NationStates Jolt Archive

It's about time someone broke those pesky Laws Of Thermodynamics.


Also, Ireland>all

Let me start by saying that I have by no means been convinced by this. I'm just trying to figure out what the hell their deal is.

Alright, to business: free energy, the principle behind so-called "perpetual motion machines", has long been the holy grail of pseudoscience. If such a device were constructed, it would provide a limitless source of free and clean energy for the world, and our problems with oil and resource wars would end forever. There's one small problem, though: free energy violates the laws of physics as we understand them (mainly the law of conservation of energy). Kind of a big deal, that.

Of course, that hasn't stopped various flavors of con-artists from jumping on the over-unity bandwagon. It is a field ripe for gullibility and fraud -- convince some investors that you're on the verge of a world-shattering discovery, milk them for all they're worth, and then hightail it with the cash. It's a great scam. Not to mention all the crackpots and conspiracy theorists tinkering in their garage, convinced their saving the world with Science™.

But now for something completely different.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/e/ee/Steorn_logo.jpg

Steorn, Ltd. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steorn), is a small Irish R&D company that has been operating since 2000, mainly in developing anti-fraud systems and providing miscellaneous technical solutions. In August of 2006, while working with CCTV camera batteries, they claimed to have hit upon a shocking discovery -- a magnetic free-energy system. And while some would call fraud or a simple publicity stunt, others have pointed out that what Steorn did next broke nearly all the rules of grifting and hoax.

An overview:
* Steorn first attempted to have their claim investigated by various scientific institutions, which all refused. The few that did take a look refused to publish their findings in any reputable journal.
* Steorn then took out a full-page, £75,000 advertisement in The Economist challenging the scientific community to validate their claim.
* They selected a group of twelve volunteer scientists to act as jurists. The length and method of testing would be left completely to the discretion of the jury. The only requirement: all findings would have to be published at the end of the testing. Testing is currently underway.
* To dispel accusations of fraud, Steorn refused to accept any investment in their technology until after it had been satisfactorily tested. They are currently running very low on cash, and are essentially risking the future of their company and finances on the success or failure of their discovery.
* Steorn makes no claims of conspiracy theories or other efforts to suppress their device apart from mere scientific incredulity.
* Steorn hosts a website and forum, and maintains regular interaction with both supporters and critics. Prominent forum members have been given tours of Steorn facilities, and have been allowed to report back to the community.
* A documentary film crew is documenting the entire trial process for posterity.

As can be expected with any new technology, very few details of the device (dubbed "Orbo") have been revealed. Steorn has stated that it is scalable, involves complex magnetic field manipulation, and can generate efficiencies of up to 400%. It has also promised that public demonstrations of the device will take place in July, followed by the production of 100,000 retail models. Based on information released thus far, some forum members speculate that the "Steorn effect" utilizes some as-of-yet-unformulated loophole in quantum mechanics.

So, what's the deal? Why would these people risk everything on a claim like this? They're not crazy, that much is apparent. It's far too expensive to be a hoax. The company was pre-existing, so it can't be a p.r. stunt for something else. And it can't be fraud, as they're refusing all forms of investment.

As much as I'd like this to be true, my personal theory is that the whole thing is a ruse. The point? The documentary film crew. If Steorn's claims are false, I'd say that the whole thing is bait designed to lure in the gullible and the idealistic, which the film crew will record and turn into an interesting and "real" look at the lengths people will go to support what they believe in, no matter the consequences or the odds. Either that, or they're trying to expose the scientific world as being just as biased and fundamentalist in their beliefs as religious folk (I certainly got that vibe from the interview linked to below).

What do you think? Is there any other explanation for Steorn's actions?

Links:
Steorn website (http://www.steorn.com/)
Steorn forum (http://www.steorn.net/forum/splash.html?p=3)
Unofficial "Noob's guide" (http://www.steorn.com/forum/comments.php?DiscussionID=42241&page=1#Item_0)
Wikipedia article (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steorn)
Video interview with Steorn founder (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YDA0oyAtNBA)

Well the first thing that pops into my head is publicity, how long have the company been running out of money?

Do they subscribe to the maxim, any publicity is good publicity? I wonder what all of this has done for the price of their shares?

Interesting. Though this whole thing (even the scientests and interviews) could be a fake :eek:

Btw, when you mention free energy as being completely against the laws of physics, you are correct. Though very hypothetically speaking, it is just about possible if you had some very very very advanced technology or something (according to my physics teacher).

Well the first thing that pops into my head is publicity, how long have the company been running out of money?
For at least a year. Company heads say that their willing to risk everything now for the payoff they claim will come in the near future.

Do they subscribe to the maxim, any publicity is good publicity? I wonder what all of this has done for the price of their shares?
Steorn is not, to my knowledge, a publicly-traded company. Besides, they have refused all forms of investment until validation is finished. That includes overeager investors who came to them willingly.

Well, I've got to go shower... I expect y'all to have this mystery solved by the time I get back. :p

I was fairies. Faires were messing with the experiments.

Well, I've got to go shower... I expect y'all to have this mystery solved by the time I get back. :p

Well I guess that if Jolt can overcome the limits of time, then anything is possible!

Energy cannot be created or destroyed, only transformed, and a free-energy system violates the Conservation of Energy principle, thus this device is scientifically impossible.

But...there's always the possibility they found some freaky quantum physics-esque way of circumventing that law, maybe thanks to a micro-singularity or something, which would definitely let them screw around enough to accomplsh this...but I don't see it happening with a magnetic device. I'll withhold full judgement, but I am extremely skeptical.

Energy cannot be created or destroyed, only transformed, and a free-energy system violates the Conservation of Energy principle, thus this device is scientifically impossible.

But...there's always the possibility they found some freaky quantum physics-esque way of circumventing that law, maybe thanks to a micro-singularity or something, which would definitely let them screw around enough to accomplsh this...but I don't see it happening with a magnetic device. I'll withhold full judgement, but I am extremely skeptical.

Watch.

They somehow managed to get a vacuum energy system to work. My jaw would drop.

I'm a skeptic on this one.

Energy cannot be created or destroyed, only transformed, and a free-energy system violates the Conservation of Energy principle, thus this device is scientifically impossible.

a few centuries ago people thought the earth was flat so to speak...

but i share your skeptical-ness.

Well I guess that if Jolt can overcome the limits of time, then anything is possible!

There is that.

A Google search for "Steorn" turned up a lot of hits, as you might imagine, and though I didn't go reading most of them, there are intimations of, if not outright fraud, at least playing fast and loose with specifications and evidence. I saw mutterings about the measurements of the energy involved, and it seems that Steorn has re-organized as a Web marketing company, which is exactly what this sounds like.

Free energy would be very cool. Why, instead of challenging scientists to disprove them and all that, why didn't they just go out and build a practical application and demonstrate it to the world? Seems simple, doesn't it? And yet ...

Watch.

They somehow managed to get a vacuum energy system to work. My jaw would drop.

I'm a skeptic on this one.

That would be quite amazing, but how could a small Irish company that works on anti-fraud systems of all things somehow figure out vacuum energy? That's like ExxonMobile inventing a new type of quantum computer.

a few centuries ago people thought the earth was flat so to speak....

No they didn't.

Free energy would be very cool. Why, instead of challenging scientists to disprove them and all that, why didn't they just go out and build a practical application and demonstrate it to the world? Seems simple, doesn't it? And yet ...


And that is very, very good point.

If they are running out of money why not just produce the damn thing, sell a few of them and let word of mouth take it's natural course?

No they didn't.

ok, they didn't but i just meant that things that were once considered a truth now look quite stupid.

Energy cannot be created or destroyed, only transformed, and a free-energy system violates the Conservation of Energy principle, thus this device is scientifically impossible.

But...there's always the possibility they found some freaky quantum physics-esque way of circumventing that law, maybe thanks to a micro-singularity or something, which would definitely let them screw around enough to accomplsh this...
That's what I'm thinking. I do get the feeling that some scientists can be far too dogmatic about their core beliefs, which is in direct violation of the principles of science. I understand skepticism, but most people who hear about things like this dismiss it out of hand, without examining the underlying claims at all. Given that their claim, if true, would be so important, and given the level of honesty and professionalism displayed thus far, I think it's reasonable to at least give them a chance to demonstrate their discovery.

but I don't see it happening with a magnetic device. I'll withhold full judgement, but I am extremely skeptical.

Watch.

They somehow managed to get a vacuum energy system to work. My jaw would drop.

I'm a skeptic on this one.

A Steorn forum member put it this way (originally quoted by Desperate Measures in another Steorn thread a few months ago):

Comment Author: Geoffrey Burns

Several explanations of the physics behind this proposed phenomenon have been aired, including several regarding why the Steorn Device would not work. Although "free energy" has been a taboo for many years and those working on it have been relegated to the realm of crackpots (or worse), this is not completely without reason: almost if not none of the established, tried-and-true physics (upon which, might I add, we have based a great deal of our lives) show any clear possibility of a process which would produce a greater sum of matter and energy leaving the process than entering. However, there are also only a few (albeit firmly established) principles of physics which prevent such a process.

The foremost such principle is the laws of thermodynamics. Although I may be wrong as I am more or less ignorant of the underlying mathematics of modern physics and I would welcome any scientifically based criticism or correction, the laws of thermodynamics might not be derivable from the laws of quantum gravity, which we have yet to formulate. The reformulated thermodynamics would necessarily have very similiar surface characteristics to the current laws, but at least one loophole would have to exist. With that prelude finished, I will discuss my favorite possibility for the new physics behind the Steorn Device and other following "free energy" devices.

This possibility is that thermodynamics contains a loophole which allows the four fundamental forces to violate conservation of mass and energy.

Currently, quantum mechanics permits this violation due to the Heisenberg uncertainty principle, but only for a short period of time, and this creates a sea of "virtual" particles - commonly referred to as vacuum energy. This is manifested in the "Casmir Effect." These "virtual" particles _do not exist_ unless and until they are made "real" by an energy field in their vicinity. Very simply, magnetism works by two particles exchanging particles, specifically in this case, photons: the more energetic the particle, the less the distance it can travel, and conversely the less energetic the particle, the greater distance it can travel (a particle with zero energy could travel an infinite distance, but would not have any affects). This is the root of magnetic fields diminishing with distance. All of the fundamental forces function similarly, with slight differences: gravity only pulls (as far as we know), the weak force is manifested by the W and Z bosons, and the strong force increases with distance and has three "colors", similar to electric charges. A summary of the forces can be found at http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu...es/funfor.html

From all of this muddle, the basic idea I generalize in accordance with this concept is that the fundamental forces violate conservation of mass and energy, albeit in a difficult-to-control manner. In this way a particle could follow a circular track and, if accelerated by static asymmetrical forces, could have more energy than when it started, which is what Steorn claims is the underlying effect of their Device.

Any other ideas?

If it seems like i thought about this a lot, I have; I am working on a project of my own, so....

Sounds coherent, at least. Keep in mind that this is just speculation from a community member, not hard info from Steorn itself.

A Google search for "Steorn" turned up a lot of hits, as you might imagine, and though I didn't go reading most of them, there are intimations of, if not outright fraud, at least playing fast and loose with specifications and evidence. I saw mutterings about the measurements of the energy involved
The only complaint I've heard is that Steorn is not exactly eager to release their technical specs to the world yet. This is a bit unwarranted, though -- the company has stated that it will release all information when the jury has proven the device to their satisfaction.

and it seems that Steorn has re-organized as a Web marketing company, which is exactly what this sounds like.
Not precisely true. They've hired a web marketing company to design their website and p.r., though.

Free energy would be very cool. Why, instead of challenging scientists to disprove them and all that, why didn't they just go out and build a practical application and demonstrate it to the world? Seems simple, doesn't it? And yet ...
They say it's because no one will take it at face value, that they need some hard scientific support to back up their claims before they try to demonstrate it to the world.

That would be quite amazing, but how could a small Irish company that works on anti-fraud systems of all things somehow figure out vacuum energy? That's like ExxonMobile inventing a new type of quantum computer.
According to the Steorn founder himself, it was an accidental discovery stumbled upon while working with CCTV camera power systems. He said "it literally fell out of that". Watch the video interview for more.

According to the Steorn founder himself, it was an accidental discovery stumbled upon while working with CCTV camera power systems. He said "it literally fell out of that". Watch the video interview for more.

I'd talk about how convenient that is, but considering a lot of other important discoveries have been accidents, such as penicillan, I'll give them the benefit of the doubt on this one.

Although penicillan was just a lump of mold, not too hard to accidently form. It is quite hard to accidently bend the laws of physics.

That makes sense however I'm struggling to see the angle the company is working if it is a fraud. No point in the whole charade if they don't make any money out of ti.

I'd talk about how convenient that is, but considering a lot of other important discoveries have been accidents, such as penicillan, I'll give them the benefit of the doubt on this one.

Although penicillan was just a lump of mold, not too hard to accidently form. It is quite hard to accidently bend the laws of physics.

Although penicillan was just a lump of mold, not too hard to accidently form. It is quite hard to accidently bend the laws of physics.

Tell that to LG ;)

That makes sense however I'm struggling to see the angle the company is working if it is a fraud. No point in the whole charade if they don't make any money out of ti.

Hence my penicillan example. I don't see any reason for a charade either, and yet...there's still the doubt.

Ifreann: Since when is his bending of the laws of physics accidental?

Hence my penicillan example. I don't see any reason for a charade either, and yet...there's still the doubt.

I totally understand the doubt. I have huge reservation about the whole thing yet it is very tempting to have hope in the whole thing ot of the worlds troubles wiped out pretty much over night.

Maybe it's just the optimist in me.

No doubt they found something but I doubt its a magnetic free-energy system, as claimed.

It is a good idea to investigate it, especially for themselves, because they said what, 400% more energy? If they have a battery that's producing four times as much as it should, wouldn't that risk overloading the CCTV camera? Alternatively, could this one battery they stumbled upon actually not be a free-energy system, but merely more efficient than they initially assumed?

Unfortunately, and quite rigthly, they haven't disclosed much information yet, but we shall see... *waits* ...I'm not holding my breath though. It's good to be optimistic, but lets be realistic and realize that there are dozens of possibilities for their observation (unpure materials being one).

I totally understand the doubt. I have huge reservation about the whole thing yet it is very tempting to have hope in the whole thing ot of the worlds troubles wiped out pretty much over night.

Maybe it's just the optimist in me.

Aye...Peak Oil would be a snap to take care of if this is what they claim it to be...presuming we could afford to replace the energy infrastructure, of course...but I wouldn't think that would be too hard with free energy at our hands...

Still...it's too close to a pipe dream just yet...

Ifreann: Since when is his bending of the laws of physics accidental?

True

*snip*The only complaint I've heard is that Steorn is not exactly eager to release their technical specs to the world yet. This is a bit unwarranted, though -- the company has stated that it will release all information when the jury has proven the device to their satisfaction.

*snip*

They say it's because no one will take it at face value, that they need some hard scientific support to back up their claims before they try to demonstrate it to the world.

Okay, I don't understand. they have this principle or something, that if implemented will provide free power for all the world. They don't believe it will work? Is that why they want a jury of scientists to pass on it? And if they produced a sample machine, and showed it off, why would they think no one would believe it? I mean, okay, there would be some skeptics, but if it really, really works, and they provide specs and information, the skeptics will come around, I imagine. Especially if they start providing free power for all the world. They sound like people with, I don't know, the trick to making fire but they won't share it because one of the other cave-people might laugh at them. Makes no sense.

So hang on a free energy device a thing so powerful and unique that it violates the very laws that we base our universe on…

…and there planning on selling this device to the general public :eek:

Okay, I don't understand. they have this principle or something, that if implemented will provide free power for all the world. They don't believe it will work? Is that why they want a jury of scientists to pass on it? And if they produced a sample machine, and showed it off, why would they think no one would believe it? I mean, okay, there would be some skeptics, but if it really, really works, and they provide specs and information, the skeptics will come around, I imagine. Especially if they start providing free power for all the world. They sound like people with, I don't know, the trick to making fire but they won't share it because one of the other cave-people might laugh at them. Makes no sense.
IIRC, there was also talk of patents and intellectual property.

This is one of the main reasons this company strikes me as so interesting. It's a bit hard to explain... you know those movies where the hero makes some awesome discovery, or knows some terrible secret -- and yet always tells it in some hysterical, raving, lunatic way so that no one believes him? Those scenarios have always irritated me -- I always think, "God, you moron, just walk up to the police/senator/scientists/whatever and explain what's going on in a rational, lucid way. Take things slow, cover all your bases, don't act like a fool, and everything will be fine." Well, here's a company doing just such a thing in real life. They're acting just like I've always wanted countless fictional people to act. They're slow, methodical, cautious, and making absolutely sure that everything is accounted for before they make a big deal out of it. If they're right, then that is a very wise thing to do.

their wikipedia page says they have less that 20 employees and yet doesn't mention a single scientist or engineer, only management and marketing types. also a comment of the youtube video made a good point - that doesn't look like a sky news interview.

IIRC, there was also talk of patents and intellectual property.

This is one of the main reasons this company strikes me as so interesting. It's a bit hard to explain... you know those movies where the hero makes some awesome discovery, or knows some terrible secret -- and yet always tells it in some hysterical, raving, lunatic way so that no one believes him? Those scenarios have always irritated me -- I always think, "God, you moron, just walk up to the police/senator/scientists/whatever and explain what's going on in a rational, lucid way. Take things slow, cover all your bases, don't act like a fool, and everything will be fine." Well, here's a company doing just such a thing in real life. They're acting just like I've always wanted countless fictional people to act. They're slow, methodical, cautious, and making absolutely sure that everything is accounted for before they make a big deal out of it. If they're right, then that is a very wise thing to do.

The cold fusion scientists sort of did the same thing, but that turned out to be false. Maybe this whole thing is just an error.

Hence my penicillan example. I don't see any reason for a charade either, and yet...there's still the doubt.

i was just thinking this could be a publicity stunt for a nascent marketing company. if they manage to persuade enough people that this is a real thing and get loads of publicity and interest and then at the end and comeout and say it was all a haux they would have established themselves as masters of marketing and publicity generation and could well end up garnering a lot of interest in those skills, so creating an instant customer base as a marketing company.

It always struck me that if you discover a device to produce free energy; you'd start producing and selling energy. Certainly if you have 75000 to spare on advertising that shouldn't be a problem.
So their business strategy seems a little ludicrous.

anyone else reminded of isaac asimov's the gods themselves? sounds like theyre stealing energy from another dimension to me.

anyone else reminded of isaac asimov's the gods themselves? sounds like theyre stealing energy from another dimension to me.Well, as long as they're not stealing it from the future, and the people from the other dimension don't come complaining, who cares. :p

their wikipedia page says they have less that 20 employees and yet doesn't mention a single scientist or engineer, only management and marketing types. also a comment of the youtube video made a good point - that doesn't look like a sky news interview.

Now that you mention it, Sky News usually has that news ticker permanently at the bottom of their screen.

The cold fusion scientists sort of did the same thing, but that turned out to be false. Maybe this whole thing is just an error.

On the other hand, after declaring in the '80s that there was absolutely, positively no chance that cold fusion could ever be possible at all, new evidence has been coming in lately that suggests, well, maybe they might have been wrong. Does that mean that cold fusion is possible? Well, not exactly, but it's not quite as impossible as was once asserted. It might even be doable someday as technology advances. Look up "palladium fusion" if you're curious.

Quick update on the Steorn front -- The company has allowed 200 forum members to sign up for an "SPDC" (http://www.steorn.com/forum/comments.php?DiscussionID=51841&page=1#Item_0) (Steorn Private Developer's Club). This isn't as hokey or fake as it sounds -- it's merely a series of free introductory lessons on the basis of the Orbo magnetic technology. All participants have signed NDAs, so slim hope of info there, but it does show you the length the company is going to connect with interested parties.

Quick update on the Steorn front -- The company has allowed 200 forum members to sign up for an "SPDC" (http://www.steorn.com/forum/comments.php?DiscussionID=51841&page=1#Item_0) (Steorn Private Developer's Club). This isn't as hokey or fake as it sounds -- it's merely a series of free introductory lessons on the basis of the Orbo magnetic technology. All participants have signed NDAs, so slim hope of info there, but it does show you the length the company is going to connect with interested parties.

A part of me is getting excited, though still very skeptical, if this is true so many of the worlds problems would be solved!

My sense of "something's not right here", which is a sense I've learned to rely on more and more in recent years, is telling me that, well... something's not right here.

I'll think about it, and do a bit of research tomorrow if I have time. If this thread is still active, I'll let you know anything I might have found out.

Here's the problem I see: Steorn has some patent applications in the pipeline, and is using this fact as evidence of how serious they are. However, they say they are not trying to patent their Orbo free energy device because 'the US patent office does not allow patents with this claim'.

Yes it does. All you need is a working model, which they claim to have. So, having come up with the biggest invention since the wheel, why aren't they patenting it?

Here's the problem I see: Steorn has some patent applications in the pipeline, and is using this fact as evidence of how serious they are. However, they say they are not trying to patent their Orbo free energy device because 'the US patent office does not allow patents with this claim'.

Yes it does. All you need is a working model, which they claim to have. So, having come up with the biggest invention since the wheel, why aren't they patenting it?
According to Wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steorn#Patents):

Patent offices such as the U.S. Patent Office, European Patent Office and the UK Patent Office have a policy of not issuing patents for devices that are alleged to operate in contravention of well established physical laws, including perpetual motion devices. Steorn has stated that, because of this patent office policy, it is not filing for a patent for the whole technology, but is filing patents for its components individually, none of which of themselves constitute a perpetual motion machine.

sure sounds like the same old same old to me.

every once in a while someone builds a better flywheel, or flywheel equivelant.
or flywheel bearing equivelent, et c.

which is all well and good, untill you start extracting the energy stored in it to try and do anything useful with it.

now there are all sorts of transparent, even "invisible" ways of pumping energy back into the system. eventualy someone may find one that is in some sense "free". but in reality the energy will still be comming from something somewhere.

there may be all sorts of energy flows waiting to be discouvered/tapped into, that most of us don't know about yet, but tangable work out, does still depend upon tangable energy in, or matter, in some form.

now ftl and gravity modulation are a couple of the other 'impossibles' that i do not feel entirely compelling convinced are. though i will also readily admit to having equaly no knowledge of any compellingly convincing ways to achieve them.

=^^=
.../\...

According to Wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steorn#Patents):

Look at the footnotes linked to that statement. In particular, look at number 40, which refers to US patents.

Infodump!

I've been doing more research on Steorn over the last few days, and have found many more interesting tidbits of information. Here's what I've found:

* Steorn has said that, while it is willing to license Orbo to manufacturers, it will give the technology to third-world food and water programs for free. A risky move, if it's all a joke -- what company would want to be caught lying about giving aid to poor communities?

* The SPDC has already started -- the Steorn forums are full of interested folk (http://www.steorn.com/forum/comments.php?DiscussionID=52191&page=1#Item_0) skirting the edge of their NDAs. Apparently, a few fence-sitters are beginning to be swayed, although a few still say that they'll need to see more "modules" (sections of the SPDC tutorial program) before they'll change their minds.

* There is talk of a "Fast In, Slow Out" magnetic experiment (http://www.steorn.com/forum/comments.php?DiscussionID=52171&page=1#Item_0) suggested by Steorn founder Sean McCarthy to forum members. I'm not quite clear on the nature of the experiment (virtual? real?), but I know it involves magnetics -- and appears to show a net energy loss in a closed system, a clear violation of conservation of energy. More scientifically-minded Generalites may want to investigate and give us a better understanding of what's going on.

* Here (http://www.steorn.com/forum/comments.php?DiscussionID=40661&page=1#Item_0) is a collection of quotes from McCarthy regarding the technology.

* The forum member "Crank" who was tasked with traveling to the company and investigating its operations has reported several pieces of information, including:

*** At least two of the jury members are high-level scientists -- "as high up the ladder as you can get".

*** An NDA from a "global manufacturing company" that is "recognizable" to the average person. This company will allegedly be constructing the device on a large scale after validation.

*** Pictures!

This is the device itself:

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/157/385441038_30b504a497.jpg

This is a larger test rig they had set up under a staircase:

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/174/384743509_986d98d09c.jpg

They explained that the larger rig is high-speed, and was located under the stairwell for safety. Steorn has since constructed a reinforced room to house the mechanism.

*** More testimony from Crank can be found here (http://www.steorn.com/forum/comments.php?DiscussionID=42241&page=1#Item_0).

* A skeptical forum member and scientist known as "Dr. Mike" is setting up a visit to Steorn's facility in April. More info here (http://steorntracker.blogspot.com/2007/03/dr-mikes-visit-in-april.html).

* I found some more videos (http://www.steorn.com/about/fun/videos.aspx) on Steorn's homepage. They include the original "challenge" video and footage of the forum-member's party.

And now, to address some questions that have come up:

Steorn is not, to my knowledge, a publicly-traded company. Besides, they have refused all forms of investment until validation is finished. That includes overeager investors who came to them willingly.
This is more clarification than an answer:

Steorn is a private limited Irish company. Shares in the company are not publicly traded. Due to the contentious nature of our technology claim the company made a decision that during the process of validation we would seek no further funding. A brief summary of our annual accounts is shown below:

Click here (http://www.steorn.com/about/investor/) for the financial info from that page.

their wikipedia page says they have less that 20 employees and yet doesn't mention a single scientist or engineer, only management and marketing types. also a comment of the youtube video made a good point - that doesn't look like a sky news interview.

I believe that interview was raw footage, not a recording of the Sky broadcast. I've seen similar footage before -- one political site I've seen had raw video of a Colbert Report "Better Know a District" segment, including scenes that had been cut from the final broadcast.

Look at the footnotes linked to that statement. In particular, look at number 40, which refers to US patents.That's the US Patent Office, though. Steorn is an Irish company. I'm not sure how their patent laws work -- although Wiki did say that both the UK and European Patent Offices have similar prohibitions against free energy devices.

Well, I believe that's everything I've found so far. I'll post again if anything new pops up.

That's the US Patent Office, though. Steorn is an Irish company. I'm not sure how their patent laws work -- although Wiki did say that both the UK and European Patent Offices have similar prohibitions against free energy devices.


That, I'd imagine, is a statement patent offices make to discourage nutters, con-men and freelance idiots from wasting their time.
This source claims that you can patent a perpetual motion machine, provided you don't call it one:
http://www.lhup.edu/~dsimanek/museum/patents.htm

In any case, it is possible (in fact essential) for Steorn to apply for a patent in the US, so as to protect their idea there, if nowhere else.

Add: At risk of being pedantic, be careful about using the term 'free energy' to mean 'perpetual motion'. A windmill is a free energy device, and I can assure you they are real.

I'm sure everyone has seen this but I havn't seen it posted:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MDV9Al0e_T0