NationStates Jolt Archive

I don't think you understand. It's a military policy handed down from the President of the United Fucking States. They follow it, and to suggest that they don't follow it 100% of the time is either idiocy or ignorance.

Policies are not 100% ironclad regardless of who orders it.

I think that there's nothing wrong with the policy.

I think that there's nothing wrong with the policy.

Why?

Tell that to the number of people whose lives have been ruined by a dishonorable discharge as a result of this policy.

Ever thought that some also have ignored it because of that very fact?

Why?

Because.

I think that there's nothing wrong with the policy.

Why? I thought you had nothing against homosexuals :confused:

WHy would you support them being kicked out of the military if their sexual orientation is found out? Especially seeing as how the majority of the military members profess to have no problem with serving with homosexuals.

Policies are not 100% ironclad regardless of who orders it.

Tell that to the number of people whose lives have been ruined by a dishonorable discharge as a result of this policy.

Why? I thought you had nothing against homosexuals :confused:

WHy would you support them being kicked out of the military if their sexual orientation is found out? Especially seeing as how the majority of the military members profess to have no problem with serving with homosexuals.

Because if there is ever any reason why I get caught up in the army, you can call me Princess.

Ignored what?


I think he is saying that there are a few commanders and whatnt that have ignored a persons sexual orientation and let them continue to serve.

Gee swell eh? I guess that makes terrorists okay because they do charity work in their own communities sometimes.

Ever thought that some also have ignored it because of that very fact?

Ignored what?

Ignored what?

:headbang:

There have been several times I have ignored standard policy for the betterment of my old CAP unit. Why? For the same reason that people should be ignoring this.

Because if there is ever any reason why I get caught up in the army, you can call me Princess.

Hah! Well there are other ways to get a dishonorable discharge that doesnt take the rights away from homosexuals who actually do want to serve in the military. ON the radio this a.m. they were talkign about desserters that went AWOL but eventually were let out with a "less than honorable discharge".

EDIT: If I heard right it was something along the lines of 2,500 soldiers every three months. Don't quote me on that. Really. Take your finger off that quote button! *wags finger*

Because if there is ever any reason why I get caught up in the army, you can call me Princess.

I'll be doing that on saturday night regardless ;) http://www.freesmileys.org/emo/love054.gif



:p

and now we see the meat of the matter. you want Thought Police. you want people not to be free to be who they are, but free to think the ideas YOU want them to think and to penalize those who don't. you are for REVERSE DISCRIMINATION. Eye for an Eye. revenge.

nice.

I don't believe I said anything about THINK, I said about DO. Read my post again, then learn what the hell you're talking about.

People are free to THINK what they want. However if their THOUGHTS get in the way of their JOB then they don't deserve to HAVE that job.

That goes for anyone. Anyone who would let personal bias interfere with their professional conduct does not deserve to be a professional.

:headbang:

There have been several times I have ignored standard policy for the betterment of my old CAP unit. Why? For the same reason that people should be ignoring this.

so in other words, you admit to disobeying standing orders? Is there any reason we should respect you for this?

By your own admission you deserve a dishonerable discharge.

Hah! Well there are other ways to get a dishonorable discharge that doesnt take the rights away from homosexuals who actually do want to serve in the military. ON the radio this a.m. they were talkign about desserters that went AWOL but eventually were let out with a "less than honorable discharge".

:eek: ...

... eeeeew.
EDIT: If I heard right it was something along the lines of 2,500 soldiers every three months. Don't quote me on that. Really. Take your finger off that quote button! *wags finger*

*sucks finger*

Call me Princess and I'll go lower.. ;)
I'll be doing that on saturday night regardless ;) http://www.freesmileys.org/emo/love054.gif



:p

Ruffy Does Oslo, eh?

:eek: ...

... eeeeew.


*sucks finger*

Call me Princess and I'll go lower.. ;)



How did we get here? I was supposed to be the princess this time.

so in other words, you admit to disobeying standing orders? Is there any reason we should respect you for this?

By your own admission you deserve a dishonerable discharge.

I did it when I knew I was in the right. I did it when I knew all of my ducks were in order. I should have been tossed out when I was only a Cadet Airman but the only thing that saved me was that I was in the right. I can tell you that story if ya like.

There are many times when commanders ignored standing policy because it would be detremental to the unit.

And yet you still disobeyed standing orders.

Dude, not a day goes by when someone is not violating standing orders. I've read the UCMJ and I'm sure if someone follows it literally, there would be no one in the military.

I did it when I knew I was in the right. I did it when I knew all of my ducks were in order. I should have been tossed out when I was only a Cadet Airman but the only thing that saved me was that I was in the right. I can tell you that story if ya like.

There are many times when commanders ignored standing policy because it would be detremental to the unit.

And yet you still disobeyed standing orders.

I did it when I knew I was in the right. I did it when I knew all of my ducks were in order. I should have been tossed out when I was only a Cadet Airman but the only thing that saved me was that I was in the right. I can tell you that story if ya like.

There are many times when commanders ignored standing policy because it would be detremental to the unit.

so in other words...you disobeyed an order, and you justify it because you thought it was ok?

If it shouldn't be the concern of anyone, then there is no reason to kick them out of the military for it, eh?

indeed.

Yes the gay pride parade is disgusting. I've seen the pictures. It is disgusting. As to flaunting it, the way those who participate in the gay pride do it is disgusting.

Being gay is not icky at all. A few of my friends are gay/lesbians. I have no problem with them and I do not get "weirded out" when I am with them.
Well, it's their First Amendment right to do so, just like it's yours to turn off the TV. Gay Pride parades are for GSLBQTG (sorry if I've missed someone) to express themselves as they see fit. It's certainly the gay community at it's wierdest, happiest, and most flamboyant, but that's the point.


Agreed. :p

Good we agree on something.

Its a personal thing. I do not care if they are gay.

If you don't care, then you have no reason to support a policy that would kick them out of the military for simply mentioning their significant other.

Just some flaunt it so much that it becomes disgusting. Watch a Gay Pride parade sometime.

Some heterosexuals flaunt it so much that it becomes disgusting. Been to many frat parties? Hell, even some of the conversation and gestures you see around a guys' college dorm....

maybe because it is a personal thing that should not be the concern of anyone?

If it shouldn't be the concern of anyone, then there is no reason to kick them out of the military for it, eh?

I was listening to a story on the radio about how female soldiers in Iraq are afraid for their lives because they are constantly in danger of men in their own squad sexually attacking them. Their own commanders have told them not to go out alone (this is on base), especially at night.

Now, I hear there are "tens of thousands of gay men serving in the military". Why aren't other men afraid that they are going to get raped? :P

I think that if these gay men were allowed to be open about their sexuality they can befriend the women and protect them!
I endorse this idea.
Its a personal thing. I do not care if they are gay. Just some flaunt it so much that it becomes disgusting. Watch a Gay Pride parade sometime.



maybe because it is a personal thing that should not be the concern of anyone?
So people should have to hide their sexuality? Or just gays?
Ash Wed. services are mostly at night :rolleyes:
I've never been to one at night that I remember, though it has been about 3 years.
Because if there is ever any reason why I get caught up in the army, you can call me Princess.

As ever, Ruffy wins.

I'm not Catholic so kiss my Methodist ass.

Or you could learn the history of your church's traditions.

Its the way the federal government works. They are not allowed to ask us our religion and we are under no obligation to state what our religion is :D

But if they happen to find out that you are, for instance, a Scientologist, they can't fire you for being one. If you happen to mention, in a conversation with a coworker, that you met your new boyfriend at church, they can't fire you for going to church.

See the difference?


Sure there's a way to change the policy so that it's fair.

make it so that the military still has no right to ask what their sexual orientation is and the soldier still has a right not to tell them what it is, but change it so that if their sexual orientation is found out that it is no longer grounds for dismissal and instead they can only shrugh their shoulders and do nothing about it instead.

Now I ask you: What's wrong with that?

Well....um.......er........

I got nothin'. =)

Still dodging the question, Junii--how would allowing a gay servicemember to be out be extending that servicemember preferential treatment to straight servicemembers?

The same way that allowing gay marriage would be allowing gays "special rights". :rolleyes:

If the U.S. military were brave enough to expect the same things from each of their soldiers, we wouldn't have this problem. Men, women, gays, Muslims, Catholics.....etc. It doesn't really matter who you are. Rules and standards must be enforced EQUALLY! This means there should be NO special treatment.

My time in the military allowed me to meet many racists, women who did not have to meet the standards of the men, gays.........and so on.

The problem is amongst the ideals of the soldiers. While serving, I saw the blacks stick with the blacks, the whites stick with the whites. This is of course a generalization that I saw most of the time. Until Americans can get over their differences and move on. I don't believe gays will be very safe if they were to be open with their sexuallity.

America is but a child of a little over 200 years old as a United States.

I have no problem with gays being "Out" in the military.....but there are many who do and will.

America has a lot of growing to do.

Its the way the federal government works. They are not allowed to ask us our religion and we are under no obligation to state what our religion is :D

But unlike don't ask don't tell people aren't permitted to fire you if they find out what your religion (or lack there of) is.

<damn, beaten to the punch>

Some heterosexuals flaunt it so much that it becomes disgusting. Been to many frat parties? Hell, even some of the conversation and gestures you see around a guys' college dorm....

I was going to add Mardi Gras parade, but this is Corny we're talking to here...

Of course, if you do Mardi Gras in New Orleans (the way it ought to be done), then you'll get the full range of hetero and homosexuality out commingling and partying, all giving the Jesus freaks with their big signs equal amounts of hell.

I was going to add Mardi Gras parade, but this is Corny we're talking to here...

Of course, if you do Mardi Gras in New Orleans (the way it ought to be done), then you'll get the full range of hetero and homosexuality out commingling and partying, all giving the Jesus freaks with their big signs equal amounts of hell.

Co ... commingling? :eek:

Co ... commingling? :eek:

Oh yeah. It's like a big bi-fest in the streets, with the whole range of sexuality on display. I love New Orleans. :D

A qualified yes on the matter.

I believe that the military should not give a damn either way, and should generally get pissed if someone, regardless of their sexuality, goes out of the way to publicize it.

Oh yeah. It's like a big bi-fest in the streets, with the whole range of sexuality on display. I love New Orleans. :D

I bet! I know people who've gone and someday, someday ...

Co ... commingling? :eek:No, out-commingling. Whatever that may mean... ;)

I bet! I know people who've gone and someday, someday ......someday what? they'll just fuck around?:eek:

A qualified yes on the matter.

I believe that the military should not give a damn either way, and should generally get pissed if someone, regardless of their sexuality, goes out of the way to publicize it.
Here's the problem--what constitutes "going out of their way to publicize it?" A picture of your significant other in your wallet? Bringing your same-sex S.O. to a family gathering around other members of the unit? Wearing a wedding ring? There are so many things that heterosexuals consider normal conduct that show off our heterosexuality and we never even think about it. But when gay people are open about their sexuality, the reaction is often that "they're flaunting it." It's a double standard.

Uhm ... no, I meant that someday I'll go. :confused:...and then fuck around? :eek:

Here's the problem--what constitutes "going out of their way to publicize it?" A picture of your significant other in your wallet? Bringing your same-sex S.O. to a family gathering around other members of the unit? Wearing a wedding ring? There are so many things that heterosexuals consider normal conduct that show off our heterosexuality and we never even think about it. But when gay people are open about their sexuality, the reaction is often that "they're flaunting it." It's a double standard.

you know it's funny. This exactly the point. People swear up and down "we don't make a point out of being straight why do they have to make a point of being gay?" But they don't realize, every time you talk about your girlfriend, every time you talk about getting married, or your honeymoon, or your kids, or your spouse, or the girl you met, everytime your significant other is seen with you you are making a point about being straight.

...someday what? they'll just fuck around?:eek:

Uhm ... no, I meant that someday I'll go. :confused:

you know it's funny. This exactly the point. People swear up and down "we don't make a point out of being straight why do they have to make a point of being gay?" But they don't realize, every time you talk about your girlfriend, every time you talk about getting married, or your honeymoon, or your kids, or your spouse, or the girl you met, everytime your significant other is seen with you you are making a point about being straight.
And there's nothing wrong with talking about your family, etc--it's just that you shouldn't be surprised when someone with a different family situation wants to do the same without being shouted down for it. And it's not like gays want to shut straights up--they just want to be able to share in the same normal human conduct.

And there's nothing wrong with talking about your family, etc--it's just that you shouldn't be surprised when someone with a different family situation wants to do the same without being shouted down for it. And it's not like gays want to shut straights up--they just want to be able to share in the same normal human conduct.

I have never understood how that is so fundamentally difficult for some people to grasp. I understand that straight people might need it pointed out to them, but I don't understand why they don't get it after it's explained.



BTW: Do you like how the religious right is calling un-born babies fetuses now that [crazy as it is:rolleyes:] they might be gay in the womb?

I have never understood how that is so fundamentally difficult for some people to grasp. I understand that straight people might need it pointed out to them, but I don't understand why they don't get it after it's explained.



BTW: Do you like how the religious right is calling un-born babies fetuses now that [crazy as it is:rolleyes:] they might be gay in the womb?

Do I like it? No. Am I particularly surprised by it? I wouldn't put anything past them, so no.

Do I like it? No. Am I particularly surprised by it? I wouldn't put anything past them, so no.

It's a whole new level of hypocrisy. Ignorance knows no bounds apparently.

And there's nothing wrong with talking about your family, etc--it's just that you shouldn't be surprised when someone with a different family situation wants to do the same without being shouted down for it. And it's not like gays want to shut straights up--they just want to be able to share in the same normal human conduct.

Quite right.
Everyone wants to be able to talk about their life's ups and downs, and often that involves family. Homosexuals just want to do all the things we take for granted when heterosexuals do them.

A qualified yes on the matter.

I believe that the military should not give a damn either way, and should generally get pissed if someone, regardless of their sexuality, goes out of the way to publicize it.

I agree entirely.

They're serving their country, putting themselves on the line and are willing to die for their country and what they stand for, and yet they're told they are not allowed to be themselves?

That's fucked up.

It's primitive and stupid, especially when US army is begging for soldiers, being stretched as it is.

They are not "begging for soldiers." They have met or exceeded their enlistment quotas. :rolleyes:

Don't ask don't tell is daft, why should discrimination based on sexuality be illegal everywhere but the military?

Have you ever served in the military? Didn't think so.

they just want to be able to share in the same normal human conduct.

:confused:

:confused:


why confused? he said "talking about your family" as an example of what heterosexuals get to do openly but this policy keeps homosexuals from doing openly, considering that homosexuals can consider their significant others family just as a husband would consider his wife family.

why confused? he said "talking about your family" as an example of what heterosexuals get to do openly but this policy keeps homosexuals from doing openly, considering that homosexuals can consider their significant others family just as a husband would consider his wife family.

I'm confused about his statement that homosexuality is normal human activity.

I'm confused about his statement that homosexuality is normal human activity.Since when was it not?

Have you ever served in the military? Didn't think so.

Then please explain how discrimination based on sex is not a daft military policy. Why isn't it causing other countries any problems?

I'm confused about his statement that homosexuality is normal human activity.

In your eyes, what percentage of people need to participate in something before it becomes "normal"? I think the fact that it's been around for as long as humans have been and thatmilllions of humans are homosexual is truely a testament to it's normalcy.

EDIT: Though, if you look at what he is saying, he clearly isnt saying what you think he is saying. Though, Nazz may belive that homosexuality is normal, it's obvious he is talking about homosexuals getting to talk about their significant others, what they did on the weekend (without covering up details that will make their sexual preference clear), which celebrity they think is the hottest...

Have you ever served in the military? Didn't think so.

Did you answer his question?

Didn't think so.

I'm confused about his statement that homosexuality is normal human activity.

Holy shit.

odd, don't know about you but all the homosexuals I know are human....

really? how can you be sure? :p

I'm confused about his statement that homosexuality is normal human activity.

odd, don't know about you but all the homosexuals I know are human....

Have you ever served in the military? Didn't think so.

So, if one needs to have been in the military to have an opinion on military policy does one also need to be homosexual to have an opinion on homosexuals? Do you need to smoke weed to have an opinion on drug laws?