NationStates Jolt Archive

I wouldn't normally quote the Mirror or the Mail (somebody sent me the link), but this is interesting.


Schoolkids weep as pig is butchered, skinned & eaten

[...]

Graphic scenes from BBC's Kill It, Cook It, Eat It show smoke coming out of a pig's head as it collapses after being electrocuted. Abattoir staff then hang the twitching animal up by its legs and cut its throat, sending blood gushing to the floor.

Audience members including schoolkids watch behind a glass screen and some weep as the pig is thrown into boiling water and skinned. Earlier a film showed the same animal as a cute piglet.

After the animal is dead, a butcher carves it up and cooks it - and guests tuck into meat they saw alive only minutes before. In other episodes a cow is sawn in half and a lamb's head is cut off, in an effort to "reconnect" us with the meat we buy.

[...]

Beef farmer Ken Howie told presenter Richard Johnson: "I do question whether the general public needs to see that."


Another disgusted woman said: "It actually made me feel sick seeing an animal being killed just for TV."


But BBC Three controller Julian Bellamy said: "There is a desire to learn where the food we eat comes from and how that food reaches our plate. It will get people talking."


(Source (http://www.sundaymirror.co.uk/news/tm_headline=slaughter---live-on-tv--&method=full&objectid=18703505&siteid=62484-name_page.html))


Heavily plugged and promoted, the programme makers insist this isn't just a ratings-grabbing bloodfest, but an attempt to question modern Britain's relationship with the food we eat - to reconnect people with the animals that fill the shrink-wrapped packets of meat they buy in the supermarket.

Planning on sticking a leg of roast lamb in front of the family this Easter? Then isn't it your responsibility to know where the animal came from, how it was reared and how it was killed?

Or is that just a load of middle-class, sentimentalist angst? They are only animals after all and if you're really that worried about it, then isn't the simple answer not to do it, to go vegetarian? After all, saying sorry to your sausages, crying over your casseroles, is all a bit After The Lord Mayor's Show.

The truth is, of course, that like most people, I try not to think about it too deeply. I eat meat because I like the taste of it, and don't want thoughts of butchery and brutality to spoil that pleasure.

[...]

Whether the outing was intended to be educational, or was in fact some sort of punishment, I am unsure (the presence of "Killer" Carnegie, the school's PE teacher, on the trip may well have been significant) but it has remained with me ever since.

In stunned silence we watched chicken after chicken being hung by their feet from a conveyor belt before being electrocuted, having their throats slit and then immersed in boiling water to remove their feathers.

The finale was watching a hangar-full of hair-netted women pick the flesh from the carcasses as they passed by on a conveyor belt. I have never eaten chicken paste since. I was put off by the smell and the sights and, anyway, it's not that much of a sacrifice.

But I'm far more worried about the lamb. It's a big mammal, with lots of blood, and I'm concerned that I might be put off all meat for life. I don't want to be. I like it too much. And I don't really like vegetarians. They make life complicated when they come round for dinner.

[...]

I'm doing fine so far but it's the transition from sheep to meat that gets me. As he passes down the line his feet and head are cut off, the pelt peeled back and the guts tumbled out.

The carcass is steaming and I feel nauseous, a feeling that reaches cheek-bulging proportions when I place a hand on the pink, slightly sticky, ribcage. It's hot and the flesh is soft, gelatinous. And yet no longer alive.

A few yards on and the bureaucracy kicks on. The carcass is weighed, visually checked for signs of disease, stamped by the inspectors and then a joint of meat cut out and handed to me. I hold it in my bare hands and feel that heat again, the muscles ticking, the flesh twitching, and enough's enough. I'm out of there.

[...]

In the meantime, I reflect on the experience and am surprised how much it has affected me.

I'm very aware that what I've seen is top practice - a good farmer producing a welllooked after animal that is killed as humanely as possible in a well-run abattoir. This is not how the majority of meat we eat is produced, and that should be real cause for concern.


(Source (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=439763&in_page_id=1770))

The webpage of the programme itself:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/bbcthree/programmes/kill_it/


Do you ever find yourself indulging in a meat feast and wondering how the animal made its way to your plate?

Presenter Richard Johnson is here to bring together the two key moments that are usually separated in our lives and minds: the death of the animal and the eating of its meat.

In each programme, we trace the journey of one animal from its life on the farm to its fate at a small working abattoir. At the abattoir, a group of specially invited people, from vegetarians to meat enthusiasts, will witness the slaughter.

They'll also see how the carcass is prepared, with our butcher breaking it down and explaining the different cuts of meat. Our chef Rachel Green will then demonstrate what to do with them.

Once the meal is ready, the audience is invited to taste the meat. But after witnessing the entire process, will they have the stomach for it?


I usually stay off this topic, because some people tend to get very defensive about it, but this is unusual enough for me to bring it up.

Thoughts / comments?

We have become little wussies, haven't we?

Vegetarians should not produce documentaries.

They don't grow in their little styrofoam containers.

A friend of mine used to assert that we had to eat the cows, to prevent the cows from rising up and eating us. Now given that article about the carnivorous cow, maybe he was right...:eek:

It's the truthiness! If we don't eat them, they'll eat us!

In the words of Jim Gaffigan, "Fun to pet, better to chew."

May well be alot more veggies around after this programme airs.

In the words of Jim Gaffigan, "Fun to pet, better to chew."

A friend of mine used to assert that we had to eat the cows, to prevent the cows from rising up and eating us. Now given that article about the carnivorous cow, maybe he was right...:eek:

I saw the bit with the pig being zapped and slashed while I was flicking through. It was pretty gross, but I wouldn't say disturbing.

From what I understand, after the shock the animal is pretty much dead, and that all the twitching and squirming from that point is just reflex.

Well, since I dont like pork or beef products, I dont have to feel guitly :D
Watching a chicken or fish slaughtered really isnt that bad. Actually, its rather amusing to watch the chicken walk around, when they do.
Hell, I've slaughtered (gutted, if you will) fish myself. Once you get over the 'Am I really going to violate this fish rectally with a knife?' thing its easy.

They don't grow in their little styrofoam containers.

I think that's the point the programme is trying to make.

Well, knowing where the food came from actually increase my pleasure of eating it.

Vegetarians should not produce documentaries.

It wasn't made by vegetarians. Read before you comment.

That's an interesting reaction, though. Why not?

Thoughts / comments?I think it's fine. People should know the consequences of their behaviour whenever it's possible. Otherwise they're robbed of the ability to make their own decisions.We have become little wussies, haven't we?Indeed, though there's something to be said for how it's done as well. I kilt a few hens on a farm as a kid (for eating, mind), yet gutting pigs in a factory was too damn much for me. It's the 'industrialised massacre' thing. It's a bit ... intense.Vegetarians should not produce documentaries.Why not?

Arguably a veggie's more objective in this case. No interest in making the industry look different than it is. Oh wait... You're one of those weird paranoid omnivores who think veggies are out to take your meat away, aren't you?

.. Well have fun with that. Might want to try a real religion though, they're usually more fun. Unless, of course, it's too complicated for you.

Unless you decide you're going to go vegetarian this is a rather insolvable dilemma.

So I deal with it as I usually do with unsolvable dilemmas: Not thinking about it and feeling bad every time I'm shocked into remembering, then back to not thinking about it.

And that's only in regards to modern evil mass-production ways of keeping and slaughtering animals, meaning I'm busy enough not thinking about that to feel good when I buy only organic meat.

So not thinking about animals being slaughtered for that meat, too, is rather far down on the list.

In the end it boils down to: I want to eat it, I'm trying to eat only the stuff that's been as "humanely" produced as possibly, I know that I would get sick seeing the animals slaughtered, hence I try not to think about it.

Classy.

They don't grow in their little styrofoam containers.

Not yet. However if they could ram them in there, some fucker would. People should be more worried about the time preceding the killing rather than the event itself. Those factory farming techniques are awful. Seen pics from the inside of a chicken farm run like that and I've avoided the stuff since.

This won't make meat any less delicious.

This won't make meat any less delicious.

If anything, it'll make it more delicious.

</sadist>

It is a good thing when folks reconnect with what they do or what they cause to be done. And there is no reason why kids should not know how things really are. And the woman who dumbly said "It actually made me feel sick seeing an animal being killed just for TV" should be informed that normally the animals are not slaughtered for TV but for eating.

Note: These numbers do not include aquatic animals, for whom there is no official count. As well, the statistics do not include animals who died either on the farm or in transit, who number more than 100 million animals per year.

Commercial Slaughter Statistics

* Chickens: 8.68 billion (down less than 1 percent from 2002)
* Turkeys: 267 million (down less than 1 percent from 2002)
* Ducks: 24.3 million (up 1 percent from 2002)
* Cattle: 35.5 million (down 1 percent from 2002)
* Calves: 1 million (down 4 percent from 2002)
* Pigs: 101 million (up 1 percent from 2002)
* Sheep and Lambs: 2.98 million (down 9 percent from 2002)

Total Number of Animals Slaughtered for Food: 9.1 billion

I think it's fine. People should know the consequences of their behaviour whenever it's possible. Otherwise they're robbed of the ability to make their own decisions.

[...]

Arguably a veggie's more objective in this case. No interest in making the industry look different than it is. Oh wait... You're one of those weird paranoid omnivores who think veggies are out to take your meat away, aren't you?


Indeed. I don't see how anyone can object to someone revealing objective reality. It's then up to each individual to see how they want to react to the knowledge.


People should be more worried about the time preceding the killing rather than the event itself. Those factory farming techniques are awful. Seen pics from the inside of a chicken farm run like that and I've avoided the stuff since.

Excellent point. And thanks, United Beleriand, for those numbers.

Another disgusted woman said: "It actually made me feel sick seeing an animal being killed just for TV."

Maybe someone should point out to this 'disgusted' woman that the animal would have been killed even if the programme hadn't been made.

I saw the programme and found it quite interesting. I was fully aware beforehand as to how an animal gets from the farm to the shrinkwrapped polystyrene container in the supermarket chiller section, but to actually see it happen is very interesting. I wish I'd been there first hand to see it, rather than just on tv.

As sick seeming as it was, this is not really newsworthy. Nature isn't exactly nice to these creatures either...remember that if hunted most would be eaten while still alive by wolves or mountain lions or whathever other large predators hunt. We're at least merciful enough to kill them before eating them.

Furthermore, I find the idea that people are disgusted by this disgusting in and of itself. Where did they think our meat came from? We used to have to do this by hand by ourselves for many centuries before modern society brought us the ability to let butchers and farmers do it all for us, so why are we gasping in fright and disgust? What's sickening is that people find this sickening. Grow up.

Having seen the program I can only say that it is a daming demonstraigtion of how animals are raised in industrial farming. I hope that some day it will stop and we eat less meat but of much better quality (both taste, and ethical).

One think that always suprises me is how many people seem totally unaware that meat comes from a dead animal. One girl I know because vegitatrian because she found a vein in her chicken burger.

In a later discussion I can only conclude that she did not know where the meat came from. :confused:

Lol 9 BILLION chicken killed in 2003 in the US alone. That is amazing.

And the way you kill a pig, cow or chicken does matter, because if you make the animal afraid, he releases a lot of hormones in its blood stream which makes the meat tastes diferent.

Lol 9 BILLION chicken killed in 2003 in the US alone. That is amazing.

And the way you kill a pig, cow or chicken does matter, because if you make the animal afraid, he releases a lot of hormones in its blood stream which makes the meat tastes diferent.

Aye, there is that problem. What I was talking about was the idea of being concerned about the slaughter at all. Obviously electrocution and other methods used in industrial farming are ridiculously unnecessary. There are plenty of ways to kill an animal while preventing it from feeling fear. Release a small amount of gas that causes them to sleep in a room where they are in, for example, and then while they're asleep either cut their heads off or pump in another type of gas to choke them to death and they'll never notice.

Oh, wow. Animals are killed in all sorts of violent ways for food. I didn't know that, I thought meat grew from trees. :rolleyes:

If people have a problem with the fact that animals are killed and turned into food, there's a rather simple solution to that. I don't like the idea of industrialised animal slaughter either, but I enjoy meat and am willing to accept that it's necessary if I want to eat it (although I am trying to cut back on the amount I consume).

Lol 9 BILLION chicken killed in 2003 in the US alone. That is amazing.

And the way you kill a pig, cow or chicken does matter, because if you make the animal afraid, he releases a lot of hormones in its blood stream which makes the meat tastes diferent.


Yep, which is why they should be ninjaed from behind with a big mallet.

Lol 9 BILLION chicken killed in 2003 in the US alone. That is amazing.

And the way you kill a pig, cow or chicken does matter, because if you make the animal afraid, he releases a lot of hormones in its blood stream which makes the meat tastes diferent.

*munches burger*
Mmmmm, I can taste their fear.

*munches burger*
Mmmmm, I can taste their fear.


Hehehe. 'Gimme one that saw it comin'.....

If you tip a cow on it's side, can it get up?

I've been around cows. I know cows very well. Kill the bitches. I want tacos. :)

Nature isn't exactly nice to these creatures either...remember that if hunted most would be eaten while still alive by wolves or mountain lions or whathever other large predators hunt.

True, but hardly relevent. Unless you're saying humans should not have ethics to distinguish them in any way from other animals?


We're at least merciful enough to kill them before eating them.


Yes, but the issue raised is how they are killed, and especially how they're raised before being killed. On this point, at least, they'd be far better off in the wild.


Furthermore, I find the idea that people are disgusted by this disgusting in and of itself. Where did they think our meat came from? We used to have to do this by hand by ourselves for many centuries before modern society brought us the ability to let butchers and farmers do it all for us, so why are we gasping in fright and disgust?

Their ignorance and/or ability to shield themselves from reality is disturbing, yes.


Having seen the program I can only say that it is a daming demonstraigtion of how animals are raised in industrial farming.


Worse: Note that the conditions they're raised in, as shown in this programme, are far less inhumane than average.


One think that always suprises me is how many people seem totally unaware that meat comes from a dead animal. One girl I know because vegitatrian because she found a vein in her chicken burger.

In a later discussion I can only conclude that she did not know where the meat came from.

Seriously? Wow.

True, but hardly relevent. Unless you're saying humans should not have ethics to distinguish them in any way from other animals?

Yes, but the issue raised is how they are killed, and especially how they're raised before being killed. On this point, at least, they'd be far better off in the wild.


Aye. My point was that animals will die regardless and it seemed to me some of these kids had a Bambi-esque view of the wild when that just isn't true and I added that to my rant.

I do agree that the method of killing needs to be changed significantly. At the moment it is unethical, overly abusive, and can create problems for us, such as noted in the post above about fear causing the meat to taste different. We need more humane ways of killing animals, though they should probably be industrializable like the current methods are so we don't run into problems.

That BBC program is racist because it stigmatizes muslims, who like halal slaughter. Well maybe it doesn't stigmatize them directly, but most definately indirectly.

/sarcasm off

Yes, but the issue raised is how they are killed, and especially how they're raised before being killed. On this point, at least, they'd be far better off in the wild.

I don't think you've ever been out in the wild.

I don't think you've ever been out in the wild.

Shhhh!

Don't tell him/her that animals don't live in Beatrix Potter societies.

Better not mention where Christmas presents and Easter eggs really come from either...

I don't think you've ever been out in the wild.

Are you saying that animals have a better life in an industrial farm than in their natural habitat? You honestly believe that? I dont think you have ever been out in the wild or you have but have never seen the conditions industrially raised animals live under.

Hehehe. 'Gimme one that saw it comin'.....
Lol.
If you tip a cow on it's side, can it get up? Yes.

How I know this is another story. >.>

Maybe they should read The Jungle lol.

it seemed to me some of these kids had a Bambi-esque view of the wild


Yup. That seriously annoys me too.


I don't think you've ever been out in the wild.

Everything always has to be ridiculously simple for you, doesn't it? If you bothered to read what I wrote, I am not saying that it's fun and nice out in the wild. I am saying that the horrific conditions most animals are raised in (before they are slaughtered) are even worse. I don't think you've ever taken a look into that.

Is that clear enough now?


Don't tell him/her that animals don't live in Beatrix Potter societies.


Congratulations, Shx. You've just made a fool of yourself. :rolleyes:

Maybe someone should point out to this 'disgusted' woman that the animal would have been killed even if the programme hadn't been made.


She said it on the programme and the presenter (rightly) called her on it.

Having watched most of the programme (with my dad, the ex-health inspector making comments from the sidelines) I can honestly say it's changed very little about the way I feel. I've never been one for the kind of cold clinical way these things are done but it's efficient and pretty humane, especially when you think of how it USED to be done.

Animal welfare is all well and good but we keep these animals around for a REASON, and that ISN'T to wait for them to die of old age and bury them in the flowerbed next to Tammy the Guinea Pig.

Them pigs is good eatin'.

when I was about 9 I saw my pet cow slaughtered......I went vegan.

I eat meat now, and I just try not to think about it, which is hard since I grew up around it and knew from a very early age where the bacon came from, and what happened to that chicken I saw yesterday....(that was now on my plate) and I didn't have a problem with it then, only when it was my cow that got killed.

I don't really see what the fuss is with the video though........

With any luck this will help fight obesity. The people who get queasy will only eat plants. Plants taste bad, so they'll eat as little as is necessary to prevent hunger. w00t!

and I didn't have a problem with it then, only when it was my cow that got killed.


Which is interesting, because it's one of the things this programme is apparently trying to do. Get people to eat animals they've come to be "acquainted" with "personally".

Plants taste bad

What plants have you been eating? :eek:

They don't grow in their little styrofoam containers.

Don't laugh, there are people working on that right now. The plan is to take cloned samples of tissue and grow them in nutrient broth to basically grow a steak in a vat.

For a fascinating exploration of the nature of our food system, read Michael Pollan's brilliant The Omnivore's Dilemma. It examines, among other things, the industrial beef abattoirs and a complete alternative approach called "grass farming" that I think provides a much better alternative.

Hmm...

Nah, I think I like meat. And I am intruiged by th idea of tasting fear.

I don't think you've ever been out in the wild.

Good thing too, them cows would rip him limb from limb in their undomesticated state....

whoever wrote that daily mail article just came off as a bit of a hypocrite and a wuss really. they go from complaining that it's only animal's why should we bother about how they become food, to feeling sickened when they actually find out how it's done. if anyting, whoever it was demonstrated why this sort documentary is so important or even necessary. some people are way too soft about animals, especially when they then discriminate between pet animals and food animals like there is any appreciable difference when it comes to killing them.

Beef farmer Ken Howie told presenter Richard Johnson: "I do question whether the general public needs to see that."

True dat.

Kind of funny though...I wonder how many vegetarians this creates.

True dat.

Kind of funny though...I wonder how many vegetarians this creates.

i think that if people can't deal with the fact that in order to provide meat cheap enough for mass consumption animals necessarily have to be reared and slaughtered in less than cheerful conditions then they should be vegetarians. maybe then there will be few enough of us carnivores that all livestock can be reared free-range and slaughtered with a magic wand or however people imagine you might slaughter an animal humanely.

As a firm believer in animal rights, I must say this: I'm hoping that this video will give children an appreciation for the animals that die for their meat.

As a firm believer in scarring people for life, I must say this: Ahhhhhhhhahahahaha!

As sick seeming as it was, this is not really newsworthy. Nature isn't exactly nice to these creatures either...remember that if hunted most would be eaten while still alive by wolves or mountain lions or whathever other large predators hunt. We're at least merciful enough to kill them before eating them.

Furthermore, I find the idea that people are disgusted by this disgusting in and of itself. Where did they think our meat came from? We used to have to do this by hand by ourselves for many centuries before modern society brought us the ability to let butchers and farmers do it all for us, so why are we gasping in fright and disgust? What's sickening is that people find this sickening. Grow up.

My thoughts exactly.

Planning on sticking a leg of roast lamb in front of the family this Easter? Then isn't it your responsibility to know where the animal came from, how it was reared and how it was killed?
Ted Nugent actually holds this position. He asserts its morally dishonest to be willing to eat animals if you're not willing to kill them.

Ted Nugent is willing to do both (and does, sometimes on TV).

when I was about 9 I saw my pet cow slaughtered......I went vegan.

I eat meat now, and I just try not to think about it, which is hard since I grew up around it and knew from a very early age where the bacon came from, and what happened to that chicken I saw yesterday....(that was now on my plate) and I didn't have a problem with it then, only when it was my cow that got killed.

I don't really see what the fuss is with the video though........

we used to have pet lambs on our farm where i spent the first couple of years of my life. they were all house pets and i was apparently best friends with one called Archie. they were all killed and eaten once they got big enough to trample me though. well i'm not sure i ate them at that age, no idea when i started eating meat.

True dat.


How can you justify saying: "The public should not see this"?

i think that if people can't deal with the fact that in order to provide meat cheap enough for mass consumption animals necessarily have to be reared and slaughtered in less than cheerful conditions then they should be vegetarians. maybe then there will be few enough of us carnivores that all livestock can be reared free-range and slaughtered with a magic wand or however people imagine you might slaughter an animal humanely.

Interesting perspective. That would be nice, of course, in a quasi-utopia sort of way. Nicer than the present situation, at least.

I wonder...Why would we traumatize people into vegetarianism? If it's all that good, shouldn't we only reason people to that point of view?

Personally, I can't wait until we start cloning meat in vats. Genetically engineered to have perfect taste and consistency...it would be an eating experience unrivaled in human history, and cheap and unlimited to boot. And it would avoid having to kill animals for food, which is obviously quite good for all involved. As much as I love meat, the current methods of producing it are barbaric.

There is no reason to show little kids the slaughter of animals. Unless they are farmers kids and going to be doing the slaughtering themselves in the near future...

Parents have enough trouble making their kids clean their plate at dinner time as it is.

i think that if people can't deal with the fact that in order to provide meat cheap enough for mass consumption animals necessarily have to be reared and slaughtered in less than cheerful conditions then they should be vegetarians. maybe then there will be few enough of us carnivores that all livestock can be reared free-range and slaughtered with a magic wand or however people imagine you might slaughter an animal humanely.That's my secret hope as well.

Less meat eating would allow for better production methods, less pollution, and increase the quality of the products (I assume, as chefs generally agree quality of life directly translates to quality of product). I don't see how anyone loses.

I, by the way, have no problem with animal consumption in principle.

Vegetarians should not produce documentaries.
People should learn where their food comes from. A lot of the time people like to pretend that it magically appears for them to be eaten.

I wonder...Why would we traumatize people into vegetarianism? If it's all that good, shouldn't we only reason people to that point of view?

Because reason can very easily be overcome by instinct, habit...

Personally, I can't wait until we start cloning meat in vats. Genetically engineered to have perfect taste and consistency...it would be an eating experience unrivaled in human history, and cheap and unlimited to boot. And it would avoid having to kill animals for food, which is obviously quite good for all involved. As much as I love meat, the current methods of producing it are barbaric.

Indeed. And yes, that would be brilliant. I can't imagine anyone really being opposed to it either.

Because reason can very easily be overcome by instinct, habit...

...And? Because of this, it's better we use raw fear and disgust? I can't think of anything I had to be truamatized into doing.

Indeed. And yes, that would be brilliant. I can't imagine anyone really being opposed to it either.

Well, I mean, think of it: The environmental damage would be negligible (no need for farms, no antibiotics, no artificial feeds, no runoff, etc.), it could be produced anywhere, it could be scaled to any needs, and it would be cheap enough for anyone to buy.

And since it would be just meat, there would be no animal to harm in the process, except perhaps a quick DNA sample or something like that in the beginning.

That's my secret hope as well.

Less meat eating would allow for better production methods, less pollution, and increase the quality of the products (I assume, as chefs generally agree quality of life directly translates to quality of product). I don't see how anyone loses.

I, by the way, have no problem with animal consumption in principle.

i suspect many people who can't deal with the thought of an animal being killed in the way mass slaughtering houses do it would also have a problem with an animal being shot in the back of the head with a bolt gun by a friendly neighbourhood farmer anyway (there's still blood and guts too be removed) so the system would be quite sustainable as long as there is the occaisional 'horror story' about where our food comes from before we eat it. maybe the friendly local farmer could invite each year of kids from the local school to his farm to see how the animals in his field get to their plates and create a new lot of vegetarians every year so that meat eating can be kept at reasonably sustainable levels.

...And? Because of this, it's better we use raw fear and disgust? I can't think of anything I had to be truamatized into doing.

Facts. Reality. It's simply presenting reality. I can't see how you can argue that people should be prevented from seeing reality. The fact that they then react with disgust is instructive. It does not, however, mean they should be encouraged to shield themselves from reality. Living in fantasy is unhealthy.

Well, I mean, think of it: The environmental damage would be negligible (no need for farms, no antibiotics, no artificial feeds, no runoff, etc.), it could be produced anywhere, it could be scaled to any needs, and it would be cheap enough for anyone to buy.

And since it would be just meat, there would be no animal to harm in the process, except perhaps a quick DNA sample or something like that in the beginning.

Yes, indeed. I have been thinking about it. It would be brilliant: lots of positive aspects, no downsides. If this world is at all sane, it will happen one day.

Facts. Reality. It's simply presenting reality. I can't see how you can argue that people should be prevented from seeing reality. The fact that they then react with disgust is instructive. It does not, however, mean they should be encouraged to shield themselves from reality. Living in fantasy is unhealthy.

Aye, aye, whatev. Did anyone ask where food comes from? Pff, we shield people from things far less troubling than this. Can you see a boob on TV? Nooooooo, but these guys get to show wanton slaughter. I want boobies on TV, damnit!

Yes, indeed. I have been thinking about it. It would be brilliant: lots of positive aspects, no downsides. If this world is at all sane, it will happen one day.

IIRC, it's in the laboratory phase, so give it 15 years or so and it'll be commercially ready. I mean, the demand will be there since it has some huge advantages over regular animals; it would need some improvements to be totally equal to regular animal meat, but it's entirely possible.

Well, I mean, think of it: The environmental damage would be negligible (no need for farms, no antibiotics, no artificial feeds, no runoff, etc.), it could be produced anywhere, it could be scaled to any needs, and it would be cheap enough for anyone to buy.

And since it would be just meat, there would be no animal to harm in the process, except perhaps a quick DNA sample or something like that in the beginning.

would you really be able to replicate the texture of a filet steak or a dover sole with that sort of technology though? i can't help thinking of the yeast farms of trantor, asimov never really persuaded me on that concept.

Aye, aye, whatev. Did anyone ask where food comes from? Pff, we shield people from things far less troubling than this. Can you see a boob on TV? Nooooooo, but these guys get to show wanton slaughter. I want boobies on TV, damnit!

That's... completely irrelevant, though. I don't think people should be "shielded" from sexuality either, though. Are you seriously saying that, because female breasts are rarely shown on TV, people should not get to see how meat is "produced"?

That's... completely irrelevant, though. I don't think people should be "shielded" from sexuality either, though. Are you seriously saying that, because female breasts are rarely shown on TV, people should not get to see how meat is "produced"?

Hmm? No, thst was a tangent. I'm saying, I can't imagine that traumatizing is ever necesary to bring someone to a reasonable stance. In fact, I think that may put people at their most unreasonable.

It's not just about this program, but in general, one hears veggies say how they were 'shocked' into no longer eating meat.

i suspect many people who can't deal with the thought of an animal being killed in the way mass slaughtering houses do it would also have a problem with an animal being shot in the back of the head with a bolt gun by a friendly neighbourhood farmer anyway (there's still blood and guts too be removed) so the system would be quite sustainable as long as there is the occaisional 'horror story' about where our food comes from before we eat it. maybe the friendly local farmer could invite each year of kids from the local school to his farm to see how the animals in his field get to their plates and create a new lot of vegetarians every year so that meat eating can be kept at reasonably sustainable levels.Enough with the talking, let's organise some field trips already :pIIRC, it's in the laboratory phase, so give it 15 years or so and it'll be commercially ready. I mean, the demand will be there since it has some huge advantages over regular animals; it would need some improvements to be totally equal to regular animal meat, but it's entirely possible.If I didn't have an irrational aversion to animal products, I'd eat it.

Dunno what the hell's wrong with me, but animal products just freaks me out. The phrase "It's Alive!" and scenes from old horror flicks immediately springs to mind. I guess it's like other people & spiders.

The phrase "It's Alive!" and scenes from old horror flicks immediately springs to mind.

Doesn't seem appropriate. By the time it's a product, it's dead. Used to be alive, sure, but that's at the end of horror movies, if at all.

You're looking for something along the lines of "Soylent Green is people!"

Personally, I can't wait until we start cloning meat in vats. Genetically engineered to have perfect taste and consistency...it would be an eating experience unrivaled in human history, and cheap and unlimited to boot. And it would avoid having to kill animals for food, which is obviously quite good for all involved. As much as I love meat, the current methods of producing it are barbaric.

Indeed. Animal welfare aside, one of the biggest problems I have with traditional livestock farming is that it's incredibly wasteful in terms of resources. Vat-grown meat would fix that.

People are a lot messier btw. Less solid meat and more bones. I saw a nasty accident involving an SUV flying over the median at 90 and hitting a car head on doing 65. I only went to go see it because I thought a bomb went off.

Showing a pig being slaughtered isn't something to show little kids for Christ's sake.

Well, I mean, think of it: The environmental damage would be negligible (no need for farms, no antibiotics, no artificial feeds, no runoff, etc.), it could be produced anywhere, it could be scaled to any needs, and it would be cheap enough for anyone to buy.

Moreover, the health risk presented by mass-farming techniques will be done away with as well, making things like H5N1 or SARS much more difficult to spread.

actually i've never heard a vegetarian say that. mostly it's because they think it's healthier or because they don't like the taste or because they love animals to much to eat them, and mostly a combination.
personally i've helped to gut turkeys and pigs at my grandmothers farm (they weren't raised at an industrial scale though). that didn't scare me to become a vegetarian (actually if she'd ask i would help her again). i had other reasons.

Well then, you aren't the issue, eh?

It's not just about this program, but in general, one hears veggies say how they were 'shocked' into no longer eating meat.

actually i've never heard a vegetarian say that. mostly it's because they think it's healthier or because they don't like the taste or because they love animals to much to eat them, and mostly a combination.
personally i've helped to gut turkeys and pigs at my grandmothers farm (they weren't raised at an industrial scale though). that didn't scare me to become a vegetarian (actually if she'd ask i would help her again). i had other reasons.

Moreover, the health risk presented by mass-farming techniques will be done away with as well, making things like H5N1 or SARS much more difficult to spread.

Yup. All in all, it's entirely superior to conventional animal farming. Once the technology is worked out, it will likely displace the modern animal industry just like those large commercial producers did to many of the small farmers in the 1940's and 1950's.

People who can't watch and/or slaughter an animal themselves and but will happily tuck in some pork, lamb or whatever annoy me. Even more so than Jehovah's witnesses or zealous vegans who are on a mission to convert you.

I mean why not start eating human meat as well. I'm sure most people wouldn't be able to watch a human being slaughtered, but I've heard human flesh tastes like sweet pork. It's also one of the healthiest foods around for humans as it contains the precise mix of nutrients that humans need to survive. Odd that.

Myself, I'm mostly vegetarian. I don't tend to buy meat because it's either cheap and nasty or expensive and nice. I do buy seafood though. Very tasty and very satisfying if you've caught it yourself.

wow.
I am so totally shocked.
The BBC put out a program and the Daily Mail comes out squealing in rage and horror against it.
totally, totally shocked.
My founded has never been so dumbed.

I mean why not start eating human meat as well. I'm sure most people wouldn't be able to watch a human being slaughtered, but I've heard human flesh tastes like sweet pork. It's also one of the healthiest foods around for humans as it contains the precise mix of nutrients that humans need to survive. Odd that.

no it's not healthy. it doesn't contain all nutrients you need, except if you eat it rare and you eat the whole body. it also contains a lot of human diseases.

I burnt my hand once upon a time, and it smelt just like bacon. In fact, it was quite appetising. That was one of the weirder experiences I have ever had... being tempted to eat my own flesh...

I wouldn't normally quote the Mirror or the Mail (somebody sent me the link), but this is interesting.



(Source (http://www.sundaymirror.co.uk/news/tm_headline=slaughter---live-on-tv--&method=full&objectid=18703505&siteid=62484-name_page.html))



(Source (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=439763&in_page_id=1770))

The webpage of the programme itself:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/bbcthree/programmes/kill_it/



I usually stay off this topic, because some people tend to get very defensive about it, but this is unusual enough for me to bring it up.

Thoughts / comments?

Oooh, bring me a knife and fork, quickly!

What, you think I didn't already know exactly where it comes from? Probably helps that I come from a farming background, but still, anybody who's not an idiot knows that those burgers don't just grow on trees.

Why does nobody stand up for the plants, though? Those poor bastards are very often still alive when they're eaten! It's terrible! Cows could defend themselves if they really wanted to, but plants truly are helpless and innocent!

I mean why not start eating human meat as well. I'm sure most people wouldn't be able to watch a human being slaughtered, but I've heard human flesh tastes like sweet pork.
It doesn't. Whoever you heard that from is either stupid or lying. It tastes like pork gone bad.

It's also one of the healthiest foods around for humans as it contains the precise mix of nutrients that humans need to survive. Odd that.

No it doesn't. Anyone with a basic knowledge of biology could tell you that.

It doesn't. Whoever you heard that from is either stupid or lying. It tastes like pork gone bad.

...

...

What?

What?

Why do you know?

Why do you know?

People have interviewed cannibals in the past.

People have interviewed cannibals in the past.

...


WHY?

...


WHY?

because it's interesting i guess.

...


WHY?

Why not?

Why not?

What if they eat you? What would you do if you were interveiwed by a juicy steak? Did they use the most unappetizing reporter they had?

Srsly though, who wants to know what we taste like?

What if they eat you? What would you do if you were interveiwed by a juicy steak? Did they use the most unappetizing reporter they had?


Most cannibalism is ritualistic. Only the already dead are eaten.

Them dead people is good eatin'.

Most cannibalism is ritualistic. Only the already dead are eaten.

So they're gonna kill you first! ZOMG!

Seriously though, my taste does not interest me.

Most cannibalism is ritualistic. Only the already dead are eaten.

Better than the other way round I suppose... (http://www.brickshelf.com/gallery/cbolego/LANDoftheDEAD/ld40.jpg)

No it doesn't. Anyone with a basic knowledge of biology could tell you that.no it's not healthy. it doesn't contain all nutrients you need, except if you eat it rare and you eat the whole body. it also contains a lot of human diseases.Oh really? It seems common sense has lost the day then. I mean... you would have thought that if a human is healthy then they would have right balance of nutrients that they need and that other humans need... hence eating a healthy human would be healthy. Oh well.

Anyway, all the best animals taste like pork. The fact that humans supposedly taste worse than pork just means pigs are better than humans.

A while back there was a vegetarian thread in which I told the story of my old friend and her then-boyfriend, a pizza delivery, an angry tirade, and a soiled credit card. But there was another occasion we'd got together to eat:

One Saturday morning I met with the two of them for breakfast at a restaurant nearby the place I was working at overnights on weekends at the time. It was nearby a section of the city that had numerous slaughterhouses.

I found myself ordering extra bacon for breakfast - not to antagonize her bf (who'd had a major minor shitfit over meat the last we'd met) - but because I'd had this craving for it, ever since arriving to take my shift late the evening before. I discussed it with them while we waited for our plates to arrive.

"It's the slaughterhouses", opined the bf gravely,"what you're smelling is the pigs before they're slaughtered. They're afraid, you see - that's their adrenaline you're smelling. They know what's about to happen."

I thought about it for a moment, and just as the waitress arrived with our breakfasts, said: "Well, that's not much of a survival trait, is it? I mean - smelling just like delicious crispy bacon when they get scared? It's no wonder I have a craving for it", and happily munched a strip. "It's amazing they didn't go extinct smelling this tasty".
.

The fact that humans supposedly taste worse than pork just means pigs are better than humans.

Or that humans prefer the taste of planteating mammals ;)

I wouldn't normally quote the Mirror or the Mail (somebody sent me the link), but this is interesting.



(Source (http://www.sundaymirror.co.uk/news/tm_headline=slaughter---live-on-tv--&method=full&objectid=18703505&siteid=62484-name_page.html))



(Source (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=439763&in_page_id=1770))

The webpage of the programme itself:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/bbcthree/programmes/kill_it/



I usually stay off this topic, because some people tend to get very defensive about it, but this is unusual enough for me to bring it up.

Thoughts / comments?

No worries there, it's called life and education.
I usually stay off the topic also because people tend to get a bit defensive when I ask them why they are cutting down living plants to eat. :eek:
Still, we can do other stuff in France eh??

Or that humans prefer the taste of planteating mammals ;)*hides* You wouldn't want to eat little old me would you? I like ate some fish last week. I'd probably taste horrible. :( Plus there's no meat on me. I weigh 150lbs and I'm 6'3". I'm all bones I am.

What if they eat you? What would you do if you were interveiwed by a juicy steak? Did they use the most unappetizing reporter they had?

Srsly though, who wants to know what we taste like?

Yo, I wouldn't mind. With the recent development of cultured meat, I would have no qualms at all with eating human flesh, without all the moral ideas of killing someone for it. I hear it tastes like ham. :D

Seriously though, human meat wouldn't bother me beyond the notion that someone was killed/seriously maimed/tortured to get it. Cultured meat... mmmm... that's good eatin.

Oh really? It seems common sense has lost the day then. I mean... you would have thought that if a human is healthy then they would have right balance of nutrients that they need and that other humans need... This is why induction's such a dangerous thing. In a nutshell, you're ignoring how humans obtain the shit they need to function. Our bodies are little chemical plants, designed to be fed a variety of shit, break it down into usable compounds, which are then transported to various bits of you to sustain those bits.

So no, eating the end product isn't necessarily useful, because in the end product, all the processes sustaining your body, has already taken place.

Or that humans prefer the taste of planteating mammals ;)

Well, most carnivores do. Herbivores tend to have more fat, which is where a great deal of the taste comes from. Carnivores have stringy, lean, tough muscle tissue, which is probably not good to the pallet. Anyone who has been in high school biology would know this(Not the taste, the other stuff), as usually you dissect cats, and so forth. You'll notice a huge difference between those muscles, and those of herbivores.

Also, the more active the herbivore, the less "tasty" the meat generally is. For instance, venison is an aquired taste, that to some is completely pungent.

This is why induction's such a dangerous thing. In a nutshell, you're ignoring how humans obtain the shit they need to function. Our bodies are little chemical plants, designed to be fed a variety of shit, break it down into usable compounds, which are then transported to various bits of you to sustain those bits.

So no, eating the end product isn't necessarily useful, because in the end product, all the processes sustaining your body, has already taken place.

I'm assuming you are talking about human excrement, or excrement in general. And you would be wrong, if that is true. Fecal matter actually retains a great deal of nutritional value, as our bodies are terribly inefficient at breaking food down. That's why you see dogs eating it all the time, really. The reason why it is ill advised to consume it is largely due to health reasons, what with bacteria and such.

I'm assuming you are talking about human excrement, or excrement in general.But amusing as that was, you shouldn't have :p

But amusing as that was, you shouldn't have :p

I am the local excrement specialist, I guess.

Or Grand-Master-Shit if you wish.

Them feces is good eatin'.

BBQ'd feces... shrimp fried feces... feces burgers... deep fried feces...

:D

Them feces is good eatin'.