NationStates Jolt Archive

Don't these natives understand that when it becomes tropical where they are Americans will want to buy vacations homes? Then they can build a casino and make some real money. Joking aside I think this is a way to try and get money for "damages". Global warming has not been proven without a doubt linked to humans. Some would even argue if it is happening at all. So these guys have already decided it's all America's fault.

Arctic Canadians say U.S. emissions violate human rightshttp://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/americas/03/01/us.canada.climate.ap/index.html

Also America's fault somehow.
http://www.windows.ucar.edu/tour/link=/earth/climate/medieval_warm_period.html

What about China? If there's anyone who deserves criticism for egregious disregard of human rights and environmental pollution, it's them.

Pound for pound, US emissions are nothing compared to the stuff being cranked out in India or China. Hell, even Canada probably produces more CO2 per capita because of their lack of fuel economy standards and the oil industry...I think their problems are being produced closer to home.

Your signature is funny. Can you be an 'illegal' immigrant without breaking the law?

While the US may have some questions to answer over emissions, it is not the only offender, and shouldn't be singled out for criticism.

Don't these natives understand that when it becomes tropical where they are Americans will want to buy vacations homes? Then they can build a casino and make some real money. Joking aside I think this is a way to try and get money for "damages". Global warming has not been proven without a doubt linked to humans. Some would even argue if it is happening at all. So these guys have already decided it all America's fault.

Arctic Canadians say U.S. emissions violate human rightshttp://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/americas/03/01/us.canada.climate.ap/index.html

Also America's fault somehow.
http://www.windows.ucar.edu/tour/link=/earth/climate/medieval_warm_period.html

America's involved but I think the Philippines is also responsible, they ABSOLUTELY NO anti-pollution laws there. I nearly had my lung melt due to chemical burns there. *shudders*

Of course Canadian emissions are just jim dandy.

Actually, a canadian once explained to me why it is actually perfectly reasonable that they emit more co2 per person than anyone else, but everyone else is evil or something.

America's involved but I think the Philippines is also responsible, they ABSOLUTELY NO anti-pollution laws there. I nearly had my lung melt due to chemical burns there. *shudders*

Include all of south east Asia and China. Been to Thailand and China. Both nations are horribly polluted.

Of course Canadian emissions are just jim dandy.

Actually, a canadian once explained to me why it is actually perfectly reasonable that they emit more co2 per person than anyone else, but everyone else is evil or something.

Canadian shit don't stink either......

Include all of south east Asia and China. Been to Thailand and China. Both nations are horribly polluted.

Chinese garbage washes up on the shores of other countries all the time, and their pollutants are ruining the environment as far over as San Francisco. They're out of control.

Your signature is funny. Can you be an 'illegal' immigrant without breaking the law?
.

Yes, the time from when you crossed the border illegally until the time someone finds out that you crossed the border illegally.;)

Canadian shit don't stink either......

It's true. They can sell it as chocolate frosting.

The potential effect of global warming on the Inuit way of life is quite real. A human rights issue? I'm not so sure. At the very least however, they can show how global warming is affecting their traditional way of life and bring the issue more attention in the North America, where our governments are largely ignoring the issue.

Blaming the United States for attacking their 'human rights' probably won't win them any sympathy however.

global warming is a myth, so the arctic circle is never going to become a tropical region. never.

What about China? If there's anyone who deserves criticism for egregious disregard of human rights and environmental pollution, it's them.

Pound for pound, US emissions are nothing compared to the stuff being cranked out in India or China. Hell, even Canada probably produces more CO2 per capita because of their lack of fuel economy standards and the oil industry...I think their problems are being produced closer to home.
Population of the US : 4ish% of the world total
Polution from the US : 22ish% of the world total

Urmm... you guys are looking pretty bad, to be honest.

Population of the US : 4ish% of the world total
Polution from the US : 22ish% of the world total

Urmm... you guys are looking pretty bad, to be honest.

US share of the world economy: 29%

So, we produce 22% of emissions but we also produce 29% of the gross world product. That's where those emissions are coming from.

Population of the US : 4ish% of the world total
Polution from the US : 22ish% of the world total

Urmm... you guys are looking pretty bad, to be honest.

As bad as the coal haze over Northren England/Scotland (UK) in the winter? Was suprised you could buy coal to burn in fireplaces in the UK. Dirty dirty coal..... ;)

Well it is popular to blame the U.S. for pretty much everything so why not this as well? It doesn't have to be true but what the hell? Everyone else is going after America why not them as well? Jump on the bandwagon!

US share of the world economy: 29%

So, we produce 22% of emissions but we also produce 29% of the gross world product. That's where those emissions are coming from.

Quick drawl in the NS corral. I like it. :p

Of course Canadian emissions are just jim dandy.

Actually, a canadian once explained to me why it is actually perfectly reasonable that they emit more co2 per person than anyone else, but everyone else is evil or something.
It does take more energy to keep us warm.

Population of the US : 4ish% of the world total
Polution from the US : 22ish% of the world total

Urmm... you guys are looking pretty bad, to be honest.

Well it is popular to blame the U.S. for pretty much everything so why not this as well? It doesn't have to be true but what the hell? Everyone else is going after America why not them as well? Jump on the bandwagon!

I think they should be grateful we allow them to partake of our precious Emissions. And for free, too, we could charge for them and then you'd hear about it. And anyway, why are these people still living in on the shores of the Arctic Ocean, for goodness' sake? It's dark there half the year, the sun doesn't even make it all the way above the horizon, the temperature is below zero most of the time, they exist by eating blubber, I mean, really! They should do what the other aboriginal Americans did and move south. For instance, we could rent them places in Minnesota, it'd be better in general, and for the homesick ones, they'd have some nice howling blizzards during the winter. Plenty of lakes to fish in, maybe no whales but who needs to go rowing out on a frozen ocean after 40 tons of fat?

:p

China doesn't compare to the USA no country does, The USA is Gold Medal Winner for pollution.....

The USA EU Countries China Total
Population of world: 4.6% 6.3% 21% 31.9%
World economy: 30% 23% 3.2% 56.2%
CO2 Emissions: 24% 14% 13% 51%

Canadians produce a lot per person maybe the most-similar life style to americans but with a colder climate

fuel economy standards are the same as americans-we drive the same cars

oil industry,yup huge polluters, want to help stop it? stop buying our oil...

Apparently you miss how economic output is tied with emissions. Can you disprove that small point?

What about China? If there's anyone who deserves criticism for egregious disregard of human rights and environmental pollution, it's them.

Pound for pound, US emissions are nothing compared to the stuff being cranked out in India or China. Hell, even Canada probably produces more CO2 per capita because of their lack of fuel economy standards and the oil industry...I think their problems are being produced closer to home.

China doesn't compare to the USA no country does, The USA is Gold Medal Winner for pollution.....

The USA EU Countries China Total
Population of world: 4.6% 6.3% 21% 31.9%
World economy: 30% 23% 3.2% 56.2%
CO2 Emissions: 24% 14% 13% 51%

Canadians produce a lot per person maybe the most-similar life style to americans but with a colder climate

fuel economy standards are the same as americans-we drive the same cars

oil industry,yup huge polluters, want to help stop it? stop buying our oil...

Apparently you miss how economic output is tied with emissions. Can you disprove that small point? look at the figures,the USA sucks when it comes to emissions can you disprove that small point????


the EU with 23% of world economy produces 14% of the pollution with a greater population than the USA...

the USA with a smaller population produces more pollution., 30% of the economy and 24% of the pollution

so even taking into consideration the % of the world economy the EU with a bigger population produces 3% less emissions....

USA - EU - China
30% - 23% - 3.2% Economy
24% - 14% - 13% Emissions

Compared to their share of the economy, China produces way more emissions than the US does. Your own data says so.

Compared to their share of the economy, China produces way more emissions than the US does. Your own data says so.

china has 4 times the population of the US, so on a per person basis the US wins....if China was equal they would be producing 52% of the emissions, I suck at math so check it if you want...

Global warming has not been proven without a doubt linked to humans.
Current theories of gravity haven't been proven without a doubt. That doesn't mean that you have a 50:50 chance of surviving if you drive a car off a cliff.

Some would even argue if it is happening at all.
Yeah, people with strong political views and little scientific background.

So these guys have already decided it's all America's fault.
I'd say emitting more greenhouse gases than anyone else might have something to do with that.

Canada emits more greenhouses gases than most other nations per capita because we're stupid enough to sell the fools to the south of us power at the cost of our own environment.

Frankly, I think we should just let California go without 20%+ of their power and the same to New England.

Of course Canadian emissions are just jim dandy.

Actually, a canadian once explained to me why it is actually perfectly reasonable that they emit more co2 per person than anyone else, but everyone else is evil or something.
What? Canada's not allowed to have asshats anymore? I'll start telling the public.

*sigh*

i see the natives are giving the American population the same trip we Canadians have been putting up with forever...

1) our problems are your fault
2) we want compensation
3) we want more compensation

just ignore it, and everyone will go back to milking the Canadian government.


oh... but the US could also trim it's emission output... global warming arguments aside- it's just plain bad for everyone's health. of course, the US isnt the only cuplrit in that department..

"Global warming" has been happening for the past 18,000 years since the last massive ice age. It's estimated the large ice ages occur between 15,000-20,000 years normally marked by even warmer periods before they happen. The ice caps begin to melt, raising the ocean level, and covering parts of the land. Afterwards the climate cools and that ices over but the planet will warm once again starting at the equator causing the ice caps to retreat.

That being said, this climate change is normal and natural. Humans do have a slight impact but we don't make much of a difference either way. People are having the "chicken little" syndrome and although it's understanding to be worried about the planet changing us spending time and money on trying to stop such things is frivolous. However, it IS a good idea to try and keep what we can control healthy but using "global warming" propaganda to achieve it just sounds foolish.

china has 4 times the population of the US, so on a per person basis the US wins....if China was equal they would be producing 52% of the emissions, I suck at math so check it if you want...
Yes, per person US has more emissions, but per production unit China has more emissions. Which one is the more relevant measure?

I think production. China's production is far less efficient than America's if you look at all that waste co2.

Current theories of gravity haven't been proven without a doubt. That doesn't mean that you have a 50:50 chance of surviving if you drive a car off a cliff.

I would say the mere fact that we are not thrown out in space proves that gravity exists. Notice I said it hasn't been proven without a doubt that humans are the cause of global warming.


Yeah, people with strong political views and little scientific background..

Not to say that the climate is not changing but the same could be said for those fear mongering about global warming.


I'd say emitting more greenhouse gases than anyone else might have something to do with that.

Again there is a strong correlation between GDP and greenhouse gasses.

I would say the mere fact that we are not thrown out in space proves that gravity exists. Notice I said it hasn't been proven without a doubt that humans are the cause of global warming.
Nothing is proven beyond a doubt in science. That's pretty important basic knowledge to have before you start taking sides on scientific issues.

Not to say that the climate is not changing but the same could be said for those fear mongering about global warming.
Trying to get people to actually take significant action is hardly fearmongering.

Yes, per person US has more emissions, but per production unit China has more emissions. Which one is the more relevant measure?

straight up tons of co2. or were we talking about something other than changing the composition of the atmosphere?

Nothing is proven beyond a doubt in science. That's pretty important basic knowledge to have before you start taking sides on scientific issues.


Trying to get people to actually take significant action is hardly fearmongering.

I can safely say that what you drew comparison to is a fact. We have gravity and a five your old can comprehend that it is happening. That is not true that nothing is proven beyond a doubt in science. In fact a fallacy. I could throw out that the sun lights the planet. Gravity, space, time and the likes. However what is or is not causing our current situation has not been proven. If you apply your term to the this subject then you are correct. However to make a broad statement as you have is ridiculous.

When some scientist or wannabe scientist such as Al Gore say that we are all doomed and our cities will be swamped is fear mongering. If it isn't then what is?

straight up tons of co2. or were we talking about something other than changing the composition of the atmosphere?

Even there China's the worst. They're putting out CO2 that's growing in the double digits while the US is pretty much flat.

Even there China's the worst. They're putting out CO2 that's growing in the double digits while the US is pretty much flat.

whisky tango foxtrot?

china is more responsible for global climate because in the future they will match the usian's atmosphere changing record of achievement?

Even there China's the worst. They're putting out CO2 that's growing in the double digits while the US is pretty much flat.

If you look at the rate of consumption of resources it is staggering. They will eclipse in the near future the US for greenhouse gas emissions



Planet Faces Nightmare Forecasts as Chinese Consumption Grows and Grows
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines05/0310-03.htm

"my god...it's full of dumb"

"my god...i'm full of dumb"

Hmmmm... whatever you say. :p

Well it is popular to blame the U.S. for pretty much everything so why not this as well? It doesn't have to be true but what the hell? Everyone else is going after America why not them as well? Jump on the bandwagon!

haha, you make it sound as if the US is being victimized by the international community! please. i believe that the American government has done it's fair share of international meddling over the past half-century+, and it is finally being held accountable in some cases!

haha, you make it sound as if the US is being victimized by the international community! please. i believe that the American government has done it's fair share of international meddling over the past half-century+, and it is finally being held accountable in some cases!

I know we meddled in WWI, WWII, Korea and against the commies! How dare us meddle in other people's affairs. We should just stick our head in the sand and what happens happens. :rolleyes:

I know we meddled in WWI, WWII, Korea and against the commies! How dare us meddle in other people's affairs. We should just stick our head in the sand and what happens happens. :rolleyes:

just for a few years... it would be a lovely and welcome policy switch for the US. surely you dont mean to forget Vietnam, Iraq, Iran, Central America, South America...

Again there is a strong correlation between GDP and greenhouse gasses.

sfw?


the claim is that climate change will have an adverse affect on the traditional lifestyles of the indigenous peoples of the arctic. this is true.

the next claim is that climate change is caused by human activities, particularly pumping out massive quantities of carbon. this is true.

a third claim is that the united states is responsible for a plurality of the above mentioned carbon emissions. and to dispute this you say, "yeah, but look at all this money we made"? seriously, wtf? your defense is an admission of fucking guilt.

just for a few years... it would be a lovely and welcome policy switch for the US. surely you dont mean to forget Vietnam, Iraq, Iran, Central America, South America...

Vietnam was a communist victory. We should have won. The Gulf War for which I served in was a UN mandated war which removed Iraq from Kuwait. Iraq war is a continuation really of the Gulf War. Central America? You mean when we took out Noriega? When we helped the Contra's? How about when we helped restore democracy in Costa Rica. Not to forget the nations we had to involve ourselves in the Caribbean. As far as Iran. They are asking for the trouble at the moment. They deserve what gets rained down on them. Not going to say the US hasn't done everything right however as a force of good it is right on top of things. Like it or not that is how it is.

sfw?


the claim is that climate change will have an adverse affect on the traditional lifestyles of the indigenous peoples of the arctic. this is true. The effects are pretty striking. The permafrost is melting. Houses have to be built on stilts in the North to prevent that melting, which causes the home to buckle and shift. Well, the permafrost melting means that the supports for the homes on stilts is buckling and shifting...with disasterous consequences.

The caribou herds are ranging further away from their eons-old calving grounds...the change has been somewhat gradual, but marked when the elders note that it's been over the past 20 years only.

The fish are getting leaner.

And the traditional inuit prey, whales, seal, and ocean fish, are some of the most heavily polluted animals in the world. I don't quite understand it, but we had a number of environmental presentations while we were up there explaining to the people how industrial pollutants dumped into the oceans tend to concentrate in the Arctic Ocean beacuse of the currents. So, you have a people who on the whole produce next to no pollution, dealing with some of the most heavily polluted foodstocks on earth. Maybe beat out by Chernobyl.

Fucking rights thats a human rights abuse.

But the US is not the only one to blame.

Not going to say the US hasn't done everything right

You never have before, so why should today be any different?

*yawn*

Short memory.

whisky tango foxtrot?

china is more responsible for global climate because in the future they will match the usian's atmosphere changing record of achievement?

Future? More like five to ten years tops. They're already at half of our total, and it'll only take a few more years of their 15-20% growth in emissions to push that well above us.

But the US is not the only one to blame.

indeed. they just happen to be the biggest point source, and thus make for the most reasonable opening target.

Oh by the way...you know why this is even an issue? The Mackenzie Valley Pipeline, and the diamond mines.

For about a month each year, an ice road is buit all the way up to the mines and the communities of the North. Warm temperatures have meant that the road has been open for shorter periods of time these past few years. It's been a total disaster, because in that one month, all the fuel and machinery needed to produce billions of dollars of diamonds, and to build that damn pipeline, have to be trucked up there in an unbelievable convoy.

This is the first year in the past six that the ice road opened up early. But another few years of warm weather, and oil exploration and diamond exploitation could go under. Fuel can be flown in, but never enough...and the kind of heavy machinery they need up there can't be brought in like that. Billion dollar industries are actually threatened by global warming.

So now politicians give a shit.

Hmm. Strange.

This site (http://www.thedieselgypsy.com/Ice%20Roads-3B-Denison.htm) has some interesting pics of the ice road throughout the years...in particular check out the machines that end up going under:)

Future? More like five to ten years tops.

your understanding of the nature of time and causality and mine seem to be rather dissimilar.

sfw?


the claim is that climate change will have an adverse affect on the traditional lifestyles of the indigenous peoples of the arctic. this is true. .

Yes and so was the past warming periods. The last being the medieval warming.

the next claim is that climate change is caused by human activities, particularly pumping out massive quantities of carbon. this is true..

Currently false. Has not been determined one way or the other. Reduction however is not a bad thing and should be attempted.



a third claim is that the united states is responsible for a plurality of the above mentioned carbon emissions. and to dispute this you say, "yeah, but look at all this money we made"? seriously, wtf? your defense is an admission of fucking guilt.


I assume then if we go back to a agrarian society then everything will be just dandy? We have to produce in order to have our society functional. That includes everything that you and I enjoy in our daily lives. The fact is that the US is number one in GDP. If you want to include the EU as a nation which it isn't then it is number one in GDP. As you should know GDP means production and services which means our way of life when you break it down. This has nothing to do with the amount of money but production and services. Can the US reduce emissions? Yes it should try. However to just point and say the US is EVIL because of its emissions and give no regards to other factors is just stupid. I am not making a point that we have an excuse but the point that there is a reason for the large amount of emissions.

You never have before, so why should today be any different?

*yawn*

Short memory.

Keep smoking your pipe. Eventually you will forget everything and the world will be bliss.

your understanding of the nature of time and causality and mine seem to be rather dissimilar.

When I hear future, I think long-term rather than short-term.

Oh by the way...you know why this is even an issue? The Mackenzie Valley Pipeline, and the diamond mines.

For about a month each year, an ice road is buit all the way up to the mines and the communities of the North. Warm temperatures have meant that the road has been open for shorter periods of time these past few years. It's been a total disaster, because in that one month, all the fuel and machinery needed to produce billions of dollars of diamonds, and to build that damn pipeline, have to be trucked up there in an unbelievable convoy.

This is the first year in the past six that the ice road opened up early. But another few years of warm weather, and oil exploration and diamond exploitation could go under. Fuel can be flown in, but never enough...and the kind of heavy machinery they need up there can't be brought in like that. Billion dollar industries are actually threatened by global warming.

So now politicians give a shit.

Hmm. Strange.

This site (http://www.thedieselgypsy.com/Ice%20Roads-3B-Denison.htm) has some interesting pics of the ice road throughout the years...in particular check out the machines that end up going under:)

I have seen a documentary on that road. It is a marvel to say the least. However if it is either oil or diamonds there is enough money to find an alternative route. Making a buck is a large incentive to find a way.

However to just point and say the US is EVIL because of its emissions and give no regards to other factors is just stupid. I am not making a point that we have an excuse but the point that there is a reason for the large amount of emissions.

Here's my problem.

You can put crazy women in space.

You can invent Bill Gates and the banana hammock.

You can do all these amazing things...but you can't cut down on pollution?

What the point of being so bloody 'advanced' then, hmmm? If all you end up with is a psycho in diapers and a geeky capitalist techno-billy in Borat's used underwear?

I have seen a documentary on that road. It is a marvel to say the least. However if it is either oil or diamonds there is enough money to find an alternative route. Making a buck is a large incentive to find a way.

Yes, but making a buck doesn't mean squat when transportation costs become higher than output.

The ice road is the cheapest alternative they've got...and it costs about 1 million buckarooneys per kilometre.

an article (http://www.hrd.be/index.php?id=334) about global warming and how it's impacting industry. Boohoo.

Currently false. Has not been determined one way or the other.

since i know you have been shown the actual scientific sources before, this statement is either the result of massive stupidity or straight up malice

I can safely say that what you drew comparison to is a fact. We have gravity and a five your old can comprehend that it is happening. That is not true that nothing is proven beyond a doubt in science. In fact a fallacy. I could throw out that the sun lights the planet. Gravity, space, time and the likes. However what is or is not causing our current situation has not been proven. If you apply your term to the this subject then you are correct. However to make a broad statement as you have is ridiculous.
It's not a broad statement, it's a fundamental principle of science. Science works through theories. Besides, my example is perfectly valid. Gravity is not just a binary thing that you either have or don't. There are a whole range of theories you could have about how gravity works. But like climate change, all reputable scientists agree on the same one.

When some scientist or wannabe scientist such as Al Gore say that we are all doomed and our cities will be swamped is fear mongering. If it isn't then what is?
You're just exaggerating what is being said to make it sound ridiculous. If nobody took any action, then yes, disasters would occur. That is not the same as being doomed. :rolleyes:

Here's my problem.

You can put crazy women in space.

You can invent Bill Gates and the banana hammock.

You can do all these amazing things...but you can't cut down on pollution?

What the point of being so bloody 'advanced' then, hmmm? If all you end up with is a psycho in diapers and a geeky capitalist techno-billy in Borat's used underwear?


I believe that we are trying to reduce pollution. There are large recycling programs in place. Our energy sector is on board with reduction of pollution and renewable energy. There is a definitive movement within the US to reduce our "carbon" footprint one at a time. Even the government gets involved. Look at attempts with the clear skies initiative of 2002. We as a nation are not just sitting back laughing at the rest of the world about pollution.

US emissions 1990-2002
http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0778287.html

US GPD vs emissions 1990-2002

http://www.eia.doe.gov/oiaf/1605/gg03rpt/summary/carbon.html

To say that we don't try to cut emissions is incorrect. Clearly as a percentage of GDP we are cutting emissions. We should also keep working on it. The US should set an example for the world.

Keep smoking your pipe. Eventually you will forget everything and the world will be bliss.

I am the pipe, there fella. People smoke me.

It's not a broad statement, it's a fundamental principle of science. Science works through theories. Besides, my example is perfectly valid. Gravity is not just a binary thing that you either have or don't. There are a whole range of theories you could have about how gravity works. But like climate change, all reputable scientists agree on the same one.:

So scientists are only reputable if they agree that humans are causing climate change?



You're just exaggerating what is being said to make it sound ridiculous. If nobody took any action, then yes, disasters would occur. That is not the same as being doomed. :rolleyes:

Sorry not exaggerating one bit. Rent all Gore's movie and tell me if I am exaggerating with that statement. Yes I agree it does sound ridiculous that they are making those claims. We have really not a real clue on what would happen if we did or did not do something. Should we try to make an attempt? I can say yes to that.

I am the pipe, there fella. People smoke me.

LOl, must be some good stuff... ;)

[QUOTE=Marrakech II;12383666]The Gulf War for which I served in was a UN mandated war which removed Iraq from Kuwait.QUOTE]

i meant the arming of Saddam when i said Iraq. you know, all the funding and arms that went to Saddam courtesy of the US before he decided to turn on America? and as for C. and S. America... the assasination of Che Guevara, as well as the CIAs continuted support of drug cartels throughout Central and South America, to name a couple.

it's just foolish foreign policy to screw around with nations all over the world to benefit the US, and the rest of the international community is getting a little fed up... problem is, now they control real weapons and pose real threats.

So scientists are only reputable if they agree that humans are causing climate change?

They're not reputable because they agree, but I find it doubtful that you could find examples of scientists with a good reputation in relevant fields who go with the corporately-backed version.

In Beijing we used to say it was better to smoke cigarettes than breathe the air, at least cigarettes have a filter

They're not reputable because they agree, but I find it doubtful that you could find examples of scientists with a good reputation in relevant fields who go with the corporately-backed version.

hell, you won't even find any with marginal reputations that are doing research or publishing in reputable journals on that side. all they've got over there are embarrassments and sad jokes.

Don't these natives understand that when it becomes tropical where they are Americans will want to buy vacations homes? Then they can build a casino and make some real money. Joking aside I think this is a way to try and get money for "damages". Global warming has not been proven without a doubt linked to humans. Some would even argue if it is happening at all. So these guys have already decided it's all America's fault.

Arctic Canadians say U.S. emissions violate human rightshttp://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/americas/03/01/us.canada.climate.ap/index.html

Also America's fault somehow.
http://www.windows.ucar.edu/tour/link=/earth/climate/medieval_warm_period.html

They have as much chance of getting anywhere with this as Ted Williams has of thawing out and batting .500 for the Red Sox. They might as well get used to having beachfront property.

Looks like Eskimo Pies may need to come out with a new product that's served hot :p

They're not reputable because they agree, but I find it doubtful that you could find examples of scientists with a good reputation in relevant fields who go with the corporately-backed version.

Try looking a little harder. Here's one who doesn't buy the global-warming orthodoxy:

http://www.upenn.edu/researchatpenn/article.php?1086&sci

I know we meddled in WWI, WWII, Korea and against the commies! How dare us meddle in other people's affairs. We should just stick our head in the sand and what happens happens. :rolleyes:

yeah....ww1 and ww2 USA wanted no part of either so you did bury your collective heads in the sand....when it's convenient, it's an easy win and in the USA's best interest(financial) it's "we must save these people from the commies" even when the rest of the world is saying stay out.....

Vietnam was a communist victory. We should have won. The Gulf War for which I served in was a UN mandated war which removed Iraq from Kuwait. Iraq war is a continuation really of the Gulf War. Central America? You mean when we took out Noriega? When we helped the Contra's? How about when we helped restore democracy in Costa Rica. Not to forget the nations we had to involve ourselves in the Caribbean. As far as Iran. They are asking for the trouble at the moment. They deserve what gets rained down on them. Not going to say the US hasn't done everything right however as a force of good it is right on top of things. Like it or not that is how it is.

vietnam the usa should never have been there in the first place....

Gulf 1-another war based on lies-babies tossed from incubators-hoax..Saddam's army massing on the Saudi border..total fabrication

Noriega...a dictator on the CIA payroll, and then the USA flattened a neighbourhood killing 500-1000 civilians, neighbourhoods get bombed often in LA when the police are hunting drug lords?

Helped the contra's? you take credit for terrorists who murdered civilians on scale Osama could never match...Osama 3,000 Reagan Contra's 60,000

Grenada? they were a threat to the USA?

when has the USA invaded anyone when there wasn't profit motive?

share with us please ...what has the USA done right?

vietnam the usa should never have been there in the first place....

Gulf 1-another war based on lies-babies tossed from incubators-hoax..Saddam's army massing on the Saudi border..total fabrication

Noriega...a dictator on the CIA payroll, and then the USA flattened a neighbourhood killing 500-1000 civilians, neighbourhoods get bombed often in LA when the police are hunting drug lords?

Helped the contra's? you take credit for terrorists who murdered civilians on scale Osama could never match...Osama 3,000 Reagan Contra's 60,000

Grenada? they were a threat to the USA?

when has the USA invaded anyone when there wasn't profit motive?

share with us please ...what has the USA done right?

Shall we get back to the global warming issue or would you like to make a new thread on how the US is no good? You obviously come from a biased viewpoint and can tell you that you don't know what your talking about especially when has to do with military operations.

Try looking a little harder. Here's one who doesn't buy the global-warming orthodoxy:

http://www.upenn.edu/researchatpenn/article.php?1086&sci

"The data show there were periods when the carbon-dioxide concentration in the atmosphere was much higher than today and the Earth was warmer, but there were also times when the Earth was glaciated despite vastly higher levels of carbon dioxide. That record seems to violate the one-to-one correspondence between more greenhouse gases and higher temperatures."

yeah, because that's a widely held position...

i am interested in which episodes of glaciation occurred with 'vastly higher' co2 levels. at a guess, i'd say he's talking about the really old ones, back before we got all this 'oxygen' in the atmosphere. which really doesn't make for much in the way of a good comparison, even if the mechanics today were a totally mystery (which they aren't).

a quick web o' science search doesn't turn up much of interest when it comes to climatology from him, btw.

Shall we get back to the global warming issue or would you like to make a new thread on how the US is no good? You obviously come from a biased viewpoint and can tell you that you don't know what your talking about especially when has to do with military operations.


lol!!!! you bring it up you're glorious :rolleyes: military history and it's my fault we're off topic:rolleyes: judging by your deluded comments you haven't a clue about your own history....

and please tell me when the USA intervened and restored Costa Rica's democracy?.... I've searched Google and found nothing....USA does not have history of restoring democracy's, it does have one of restoring dictatorships...

"The data show there were periods when the carbon-dioxide concentration in the atmosphere was much higher than today and the Earth was warmer, but there were also times when the Earth was glaciated despite vastly higher levels of carbon dioxide. That record seems to violate the one-to-one correspondence between more greenhouse gases and higher temperatures."

yeah, because that's a widely held position...

i am interested in which episodes of glaciation occurred with 'vastly higher' co2 levels. at a guess, i'd say he's talking about the really old ones, back before we got all this 'oxygen' in the atmosphere. which really doesn't make for much in the way of a good comparison, even if the mechanics today were a totally mystery (which they aren't).

a quick web o' science search doesn't turn up much of interest when it comes to climatology from him, btw.

I checked the link...WTF the guy was a geologist what does he know about Climatology?....if have I heart problems who do I believe is going to give me the best advice, a Cardiologist or a dentist....

Blaming the United States for attacking their 'human rights' probably won't win them any sympathy however.

...I lol'ed for real.

Of course it will...if they had blamed anyone else, we wouldn't have even heard about it.

:rolleyes:

"Global warming" has been happening for the past 18,000 years since the last massive ice age. It's estimated the large ice ages occur between 15,000-20,000 years normally marked by even warmer periods before they happen. The ice caps begin to melt, raising the ocean level, and covering parts of the land. Afterwards the climate cools and that ices over but the planet will warm once again starting at the equator causing the ice caps to retreat.

That being said, this climate change is normal and natural. Humans do have a slight impact but we don't make much of a difference either way. People are having the "chicken little" syndrome and although it's understanding to be worried about the planet changing us spending time and money on trying to stop such things is frivolous. However, it IS a good idea to try and keep what we can control healthy but using "global warming" propaganda to achieve it just sounds foolish.

Climate change is indeed normal and natural. This particular case of climate change, however, is not. CO2 concentrations are twice what they have been at any point in the past 800,000 years. Temperature has been demonstrated to closely adhere to CO2 concentrations. All the data is out there, confirmed by numerous independent studies, freely available to anyone who looks for it, and easily assembled into the same graph that more and more people see today. This is far different from the natural fluctuations that remain within certain limits and are therefore self-regulating. This is (to the best of our knowledge) unprecedented, in large part because the fluctuation has been caused by the large-scale reintroduction of carbon that had been removed from the system. The modern climate change situation may or may not be the unmitigated catastrophe a few people claim is to come, but the consensus is that its effects will be much more harmful than beneficial. Our "slight impact" is proving to be anything but.

Air pollution is really easy to find. Hard to enforce.
Too bad the Industries around the globe have no conforming standards.
Perhaps Canada could be a initiative leader in a Global Solution, reducing
emmissions. Canada has tough laws, but maybe not tough enough.
Maybe mankind will drop the greed long enough to watch Dr. Seuss' Lorax.

straight up tons of co2. or were we talking about something other than changing the composition of the atmosphere?
Now you're treating national boundaries as arbitrary lines. Some co2 production is going to happen, so I'm going to criticise first the people who produce co2 frivolously, and that's the Chinese. At least Americans are doing something productive when they produce emissions.

Now you're treating national boundaries as arbitrary lines. Some co2 production is going to happen, so I'm going to criticise first the people who produce co2 frivolously, and that's the Chinese. At least Americans are doing something productive when they produce emissions.

produce co2 frivolously...how does one produce CO2 frivolously?....are there gangs of Chinese grandma's setting fire to things for the kick of producing excessive CO2? heating their homes with coal perhaps...the Chinese are deliberately going for pointless cruises in their SUV's to produce more frivolous CO2, oh wait.....sorry, that's a North American past-time

Now you're treating national boundaries as arbitrary lines.

seems to me as if i am treating them exactly as the state demands they be treated

Some co2 production is going to happen, so I'm going to criticise first the people who produce co2 frivolously, and that's the Chinese. At least Americans are doing something productive when they produce emissions.

when somebody is pouring mercury into the drinking water, claiming they were doing something productive with it is not a defense.

I checked the link...WTF the guy was a geologist what does he know about Climatology?....if have I heart problems who do I believe is going to give me the best advice, a Cardiologist or a dentist....

well, technically he does seem to have done some work in paleoclimatology. and a one-off paper that has only been cited once (and that was by another paper by him) on short term variability of atmospheric co2.

What about the emissions of other nations? I guess that's ok?

of course not. but you always go for the big point sources first and deal with the small fries later. especially when the big point source bears such a huge percentage of the blame by themselves.

What about the emissions of other nations? I guess that's ok?

Here Here!

Some co2 production is going to happen...

not if we do it right

Here Here!

As we all know, only the emissions from the US cross borders and violate peoples' rights.

Everyone else's emissions stay well within their borders, choking their own people to death.

What about the emissions of other nations? I guess that's ok?

It depends on where the wind comes from the other nations emissions don't go to North Canada.

It depends on where the wind comes from the other nations emissions don't go to North Canada.

O RLY.

The emissions from the US go all the way to Africa and Europe.

Are you telling me that China and Russia have no emissions that go to Canada. None from Japan?

Whilst I have nothing but contempt for the USA's environmental record, frankly these people should be suing...
... the human race.:eek:

Whilst I have nothing but contempt for the USA's environmental record, frankly these people should be suing...
... the human race.:eek:

"Tomorrow, the trial of the century begins! Everyone vs. everyone."

when somebody is pouring mercury into the drinking water, claiming they were doing something productive with it is not a defense.
I'd rather they pollute while doing something useful than pollute for no reason.

So yes, claiming they were doing something useful is a mitigating factor.

O RLY.

The emissions from the US go all the way to Africa and Europe.

Are you telling me that China and Russia have no emissions that go to Canada. None from Japan?
You'd honestly be shocked if there turned out to be a hole in global pollution at the Earth's poles? Because that's where northern Canada is.

So yes, claiming they were doing something useful is a mitigating factor.

no. it isn't. this is just basic responsibility for ones actions.

if what you do harms others, then saying "yeah, but look at all this money i made" is no excuse at all - in fact, it would probably count against you. the harm still happened, and you still bear responsibility for it. maybe the amount of money you made is so high that you thought it was worth it, but you have no grounds to complain when the wronged party forces restitution out of you.

You'd honestly be shocked if there turned out to be a hole in global pollution at the Earth's poles? Because that's where northern Canada is.

not sure what you're trying to say here....the north is the "canary in the coalmine" for the planet, what happens there first is what will happen everywhere else later...for some reason pollution concentrates in the polar areas, the arctic food chain is loaded with high levels of contaminates...

As a Canadian I would just like to tell those Nothern tax dollar stealing indians to shut up. I'm sick and tired of paying 8 billion for indian affairs each year. I say shut the whole damn department, who the hell wants to live in the arctic anyways, not me, ottawa is cold enough.

As a Canadian I would just like to tell those Nothern tax dollar stealing indians to shut up. I'm sick and tired of paying 8 billion for inidan affairs each year. I say shut the whole damn department, who the hell wants to live in the arctic anyways, not me, ottawa is cold enough.

Oh. No. You. Fucking. Didn't.

This is just for you, redneck (http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j315/crashcow/NSG/darksin01.jpg).

I honestly think you are beyond any further comment. Must be the inbreeding.

I'm sick and tired of paying 8 billion for inidan affairs each year.

Wow, YOU pay that?

Wow, YOU pay that?

*snickers*

What's worse...he's been making the cheque out to the wrong people all these years due to having failed spelling:

inidan affairsI wonder if Inidan Affairs is located in Nigeria?

The mines in the North are planning on an all winter road, since the winter road can only barely manage to service the two biggest mines, Ekati and Diavik...and there are nine more mine sites currently being constructed.

Billions of dollars for a road. And damn the environment.

Oh. No. You. Fucking. Didn't.

This is just for you, redneck (http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j315/crashcow/NSG/darksin01.jpg).

I honestly think you are beyond any further comment. Must be the inbreeding.

You shouldn't lower yourself that way. It isn't flattering and doesn't make a point really.

Whilst I have nothing but contempt for the USA's environmental record

To quote Gandalf, "You speak of what you do not know."

The US "environmental record" has been very successful in reducing pollution and in cleaning up polluted areas. Not to say it's been 100% effective, but air and water pollution levels have decreased substantially since the 1960's. Even in Southern California the number of first-stage smog alerts per year has fallen to almost zero.

Contrast this with, say, Russia's or India's or China's performance. I have personally experienced the dust and smoke pollution that emanates from China and blows all the way into South Korea at times. At one point when I was living in South Korea, I actually had to wear a surgical mask to be able to breathe without constantly coughing because of Chinese pollution. I have also traveled within China and seen first-hand the bad air pollution in places like Chongqing.

And as for the general subject of global warming, look at all CO2 producers rather than singling out one. Of course, this assumes that you are someone who's honestly concerned about the issue rather than just another mouthy Americaphobe.

Don't these natives understand that when it becomes tropical where they are Americans will want to buy vacations homes? Then they can build a casino and make some real money. Joking aside I think this is a way to try and get money for "damages". Global warming has not been proven without a doubt linked to humans. Some would even argue if it is happening at all. So these guys have already decided it's all America's fault.

Arctic Canadians say U.S. emissions violate human rightshttp://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/americas/03/01/us.canada.climate.ap/index.html

Also America's fault somehow.
http://www.windows.ucar.edu/tour/link=/earth/climate/medieval_warm_period.html

The US may violate countless human rights, but I don't think this one of them. China and India pollute worse than the US.

You shouldn't lower yourself that way. It isn't flattering and doesn't make a point really.

Oh please.

Like I give a shit, what he or YOU for that matter, think.

If you don't care what anyone else thinks including my supposedly redneck inbred self, than why do you even bother to come on here. This is a place where people post what they think, especially in a thread like this. So if this is the case maybe you should do something else with your time. I don't get the point of the photo you sent me. It seemed to have the wrong type of Indian in it, the IndiAN I was referring to was the north american indian (I thought it was pretty obvious but I guess not), not someone from India. So if you're from Indian or an East Indian, sorry, I wasn't trying to slight you.

Canadian shit don't stink either......

Of course not. Nothing stinks in a freezer.

Of course not. Nothing stinks in a freezer.

Canada's really not as cold as you guys in the States think, we just measure temperature in degrees Celcius.

Oh please.

Like I give a shit, what he or YOU for that matter, think.

Someone with issues I see. Can't learn to be civil and talk without using profanity? Shows what kind of person you are.

If you don't care what anyone else thinks including my supposedly redneck inbred self, than why do you even bother to come on here. This is a place where people post what they think, especially in a thread like this. So if this is the case maybe you should do something else with your time. I don't get the point of the photo you sent me. It seemed to have the wrong type of Indian in it, the IndiAN I was referring to was the north american indian (I thought it was pretty obvious but I guess not), not someone from India. So if you're from Indian or an East Indian, sorry, I wasn't trying to slight you.

You didn't get the picture, because you don't speak Cree.

No, I'm an Indian with a feather, not a dot.

And since all your post did was outline your moronic racism, I really didn't feel like educating you on the matter...I've spent a lot of effort on this board doing just that...but someone as lost as you are isn't really worth my time.

Go ahead, consider my INUIT cousins to be...how did you put it? "Nothern tax dollar stealing indians". If you actually want to have a discussion on the issue, I'm there. But right now, I think you're just bitching with your moniyaw arrogance because you figure there are no Indians here that will take you to task for it.

Someone with issues I see. Can't learn to be civil and talk without using profanity? Shows what kind of person you are.

Save it, Marrakech. I think most Generalites are well acquainted with the kind of person I am. I'm more than capable of a good, civilised debate...but when someone marches in with their blatant racism and expect a pat on the back, they'll get my foot in their teeth for their trouble. Because that's all it's worth.

Canada's really not as cold as you guys in the States think, we just measure temperature in degrees Celcius.

ha!

not if we do it right
No, it's the result of a simple chemical reaction. There is no way around it. If you burn anything containing carbon or even breathe you will expell carbon in the form of CO2. You cannot get rid of it. Putting it in the ground is like burying garbage and then saying it's not a problem anymore. It's like killing the buffalo, cutting the tongue, then leaving the rest to rot.

If you plant a bunch of trees to try to offset your carbon emission they'll evetually die and rot, releasing hydrocarbons. Burying it in the ground is a waste of a perfectly good resource. Did you ever consider the potential agricultural benefits and uses of this substance?

If you want to do something about it then figure out a way to actually use it. Use every part of the buffalo. Buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo.

Also, you can't always fine-tune everything. Some things are just beyond your control, the sooner you accept that the better off you'll be.

If you plant a bunch of trees to try to offset your carbon emission they'll evetually die and rot, releasing hydrocarbons.

but not all at once, and not without being replaced by living plant matter. as for burying it, well, that's where it was before.

What about China? If there's anyone who deserves criticism for egregious disregard of human rights and environmental pollution, it's them.

Pound for pound, US emissions are nothing compared to the stuff being cranked out in India or China. Hell, even Canada probably produces more CO2 per capita because of their lack of fuel economy standards and the oil industry...I think their problems are being produced closer to home.
Yeah....yeah....pass da buck..... :p

Environment Statistics > CO2 Emissions (per capita) by country (http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/env_co2_emi_percap-environment-co2-emissions-per-capita)

#5 United States: 19.4839 per 1,000 people

#9 Canada: 15.8941 per 1,000 people

#80 China: 2.65908 per 1,000 people

#113 India: 0.933086 per 1,000 people

Things that go bump in the night......Vetalia theorizing?? :p

Billions of dollars for a road. And damn the environment.
The environment is what we make it. The pre-development state has no intrinsic value.