter in recent history that shamed a world that just stood, and watched.

A war becomes history once the last person who lost relatives or friends in it has died.

Everyone's related to everyone. So, never?

Well, FWIW, here's the wiki for one, who's still alive...


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maudie_Hopkins

That doesn't ENTIRELY count.

If these Japanese blokes turned up in Former Yugoslavia and started 'wargaming', then I would say they are being extremely ignorant to local people's feelings and history, making a genocidal war where neighbours killed each other into a 'rambo game'.

In fact, they would probably unite all the mutually hating participants of the Balkans wars against them.

Personally, I would take these Japanese fellows, and take them on a tour of the mass graves where children as young as a few hours old lay, executed in cold blood because of their religion or ethnicity.

Then I would take them to see the rape victims of the war, and the countless widows and orphans of the war, so they could talk to them and learn it was not fun and games.

Undoubtedly, the Japanese men featured in the article are bored businessmen who urgently need to get a life.

Re-enactments are all well and good, it helps people remember history, and what should be avoided in the future, but this instance comes across as immature individuals making a rambo game out of a horrific chapter in recent history that shamed a world that just stood, and watched.

You forget...Japan brought us goru....a few graves are unlikely to make much difference...

wtf...

wow... talk about poor taste.