NationStates Jolt Archive

...here: http://www.tvtalkshows.com/board/old/topic/15797-1.html

see for yourself. read with an open mind, not an "I'm right no matter what anyone else says" childish mind. and think about this as you read: would you ever consider spanking your daughter's breasts as a punishment - especially if she was still a child?

Like the parents are thinking "OOH! I'm going to hit you in sexual areas"

If they were thinking that male children would be kicked in the balls rather than spanked.

Besides they were thinking "It causes pain, children ovoid pain so they eventually learn to stop doing whatever bad thing they're doing" Kinda like how putting spices on things for tething puppies trains them not to bite certain stuff or how a drill sergeant beating you up for tiny infractions trains you to be top notch.

My parents 'prefered' to smack me in the face rather than the buttocks. Its more unexpected as there is no convoluted "come and lie across my lap" routine, and apparently, it saved me from being psychosexually misalligned.

Smacking is meant to be a shock. The more shocking it is, the less often it will be needed. The physical pain of gluttomial attack can easily be supressed, but to have a parent approach you calmly, and totally violate your trust by smacking you. That sends a definite signal.

I feel that the biggest mistake anti-spanking people make is acting like children go through the same thought processes as experienced adults. They're young. They're foolish. This might sound stereotypical but they're brains aren't fully formed. It's a painful shock, much like putting hot sauce/ spice (when I was young and would accidentally blurt out a cuss word I heard someone say, my dad would use that mustard powder stuff and wouldn't let me get a drink or attempt to get the stuff off). There's a difference between getting a disciplinary measure from an authority figure and being attacked by a random stranger. It's cruel to just lock people up in cages for no reason, but we still have jails. Tom and Jerry and Popeye might have been extremely violent (even by our more lenient modern standards), but that didn't mean young kids in the 1940s would voilently attack eachother with frying pans and uppercuts.

The old "monkey-see, monkey-do" reasoning is so...so.....lawsuit happy.

I agree with Hoy. Im currently being raised by what I have deemed the "Reverse Phycology Method". I never do anything wrong becuase most of the time with us teens its rebellion. My parents are use reverse logic like "You can drink all you want. But you have to pay for the booze". Its no fun when your parents sya you can.

When I was younger I got spanked. I have now went 8 years without a spank, or grounding, or punishment of any kind. I just dont do anything wrong.

That sends a definite signal.
Specifically, that your parents want to hurt you, so you should kill them in their sleep.

Spanking is sexual? I may not be a psychologist for children, but I doubt children are the sexual beasts the article makes them out to be. Plus, growing brains don't quite understand the same things the same way as fully-developed brains. Spanking doesn't teach assault or sexual attacks just like sharing doesn't exactly promote Communism, the modern, Stalinistic style to be exact.

I'm beginning to hate the hippy, liberal parenting crap that's been going on. Is it a coincidence that not only are today's kids less likely are going to be spanked or punished severely in other ways, they are also more likely to shoot their victims rather than merely attacking in a physical and severe way. My dad grew up as the white kid in a post-Segregation, race-riot era black neighborhood. He and my uncle (his brother) were beaten up so much, they walked three miles to school rather than take the bus. Under the same circumstances today, he would be lucky if he WAS gunned down. I blame lax parenting, surprisingly easy access to guns, and a media that portrays the lifestyles of rapping "gangstas" with more money and girlfriends that Hugh Heffner, the Playboy guy. You hear about their money and sex lives. You don't hear about their fear or life-and-death struggles enough.

If Lord of the Flies has taught me anything other than the true meaning of boredom, it's that kids are naturally going to become incredibly violent and homocidal in the adsense of strong leadership and a good asswhooping. Maybe it's because I was spanked before, sometimes with the vacuum cord, that I have such a high opinion of it. Damn hippy media. KIDS ARE NOT SHORT ADULTS! THEY ARE UNDEVELOPED ADULTS!

Like women's breasts, the buttocks are a sexual or erogenous part of the human anatomy, even though they are not actually sex organs. This is why baring one's buttocks in public is considered indecent as well as unlawful and why their exposure in movies or on television constitutes nudity. It is also why someone who uninvitedly fondles another person's buttocks is treated by law as a sexual offender. The sexual nature of the buttocks is explained not only by their proximity to the genitals, but also by their high concentration of nerve endings which lead directly to sexual nerve centers. Hence, the buttocks are a major locus of sexual signals. and here I thought Mooning someone with the shitter was offensive because it was the shitter (a very dirty-in-a-non-sexual-way part of the body.) that you were basically calling that person an Asshole.

the thighs are just as close to the genital as the buttocks... so minis-skirts and shorts should also be banned for the same reason? what of the stomach around the belly button? I'm not offended by bare midriffs and bare thighs. and would laugh if someone mooned me.

High concentration of nerve centers? sorry, but untill they ban those hard wood, stone, metal, and plastic seats everywhere, it's not proof that Spanking causes a sexual response in the spankee. (and some of those wooden chairs/benches hurt more than the spankings.) the Penis and Vagaina also contain alot of nerve clusters. so does that mean when your parents also wiped your bottom, or held your penis while potty training you were sexually assaulting you? Quick! Turn around and sue them for sexual abuse! after all, they are RUBBING your buttocks with a soft tissue, holding your penis. why isn't that stopped since it's a more arousing form of touching than one or two sharp swats?

If this is a good reason to prohibit spanking (I would rather the abuse exscuse) then prohibit wood, stone and hard plastic as materials for chairs. My buttocks hurt more and longer sitting on those damn wooden chairs than from a spanking while I was a kid.

funny how many hard benches still exists.

The sexuality of the buttocks is significant not just to adults, but to children as well. Even though they are sexually immature and without an active sex drive, children are from birth neurologically complete sexual beings who are capable of experiencing erotic sensation. The existence of pedophiles, furthermore, means that children can also become the targets of sexual intentions. As much as we might like to imagine childhood as an innocent, carefree world beyond the influence of sexuality, we do children a disservice if we fail to recognize that they too have erogenous zones which deserve consideration and respect.
I think children would still be target for sexual predators even if spanking was outlawed and punishable by captial punishment. so what has that got to do with spanking? unless it's trying to point out that... spanking causes child Predators to be born!

Spanking as sexual violation potty training as a Sexual Violation. read the arguments, they fit well with Potty training. so I guess the next argument is to make people wear diapers untill they figure out the whole toliet thing by themselves. would that be considered masterbating; the self-manipulation of a "sexual zone"?

Since children are sexual beings and since the buttocks are a sexual region of the body, we should question the propriety of slapping children's buttocks. We generally understand that fondling or caressing a child's buttocks is a sexual offense (even if the child does not understand it to be so). We also know that slapping an adult's buttocks is a sexual offense (even if the offender does not get sexual pleasure from doing so). so how many accusations flew at the last NFL game where they were slapping each other's buttocks? and do they (the people actually studying this) realize that body fat is concentrated mostly around the Buttocks? why? for CUSHIONING! it's one of the best padded areas of the human body. (note: Padded =|= protected.)

The question, then, is why wiping a child's buttocks with tissue is not considered a sexual offense. Is it because Potty Training, unlike fondling, is physically necessary for the training and used to teach proper behavior? No. Is it because children are less likely to be sexual targets than adults, less likely to feel violated, and therefore protected less strictly? No, or fondling an adult would be a far more serious crime than fondling a child. A more plausible explanation for this breach of logic is simply that the majority of people are unable or unwilling to believe there could be anything indecent about a practice as old, common and accepted as the potty training of children -- something which nearly everyone has received, given or witnessed at least once. And since Potty Training typically come from esteemed or even beloved authority figures, many people are loath to question this behavior. see it fits!

In any case, freedom from sexual violation is one of the basic tenets of liberty most revered by Americans and by most of the free world. As this principle of inviolacy applies to adults, it should apply equally, if not especially, to children, who are below the age of consent. Spanking children may be a time-honored tradition, but any tradition that so gratuitously disregards their inviolacy deserves to be discontinued. so anything involving the touching of these "sexual zones" should then be made illegal. Brushing dirt off of the seat of a child's pants, wiping a stain off of the front of a little girl's dress/shirt, and heaven forbid - wiping up liquids that spill onto a child's lap! those happen more often than spanking and worse, it's done by people who profess "I NEVER SPANK MY CHILDREN!" imagine, they are sexually violating those kids!

Some argue that spanking is justified or even commanded by the Bible, specifically the Book of Proverbs. There is a distinction, however, which should be of key interest to fundamentalists, between the practice in King Solomon's day of beating people on the back and the modern American habit of buttocks-hitting: the latter is not prescribed anywhere in the Bible. Moreover, it should be kept in mind that the Old Testament contains passages which could be (and in some cases have been) construed as divine endorsements of wife-beating, racial warfare, slavery, the stoning to death of rebellious children and other behaviors that are outrageous by today's standards. As Shakespeare once wrote, "The devil can cite Scripture for his purpose." and people wonder why mis information still persists... apparently these people study the sexual natures of children but not the translations behind their reference materials.

Potty Training as sexual abuse still fits!

As in ages past, there are people today who are sexually excited by spanking.as CHILDREN? cite references please!This trait, which is often expressed in pornography and associated with sadomasochism, is known in the scientific literature as flagellantism. While many flagellants seek to engage in consensual spanking between adults, some find the spanking of minors to be either more arousing or more opportune. and those are the people that should be watched for. not the ones who are honestly disciplining their children. why punish those honest people with those who would abuse the practice?

Since children in this country up to eighteen years old can still be legally and forcibly spanked by parents, guardians, teachers, school principals and other child care professionals,WRONG! Teachers hitting their students (even if it's one honest spank) can be arrested by the police for abuse. How many Professional babysitters were charged with abuse when caught on the Baby cam? I now wonder how many other 'facts' are wrong.
it is often easy for flagellants to obtain positions where they can sexually abuse children with little or no fear of repercussions. As long as society sees spanking as a legitimate act of discipline, and as long as the spanked youths are presumed to have "deserved" it, sexually abusive spankers have an effective moralistic disguise for their true motives. History, court records and current events contain numerous cases of flagellant sexual abuse against defenseless victims, and there is no telling how many instances have gone unreported. This is also an argument for making all sexual predator listings and information public? now what of other crimes... this can be an argument to make those records public also. and add to that anyone with a mental disability that could become violent...

so much for privacy and hello police gathering information on everyone!

Some adults might rationalize: "Well, I know my intentions are purely nonsexual, so there's nothing wrong with my spanking a child." The main problem with this rationale is that it fails to consider all the children who are at the mercy of other adults, among whom there will always be some with motives that are not so pure - and not necessarily obvious. Even spankings that have no sexual motive contribute to the cover that sexually abusive spankers depend on, affirming the old alibi: "Hey, lots of people spank their kids. So what's the big deal?" which is why I don't spank anyone else's children. I don't even spank my Nieces and Nephews. and I won't allow anyone else to spank my children. I would make sure they tell me if any adult spanks them and you bet I will let anyone watching my children that to them, Spanking is NOT an option... ever. As their Father, that responsiblity is MINE and MINE alone... well if my wife wants to spank then rules will be laid down. and we will let each other know when, how many and the cause for each spanking.

Even without sexual motives on the part of the punisher, spanking can interfere with a child's normal sexual and psychological development. Because the buttocks are so close to the genitals and so multiply linked to sexual nerve centers, slapping them can trigger powerful and involuntary sensations of sexual pleasure. This can happen even in very young children, and even in spite of great, clearly upsetting pain. ... that bicycle seat is now not looking so innocent. and that is much closer to the genitals than a spanking could ever get. and is that why girls always want a pony or horse to ride? hmmmmm....

An additional danger is that the confusing mixture of pleasure with pain will become the basis for permanent sadomasochistic tendencies. Sadomasochism, in which a person takes pleasure in inflicting or receiving pain, drives behavior that is destructive to oneself and to others, and therefore to society at large. While the intensity and background of individuals' sadomasochism varies widely, the great majority of studied cases point to a single origin: childhood whippings, usually on the buttocks.
notice... WHIPPINGS... not spankings, but WHIPPINGS. something that most spankers here say is crossing the line into abuse.

The odds that spanking a child will lead to psychosexual aberrations would be difficult to calculate. However, the fact that there is any chance at all of these serious problems occurring should be reason enough to do away with the practice of spanking. The risks are completely unnecessary. so can the act of denying the child anything. like say a toy or candy. THERE IS A CHANCE that their self-esteem could be damaged, so don't deny your child anything he/she wants. even if they don't listen to you. If you let your child wander around, THERE IS A CHANCE that the child would be injured, so keep em in the playpen. but that's restricting a child, THERE IS A CHANCE that it could damage his confidence and independancy, then there's the fact that THERE IS A CHANCE that a child can develop an allergy to foods. so don't feed your children anything. don't want them getting sick now.

so don't raise children... THERE IS BIG CHANCE you could mess it up!

Imagine your reaction if an authority figure, having discovered some misdeed of yours, pinned you across his or her lap and began slapping your buttocks. Painfulness aside, most people would consider this a rude, inexcusable assault on their modesty, no matter what they had done to "deserve" it. As I said earlier and in other spanking threads. no one spanks my child but me or the wife. not my brother, not my grandparents, no one.

and most children would think it rude to be sent to any authoritive figure just because they were "having fun" and "Playing around" so what. we should do away with punishing children for being children.

Many people might assume that children, especially very young children, are too ignorant or naive to feel such indignity, or perhaps too impressed by the physical pain of spanking to care about much else. The truth is, however, that spanking can seriously injure a child's sense of modesty. When a child is old enough to be told by adults to act modestly (which is not merely a social requirement, but also a wise precaution against potential child molesters), that child is likely to internalize and develop modesty as a personal value that will increase with age. This value persists even though the child might lapse into immodest behavior from time to time, as most children do. Consequently, the child whose buttocks are slapped may experience deep and lasting sexual shame, especially if the punishment is done in front of others or involves a state of undress. Actually, there are some adults who consciously emphasize this humiliation as part of the punishment (and some, for that matter, who do not limit spanking to younger children or even to preteens). But just as inflicting sexual shame is an unthinkable punishment for adults in any civilized society, it is surely an outrageous way to treat children. spanking is a private matter. I've always believed this and still do. and as I said. one, maybe two, but never more than three smacks. not slaps, not whippings, not punches, but open palm smacks on the buttocks, not face, not arms, not stomach...

It is a strange inconsistency, furthermore, for adults to exhort children to modesty while punishing them in a way that aggressively denies their modesty and privacy. Such mixed messages tend to confuse children or make them skeptical toward adult authority. Especially if adults hope to instill children with strong values of modesty, self-respect, and respect for others -- values that become very important through the trials of puberty and adolescence - adults should teach by example and refrain from the disrespectful practice of bottom-slapping. and the same thing can be applied to wood/stone/plastic/metal seating implements as well as those bicycle seats, potty training, and even dressing a child. imagine being naked infront of other people! such mixed messages!

hurry up and wait!

It is not disputed that spanking has a sexual side as well as a punitive side. Indeed, our popular culture and media suggest there is wide awareness of this fact, however unspoken. Society has nonetheless failed to squarely address the serious implications of spanking's punitive/sexual duality. Considering the power of sex to corrupt, along with the coercive nature of punishment, we should be alarmed at the very idea of discipline through spanking -- all the more so when it is directed at a group of people as powerless, fragile and unsuspecting as children.and this whole thing is riddles with could, mights, chances are...

Kids could poke an eye out running in the yard. they could sustain serious injuries climbing things. they could even die while playing in their home. and all this will affect ALL children. even those that don't spank. I think these researchers got their priorites wrong.

and now the evidence... whoops, sorry QUOTES.

and lets looks at all these quotes about the Ebils of spanking...

"Spanking on the buttocks can produce definitely erotic sensations, including sexual orgasm, in some children. (how many children? surly with such a positive statement, a study was done. So how many children?) Some of these children have been known to cause themselves to be spanked, by misconducting themselves on purpose and by pretending distress while receiving the desired 'punishment'...(Is it proven that they "caused themselves to be spanked" because they recieved sexual gratification? or because they are just kids who like to misbehave? and I will say, anyone who uses spanking that much is using it too often.) The frequency with which this happens is not known, although it may not be altogether rare. .. (after all, it showed up so many time in the unknown number of children they observed.)The spankings in these cases (what cases? are they studying a specific type of case, and not spanking in general?) may have been given for the adult's own perverted gratification ('sadism')(then that is abuse. I don't think anyone would argue differently. since most times [using the same statiscial wording used throughout the article, mind you] those people would use spanking first and often); or at least there might have been culpable awareness and toleration of the child's sexual reaction on the part of the adult. ...Only some decades ago perverts masquerading as governesses or tutors were reportedly anything but rare in some European countries." (1965) (and they masqueraded as those tutors and governesses just to spank the child... not because they were sexual predators, but because they want to spank a child.)

J. F. Oliven, pathologist. Sexual Hygiene and

Pathology. "In many cases, the avowed disciplinary value of flagellation in schools and colleges was a mere pretense to enable sadists to secure sexual titillation." (1886)

anthropologist.The History of Corporal Punishment. "When a child is hit on the buttocks...this kind of violent touch can be sexualized in the child's mind not only because of a real flow of blood into the genitalia, but also because of a longing for intimacy with the parent: if painful physical touch is the only fulfillment of that longing, then this can `feel good'." (1995)

Shere Hite, sex researcher, sociopsychologist. The Hite Report on the Family. So what Dr Hite is saying... children actually do want this intimacy... it's not child abuse, they WANT it.

and if spanking is the ONLY form of physical touch these chilren are getting. Spanking is the LEAST of their problems. and you want to remove that only source of physical intimacy that they long for?

Too much... will be more selective from now on.

Page 42. "These are the realities that most of us remain eager to deny... So long as children are beaten by adults... so nevermind about the bully that's beating on Billy, as long as it's not an adult...

The New York Times (12/22/92) The director of a Manhattan junior high school for children at risk of dropping out was arrested yesterday and charged with sexually abusing a 14-year-old boy who was a ninth-grader at the school, officials said... In addition, [Robert Viteretti, deputy commissioner of investigation for the New York City School District] said that after reports of the arrest spread yesterday, two former students telephoned his office to say that they had also been abused by the director. .. Mr. Viteretti said that on two occasions [the director] asked the boy into his office, then closed and locked his door and pulled down the boy's pants and underwear. 'He would start spanking the boy for his own sexual gratification, and stroking and caressing his genitalia,' he said... [The director] has admitted touching and spanking the boy.

Reuters News Service (11/30/93) A dozen Roman Catholic priests sexually abused 34 boys over two decades at a now-closed seminary, a three-year investigation by the Franciscan Order has found... The abuses included nude games, spanking, fondling, masturbation, and oral sex, a panel of six investigators found. yep, nevermind the fondling, masturbation, and oral sex. we have to stop the SPANKING... it's the most dangerous thing being done to the kids!

The Sacramento Bee (3/26/95) PHOENIX -- The headmaster of a private school has been arrested and accused of forcing a 15-year-old girl to remove her clothing and kneel in prayer while he struck her with a wooden paddle.

The girl's mother witnessed the paddling, too frightened to do anything to stop it, Phoenix police said. The three swats left bruises and welts on the girl's buttocks. The teen's 6-year-old sister, waiting in the next room, also heard her sister's cries for help, police said.

The teen was not even a student at the school. Her mother had brought her there to consider enrolling her in September.
and the reasoning for him doing this is probably not discipline. and hitting with an implement is what most people (including most pro spankers) are against. and the mother just stood there? why wasn't she arrested for failure to assist? There was no chair she could grab to ward off the headmaster?

funny all those new articles are not JUST about spanking but other form of assaults as well, beating, whipping, hitting with objects, =|= spanking. and neither does masturbation (even tho it is called Spanking the monkey) fondling and oral sex =|= spanking.

so while I am for spanking (and spanking is one - three open smacks on the buttocks) I am against any use of implements, paddles, shoes, etc... and also against it being used First or even near First.

and also, realize this is so Focused on the buttocks, this article may tell people "it's ok to spank your child in the joints, stomach, back... but not the buttocks or any other sexual areas.

and with all the "Supposed problems it COULD cause" I'm surprise it didn't put buttsex up there. since both are assaults on the buttocks.

So yes, I read the article with an open mind. I can see some points, but in truth, most of the article is guesswork, suppositions, maybe's and Chances are being passed off as ZOMG! IT'S 100% TRUTH!

..and think about this as you read: would you ever consider spanking your daughter's breasts as a punishment - especially if she was still a child?

What would my hypothetical three-year old daughter be doing with breasts, exactly.. :p That's classic.

Anyway, spanking ceases to be effective at about that age, so no.

[megasnip]
So yes, I read the article with an open mind. I can see some points, but in truth, most of the article is guesswork, suppositions, maybe's and Chances are being passed off as ZOMG! IT'S 100% TRUTH!

I agree, I wasn't impressed with the article. And it felt like it had an agenda - starting off with the conclusion "spanking is bad, m'kay" and working backward with dubiously supported arguments.

As it happens, an anti-smacking law has been passed just in the last few weeks in NZ. So it will be interesting to see how things pan out. If people find a sustainable way to do without spanking, all power to them; I'm just relieved it won't be an issue for me.

JuNii that was all so true. Im with you on all of that.

To follow up on some of those points you made,

So me fighting with my 11 year old sister is sexual because she insists on pulling down my pants (Not underwear) to annoy me and her hand may make contact with my prosterior?

Does that mean when I in tuen grab her around the chest from behind that she gains a sick pleasure from my hand crushing her chest cavity in as retribution for the pantsing?

I agree, I wasn't impressed with the article. And it felt like it had an agenda - starting off with the conclusion "spanking is bad, m'kay" and working backward with dubiously supported arguments.

As it happens, an anti-smacking law has been passed just in the last few weeks in NZ. So it will be interesting to see how things pan out. If people find a sustainable way to do without spanking, all power to them; I'm just relieved it won't be an issue for me.

I wanna see how it's gonna be enforced.

Like the parents are thinking "OOH! I'm going to hit you in sexual areas"

If they were thinking that male children would be kicked in the balls rather than spanked.

Besides they were thinking "It causes pain, children ovoid pain so they eventually learn to stop doing whatever bad thing they're doing" Kinda like how putting spices on things for tething puppies trains them not to bite certain stuff or how a drill sergeant beating you up for tiny infractions trains you to be top notch.

It's not about what the parents are THINKING, it's about what they're doing. If a parent walked up to another parent (one who advocated spanking the buttocks) and said that they'd just spanked their 13-year-old daughter's breasts, I doubt very much that the other parent would see it as acceptable - for all the reasons that can equally be applied to spanking the buttocks.

EDIT: *wishes people had read the article with open minds. clearly they haven't. i'm not saying that because they disagree, but because of their extremely flawed reasoning for disagreeing, which smacks of the "I'm right, everyone else is wrong" childish mentality*

It's not about what the parents are THINKING, it's about what they're doing. If a parent walked up to another parent (one who advocated spanking the buttocks) and said that they'd just spanked their 13-year-old daughter's breasts, I doubt very much that the other parent would see it as acceptable - for all the reasons that can equally be applied to spanking the buttocks.

EDIT: *wishes people had read the article with open minds. clearly they haven't. i'm not saying that because they disagree, but because of their extremely flawed reasoning for disagreeing, which smacks of the "I'm right, everyone else is wrong" childish mentality*

The fact remains, you don't spank thirteen-year olds. Spanking works up until the age a child learns to cope with small amounts of pain.. a spanking isn't going to help discipline a teenager, and severe corporal punishment is already illegal.

This article was complete garbage.
It was quite obviously written by someone who had their own particular agenda - which had little to do with the actual spanking of children, but more likely was about their own repressed sexual problems.

Just go join a spanking group and have fun.

You hit the butt because it is a nice fleshy part that doesnt damage easily, not because it is 'near the genitals'.

Attempting to sexualize spanking children is disingenuous at best.

It's not about what the parents are THINKING, it's about what they're doing. If a parent walked up to another parent (one who advocated spanking the buttocks) and said that they'd just spanked their 13-year-old daughter's breasts, I doubt very much that the other parent would see it as acceptable - for all the reasons that can equally be applied to spanking the buttocks.

EDIT: *wishes people had read the article with open minds. clearly they haven't. i'm not saying that because they disagree, but because of their extremely flawed reasoning for disagreeing, which smacks of the "I'm right, everyone else is wrong" childish mentality*
please enlighten us which reasonings are "Extremely flawed" and please show how YOU read the article with an "Open Mind" and not a "Spanking is Ebil" frame of mind.

if you find yourself agreeing with the post, please say why and prove you read it with an open mind.

Besides they were thinking "It causes pain, children ovoid pain so they eventually learn to stop doing whatever bad thing they're doing" Kinda like how putting spices on things for tething puppies trains them not to bite certain stuff

so you equate raising a child with training an animal?


or how a drill sergeant beating you up for tiny infractions trains you to be top notch.
that's actually physical assault, if a drill sergeant beats up a person, he will probably go to jail, if you hit your kid, many people would award you the "bestest parent ever" award..something is wrong with that.




My parents 'prefered' to smack me in the face rather than the buttocks. Its more unexpected as there is no convoluted "come and lie across my lap" routine, and apparently, it saved me from being psychosexually misalligned.

Smacking is meant to be a shock. The more shocking it is, the less often it will be needed. The physical pain of gluttomial attack can easily be supressed, but to have a parent approach you calmly, and totally violate your trust by smacking you. That sends a definite signal.

what kind of signal?




I feel that the biggest mistake anti-spanking people make is acting like children go through the same thought processes as experienced adults. They're young. They're foolish. This might sound stereotypical but they're brains aren't fully formed.
so to help them learn how "real life" is, then you smack them?


When I was younger I got spanked. I have now went 8 years without a spank, or grounding, or punishment of any kind. I just dont do anything wrong.
most likely you just don't get caught.

The fact remains, you don't spank thirteen-year olds. Spanking works up until the age a child learns to cope with small amounts of pain.. a spanking isn't going to help discipline a teenager, and severe corporal punishment is already illegal.

so it's okay to hit them until they are old enough to do damage when they hit back?

...here: http://www.tvtalkshows.com/board/old/topic/15797-1.html

see for yourself. read with an open mind, not an "I'm right no matter what anyone else says" childish mind. and think about this as you read: would you ever consider spanking your daughter's breasts as a punishment - especially if she was still a child?

HELL NO!!!!!

i couldnt be bothered to go through the article line by line like junii did. i didnt even read it all the way through to be honest.

it does have a point. you might not like the point but its still there. its one of the reasons that you dont spank your 13 year old daughter. probably not the primary reason but its still one of the reasons.

the problem is, if you spank, the buttocks is the ONLY acceptable place to strike your child. any place else has too high a chance for permanent damage. if you struck your child on the face like you strike them on the bottom, you could cause brain damage. if you struck them on the back you could dislocate a vertebrae, if you struck them on the arm you could dislocate a shoulder. if you struck them on the abdomen you could damage internal organs. if you struck them on the chest you could break a rib. some people do use switches on their childrens legs but switches can break the skin and leave marks for the world to see.

so you equate raising a child with training an animal?



that's actually physical assault, if a drill sergeant beats up a person, he will probably go to jail, if you hit your kid, many people would award you the "bestest parent ever" award..something is wrong with that.






what kind of signal?





so to help them learn how "real life" is, then you smack them?



most likely you just don't get caught.



so it's okay to hit them until they are old enough to do damage when they hit back?

Smunkee, do you really want to go through this again?

Smunkee, do you really want to go through this again?

somebody wants to... they keep bringing this topic up! :headbang:

somebody wants to... they keep bringing this topic up! :headbang:

I know. It gives me a headache :D

I agree, I wasn't impressed with the article. And it felt like it had an agenda - starting off with the conclusion "spanking is bad, m'kay" and working backward with dubiously supported arguments.

As it happens, an anti-smacking law has been passed just in the last few weeks in NZ. So it will be interesting to see how things pan out. If people find a sustainable way to do without spanking, all power to them; I'm just relieved it won't be an issue for me.

Actually, I think there was something involving pinching the neck in a nonharmful way... Or was it just the pressure point?

Like the parents are thinking "OOH! I'm going to hit you in sexual areas"

If they were thinking that male children would be kicked in the balls rather than spanked.

Besides they were thinking "It causes pain, children ovoid pain so they eventually learn to stop doing whatever bad thing they're doing" Kinda like how putting spices on things for tething puppies trains them not to bite certain stuff or how a drill sergeant beating you up for tiny infractions trains you to be top notch.
parents and educators should refrain from any of this:
- spanking in the buttocks is bad as its a sexual punishment. alas, in the genitals too and on the breasts (which often is unthinkable, but not always), which also can damage their sexual organs. these are if not the most, some of the most sensitive and vulnerable parts of the body
- smacking the face is bad as it can cause blindness; hearing loss, deformations on the jaws, and nasal/oral cavities (including broken bones, but often "just" deformed bones, ie, teeth slided over the inner cavity on one side and slided over the outer cavity on the other side); and other problems
- pulling the ears can deform them, causing long or stretched ears, or "elephant" ears
- kicking and punching anywhere, as its abusive punishment, often associated with bullying or fighting, therefore not an act of authority but of aggression. it is not comparable to smacking

so instead of any of such punishments, i suggest instead smacking the hands, with your hand (and not a paddle, as such will imply parents need a tool to have authority) if one must punish in a corporal form. this way you wont deform your kids, nor traumatize them, nor provide them sexual gratification, but instead punish them in a way they will get the lesson.;)

Smunkee, do you really want to go through this again?

not with you.

What's wrong with a spanking now and then?

What's wrong with a spanking now and then?

none if you don't mean to hit sensible/dangerous areas and with just cause

What's wrong with a spanking now and then?

nothing if you don't mind physically assaulting people.

nothing if you don't mind physically assaulting people.

Children are not people.

Children are not people.

you suck ass as a troll.

you suck ass as a troll.

Until a child turns 18 the parent has the right to repremand said child.

Until a child turns 18 the parent has the right to repremand said child.

zmog you have no life

the children are those who have rights. they have the right to have a father and a mother. its not the mother or the father who have the "right" to have the kids with them when they so want. children are dependent persons, but still persons

you have no right to do whatever you want with them. you only have the obligation of raise them, care for them, educate them and so on. not the right to punish them

retard... you sound like a freaking elder conservationist who has nothing better to do than impose old trends that never should have been implemented...:headbang:

just ask yourself... would you want people to do that to you? then why you want to do it to others... maybe someone did it to you when you were younger... and you got that voice on your head asking for revenge... you need counseling buddy

Children are not people.
Odd, you're saying that fetuses are people in your other thread, but here you're saying that children out of the womb are not. So in your world fertilized eggs through birth are people, then after birth till 18 they're not, and then they are again.

Wow... how... just seriously screwed up.

Odd, you're saying that fetuses are people in your other thread, but here you're saying that children out of the womb are not. So in your world fertilized eggs through birth are people, then after birth till 18 they're not, and then they are again.

Wow... how... just seriously screwed up.

Childer should be treated like children. They have not yet earned the respect to be treated like you and I. To spank is one thing, to kill is another.

parents and educators should refrain from any of this: agree. spanking should never be done on an impulse. it should be controlled and used wisely.
- spanking in the buttocks is bad as its a sexual punishment. alas, in the genitals too and on the breasts (which often is unthinkable, but not always), which also can damage their sexual organs. these are if not the most, some of the most sensitive and vulnerable parts of the bodybut is it ok to fondle the buttocks? to rub them and place your fingers or any object between the cheeks of the buttocks? same for the female genitilia or holding the male penis of a boy?

think about it... especially when you're potty training them.

- smacking the face is bad as it can cause blindness; hearing loss, deformations on the jaws, and nasal/oral cavities (including broken bones, but often "just" deformed bones, ie, teeth slided over the inner cavity on one side and slided over the outer cavity on the other side); and other problems
- pulling the ears can deform them, causing long or stretched ears, or "elephant" ears
- kicking and punching anywhere, as its abusive punishment, often associated with bullying or fighting, therefore not an act of authority but of aggression. it is not comparable to smackingagreed and not argued.

so instead of any of such punishments, i suggest instead smacking the hands, with your hand (and not a paddle, as such will imply parents need a tool to have authority) if one must punish in a corporal form. this way you wont deform your kids, nor traumatize them, nor provide them sexual gratification, but instead punish them in a way they will get the lesson.;) smack the hands? where bones are thinner and sensitive nerves are located?

Until a child turns 18 the parent has the right to repremand said child.and how does that show that a child is not a person. a child is not an ADULT person, but a child is a person.

Tom and Jerry and Popeye might have been extremely violent (even by our more lenient modern standards), but that didn't mean young kids in the 1940s would voilently attack eachother with frying pans and uppercuts.
Or eat spinach. It was probably the Spinach that did it, now that I think about it, all violence was teamed with healthy food that most people don't like, therefore making violence "blech" by association. We need more violent people eating tofu on tv.

Childer should be treated like children. They have not yet earned the respect to be treated like you and I. To spank is one thing, to kill is another.


You missed the point of the post.

You are contradicting yourself. Go read the post again.

Childer should be treated like children. They have not yet earned the respect to be treated like you and I. To spank is one thing, to kill is another.
Look! Up in the sky! It's a bird! It's a plane! It's the point! And there it goes...

I doubt anti-spanking hippies are as open-minded as they say they are. Seriously, the ass is a sexual place? Sure, it's close to the penis/vagina, but so are the legs and belly. The main reason why perverts want to see ass is because it's covered all the time. It became a forbidden part of the human body. Feet are covered up for obvious reasons. Try stepping on a rock or hit sidewalk barefoot. Hurts like hell.

The ass is scandalous. It's forbidden. That's why sexual perverts want it. It's because they aren't supposed to see it. It's no more than a fetish, like fur fettishes (for people who dress up as animals for sexual reasons or have sexual fantasies about anthromorphic animals. I, myself, find some of the more human anthros to be attractive. Mostly for the human features) or foot fettishes.

I understand that the ass is sexual for those with ass fetishes. I don't like looking at asses because that's where shit comes out. I understand that attacking an adult is illegal. So is forcefully making an adult work for free. Are we going to ban chores? After all, kids are forced to do chores. Isn't that slavery? Isn't slavery illegal?

Kids are sexual? I don't remember being sexual as a kid. I wasn't somehow turned on or sexually violated when my ass was black and blue. I think it's all the PC hippy crap. You know, try to not offend anyone, which is often impossible with some people. It's why you can get sued if someone trips in your house.

I understand that the ass is sexual for those with ass fetishes. I don't like looking at asses because that's where shit comes out. I understand that attacking an adult is illegal. So is forcefully making an adult work for free. Are we going to ban chores? After all, kids are forced to do chores. Isn't that slavery? Isn't slavery illegal?
Well, I'll ignore much of the incoherent rant, and address this part. Let's look at it the other way round. Who gets everything for nothing whilst the other party in the relationship works to provide? The child. If anything, it is the parents who are usually "slaving" away for nothing. Encouraging a child to become responsible for itself and pull its own weight (when it's getting everything at zero cost) is hardly slavery...

What's wrong with a spanking now and then?

Truthfully nothing provided you don't go overboard with it.

Children are not people.

*snorts with laughter*

Look! Up in the sky! It's a bird! It's a plane! It's the point! And there it goes...

It's a good thing I'm at work now... it's easy to just toss one keyboard that had soda sprayed on it and replace it with a spare. :D

Y'know, the problem with spanking is that it just doesn't go far enough. Hell knows that you're going to tan that little brat's ass and they're just going to get around to more mischief in the long run.

I say beheading is the only answer. Have a couple extra kids, so that you can lose a couple and make an effect on the rest of them.

"Didja see what happend to Bobby when he didn't finish eating his brussel sprouts? Didja? Don't make me get out my machete..."




Could someone kindly point me to the nearest adoption agency?

Y'know, the problem with spanking is that it just doesn't go far enough. Hell knows that you're going to tan that little brat's ass and they're just going to get around to more mischief in the long run.

I say beheading is the only answer. Have a couple extra kids, so that you can lose a couple and make an effect on the rest of them.

"Didja see what happend to Bobby when he didn't finish eating his brussel sprouts? Didja? Don't make me get out my machete..."




Could someone kindly point me to the nearest adoption agency?

It's a good thing I'm at work now... it's easy to just toss one keyboard that had soda sprayed on it and replace it with a spare. :D

Something similar almost happened to my laptop after reading Mikesburg's post. :p

It's a good thing I'm at work now... it's easy to just toss one keyboard that had soda sprayed on it and replace it with a spare. :D
Sorry... :D :p

Every time I read the title of this thread I see, 'The Best Spanking I've Ever Seen'.

And then I get disappointed all over again.

Every time I read the title of this thread I see, 'The Best Spanking I've Ever Seen'.

And then I get disappointed all over again.

:D

I'm assuming you've seen a few good spankings...

:D

I'm assuming you've seen a few good spankings...

Well I was hoping there'd be a video...

And you make good assumptions:)

It's not about what the parents are THINKING, it's about what they're doing. If a parent walked up to another parent (one who advocated spanking the buttocks) and said that they'd just spanked their 13-year-old daughter's breasts, I doubt very much that the other parent would see it as acceptable - for all the reasons that can equally be applied to spanking the buttocks.

EDIT: *wishes people had read the article with open minds. clearly they haven't. i'm not saying that because they disagree, but because of their extremely flawed reasoning for disagreeing, which smacks of the "I'm right, everyone else is wrong" childish mentality*

How sad. JuNii gives you a long explanation of why the reasoning the article is flawed and your reply is to suggest, without making any arguments, that he, and everyone else who noticed what he did, is childish. How about, you know, making an argument? Are you debating or preaching?

Children are not people.
Can I rape you now? You have the mind of a child, so 1/2 must count... somehow.

How about this for an argument:

The risk of slight damage and the supposed sexual harassment is worth the lessons that the child learns through the punishment.

A summary: If you spank a child not only are you molesting it, and getting off on it (you know it makes you moist), but the child also enjoys it on a deep sexual level. Therefore, spanking is almost the same as fornication with a child!


Yeahh.... I'm sure parents are running around making up reasons to punish their children so they can pull down the childs pants and slap their tender ass for their sexual gratification.

My nephew likes to throw everything off the coffee table, climb onto it, and then dropkick anyone within range. That stopped after he got his ass smacked a few times, and now he no longer climbs onto things.

Why is it right to spank a child? Well children must be punished for wrong doings, even the greatest idiot knows that. But how to punish them? Surely not MENTALLY, as mental punishment (cursing, telling them you hate them, or other mental "attacks") are unhealthy to a person at any age. The punishment must come in a physical capacity.
Alright.. so where to hit? You obviously can't slap your child across the face. The face is a tender section of the anatomy. It has the lips, the nose, the eyes... It's crazy to hit a child in the face.

How about a nice hard slap in the chest? Yeah that's nice.. except that getting hit in the chest could cause heart disruption. Not a major issue, but major enough to warrant not hitting your children across the chest.

The stomach? Yeah... no... moving on.
The groin?
The knees?
Their hands?

You can hit a childs fingers, and they'll learn, but sometimes just scolding them with a slap across the knuckles doesn't get the messsage across, and that's why you spank the child. It hurts more, but doesn't cause actual "harm" to the child, and they certainly DON'T want it to happen again.

Children obtaining sexual pleasure from spanking? Well if you have a sado-masichist child, I don't think there's much anything you can do to help them, but if you start hitting HARDER it won't feel so good, and will genuinely feel painful.

I know this personally as a person that enjoys pain on a deep level. There is a theshold. If your kid likes getting spanked... slap their ass til they cry. It won't feel so good anymore.

zmog you have no life

the children are those who have rights. they have the right to have a father and a mother. its not the mother or the father who have the "right" to have the kids with them when they so want. children are dependent persons, but still persons

you have no right to do whatever you want with them. you only have the obligation of raise them, care for them, educate them and so on. not the right to punish them

retard... you sound like a freaking elder conservationist who has nothing better to do than impose old trends that never should have been implemented...:headbang:

just ask yourself... would you want people to do that to you? then why you want to do it to others... maybe someone did it to you when you were younger... and you got that voice on your head asking for revenge... you need counseling buddy
If children are people, why can't they smoke, drink, consent to sex, stay out past curfew, swear profusely, take on a professional career, or drive a car?

Oh wait.. that's because they're not adults, and as such have extraordinarily limited rights until they are old enough to understand the world. As a small child the only things a child understands is reward and punishment. They play nice and they get a small gift (a new toy let's say), but if they misbehave, scream at you and tell you that they hate you... You give them a good hard slap across the hand/ass and remind them that if they hate you so much they can just fucking leave.

Let's see who the child hates when they realize you feed, clothe, house, teach, and raise them.

Your logic has more holes in it than underpants in Mothland.

Y'know, the problem with spanking is that it just doesn't go far enough. Hell knows that you're going to tan that little brat's ass and they're just going to get around to more mischief in the long run.

I say beheading is the only answer. Have a couple extra kids, so that you can lose a couple and make an effect on the rest of them.

"Didja see what happend to Bobby when he didn't finish eating his brussel sprouts? Didja? Don't make me get out my machete..."




Could someone kindly point me to the nearest adoption agency?

Alas, that might not send the point. After all, they're your "favorite" child. That's why you didn't kill him. This is why we need to legalize cloning. I don't care of the child is braindead. I just want an exact living replica of said child. That way I can show the child his own body ceasing to flow with life, as the blood flows from the wound.

Only a retarded child wouldn't understand "Oh FUCK! I'm already dead!" and immediately straighten their ass out.

So... are you pro-cloning?

the thighs are just as close to the genital as the buttocks... so minis-skirts and shorts should also be banned for the same reason? what of the stomach around the belly button? I'm not offended by bare midriffs and bare thighs. and would laugh if someone mooned me.

It's probably why they(miniskirts and shorts) are regarded as inappropriate.

It's probably why they(miniskirts and shorts) are regarded as inappropriate.

Miniskirts are required school uniform in most Catholic schools.
You may be thinking of "microskirts", which are the kinds that hookers wear.

There's really nothing hotter than a girl spreading her thighs though *smiles wishfully*

But having a girl show some ass cleavage isn't hot. It's gross.

So does this mean that spanking isn't sexual, because anal is gross?
Oh wait... That's right. That's an OPINION...

Just like the entire "article" on spanking.

Physical correction is just a bad tool for LAZY parents! No shit sherlock, it's illegal to hit adults unless it's self defence but legal to hit kids? How sick is that? Thankfully, spanking and all forms of child abuse are illegal here in Sweden, and you don't see our kids running around being violent criminals because of that either.

Physical correction is just a bad tool for LAZY parents! No shit sherlock, it's illegal to hit adults unless it's self defence but legal to hit kids? How sick is that? Thankfully, spanking and all forms of child abuse are illegal here in Sweden, and you don't see our kids running around being violent criminals because of that either

You don't see Sweden having a very tough youth either. You could say that Swedish kids are pansies.

You don't see Sweden having a very tough youth either. You could say that Swedish kids are pansies.

Now, really? Care to develop that argument or just throwing shit because you got nothing better to say?

Now, really? Care to develop that argument or just throwing shit because you got nothing better to say?

Actually it's neither.
It was a joke because all of this spanking discussion has gotten boring.

But heres a point for you:
It's a traditional stereotype that parents living in the ghettos are harsh on their children. Spanking with belts, throwing shoes at them, and all other manner of violent punishments, well beyond the age of effectiveness.

You will notice that in the ghettos, teenagers fail miserably in school, are more likely to be involved in violent crimes, and have a disregard for the law.

Now in Sweden such punishment is UNSPEAKABLE. The children there don't disregard the law, nor do they fail miserably in school. Unfortunately, the children don't have the fighting instinct to survive in a business world, and that's why you've never heard of a Swedish billionaire.

Now keep in mind that this is all just ideas to be argued against, and I don't even begin to dream of making a perfect point, BUT - Wouldn't it make sense to balance it in the middle, say.. with spanking? This way the children are "brought in line" enough to have the drive to fight against adversity, but don't resent it enough to become hardened criminals.


n_n I look forward to the argument against that.

Actually it's neither.
It was a joke because all of this spanking discussion has gotten boring.

But heres a point for you:
It's a traditional stereotype that parents living in the ghettos are harsh on their children. Spanking with belts, throwing shoes at them, and all other manner of violent punishments, well beyond the age of effectiveness.

You will notice that in the ghettos, teenagers fail miserably in school, are more likely to be involved in violent crimes, and have a disregard for the law.

Now in Sweden such punishment is UNSPEAKABLE. The children there don't disregard the law, nor do they fail miserably in school. Unfortunately, the children don't have the fighting instinct to survive in a business world, and that's why you've never heard of a Swedish billionaire.

Now keep in mind that this is all just ideas to be argued against, and I don't even begin to dream of making a perfect point, BUT - Wouldn't it make sense to balance it in the middle, say.. with spanking? This way the children are "brought in line" enough to have the drive to fight against adversity, but don't resent it enough to become hardened criminals.


n_n I look forward to the argument against that.
Business people spank each other?

Actually it's neither.
It was a joke because all of this spanking discussion has gotten boring.

But heres a point for you:
It's a traditional stereotype that parents living in the ghettos are harsh on their children. Spanking with belts, throwing shoes at them, and all other manner of violent punishments, well beyond the age of effectiveness.

You will notice that in the ghettos, teenagers fail miserably in school, are more likely to be involved in violent crimes, and have a disregard for the law.

Now in Sweden such punishment is UNSPEAKABLE. The children there don't disregard the law, nor do they fail miserably in school. Unfortunately, the children don't have the fighting instinct to survive in a business world, and that's why you've never heard of a Swedish billionaire.

Now keep in mind that this is all just ideas to be argued against, and I don't even begin to dream of making a perfect point, BUT - Wouldn't it make sense to balance it in the middle, say.. with spanking? This way the children are "brought in line" enough to have the drive to fight against adversity, but don't resent it enough to become hardened criminals.


n_n I look forward to the argument against that.


Alright, here we go:) Swedish billionare, well, there are a few, but as we only have roughly 9 million citizens, compared to the US 300+ it's bound to be fewer. Ingvar Kamprad, founder and owner of IKEA, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ingvar_Kamprad#Net_worth. There's some debate over his exact net worth, but suffice to say he's among the top dogs.
Just to name the richest one. I can dig up a few others if you want to, but they aren't very famous.

Counting the standard of living and average income and social benefits, there are few matches for Sweden. But this is all beside the point.

The point is that I would really like some sort of study to see the benefits of physical punishment, which other forms of punishment(perhaps grounding, a good yelling, no allowance or such) doesn't provide.
I'm sure its all very effective, the slapping and spanking, but is it actually benificial for the child? I would imagine, and I've got my share of friends who has been spanked as kids, that growing up and respecting your parent out of fear of pain and not out of love and care is not something good. Thats my liberal, Swedish take on the point. And yes, it's harder to do without the spanking and hitting, it's easier to slap your child than to talk to her or him. But if you raise children because its easy, I think you're unfit to be a parent. Love and tough love isn't the same.

Unfortunately, the children don't have the fighting instinct to survive in a business world, and that's why you've never heard of a Swedish billionaire.


OT
Just for fun, and a little hijack of the thread, sorry about that:

The US has 371 billionares.
Sweden has 8 billionares.

Seems we got a a bit lower billionare-per-million-citizens-rate, but not by all that much:)

/OT

OT
Just for fun, and a little hijack of the thread, sorry about that:

The US has 371 billionares.
Sweden has 8 billionares.

Seems we got a a bit lower billionare-per-million-citizens-rate, but not by all that much:)

/OT

Sweden has a slightly higher quality of life http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0778562.html, so that should make up for the difference.

Sweden has a slightly higher quality of life http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0778562.html, so that should make up for the difference.

Yeah, and these sorts of measurements always fall short when it comes to defining the 'better country' anyway... So its a pretty meaningless debate.

Now, more talk about spanking! Is it legal to spank a consenting girlfriend or wife? :D

Yeah, and these sorts of measurements always fall short when it comes to defining the 'better country' anyway... So its a pretty meaningless debate.

Now, more talk about spanking! Is it legal to spank a consenting girlfriend or wife? :D

It is legal but not to be trusted. Spank a girlfriend or wife too hard and suddenly she wants to be the Dominatrix...

It is legal but not to be trusted. Spank a girlfriend or wife too hard and suddenly she wants to be the Dominatrix...

Hmm, good point and a good advice: Never spank harder than you're ready to recive yourself. Words of wizdom from DM :)

Physical correction is just a bad tool for LAZY parents!

Lazy parents my left buttocks. I will tell you right now that my parents were not lazy.

Lazy parents my left buttocks. I will tell you right now that my parents were not lazy.

How come they couldn't be bothered to talk to you instead of resorting to violence to prove their superiority? Notice I said lazy parents and not lazy people. The most hardworking person can be a lazy parent who doesn't take the damn time to teach the child what's right and what's not by example and instead use violence towards someone who depends on them for protection. If I see someone assaulting their child here, I'll call the coppers so fast they won't be able to land a second slap and have their parental rights removed. Actually I havn't even seen a parent hit their kid yet, but that's just a good thing.

How come they couldn't be bothered to talk to you instead of resorting to violence to prove their superiority?

Could it be that talking was ineffective with me? I see you never had to deal with special needs people.

Notice I said lazy parents and not lazy people. The most hardworking person can be a lazy parent who doesn't take the damn time to teach the child what's right and what's not by example and instead use violence towards someone who depends on them for protection.

And you do not think that my parents did talk to me? My God, my mother hauled me down to the Juvi officer at the police station after a little vandelism I did at a retreat.

If I see someone assaulting their child here, I'll call the coppers so fast they won't be able to land a second slap and have their parental rights removed.

Unfortunately, cops have no jurisdiction on discipline unless it is excessive. One swat on the butt is not abuse. I was never spanked more than once as a kid.

I was spanked as a child and now I'm gay. =[

Maybe its not a big issue with me as my three children have always been very well behaved.

I have smacked each of them once,so far, in their lives- an open hand,across the backside,once.
I dont believe thats abuse by any means-it was necessary to make them aware that their beahavior at the moment was totally unacceptable-sometomes,they need to be brought out of their altered state.

You dont hit the child because you're angry or to give them pain as a lesson-its to end behavior thats a problem.

The subject came up once with my oldest-13yrs old-he said he never resented me for it,it wasnt painful and joked he deserved a beating at the time.

However,I have seen enraged parents hoisting a brat offf the ground by the wrist or clothing and hitting them repeatedly,while cursing through clenched teeth. Its an ugly scene and makes you reflect on yourself.
You also wonder at what point you should get involved,if its appropriate or if it will worsen it.

Could it be that talking was ineffective with me? I see you never had to deal with special needs people.

Well, I work with kids with diagnoses such as ADD, ADHD, Asperger and Damp, aswell as other social handicaps including, but not limited to, cognitive and concentration difficulties. I also have some years of experience with autistic children and adults with varying levels of the handicap. So no, I have delt with many people with special needs and do so on a daily basis.

Now, I don't mean to say that punishment isn't the way to go sometimes, do something bad and it will have consequenses, that's an important lesson for any child. However, I'm ever so certain that physical pain is not the way to go. There are more effective ways to get your message through, even to the most stubborn and respectless child. The trick, which ain't easy, is of course to get the respect as an adult and there are about as many ways to do this as there are children. However, do not confuse fear with respect, they are related in effect but vastly different in most aspects, as I'm sure you agree.



And you do not think that my parents did talk to me? My God, my mother hauled me down to the Juvi officer at the police station after a little vandelism I did at a retreat.


No doubt, if you say so, but that doesn't mean violence is the key. The crowbar maybe, but there are better ways to open doors, hypotheticly speaking.



Unfortunately, cops have no jurisdiction on discipline unless it is excessive. One swat on the butt is not abuse. I was never spanked more than once as a kid.

Oh, they have where I live. Sadly, very few cases of child abuse are reported, the dark numbers are thought to be very much higher. As for one spanking, well, I'm not sure even I would count that as child abuse, its regrettable for sure, but parents ain't perfect and one mistake isn't worth the damage of separating a family. Note that I don't think we should tear apart every family where the child got a slap on the hand once or so, but the children which are systematicly abused need protection from abusive parents. And last, for the record, I was slapped once by my mother aswell, and I deserved it. However, I think she was wrong to do it anyway, I barely remembered it until she reminded me of it a couple of years ago. A long talk surely would have stuck longer.

I have smacked each of them once,so far, in their lives- an open hand,across the backside,once.
I dont believe thats abuse by any means-it was necessary to make them aware that their beahavior at the moment was totally unacceptable-sometomes,they need to be brought out of their altered state.


Now, here's a tricky part...
I can actually see the use for a smack. Not a hard one to cause pain but more of a pinch and sound to remind the child of the situation. However, since the sensation of pain and the psykological aftermath of it varies greatly from person to person, a raised voice can most of the time have just as great effect. In dealing with children and young troublemakers, I found that the thing they have feared the most was my "serious talk between four eyes", where I dragged them into a private classroom and in a dead calm voice explain what is not acceptable, what is and what the consequences will be for misbehaving. No computergames for a week, or no afternoon coffee maybe. Math instead of fun and games seems to be enough to take the most obnoxious teen down a few pinholes :)

I was spanked as a child and now I'm gay. =[


Now now, remember that spanking is bad but being gay isn't. Why would you concider being gay something bad?

Now, here's a tricky part...
I can actually see the use for a smack. Not a hard one to cause pain but more of a pinch and sound to remind the child of the situation. However, since the sensation of pain and the psykological aftermath of it varies greatly from person to person, a raised voice can most of the time have just as great effect. In dealing with children and young troublemakers, I found that the thing they have feared the most was my "serious talk between four eyes", where I dragged them into a private classroom and in a dead calm voice explain what is not acceptable, what is and what the consequences will be for misbehaving. No computergames for a week, or no afternoon coffee maybe. Math instead of fun and games seems to be enough to take the most obnoxious teen down a few pinholes :)

You make a point there that I do remember-I may have been hit 3 times as a kid-all open handed backside smacks-But-I remember I much rather would have been hit and gotten it overwith than have my parents angry or stern about something I did or didnt do.
Non-spanking worked better with me-not that I was ever really bad.

And its the same with my children-for the most part,they are so well behaved,this isnt an issue at all. They've all had their moments though and the one smack did the trick at the time.
They seem to behave well because they are all wel adjusted to begin with and they seem to behave to please my wife and I as well as themselves.

I'm really glad this isnt really an issue in my house. I hope my children's children one day are as well beahved as mine. I do think the parent having an even temperment and predicatble responses helps them raise similar children.

You make a point there that I do remember-I may have been hit 3 times as a kid-all open handed backside smacks-But-I remember I much rather would have been hit and gotten it overwith than have my parents angry or stern about something I did or didnt do.
Non-spanking worked better with me-not that I was ever really bad.

And its the same with my children-for the most part,they are so well behaved,this isnt an issue at all. They've all had their moments though and the one smack did the trick at the time.
They seem to behave well because they are all wel adjusted to begin with and they seem to behave to please my wife and I as well as themselves.

I'm really glad this isnt really an issue in my house. I hope my children's children one day are as well beahved as mine. I do think the parent having an even temperment and predicatble responses helps them raise similar children.

Exactly, lessons learned through understanding the situation with logic is much easier to remember than lessons learned by painful punishment. Pain goes away quickly, the thought of doing something to hurt the ones who care for you tend to stay. Now, I'm not suggesting putting children through emotional trauma, that would be just as cruel as assaulting them, but making the kids see the consequenses of their actions is a part of a good upbringing. Put some extra weight on the issue with a allowance drop or no tv for the rest of the week can be pretty effective. And unless the child is very, very obnoxious and selfish, there are very few things a child can do that actually warrants real punishment, if you ask me. 30 years ago it was okay to beat a kid black and blue for coming home late, now most of us know that a punishment more fitting and more related to the situation would be perhaps not to allow the child to go out for a few days and then giving the trust back. To go out is a privilege that is underestimated until its taken away, and once its back, the child takes more care to keep the privilege. :)

A few days? What's their punishment for robbing a bank? One million dollars instead of two million dollars? Cupcake instead of entire wedding cake?

Come home late? Can't go outside unless necesary for a long, loooong time seems right. If the punishment is worse than the crime and outweighs the reward, it's not going to be commited as often as if the punishment was less than the reward. I support spanking. Call me Hitler, Satan, Stalin, Pol Pot, Micheal Jackson, etc. all you want but I support it. Children aren't as smart or logical as adults. Why? Obviously, a woman's assbone is too small to birth a kid with an adult-sized brain, so it's going to be growing for a while. A child is like a very primitive adult. Complex punishments wouldn't work much. A simple and consistent punishment, like an asswooping, works pretty well. After all, robbing a bank generally has the same punishment as rape: prison. Both have the same thing: inmate-on-inmate prison rape and guards that pretty much couldn't care less if Mr. Homocide gets an ass full of dick. You don't see each crime getting a unique punishment. You have prison, fines, reduced rights, and death. Compared to the number of possible crimes, that's very few punishments.

Miniskirts are required school uniform in most Catholic schools.
You may be thinking of "microskirts", which are the kinds that hookers wear.

There's really nothing hotter than a girl spreading her thighs though *smiles wishfully*

But having a girl show some ass cleavage isn't hot. It's gross.

So does this mean that spanking isn't sexual, because anal is gross?
Oh wait... That's right. That's an OPINION...

Just like the entire "article" on spanking.
Nay they hussy themselves up, they aren't meant to be miniskirts.
They are probably meant to wear them to the knee.
I know somearound here that have them to the ankles.
Shame really, well at least it was shame i don't dig school girls...

I was spanked as a child and now I'm gay. =[

That has nothing to do with the spanking.
You were born gay.
The fact that you were gay just made you like the spankings.
You were a naughty boy werent you?
Naughty naughty.
Cmere and bend over..
GET AWAY! Cripes! >_< I'm not gay!

*shoves you into his gay friend*
Adios!

A few days? What's their punishment for robbing a bank? One million dollars instead of two million dollars? Cupcake instead of entire wedding cake?

Come home late? Can't go outside unless necesary for a long, loooong time seems right. If the punishment is worse than the crime and outweighs the reward, it's not going to be commited as often as if the punishment was less than the reward. I support spanking. Call me Hitler, Satan, Stalin, Pol Pot, Micheal Jackson, etc. all you want but I support it. Children aren't as smart or logical as adults. Why? Obviously, a woman's assbone is too small to birth a kid with an adult-sized brain, so it's going to be growing for a while. A child is like a very primitive adult. Complex punishments wouldn't work much. A simple and consistent punishment, like an asswooping, works pretty well. After all, robbing a bank generally has the same punishment as rape: prison. Both have the same thing: inmate-on-inmate prison rape and guards that pretty much couldn't care less if Mr. Homocide gets an ass full of dick. You don't see each crime getting a unique punishment. You have prison, fines, reduced rights, and death. Compared to the number of possible crimes, that's very few punishments.

Yes! You are right! Our children are just criminal lunatics waiting to happen! Bring out the whips!

/Sarcasm.

Its lazy parenting, nothing else. And while you are correct in saying that children do not have the complex logical thinking that adults have, well, most adults. Lets beat mentaly challenged adults and people with an IQ lower than 80?
There are other ways, maybe you don't like them because it actually takes more time than inflicting physical pain on your child. A combination of leading by example, good values and simplified explanations of cause and effect and a mild punishment is extremly effective, given that you are actually willing to skip those 15 minutes of Survivor to talk to your child.

Yes! You are right! Our children are just criminal lunatics waiting to happen! Bring out the whips!

/Sarcasm.

Its lazy parenting, nothing else. And while you are correct in saying that children do not have the complex logical thinking that adults have, well, most adults. Lets beat mentaly challenged adults and people with an IQ lower than 80?
There are other ways, maybe you don't like them because it actually takes more time than inflicting physical pain on your child. A combination of leading by example, good values and simplified explanations of cause and effect and a mild punishment is extremly effective, given that you are actually willing to skip those 15 minutes of Survivor to talk to your child.
=( But I wanna beat mentally challenged adults... That sounds so fun!

=( But I wanna beat mentally challenged adults... That sounds so fun!

Well, I'm sure you can find some kids instead, there are plenty around and they are faster, providing more of a challenge!

"When a child is old enough to be told by adults to act modestly (which is not merely a social requirement, but also a wise precaution against potential child molesters)"

Actually historically, it is the shame felt in relation to what they believe
to have been immodesty and having been made aware of society's attitude
that has prevented children seeking help when they most need it.
I recall one specific instance where the abuser had taken photographs
of the young male victim naked and it was his threat that he would ensure
the victims school mates saw the pictures that kept the child in his hands
for another year.
There were also boys who were abused by priests who had also been
thought that sex was a sin and therefore felt as guilty at having been
abused as the perpetrators should have felt at abusing them.
Of course society has long blamed girls for anything that happens to them.
I recall one British judge pointing out that the nine year old victim of
an abuser was no little angel.


Aside from that one asinine point out of many, good parents who may
immodestly smack their children's bottoms, have also wiped those bottoms
clean, changed, dressed, undressed, washed, administered meds, mopped
up vomit, know their children's wants and needs better than any other living
person on the planet, they know the best and the worst of them and
love them more than they love their own lives.
If they then choose to smack bottoms as opposed to following someone
else's opinion of how to deal with a situation, they are probably right.

Are there other methods you can use to raise a child, yes there are.
Are they effective? They can be at least as effective.
Are they suitable for each and every parent and child? No more or less
than spanking.
Are they at root, effective because the adult has the power and the strength
to override the immediate wishes of the child, whether its a time out, withdrawal of treats, imposition of extra chores or schoolwork?
You betcha, just like spanking in fact.

Can spanking be overused or abused? Yes it can, in fact, just like anything else. When spankings become thrashings then that is certainly abuse, just
as when timeouts become being locked in your room for days at a time would be certainly abuse.
When not being allowed to go out and play with friends until you've done your homework becomes not being allowed to have friends at all, that is also abuse.

Spanking is unfashionable today and no doubt will continue to become
even more unfashionable but it is merely fashion there have been no
arguments against spankings that do not draw on many or all of the features
of any other form of parental control.

What happens when the child (or offender in general) is spanked with that giant purple double-headed dildo from Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas?

I was spanked as a child. It gave me a lifelong fear of my father, and a terror of asking for stuff or going out on a limb in any way. Result!

I was spanked as a child. It gave me a lifelong fear of my father, and a terror of asking for stuff or going out on a limb in any way. Result!

Were you spanked in an excessive, abusive way or just the kind, loveing way?

Were you spanked in an excessive, abusive way or just the kind, loveing way?

Probably excessive and abusive.

My spankings were never that way.

Probably excessive and abusive.

My spankings were never that way.


Probably, normal spanking usually does not leave such mental scars. The ammount of "physical correction" needed to create trauma varies greatly though... One persons mild spanking can be anothers reoccuring nightmare.
Still, aslong as we can't beat adults, I think it's crazy to beat kids...