NationStates Jolt Archive

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/6424345.stm
Clashes between tribesmen and foreign militants near Pakistan's border with Afghanistan have left at least 15 people dead, security officials say.

Something that doesn't get much media coverage. As many will have figured out by now, in this region everything is about the tribe. These closely-knit communities command the allegiance of people there before any ideology or national government.

Given that there are lots of local tribes there who aren't great fans of the Taliban and their foreign jihad-tourists, I reckon there should be more effort on our part to involve them in closing the borders between Pakistan and Afghanistan. Which, I suppose, requires serious security assurances...which means a stronger military commitment.

Always comes down to the same thing, doesn't it. :(

But it doesn't mean they are too found of 'us' too now does it?

But it doesn't mean they are too found of 'us' too now does it?
True. But if we send someone there and do old-fashioned diplomacy along the lines of "you help us and we'll help you", wouldn't that at least be worth a try?

True. But if we send someone there and do old-fashioned diplomacy along the lines of "you help us and we'll help you", wouldn't that at least be worth a try?
Yes that is true.
During the Christmas holidays i was watching the BBC and there was a 30 minutespecial on Commando 3, and how they have problems fighting the Taliban and foriegn insurgents, but also with the local people not happy with any of them being there.

There were quite a few fire-fights then they got holed up in a Pollice barracks were deserted by their Afghani allies and then later on their Major was choppered in to talk to the local tribal elders, that guy did not instil much confidence in me.

But yes i agree more troops are needed.

For every tribal hierarchy that opposes the Taliban there is another that supports them. The Pakistani tribes have very few things in common, and a united front against the Taliban is not one of those few.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/6424345.stm


Something that doesn't get much media coverage. As many will have figured out by now, in this region everything is about the tribe. These closely-knit communities command the allegiance of people there before any ideology or national government.

Given that there are lots of local tribes there who aren't great fans of the Taliban and their foreign jihad-tourists, I reckon there should be more effort on our part to involve them in closing the borders between Pakistan and Afghanistan.

http://www.hindu.com/thehindu/holnus/001200703062031.htm

says

At least 15 people, including Uzbeks and local tribesmen, were killed in clashes after the foreigners allegedly attacked a pro-government tribal chief in Pakistan's border region of Waziristan today.

However, conflicting reports about the clash poured into the national capital, with the Geo TV reporting that members of a local peace committee fought with the Uzbeks when the latter fired upon tribesman Saeedullah Khan.

Khan came under attack in Azam Warsak area and later armed tribesmen came to his support, the TV reports said, adding that those killed included 12 Uzbeks, one Afghan refugee and two local tribals.

Khan is considered to be a pro-government tribesman and had come under attack in the past.

A separate report said that a group of tribesmen attacked a pickup of Uzbek nationals. The tribesmen were reportedly trying to disarm the Uzbeks when they opened fire.

There was no official word on the incident.

The tribals have chiefs called 'maliks'. The Pak govt have them in their payroll (money, arms, status, perks etc) and that is how they used to "control" the tribes.

Of late, many pro-govt maliks and clerics are being killed so that the tribals under them will have to turn to pro-talliban militia leaders for leadership.

This could be one such case, but I wonder wtf the Uzbeks were doing there in the first place.

http://www.hindu.com/thehindu/holnus/001200703062031.htm

says



The tribals have chiefs called 'maliks'. The Pak govt have them in their payroll (money, arms, status, perks etc) and that is how they used to "control" the tribes.

Of late, many pro-govt maliks and clerics are being killed so that the tribals under them will have to turn to pro-talliban militia leaders for leadership.

This could be one such case, but I wonder wtf the Uzbeks were doing there in the first place.

I assume it refers to ethnic Uzbeks, and not Uzbekistani citizens...

I assume it refers to ethnic Uzbeks, and not Uzbekistani citizens...

That is unlikely, because in some other reports I saw the term "foreigners" used.

But it doesn't mean they are too found of 'us' too now does it?

If Westerners show up, it means trouble.

Now, they get the idea that if Arabs or cross-border Afghans show up (i.e., taliban or al-Q), it's motherfucking trouble.

These people don't want trouble. And if you're trouble, they're going to try to kill you.

http://news.uk.msn.com/Article.aspx?cp-documentid=3857293
A gunbattle between tribesmen and Central Asian militants

and the rest is a great spin. Ball pitched on the middle stump and moving away...:p

near the Afghan frontier shows that Pakistan's shift away from direct military action against al-Qaida and Taliban fighters is paying off, a government minister said Wednesday. Officials said as many as 18 people died in the firefight on Tuesday in the South Waziristan tribal agency, part of the wild border zone where Taliban and al-Qaida militants are believed to shelter. President Gen. Pervez Musharraf is under pressure to prevent Taliban fighters based in the border region from mounting attacks into Afghanistan and to respond to U.S. fears that al-Qaida is re-establishing itself in the same area. An intelligence official said Wednesday that the final death toll from the clash was 18, three more than reported the previous day. The dead were 15 mostly Uzbek militants, two tribesman and a shopkeeper caught in the crossfire. Information Minister Mohammed Ali Durrani said the incident was a "vital development" because it suggested that elders in the semiautonomous border zone were growing more hostile to foreign fighters who have found refuge in their midst.