NationStates Jolt Archive

I was thinking about it today, and from a spiritual view point I actually do. No I am not crazy,(not yet anyways) and I am not some idiot(ok thats debatable), but I do believe in some spiritual opposite of good.

Does anyone have any good source on demonology, preferably related to Judeo Christian beliefs?

*snip* Does anyone have any good source on demonology, preferably related to Judeo Christian beliefs?

Have you checked out any of Father Malachi Martin's works?

They're fictional entities made up to instill fear in people.

That said, I recommend you look into Aleister Crowley's works. The Talmud supposedly has some references to demonology as well.

Have you checked out any of Father Malachi Martin's works?


no, but i am googling him right now :D

They're one of the weirder notions to be promoted by religions where the supreme spiritual being is omnibenevolent and omnipotent.

They're one of the weirder notions to be promoted by religions where the supreme spiritual being is omnibenevolent and omnipotent.
Precisely. I'm not sure how anyone can believe in their literal existence. Reading on them is still of interest though. :)

I was thinking about it today, and from a spiritual view point I actually do. No I am not crazy,(not yet anyways) and I am not some idiot(ok thats debatable), but I do believe in some spiritual opposite of good.

Does anyone have any good source on demonology, preferably related to Judeo Christian beliefs?

No, I do not believe in demons. Given that demons are meant as a personification of true evil and that evil and good are both concepts that do not exist in reality...

I believe in objective morality, but I don't yet believe in spiritual beings. They might exist, but I have no reason at this time to posit that they do. Demons existing would require spiritual beings to exist, so that's just not going to work.

Don't we call them Nuns?

*shudders thinking of the rulers*

I don't believe in demons but I remember my web design teacher did. She said it with such conviction that it was actually quite frightening.

I was thinking about it today, and from a spiritual view point I actually do. No I am not crazy,(not yet anyways) and I am not some idiot(ok thats debatable), but I do believe in some spiritual opposite of good.

How are you defining the term 'demon'? One man's god is another's demon and vice versa.

What exactly are you interested in? If you're looking for names and descriptions, the "Dictionnaire Infernal" is an example of those (I should note that it is light on content, however). If you want summoning rituals and the like, the Key of Solomon and Lemegeton are interesting.

You'll be able to find all of those and many other examples online, i'd wager.

I believe in objective morality, but I don't yet believe in spiritual beings. They might exist, but I have no reason at this time to posit that they do. Demons existing would require spiritual beings to exist, so that's just not going to work.

Could it be that some spiritual beings (or energy forms) are created by our own thought processes?

In Soviet Russia, demons' thought processes create YOU!

Had to do it.

In Soviet Russia, demons' thought processes create YOU!

Had to do it.

Maybe. How so?

What is a demon, but an aspect of your being acting independently of the established whole?

Yes I do, the most common varieties are gays, lesbians, socialists, intellectuals, unionists, Muslims and all those that disagree with Israeli foreign policy.

Everyone has their demons

Everyone has their demons

Hmmm, but then what are a demon's demons?

Hmmm, but then what are a demon's demons?

That would be me.

I don't believe in any form of disembodied consciousness, as demons presumably are.

Could it be that some spiritual beings (or energy forms) are created by our own thought processes?

Maybe they are. Til' I meet one, the jury's still out as far as I'm concerned.

Demons? Sure.... if there are Leprechauns, there have to be demons, too :rolleyes:

Well, I'm not five years old, so no.

The only demons I believe in are human.

They're called politicians and religious leaders.

No

No. Personally, I think the concept of demons is even more stupid than the concept of god.

Demons are real. If you do not pay me $50, then they will torment you forever. Quickly! There is no time to lose! Think of the children!

Actually, I find it more than a little worrying that people really still believe in demons. It worries me a lot.

Actually, I find it more than a little worrying that people really still believe in demons. It worries me a lot.

No different to any other religious belief, in my opinion.

No different to any other religious belief, in my opinion.

I don't know, for some reason it seems a lot sillier to me.

I don't know, for some reason it seems a lot sillier to me.

Well...particularly when it comes to Abrahamic religions and their assorted quirks, such as folks rising from the dead and parting oceans, I don't really think so. :P

It seems to me you can't believe in god without believing in something like demons. The world obviously has a lot of bad stuff inherent in its structure, so it's ludicrous to say that it was designed by a loving god. At the least, if you're going to make up good supernatural powers, you need to include evil ones for consistency.

You might want to take a look at the older monotheisms like Zoroastrianism, or the more plausible Manichaeism. The wikipedia entries are at least worth a read.

Having said that, there's no reason to believe in god in the first place, so I don't believe in demons :)

Well...particularly when it comes to Abrahamic religions and their assorted quirks, such as folks rising from the dead and parting oceans, I don't really think so. :P

I doubt the majority of normal people who put themselves down as Christian or Judaism or whatever really believe that Moses parted the sea.

EDIT
lol, I remember in Japanese in high school (went to a private school so we had prayers and religion, but nobody took it seriously) and the teacher was talking about some old Japanese creation myth where some character dripped water off a sword or something and that created the ocean or something. Anyway, a few people laughed derisivley at how silly it was, and then the teacher goes (paraphrasing) "Well, look at it relatively, it is silly, but so it the idea of Noah parting the sea; does anyone actually believe that?" and then some kid, completely seriously, goes "Yes." That was gold.

i believe in a greater diversity among the nontangable as well as the tangable then we will ever begin to immagine, but as for any awairness being predisposed toward hamfulness by nature or birth, i find that as a concept inhierently absurd.

no awairness is predisposed toward anything. period.

the pretense that any might is pure vested prejudice; and as such itself harmful and as this is the kind of harmfulness that causes suffering, thus itself evil.

the only real evil that there is. the knowing causing of avoidable suffering.

it IS up to each and every awairness, individualy and collectively both, to avoid screwing everything up for each other. there is no predisposition by birth to pervent this, only the misplaced social coersion to put other things ahead of doing so.

=^^=
.../\...

No, not really. Until I discovered this (http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y223/GermanNightmare/TrappedInside.gif) about me. :p [1.7MB - give it some time to load]

Could it be that some spiritual beings (or energy forms) are created by our own thought processes?

Like ghosts? Yeah.

As far as demons go, at one time I would say with complete and utter conviction that they do, in fact exist; but like ghosts, poltergeists, and Sasquatch, have slipped from the realm of certainty into obscurity. Fun to read about, and think about, and postulate, but I'm not really expecting anything.

Additionally, I don't see how one can fear demons and not fear God; I believe far more surely in the wrath of God in whatever manifestation it appears than in the wrath of Satan and his minions, though it does make good Hollywood.

I doubt the majority of normal people who put themselves down as Christian or Judaism or whatever really believe that Noah parted the oceans.



Meh, I don't really believe that Moses built the Ark either.

Having said that, there's no reason to believe in god in the first place, so I don't believe in demons :)

Perhaps not. But I have more faith in God than in science.

I doubt the majority of normal people who put themselves down as Christian or Judaism or whatever really believe that Noah parted the oceans.

Maybe not, but Christians nevertheless believe that God impregnated Mary, then Jesus died and came back to life (and then there's the story of Lazarus, too). If that's treated as feasible, why not demons?

EDIT
lol, I remember in Japanese in high school (went to a private school so we had prayers and religion, but nobody took it seriously) and the teacher was talking about some old Japanese creation myth where some character dripped water off a sword or something and that created the ocean or something. Anyway, a few people laughed derisivley at how silly it was, and then the teacher goes (paraphrasing) "Well, look at it relatively, it is silly, but so it the idea of Noah parting the sea; does anyone actually believe that?" and then some kid, completely seriously, goes "Yes." That was gold.
Yeah, well...I went to a Catholic school...and some people really believed the Earth was created in 7 days. :p

Meh, I don't really believe that Moses built the Ark either.

I don't think even the most devout Christian or Jew does. ;)

Perhaps not. But I have more faith in God than in science.

Makes sense I suppose. If you don't believe in penicillin it will still cure the syphilis you got from not using condoms. Whereas if you don't believe in God, the Church will stop working for you all together.

Maybe not, but Christians nevertheless believe that God impregnated Mary, then Jesus died and came back to life (and then there's the story of Lazarus, too). If that's treated as feasible, why not demons?


Yeah, well...I went to a Catholic school...and some people really believed the Earth was created in 7 days. :p

One time in science class...the teacher actually thought the Earth was 4.5 billion years old. Can you believe that? :D

Bah! Nonsense! Sillyness! Pfff!

That's my response to the concept of demons.

I don't think even the most devout Christian or Jew does. ;)

Do you at least believe that Jesus was a real person who existed, and was born in Nazareth? :D

Makes sense I suppose. If you don't believe in penicillin it will still cure the syphilis you got from not using condoms. Whereas if you don't believe in God, the Church will stop working for you all together.

Depends on what stage of the syphilis you are in. Also, it works...most of the time. See, the thing with faith, you can have faith that the penicillin will work--that the doctors correctly gauged your condition, that you were prescribed the right amount, that you are not latently allergic, etc.--but you have faith because you don't know that it will pull through. Having faith is believing in something that can't be proven until it happens.

So, from a theological perspective, God is the penicillin, and your problems are the syphilis. You don't know that it will work, but you're pretty damn sure for the most part that you will, in fact, get better by some degree. At the very least you learn to enjoy the life you've got left. And for me, believing in God an accepting that whatever happens, I have a reason for life, it greatly improves my outlook, and I can enjoy life in general and really not sweat the small things, so to speak.

Depends on what stage of the syphilis you are in. Also, it works...most of the time. See, the thing with faith, you can have faith that the penicillin will work--that the doctors correctly gauged your condition, that you were prescribed the right amount, that you are not latently allergic, etc.--but you have faith because you don't know that it will pull through. Having faith is believing in something that can't be proven until it happens.

So, from a theological perspective, God is the penicillin, and your problems are the syphilis. You don't know that it will work, but you're pretty damn sure for the most part that you will, in fact, get better by some degree. At the very least you learn to enjoy the life you've got left. And for me, believing in God an accepting that whatever happens, I have a reason for life, it greatly improves my outlook, and I can enjoy life in general and really not sweat the small things, so to speak.

I'm allergic to penicillin, am I going to hell?

Oh, and the only demons I encounter regularly are all here (www.nexuswar.com).

Do you at least believe that Jesus was a real person who existed, and was born in Nazareth? :D

Don't know. Don't really care, personally.

if you mean by the judeo-christian definition, then no.

Hmmm, but then what are a demon's demons?

God.

God loves to bitchslap demons on a daily basis. :rolleyes:

I'm allergic to penicillin, am I going to hell?


Hmm...:fluffle:

The only answer I've got is that you better not get syphilis.

Hmm...:fluffle:

The only answer I've got is that you better not get syphilis.

That's the plan :D

Well I use Demon Naturally Speaking, so yes.


...



No, wait. That's Dragon Naturally Speaking.
Don't mind me.

I believe in these Daemons: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daemon_(computer_software)

I went to a catholic school, my religion teacher said that the world wasn't created in 7 days, but that evolution is real. He was firm believer in God, and a devout catholic. But, he wasn't fanatical and he believed also in reason.

As for demons, I don't think anyone from my old school believed in them, but I've come to believe in them without a doubt.

Their called the Red Devils, and live out west, based out of Edmonton I believe.

A cookie for whoever knows who/what I'm talking.

Sure do.
Ever spend time with a two (2) year old? They're ALL possesed :eek:

Sure do.
Ever spend time with a two (2) year old? They're ALL possesed :eek:

Too bloody right! *hides from cousin*

Define "demon". There's so many different definitions it's not even funny.

Yeah I agree, I mean sure I belive in ghost, I dunno about angels and demons though? heh although I have seen some real strange stuff.

Define "demon". There's so many different definitions it's not even funny.

I believe in these Daemons: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daemon_(computer_software)

nerd.

Demons are excuses for lazy and/or cowardly individuals who are unwilling or unable to confront reality. So yes, I believe that demons exist, and they will continue to exist for as long as lazy and/or cowardly people exist.

I used to believe in demons, not anymore. They're pretty good in CC, but the lack of range or armor and that damned instability rules just makes them too flakey.

Frankly they're just not worth the points cost. I don't really believe that they can work in mass.

/warhammergeek

nerd.
thank you!

Meh, I don't really believe that Moses built the Ark either.

lol, obviously I meant Moses.

lol, obviously I meant Moses.

Huh I see no differance?

Huh I see no differance?

I doubt the majority of normal people who put themselves down as Christian or Judaism or whatever really believe that Noah parted the sea.

He went back and edited it, but it was humorous.

I don't believe in demons. In my studies of mental pathology and special needs conditions I have found that the human mind is very fragile. Very prone to strange ideas that aren't true. Demonic voices in your head is a symptom quite common in conditions such as schizophrenia, Wesley Willis a "musician" with schizophrenia often told of his demons inside his head. I think it's just your less pleasent side of your personality, seeming to be a separate entity influencing you.

lol, obviously I meant Moses.

No worries. I needed a little laugh this morning, thanks!

I don't believe in demons. In my studies of mental pathology and special needs conditions I have found that the human mind is very fragile. Very prone to strange ideas that aren't true. Demonic voices in your head is a symptom quite common in conditions such as schizophrenia, Wesley Willis a "musician" with schizophrenia often told of his demons inside his head. I think it's just your less pleasent side of your personality, seeming to be a separate entity influencing you.


Heh though what about demons in front of your eyes?

Heh though what about demons in front of your eyes?

Merely another form of schizophrenia. having that is better than LSD for hallucinating.

Heh though what about demons in front of your eyes?

same thing really, visual hallucinations are no more unusual than auditory ones.

I believe that demons can only exist in a world where satan is more than a fallen angel. Only in the situation where Satan is in fact an aspect of god himself, and is of equal power to god's "good" aspect, to where they are in a constant state of battle where Earth is the battleground, and demons and angels are the soldiers of war.

If god's "good" aspect is even a slightest bit more powerful than his evil aspect, then the war is nonexistant, because he can exert his godly powers to wipe out the lesser aspect of himself, making it impossible for demons to exist as long as good is more powerful than evil.

people keep mentioning the the 7days creation vs the 4.5billion years thing.

did it ever occur to anyone that a day to god could easily be 10000 lifetimes to us?

I mean a Day is based on how fast the planet rotates and a year is based on the planets orbit around the sun. so thats how a day and a year are measured for someone who lives on earth.

Whoever said god made earth his home though?

also for evolition Vs Adam and Eve. Their is no telling how long they spent in the garden, they could of very well spent an eternity their. living in innocent immortal bliss never happening on the snake of the tree until that one fateful day.

people may wonder why are genetics arent totally screwed from thousands of years of supposed in-breding, after all the only people Adam and eve's children had to marry, where they brothers and sisters. But that brings up The book of generations, and the story of the Nephilim. now the Nephilim were supposedly giants, but then again so was Golith. Is it so outrageous to believe that these "angels of god" that came to earth were in fact "Aliens" sent by god from one of his other worlds so as to diversify our genetic pool?
Or are we so arogant as to think god was only capable of creating one world as a supposed omnipotent being? I guess maybe we are, after all we pretty much did kill our own messiah.

I could see demons as intelligent beings with attributes we would see as evil, but IMO they're more likely to be something from another universe or planet than truly supernatural entities.

So, they're entirely plausible but I haven't personally encountered any. Not that I plan to or plan to do anything that might encourage something of that nature; I prefer to hedge my bets rather than gamble on them.

people keep mentioning the the 7days creation vs the 4.5billion years thing.

did it ever occur to anyone that a day to god could easily be 10000 lifetimes to us?

I mean a Day is based on how fast the planet rotates and a year is based on the planets orbit around the sun. so thats how a day and a year are measured for someone who lives on earth.

Whoever said god made earth his home though?

also for evolition Vs Adam and Eve. Their is no telling how long they spent in the garden, they could of very well spent an eternity their. living in innocent immortal bliss never happening on the snake of the tree until that one fateful day.

people may wonder why are genetics arent totally screwed from thousands of years of supposed in-breding, after all the only people Adam and eve's children had to marry, where they brothers and sisters. But that brings up The book of generations, and the story of the Nephilim. now the Nephilim were supposedly giants, but then again so was Golith. Is it so outrageous to believe that these "angels of god" that came to earth were in fact "Aliens" sent by god from one of his other worlds so as to diversify our genetic pool?
Or are we so arogant as to think god was only capable of creating one world as a supposed omnipotent being? I guess maybe we are, after all we pretty much did kill our own messiah.


That has to be one of the most ludecrus argumenst I have ever heard.

Did God cause thebible to be writen so that it could understand it, or us?

Seems to me, that God could have made it's message to us clearer, that or the Bible is bullshit.

people keep mentioning the the 7days creation vs the 4.5billion years thing.

did it ever occur to anyone that a day to god could easily be 10000 lifetimes to us?

I mean a Day is based on how fast the planet rotates and a year is based on the planets orbit around the sun. so thats how a day and a year are measured for someone who lives on earth.

Whoever said god made earth his home though?

also for evolition Vs Adam and Eve. Their is no telling how long they spent in the garden, they could of very well spent an eternity their. living in innocent immortal bliss never happening on the snake of the tree until that one fateful day.

people may wonder why are genetics arent totally screwed from thousands of years of supposed in-breding, after all the only people Adam and eve's children had to marry, where they brothers and sisters. But that brings up The book of generations, and the story of the Nephilim. now the Nephilim were supposedly giants, but then again so was Golith. Is it so outrageous to believe that these "angels of god" that came to earth were in fact "Aliens" sent by god from one of his other worlds so as to diversify our genetic pool?
Or are we so arogant as to think god was only capable of creating one world as a supposed omnipotent being? I guess maybe we are, after all we pretty much did kill our own messiah.

Out of curiosity, how old are you?

Out of curiosity, how old are you?

21. and apparently a lunatic ^_^

21. and apparently a lunatic ^_^

I wouldn't say you're a lunatic, you just haven't thought through your ideas.

That has to be one of the most ludecrus argumenst I have ever heard.

Did God cause thebible to be writen so that it could understand it, or us?

Seems to me, that God could have made it's message to us clearer, that or the Bible is bullshit.

Since when is God a Respecter of Men?

I wouldn't say you're a lunatic, you just haven't thought through your ideas.

Becasue im young, I wasnt able to think through my ideas? sure ok. fine.

Yeah, I do. If you want information that's helpful, I don't know... But check out Frank Peretti's books. His viewpoint on demons is creepy to an extreme. :eek:

people keep mentioning the the 7days creation vs the 4.5billion years thing.

did it ever occur to anyone that a day to god could easily be 10000 lifetimes to us?

I mean a Day is based on how fast the planet rotates and a year is based on the planets orbit around the sun. so thats how a day and a year are measured for someone who lives on earth.

Whoever said god made earth his home though?

also for evolition Vs Adam and Eve. Their is no telling how long they spent in the garden, they could of very well spent an eternity their. living in innocent immortal bliss never happening on the snake of the tree until that one fateful day.

people may wonder why are genetics arent totally screwed from thousands of years of supposed in-breding, after all the only people Adam and eve's children had to marry, where they brothers and sisters. But that brings up The book of generations, and the story of the Nephilim. now the Nephilim were supposedly giants, but then again so was Golith. Is it so outrageous to believe that these "angels of god" that came to earth were in fact "Aliens" sent by god from one of his other worlds so as to diversify our genetic pool?
Or are we so arogant as to think god was only capable of creating one world as a supposed omnipotent being? I guess maybe we are, after all we pretty much did kill our own messiah.
I find it funny since that's what I've been taught during religion classes...
you just haven't thought through your ideas.
You might want to expand on that...

That has to be one of the most ludecrus argumenst I have ever heard.

Did God cause thebible to be writen so that it could understand it, or us?

Seems to me, that God could have made it's message to us clearer, that or the Bible is bullshit.

Of course it's bullshit. I thought that was a given. =)

Of course it's bullshit. I thought that was a given. =)

Yeah but not to the people who say ohhh 1 day to God means a 1000 days to us.

Becasue im young, I wasnt able to think through my ideas? sure ok. fine.

I'm 19. I'm fairly certain they said that based on something other than your age.

Yeah but not to the people who say ohhh 1 day to God means a 1000 days to us.

*shrugs* I find it pretty stupid god would take longer than a second to do it all. He's fucking GOD. It's not like he has energy to waste, that shit's infinite for him. If god were a computer, he could run Vista and a PS2 emulator at full speed if he had liquid cooling.

I find it funny since that's what I've been taught during religion classes...

You might want to expand on that...

Its very easy, the Bible says that God created the universe in 7 days. Now forgetting for a sec that time is measured for us by the sun, and lets just forget also that God is actualy beyond time.

The 7 days must mean 7 earth days as we humans would measure it. I mean the Bible is Gods message to us, so why the hell would God cause it to be written that the universe was created in 7 days if it actualy meant 10000s of years? It don't make sense, the Bible(aperantly) was written for us not for God.

*shrugs* I find it pretty stupid god would take longer than a second to do it all. He's fucking GOD. It's not like he has energy to waste, that shit's infinite for him. If god were a computer, he could run Vista and a PS2 emulator at full speed if he had liquid cooling.

Heheh yeah LET THERE BE LIGHT, ohhh damn I best make meself some coffe or summit why I wait.

The only demons that reside on earth are the monsters we have made of ourselves.

The only demons that reside on earth are the monsters we have made of ourselves.

Yeah but the whole schizophrenic god fighting himself with Earth caught in the middle thing is a better movie storyline.

No. I really don't believe in any of the supernatural.

why the hell would God cause it to be written that the universe was created in 7 days if it actualy meant 10000s of years?
It already causes so much controversion around the place that, besides, "6 days" makes people go more "God is so cool" than "10000+ years".

Yeah but the whole schizophrenic god fighting himself with Earth caught in the middle thing is a better movie storyline.

True, but then again I prefer the version in Memnoch The Devil, by Anne Rice.

It already causes so much controversion around the place that, besides, "6 days" makes people go more "God is so cool" than "10000+ years".

Yeah he spent 6 days actually doing the work, and one day resting.



Wait, resting? God was tired? Shit yeah! The almighty, all-knowing, all-powerful, omnipotent, omniscient being that rules over the universe was fucking exhausted. He was in bed, like, all day that seventh day.

When I'm neopagan I do.

What reason is there to believe in demons?

It would make scary movies a little better.

What reason is there to believe in demons?

When I first read the post I thought it said "Do you believe in Democrats". Kind of laughed when I read it the second time. Both answers however is no.

When I first read the post I thought it said "Do you believe in Democrats". Kind of laughed when I read it the second time. Both answers however is no.

Ha!

Meh, I don't really believe that Moses built the Ark either.

I remember someone at my old school who thought that it was Mozart who'd received the ten commandments on Mount Sinai.