NationStates Jolt Archive

Lets say, for speculations sake, that like the Roman Republic, the American democracy collapsed and an American Empire were formed; how do you think this would affect the world? If it did in fact affect the world. And, how would America's relations with the other nations of the world be affected.

Opinions...

Didn't this already happen like 7 years ago?

Didn't this already happen like 7 years ago?

No, America doesn't hold any overseas territories anymore. America could have been considered an empire when we controlled the Phillipines, but now all we have is Puerto Rico,and that hardly qualifies the U.S.A. as an empire.

Ah, that wouldn't happen, but to play what if I'd say a lot of mushroom clouds would suddenly appear in the middle east, russia, and for some reason, france.

France would only get it if we had some extras laying around.

We would most likely have extra's laying around. Most of Europe except Britain and Germany would probably get it.

I thought that might get a few laughs......

Oh, you were trying to be funny, my bad. In that case, the Iraq war is a pure sign of revitalized American Imperialism. :)

Ah, that wouldn't happen, but to play what if I'd say a lot of mushroom clouds would suddenly appear in the middle east, russia, and for some reason, france.

France would only get it if we had some extras laying around.

You will probably find this funny... but here is the possible look of the American Empire. I didn't do any back research on the territories listed so this might be highly improbable; but anyway, here is a map.

No, America doesn't hold any overseas territories anymore. America could have been considered an empire when we controlled the Phillipines, but now all we have is Puerto Rico,and that hardly qualifies the U.S.A. as an empire.

I thought that might get a few laughs......

No, America doesn't hold any overseas territories anymore. America could have been considered an empire when we controlled the Phillipines, but now all we have is Puerto Rico,and that hardly qualifies the U.S.A. as an empire.

ignoring the fact that usia has plenty of them, why are 'overseas territories' necessary for empireness?

No, America doesn't hold any overseas territories anymore. America could have been considered an empire when we controlled the Phillipines, but now all we have is Puerto Rico,and that hardly qualifies the U.S.A. as an empire.

Don't forget Guam, American Samoa, and the Northern Marianas Islands as well as the US virgin Islands. If that's not a powerful empire I don't know what is.

that definition makes the USA an empire if they just stayed at home.

ignoring the fact that usia has plenty of them, why are 'overseas territories' necessary for empireness?

They aren't.

An empire is, generally speaking, "a state that extends dominion over areas and populations distinct culturally and ethnically from the culture/ethnicity at the center of power. Other definitions may emphasize economic or political factors. The term generally implies military hegemonic power."

Now maybe I am mistaken, but did we not invade, conquer, and occupy Iraq? Do people really believe calling it "liberation" changes that fact?

No, America doesn't hold any overseas territories anymore. America could have been considered an empire when we controlled the Phillipines, but now all we have is Puerto Rico,and that hardly qualifies the U.S.A. as an empire.

Where have you been?

"No overseas territories"? You've never heard of US military bases in something like 100+ coutries? Frankfurt, Okinawa, South Korea, Cuba, all over the place. Trust me, that's better for imperialistic concerns than just having a few colonies. Colonies are sooo 19th century.

The US government has been inching closer and closer to empire-like status ever since the end of the Cold War with the USSR. Acting unilaterally, exporting culture and importing foreign workers -- it's a lot like the end days of Rome.

It would have no effect on the rest of the world, because it would be made to look as if the US was still a functioning republic. "Empire" is not a welcome words these days, so there wouldn't be any changing of signs at the border to make them say "Welcome to the Empire of America" or whatever. And all the rest of the world would just choose to ignore the change.

And anyway, the Roman Republic never ended, it was restored by Augustus and his successors, any school kid knows that!

It already exists.

http://respectsacredland.org/no-us-bases/draft3.jpg

Didn't this already happen like 7 years ago?

Quoted for lolz.

Been reading some Orson Scott Card? I made a topic almost a mirror of this one when I read his book "Empire". It was an interesting concept. Too bad the writing (characters, dialogue, research) was atrocious.

US is an empire already. But they are smart enough to know that its much better to control people economicaly and not by military.Nevertheless, they try.

US is an empire already. But they are smart enough to know that its much better to control people economicaly and not by military.

Ah, that wouldn't happen, but to play what if I'd say a lot of mushroom clouds would suddenly appear in the middle east, russia, and for some reason, france.

France :eek:
Don't let that one go eh ;)

Lets say, for speculations sake, that like the Roman Republic, the American democracy collapsed and an American Empire were formed; how do you think this would affect the world? If it did in fact affect the world. And, how would America's relations with the other nations of the world be affected.

Opinions...

Errrrr, suppose it depends on whom they chose to visit. :D
China is off the cards...:mp5:
Europe is off the cards.....:sniper:
Asia is off the cards.....:upyours:

That leaves Iceland :D

Ooops

America already owns Britain.

Heck, Iraq and Afghanistan could be the start of the American EMpire.

Seriously, if the US were to need rescouces, it would probably happen.
Annex the Mideast and create an oil empire, add Africa, you get tungsten, diamonds, iron, gold, other minerals, plus the economically rich Mediterranean coast.Canada and Mexico could be part of it, acquired one way or another, the Carribean and South America would be easy to annex.

It wouldn't have to be a steotypical "bad" empire either, in fact it'd be a great way to clean up the Third World and help developing nations out, and get rid of the juntas and military dictaorships down there.

Canada and Mexico could be part of it, acquired one way or another, the Carribean and South America would be easy to annex. Africa would be next.

Depends what you mean by Empire. The US is already an Empire in the sense that it exercises considerable control over foreign resources through military might, but it is not in the sense that the it would be ruled by an Emperor or a group with similar authority then it is not.

However, there is nothing inherently more moral about a democracy as opposed to an Empire. I'd rather be ruled by Frederich the Great than any of the POTUS of the last fifty year.

In short, things couldn't be much worse.

ignoring the fact that usia has plenty of them, why are 'overseas territories' necessary for empireness?

Firstly, it's "empire" or "imperialism", not "empireness". Secondly, because one cannot be an empire, nor do anystates contend to be empires, when only holding native territores.

Firstly, it's "empire" or "imperialism", not "empireness". Secondly, because one cannot be an empire, nor do anystates contend to be empires, when only holding native territores.

empireness - the quality of being an empire. it's amazing what one can do with suffixes these days.

is 'native' is coterminous with 'on the same continent'?
and what about after the empire has been around long enough to, for example, romanize an area?

empireness - the quality of being an empire. it's amazing what one can do with suffixes these days.

is 'native' is coterminous with 'on the same continent'?
and what about after the empire has been around long enough to, for example, romanize an area?

"Empireness" is a term motivated by laziness and a lack of vocabulary, and an affornt to my bloody language.

As for "native", A definition is difficult to procure, however, consider the following; is Athens an imperial power when its hegemony only spreads over Attica? no.

Is it an empire in the latter days of the Delian league, despite their being European? Yes.

Equally, Rome rarely fully romanized an area beyond Italy, hence the question is invalid.

Ah, that wouldn't happen, but to play what if I'd say a lot of mushroom clouds would suddenly appear in the middle east, russia, and for some reason, france.

Yeah, France would go bye-bye

As many people have already mentioned, America is in many ways imperialistic already. Their domination of the world's economy and culture enforced by strategic placement of US forces throughout the world is essentially the 'Pax Americana'. Athens was democratic, and still behaved in an imperialistic fashion.

Now if the US were to switch to an Empire 'formally' (which goes against the grain of the very nature and history of the US), then what you would see is further use of militarism to further the ends of the government, as well as suppressing dissent and controlling the media. Essentially, formal fascism. While there are examples of empires that weren't fascist (the UK comes to mind), the US is so dominated by business, that a fascist state would be the logical evolution of a formal American Empire.

Of course, brazenly declaring imperialism is counterproductive to America's global success, as is certain recent imperial actions (i.e. - Iraq.)

You will probably find this funny... but here is the possible look of the American Empire. I didn't do any back research on the territories listed so this might be highly improbable; but anyway, here is a map.

Why would the US control Venezuela?

Wait, don't answer that, OIL. :headbang:.

I find it odd that you left off the UK and Iraq.

Why would the US control Venezuela?

Wait, don't answer that, OIL. :headbang:.

I find it odd that you left off the UK and Iraq.

There's nothin in the UK that the US needs :p

Why would the US control Venezuela?

Wait, don't answer that, OIL. :headbang:.

I find it odd that you left off the UK and Iraq.

His map didn't include any overseas territory. Very odd.

So? If the UK joins the US it'll be the perfect irony. :p

how? sorry, i'm not with u :confused: :D

2 hours of sleep in 24 doesn't work well with conversation :p

There's nothin in the UK that the US needs :p

So? If the UK joins the US it'll be the perfect irony. :p

Explain how NAFTA futhers your claims of an american empire being built.

Explain how NAFTA futhers your claims of an american empire being built.

Integrating Canadian resources and Mexican labour for American business. A gradual harmonization of laws and trade practices. Working towards a 'security perimeter' around the continent. Ignoring NAFTA decisions that don't benefit them. And a political system that kowtows to big business.

It's economic Imperialism. NAFTA will integrate our economies to the point where US business will wag the dog (more so than it already does.) It works co-operatively with both nations, but also leads the forefront on continental defense.

There's nothin in the UK that the US needs :p

They've got the world's only supply of Bovril. Do you know what that means? A Bovril gap! We must seize the supply at once for our national security.

Didn't this already happen like 7 years ago?

True dat

"Empireness" is a term motivated by laziness and a lack of vocabulary, and an affornt to my bloody language.

give me the word that means "having the quality or qualities of being an empire" that isn't empireness. adding -ness onto words has a long and glorious history, particularly in academic discourse.

As for "native", A definition is difficult to procure, however, consider the following; is Athens an imperial power when its hegemony only spreads over Attica? no.

Is it an empire in the latter days of the Delian league, despite their being European? Yes.

so do you agree that overseas territories have fuck all to do with being an empire or not?

Equally, Rome rarely fully romanized an area beyond Italy, hence the question is invalid.

oh, and all of italy was roman from the dawn of time?

Didn't this already happen like 7 years ago?

*imperial march plays in the background*

Didn't this already happen like 7 years ago?

more than that. 7 years ago is when the new guy didn't quite figure out how to play the game as well as it had been previously.

Integrating Canadian resources and Mexican labour for American business. A gradual harmonization of laws and trade practices. Working towards a 'security perimeter' around the continent. Ignoring NAFTA decisions that don't benefit them. And a political system that kowtows to big business.

It's economic Imperialism. NAFTA will integrate our economies to the point where US business will wag the dog (more so than it already does.) It works co-operatively with both nations, but also leads the forefront on continental defense.


All the while NAFTA weakens the economy of the US by moving millions of high paying jobs overseas to China. This allows the corps in question to make higher profits but also increases pollution, & strengthens chinas economy. It is being done to force the world to except the one world government. But who will run this one world government America? I think not, I think we are all being sold down the river to our enemies. Money is the root of all evil, and making more money is the reason being given for all these changes.

You will probably find this funny... but here is the possible look of the American Empire. I didn't do any back research on the territories listed so this might be highly improbable; but anyway, here is a map.

Does Castro know his nation has been incorporated into your American Empire?

Does Castro know his nation has been incorporated into your American Empire?

Cuba used to be part of the US. And when Castro dies, who knows what will happen in the aftermath?

If there would ever be an empire engulfing all of North America, it would OBVIOUSLY be a Canadian empire. You ignorant Americans, you actually think your pitiful attempts to subvert us are working? Seems our propaganda machine is working. Mark my words my southern neighbours, one day you will awaken, and the flag flying on the front of your lawn will be trampled into the dirt by the might of our maple leaf.

Seriously though, I thinkt the United States probably classifies as an Empire, maybe not quite in the older Roman or British imperial sense, but a modern incarnation of an Empire. And my country? Happily going through the hate phase of our love/hate relationship with our southern dominatrix.

No, America doesn't hold any overseas territories anymore. America could have been considered an empire when we controlled the Phillipines, but now all we have is Puerto Rico,and that hardly qualifies the U.S.A. as an empire.
I do believe we have territories in the pacific.

No, America doesn't hold any overseas territories anymore. America could have been considered an empire when we controlled the Phillipines, but now all we have is Puerto Rico,and that hardly qualifies the U.S.A. as an empire.
First we had the military empire, in which a large territory was controlled directly by the subjugation of the subterritories by an overwhelming military, then the direct rule thereof. This continued for millenia (Greece, china, rome, ottoman, anything pre rennaissance in it's begginings). Then we discovered the political empire. The political empire expanded it's power by declaring political sovereignty through *threat* of overwhelming force, and conniving diplomacy. In such a manner, much larger empires could be exploited, without the need for the massive logistics required for administering each one seperately. Instead each 'colony' as they were called were left to run themselves under the supervision of a govenor. (example: Britain, portugal, Spain).

Finally, in the latter half of the 20th century we reached the latest step in the evolution of imperialism. The economic empire, where the empire isidiously seeps it's hold over a country via the economy, occasionally forcibly so through the use of force, threat of force, or threat of economic repercussions (embargoes). This empire is so diabolical in it's design, many do not even see it for what it is. (example: USA).

What is next? I suspect an information empire (example: google).

You mean...we're not an Empire yet?

We're slacking on our empire building. Time for that long planned invasion of Tonga.