NationStates Jolt Archive

I've been wondering (for reasons I won't bore you with) about this for a while. The negative aspects of children are many, varied and obvious... But still people breed. I'm pretty certain that some of them do so deliberately, after considering their situation, so kids must have some good points. Right?

So I ask you, NSG: What are the positive aspects of having children?

I'll add a token poll to the thread to lure people in...

After a few years you have someone to do crap like take out the garbage and mow the lawn. Plus you can laugh at their stupid taste in music and clothing as they get older.

But is it really worth the expense of getting them to that point? Wouldn't a handyman be cheaper in the long run?
Laughing at their taste is valid, though ;)

In ten years, I'll have someone around the house who understands those dadgum newfangled neural interface computers. :p

After a few years you have someone to do crap like take out the garbage and mow the lawn. Plus you can laugh at their stupid taste in music and clothing as they get older.

I'm a 21 year old college student.

I've got a tough enough time cogitating marriage right now, let alone kids.

Hell my life is beer, studies, beer, studies, work.

Well, some of your genetic material gets passed down through time, which is about as close to immortality as we humans can get right now. And they can be very cute. Not to mention, once they reach a certain age, you can pass along chores like doing dishes and cutting the lawn, while you and the wife sit back with an adult beverage. And then, in the fullness of time, when you become senile and doddering, you go live with them and become a burden, just as they semed to be when you were changing their diapers.

Meatshield if someone tries to shoot you?

I'm a 21 year old college student.

I've got a tough enough time cogitating marriage right now, let alone kids.

Hell my life is beer, studies, beer, studies, work.

Heh ;)
I'm convinced marriage is a bad idea, kids or no.

Are there compelling reasons to want to end a beer/computer games-based lifestyle and replace it with one of expense and responsibility?

And would anybody notice if I became doddering and senile?

And would anybody notice if I became doddering and senile?

I dunno, has anyone noticed so far?

a combination of biology and because children make parents happy for one reason or another. (at least i think i make my parents happy/proud).

and i find kids increadibly cool but i don't think i'll want any, although that will also depend on my wife if i'll have any. this is because i'd like to have a busy life, if everything goes according to plan i will spend a lot of time abroad and the time i'm back home i'd like to spend doing fun stuff, and not getting up at 3 am because my baby is crying again. kids also cost a lot of money and they are a very big responsibility (probably one of the few things i would really mind screwing up).
but who's life turned out like they thought it would when they were 19? maybe i do meet a nice girl and biology turns out to be to strong for me.

oh and if you have kids you're old.

I've been wondering (for reasons I won't bore you with) about this for a while. The negative aspects of children are many, varied and obvious... But still people breed. I'm pretty certain that some of them do so deliberately, after considering their situation, so kids must have some good points. Right?

So I ask you, NSG: What are the positive aspects of having children?

I'll add a token poll to the thread to lure people in...

If you're going to do anything about the future, you have to do it through influencing children. Adults never change their minds.

You can either become a teacher, or you can raise your own kids.

Well you can smile at the knowledge that in the future your children will suffer through all the same crap they put you through when their turn comes around.

The master race has to start somewhere...

I dunno, has anyone noticed so far?

Not yet <_< >_>

If you're going to do anything about the future, you have to do it through influencing children. Adults never change their minds.

You can either become a teacher, or you can raise your own kids.

That is a compelling argument.

[QUOTE=Compulsive Depression;12385935]Not yet <_< >_>

Your children will :)

if you raise them properly, they’re interesting, they’re amusing, they’re nice, and have the ability to contribute to society.

and, of course, more people like me are desperately needed, so short of kidnapping people and brainwashing them, which is really more hassle than it’s worth, training someone from birth is much easier. ;)

practically speaking, they also add to the tax base to help ensure care is available for the old people who have noone to care for them.

on the down side, they are very expensive, and eat a lot of food. they’re very high maintenance for the first 18 years or so.

That is a compelling argument.

It's fun to see them grow up and get minds of their own. Sure, you have some influence, but they really can impress you as they get older.

Kids are fascinating, they look at the world in a way that most of us don't even dare to. Other than that it's very cool to watch them learn, and grow, and figure stuff out.........and if you have kids you have excuses to go play on the park equipment, to wear your feather boa and floppy hat to lunch, to play with toys, and to see the kids movies.

Kids are someone to plug you out when you get sick of life.

.........and if you have kids you have excuses to go play on the park equipment, to wear your feather boa and floppy hat to lunch, to play with toys, and to see the kids movies.
Who needs excuses? (http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/grownups.png)

*looks at poll*
*sees last opiton*
HEY! :mad: *slaps Compulsive Depression*

kids are cool but i very much doubt i could deal with having my own for a good decade or so yet. especially considering i'll probably be living in a van for the next 5 years at least. the best thing about kids is getting to behave like a kid again when you play with them - i think i must have a secret reservoir of energy and enthusiasm which only gets tapped when i can build sandcastles and throw mud and play frisbee and play cowboys and indians and build forts and space-ships. shit i wish i was a kid again, being an adult sucks, and to think i spent most of my childhood wishing i was an adult and being all bookish cuz i thought i was being mature. way to waste a childhood :rolleyes:

I've been wondering (for reasons I won't bore you with) about this for a while. The negative aspects of children are many, varied and obvious... But still people breed. I'm pretty certain that some of them do so deliberately, after considering their situation, so kids must have some good points. Right?

So I ask you, NSG: What are the positive aspects of having children?

I'll add a token poll to the thread to lure people in...

If I could have afforded them, I would have had about nine or ten. My ex and I made good looking, smart, hard-working, compassionate children. The world needs more like them. :p

If I could have afforded them, I would have had about nine or ten. My ex and I made good looking, smart, hard-working, compassionate children. The world needs more like them. :p

Modest, aren't we? :p

I hate that the West is choosing to not have babies. I plan to have at least 3 kids and adopt at least 2 more. :D

If one has kids how will the person ever be able to relax again? It will be constant noise and demands for years and years...

Personally, I hate children and everything about them, so that may well colour my opinion.

But here goes: Raising children means endless hassle, expense, and inconvenience. The little buggers take over your lives and make sure that you devote said lives only to them; you lose any semblace of a former free life once you start to raise them. Between the ages of four and about fifteen children are incredibly cruel, to you and to each other, and this could be painful if you're that type, or just annoying if you're not. Between ten and eighteen they hate you, anyway.

This is all speaking from my experience as a child, not as a parent. Considering how I acted over my past 17+ years, I'm surprised my parents didn't donate me to an orphanage, and I'm surprised that most parents don't do the same to their kids when I see how those kids behave. Of course, maybe once you actually have kids there's something that keeps you taking care of them, but I can't see any good reason to.

If you really want to pass on your genetic stock, just donate to a sperm or egg bank. If you really want to influence the future, become a teacher or some other position of authority over kids. Both are easier than actually raising them.

i want kids one day. i don't know why, its just a feeling.

i want kids one day. i don't know why, its just a feeling.

Parental instinct?

I don't have kids, but my nephew has just turned one & I love spending time with him. In fact, we're babysitting him tonight.

Potential blood and organ donors?

If I can't become a cyborg by the time I'm 60 or 70 I might need someone else to get them from...and those kids should be pretty good for them, provided my wife is O-negative.

and if you have kids you have excuses to go play on the park equipment, to wear your feather boa and floppy hat to lunch, to play with toys, and to see the kids movies.

Um... I do that anyway (apart from the hat and boa. I don't have either.)... Of course, I make sure I have a responsible adult supervising me ;)

I found a shop that sells that magnetic building stuff (relatively) cheaply. It's great! I need lots now. And I haven't eaten any of the ball-bearings :)

*looks at poll*
*sees last opiton*
HEY! :mad: *slaps Compulsive Depression*

Hehehe :D
I've been waiting to use that poll option for ages ;)

I hate children, but I must admit that the thought of having a maturing mind under my control is somewhat intriguing, but that's probably because I've spent too much time reading about political socialization and child psychology of late.

I hate that the West is choosing to not have babies. I plan to have at least 3 kids and adopt at least 2 more. :D

Well, there are lots of downsides. Czardas et al have pointed out a few, and I could add more if I wanted. But if nothing else, there are 6.5 billion people already: Do we really need any more cluttering the place up and eating stuff? Especially if you live in a crowded country like Britain...

This is all speaking from my experience as a child, not as a parent. Considering how I acted over my past 17+ years, I'm surprised my parents didn't donate me to an orphanage, and I'm surprised that most parents don't do the same to their kids when I see how those kids behave.

Once upon a time my father answered the door to a collector for Barnado's. Did he have anything to donate? she asked. "Hold on a tick"... He wanders off, then comes back, pushes my sister and I towards her, says "Here you go" and closes the door behind us.
She was... Surprised at his generosity ;)

Edit:
I hate children, but I must admit that the thought of having a maturing mind under my control is somewhat intriguing, but that's probably because I've spent too much time reading about political socialization and child psychology of late.
It does sound interesting, doesn't it? But then you start thinking of the possibilities for abuse, and start giggling like a loon... Would it be possible to avoid the temptation?

Parental instinct?

-snip-
If you really want to pass on your genetic stock, just donate to a sperm or egg bank. If you really want to influence the future, become a teacher or some other position of authority over kids. Both are easier than actually raising them.

the way i see it, its not so much a logical/rational thing as an instinct, yeah. but the cognitive side of it in me simply says that there's little more valuable or worthwhile i can do with my life than bring another life into this world as well as i can. i've pretty much always thought this way

It's a mixed bag.

My adult daughter lives with me (for the time being). It's not been a positive experience for me, over all. When she gets her own place (please, God, soon) I expect it will become positive.

My adult son lives 70 miles from me. He invites me to sporting events, dinner, etc. He helped me move, actually organized it. He's generally helpful and supportive.

The big problem is that the two are so damned competetive.

Kids are good, but I never want any. Kids, on their own, are amazing in their capacity to learn (which they then never exploit), and their capacity to do good, if they are raised right.

I just don't trust myself to raise children correctly. I'd probably raise fucked up trailer trash or something. I just have neither the personality nor the energy to raise kids.

Of course if I end up with a significant other, and they feel differently, I may change my mind, but not until I feel I'm actually mature.

So kids are a bit like chocolate? You know they're bad for you, but you want them anyway?

That and getting to be the first to warp their fragile little minds, of course. And getting to use them as pre-pay gardeners/removal men.

I can see that; all the practical considerations make them sound like a really bad idea. But people deliberately have them anyway, so instinct and less concrete reasons must be it, so they pretty much come down to "if you want them, have them". Hmm.

One important consideration; looking at Eut's list makes me think the world doesn't want me breeding ;)

Ugh, kids.

I'm a 21 year old college student.

I've got a tough enough time cogitating marriage right now, let alone kids.

Hell my life is beer, studies, beer, studies, work.

You're not a real student dude....nowhere near enough beer ;)

Ugh, kids.

Until quite recently that was my thoughts on the matter, too.
But I'm wary about going and getting a vasectomy.
Why is that?

Until quite recently that was my thoughts on the matter, too.
But I'm wary about going and getting a vasectomy.
Why is that?

You're weird? ;)

But people deliberately have them anyway, so instinct and less concrete reasons must be it, so they pretty much come down to "if you want them, have them". Hmm.coughAccidentscough

But I'm wary about going and getting a vasectomy.
Why is that?You don't want sharp objects near there?

I've been wondering (for reasons I won't bore you with) about this for a while. The negative aspects of children are many, varied and obvious... But still people breed. I'm pretty certain that some of them do so deliberately, after considering their situation, so kids must have some good points. Right?

So I ask you, NSG: What are the positive aspects of having children?

I'll add a token poll to the thread to lure people in...

Carrying on your genetic heritage? They are funny? Family means much more than most other things in life? Some people have done all the shit and they wanna settle down now?

So kids are a bit like chocolate? You know they're bad for you, but you want them anyway?

That and getting to be the first to warp their fragile little minds, of course. And getting to use them as pre-pay gardeners/removal men.

I can see that; all the practical considerations make them sound like a really bad idea. But people deliberately have them anyway, so instinct and less concrete reasons must be it, so they pretty much come down to "if you want them, have them". Hmm.

One important consideration; looking at Eut's list makes me think the world doesn't want me breeding ;)

you know that stupid thing that teenaged baby-mad girls say? "i want a baby because then i will have someone who loves me?"

well of course your children love you. but the real upside is that YOU have someone to love. when you have kids, especially babies, you love them so intensely and so completely that they OWN you. you would do anything for them. the late night feedings, the carrying them around when they cry for an hour every night with the colic, its stressful but nothing compared to your feelings for them. (it is the most stressful thing you will do until you are the guy who might have to launch the missles to start the next world war) everything they do is so fascinating that it bores your non-parent friends to tears to hear you talk about them. "little johnny turned over by himself today!" when the little bugger takes his first step, its as exciting as the day you graduated highschool, probably more exciting.

being a good parents removes your innate selfishness. even if you are married and committed, its not the same as your commitment to your children. i mean, you wont get up in the middle of the night after 4 hours of sleep to make your wife a sandwich but youll get up to feed that baby. if you need to take a second job to make sure your child has what she needs for school, youll do it. if you need to cut down on your expenses--no new car, no fancy vacations, no membership at the country club--because you have decided that your wife should stay home to raise the children, thats just the cost of doing right by your kids. what you want is no longer your first priority. its so important to you that sometimes your friends and family have to remind you that you NEED some time for yourself (to be a better parent, thats the only thing that will convince you)

someone above me said when you have kids youre OLD. kids keep you young. sure you have to be an adult. you cant act like a teenager any more without a care in the world. BUT when you have kids, you have to do kid things. you run around after them, you dance to barney videos, you go to the park, to the zoo, for walks around the neighborhood. you sing songs and make up silly rhymes, you notice the cool (or gross) things of the world. suddenly you have to have an answer for every possible question from "where did we come from?" to "where did that dog poop come from?"

you are the most important person in your child's life. if you were raised in a loving home, you recreate that loving atmosphere in your own home. if you were raised by assholes, you in some way undo that damage to yourself by raising your kids better. when things are going right, and your little girl cuddles up with you on the couch and says "i love you daddy" no going-out-in-the-evening-with-the-guys can compare to it.

You're weird? ;)
I can't think of any defence against that accusation that would stand up in court...

coughAccidentscough

Yeah, but when accidents happen people often wind up happy later on. Unless they're just resigned?
I also have a suspicion that quite a lot of "accidents" aren't.
And some are deliberate. They even provide IVF on the NHS!

You don't want sharp objects near there?
I've survived inexpert teeth, I'm sure I'd survive an expert scalpel ;)

Carrying on your genetic heritage? They are funny? Family means much more than most other things in life? Some people have done all the shit and they wanna settle down now?

Cousins on both sides of my family have bred - a significant proportion of genetic material the same as mine will be passed on, but I didn't have to change nappies to do it ;)
Yeah, they can be funny.
I'm not sure about family meaning more. Many people would say their partner means more to them than anyone, I'm sure, but they're not (often) family.
But wouldn't it be better to settle down in peace and quiet, if that's what you want? And safe in the knowledge that if you want to uproot yourself later you can do so?

Until quite recently that was my thoughts on the matter, too.
But I'm wary about going and getting a vasectomy.
Why is that?

how old are you?

perhaps its because you might end up with a woman who desperately wants children?

how old are you?

perhaps its because you might end up with a woman who desperately wants children?

25.

Possibly... I've got a girlfriend (she's 28), and she doesn't want children at the moment (and it would be impossibly impractical currently, anyway), but I don't think she's certain about the future. I think I'd find a woman who desperately wants children quite disconcerting, actually.

Thanks for your long reply, I'm just reading it properly.

SNIP for brevity
It sounds terrifying... Really terrifying.

The unconditional love does seem... Strange. My parents were good, I generally like them, we get on well, and we were treated well as kids. We didn't need anything, and got about as much of what we wanted as could be given to us without spoiling us. But I couldn't honestly say I loved them - or them me. Of course, that may have been different twenty years ago. I can't remember how I felt then.
But even if I wound up loving a child (and it loving me), would that be good? Or would it just increase the overbearing responsibility?

I would enjoy the answering questions a lot, I think. It would be nice to be able to give a kid decent, honest answers to its questions, and you'd probably learn a lot finding out the answers yourself. (My girlfriend has a young cousin and she's wary of me meeting her in case the kid asks me any questions; she knows I'd tell her the truth, with all the gory details ;) )

Thank you for that post, Ashmoria. It's something to think about...

It sounds terrifying... Really terrifying.

The unconditional love does seem... Strange. My parents were good, I generally like them, we get on well, and we were treated well as kids. We didn't need anything, and got about as much of what we wanted as could be given to us without spoiling us. But I couldn't honestly say I loved them - or them me. Of course, that may have been different twenty years ago. I can't remember how I felt then.
But even if I wound up loving a child (and it loving me), would that be good? Or would it just increase the overbearing responsibility?

I would enjoy the answering questions a lot, I think. It would be nice to be able to give a kid decent, honest answers to its questions, and you'd probably learn a lot finding out the answers yourself. (My girlfriend has a young cousin and she's wary of me meeting her in case the kid asks me any questions; she knows I'd tell her the truth, with all the gory details ;) )

Thank you for that post, Ashmoria. It's something to think about...

yeah the trouble with the whole thing is that you dont know until you have taken on the responsibility of having kids. its not like a career or a house that you can just move on from eh?

yeah the trouble with the whole thing is that you dont know until you have taken on the responsibility of having kids. its not like a career or a house that you can just move on from eh?

Yeah, exactly... Once you've got them you're stuck with them, like it or not.

Modest, aren't we? :p

Where my children are concerned? Not one bit! :D

You mean there are advantages?
The only one I can think of is raising them to be intelligent, courteous and generally quite pleasant people to be around with. We need more people like that.

Ilaer

Yeah, exactly... Once you've got them you're stuck with them, like it or not.

Which makes it vitally important to go into parenthood with your eyes wide open. Discovering that you don't like children after you've already had one ( or more ) is the source of much unhappiness for both parents and children. It's not fair to bring a new person into the world and then decide you made a mistake. They didn't ask to be here ... you brought them here. To love them less than totally is, IMHO, a tragedy of monumental proportions. And it's just as bad to try and paper over your "mistake" by showering them with material things in lieu of affection and love, perhaps even worse.

You mean there are advantages?
The only one I can think of is raising them to be intelligent, courteous and generally quite pleasant people to be around with. We need more people like that.

Ilaer

There are far more advantages than a non-parent might suppose: in later life, if you fall on hard times, your children can be a very real help; raising children properly helps offset all the bad in the world.

And ... when you come home from work feeling as though the weight of the world is resting squarely on you, and that little person's face lights up at the mere sight of you, runs to you and jumps on you and says, "Daddy! Daddy! I love you, Daddy!" ... well, there truly is no feeling like it in all the world. A child's love is total and unconditional and very easy to return. :)

I believe this is why the bible included the statement that "you must be born again." It's not as some would have us believe, that it's some sort of uber-spiritual experience; it's simply relearning what we knew instinctively as children ... how to love.

right now, i don't like the idea. but in a distant future, when im over all the pain my cousins caused me when i babysitted them, maybe ill get some

it was fun and happy while it lasted, while they behaved and cared for you...

Which makes it vitally important to go into parenthood with your eyes wide open. Discovering that you don't like children after you've already had one ( or more ) is the source of much unhappiness for both parents and children.

Aye, and that's partly why I made the thread. Better to make informed decisions either way.