NationStates Jolt Archive

Who here is a Veteran or is serving? I am and I served in the Army.

Just looking for some comrades to swap stories with.

Nah, I'm allergic to bullets, especially when they're entering my body at high speeds.

In the immortal words of daffy duck "I'm allergic to pain, it hurts me"

Wanted to, but I'm 4F (Or whatever the designation is now).

Not me, no... I'm only 16 (in two weeks). Both my grandfather's were in the Army, the living one for 21 years (48-69). Three of my uncles were, 1 was in Nam, the others a few years after. My cousin was also in Nam... and come to think of it, I had a great/great-great? uncle who served in Europe in WWII.

It goes farther back than that, that's just all I'm familiar with.

I got served once...that counts right?

I was served the other night by a very nice young waiter. I think my order was a plate of chips and a Coke. Very prompt and polite he was.

I'm afraid not. My uncle and grandfathers did, however, in Vietnam and WWII respectively.

Interestingly enough, one of them served in Europe and the other in the Pacific although I don't know if it were simultaneous or not. Unfortunately, my grandfather who served in Europe died in 1995 and I was too young to ask him. Maybe there are still some records out there that I could check but I don't know for sure.

Nah, I'm allergic to bullets, especially when they're entering my body at high speeds.

The good news is the bullet won't stay in your body long enough for your body to develop a fatal allergic reaction to it if its going fast enough.

And if it isn't going fast enough, well by then you probally won't care.

I'm afraid not. My uncle and grandfathers did, however, in Vietnam and WWII respectively.

Interestingly enough, one of them served in Europe and the other in the Pacific although I don't know if it were simultaneous or not. Unfortunately, my grandfather who served in Europe died in 1995 and I was too young to ask him. Maybe there are still some records out there that I could check but I don't know for sure.

From what I heard, the military keeps records and it would not be surprising if you could look for them and actually have them from that far back or even further.

From what I heard, the military keeps records and it would not be surprising if you could look for them and actually have them from that far back or even further.

Actually, a lot of the records from the WWII era were destroyed in a fire (1973 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1973_National_Archives_Fire)).

Which is why I keep my DD214 & other important paperwork in a safety deposit box.

US Army, 1993-1997. 101st Airborne.

My father served for 33 years, my mother served for 6! An Uncle on my mom's side was in the Marines (May he rest in peace)!

Many of my relatives served in the military.

Actually, a lot of the records from the WWII era were destroyed in a fire (1973 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1973_National_Archives_Fire)).

Which is why I keep my DD214 & other important paperwork in a safety deposit box.

US Army, 1993-1997. 101st Airborne.

My roommate's close friend is in 101 Airborne!

My roommate's close friend is in 101 Airborne!

Rakkasan, by chance?

You couldn't pay me to bear arms and kill people. Sorry, not my thing. I value life over national borders anyday.

Actually, a lot of the records from the WWII era were destroyed in a fire (1973 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1973_National_Archives_Fire)).

Which is why I keep my DD214 & other important paperwork in a safety deposit box.

US Army, 1993-1997. 101st Airborne.

Really, where were you stationed at?

Happend to be in Korea by any chance?

got a half brother in the USMC

Rakkasan, by chance?

No. Don't remember his name. He is a sniper school grad, though.

Both my grandparents were in the military, my dad was a Navy Corpsman stationed with the Marines, and my great-grandfather piloted a Higgins Boat in the Pacific Theater. Right now, I have no desire to join the military, and if I ever did, it would be in the Marines.

No. Don't remember his name. He is a sniper school grad, though.

LOL, no, 'Rakkasan' refers to the Task Force; essentially the 3rd of 3 brigades in the 101st. I wasn't asking if his name was Rakkasan. Although I admit that it was a poorly phrased question. I could have put it in a better context.

I did my time as an MP mostly on active duty.

Father and both grandfathers were in the service, vietnam, korea and ww2 respectively.

I intend to join the foreign service eventually.

United States Air Force / SSgt
I got out almost two years ago.

I got out a million years ago, after only four years duty.... US Navy, 2 sea service ribbons, 2 battle E's, 1 Navy Expeditionary Ribbon, 1 Good service Medal, 1 Armed Forces Expeditionary Medal...

They said, Join the Navy, see the world, it's not just a Job, it's an adventure...

So I joined, I saw it (and found out it's mostly water), and I have to agree it's not just a Job (it's indentured servitude, one step up from slavery) and the adventure was everyday (in wondering what nasty ass horrible job they could assign to you next :p ) But I wouldn't trade my memories away now, glad I did it then (in hindsight, I hated it then... ).

Paternal Grandfather was an Armorer in the Air Force during the Korean conflict. Father was in the AFROTC, went though pilot training, and flew EF-111 Ravens in the first Gulf War. I will be attending the Air Force Academy this summer, so that makes me at least the 3rd generation of my family to serve in the Air Forces.

And I'm fairly sure that ancestors on my Father's side served in the Army of the Cumberland during the American Civil War.

Served in the active Army 1986-1991. Gulf War veteran.

My grandfather joined WW2 as soon as he was old enough to volunteer. He fought against Russians in the Karelian Isthmus. He is the only one of my relatives, who is a war veteran, although all of my adult male relatives have military training. We have conscription around here, so every man must go to the army or do some unarmed service :) . I myself am an artillery spotter.

I have considered joining the UN peacekeepers once I graduate from university, if I'm not too old by then.

USAF, currently awaiting training, and will be for the next 5 months.

I served for 2 years, 00-02, from the age of 18 to 20, i'm in the reserves now.

No, but I will have to eventually, thanks to my country's mandatory military service rules (I'm from Singapore).

We've a draft, so most men have served. I was smart enough to get out of it (manipulating their psychologist was surprisingly easy), but I have to admit military budget cutbacks helped. Veterans? Those are for countries that still wage wars...

I got drafted, conscientiously objected, and served my country and community as a paramedic in the German Red Cross and held the equivalent rank of payment like a Hauptgefreiter (believe it's Lance Corporal?).

The last people in my family to have been in the army were my grandfathers, heroically promoting the benefits of the 3rd Reich to all those poor misguided people in Eastern Europe. I hate their guts for it.

I'm very proud of both my brothers, as they both chose to do civilian service rather than the mandatory time in the German army. One worked in a retirement home for a year, the other in a workshop for severely handicapped people.
Now, if anybody "served", it was them. :)

I served in the Dutch army about a year before they abolished conscription.
Darn, had I just managed to stretch my study for one more year... :( ;)

Amazing how easily I could manipulate them into giving me an office job at Army Personnel, instead of having to act as if they'd ever be able to make a soldier out of me. :p

My grandfather served in the RAF as an engineer in WWII, don't know anymore details than that other than a few stories he told. I have no intention of ever joining the armed forces, and I reject the idea of conscription.

The last people in my family to have been in the army were my grandfathers, heroically promoting the benefits of the 3rd Reich to all those poor misguided people in Eastern Europe. I hate their guts for it.

But, but, the military is good! The military is great! We must fellate them at every step of the way!

You are actually suggesting that I fellate my GRANDFATHERS? :eek:

That's a bit sick, even for you :p

Hey, don't blame me for the sickening effects that are always the result nationalism. You put shit in, you get processed shit out.

But, but, the military is good! The military is great! We must fellate them at every step of the way!

You are actually suggesting that I fellate my GRANDFATHERS? :eek:

That's a bit sick, even for you :p

Great Grandfather (mother's side): Still carries shrapnel in his ankle from Belgium during WWI.
Grandfather (mother's side): Killed in Vietnam
Grandfather (father's side): Plane Mechanic in WWII
Great Uncle (father's side): Killed in Iwo Jima
Father: Dishonorably Discharged after a week of service :p
Brother: Joining the Marines
Me: No thanks.

i joined the air force as a cooperative consciencous objector to get out of being drafted into the army back during viet nam. and i never got shipped out of the continental united states. so it worked out ok. they even taught me a little about e.c.m., such as it existed at that time.

i'd have been happier and prouder to have become a canadian citizen instead. and i'd still most likely be there, or someplace other then the u.s. at any rate if i had.

but yes, i was in the damd u.s. military, just long enough, and with a fully honorable, to insure i would never be drafted or threatened with being drafted again, unless they got despirate enough to start drafting politicians and their grand mothers too.

i was not proud of america then and i'm even less so now, but no one can accuse me of not having paid THAT 'dues'!

(and i never went awol once, unlike a certain president who spent most of his military career in that condition!)

=^^=
.../\...

I'm a U.S. Navy veteran. I served as an Electronic Warfare Technician on an aircraft carrier. My primary job was to protect the ship from incoming missiles. It's a job I never had to do, but I had to be(and was) the best at it that I could be. And forgive me for blowing my own horn, but my best is pretty damn good. :)

I'm a U.S. Navy veteran. I served as an Electronic Warfare Technician on an aircraft carrier. My primary job was to protect the ship from incoming missiles. It's a job I never had to do, but I had to be(and was) the best at it that I could be. And forgive me for blowing my own horn, but my best is pretty damn good. :)

And I bet your radar jammers were straight out of Spaceballs? ;)

And I bet your radar jammers were straight out of Spaceballs? ;)

If I had my way, they would have been. :)

My father was in the navy, my uncle in the army, and so was my cousin.

I am not, nor will I likely ever be, in the military.

Jello, I served, and I believe that most should not.

I actually prefer a volunteer military. It's not for everyone.I can definitely see the value in only having people who want to be in the military in the military, as they're more likely to do their jobs well.

If there was a war worth fighting, I'd consider joining, but there most likely won't be.

My father was in the navy, my uncle in the army, and so was my cousin.

I am not, nor will I likely ever be, in the military.

Jello, I served, and I believe that most should not.

I actually prefer a volunteer military. It's not for everyone.

I'm a U.S. Navy veteran. I served as an Electronic Warfare Technician on an aircraft carrier. My primary job was to protect the ship from incoming missiles. It's a job I never had to do, but I had to be(and was) the best at it that I could be. And forgive me for blowing my own nose, but my best is pretty damn good. :)
I can picture it clearly now:

"You've got four bogies heading toward you!"
[LG sneezes on the radar screen]
"Oh my God, a dozen more of them! And a blimp, a big, shiny blimp and it's slowly moving south!"

I can picture it clearly now:

"You've got four bogies heading toward you!"
[LG sneezes on the radar screen]
"Oh my God, a dozen more of them! And a blimp, a big, shiny blimp and it's slowly moving south!"

I don't have a clue what you're talkin' about, Phil. Not a fucking clue. I have a shell the size of a fist in my head. Pork Chop Hill. The only way I can make this goddamn toupee to stay on is by magnetizing the entire upper left quadrant of my skull, so you just go ahead and do what you do.

USN, retired.
Father, USN retired after 36 years.
Brother, Army 2 tours.
Brother-in-law#1, Army, 12 years.
Brother-in-law#2, Navy, retired, 20years.
Brother-in-law#3, Navy going on 30 years.
Ex-Father-in-law, Navy retired after 30.
And none of us were drafted.

I don't have a clue what you're talkin' about, Phil. Not a fucking clue. I have a shell the size of a fist in my head. Pork Chop Hill. The only way I can make this goddamn toupee to stay on is by magnetizing the entire upper left quadrant of my skull, so you just go ahead and do what you do.
Nice to meet you, Admiral Benson! ;)

I can picture it clearly now:

"You've got four bogies heading toward you!"
[LG sneezes on the radar screen]
"Oh my God, a dozen more of them! And a blimp, a big, shiny blimp and it's slowly moving south!"

YAY! :D

Nice to meet you, Admiral Benson! ;)

God, that's loud. My ear canals are very sensitive. They're stainless steel. Took a bullet in Corregidor. Passed straight through.

I'm currently serving in the US Navy as a Master-at-Arms. I just took the 3rd Class exam today and am a bit nervous about the results.

I guess I am lucky in many senses.

I'm currently serving in the US Navy as a Master-at-Arms. I just took the 3rd Class exam today and am a bit nervous about the results.

You lucky dog. I was an infantryman, and unlike the rustpickers, I didn't have a real bed to sleep in, nor a regular shower.

Can't you smell it?

I was a 19D from 2000-2004. I was in 1-37AR 1AD for 2 years and RHHT, 3dACR in OIF1.

YAY! :D
:fluffle: That's what came to my mind upon reading your post. :p
God, that's loud. My ear canals are very sensitive. They're stainless steel. Took a bullet in Corregidor. Passed straight through.
The best scene ever when he cleans his ears!!!
You lucky dog. I was an infantryman, and unlike the rustpickers, I didn't have a real bed to sleep in, nor a regular shower.
Can't you smell it?
Well, off with you! http://www.studip.uni-goettingen.de/pictures/smile/baden2.gif
I was a 19D from 2000-2004. I was in 1-37AR 1AD for 2 years and RHHT, 3dACR in OIF1.
You need to check your keyboard... :eek:;):D

Rakkasan, by chance?

I was with the 506th of the 101st in Iraq back in end of 2005 begining of 2006.

LOL, no, 'Rakkasan' refers to the Task Force; essentially the 3rd of 3 brigades in the 101st. I wasn't asking if his name was Rakkasan. Although I admit that it was a poorly phrased question. I could have put it in a better context.

Actually the 101st has like 4 Brigades now at least for the 2005-2006 deployment they had a 4th, the 506th was with the 4th Brigade or at leastthe 1st Bn of the 506th was I was with them at combat outpost on the north side of Ramadi.

Rakkasan was in Tikrit during the depoyment Because I was on a checkpoint in Tikrit when they moved in to take it over and I got sent to Al-Anbar province to combat outpost.

Actually the 101st has like 4 Brigades now at least for the 2005-2006 deployment they had a 4th, the 506th was with the 4th Brigade or at leastthe 1st Bn of the 506th was I was with them at combat outpost on the north side of Ramadi.

502nd (Strike Force). 2nd Batt.

I have served 5 years regular army and 10 so far with the guard I have been a 67/15 U which is a helicopter crew chief, a 45 K which is tank turret work , but I actually work on everything in that series field which is weapons systems from side arms to heavey artillery and even the electronic systems, and I was an 11H which was T.O.W. Inf. 3 man teams that took on tanks with hummers or on foot.

I have served in Korea, Iraq, done time in Germany, and been all over the US for training, and duty stations.

US Marine Corps, 1982 - 1990. Spent 90% of it guarding embassies.

Father: Australian Occupation Force, Japan, during Korean War.

Grandfather: Western Front, WWI; Kokoda Trail, WW2, with my two older uncles.

Mother and Grandmother: Supply Office, Seattle Naval Yards, Vietnam War.

Brother in Law: US Navy, 1978 - 1998.

My family has a long history of service. We're not always on the front lines, but we do what we can.

We've a draft, so most men have served. I was smart enough to get out of it (manipulating their psychologist was surprisingly easy), but I have to admit military budget cutbacks helped.

What are you trying to say? That if you remove the bravest and strongest and most adventurest swedes from from the breeding stock of the country and then keep removing them every generation for a thousand years, the people that never left Sweden will have a higher chance of being people that don't like the military, like you? Interesting.

Veterans? Those are for countries that still wage wars...

Ah, well, we can still depend on Sweden then...

...Sweden has been slowly playing an increased role in international operations, including NATO operations in Kosovo (KFOR) and Afghanistan (the International Security Assistance Force).

As of 2007-02-11, Swedish soldiers are present in the following countries

Liberia
Congo
Sudan
Ethiopia
Eritrea
Lebanon
Bosnia
Kosovo
Afghanistan
Kashmir (border between India and Pakistan)
Korea
Sweden has registered about 15 units in the rapid respone unit catalogs of the EU, UN, or NATO. Sweden takes an active part in international exercises such as the Multi National Experiment run by the USJFCOM.

Sweden is framework nation for the Nordic Battle Group, one of the European Union Battlegroups that will be active during the first half of 2008. It is expected that this will be repeated again in 2011. link (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_history_of_Sweden)

Looks like Sweden still wages war.

I still don't get why people are posting about whether their relations have served or not.

The good news is the bullet won't stay in your body long enough for your body to develop a fatal allergic reaction to it if its going fast enough.

And if it isn't going fast enough, well by then you probally won't care.

You really have no idea how allergic I am to bullets.

I still don't get why people are posting about whether their relations have served or not.

You really have no idea how allergic I am to bullets.

Even if you don't get shot, what are you going to use? A bayonet?

My father served for 33 years, my mother served for 6! An Uncle on my mom's side was in the Marines (May he rest in peace)!

Many of my relatives served in the military.

Is your Dad back home now?

Is your Dad back home now?

Been home for sometime now. He retired last October.

You really have no idea how allergic I am to bullets.

Nah, he just doesn't have a sense of humour. It's pretty common in some groups...

Been home for sometime now. He retired last October.

Good for him- 33 years is a long,long time-thats a lot of service.

marine reservist

No, but I will have to eventually, thanks to my country's mandatory military service rules (I'm from Singapore).

Service guarantees citizenship.

http://img83.imageshack.us/img83/1816/emotcolbertfd6.gif

I too was a waiter once. Comrade!

Good for him- 33 years is a long,long time-thats a lot of service.

Yes it was. It has been difficult but it was worth it.

Even if you don't get shot, what are you going to use? A bayonet?

Nah, he just doesn't have a sense of humour. It's pretty common in some groups...

Yes, I've noticed that......

No, and I've better things to do than to go back five generations listing everyone in my family who might have done.

After all, we do go to the pub a lot.;)

Not me. I'd run if conscripted too.

I did a short stint in the reserves as a 031 (infantard, and I wear that name with pride after the little tv incident on the bus coming back from our annual 10 day exercise). I'm going regular army now, either infantry, or maybe as an officer (again, hopefully infantry). I'm hoping to get in with the RCR (Royal Canadian Regiment), but apparently my girlfriend's cousin (a medic with the 82nd airborne) knows people up there, and now I apparently have my own little welcoming committee awaiting my arrival.

Not me. I'd run if conscripted too.

Wow...now there's a shocker. :rolleyes:

Wow...now there's a shocker. :rolleyes:

Well, oddly enough - if I was conscripted, I'd refuse to go.

I joined up of my own free will. I considered the options, and made a free and informed choice.

I knew that I was giving up many of the freedoms in my life. I couldn't talk back to my superiors, or live wherever I liked, or change jobs easily. I accepted this, and agreed to it, as I did the slim but real chance of being killed in action.

As a free man, I can choose to give those things up. As a conscript, I would have no choice.

Many conscripts served very honorably in WWII and Korea. But by Vietnam we saw the downside - people who didn't want to be there, and who didn't give a damn about winning anything or saving anything except their own skin. And why should they? They didn't believe the war had any meaning. And they were right.

A conscript is, in may ways, a slave in uniform. Many such did very well - the Janissarries were one of the most effective fighting forces in history. But I cannot condone such activity in the modern US.

I served in the Army 1990 - 1998. Two years active and six in reserves. Honorably discharged. I am fond of the memories, but I wouldn't do it again.

Service guarantees citizenship.

http://img83.imageshack.us/img83/1816/emotcolbertfd6.gif
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y223/GermanNightmare/sst_bot2b.gif (http://www.moviewavs.com/0028375953/MP3S/Movies/Starship_Troopers/more.mp3)
_Would you like
_to know more?

Wow...now there's a shocker. :rolleyes:

Why do you hate my freedom?

<snip>

QFT.

Why do you hate my freedom?


I don't hate your freedom. I do, however, sneer at your cowardice.

I don't hate your freedom. I do, however, sneer at your cowardice.

And if Progressica, as myself, has moral or ethical objections to conscription?

Who here is a Veteran or is serving? I am and I served in the Army.

Just looking for some comrades to swap stories with.

Good for you! I'll be joining the military as soon as possible.

~ Romandeos.

Actually the 101st has like 4 Brigades now at least for the 2005-2006 deployment they had a 4th, the 506th was with the 4th Brigade or at leastthe 1st Bn of the 506th was I was with them at combat outpost on the north side of Ramadi.

Rakkasan was in Tikrit during the depoyment Because I was on a checkpoint in Tikrit when they moved in to take it over and I got sent to Al-Anbar province to combat outpost.


Yeah, I forgot about the 506th. They were assigned to the 101st in 2005 as part of the movement towards a more modular army. The first few times I heard them mentioned as being in the 101st, I always thought it was a typo (it's 502, not 506 !!).

Thanks for the reminder. :)

And if Progressica, as myself, has moral or ethical objections to conscription?

I personally wouldn't want someone that I depended on that couldn't morally pull the trigger. Not everyone can do it. However there is supply clerks and paper pushers back home. There is a spot for everyone regardless of your moral dilemmas. If you are drafted you do have an obligation in my opinion.

I served for 4 days in the Guards Jäger (roughly equivalent to ranger although not considered special forces) regiment, 1st company, 3rd mortar platoon. All 4 days of that on HSL (henkilökohtainen syyloma - on leave for personal reasons). I challenge anyone to do better. :)

Nice to meetcha, fellow warrior.

Joona

I personally wouldn't want someone that I depended on that couldn't morally pull the trigger. Not everyone can do it. However there is supply clerks and paper pushers back home. There is a spot for everyone regardless of your moral dilemmas. If you are drafted you do have an obligation in my opinion.

Life is beautiful. We take it for granted, we really do. Me, personally, I would not waste it in a war, unless my country was a victim of a direct, military attack, on our turf no less. Call it cowardice if you will. Vietnam, Iraq, Korea...these are wars that, if I were to be conscripted, I would've dodged. And that's because I don't take life for granted.

A conscript is, in may ways, a slave in uniform.

Many ways? Conscription is in ALL ways slavery. It has no place in any civilized society.

Really, where were you stationed at?

Happend to be in Korea by any chance?

Sorry, I must have missed your question earlier.

No, I never went to Korea. I lucked out on that. :D

I spent all my time in the 101st @ Ft. Campbell, KY (which is really in TN, but that's a whole 'nother story...)

No.

I personally wouldn't want someone that I depended on that couldn't morally pull the trigger. Not everyone can do it. However there is supply clerks and paper pushers back home. There is a spot for everyone regardless of your moral dilemmas. If you are drafted you do have an obligation in my opinion.

No. Even paper pushers or supply clerks or whatever are still directly facilitating the war.

I don't hate your freedom. I do, however, sneer at your cowardice.

I'd congratulate him for refusing to kill. But that's just me, you know, with those weird ideas about human dignity and all.

Not sure about my great grandfathers (Ithink one was on the eastern front, not sure about the rest).

Grandfather 1: Served in the german navy (WW2), got a cushy position in it.
Grandfather 2: Not sure what he did during the war (WW2) but he became a diplomat after so he must have been some kind of diplomat-in-waiting, probably something cushy.

If I had to joined the military I would want to follow in their footsteps; get a really cushy job.

And if Progressica, as myself, has moral or ethical objections to conscription?

Well, I wouldn't want you serving with me if you didn't want to be there.

You would just get yourself, and probably the rest of us killed.

If you somehow managed to survive, I'm sure you wouldn't want that on your conscience.

Well, I wouldn't want you serving with me if you didn't want to be there.

You would just get yourself, and probably the rest of us killed.

If you somehow managed to survive, I'm sure you wouldn't want that on your conscience.

Funnily, enough, you just about perfectly replicated what I said to a guy I served with. We were discussing whether conscription was a good idea. He was a Singaporean immigrant, and believed in it.

No. Even paper pushers or supply clerks or whatever are still directly facilitating the war.

Paying taxes to the federal government does that. There really is no way that you could live in a nation that is at war and not contribute to the conducting of that war somehow.

Funnily, enough, you just about perfectly replicated what I said to a guy I served with. We were discussing whether conscription was a good idea. He was a Singaporean immigrant, and believed in it.

Conscription is a bad idea.

Either someone wants to be a soldier, or they don't.

If they don't, then they'll suck as a soldier.

Either someone wants to be a professional soldier (just to be one), or they feel some patriotic urge to defend their nation (if not their government), or they feel a need to join a cause (such as some who joined immediately after 9/11).

A lot of people have no interest in professional soldiering, and are as far from believing in defending their own country or soil or government as the Earth is from the Andromeda Galaxy. They also feel no need to involve themselves in causes the military may be acting in, because they either don't care, have no interest, or are actually rooting for the other team.

A lot of schools in our volunteer Army are designed to weed out people who just don't want to be there. The schools themselves aren't that hard (Airborne school, for example) - if you survive 5 jumps, you're there. But people will fall out on the morning runs, or feign injury, etc. The school is designed to weed out those who REALLY don't want to do it.

Both of my grandfathers were military, as well as my dad, his brother (my uncle), his sister (my aunt), and a number of cousins. Nearly all of them literally begged me not to go that direction. My dad and my grandfather (dad's side) went as far as to tell me that they'd pay form my entire ride through college if I didn't.

Paying taxes to the federal government does that. There really is no way that you could live in a nation that is at war and not contribute to the conducting of that war somehow.

Yeah, I realise that. But I'd feel a hell of a lot less guilty by paying taxes, a small percentage of which might go to buy a gun, than I would firing that gun or working in the office that handles the distribution of that gun etc.

I've served...















beer. Go beertenders!

Yeah, I realise that. But I'd feel a hell of a lot less guilty by paying taxes, a small percentage of which might go to buy a gun, than I would firing that gun or working in the office that handles the distribution of that gun etc.

Out of curiousity is there any point at which you would serve in the military? What if your family was killed in a attack by another nation and or terrorist group?

Well if we are talking actual combat, in practice no, since I have an eye-condition and would just get myself into trouble even if I managed to get in. In theory, I certainly would if I thought it was justified and the only option to save myself, family and/or friends from an invading enemy force.

Fair enough. I know there are some out there that would not do anything even faced with death of oneself. I always question those people's sanity.

Out of curiousity is there any point at which you would serve in the military? What if your family was killed in a attack by another nation and or terrorist group?

Well if we are talking actual combat, in practice no, since I have an eye-condition and would just get myself into trouble even if I managed to get in. In theory, I certainly would if I thought it was justified and the only option to save myself, family and/or friends from an invading enemy force.

91-99 in the USMC. I loved it. Good and bad. I learned a lot about life. One thing I learned is that being in the military doesn't make you a hero or even heroic. I met people in the military I would let serve a burger to my sister, let alone date her. I also met people there who I would readily suffer without end to protect. People I think about almost daily and to whom I look at as example of how I would like to be.

But I've found that with people in the civilian world as well. My favorite lesson of the miliatry is that it's filled with men and women. Nothing magical or strange about it. Just men and women who are trained to do a job that most don't want and couldn't do. It's not a good job. It's usually not a fun job. And it ruins men and women whether they survive or not, sometimes. In some cases, like my case, it leaves men wiser about the world (IMHO) and helps us be better employees, better friends, better significant others, better family members.

I find it unfortunate that so many people treat it like everyone in the military should be worshipped or like they're murderers with so few realizing that military service is a lot of things, and the people who served in it are a rainbow. Pretending like they are homogenously any one thing, heroes, murderers, moral, immoral, stupid, smart, conservative, liberal, is as stupid as stereotyping any other massive non-idealogical group.

Fair enough. I know there are some out there that would not do anything even faced with death of oneself. I always question those people's sanity.

Why? You only live once and it makes sense to want to hold onto it for as long as possible no matter what.

91-99 in the USMC. I loved it. Good and bad. I learned a lot about life. One thing I learned is that being in the military doesn't make you a hero or even heroic. I met people in the military I would let serve a burger to my sister, let alone date her. I also met people there who I would readily suffer without end to protect. People I think about almost daily and to whom I look at as example of how I would like to be.

But I've found that with people in the civilian world as well. My favorite lesson of the miliatry is that it's filled with men and women. Nothing magical or strange about it. Just men and women who are trained to do a job that most don't want and couldn't do. It's not a good job. It's usually not a fun job. And it ruins men and women whether they survive or not, sometimes. In some cases, like my case, it leaves men wiser about the world (IMHO) and helps us be better employees, better friends, better significant others, better family members.

I find it unfortunate that so many people treat it like everyone in the military should be worshipped or like they're murderers with so few realizing that military service is a lot of things, and the people who served in it are a rainbow. Pretending like they are homogenously any one thing, heroes, murderers, moral, immoral, stupid, smart, conservative, liberal, is as stupid as stereotyping any other massive non-idealogical group.

You have hit the very nail on the head in describing it. I also have to say it is like any other job you get out of it what you put into it....as those who hate probably did nto put anything into it....or put the wrong stuff into it...or those like yourself who used it to learn about themselves and others. Like most jobs you love or hate it based on what you yourself do with what you have.

Fair enough. I know there are some out there that would not do anything even faced with death of oneself. I always question those people's sanity.

Why? Because some people know that they would not be able to cope with the guilt of knowing that they've killed another human being and prefer a premature death?
I'd be one of those, btw.

Why? Because some people know that they would not be able to cope with the guilt of knowing that they've killed another human being and prefer a premature death?
I'd be one of those, btw.

Better to kill that other then to allow him to kill you or those you love.

Better to kill that other then to allow him to kill you or those you love.

And that's exactly why I object to military.

I wouldn't want to serve. My dad wanted me to serve in the RAF, but it isn't for me.

And that's exactly why I object to military.

Because they are willing to protect those they love?

Why? Because some people know that they would not be able to cope with the guilt of knowing that they've killed another human being and prefer a premature death?
I'd be one of those, btw.

In the situation that I outlined you would do nothing because you were worried about your own guilt then I question you. I also stated not everyone can pull the trigger on another human in combat. If one does not wants to volunteer for it then fine. If you do not want to volunteer for the military then that's fine. However if you are in a situation where it is either your life or there's a normal human would always spare there own and that of there loved ones. If you could not because of the possibility of guilt then that is not normal. Unless you want to clarify a situation were you deemed it appropriate. As my own experience in the brief combat that I was in during the first gulf war you do not have time to think when the shooting starts. Everything reverts to training and instincts. I thought about things later and yes you do feel some remorse for those that died however that is tempered with the thought that they would have killed me if I gave them the chance.

Because they are willing to protect those they love?

Because they're willing to kill.

In the situation that I outlined you would do nothing because you were worried about your own guilt then I question you. I also stated not everyone can pull the trigger on another human in combat. If one does not wants to volunteer for it then fine. If you do not want to volunteer for the military then that's fine. However if you are in a situation where it is either your life or there's a normal human would always spare there own and that of there loved ones. If you could not because of the possibility of guilt then that is not normal. Unless you want to clarify a situation were you deemed it appropriate. As my own experience in the brief combat that I was in during the first gulf war you do not have time to think when the shooting starts. Everything reverts to training and instincts. I thought about things later and yes you do feel some remorse for those that died however that is tempered with the thought that they would have killed me if I gave them the chance.

I don't know if I'm normal or not, normality depends on the point of view.
But apart from the fact that I most likely would not be able to kill another human even if I wanted to, I also believe that there is no situation in which it would be justified for me to do so.

I don't know if I'm normal or not, normality depends on the point of view.
But apart from the fact that I most likely would not be able to kill another human even if I wanted to, I also believe that there is no situation in which it would be justified for me to do so.

Well I believe normal is defined by what the majority of people would do in a given situation. I find it interesting that you would find no situation that it would be justified. I can think of dozens however. I would say your not normal in that respect.

Well I believe normal is defined by what the majority of people would do in a given situation. I find it interesting that you would find no situation that it would be justified. I can think of dozens however. I would say your not normal in that respect.

I can live with that.

Then I prey every day to be abnormal. The majority of people are idiots.

I always say 5-10% of the population actually run everything. Everyone else just exists in their world.

Well I believe normal is defined by what the majority of people would do in a given situation.

Then I prey every day to be abnormal. The majority of people are idiots.

I can live with that.

While I don't agree with your position, I do respect it. I wouldn't want to leave my children with you, but it's certainly not because I think you're a bad person or don't have a defensible and responsible position.

I always say 5-10% of the population actually run everything. Everyone else just exists in their world.

That's crap too. If the majority of people disappeared from this planet. The majority who really do run things, the 5 - 10 % you're talking about would rot in a pool of their own feces. This world is being run by the majority. The problem is that most of those people aren't really thinking about their place in the world.

Because they're willing to kill.

That is your choice and one has to respect it. But whether you agree or not you have it because others have made the choice to do what they had to to protect loved ones and their way of life. But I am not saying this to cause this discussion to spiral down into an argument over beleifs......just stating how I see things as you state how you see things.

I fought against the Kaiser and all his Krauts back in the day.

Am I the only one who vaguely thought this would be about Mcdonald's?

That is your choice and one has to respect it. But whether you agree or not you have it because others have made the choice to do what they had to to protect loved ones and their way of life. But I am not saying this to cause this discussion to spiral down into an argument over beleifs......just stating how I see things as you state how you see things.

Considering that I'm German, I would say that I now have that right despite the effort of everybody fighting in that country in that past 150 years, not because of them.

Well I believe normal is defined by what the majority of people would do in a given situation. I find it interesting that you would find no situation that it would be justified. I can think of dozens however. I would say your not normal in that respect.

total bullshit definition. Technically the majority of people in this world will menstruate at some point in their lives.

Are you saying you and I are abnormal since we never have and never will?

total bullshit definition. Technically the majority of people in this world will menstruate at some point in their lives.

Are you saying you and I are abnormal since we never have and never will?

I think you're a little off-base here.

You seem to be ignoring "in a given situation" - for instance, in the situation of 'being female.'

Also, "do" might be taken as being more of a volitional than functional thing.
Sure, women "do" menstruate, but it isn't something they 'deliberately do.'

I think you're a little off-base here.

You seem to be ignoring "in a given situation" - for instance, in the situation of 'being female.'

Also, "do" might be taken as being more of a volitional than functional thing.
Sure, women "do" menstruate, but it isn't something they 'deliberately do.'

I didn't take it that way. Technically, the majority of people on the planet are Christians. It still doesn't make me "not normal" being an atheist.
And I am perfectly with the norm for my family and circle of friends.

I didn't take it that way. Technically, the majority of people on the planet are Christians. It still doesn't make me "not normal" being an atheist.
And I am perfectly with the norm for my family and circle of friends.

I'd be surprised if you were right about the majority in the world being Christian. Christianity may be the largest single religion, but I don't think it's more than 50% of the total population.

I'd be surprised if you were right about the majority in the world being Christian. Christianity may be the largest single religion, but I don't think it's more than 50% of the total population.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organized_religion#Demographics

Interesting read. There's a pie chart far down the page that gives a percentage breakdown - here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Major_religions_2005_pie_small.png).

Looks like the big C comes in at 33%. Not a majority.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organized_religion#Demographics

Interesting read. There's a pie chart far down the page that gives a percentage breakdown - here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Major_religions_2005_pie_small.png).

Looks like the big C comes in at 33%. Not a majority.

Fair enough. I'll change my statement to the majotity of the world being religious. I belong to the mere 16% who are unreligious. It still doesn't make me abnormal, does it?

Actually, a lot of the records from the WWII era were destroyed in a fire (1973 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1973_National_Archives_Fire)).

Which is why I keep my DD214 & other important paperwork in a safety deposit box.

US Army, 1993-1997. 101st Airborne.
You know what's even better. Go to your local courthouse and register the DD-214. That way, when you need a copy for something, you just go to the courthouse, get a certified true copy and go about your business. You still keep the original, so everyone wins.

Oh, yeah, I served. Retired as a Lt Col in 2001 from the Marine Corps reserves, after 12 years active duty and 8 years in the IRR. Maybe I'll live long enough to see my first retirement check.

Considering that I'm German, I would say that I now have that right despite the effort of everybody fighting in that country in that past 150 years, not because of them.
I always thought you were Irish. Got a question. How would one start looking for ancestral records in Germany? You know, the sort of stuff family trees are built upon -- birth/death certs, property records, military, marriage... I don't imagine much of that is available via internet, is it?

I always thought you were Irish. Got a question. How would one start looking for ancestral records in Germany? You know, the sort of stuff family trees are built upon -- birth/death certs, property records, military, marriage... I don't imagine much of that is available via internet, is it?

I'd suggest the local church registers, everything else can be hard to trace. A lot of records got lost during various wars throughout the centuries. My grandfather managed to trace some branches of our family history back to 1649, but there are virtually no records left from before that time in our area. The Swedes burned them all when they burned down the churches.

You can check some things online throught the wiki-genealogy project (http://wiki-de.genealogy.net/wiki/Portal:Datenbanken) and this page on genealogy (http://ahnenforschung.net/)(both pages are in German, though)

That's crap too. If the majority of people disappeared from this planet. The majority who really do run things, the 5 - 10 % you're talking about would rot in a pool of their own feces. This world is being run by the majority. The problem is that most of those people aren't really thinking about their place in the world.

I meant that in a sarcastic way. Jeebus....

total bullshit definition. Technically the majority of people in this world will menstruate at some point in their lives.

Are you saying you and I are abnormal since we never have and never will?


I said Majority not to be confused with half.

I said Majority not to be confused with half.

Nope. 51% of the population is female, 49% is male.

Nope. 51% of the population is female, 49% is male.

Alright smart-ass... I was referencing normal behavior not biological functions.

You couldn't pay me to bear arms and kill people. Sorry, not my thing. I value life over national borders anyday.
Didn't you read your American Bible? It says clearly in the Gospels of both Franklin and Washington that a Christian's first duty is to the Republican party, second to his local megachurch, third to his SUV, fourth to his country, fifth to the life of the unborn (but kill as much as you want post-birth!), and lastly to the poor, but only if he has any cash left over from his latest much-needed Glock. Because guns are a God-given right!

The last people in my family to have been in the army were my grandfathers, heroically promoting the benefits of the 3rd Reich to all those poor misguided people in Eastern Europe. I hate their guts for it.
You have no idea of how much of an improvement Nazi occupation was to the untermenschen slaves (um, I mean Slavs) of the east!

I have a shell the size of a fist in my head. Pork Chop Hill. The only way I can make this goddamn toupee to stay on is by magnetizing the entire upper left quadrant of my skull, so you just go ahead and do what you do.
That surely explains how you can read articles and only see about 30% of the facts in them.

I beat Call of Duty.

Alright smart-ass... I was referencing normal behavior not biological functions.

What is normal is not determined by majority. You're simply wrong, and that's why you're having trouble explaining it.

Alright smart-ass... I was referencing normal behavior not biological functions.

In that case, I'm grossly abnormal for not being religious, either.
And highly abnormal for being bilingual.
And exceedingly abnormal for being European, too.

Being "normal" is really just a qualitative description, it doesn't hold any value as such.

I'd suggest the local church registers, everything else can be hard to trace. A lot of records got lost during various wars throughout the centuries. My grandfather managed to trace some branches of our family history back to 1649, but there are virtually no records left from before that time in our area. The Swedes burned them all when they burned down the churches.

You can check some things online throught the wiki-genealogy project (http://wiki-de.genealogy.net/wiki/Portal:Datenbanken) and this page on genealogy (http://ahnenforschung.net/)(both pages are in German, though)

Damn Swedes -- I knew there was something dark in their past. We're probably going to Germany for a work/vacation visit and I was looking for something constructive to do, besides testing beer. Thanks for the links. I can read enough to almost know what's going on in the papers. Coherent spoken German still eludes me.

I have been traced back to a mercenary in the 1600's on my fathers side.

What are you trying to say? That if you remove the bravest and strongest and most adventurest swedes from from the breeding stock of the country and then keep removing them every generation for a thousand years, the people that never left Sweden will have a higher chance of being people that don't like the military, like you? Interesting.

If you think bravery had anything to do with a "conscripted" army that poor peasants were forced into by the ruling monarchical class, then you really are ignorant. Nevertheless, sanity does have a knack for prevailing in this country, hence pax sueciae.

Looks like Sweden still wages war.

None of the conflicts you listed were wars Sweden was involved in or even wars when Sweden got involved. Peace keeping and aid != war. Nice try, though. Actually, it was a complete failure by you, but still.

What is normal is not determined by majority. You're simply wrong, and that's why you're having trouble explaining it.

No I am not simply wrong. Normal behavior is dictated by what the majority does. I don't have any trouble explaining it. You although seem to have trouble trying to grasp the concept.

nor·mal (nôr'məl)
adj.
Conforming with, adhering to, or constituting a norm, standard, pattern, level, or type; typical: normal room temperature; one's normal weight; normal diplomatic relations.
Biology. Functioning or occurring in a natural way; lacking observable abnormalities or deficiencies.

I have thought about joining the Armed Forces a few times, and not to sound selfish, but I couldn't in good conscience do it knowing that I might be used to perpetuate a political goal that I did not agree with at all.

No I am not simply wrong. Normal behavior is dictated by what the majority does.

It is not. Normal behavior is determined by a number of factors. Many types of behavior don't exist at all in the majority and is still perfectly normal. Quit while you're extremely far behind. You have no idea how such things are analyzed.

I don't have any trouble explaining it. You although seem to have trouble trying to grasp the concept.

nor·mal (nôr'məl)
adj.
Conforming with, adhering to, or constituting a norm, standard, pattern, level, or type; typical: normal room temperature; one's normal weight; normal diplomatic relations.
Biology. Functioning or occurring in a natural way; lacking observable abnormalities or deficiencies.

And where does that mention "majority". It doesn't. It says occurring in a natural way. It's absolutely possible for the majority of human beings to be abnormal or to display a particular type of abnormal behavior.

For example, my normal weight would have nothing to do with your normal weight or the weight of the majority of the world. When you post a definition, you should actually read it. This just makes you look silly.

EDIT: It's precisely this that makes people object to the use of the word normal, when so many people like yourself misuse the term.

Is being Christian abnormal? The majority of the world is non-Christian.

Is choosing not to pray abnormal behavior? The majority of the world prays in some fashion.

Which majority are we talking about? The majority of the world? The majority of all human beings that have ever lived? The majority of people in your culture? The majority of people in your family? The majority of the people in your state? The majority of people in your age group? The majority of people in your gender? The majority of people with some combination of these factors?