NationStates Jolt Archive

Ok.......

Oh, and time warp.

1300th post!

Why aren't you jumping whole hog into the Vistaverse?

I already did. It's called OSX. ;)

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! I'm so happy Microsoft's hyped up garbage isn't worth getting. It's a complete rip from Mac. In other news, I hate IE7. I use it sometimes when sites won't open in Mozilla or when those news websites like to use complex video players. Yahoo is notorious for bad official video player. So anyway...anyone have Vista?

Link (http://tech.yahoo.com/blogs/null/18085)

Why Aren't You Upgrading to Vista?

Mon Feb 26, 2007 6:13PM EST

Daily Techno-Babble offers a breathless "three reasons why Windows Vista is sinking like a rock," and while the story has a point, I don't really think that "limits on how Vista can be used under virtualization" is really the thing about Vista that is scaring away that many would-be users, nor are Microsoft's DRM provisions on high-definition video much of a big deal yet, as few users care about high-def on their PC right now. Don't get me wrong: I think all of these are factors that make Vista a poor OS, but they aren't the primary reason that it's "sinking like a rock."

Given that Vista sales seem lackluster at best, what's the hang-up? I think it's something far more simple than the reasons that DTB offers up.

So what's turning people off of Vista? Here's my take, in order of importance:

1) Price. There's no way around this one. Upgrading to Vista doesn't just mean spending up to $400 on software, but also cash on RAM and video card upgrades, or buying a new PC altogether. If Vista was a $100 upgrade that anyone could use, it'd be a top seller, I'm sure.

2) Nothing new to see here. Love the visual style, but does photo tagging and 3-D window flipping really merit an upgrade?

3) It's annoying. I don't know any Vista user who hasn't turned off User Account Control, which nags you with an "Are you sure????" prompt every time you try to do anything beyond run the calculator. Yet UAC is the linchpin of Vista's vaunted new security system. Without it, it's really no different than XP.

4) Tons of stuff is incompatible with Vista. An acquaintance of mine got a new PC with Vista preinstalled. Neither her scanner nor her printer had Vista drivers ready. Both peripherals cost several hundred bucks, and now they're essentially paperweights (though the printer, at some unforseeable time in the future, may work again). Lots of software won't run on Vista, either, but it's the hardware incompatibilities that are daunting. (Update: Looks like the scanner driver's finally ready.)

5) It's confusing. Everything that XP could do, Vista can do... only it's buried under a different menu and it has a new name. While average users probably never use many of these settings, power users have found themselves starting from scratch to relearn Windows.

6) It's busted. Try connecting to a printer on your network that's hooked up to an XP machine. Or try downloading a file with a third-party application and then accessing it via another PC on the network. I won't go into a list of the endless bugs and flaws with the design of Vista, because I don't really have to: Vista needs a Service Pack already.

That's my take, but I'd love to hear your reasons for being hesitant: Why aren't you jumping whole hog into the Vistaverse?

Damn! I forgot to put multioption. :(

Blame it on Vista. *nods*

Damn! I forgot to put multioption. :(

I attended a recent "Ready for a New Day!" launch event, touting all the wonders of Office 2007 and Vista. Best comment of the day ...Vista? It's Windows ME 2.0.Pretty much sums it up.

I still use Win2K. :p

I attended a recent "Ready for a New Day!" launch event, touting all the wonders of Office 2007 and Vista. Best comment of the day ...Vista? It's Windows ME 2.0.Pretty much sums it up.

Oooh. That's got to leave a mark. I don't know dick about computers, but I know that OS blew donkey dong all to hell.

I use Firefox and IE...

There's no difference in performance...at all.

I've used macs and own a pc...

The mac ran like a piece of shit and crashed all the time while I was trying to program in C++. Eventually I dropped that class because they ran so badly.

I see no reason to upgrade from XP

The only reason to use Vista is DirectX 10, I really hope Microsoft lets us XP users upgrade to DX10 in the future. :(

My dad installed Vista onto my computer. The problem is that Vista doesn't support the driver for my graphics card so now I can't play any more games on it.

I don't feel the need to upgrade from XP to Vista.

Who here actually bought their installed version. Lol.

I don't know about mine, but it seems each time the OS has heavy HDD activity, whatever is playing (ie, music or a video) stops until the hard drive is idle. ANNOYING F*CK as I always listen to music during all activity. The new interface is nice but a challenge if you don't know what you're doing. I don't see how they expect so many to find this as "easy" as they claim.

I have a good hardware configuration, but it still seems to me like it's a but sluggish, like there's something holding its performance back. Much unlike XP or 2k where it was a quick pull to a window or interface.

Nice features, but a bad under the hood design, imo. Not worth it without WinFS or at least any other type of file system optimizer. It'd be XP SP3. Glad I made a separate partition for it.

I have XP on my computers that need windows, and Linux on everything else, I don't feel the need to spend the time, money, headache etc. on a new version of microsuck until I have to, which I hope that I never do, everyday something I need is becoming available on Linux, and I hope the trend continues.

I have everything running the way I like it now; why would I waste months getting Vista to run the way I want it to?

Good, I'm glad I'm not missing much with Vista; I'm happy with XP SP2 and IE7.

Aside: Can't say I'm all that impressed with FF though; I tried it after seeing the n^45th rave about it, but it had a horrendous memory leak that made my system progressively slower the longer I had it open. Now IE7 has tabbing I'm not really fussed about changing at this point.

I still use Win2K. :p

I did and still would if DirectX10 wasn't Vista only. Luckily, my copy Vista was free (MSDNAA, not piracy). My main problem with it is that when you want to change something, you have to hack through pages of user friendliness with a chainsaw and a machete first. Well, not really, you just have to know where to click, but that sounded more dramatic. Shame that some newer games aren't running under Win2K or I would still be there. Another problem is that under Win2K, my 3Dmark05 score was about 6% higher, but this may be because nVidia has been lazy about getting proper Vista drivers out.

Vista doesn't support my Virtual CD program, CDSpace, which I used to avoid CD swapping. Also, the "search" function only searches indexed files & folders unless you specifically tell it to check your entire computer. I also don't like how it decides it should place your icons an inch away from each other by default. It took days to figure out how to fix this thanks to that damned user friendly interface hiding advanced settings. (For other who want to fix this: Personalize->Window Color and Appearance->Open Classic ... ->Advanced->Icon Spacing). Also, user account control doesn't seem to do anything but be bothersome.

On the plus side, the winkey + tab function is useful when you have a lot of windows open. I rarely use alt-tab anymore. Also, all my open source software seems to work fine. Now that I've got used to Vista it's alright,

For my final remark, I'm going to go ahead and call all of you who say Vista is a ripoff of OSX Apple fanboys.

It's a complete rip from Mac.

Yeah, if you ignore the fact that Mac is just FreeBSD and Vista still has compatibility with stuff you want to use. And still works with non-proprietary hardware.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! I'm so happy Microsoft's hyped up garbage isn't worth getting. It's a complete rip from Mac. In other news, I hate IE7. I use it sometimes when sites won't open in Mozilla or when those news websites like to use complex video players. Yahoo is notorious for bad official video player. So anyway...anyone have Vista?

Link (http://tech.yahoo.com/blogs/null/18085)

meh, i use mozilla, opera and IE7 for browsing different things on the net, and often just for whichever one takes my fancy. i've also tried using linux on my (old dell) machine but went back to XP... and there's the problem with Vista for me: XP is too good. if it ain't broke don't fix it, and XP ain't broke as far as i'm concerned. upgrading from 98 to XP was essential cos '98 was comparitively a piece of shit, but now there's little reason to upgrade unless i happen to want to spend several hundered pounds on something i don't need and will probably cause irritation if not actual problems for me...

I run vista X64 (ultimate, using the OEM version as it is cheaper) as primary OS on my desktop, it dual boots with x64 (xp) and Xp Sp2 pro. I find vista runs fine yeah a few driver issues but i expected that.

I also run OSX 10 on my macbook and i do not see how vista is a pure ripoff, it has some similar features but if it didn't take what was best from everywhere else it wouldn't be from the biggest OS company, the way to stay on top and have a customer base for your products is to offer them everything.

As for performance on vista, no lag, no sound issues and games well.

Spec of rig is:
AMD X2 4600+ (2.7ghz on OC)
3Gb Dual channel pc3200 ram.
7800Gs 512Mb Silent edition (Gainward).
X-fi fatality gamer.
2*250Gb Sata2.
18* Dvd RW (sony).

With this kit vista runs a charm and has handy features, like drag and drop Dvd burning.

http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/vista_cost.html

^^^ it's long, and full of techno-would-be-babble-if-it-weren't-actual-terms, but so long as you don't plan on bugging the guy about it being in error or what have you, just skimming it should be enough.

i didn't really like vista much in the first place. this is the final straw.

add to that: provided i can get Ubuntu to work Properly, vista is the reason I'm giving up on windows :) i may have to pay extra because the hardware has to be compatible, but I'm not going to reward Microsoft for such stupidity unless i have to.

I've been using Firefox for ages.. frankly, i find it superior to Internet Exploder in every way.. weither it actually is or not is a whole other story, but i only use IE to access Microsoft's site when i need to make their infernal 'wishes it deserved to be software' work.

normally i'm pretty calm about this kind of thing and dislike fanboyisem of all sorts... in this case, i make an exception. Microsoft has a definite anti-fan in me.

[well, i LIKE office 97... which I'm told is pretty crazy. but other than that...heh.]

I attended a recent "Ready for a New Day!" launch event, touting all the wonders of Office 2007 and Vista. Best comment of the day ...Vista? It's Windows ME 2.0.Pretty much sums it up.

:D Thats good...very good indeed...

I still use Win2K. :p

Same here...best MS Os by a long shot.

I don't feel the need to upgrade from XP to Vista.

I have heard that the upgrade leads to big problems...less so if you do a clean install...

Me...I am not going to use Vista. Not even after the release of the service packs. The same goes for any companies I work for...if I have the decision to make.

I run vista X64 (ultimate, using the OEM version as it is cheaper) as primary OS on my desktop, it dual boots with x64 (xp) and Xp Sp2 pro. I find vista runs fine yeah a few driver issues but i expected that.

I also run OSX 10 on my macbook and i do not see how vista is a pure ripoff, it has some similar features but if it didn't take what was best from everywhere else it wouldn't be from the biggest OS company, the way to stay on top and have a customer base for your products is to offer them everything.

As for performance on vista, no lag, no sound issues and games well.

Spec of rig is:
AMD X2 4600+ (2.7ghz on OC)
3Gb Dual channel pc3200 ram.
7800Gs 512Mb Silent edition (Gainward).
X-fi fatality gamer.
2*250Gb Sata2.
18* Dvd RW (sony).

With this kit vista runs a charm and has handy features, like drag and drop Dvd burning.

Nice kit...which you will never see in a large office environment....

I played with the beta, and I thougt Vista was pretty and responsive. If I could use the Aero shell on XP I probably would.

But it's not pretty and responsive enough to justify the cost, let alone the DRM bollocks, the restrictive OEM licence, the reduced performance in games (despite feeling faster in the shell. Funny, that.), the lower compatibility with software (says the XP x64 user :rolleyes: ), etc.
Frankly, if it weren't for Crossfire I'd probably still be using Win2K.

The only reason to use Vista is DirectX 10, I really hope Microsoft lets us XP users upgrade to DX10 in the future. :(

Don't worry, they won't.
Vista is slower than XP, fewer games work with it, it's expensive... Why would gamers "upgrade" to it? Because they can't see the prettiest pictures otherwise! DX10 really is the only reason for Vista, and gamers make up enough of the Windows market that it's worth... Persuading... them to follow suit.

Vista makes me wish I could use Linux :s

The only reason to use Vista is DirectX 10, I really hope Microsoft lets us XP users upgrade to DX10 in the future. :(

That is the funniest thing of all; The movie/game head honchos got pissed off at microsoft making most of their products not being able to use DirectX 10 on XP games so they forced Microsoft to release an upgrade for Windows XP.

Meet DirectX 9.L . It is DirectX 10 but on the XP!

http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=35110

Well, that stops even more people switching to Vista.

It is about 3-5 years early for mass adoption by moderate level tech computers.

When I upgrade my comp (2-4 years) I might get a linux OS.

Meet DirectX 9.L . It is DirectX 10 but on the XP!

http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=35110

Article's out-of-date; DX9L is Vista's DirectX 9 compatibility thingy. Sorry.
http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=35140

And...
Direct3D 9Ex (previously known as 9.0L): allows full access to the new capabilities of WDDM while maintaining compatibility for existing Direct3D applications by putting it in a seperate API. The transparency ("Glass") effects in Windows Aero rely on the D3D 9Ex code path. When 9Ex was still codenamed 9.0L, there were rumors that this would be Direct3D 10 for Windows XP.[3] It was quickly pointed out that this was not the case, mainly due to lack of support for WDDM in Windows XP.[4]

My father had to install Vista on a computer at his office because they need to test software on it. He told me that it only recognises one of the printers in the office. They are having trouble getting the computer to talk to the network there. He says that it hard to just get it to do what they want it to in general. As far he can tell, it doesn't give you anything really new that you didn't have with XP that makes it really special and necessary to have.

I needed to get a new computer because my old one was overheating on regular basis and the HD was making the same noises that the previous HD did about a month before it kicked the bucket. He told me to avoid Vista for at least a year or until the next service pack comes out. It isn't easy to find something that doesn't have Vista on it, but I found something good with XP. XP works pretty well, as someone said already, why fix what isn't broken?

Article's out-of-date; DX9L is Vista's DirectX 9 compatibility thingy. Sorry.
http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=35140


Ah dammit!

Oh well, I'm still not getting vista.

OpenGL ftw.

Going to put Vista Ultimate on my Dual-core Opteron 165 system later! (Yes it's a desktop - but with a server processor)
At the moment, I'll use Windows XP Home SP2 for now. Waiting for ZoneLabs to release a Vista-compatible version of their products.

My laptop is ready for Vista too, but not yet. SP2 is fine on it.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! I'm so happy Microsoft's hyped up garbage isn't worth getting. It's a complete rip from Mac. In other news, I hate IE7. I use it sometimes when sites won't open in Mozilla or when those news websites like to use complex video players. Yahoo is notorious for bad official video player. So anyway...anyone have Vista?

Link (http://tech.yahoo.com/blogs/null/18085)
IE7 works fine. It's like Mozilla, but with a slightly different icon and a few functions less - it's perfectly excellent if you're just bumbling about on the interweb.

Going to put Vista Ultimate on my Dual-core Opteron 165 system later! (Yes it's a desktop - but with a server processor)
At the moment, I'll use Windows XP Home SP2 for now. Waiting for ZoneLabs to release a Vista-compatible version of their products.

My laptop is ready for Vista too, but not yet. SP2 is fine on it.

...a desktop with a server processor?! What the hell are you going to do with that kind of power? Run Supreme Commander four times at once on the thing?!

As for me, I'm more than happy with XP. No games have been showing up for Vista yet as far as I know and until a whole bunch of different games I really want to play show up for Vista I won't even consider it.

...a desktop with a server processor?! What the hell are you going to do with that kind of power? Run Supreme Commander four times at once on the thing?!

Server processors aren't necessarily faster than their desktop equivalents, just (allegedly) more reliable. Lots of people use Opterons because they're very similar (if not the same as) Athlon X2s, but cheaper (lower clockspeed) and overclock better.

Server processors aren't necessarily faster than their desktop equivalents, just (allegedly) more reliable. Lots of people use Opterons because they're very similar (if not the same as) Athlon X2s, but cheaper (lower clockspeed) and overclock better.

Really?

...well...now I feel like an idiot. A supremely huge idiot I should add.

Vista is slower than XP, fewer games work with it,
That couldn't possibly be because it just released :rolleyes:

it's expensive...
Not that expensive. only as expensive as anything else if you use the OEM versions from Newegg.

That couldn't possibly be because it just released :rolleyes:

There are old Windows (9x) games that don't work with XP, there will be old Windows games that don't work with Vista. It also doesn't have a 16-bit subsystem (similarly to XPx64), so that doesn't help; some 32-bit software has 16-bit installers, and if they're not replaced at runtime, no go. Installers can be quite a pain, in fact; some of them look at the OS version, and if it's not something they're expecting they refuse to install.

Not that expensive. only as expensive as anything else if you use the OEM versions from Newegg.
1) The OEM versions are licenced to your motherboard. Change that and you need a new copy. Not a problem? Well, this machine is on its second mainboard since it started using XPx64, less than a year ago. My other machine has had at least three boards in it since it was built in 1999.

2) Newegg doesn't ship to the UK, as far as I know. From ebuyer, Vista Home Premium OEM is £71, Upgrade is £124 and Retail is £187 (US$139, $243 and $367, respectively). XP Home OEM is £58 ($114), and includes a Vista upgrade coupon anyway. The Linux distro of your choice is the price of a DVD-R. Why would I choose Vista?

...a desktop with a server processor?! What the hell are you going to do with that kind of power? Run Supreme Commander four times at once on the thing?!

I had a AMD Athlon64 3200+ but it's only single core. Attempting to get any AMD Athlon64 X2 for Socket 939 is near impossible so I had to settle for a Opteron 165 which is like an Athlon64 X2 3800+. Now I am ready to run Vista! It's got a 1Mb L2 Cache vs the 512Mb used by the Athlon64 X2. Oh, the cooling heat sink is lot bigger and better! Planning to OC from 1.8Ghz to 2.5Ghz but I have to get some good OC-able RAM first.

System spec!

Sunbeam Samurai gaming case
AMD Opteron 165 Dual Core @1.8 Ghz
Foxconn NF4K8MC-RS Socket 939, 1Gb PC3200 RAM
XFX nVidia 7600GT 256Mb Extreme Edition
160Gb Hitachi SATA HDD, Lite-on SHM-165P6S DL DVD burner
Seasonic 550W S12 Energy+
Windows XP Home SP2 with ZA Suite 6.1.744.001

Not server as you can see.