NationStates Jolt Archive

Thought it might be interesting to see the NS consensus on whether NDEs are divine or just a result of stress/hormones/endorphins etc.

For the record, NDEs here can be grouped as the tunnel with the light at the end, the life review, all of those things that humans apparently experience when dead or near death.

Personally I believe they are just a biological effect. I've seen people claim that because they are similar across countries and time that this proves it is some higher power or divinity, when this just proves that it is a common result of the human system.

I had a "near-life" experience once . . .

Personally, I think it's possible they're simply an interpretation of that person's consciousness moving to another substrate, with the remaining neurochemicals being released by the body to make the process less disturbing for the conscious mind involved. It's not a "spiritual" experience but rather a continuation of conscious existence in another form.

In other words, it's a natural-world version of mind uploading. Of course, the problem would be transferring memory and personality since they are stored in the brain, but that would be possible if the same functions could be recreated in some other way.

Personally, I'd rather just not die, and barring that be cryonically preserved until that can be achieved. I'd rather be dead for 100 or 1000 years than forever, and of course I'd rather not die since missing all that time frozen would kind of suck, especially if I miss something important like the Second Coming of Jesus or Ragnarok. It's based on a simple fact: I know with 100% certainty that I'm conscious here, and I'd prefer not to gamble that away by dying and possibly losing it.

People placed in centrifuges to simulate high G maneuvers in a jet fighter seem to have them if they black out during the procedure. That indicates to me that it's purely biological.

Thought it might be interesting to see the NS consensus on whether NDEs are divine or just a result of stress/hormones/endorphins etc.

For the record, NDEs here can be grouped as the tunnel with the light at the end, the life review, all of those things that humans apparently experience when dead or near death.

Personally I believe they are just a biological effect. I've seen people claim that because they are similar across countries and time that this proves it is some higher power or divinity, when this just proves that it is a common result of the human system.

I had a near-death experience. When I was decapitated, I had a vision of entering a tunnel brightly lit with Christmas lights and Dave Matthews music playing in the background. When I reached the end, I was welcomed by none other than Kurt Cobain and Queen Victoria, who hooked me up with some crack and opium for free, and took me to a roomful of strippers. Then my head was reattached, and I returned to my earthly body. Now I am without any fear of death.

I had a near-death experience. When I was decapitated, I had a vision of entering a tunnel brightly lit with Christmas lights and Dave Matthews music playing in the background. When I reached the end, I was welcomed by none other than Kurt Cobain and Queen Victoria, who hooked me up with some crack and opium for free, and took me to a roomful of strippers. Then my head was reattached, and I returned to my earthly body. Now I am without any fear of death.

When I was electrocuted, I heard a deep, booming voice say "YOU MUST CONSTRUCT ADDITIONAL PYLONS". Now I am terrified of death.

I had a near-death experience. When I was decapitated, I had a vision of entering a tunnel brightly lit with Christmas lights and Dave Matthews music playing in the background. When I reached the end, I was welcomed by none other than Kurt Cobain and Queen Victoria, who hooked me up with some crack and opium for free, and took me to a roomful of strippers. Then my head was reattached, and I returned to my earthly body. Now I am without any fear of death.

Please tell me you're kidding.

People placed in centrifuges to simulate high G maneuvers in a jet fighter seem to have them if they black out during the procedure. That indicates to me that it's purely biological.

I've actually read that there are some differences between the two. Presumably they work on the same basic principles, but they are different in terms of how exactly it happens.

I had a near-death experience. When I was decapitated, I had a vision of entering a tunnel brightly lit with Christmas lights and Dave Matthews music playing in the background. When I reached the end, I was welcomed by none other than Kurt Cobain and Queen Victoria, who hooked me up with some crack and opium for free, and took me to a roomful of strippers. Then my head was reattached, and I returned to my earthly body. Now I am without any fear of death.

Really? Were the strippers hot?

Bah. NS is too intelligent. I want to argue pointlessly with dumb people to make myself feel smart god damn it.

I almost drowned when I was 5. I had two asthma attacks at 5 and 6 where I lost consciousness from lack of oxygen. I've never had an NDE.

When I was electrocuted, I heard a deep, booming voice say "YOU MUST CONSTRUCT ADDITIONAL PYLONS". Now I am terrified of death.

Really? That must be the other place ...

Please tell me you're kidding.

OK, so the doctors said it was only a PARTIAL decapitation, but I figured bringing that up would only complicate and obscure my depiction of the afterlife.

Really? Were the strippers hot?

Bah. NS is too intelligent. I want to argue pointlessly with dumb people to make myself feel smart god damn it.

Totally.

Really? That must be the other place ...

Yeah, I distinctly recall having 99 minerals.

Lack of oxygen makes the brain go loco.

I had a stroke a few years back.. no visions of God or heaven to report, I'm afraid. ;) Just head-to-toe numbness, blindness, suffocation and crushing pain. Neither did I relive events from my past.. I basically just stayed calm, laid back and waited for death, which fortunately didn't come. Can't say I learned anything from the experience.

I nearly killed myself during Love Actually. It's crap. Argh.

When I was electrocuted, I heard a deep, booming voice say "YOU MUST CONSTRUCT ADDITIONAL PYLONS". Now I am terrified of death.

Were you reincarnated as a dragoon? :)

My dad claimed to have had a vision of Hell once, while he was in emergency surgery. To hear him describe it gave me goosebumps, and he converted to Catholicism after he got out of the hospital.

But then after another surgery, he claimed Pikachu had been speaking in his left ear. I don't know if this means that Pikachu is Satan, or the drugs were talking, or my dad is just weird, or a combination of all three.

Were you reincarnated as a dragoon? :)

Yeah. That was a really weird millenium.

I don't think they are real. There's no hard and fast evidence they are anything but your brain making you happy before it control-alt-deats.

My dad claimed to have had a vision of Hell once, while he was in emergency surgery. To hear him describe it gave me goosebumps, and he converted to Catholicism after he got out of the hospital.

But then after another surgery, he claimed Pikachu had been speaking in his left ear. I don't know if this means that Pikachu is Satan, or the drugs were talking, or my dad is just weird, or a combination of all three.

Pikachu is the anti-christ.

Pikachu is the anti-christ.

Hmph. I was afraid of that.

Both: they are religious and spiritual in nature, however religion and spirituality are, of course, themselves a result of biology.

Dear people of this thread,

I'm a ghost. And I only re-appear every 10th anniversary of my death. And I chose to use my time in this thread telling you guys what a near death experience is like.

When you are almost dead or you think your gonna die, you don't have visions, you only have enough time to say "Aww, shit!".

It's cruel to die, but it's gods will.

Yours Truly,

Jebus

Take a ride in a gravity simulator and push it to the limit. (No Time Traveler jokes now.) You'll get a near-death experience easily without being near-death.

It's purely biological, with no spirtual component to it, nor an upload as Vetalia is hypothosizing(though that is an interesting hypothesis and I like the sound of it.)

Doesn't Ketamine also create NDE's?

Not quite. More accurately, it creates the sensation of the out-of-body experience which is a significant component of the NDE.

Take a ride in a gravity simulator and push it to the limit. (No Time Traveler jokes now.) You'll get a near-death experience easily without being near-death.

It's purely biological, with no spirtual component to it, nor an upload as Vetalia is hypothosizing(though that is an interesting hypothesis and I like the sound of it.)

Doesn't Ketamine also create NDE's?

Not quite. More accurately, it creates the sensation of the out-of-body experience which is a significant component of the NDE.

But Out of Body Experiences are induced from other completely unrelated sources too. Hell they simulated an OOBE using a strong magnetic field in test subjects. It was interesting.

Aside: I've always wondered what the science behind Kirlian Photography is, and if it really is the aura one is capturing on film.

Not quite. More accurately, it creates the sensation of the out-of-body experience which is a significant component of the NDE.

Right, that's what it does.

Not quite. More accurately, it creates the sensation of the out-of-body experience which is a significant component of the NDE.

Ah. It always sounded too scary to try myself.

Weell, about the age of one I rolled off the pier left to sunbathe (sunbathing in Finnish summer is not harmful and the ozone layer was okay back then). I kinda rolled over and dropped to the lake, sinking like a stone. All I remember - and I am not entirely sure if I remember or have filled in later - was a light above me that seemed beautiful.

Well, duh! Of course there is a light above!

The thing I am really pissed about is my dad giving me a candy after having pulled me outta there and me almost choking on it. I mean, it was quiet and comfortable in the water, but then this dude comes, sticks a candy in my throat and as I choke on it hangs me upside down from my legs and whacks me. Not nice.

Another near fatal thing happened when I was way past 30 already. On the freeway some idiot comes from the intersection lane not watching for the traffic he/she is supposed to give way to and forces me straight to the fence at 80 kph. That car was a goner, and I still can't figure out why wasn't I too.

But I saw no lights or heard any harp music during the few seconds I lost consciousness. All I remember was shouting "OH FUUUUCK WHAT AN IDIO..." Then black.

Joona

Ah. It always sounded too scary to try myself.

Yeah, I'd stick with shrooms if I were going to try anything psychotropic.

In fact, it was those OBEs that had a lot to do with why ketamine is no longer very popular as a painkiller, especially in the military. Its psychological effects were discovered when it was first used during the Vietnam War.

Weell, about the age of one I rolled off the pier left to sunbathe (sunbathing in Finnish summer is not harmful and the ozone layer was okay back then). I kinda rolled over and dropped to the lake, sinking like a stone. All I remember - and I am not entirely sure if I remember or have filled in later - was a light above me that seemed beautiful.

Well, duh! Of course there is a light above!

The thing I am really pissed about is my dad giving me a candy after having pulled me outta there and me almost choking on it. I mean, it was quiet and comfortable in the water, but then this dude comes, sticks a candy in my throat and as I choke on it hangs me upside down from my legs and whacks me. Not nice.

Another near fatal thing happened when I was way past 30 already. On the freeway some idiot comes from the intersection lane not watching for the traffic he/she is supposed to give way to and forces me straight to the fence at 80 kph. That car was a goner, and I still can't figure out why wasn't I too.

But I saw no lights or heard any harp music during the few seconds I lost consciousness. All I remember was shouting "OH FUUUUCK WHAT AN IDIO..." Then black.

Joona

Yeah, I'd imagine during my asthma attacks I was too busy thinking "Hmm...why can't I breathe?" to have time to have a NDE.

I can believe that one puts off some sort of energy. Energy in the physics sense not in the new-age sense.

I'm also curious about that study that souls have weight. They weighed bodies duing the death process. I can't remember specifics. I'm sure it was a poorly constructed unduplicateable study.

Well all I know is that the colors in these images seem to have some correspondence to mood. I really don't know, though. It's basically just a different colored glow around a person's head in the image.

But Out of Body Experiences are induced from other completely unrelated sources too. Hell they simulated an OOBE using a strong magnetic field in test subjects. It was interesting.

Aside: I've always wondered what the science behind Kirlian Photography is, and if it really is the aura one is capturing on film.

I can believe that one puts off some sort of energy. Energy in the physics sense not in the new-age sense.

I'm also curious about that study that souls have weight. They weighed bodies duing the death process. I can't remember specifics. I'm sure it was a poorly constructed unduplicateable study.

Yeah, I'd stick with shrooms if I were going to try anything psychotropic.

In fact, it was those OBEs that had a lot to do with why ketamine is no longer very popular as a painkiller, especially in the military. Its psychological effects were discovered when it was first used during the Vietnam War.

Shrooms are awsome. I like the "all is right with the world" feeling. It actually helps me work through tough things in my life because I can analyze them with a sense of safety and well- being.

Shrooms are awsome. I like the "all is right with the world" feeling. It actually helps me work through tough things in my life because I can analyze them with a sense of safety and well- being.

I recall reading a study that found shrooms have a pretty significant impact on overall well-being, and they may be a very useful tool for treating mental conditions like depression or bipolar disorder because of their effects on the brain.

Two huge advantages are that they don't have the kind of negative side effects that conventional antidepressants have, and that they appear to affect more types of depression more effectively than specific antidepressants. Further advances in neurochemistry might further reveal the mechanisms behind how exactly they do it, but right now we only know that they do.

I wouldn't doubt the possibility of shrooms being decriminalized or at least removed from Schedule I once their medical effectiveness is demonstrated.

Heaven forbid they ever leagalise anything of any real value.

Ecstasy also has some very effective and powerful mood effects (and was originally prescribed/marketed as an antidepressant in the 70's), but

Frankly, if we didn't ban these substances, we probably wouldn't have anywhere near the same problems with abuse and psychiatrists would have some very effective tools to fight mental problems with. But noooo....it would make more sense to fight a losing war that does nothing but encourage and strengthen the things it is supposed to prevent.

Well all I know is that the colors in these images seem to have some correspondence to mood. I really don't know, though. It's basically just a different colored glow around a person's head in the image.

Was there any evidence that the photographer didn't just pick pictures that validate their point? Did the photographer know the person's mood ahead of time?

I recall reading a study that found shrooms have a pretty significant impact on overall well-being, and they may be a very useful tool for treating mental conditions like depression or bipolar disorder because of their effects on the brain.

Two huge advantages are that they don't have the kind of negative side effects that conventional antidepressants have, and that they appear to affect more types of depression more effectively than specific antidepressants. Further advances in neurochemistry might further reveal the mechanisms behind how exactly they do it, but right now we only know that they do.

I wouldn't doubt the possibility of shrooms being decriminalized or at least removed from Schedule I once their medical effectiveness is demonstrated.

Heaven forbid they ever leagalise anything of any real value. I forsee it being a long battle.

Also, ecstacy used to be used in couple therapy with very good results.

Was there any evidence that the photographer didn't just pick pictures that validate their point? Did the photographer know the person's mood ahead of time?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kirlian

good place to start.

I think it's mainly dreaming and brain chemicals and stress and stuff. (big shock)

I'm a skeptical agnostic, but I am not well-informed enough about them to make a convincing argument.