NationStates Jolt Archive

Many of you may have watched south park tonight (wish I could link to it on youtube but Viacom hates freedom) but for those who don't know, butters was exposed as being bi-curious, and his father sent him to a camp where they would supposedly fix him. It opens with the camp leader bringing Butters to meet his "accountabillibuddy" his partner who is supposed to make sure that butters doesn't "slip up." and when he opens the door they see that butter's roommate has hanged himself. Every so often during the episode another boy in the camp commits suicide.
I post this because from things I've read this seems all too real, these camps do exist and the suicide rate of people who have gone through them is rather high. (I can't find the numbers at the moment, but if pressed I'll do some research later. the best I could find was here (http://www.religioustolerance.org/hom_exod1.htm))
personally the idea of these camps disgusts me, but what do you think?

Many of you may have watched south park tonight (wish I could link to it on youtube but Viacom hates freedom) but for those who don't know, butters was exposed as being bi-curious, and his father sent him to a camp where they would supposedly fix him.

Hilarious, especially since Butters' father is gay himself (http://www.rollingstone.com/news/story/13656546/rolling_stones_top_25_moments_from_south_park/20).

personally the idea of these camps disgusts me, but what do you think?

Meh, Christianity/religion. Nothing they stoop to surprises any more.

I would hate to think that such camps exist in Australia
I mean anything can happen in the US, after all - its the US
It kinda scares me
its totally wrong and i dont think religion should play apart in this matter at all
i mean god loves everyone (so i have heard)
its not like he doesnt love gay people
Or does he ... ???
gay emoticons > :fluffle: :eek: <god
:fluffle: :sniper:

From the sounds of this South Park episode, which I have yet to see, it sounds like the movie, But I'm a Cheerleader (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/But_I'm_a_Cheerleader), except the movie is pure satire.

Apparently God's decided that forcing people into situations where they kill themselves is less sinful and reprehensible than continuing to have homosexuals in society.

I'm glad we cleared that one up, you asshole. :upyours: @ God.

personally the idea of these camps disgusts me, but what do you think?You're not going to find someone on NS General (at least not among the currently active posters) who will think differently.

Which is saying quite a bit, really.

Apparently God's decided that forcing people into situations where they kill themselves is less sinful and reprehensible than continuing to have homosexuals in society.

I'm glad we cleared that one up, you asshole. :upyours: @ God.
This is strange coming from an Agnostic but, you know, no matter if there is a God or not, that God is *not* the one who's doing these things. We are.

Meh, America is a big place, it's bound to have a considerable amount of stupid people.

This is strange coming from an Agnostic but, you know, no matter if there is a God or not, that God is *not* the one who's doing these things. We are.

I can't help being angry about this. At the people who are crazy enough to take their faith to its most extreme distortion. I doubt Christ would've been for this in any way. This thing is nothing better than a reeducation camp.

However, if there is a God, I hope he's got asked for a special place in hell for these people.

And Ted Haggard objected to his portrayal in Jesus Camp?

Meh, America is a big place, it's bound to have a considerable amount of stupid people.

Add in that failing grades hurt people's feelings...

You're not going to find someone on NS General (at least not among the currently active posters) who will think differently.

Which is saying quite a bit, really.

Nah, one new guy. PootWaddle. He seems to have some...interesting (By which I mean, borderline trollish.) Might disagree.

Whats your point exactly? Are you expecting people to actually be for these crazy brainwash camps?

Um...well there are people that are for these camps, or at least reparative therapy. Which is what the episode was satirizing.

Of course no one will say they are for camps that lead to people killing themselves, but I'm sure there are plenty of people out there who support things like "pray the gay away." Particularly people who think gays are evil and choose to be gay.

They should be banned.

We need to fully abandon the disgusting authoritarian notion that parents should be permitted more or less free reign in raising children.

Nah, one new guy. PootWaddle. He seems to have some...interesting (By which I mean, borderline trollish.) Might disagree.

I wasn't even in this thread... and you're bringing me into it? :rolleyes: But fine, whatever, I’ll bite.

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Perhaps someone would like to explain what part of sending their kids off to specific camps for specific topics is 'wrong?'


Substance abuse recovery Teen Camp
http://www.camprecovery.com/

Brat Camp
http://www.aspeneducationgroup.com/bratcamp/index.html

Lose Weight and get Healthy, Teen Camp
http://www.campshane.com/fat-camp.htm

Troubled Teen (disciplinary problems) Boot Camp
http://www.teenbootcamps.us/boot.htm


I personally don't see a lot wrong with the concept. Focused on specific issues, or general camping, what’s the difference?

No, no. I meant you'd probably show up and come out in favor of these camps. And lo and behold, you did.

It was more of an observation (That if you posted you would probably favor these) then an attempt to get you to post.

all the south park episodes online:

http://www.southparkzone.com/index.php

i don't think the one you listed is there. must be too new

all the south park episodes online:

http://www.southparkzone.com/index.php

i don't think the one you listed is there. must be too new

I prefer: Parked South (http://www.parkedsouth.com).

It has up to the first episode of season 11 posted, and is good about updating listings.

I wasn't even in this thread... and you're bringing me into it? :rolleyes: But fine, whatever, I’ll bite.

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Perhaps someone would like to explain what part of sending their kids off to specific camps for specific topics is 'wrong?'


Substance abuse recovery Teen Camp
http://www.camprecovery.com/

Brat Camp
http://www.aspeneducationgroup.com/bratcamp/index.html

Lose Weight and get Healthy, Teen Camp
http://www.campshane.com/fat-camp.htm

Troubled Teen (disciplinary problems) Boot Camp
http://www.teenbootcamps.us/boot.htm


I personally don't see a lot wrong with the concept. Focused on specific issues, or general camping, what’s the difference?

While I would personally disagree with these camps as well, the anti gay camps have a level of psychological horror they can't match. Gay is not something that can be cured, so brainwashing people into believing that they are abominations against God and that they must be "fixed" when doing so is impossible leads almost inevitably to depression and often suicide.

Yes, let's pray.

Pie Jesu Domine, dona eis requiem. *slams a book into his forehead*

While I would personally disagree with these camps as well, the anti gay camps have a level of psychological horror they can't match. Gay is not something that can be cured, so brainwashing people into believing that they are abominations against God and that they must be "fixed" when doing so is impossible leads almost inevitably to depression and often suicide.

I've heard that 'gay' people are more likely to commit suicide in countries like Denmark and Sweden as well as in Amercia. IF so, then what do the camps have to do with it?

I've heard that 'gay' people are more likely to commit suicide in countries like Denmark and Sweden as well as in Amercia. IF so, then what do the camps have to do with it?

Have you considered why they commit suicide? Might it have something to do with social pressures, hatred and bigotry? Might it have something to do with oppression?

Might not amplifying that bigotry and oppression by sticking a young man or woman in a camp where they are forced to change who they are not increase the likelihood they'd be driven to an unfortunate end?

Have you considered why they commit suicide? Might it have something to do with social pressures, hatred and bigotry? Might it have something to do with oppression?

Might not amplifying that bigotry and oppression by sticking a young man or woman in a camp where they are forced to change who they are not increase the likelihood they'd be driven to an unfortunate end?

Does that apply to ALL suicides or just homosexual suicides? Why would homosexual suicides be different than other heterosexual suicides? I would have guessed that clinical depression was the most likely cause of suicides regardless of sexual orientation.

The question should be asked, what is it about homosexuals physiology that makes them more susceptible to clinical depression?

Does that apply to ALL suicides or just homosexual suicides? Why would homosexual suicides be different than other heterosexual suicides? I would have guessed that clinical depression was the most likely cause of suicides regardless of sexual orientation.

The question should be asked, what is it about homosexuals physiology that makes them more susceptible to clinical depression?

Heterosexuals are not persecuted due to sexual preference. That is the difference, and that is why homosexuals are more likely to be driven to suicide.

Well fat people kill themselves because they can't stop eating so it's to be expected that there will be at least a few gay people that kill themselves because they can't stop having buttsex.

Sure it's a shame that they couldn't be saved, but on the bright side it's one less faggot in the world. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Heterosexuals are not persecuted due to sexual preference. That is the difference, and that is why homosexuals are more likely to be driven to suicide.

You skipped the relevant aspect of the question... WHY do heterosexual commit suicide then IF the cause of suicide is persecution by the general public... The common denominator is clinical depression, not persecution.

Well fat people kill themselves because they can't stop eating so it's to be expected that there will be at least a few gay people that kill themselves because they can't stop having buttsex.

Sure it's a shame that they couldn't be saved, but on the bright side it's one less faggot in the world. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
Is it easy living with all that hate?
You skipped the relevant aspect of the question... WHY do heterosexual commit suicide then IF the cause of suicide is persecution by the general public... The common denominator is clinical depression, not persecution.

I didn't notice anyone saying that persecution by the general public is the only cause of suicide among homosexuals....

Ok, see THIS is what people need to do when they're being facetious.

See those smileys? That's how I knew he was kidding.

But seriously I don't see why you people are so nice to gays but yet you still hate incest and animal to human bestiality. That's just plain hypocracy.

Well fat people kill themselves because they can't stop eating so it's to be expected that there will be at least a few gay people that kill themselves because they can't stop having buttsex.

Sure it's a shame that they couldn't be saved, but on the bright side it's one less faggot in the world. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Ok, see THIS is what people need to do when they're being facetious.

See those smileys? That's how I knew he was kidding.

We need to fully abandon the disgusting authoritarian notion that parents should be permitted more or less free reign in raising children.
Here, here!

I was lucky in my parentage, but I've known far too many people whose lives were ruined by their parents, not because of neglect or traditional abuse, but because of the idiocy and ignorance that was hammered into them.

Ok, see THIS is what people need to do when they're being facetious.

See those smileys? That's how I knew he was kidding.

I wasn't so sure....I can't help but assume the worst from posters I'm not familiar with. Well, from the ones who post shit like that at least.

But seriously I don't see why you people are so nice to gays but yet you still hate incest and animal to human bestiality. That's just plain hypocracy.
How exactly is homosexuality like incest or beastiality?


There's been many incest threads, a good few people don't have a problem with it. I don't think we've had anyone advocate beastiality though. At least not that I recall.

Here, here!

I was lucky in my parentage, but I've known far too many people whose lives were ruined by their parents, not because of neglect or traditional abuse, but because of the idiocy and ignorance that was hammered into them.

Oh yes, let's start legislating how our children are to be raised immediately. Hell we might as well have the government decide who we marry while they're at it. Then they can take our children and raise them in government camps to make sure stupid parents don't corrupt them with their crazy ideas.

How exactly is homosexuality like incest or beastiality?

It's sex perversion that people justify as being "love between consenting individuals" By that logic people should be allowed to be fucked by their siblings or a horse if they want.

Well fat people kill themselves because they can't stop eating so it's to be expected that there will be at least a few gay people that kill themselves because they can't stop having buttsex.

Sure it's a shame that they couldn't be saved, but on the bright side it's one less faggot in the world. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Aaaaaaaaaand IGNORE!

It's sex perversion that people justify as being "love between consenting individuals" By that logic people should be allowed to be fucked by their siblings or a horse if they want.

So I take it you must be against interracial sex as well?

Oh yes, let's start legislating how our children are to be raised immediately. Hell we might as well have the government decide who we marry while they're at it. Then they can take our children and raise them in government camps to make sure stupid parents don't corrupt them with their crazy ideas.
That's one of the most ridiculous slippery slope arguments I've seen in quite a while.
It's sex perversion that people justify as being "love between consenting individuals" By that logic people should be allowed to be fucked by their siblings or a horse if they want.
I think you'll find that most rational people couldn't give a flying fuck about the morality of other people's consensual sex.
Your definition of sexual perversion is much different than mine and both of ours are sure to differ from others. There is no universally accepted determinate for it.

But seriously I don't see why you people are so nice to gays but yet you still hate incest and animal to human bestiality. That's just plain hypocracy.

The criterion for me is consent.

Incest can be consensual, and when it is, genuinely, I have no objection to it.

Beastiality is not consensual, and thus I oppose it.

Here, here!

I was lucky in my parentage, but I've known far too many people whose lives were ruined by their parents, not because of neglect or traditional abuse, but because of the idiocy and ignorance that was hammered into them.

Children are not property. Not even "sort of" property. They must be treated as persons with rights, by both parents and the state.

Oh yes, let's start legislating how our children are to be raised immediately.

That is not the only alternative available to break parental power.

It's sex perversion that people justify as being "love between consenting individuals"

It is love between consenting individuals.

By that logic people should be allowed to be fucked by their siblings or a horse if they want.

How could a horse consent to a sexual act?

Children are not property. Not even "sort of" property. They must be treated as persons with rights, by both parents and the state.Why would a state be needed? That's just throwing bad authoritarianism after more bad authoritarianism.That is not the only alternative available to break parental power.I'm glad we agree.How could a horse consent to a sexual act?Mr. Ed?

Why would a state be needed? That's just throwing bad authoritarianism after more bad authoritarianism.

Indeed, but my statement was focused on children's rights, not the most appropriate forms of political organization. :)

Does that apply to ALL suicides or just homosexual suicides? Why would homosexual suicides be different than other heterosexual suicides? I would have guessed that clinical depression was the most likely cause of suicides regardless of sexual orientation.

Most likely, yes. The only cause? Not at all.

And what causes clinical depression? In some cases, you have hereditary factors. Sometimes it seems to have to do with melatonin production. In neither of these cases to we have any evidence that homosexuals are likely to have a higher incidence.

Some medical conditions can cause it, but there is nothing inherent in homosexuality that makes a person more likely to get these conditions.

And, from there, we get into life experiences and psychological factors derived from them. Heterosexuals are certainly not immune to adverse experiences that can contribute to clinical depression, but there's one they don't have to worry about - being ostracized, demonized, and treated poorly by society simply because they are heterosexual.

The question should be asked, what is it about homosexuals physiology that makes them more susceptible to clinical depression?

Do you have evidence that they are more susceptible to clinical depression? Unless you have said evidence, asking that question is rather pointless, as you wouldn't have any reason to believe that they are.

Meanwhile, even if homosexuals do have a higher occurrence of clinical depression, that depression is still caused by something - and it isn't necessarily a physiological difference. The stress that a bigoted society places upon homosexuals, as well as the low self-esteem such treatment can cause would most likely be a major factor in inducing clinical depression.

what about the penguins, there have been problems in zoos in scandinavia where their captive penguin populations wont breed and instead have homosexual relationships. this ontop of many other similar occurences with animals throughout history, from lab animals to wild bonobos (pygmy chimps),
has lead many people to believe that one explanation for homosexuality is a response to over crowding in a population. of course many gay human couples would like children but thats because we are a ridiculously complecated beast.
so in my humble opinion if homosexuality is another genetic response and something that cant be grown out of, and if god still doesnt like it, god can f**k off!