NationStates Jolt Archive

Apparently there is enough water in this one deposit on Mars to cover the planet up to 36ft deep in water. I knew there was water but did not realize that this much was still there. So should we start making plans to terra-form the planet Mars now? I think this is a great find and bodes well for the future colonization of Mars. Also should the US and Europe get there to claim the planet first?

http://www.cnn.com/2007/TECH/space/03/16/mars.water.reut/index.html

Yes, we should get there along with the Chinese and Japanese and leave this place to the people who want to live in the 10th century forever.

How about we ship the 10th century people there? Let them terra-form it and then we can go take it over. ;)

its the lost city of Atlantis :eek:

That's a lot of ice...........


I'm cold just thinking of it.

Apparently there is enough water in this one deposit on Mars to cover the planet up to 36ft deep in water. I knew there was water but did not realize that this much was still there. So should we start making plans to terra-form the planet Mars now? I think this is a great find and bodes well for the future colonization of Mars. Also should the US and Europe get there to claim the planet first?

http://www.cnn.com/2007/TECH/space/03/16/mars.water.reut/index.html

Yes, we should get there along with the Chinese and Japanese and leave this place to the people who want to live in the 10th century forever.

Any human astronaut who travels to Mars will receive a chilly reception!

And when they dust off, they'll have to do so literally.

*calculates*
That's only 283km^3. Cool, but some of the aquifers let out millions of km^3 back in the day - they need to find that. *nods*

Any human astronaut who travels to Mars will receive a chilly reception!

Ice? Meh. Lucky for them Martians there's no oil ...

Ice? Meh. Lucky for them Martians there's no oil ...

Most likely not any oil such as earth. However there most likely gold and other metals along with diamonds.

Most likely not any oil such as earth. However there most likely gold and other metals along with diamonds.

I was kidding about the oil. I guess there are mineral resources, though I hardly think we should be planning to strip-mine the planet. It's just cool enough that we're learning so much about it.

That is quite interesting.

But also quite freaky.

I mean, they are clearly saying there was a huge ammount of water on mars, yet it just VANISHED. That if fucking scary, if you ask me.

There's a reason it's all ice. The temparature on the surface of Mars is such that, without some serious teraforming, you would never get that ice to flow freely on the surface.

This is due to its lack of a magnetosphere, which allows solar winds to interact directly with the ionosphere, resulting in a much thinner atmosphere.


Keep in mind that this is despite Mars' atmosphere being composed largely of CO2 (95%)

And their polar ice caps are also shrinking. Must be all the Martian CO2 use, huh? From space.com

In the other study, led by Michael C. Malin, features at the south pole were observed to retreat by up to 10 feet (3 meters) from one Martian year to the next.

Couldn't be a hotter sun, that's been ruled out by the enviro-extremists for our polar ice cap shrinkage.

And their polar ice caps are also shrinking. Must be all the Martian CO2 use, huh? From space.com

Couldn't be a hotter sun, that's been ruled out by the enviro-extremists for our polar ice cap shrinkage.

Martian Atmosphere:
CO2 95%
Nitrogen 3%

The Greenhouse Effect? Apparently priceless.

That is quite interesting.

But also quite freaky.

I mean, they are clearly saying there was a huge ammount of water on mars, yet it just VANISHED. That if fucking scary, if you ask me.

I have heard that a possible explanation is that the Martian internals shut down and it's core has basically solidified. Thus it's magnetic field was decreased so much it destroyed the eco-system below. I am not sure if we could turn Mars into a Earth like planet. Without a strong magnetic field there is only so much we can do. Unless of course we somehow re-produce a magnetic field for the planet.

Did you just ask me to get you a cheeseburger?

I believe he did but said hold the ketchup.:D

Did you just ask me to get you a cheeseburger?

Well if you're offering! :D

*calculates*
That's only 283km^3. Cool, but some of the aquifers let out millions of km^3 back in the day - they need to find that. *nods*

Did you just ask me to get you a cheeseburger?

And their polar ice caps are also shrinking. Must be all the Martian CO2 use, huh? From space.com

Couldn't be a hotter sun, that's been ruled out by the enviro-extremists for our polar ice cap shrinkage.

Martian Atmosphere:
CO2 95%
Nitrogen 3%

The Greenhouse Effect? Apparently priceless.

Oh, hush up, both of you! The Martian atmosphere is about the equivalent of the Earth's at 35 km. :rolleyes:

Thus it's magnetic field was decreased so much it destroyed the eco-system below

I heard its due to Mars being too small and not geologically active (the same reason Venus isn't habitable only mars went the other way)

Oh, hush up, both of you! The Martian atmosphere is about the equivalent of the Earth's at 35 km. :rolleyes:
At the surface, it is considered a pretty good laboratory vacuum.

And their polar ice caps are also shrinking. Must be all the Martian CO2 use, huh?
Couldn't be a hotter sun, that's been ruled out by the enviro-extremists for our polar ice cap shrinkage.
You never give up, do you?
Like a small yappy dog attacking the cuffs on someone's trousers, you just won't let it go.

Here's an idea (from space.com too, if you bothered to go looking for more than the one taken-out-of-contxt soundbite needed to prop up your strawman):
If Mars is getting slightly warmer over the course of a Martian year (which is almost 2 Earth years at 687 days), this could, and by NASA accounts has, caused some of the CO2 frozen solid to thaw out and be released into the atmosphere.
Thereby making the atmosphere more dense - and surprise, surprise! - causing global warming due to CO2's ability to trap heat.
OMG - much like what the global warming ppl are saying is happening here on Earth.

How about that?

*calculates*
That's only 283km^3. Cool, but some of the aquifers let out millions of km^3 back in the day - they need to find that. *nods*

It probably blew away. When Mars' magnetic field shit the bed, the solar winds probably blew a lot of it into space along with a good chunk of the atmosphere. The rest is locked underground. *nod*

That's what I always thought as well - that Mars wasn't big enough to hold onto it's atmosphere.

Partly, during the early days, Mars was a lot more geologically active, with liquid water etc. Mars quite literally died a cold death. A lot of volatiles (gases) were probably lost, relative to Earth because the gravity is weaker. Having said that, most of the atmosphere probably froze out due to a decreasing heat flux, and is now at the poles or buried in the permafrost.

I heard its due to Mars being too small and not geologically active (the same reason Venus isn't habitable only mars went the other way)
That's what I always thought as well - that Mars wasn't big enough to hold onto it's atmosphere.

You never give up, do you?
Like a small yappy dog attacking the cuffs on someone's trousers, you just won't let it go.

Here's an idea (from space.com too, if you bothered to go looking for more than the one taken-out-of-contxt soundbite needed to prop up your strawman):
If Mars is getting slightly warmer over the course of a Martian year (which is almost 2 Earth years at 687 days), this could, and by NASA accounts has, caused some of the CO2 frozen solid to thaw out and be released into the atmosphere.
Thereby making the atmosphere more dense - and surprise, surprise! - causing global warming due to CO2's ability to trap heat.
OMG - much like what the global warming ppl are saying is happening here on Earth.

How about that?

You do realize that you're talking to a wall, right? :p

You do realize that you're talking to a wall, right? :p

Solid brick :headbang:

I heard somewhere that we should be looking for peroxide-based life, and the Voyagers may have killed some of that life with their tests.

EDIT: Link (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16516952/)

Partly, during the early days, Mars was a lot more geologically active, with liquid water etc. Mars quite literally died a cold death. A lot of volatiles (gases) were probably lost, relative to Earth because the gravity is weaker. Having said that, most of the atmosphere probably froze out due to a decreasing heat flux, and is now at the poles or buried in the permafrost.
ahhh...thank you for that.

Martian Atmosphere:
CO2 95%
Nitrogen 3%

The Greenhouse Effect? Apparently priceless.

So the planet is basically teraforming itself?

Fucking excellent. When our planet is about to kick the bucket we'll have another one ready and waiting for us.

There's a reason it's all ice. The temparature on the surface of Mars is such that, without some serious teraforming, you would never get that ice to flow freely on the surface.

This is due to its lack of a magnetosphere, which allows solar winds to interact directly with the ionosphere, resulting in a much thinner atmosphere.


Keep in mind that this is despite Mars' atmosphere being composed largely of CO2 (95%)

And their polar ice caps are also shrinking. Must be all the Martian CO2 use, huh? From space.com

Couldn't be a hotter sun, that's been ruled out by the enviro-extremists for our polar ice cap shrinkage.

Martian Atmosphere:
CO2 95%
Nitrogen 3%

The Greenhouse Effect? Apparently priceless.
Venus has a similar atmosphere and is around 500C.


See what happens when you take one little piece of information out of context?

I heard its due to Mars being too small and not geologically active (the same reason Venus isn't habitable only mars went the other way)

That's what I was saying. Mars was active at one time. Remember the largest volcano in the Solar System is on Mars(Olympus Mons http://www.windows.ucar.edu/tour/link=/mars/interior/Martian_volcanos.html&edu=high) Imagine the possibility of kimberlite pipe on that volcano. The amount of diamonds that could be there could be huge.

That's what I was saying. Mars was active at one time. Remember the largest volcano in the Solar System is on Mars(Olympus Mons http://www.windows.ucar.edu/tour/link=/mars/interior/Martian_volcanos.html&edu=high) Imagine the possibility of kimberlite pipe on that volcano. The amount of diamonds that could be there could be huge.

Like we need more diamonds. (Explanation: Diamonds aren't rare at all. They're actually the most common of all the precious gems - moreso than over half of the so-called semi-precious stones, in fact. The only reason people pay stupidly exorbitant prices for common carbon is that De Beers has artificially jacked up the prices with their near monopoly. You should be paying about ten bucks US per carat.)

Making Mars habitable would be fairly easy, temperature wise. Use reflective mirrors - BIG ones, say 10 KM across, maybe a dozen of them - to increase insolation. Raise the temperature enough to get all that CO2 working for you, and start melting the poles, releasing even more CO2. Once the temperature gets above a certain level, you'll also melt the permafrost under the soil - probably MORE CO2!

So, Temperature isn't a problem; we could do that RIGHT NOW. Thickening the atmosphere to livable pressures would still be necessary, as would eventually converting most of that CO2 to Nitrogen and Oxygen (and dealing with the loss of the greenhouse effect that would entail), but I have no doubt it could be done.

That's what I was saying. Mars was active at one time. Remember the largest volcano in the Solar System is on Mars(Olympus Mons http://www.windows.ucar.edu/tour/link=/mars/interior/Martian_volcanos.html&edu=high) Imagine the possibility of kimberlite pipe on that volcano. The amount of diamonds that could be there could be huge.

Which is largely pointless, because we have an assload of diamonds here, as well. They're in warehouses owned by DeBeers. We're not exactly having a shortage of diamonds, especially considering we're developing technology to artificially create them.

Which is largely pointless, because we have an assload of diamonds here, as well. They're in warehouses owned by DeBeers. We're not exactly having a shortage of diamonds, especially considering we're developing technology to artificially create them.

Irregardless of having an assload in warehouses. The fact however is that the price is high. We also have an assload of oil however the price is still high for that too. Both are controlled by cartels. If something is economically viable to retrieve then people will try and retrieve said item.
Artificial diamonds are good for industrial use however ask a woman if she would rather have a man made diamond or a natural one.

Martian Atmosphere:
CO2 95%
Nitrogen 3%

The Greenhouse Effect? Apparently priceless.

Think about this. The atmosphere on Mars is relatively stable for a long time. No Martians adding CO2, anyway. The ice caps have been shrinking only recently. There must have been heat added to the system to make that happen. Hotter Sun? Sure. Same Sun that shines on Earth? Yep. Earth's temp's rising? Maybe it's due to the hotter Sun?

You do realize that you're talking to a wall, right? :p

Solid brick :headbang:
I know it's a little subtle for y'all, but the only parts of the climate change argument that I'm opposing is that 1. It's man-made and 2. Reducing the small amount of CO2 we add to the atmosphere by an infinitesimal amount will actually do any good. Instead of wasting our time with the argument that we can reverse the climate change that is occurring, we should be looking for ways to manage it.

Think about this. The atmosphere on Mars is relatively stable for a long time. No Martians adding CO2, anyway. The ice caps have been shrinking only recently. There must have been heat added to the system to make that happen. Hotter Sun? Sure. Same Sun that shines on Earth? Yep. Earth's temp's rising? Maybe it's due to the hotter Sun?

Could be changes in dust levels on the caps - changing the albedo. I do recall the supposed shrinking though.

Think about this. The atmosphere on Mars is relatively stable for a long time. No Martians adding CO2, anyway. The ice caps have been shrinking only recently. There must have been heat added to the system to make that happen. Hotter Sun? Sure. Same Sun that shines on Earth? Yep. Earth's temp's rising? Maybe it's due to the hotter Sun?

Clearly to simple of a theory to make sense. ;)

I know it's a little subtle for y'all, but the only parts of the climate change argument that I'm opposing is that 1. It's man-made and 2. Reducing the small amount of CO2 we add to the atmosphere by an infinitesimal amount will actually do any good. Instead of wasting our time with the argument that we can reverse the climate change that is occurring, we should be looking for ways to manage it.

Personally, I find the question irrelevant - we have no choice but to manage it. Either the effect is a result of 150+ years of carbon emissions, in which case cutting back now isn't going to do any good at all, or it isn't our fault, in which case there's nothing we can do anyway.

All this "carbon offsets" and "reduced emissions" stuff is far too little, far too late. It was probably too late before we even realised there was a problem.

Personally, I find the question irrelevant - we have no choice but to manage it. Either the effect is a result of 150+ years of carbon emissions, in which case cutting back now isn't going to do any good at all, or it isn't our fault, in which case there's nothing we can do anyway.

All this "carbon offsets" and "reduced emissions" stuff is far too little, far too late. It was probably too late before we even realised there was a problem.


Question is if it is proven to be be solar output then how do we manage that? Do you mean managing it by building sea barriers to protect our cities or moving whole population centers to higher ground?

Question is if it is proven to be be solar output then how do we manage that? Do you mean managing it by building sea barriers to protect our cities or moving whole population centers to higher ground?

I don't see that we'll have much choice. A lot of our low-lying ground is just going to disappear.

Those cities capable of being protected will be, and some will have little trouble; they'll just lose their docklands and rebuild them at the higher water line. Others will have to be abandoned (Miami, maybe London) because there's no real way to shield them. Provision will have to be made for the people of those nations which will basically disppear, such as many of the Islands, or Bangladesh.

More inland cities will probably experience a population boom. We're also going to need to develop more efficient food growing technologies, as we lose some of our growing areas.

One thing for certain: If you own coastal land, sell up now.

Irregardless of having an assload in warehouses. The fact however is that the price is high. We also have an assload of oil however the price is still high for that too. Both are controlled by cartels. If something is economically viable to retrieve then people will try and retrieve said item.
Artificial diamonds are good for industrial use however ask a woman if she would rather have a man made diamond or a natural one.

I wouldn't ask a woman who's only interested in diamonds because they're expensive, because she's most likely something that I'll get banned for calling someone.

The shit is shiny regardless of how many terrorist groups or diamond cartels have been paid off to get it, and regardless of how much slave labor it took to excavate it. It's shiny. Get over it.

That's all the majority of diamonds are. They're just shiny. There are a few exceptions - the hope diamond is shiny and beautiful and intricate and large and looks very pretty, but the technology will get to where we can create the exact same thing in a lab without people dying over it. At that point, I'll prefer the lab version.

Once we can create diamond computer chips, I'd like to see some rich bitch walk by and try to show off her big shiny rock without feeling pointless as she notices I've got a fucking diamond computer - and it shimmers like a mother fucker.

Apparently there is enough water in this one deposit on Mars to cover the planet up to 36ft deep in water. I knew there was water but did not realize that this much was still there. So should we start making plans to terra-form the planet Mars now? I think this is a great find and bodes well for the future colonization of Mars. Also should the US and Europe get there to claim the planet first?

http://www.cnn.com/2007/TECH/space/03/16/mars.water.reut/index.html

cool. and yes, the real question is: how soon can we terraform the planet? we need more lebensraum!!

I know it's a little subtle for y'all, but the only parts of the climate change argument that I'm opposing is that 1. It's man-made and 2. Reducing the small amount of CO2 we add to the atmosphere by an infinitesimal amount will actually do any good. Instead of wasting our time with the argument that we can reverse the climate change that is occurring, we should be looking for ways to manage it.

i would agree, but as i understand it from last weekend's Times, if the global temperature rises by 1 degree celcius, that will start a chain of events that will, inevitably, cause it to rise by another degree. this chain reaction will keep going until the planet has warmed by 6* C and vast areas will be uninhabitable.

so there's your reason for trying to reverse or reduce the effects somehow...

why would we ever terraform it? even if we succeeded we would never have the means to go there with a lot of people.

i would agree, but as i understand it from last weekend's Times, if the global temperature rises by 1 degree celcius, that will start a chain of events that will, inevitably, cause it to rise by another degree. this chain reaction will keep going until the planet has warmed by 6* C and vast areas will be uninhabitable.

so there's your reason for trying to reverse or reduce the effects somehow...

More trees, less people. They'll soak up the CO2 and release oxygen, less people around we'll breathe less oxygen and create less CO2.

Start planting!

More trees, less people. They'll soak up the CO2 and release oxygen, less people around we'll breathe less oxygen and create less CO2.

Start planting!

Bah! :rolleyes:

"Plant a Tree, Save The Rain Forest, Recycled paper". They're so last century.

This century is all about running around in circles like chickens with our heads cut off shrieking, "AIEEE!!! CLIMATE CHANGE!!! AIEEEE!!! AIEEE!!! DISAPPEARING GLACIERS!!! AIEEEE!!!" and then pointing fingers, quivering with rage at the oil barons who have destroyed us all(while at the same time, providing us with those lovely plastic bags that the environmentalists used to recommend to save those trees).

It's not about saving nature anymore. It's about damning people. We are all fuckin' assholes. *nod*

More trees, less people. They'll soak up the CO2 and release oxygen, less people around we'll breathe less oxygen and create less CO2.

Start planting!

Someone on NSG, I honestly forget who, has argued that mature trees are bad for the environment, as they contribute to greenhouse gases more than they absorb carbon dioxide. Something like that. :rolleyes:

More trees, less people. They'll soak up the CO2 and release oxygen, less people around we'll breathe less oxygen and create less CO2.

Start planting!

.... and killing! :p ;)

why would we ever terraform it? even if we succeeded we would never have the means to go there with a lot of people.

We'd figure out something. Will to live is a bitch.

.... and killing! :p ;)

Well we're already doing quite a bit of that. More is always better, though.

Also, stop having babies. For a while. At least a year. Everyone, stop.

Earths good enough for me. As the anthropic priciple proves, humans evolved here therefore it must be good for humans to live here.

Earths good enough for me. As the anthropic priciple proves, humans evolved here therefore it must be good for humans to live here.

Then why are we evolving? :p

And their polar ice caps are also shrinking. Must be all the Martian CO2 use, huh?

Considering the martian atmosphere is about....90% CO2...yeah, that seems fair.

Then why are we evolving? :p

Because we're picky bastards.

EDIT: Also, w00t for 3000 posts and a new title.

i would agree, but as i understand it from last weekend's Times, if the global temperature rises by 1 degree celcius, that will start a chain of events that will, inevitably, cause it to rise by another degree. this chain reaction will keep going until the planet has warmed by 6* C and vast areas will be uninhabitable.

so there's your reason for trying to reverse or reduce the effects somehow...

With finite resources, there are probably only a couple ways to approach the problem. I don't think that picking at the edges in the form of the Kyoto treaty is going to do any good. I also doubt that the world will gladly move back into the 14th or 15th century, in order to avoid the effects, if any, of industrialization. Maybe the answer is to move people to the Moon or to Mars? Maybe, and most likely, we can't prevent the temperature from raising another degree. The best answer is still to manage the change.

With finite resources, there are probably only a couple ways to approach the problem. I don't think that picking at the edges in the form of the Kyoto treaty is going to do any good. I also doubt that the world will gladly move back into the 14th or 15th century, in order to avoid the effects, if any, of industrialization. Maybe the answer is to move people to the Moon or to Mars? Maybe, and most likely, we can't prevent the temperature from raising another degree. The best answer is still to manage the change.

So how do you, within the scope of your expertise (I recall you mentioning being a physicist) propose to manage the problem?

Someone on NSG, I honestly forget who, has argued that mature trees are bad for the environment, as they contribute to greenhouse gases more than they absorb carbon dioxide. Something like that. :rolleyes:

Not surprised. *shrugs* Can anyone give proof for that statement about trees?

Bah! :rolleyes:

"Plant a Tree, Save The Rain Forest, Recycled paper". They're so last century.

This century is all about running around in circles like chickens with our heads cut off shrieking, "AIEEE!!! CLIMATE CHANGE!!! AIEEEE!!! AIEEE!!! DISAPPEARING GLACIERS!!! AIEEEE!!!" and then pointing fingers, quivering with rage at the oil barons who have destroyed us all(while at the same time, providing us with those lovely plastic bags that the environmentalists used to recommend to save those trees).

It's not about saving nature anymore. It's about damning people. We are all fuckin' assholes. *nod*

Well yeah, but, y'know, fuck it. Might as well act like we're not assholes. It's the only thing keeping us afloat at this point.

So how do you, within the scope of your expertise (I recall you mentioning being a physicist) propose to manage the problem?
That could be kinda interesting because my field is high power microwave radiation.

But when you think about natural effects on climate, a large volcano like Pinatubo in the Philippines or St Helen's in Washington had the temporary effect of reducing global temperatures. Maybe we seed the atmosphere with similar size particles -- kind of like drawing the window shades, you know? I dunno. But I do think that the effort that is wasted by pointing fingers at Kyoto signers and non signers, industrial and developing nations, or even at man and nature could be put to better use.

That could be kinda interesting because my field is high power microwave radiation.

But when you think about natural effects on climate, a large volcano like Pinatubo in the Philippines or St Helen's in Washington had the temporary effect of reducing global temperatures. Maybe we seed the atmosphere with similar size particles -- kind of like drawing the window shades, you know? I dunno. But I do think that the effort that is wasted by pointing fingers at Kyoto signers and non signers, industrial and developing nations, or even at man and nature could be put to better use.

They had a proposal like that in New Scientist a while back - using offshore wind power to evaporate sea water, in order to produce clouds which reflect solar radiation.

I have heard that a possible explanation is that the Martian internals shut down and it's core has basically solidified. Thus it's magnetic field was decreased so much it destroyed the eco-system below. I am not sure if we could turn Mars into a Earth like planet. Without a strong magnetic field there is only so much we can do. Unless of course we somehow re-produce a magnetic field for the planet.

Then what we need is an moon for Mars. One with similar proportions to ours to exert enough gravity on the dustball to reactivate the core.

Most likely not any oil such as earth. However there most likely gold and other metals along with diamonds.
gold, maybe
as for diamonds... i don't think that there would be much diamonds due to the lack of a core that is around the same temp as ours. it could be argued that when the planet was forming the heat caused by impact from meteors could make the planet hot enough, long enough for diamonds.
now let the insults that are directed at me fly.

gold, maybe
as for diamonds... i don't think that there would be much diamonds due to the lack of a core that is around the same temp as ours. it could be argued that when the planet was forming the heat caused by impact from meteors could make the planet hot enough, long enough for diamonds.
now let the insults that are directed at me fly.

Why would you assume we'd want to insult you, you misbegotten, uneducated ... :D

I don't think there'd be much in the way of diamonds, either, for pretty much the same reasons. Interestingly, diamonds require high pressure but relatively low temperatures (900 - 1300 C) and can only form in specific regions of the mantle. I have read that meteorite impacts can generate microdiamonds, however.

Apparently there is enough water in this one deposit on Mars to cover the planet up to 36ft deep in water. I knew there was water but did not realize that this much was still there. So should we start making plans to terra-form the planet Mars now? I think this is a great find and bodes well for the future colonization of Mars. Also should the US and Europe get there to claim the planet first?
You seem to be forgetting one very important thing. Gravity, or rather the lack of it on Mars. That and the fact that it's a lot further away from the sun and therefore significantly colder. And it has a thin atmosphere comapred to the one we're used to. How will those be solved?

You seem to be forgetting one very important thing. Gravity, or rather the lack of it on Mars. That and the fact that it's a lot further away from the sun and therefore significantly colder. And it has a thin atmosphere comapred to the one we're used to. How will those be solved?

Uhm ...

We drill deep holes and pour in molten iron and make it bigger and more gravitic?

We move it closer to the sun?

We enclose it in plastic like they do when you have your house fumigated and pump in lots of good air?

What's your point, that this isn't interesting because it's on another planet?

We drill deep holes and pour in molten iron and make it bigger and more gravitic?
All of which would have to be rocketed from Earth. At least the craft would have to come from Earth and it would take a lot of craft to grab that much iron and move it to Mars. Do you have any idea how much fucking raw material it would take to bring Mars up from 1/10th Earth mass and 1/3 Earth gravity?

We move it closer to the sun?
Oh, so we can move planets now. I didn't know that was within humanities technical grasp. Do you have any idea how much 1/10th Earth mass is? 6.4185×10^23 kg. Yiu'd need more than that in fuel. And fuel for the fuel. And fuel to stop. And fuel for that fuel to. If anyone had that much in the way of raw materials why not just build another planet?

We enclose it in plastic like they do when you have your house fumigated and pump in lots of good air?
A whole planet? Do you know how much material that would take? How much aire that would take?

What's your point, that this isn't interesting because it's on another planet?
My point is that you shouldn't get your hopes up. You can't just say "I have a dream, what could possibly stand in my way?" Because there will always be someone like me to say "reason, sanity, the laws of physics."

You seem to be forgetting one very important thing. Gravity, or rather the lack of it on Mars. That and the fact that it's a lot further away from the sun and therefore significantly colder. And it has a thin atmosphere comapred to the one we're used to. How will those be solved?

algae and other microbial thingys can be used to convert the atmosphere over a long period, iirc
not to mention just being very polluting :P

the gravity would have to be something to deal with. what is it compared to the earth's (assuming earth is 1)?

and colder..... wear jumpers? :confused: ;)

(edit: i don't pretend to know the answers, but i do remember documentaries on similar topics as this and i don't believe its impossible. if the groundwork is there - ie *an* atmosphere, and water, then it can be possible over a long period of time to terraform)

So should we start making plans to terra-form the planet Mars now? I think this is a great find and bodes well for the future colonization of Mars. Also should the US and Europe get there to claim the planet first?

yes!

Quaid start the reactors!

They had a proposal like that in New Scientist a while back - using offshore wind power to evaporate sea water, in order to produce clouds which reflect solar radiation.

Just let me know before they begin so I can stock up my underground bunker and seal myself in. :p

interesting & cool: http://www.marsgeo.com/Opportunity/Top20.htm

Just let me know before they begin so I can stock up my underground bunker and seal myself in. :p
I'll bring cookies.

You seem to be forgetting one very important thing. Gravity, or rather the lack of it on Mars. That and the fact that it's a lot further away from the sun and therefore significantly colder. And it has a thin atmosphere comapred to the one we're used to. How will those be solved?

If you had taken the time and read through the post the gravity situation has been addressed. Seems to be that the core of Mars is a solid one or near solid. Hence without Iron moving around inside the gravity is reduced and the magnetic field is weakened to near nothing. Someone suggested pulling a mass the size of the moon into orbit on mars to help kick start the inner planet. Do not know if that would work but an interesting theory.

The temperature can most likely be controlled by the water vapor and gasses in the atmosphere. I am not sure we could get it up to the temp needed for plant growth though.

Seems to be that the core of Mars is a solid one or near solid. Hence without Iron moving around inside the gravity is reduced
ORLY?

If you had taken the time and read through the post the gravity situation has been addressed. Seems to be that the core of Mars is a solid one or near solid. Hence without Iron moving around inside the gravity is reduced and the magnetic field is weakened to near nothing. Someone suggested pulling a mass the size of the moon into orbit on mars to help kick start the inner planet. Do not know if that would work but an interesting theory.

The temperature can most likely be controlled by the water vapor and gasses in the atmosphere. I am not sure we could get it up to the temp needed for plant growth though.

The rotation (or non-) of Mars' core won't have any effect on gravity - that's purely a function of planetery mass. It would explain Mars' lack of Van Allen belts though - which is another problem: High energy radiation from the sun isn't interdicted on Mars. Radiation background is significantly higher than on Earth.

And their polar ice caps are also shrinking. Must be all the Martian CO2 use, huh? From space.com

Couldn't be a hotter sun, that's been ruled out by the enviro-extremists for our polar ice cap shrinkage.

Wait...

Where's it going?

Wait...

Where's it going?

Presumably into the atmosphere. The poles seem to be a mix of H2O and CO2 slush - above a certain temperature (which Mars hovers around normally) the CO2 sublimates to gas. With the low pressure, the water would do the same.

Life as we know it requires water and, in fact, at least transient liquid water for cells to survive and reproduce. So if we are expecting to find existing life on Mars we need to go to a location where water is available.
Just one big problem there, chief. Any life that evolves on another planet, especially one as different from Earth as Mars will be completely different.

Nowhere in space will we rest our eyes upon the familiar shapes of trees and plants, or any of the animals that share our world. Whatsoever life we meet will be as strange and alien as the nightmare creatures of the ocean abyss, or of the insect empire whose horrors are normally hidden from us by their microscopic scale.
-Sir Arthur C. Clarke, 1962

Now onto the terraforming of Mars.
Problem the first: gravity. There is no way around this one except to add mass. A lot of mass. As in more than you could ever hope to move.

Problem the second: air. This one is almost as difficult. It's not simply a problem of the composition of the planets atomosphere, in fact it's more a problem of pressure. It has at most .9% Earth atmospheric pressure. Again, you'd need to import matter to fix this, not simply import a bunch of plants. They can only process the air, not produce it.

Problem the third: radiation. Mars has no ozonosphere and it's atmosphere is way too thin to block out cosmic rays. If it had sufficient oxygen that could solve the ozone problem and filter UVB but does not block UVA at all and that's the one implicated in deep skin DNA changes thought responsible for melanomas. Again, it would need a thicker atmosphere and a different atmospheric composition. That means importing.

Problem the fourth: transportation. It is highly inadvisable to utilize technology that cannot be supported by the planet's technology infrastructure. A vehicle that requires gasoline as fuel isn't going to work very well on a planet with no oil wells nor oil refineries and it takes 6 ping pong tables worth of solar cells to make the average care run on Earth. It'll take even more to make it run on Mars the same way. For these reasons and many more you'd be better off with horses.