NationStates Jolt Archive

Heres a somewhat complicated question. How do you detect espionage especially in an intellectual war?

Your question is overly broad, what exactly are you asking about, how do you determine whether or not you have spies in your agencies?

Yes. How do you detect spies or enemies amongst your ranks? How do you stop detect mutineers, defectors or anyone in your ranks who would be considered an enemy or a potential enemy?

Heres a somewhat complicated question. How do you detect espionage especially in an intellectual war?

Your question is overly broad, what exactly are you asking about, how do you determine whether or not you have spies in your agencies?

Yes. How do you detect spies or enemies amongst your ranks? How do you stop detect mutineers, defectors or anyone in your ranks who would be considered an enemy or a potential enemy?


Oftentimes you simply don't.


This sort of thing has been going on for a long time.

Are you illiterate? Why don't you do some research? Why are you asking the people here when they obviously won't know?

Yes. How do you detect spies or enemies amongst your ranks? How do you stop detect mutineers, defectors or anyone in your ranks who would be considered an enemy or a potential enemy?

you can't and any efforts to do so only cause a loss of popularity

Yes. How do you detect spies or enemies amongst your ranks? How do you stop detect mutineers, defectors or anyone in your ranks who would be considered an enemy or a potential enemy?

note, the tactics I advise should never e used on PRIVATE citizens. However if one willingly joins your intelligence ranks, they should do so under the understanding that their work habits will be subject to scrutinty.

That being said, in the typical mannor. Use secured data and high encryption methods to prevent unauthorized access. Utilize tight monitoring of phone, internet, and copy machine use in your offices. Utilize hard copy files stored in a central, guarded, and monitored location.

Additionally use methods of data dissemination where nobody, at least your low ranks, has access to all the intel, where each person only has exactly what they need to do their job and no more, and nobody has access to central data collections except your higher ups who you place in those positions only after years of service and loyalty

In short, make sure that no one person has access to too much information, and the more access one has, the more he is monitored, and the harder it is to get into those positions.

The guy I suspect is a high rank in the OACF. (Organization Against Corrupt Fundies) If he is defecting then the OACF is going to split and the half under his command is most likely going to join the enemy. (A fundy teenage clique)

Advice?

Assign Jack Bauer to find the spies. Whatever their plans, everything will be resolved within 24 hours.

Heres a somewhat complicated question. How do you detect espionage especially in an intellectual war?

Ask the guy hiding in the bushes.


Oh, wait! That's me. :)

The guy I suspect is a high rank in the OACF. (Organization Against Corrupt Fundies) If he is defecting then the OACF is going to split and the half under his command is most likely going to join the enemy. (A fundy teenage clique)

Advice?

Jack Bauer is disgusted at this false alarm. He's going to break your fingers unless you tell him where the bomb is, NOW.

For instance, I worked for a time at the US Attorney's Office or the First District. They had a room with classified files in it.

To get to that room you first had to pass through main security, guarded by US Marshalls. If you did not have an ID, you were not allowed in with ANY elctronic equipment. No phones, cameras, MP3 players, blackberries, nothing.

Then you had to go to the 9th floor, up an elevator (monitored). And through another locked door. That door only opens if you have an electronic key card programmed to let you in.

Then past another room of offices to ANOTHER locked door, again, only a special keycard lets you in. Any attempt to force the door sets off an alarm and armed security forces arrive within 60 seconds asking you none too politely what the hell you think you are doing. There is a camera pointed at the door.

Once inside the room there is no online computer systems. Everything is stand alone. There is exactly 1 photo copier in the room, and everything that is copied is scanned and stored so they know exactly what you copied, and when. There is another camera pointed at this copier.

The only computer in the world that can code the necessary security codes sits in a locked office behind bullet proof glass, in the US marshall's office.

There is NO way you are getting in that room, grabbing something, making it down 9 flights of stairs, and then out the door.

The guy I suspect is a high rank in the OACF. (Organization Against Corrupt Fundies) If he is defecting then the OACF is going to split and the half under his command is most likely going to join the enemy. (A fundy teenage clique)

Advice?

Advice?

Um...take your lithium?

also, from time to time, place in false, trackable data.



Ask the guy hiding in the bushes.


Oh, wait! That's me. :)


Damit... wait... then who was that person in the mudhole? :confused:

For instance, I worked for a time at the US Attorney's Office or the First District. They had a room with classified files in it.

To get to that room you first had to pass through main security, guarded by US Marshalls. If you did not have an ID, you were not allowed in with ANY elctronic equipment. No phones, cameras, MP3 players, blackberries, nothing.

Then you had to go to the 9th floor, up an elevator (monitored). And through another locked door. That door only opens if you have an electronic key card programmed to let you in.

Then past another room of offices to ANOTHER locked door, again, only a special keycard lets you in. Any attempt to force the door sets off an alarm and armed security forces arrive within 60 seconds asking you none too politely what the hell you think you are doing. There is a camera pointed at the door.

Once inside the room there is no online computer systems. Everything is stand alone. There is exactly 1 photo copier in the room, and everything that is copied is scanned and stored so they know exactly what you copied, and when. There is another camera pointed at this copier.

The only computer in the world that can code the necessary security codes sits in a locked office behind bullet proof glass, in the US marshall's office.

There is NO way you are getting in that room, grabbing something, making it down 9 flights of stairs, and then out the door.

The guy I suspect communicates mainly by phone, and by forum, his actions seem to involve less and less winning, in fact the reason I suspect him is he makes false moves that seem to be on purpose especially when we actually are getting somewhere. I created an alternate account on the other forum and used the e-mail function to send him a message in which I was pretending to be an enemy spy to find out his reaction. He knew that the alternate account was using e-mail however he did not tell me about the message yet he did not follow my alternate ego's orders so his loyalty is questionable, he did not report the message nor did he ask for the information by 'mole account' if you will, wanted.

exactly what the hell are you on about? That someone in your super secret clubhouse might be going and forming an extra super extra secret club house of his own and won't let you in?

I'm on about him joining the enemy side, and if I knew he wouldn't hinder my side from completing its objectives then I would just say go ahead, make your own team.

The guy I suspect communicates mainly by phone, and by forum, his actions seem to involve less and less winning, in fact the reason I suspect him is he makes false moves that seem to be on purpose especially when we actually are getting somewhere. I created an alternate account on the other forum and used the e-mail function to send him a message in which I was pretending to be an enemy spy to find out his reaction. He knew that the alternate account was using e-mail however he did not tell me about the message yet he did not follow my alternate ego's orders so his loyalty is questionable, he did not report the message nor did he ask for the information by 'mole account' if you will, wanted.


exactly what the hell are you on about? That someone in your super secret clubhouse might be going and forming an extra super extra secret club house of his own and won't let you in?

I'm on about him joining the enemy side, and if I knew he wouldn't hinder my side from completing its objectives then I would just say go ahead, make your own team.

what "side"? What "objectives"?

If you want to be taken seriously, I suggest you explain, quite clearly, exactly what "sides" you're talking about, what "objective" you're concerned with, and what the hell it is you're trying to do here.

All I'm getting out of this is that it's one big game of "let's pretend we're doing something important". Shouldn't this be in the RP thread? I feel like I'm reading the first chapter of The Sound and the Fury all over again.

Is this ooc?

Heres a somewhat complicated question. How do you detect espionage especially in an intellectual war?just what is an "intellectual war" ?

what "side"? What "objectives"?

If you want to be taken seriously, I suggest you explain, quite clearly, exactly what "sides" you're talking about, what "objective" you're concerned with, and what the hell it is you're trying to do here.

All I'm getting out of this is that it's one big game of "let's pretend we're doing something important". Shouldn't this be in the RP thread? I feel like I'm reading the first chapter of The Sound and the Fury all over again.

The corrupt fundy clique are experts at screwing with people's minds, and they enjoy using it for entertainment, so all the victims to their schemes got together and now we want to stop their mental oppression. Corrupt fundies are ALL experts at screwing with heads from age 12. So the OACF (our side) wants to try to prove their interpretation of the bible false (by using arguments that prove they are not true Christians and that their actions are not expressed by true Christians) and prove their hypocrites so they lose their power (the clique is favored in the Fundy school they go to and they abuse their power and break the rules but rarely get in trouble because their parents are in the admin) if the clique is forced to follow the rules like everyone else then its a happy ending.

For humour purposes

How to detect a spy:

Does his car have more buttons then usual?
Is he sleeping with the highest ranking women in your command?
Is he British?
Does he say his sirname first, when introducing himself?
If you have access to his room, is there a gun under his pillow?
Is he addicted to gambling?

The corrupt fundy clique are experts at screwing with people's minds, and they enjoy using it for entertainment, so all the victims to their schemes got together and now we want to stop their mental oppression. Corrupt fundies are ALL experts at screwing with heads from age 12. So the OACF (our side) wants to try to prove their interpretation of the bible false (by using arguments that prove they are not true Christians and that their actions are not expressed by true Christians) and prove their hypocrites so they lose their power (the clique is favored in the Fundy school they go to and they abuse their power and break the rules but rarely get in trouble because their parents are in the admin) if the clique is forced to follow the rules like everyone else then its a happy ending.

Listen, before we can talk, I need you to find a thin metal material and cover your head with it. Preferably tin foil. We must block teh governments brain opression waves!!

The corrupt fundy clique are experts at screwing with people's minds, and they enjoy using it for entertainment, so all the victims to their schemes got together and now we want to stop their mental oppression. Corrupt fundies are ALL experts at screwing with heads from age 12. So the OACF (our side) wants to try to prove their interpretation of the bible false (by using arguments that prove they are not true Christians and that their actions are not expressed by true Christians) and prove their hypocrites so they lose their power (the clique is favored in the Fundy school they go to and they abuse their power and break the rules but rarely get in trouble because their parents are in the admin) if the clique is forced to follow the rules like everyone else then its a happy ending.

Jesus christ you're insane...seriously, is this some roleplaying thing that ended up in the wrong forum or are you just that cracked?

just what is an "intellectual war" ?

A war where you fight to get people on your side, an example would be Fundies trying full pelt to convert others. A war where you are trying to get others to your side or your point of view.

The OACF point of view is that true Christians do not use psychological tactics to get their ends, and that God wanted us all to have free will (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Communism#Establishing_Christian_communism).

The clique believes that everyone one should be monotone or the same and conform to whatever the pastor or whatever the leader guy says unquestionably and that the leader guy should have unquestionable leadership, basically Chrisians Communism
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Communism).

Jesus christ you're insane...seriously, is this some roleplaying thing that ended up in the wrong forum or are you just that cracked?

What makes you say that?

just what is an "intellectual war" ?

a war dealing and using information instead of weapons. Hackers, viruses, spyware, mis-information, all are part of an Intellectual War.

think about the Cold War.

What makes you say that?

because this whole thing reeks of paranoid fantasies and dillusions of grandeur?

Athais...for God sake what I'm telling you people is the truth, I even have links of the ideologies backing me up. I can prove this is happening.

A war where you fight to get people on your side, an example would be Fundies trying full pelt to convert others. A war where you are trying to get others to your side or your point of view.

The OACF point of view is that true Christians do not use psychological tactics to get their ends, and that God wanted us all to have free will (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Communism#Establishing_Christian_communism).

The clique believes that everyone one should be monotone or the same and conform to whatever the pastor or whatever the leader guy says unquestionably and that the leader guy should have unquestionable leadership, basically Chrisians Communism
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Communism).

Can you give me some real life examples of these "fundie cliqeus"?

Hey Lunatic Goofballs remember the OACF recruitment I ahd here? Tell Arthais, theres proof for ya.

Athais...for God sake what I'm telling you people is the truth, I even have links of the ideologies backing me up. I can prove this is happening.

You can prove that christian fundamentalists are trying to convert people?

Great job sherlock!

Can you give me some real life examples of these "fundie cliqeus"?

Willgrove was harassed fundy bitch who tried to covert him to her religion then tried to convince everyone he raped her when he refused to recant catholicism, this case matched instances several OACF members had before joining, hence the reason they joined. She was trying to use social force to convert him, which is an act of intellectual war because it involves turning society against a person if he doesn't meet certain demands.

You can prove that christian fundamentalists are trying to convert people?

Great job sherlock!

Yeah so I'm not insane, where does it say age matters huh? Use your brains. Logistically after the notion that fundies try to convert people the further thought occurs that they indoctrinate their children, and since the setting is a fundy school filled with teenagers there has to be cliques around because it is in a teenager's nature to stick with the groups hi fits in best at least in America anyway, as far as I know this clique business barely occurs elsewhere.

Willgrove was harassed fundy bitch who tried to covert him to her religion then tried to convince everyone he raped her when he refused to recant catholicism, this case matched instances several OACF members had before joining, hence the reason they joined. She was trying to use social force to convert him, which is an act of intellectual war because it involves turning society against a person if he doesn't meet certain demands.

But your fighting no one. This sort of thing is not institutionalised, there is no organization whos aim is to use psychological warfare to try and convert people, there are a few nutcases around but they are not under a collective group. Your group is pointless.

basically Chrisians Communism
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Communism).

Have you even read that Wikipedia article?

You demonstrate no understanding of the concept.

Heres a somewhat complicated question. How do you detect espionage especially in an intellectual war?

Simple. Counter-espionage.

But your fighting no one. This sort of thing is not institutionalised, there is no organization whos aim is to use psychological warfare to try and convert people, there are a few nutcases around but they are not under a collective group. Your group is pointless.

Pointless eh? Its everywhere in the US, propaganda from one group or another is everywhere, television, t-shirts you name it. Its even in the music. As stated in another thread entertainment is no longer seperate from politics or views. And you say the OACF is pointless.

Have you even read that Wikipedia article?

You demonstrate no understanding of the concept.

They want everyone to have the exact same views, if you don't they harass you.

And you say the OACF is pointless.

Yes, yes I do.

Yeah so I'm not insane, where does it say age matters huh? Use your brains. Logistically after the notion that fundies try to convert people the further thought occurs that they indoctrinate their children, and since the setting is a fundy school filled with teenagers there has to be cliques around because it is in a teenager's nature to stick with the groups hi fits in best at least in America anyway, as far as I know this clique business barely occurs elsewhere.

yes, but...so the fuck what.

OK, we get that groups try to convert people. We get that in efforts to convert theyoften use propoganda and coersion and misinformation. This is nothing new. Every rational person understands this, every rational person is aware of this.

Where you go off into the deep end of bizarro world is where you start talking about a war going on, and about how your organization is somehow embroiled in this war, AND that your "agent" in this war is covertly subverting your "authority" and comitting some form of espionage.

I get that people tend to dislike tactics christian fundamentalists use. What I don't get is this extreme dillusion of grandeur that makes you act like some officer embroiled in a bitter war, leading your troops and fearing deception lurking in the shadows.

Normal people get on with their damned lives without pretending to be some sort of god commando.

and I assume the irony of you being fearful that someone might convince others to not belong to a group designed to combat people hostile to those that don't think just like them is rather lost on you.

yes, but...so the fuck what.

OK, we get that groups try to convert people. We get that in efforts to convert theyoften use propoganda and coersion and misinformation. This is nothing new. Every rational person understands this, every rational person is aware of this.

Where you go off into the deep end of bizarro world is where you start talking about a war going on, and about how your organization is somehow embroiled in this war, AND that your "agent" in this war is covertly subverting your "authority" and comitting some form of espionage.

I get that people tend to dislike tactics christian fundamentalists use. What I don't get is this extreme dillusion of grandeur that makes you act like some officer embroiled in a bitter war, leading your troops and fearing deception lurking in the shadows.

Normal people get on with their damned lives without pretending to be some sort of god commando.

http://images.google.com/images?svnum=10&hl=en&gbv=2&q=why+mommy+is+a+democrat&btnG=Search
http://www.foxnews.com/printer_friendly_story/0,3566,252747,00.html
http://www.religioustolerance.org/hallo_he.htm
http://www.thoseshirts.com/
(http://www.thoseshirts.com/)
liberal lies about Bush, he maybe evil but this... (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-fSR19q51Qk&NR)

and I assume the irony of you being fearful that someone might convince others to not belong to a group designed to combat people hostile to those that don't think just like them is rather lost on you.

Fine then I'll list the other motive I have then, this is a childish conflict between two teenage groups who have different ideologies and our group wants revenge for what the other bigger group does to others and did to us. Happy Arthais? Is it your life mission to make me look low?

http://images.google.com/images?svnum=10&hl=en&gbv=2&q=why+mommy+is+a+democrat&btnG=Search
http://www.foxnews.com/printer_friendly_story/0,3566,252747,00.html
http://www.religioustolerance.org/hallo_he.htm
http://www.thoseshirts.com/
(http://www.thoseshirts.com/)
liberal lies about Bush, he maybe evil but this... (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-fSR19q51Qk&NR)


and I repeat so the fuck what?

and I repeat so the fuck what?

Hmmmm whats on those sites...Oh yeah! Things designed to manipulate others. It looks like there is an intellectual war going on or else there'd be no purpose to advertise or create such things.

Heres a somewhat complicated question. How do you detect espionage especially in an intellectual war?

What's the difference between an intellectual war and a regular war? Is it a war fought by geniuses or something?


*reads thread*


Dude, you have way too much time on your hands.

What's the difference between an intellectual war and a regular war? Is it a war fought by geniuses or something?

No. It's fought...


































by psychics. :p

"Dew dew dew dew doo doo doo...

swsh swsh swsh swsh ninyinyinyinyi." [/SPREF]

http://images.google.com/images?svnum=10&hl=en&gbv=2&q=why+mommy+is+a+democrat&btnG=Search


Wtf has this got to do with teh fundie's? This is allegedly democrat propagander.

http://www.foxnews.com/printer_frien...252747,00.html

Yes I admit they are terrible people, but they arn't really successful in converting people. Their church is made up almsot completely of their family.

http://www.religioustolerance.org/hallo_he.htm

This is a very tiny case, hardly a revolutionary power.

http://www.thoseshirts.com/

Wtf does pro american conservative shirts have to do with psychological conversion?

[/QUOTE]
liberal lies about Bush, he maybe evil but this...
[/QUOTE]

Ok now you've lost me, this seems completely irrelevant to fundamentalist brainwashing.

Fine then I'll list the other motive I have then, this is a childish conflict between two teenage groups who have different ideologies and our group wants revenge for what the other bigger group does to others and did to us.

We knew that already.

Is it your life mission to make me look low?

No, you do a good job of that by yourself. I suggest thinking before you post to consider how what you say reflects on you.

Wtf has this got to do with teh fundie's? This is allegedly democrat propagander.



Yes I admit they are terrible people, but they arn't really successful in converting people. Their church is made up almsot completely of their family.



This is a very tiny case, hardly a revolutionary power.



Wtf does pro american conservative shirts have to do with psychological conversion?


liberal lies about Bush, he maybe evil but this...


Ok now you've lost me, this seems completely irrelevant to fundamentalist brainwashing.

All that was just to prove that there is an intellectual war going one between many groups, it wasn't meant to have much to do with fundies other than the fact that they use crooked tactics.

All that was just to prove that there is an intellectual war going one between many groups, it wasn't meant to have much to do with fundies other than the fact that they use crooked tactics.

So you are waging a war against propagander?

We knew that already.



No, you do a good job of that by yourself. I suggest thinking before you post to consider how what you say reflects on you.

The reason why I don't hesitate to post some things is because I want to test theories, if theres something wrong with me tell me about it in a detailed manner, if theres something wrong with a theory I propose point out it's error so that I can correct it. Thats what I always do or try at least.

So you are waging a war against propagander?

On brainwash.

The reason why I don't hesitate to post some things is because I want to test theories, if theres something wrong with me tell me about it in a detailed manner, if theres something wrong with a theory I propose point out it's error so that I can correct it. Thats what I always do or try at least.

If you don't have the fortitude and wherewithal to tie someone to a chair, shine a flash light in his eyes and hit him in the face with a rubber hose, you're going to lose your oh-so-dramatic-:rolleyes: little teenage crybaby 'war.'

If you don't have the fortitude and wherewithal to tie someone to a chair, shine a flash light in his eyes and hit him in the face with a rubber hose, you're going to lose your oh-so-dramatic-:rolleyes: little teenage crybaby 'war.'

You haven't really taken part in an espionage/counter espoinage war till you've attached electrodes to someones genitals.

If you don't have the fortitude and wherewithal to tie someone to a chair, shine a flash light in his eyes and hit him in the face with a rubber hose, you're going to lose your oh-so-dramatic-:rolleyes: little teenage crybaby 'war.'

Whats so crybaby? I am a major threat to their power right now, they most likely fear me as much as I fear them.

Whats so crybaby? I am a major threat to their power right now, they most likely fear me as much as I fear them.

The power of a teenager's clique.......

Whats so crybaby? I am a major threat to their power right now, they most likely fear me as much as I fear them.

I hope you copy all this down in a diary or something, or keep a transcript, or some kind of record.

In a few years, you're going to be gnashing your teeth and red-faced with embarrassment.

The power of a teenager's clique.

Its happened before in public schools, where one clique is gains repect from the admin thus they get powers. Ever see "Bang bang you dead? The Jocks got tons of power just because they made he school look big with their sports skills in competitions however they were allowed to bully people and get away with it. Only in this case the victims of the bullies are using legality rather than guns to win. We point out their errors and corruption people demand better management.

Beet red, fire engine red, red as mars...

huh?:confused:

Its happened before in public schools, where one clique is gains repect from the admin thus they get powers. Ever see "Bang bang you dead? The Jocks got tons of power just because they made he school look big with their sports skills in competitions however they were allowed to bully people and get away with it. Only in this case the victims of the bullies are using legality rather than guns to win. We point out their errors and corruption people demand better management.

Beet red, fire engine red, red as mars...

I hope you copy all this down in a diary or something, or keep a transcript, or some kind of record.

In a few years, you're going to be gnashing your teeth and red-faced with embarrassment.

People like this end up one of two ways. Either 10 years rom now they look back and go "wow, I was such a tool" or, 10 years from now they end up in a bunker using generators for power and having about 375 copies of catcher in the rye.

Its happened before in public schools, where one clique is gains repect from the admin thus they get powers. Ever see "Bang bang you dead? The Jocks got tons of power just because they made he school look big with their sports skills in competitions however they were allowed to bully people and get away with it. Only in this case the victims of the bullies are using legality rather than guns to win. We point out their errors and corruption people demand better management.

Wow, America must suck. We don't have jocks here, and people don't get away with bullying if they make the school look good.