NationStates Jolt Archive

This seems so easy, with great benefits relative to its cost. Why isnt every country doing this?


Australia pulls plug on old bulbs

Australia has announced plans to ban incandescent light bulbs and replace them with more energy efficient fluorescent bulbs.

The environment minister said the move could cut the country's greenhouse gas emissions by 4 million tonnes by 2012.

"It's a little thing but it's a massive change," Malcolm Turnbull said.

The decision will make Australia the first country to ban the light bulbs, although the idea has also been proposed in the US state of California.

Fluorescent first

Mr Turnbull said that he hoped the rest of the world would follow Australia's lead in banning the traditional bulbs.

"If the whole world switches to these bulbs today, we would reduce our consumption of electricity by an amount equal to five times Australia's annual consumption of electricity," he said.

The incandescent light bulb, which wastes energy in heat dispersed while the light is switched on, is based on a design invented in the 19th century by engineers including Thomas Edison and Joseph Swan.

The bulbs will be completely phased out by 2010 and replaced with the more fuel efficient compact fluorescent models which use around 20% of the electricity to produce the same amount of light.


Green Room logo. Image: BBC

Not such a bright idea?
Matt Prescott of the UK-based Ban the Bulb campaign said he was delighted that Australia and California are moving forward on this issue, which he highlighted in an article for the BBC News website a year ago.

"I'm now hoping that Arnold Schwarzenegger and John Howard make firm commitments to support these proposals, explore other energy saving technologies which are already available and enable their economies to reduce their carbon emissions, save money and benefit from rapid innovation," he said.

Green campaigners and the opposition party in Australia picked up the same theme, suggesting that ratifying the Kyoto Protocol would be a more powerful way for the country to reduce its greenhouse gas emissions.

"The major producers of emissions in this country are not individuals, they're governments and business," Peter Garrett, the opposition's environment spokesman, said.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/6378161.stm

I still prefer candles...

Because not all lights require convention light bulbs. Dimmers can't use the newer bulbs, or at least older models of the dimmers can't, and some chandeliers can only use the old skool bulbs. There are houses that would need to have their homes re-fitted wit modern light fixtures, which won't off-set the cost of investing in the energy-saving bulbs. It would cost more to the home owner and people aren't willing to invest if they get no returns. There would have to be government incentive for people to switch.

Hmm, the chandeleir thing is an issue... you can only use the small ended candle shaped bulbs in the ones i got at home. Do they do an energy efficient version of that??

Because fluorescent light is nasty.

when I lived in NY years ago, the power co that supplied us distributed either
4 or 6 of these compact floursecent bulbs to every customer.

I liked them and the fact that they used less than a 1/4 the energy of the incandescent bulb they replaced,so I got a bunch more on sale and now I use them in all fixtures,except the ones on a dimmer switch.
I even got outdoor spotlights that I think use 18 watts instead of 100 watts.

I had also heard a scientist explaining the regular light bulbs are actually little heaters that happen to throw off light-they arent very efficient as a light as they are a heater.

They compact flourescent do last longer and use less juice and thats enough for me. If it helps reduce emmissions/conserve energy,etc... thats even better.

Hmm, the chandeleir thing is an issue... you can only use the small ended candle shaped bulbs in the ones i got at home. Do they do an energy efficient version of that??

I'm sure someone will produce one as soon as there is a healthy demand.

I already use them in my house.

My house is fully converted - well except for the night lights and the chandeleir style bulbs in my living room ceiling fan.

Nice savings for sure.

Because fluorescent light is nasty.

Exactly.

And California's considering a ban too. Guess I should start stocking up on real bulbs before it's to late.

My house is fully converted - well except for the night lights and the chandeleir style bulbs in my living room ceiling fan.

Nice savings for sure.

How well do they work in the recessed cans? I really like the floods that I have in and I know the cans are spaced to provide even lighting based on the floods.

I'm a heavy user of the fluorescents in my garage, workshop, and bathrooms, though.

I read an article that GE has designed incandescent bulbs with energy performance equivalent to fluorescent bulbs combined with the benefits of incandescent light.

Perhaps it might be better to mandate that model of incandescent bulb, avoiding some of the challenges of switching the entire stock to fluorescent. In the longer term, you could set a target for switchover to fluorescent bulbs or LEDs and thereby make the switch somewhat easier.

Because not all lights require convention light bulbs. Dimmers can't use the newer bulbs, or at least older models of the dimmers can't, and some chandeliers can only use the old skool bulbs. There are houses that would need to have their homes re-fitted wit modern light fixtures, which won't off-set the cost of investing in the energy-saving bulbs. It would cost more to the home owner and people aren't willing to invest if they get no returns. There would have to be government incentive for people to switch.

The incentive is you'll choke to death on pollution or be cooked by global warming. Have a nice day. Fluorescent FTW.

I'm not waiting for my government to make the change mandatory, I'll make the switch as each of my old bulbs burn out, 30-40% of my homes lighting is already converted to halogen or LEDs....

and from the OPs article and who invented the light bulb-Thomas Edison, it wasn't....inventor of the bulb was Henry Woodward with help from Matthew Evans, a Toronto innkeeper. Around 1873 or 1874, they invented a glass bulb that housed a carbon filament and nitrogen gas. They patented it in 1875. Edison bought the patent when Woodward failed to raise the capital to market the light bulb....

Because fluorescent light is nasty.

On this, we agree. Fluorescent light is an abomination to the senses.

I think people don't switch as easily because it looks so... different. It is all, coily and such (Or at least all pictures of them I've seen) versus the regular old lightbulbs. I think people just don't like things that look funny.

Almost every light in this house has the compact flourescent type bulb. They last longer, and the electricity bill was noticably cheaper after the switch.

Our main reason for switching wasn't anything to do with eco-issues per se, but the regular ones had been blowing out within weeks, and I was sick of changing 'em (especially the hard-to-reach ones). These flourescents last almost a year, so that pretty much eliminates the annoyance. The fact that they're cheaper over the long run (both because you don't have to buy so many, and the lower electricity bills) is a great bonus. This is one of just a few "green" things where I can see lots of benefits besides the ecological aspects.

As for how the light is, personally I like the bright flourescent light because it helps my mood. Although nothing beats the long days of summer for that, these bulbs do a lot more for me than the incandescents. Of course, the pinnacle would be sun-mimicking lights, but I haven't found any that are both decent and cheap.

I think people don't switch as easily because it looks so... different. It is all, coily and such (Or at least all pictures of them I've seen) versus the regular old lightbulbs. I think people just don't like things that look funny.I like the coils, I think it makes them look cool. Regular light bulbs are boring.

In my home I have already changed all lights to energy saving fluorescent bulbs. They reduce my energy bill, they last longer and they are brighter, so what could I want more (except my own private sun) ?

I've also replaced just about all the bulbs in our house with fluoro's, except for the small number of halogens (would they be classed as incandescents under Aussie legislation I wonder?).

In my home I have already changed all lights to energy saving fluorescent bulbs. They reduce my energy bill, they last longer and they are brighter, so what could I want more (except my own private sun) ?

They have ones designed to be more similar to sunlight than to incandescent bulb light.

Because not all lights require convention light bulbs. Dimmers can't use the newer bulbs, or at least older models of the dimmers can't, and some chandeliers can only use the old skool bulbs. There are houses that would need to have their homes re-fitted wit modern light fixtures, which won't off-set the cost of investing in the energy-saving bulbs. It would cost more to the home owner and people aren't willing to invest if they get no returns. There would have to be government incentive for people to switch.

The dimmer thing is a problem, but for most domestic lights the same fixtures can be used. It is only the light cover which can be the problem (due tothe slightly longer length.

In fact a similar outlook on LED systems would work well for dimmers.

Because fluorescent light is nasty.

Design of the fluorescent lights have gotten good enough to produce almost the same type of (visable) light output of an incandescent bulb.

Exactly.
And California's considering a ban too. Guess I should start stocking up on real bulbs before it's to late.

Wouldn't an arc

I read an article that GE has designed incandescent bulbs with energy performance equivalent to fluorescent bulbs combined with the benefits of incandescent light.

Perhaps it might be better to mandate that model of incandescent bulb, avoiding some of the challenges of switching the entire stock to fluorescent. In the longer term, you could set a target for switchover to fluorescent bulbs or LEDs and thereby make the switch somewhat easier.

However if that does exist then it would be much more expensive than a fluorescent bulb could be.

What benefits are there of incandescent light? All it is is just a lot of infrared light with a bit of visable light mixed in. It is the Hummer Limo of the modern electric light world.

When I saw the title of this thread, I assumed it would be about the hospital in Surrey where they have removed light bulbs from corridors to save money...
maybe they should try these instead.

I hate fluorescent lighting. It hurts my eyes, causes flickering on computer screens and TVs, and older lamps sound like mosquitos.

I'd prefer to have Solid State Lighting over Fluorescent Lighting any day. Lower power consumption than Fluorescent lights, they don't hum, they have a longer life, they're compact. The only problem is they emit a very narrow range of light. But this can easily be overcome by mixing a few in the same light as they're so compact.

edit: and SSL lights don't have a warm up time like Fluorescent lights.

I even got outdoor spotlights that I think use 18 watts instead of 100 watts.I hope you don't live in an area which gets cold winters. Fluorescent lights fail to work below 0C (32F).

I hope you don't live in an area which gets cold winters. Fluorescent lights fail to work below 0C (32F).

Oh really? Not for my house. We've had temperatures falling easily below 0 degress Farenheit, let alone Celcius, and our flourescent lighting is working just fine.

Am I the only one who likes flourescent lighting? Our entire house is outfitted with them and I love it over any incandescent lighting.

Am I the only one who likes flourescent lighting? Our entire house is outfitted with them and I love it over any incandescent lighting.

Fluorescent lighting makes even the healthy look ill. And what about novelty/mood lighting & motion lamps? Guess there's no room for whimsy in our future.

Fluorescent lighting makes even the healthy look ill. And what about novelty/mood lighting & motion lamps? Guess there's no room for whimsy in our future.

The reason why they make people look ill is because they do not produce enough red light. This is remedied by including a phosphor that produces more red light.

Most domestic lights would be the types that include about 4 phosphours. That would produce a suitable mix of red, green and blue, making a white light. They are more inefficient than a single phosphour fluorescent light but they still easily beat incandescent by about 2:1 (or 3:1 for higher qualities). only problem is that on the last (I think) 10% of the light of the bulb the red light gets less prominence so you look sickly, but you still save a tonne on electricity costs even if you replace it then.

I guess for incandescent lights that cannot be easily replaced by more efficient one you could get a permit to purchase restricted globes. That or the shop itself could only have a certain amount (and at speciality stores, like if you wanted bakelite you would go to a specialist).

This seems so easy, with great benefits relative to its cost. Why isnt every country doing this?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/6378161.stm

Most people only can visualize the initial cost for a bulb. That said, the cost of the compact flourescent has come down, and the designs now fit in nearly every type of lamp.

In the 1970s, the standard bulb used to be 75 watt - and over time in the US, has been replaced by and large by the 60 and even 40 watt bulb. Houses have been dimmer as a result.

Now that I've replaced everything with a compact flourescent, I can have a brighter house. I don't buy one that won't match the output of a 100 watt incandescent, but I'm still using less electricity.

Sure, the bulbs have an initial cost, but I have a brighter house, and I'm still saving money.

I hate fluorescent lighting. It hurts my eyes, causes flickering on computer screens and TVs, and older lamps sound like mosquitos.

I'd prefer to have Solid State Lighting over Fluorescent Lighting any day. Lower power consumption than Fluorescent lights, they don't hum, they have a longer life, they're compact. The only problem is they emit a very narrow range of light. But this can easily be overcome by mixing a few in the same light as they're so compact.

edit: and SSL lights don't have a warm up time like Fluorescent lights.

I'd like solid state too but as it stands they are simply not efficient enough at the small scale and the multi colour versions (to get white light) would be more likely to shift colour than a fluorescent due to individual colours failing.

The compact fluorescent do not have (much) humming due to better ingnition systems

On this, we agree. Fluorescent light is an abomination to the senses.

Most definitely.

Exactly.

And California's considering a ban too. Guess I should start stocking up on real bulbs before it's to late.

California's fucked in the head.

The incentive is you'll choke to death on pollution or be cooked by global warming. Have a nice day. Fluorescent FTW.

Yes, because light bulbs cause these things. Hooray for absurd rhetoric and bad science! :rolleyes:

When we use kinoflows they have a dimmer on the back, so surely a florescent could be used with a dimmer, and we color those lights like crazy so the florescent 'look' is remarkably easy to over come. Most times the kino has a set of tungsten balanced lights and daylight balanced lights. And those little bulbs don't have the same pail pulse look of the ones in hallways.

And who has naked bulbs lighting their house, anyway? I'm pretty slackery and I still don't have that...

The incentive is you'll choke to death on pollution or be cooked by global warming. Have a nice day. Fluorescent FTW.

The pollution hasn't killed me yet and I live in a very densely populated area of Canada. And secondly, global warming can cook me because I jumped out of the fire before my goose got roosted.

Now, I prefer old skool lighting over fluorescent because fluorescent lights make it harder for me to read and they cause reflections on my monitor and they have an annoying tendency to flicker when they begin to die.

Because fluorescent light is nasty.
indeed!

And who has naked bulbs lighting their house, anyway? I'm pretty slackery and I still don't have that...

There probably is pearl/opaque versions of them as well.

Most definitely.

As Cannot think of a name said, it is quite easy to overcome that by mixing in 3-4 different colours.

California's fucked in the head.

It can't be if it has such a huge amount to contribute with the U.S and seems to not be trying to put through creationism 'biology' and petty gay union bans.

Yes, because light bulbs cause these things. Hooray for absurd rhetoric and bad science! :rolleyes:

That is more a case of inefficient power usage, causing more power needed to be generated (thus more co2 emissions).

Cut down some trees, get some pitch from pine trees, and make yourself some fine torches.

Doesn't use any electricity!

Cut down some trees, get some pitch from pine trees, and make yourself some fine torches.

Doesn't use any electricity!

It is more inefficient though. : )

Oh really? Not for my house. We've had temperatures falling easily below 0 degress Farenheit, let alone Celcius, and our flourescent lighting is working just fine.Really? That's not my experience. Do you leave them on constantly, because it's they have trouble starting, not keeping going. And they were outside your house right? I can't imagine any ever letting the inside of their house fall below 0C.

Maybe there have been some improvements in recent years.I'd like solid state too but as it stands they are simply not efficient enough at the small scale and the multi colour versions (to get white light) would be more likely to shift colour than a fluorescent due to individual colours failing.Yeah, but the solid state lights are less likely to fail and more likely to last longer. And stop raining on my parade. I like my SSL bike lights :p The batteries last forever and a day.The compact fluorescent do not have (much) humming due to better ingnition systemsI did say older fluorescent lights as well. :p

I still stand by SSL. They are made of win.