NationStates Jolt Archive

Right now, I'm 16, and I work in the Co-Op in my village. Unfortunately, the age to sell alcohol is 18. We sell a lot of alcohol, and half the village seems to drink a bottle of wine a day. When I serve a customer alcohol, my supervisor has to drop whatever she is doing, come up to the till, put in her code, and go back to her job. At busy times, they may be up and down the shop continuously, serving alcohol. I've always thought this to be pointless and ineffective, and it would make much more sense to drop the age to sell alcohol to 16. This would making working in stores like mine much easier, as there isn't the pointless running up and down the store front, hindering and stopping work. Thoughts and opinions?

Well, the drinking age by itself is much to high.

Right now, I'm 16, and I work in the Co-Op in my village. Unfortunately, the age to sell alcohol is 18. We sell a lot of alcohol, and half the village seems to drink a bottle of wine a day. When I serve a customer alcohol, my supervisor has to drop whatever she is doing, come up to the till, put in her code, and go back to her job. At busy times, they may be up and down the shop continuously, serving alcohol. I've always thought this to be pointless and ineffective, and it would make much more sense to drop the age to sell alcohol to 16. This would making working in stores like mine much easier, as there isn't the pointless running up and down the store front, hindering and stopping work. Thoughts and opinions?

Lower the age to sell alcohol... and drink it while we're at it.

Banning things only makes them more popular to the 'rouges' (ones who don't obey the parental/governmental/etc. dogma) of the teenagers (which is a lot of them).

Then you'd get lots of 16 year old school children selling alcohol to their other 16 year old school friends.

Even if that doesn't bother you, it will bother the shops, as they will be fined for selling the alcohol to under-age drinkers, and then they will stop taking on 16 year olds as too much of a risk. Then you're out of a job.

Germany has it at 16. I say let's keep it there, they do fine.

18's not that high. In fact its okay with me. Now unlike some American place with 21...what kind of crazy age is that?!

Hmm, but what's the point of allowing people to work at 16 if they can't sell a good deal of the products sold? This law doesn't just include alcohol - it includes shoe polish and safety matches as well. It's all very ineffective. And I think 21's just pathetic. I'm partly glad I don't live in the US.

18's not that high. In fact its okay with me. Now unlike some American place with 21...what kind of crazy age is that?!

You can sell alcohol at 18 here (with a liquor license) but not drink it until you are 21, which is interesting because I had a friend who had his liquor license at 18, but when he lost his job at the restaurant had trouble finding another because he was too young to go apply at a bar. :p

I believe the reasoning behind not having people under the age of 18 selling alcohol is that it is thought that those of that age would be much more likely to sell alcohol to minors (their friends especially).

I believe the reasoning behind not having people under the age of 18 selling alcohol is that it is thought that those of that age would be much more likely to sell alcohol to minors (their friends especially).

If we DO sell booze to a minor, we get an £80 on the spot fine, and we could get taken to court for a possible £2000 fine. And we can judge whether someone is 18 or not - and £2000 and your job is not worth your friends having a drink or two.

Then you'd get lots of 16 year old school children selling alcohol to their other 16 year old school friends.

Even if that doesn't bother you, it will bother the shops, as they will be fined for selling the alcohol to under-age drinkers, and then they will stop taking on 16 year olds as too much of a risk. Then you're out of a job.

Like I said - we get an £80 on the spot fine and a possible £2000 fine further. And we get sacked. That isn't worth your friends having a drink or two, like I said.

Speaking of age 21 in the US:

I can be forced to fight and die for my country, addict myself to cigarettes and provide them to minors, buy pornography and give it to minors, be tried as an adult for any crimes I commit, buy a house, car, or rent an apartment, get a credit card, and serve in the House of Representatives...

...and yet I can't buy alcohol. That makes no sense at all; if you're going to confer adult responsibility at age 18, you should confer all adult privileges at age 18.

Speaking of age 21 in the US:

I can be forced to fight and die for my country, addict myself to cigarettes and provide them to minors, buy pornography and give it to minors, be tried as an adult for any crimes I commit, buy a house, car, or rent an apartment, get a credit card, and serve in the House of Representatives...

...and yet I can't buy alcohol. That makes no sense at all; if you're going to confer adult responsibility at age 18, you should confer all adult privileges at age 18.

I always found it strange how you could get married at 16, but couldn't have a drink at your own reception party.

I always found it strange how you could get married at 16, but couldn't have a drink at your own reception party.

Yeah, that one's a mystery. Actually, if it weren't for the Federal government forcing the age-21 limit on to states back in the 80's we would still have drinking ages of 18 or 19.

Maybe, just maybe, we should develop a culture that teaches responsible alcohol consumption from an early age...that seems to work pretty damn well in Europe.

I think you should be able to drink at even 10 or 12 with a parent supervising(my kids started at that age) a glass of wine and such, not getting shit-faced drunk....

legally without parents 16, I wouldn't let them drive a car until they're 18 that gives them two years to learn to drink responsibly before they get behind the wheel of a car......

legally without parents 16, I wouldn't let them drive a car until they're 18 that gives them two years to learn to drink responsibly before they get behind the wheel of a car......

I agree. I mean, I love getting drunk as much as anyone, but I know damn well not to get behind the wheel or allow someone else to do the same while I'm in that state.

If we DO sell booze to a minor, we get an £80 on the spot fine, and we could get taken to court for a possible £2000 fine. And we can judge whether someone is 18 or not - and £2000 and your job is not worth your friends having a drink or two.

You'd have to get caught first off and your boss would have to care as well. I'm sure many owners wouldn't mind selling alcohol to anyone as it is quite profitable.

You'd have to get caught first off and your boss would have to care as well. I'm sure many owners wouldn't mind selling alcohol to anyone as it is quite profitable.

You have no idea how bad it looks on a boss. They take it VERY seriously. And you do have to get caught first, but the police often send in people to test you. If you fail, pay up.

I think you should be able to drink at even 10 or 12 with a parent supervising(my kids started at that age) a glass of wine and such, not getting shit-faced drunk....

l

You can (in the UK at least) at home or with a meal.
There is also a little known law that states that "beer may be given to a person over the age of 2 years in a beer garden, but that aforementioned person may not purchase said intoxicant". They haven't repealed it so technically you can supply beer to any kid who wants it so long as they're in a beer garden. Wouldn't want to chance it though...

I started to click on the poll option featuring the number eighteen, then I realized this was for the British. Go ahead and drop it to sixteen if you want. I don't care.

As for the U.S., we should also drop the drinking age, to eighteen. It's the age for literally everything else prohibited to a minor, so the drinking age should be lowered to that age too.

You have no idea how bad it looks on a boss. They take it VERY seriously. And you do have to get caught first, but the police often send in people to test you. If you fail, pay up.

I'm surprised your police force has the time to test store owners on who they sell alcohol to.

I'm surprised your police force has the time to test store owners on who they sell alcohol to.

Ha! Our Police force has time to track down and punish everything that is a serious threat to society, from little old ladies doing 33mph in a 30 zone, to investigating whether some thick oaf on TV shouting at an Indian is racist.

They achieved this remarkable ability by cutting out investigating the unimportant things that used to waste so much of their time; muggings, rapes, burglaries, etc...

I started to click on the poll option featuring the number eighteen, then I realized this was for the British. Go ahead and drop it to sixteen if you want. I don't care.

As for the U.S., we should also drop the drinking age, to eighteen. It's the age for literally everything else prohibited to a minor, so the drinking age should be lowered to that age too.

Yeah, 21 is just silly .I would have been a responsible drinker at 16 or younger, because I don't have complete dumbasses for parents. So what we need to do? If somebody is too stupid to raise kids, they must not be allowed to keep them.

I'm surprised your police force has the time to test store owners on who they sell alcohol to.

Trust me, the phrase "go catch some real criminals" comes to mind.

Yeah, 21 is just silly .I would have been a responsible drinker at 16 or younger, because I don't have complete dumbasses for parents. So what we need to do? If somebody is too stupid to raise kids, they must not be allowed to keep them.

You can't decide who does or doesn't keep kids. But that's off topic, so leave it for another thread please.

They achieved this remarkable ability by cutting out investigating the unimportant things that used to waste so much of their time; muggings, rapes, burglaries, etc...
Yes, because it's got nothing to do with the fact there are more police officers available then there have been for 20 years, or the fact that crime rates have been falling...:rolleyes:

in Poland, there is only an age for purchasing alcohol. there is no drinking age.

Ha! Our Police force has time to track down and punish everything that is a serious threat to society, from little old ladies doing 33mph in a 30 zone, to investigating whether some thick oaf on TV shouting at an Indian is racist.

They achieved this remarkable ability by cutting out investigating the unimportant things that used to waste so much of their time; muggings, rapes, burglaries, etc...

Trust me, the phrase "go catch some real criminals" comes to mind.

I guess police forces around the world are similar in their priorities. :(

Yes, because it's got nothing to do with the fact there are more police officers available then there have been for 20 years, or the fact that crime rates have been falling...:rolleyes:

The British Crime Survey, regarded as the most reliable measure of crime by the Home Office, said the risk [of being a victim of crime] had risen one percentage point to 24.3%

Vandalism: Up 11%
Domestic burglary: Down 4%
All vehicle thefts: No change
Thefts from the person: Up 14%
Violent crime: Up 2%
All crime: Up 4%


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/6297715.stm

Banning things only makes them more popular to the 'rouges' ...

The 'pinks'?

The 'pinks'?

actually it would translate to reds.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/6297715.stm

Crime in England and Wales peaked in 1995, and since then has fallen by 44% according to the BCS.

http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/rds/pdfs06/crime0506summ.pdf

If we DO sell booze to a minor, we get an £80 on the spot fine, and we could get taken to court for a possible £2000 fine. And we can judge whether someone is 18 or not - and £2000 and your job is not worth your friends having a drink or two.

Aren't pounds .. about two American dollars?

Thats kinda easy. People of age here can go to jail for selling to a minor like me.

I really think the drinking age shouldn't be below 18. Its 21 in the states and some people think its a long ways to wait. I say it should be around 19 or 20. But who cares we get alcohol anyways.

You guys are forgetting that your brain stops developing at 20 or 21 for most people. Drinking stops brain growth. You people can wait to have beer for a few more years can't you? Or would you rather be stupider?

http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/rds/pdfs06/crime0506summ.pdf

So it started to fall under the Conservatives, and is now on the rise again under Labour.

Hmm, but what's the point of allowing people to work at 16 if they can't sell a good deal of the products sold? This law doesn't just include alcohol - it includes shoe polish and safety matches as well. It's all very ineffective. And I think 21's just pathetic. I'm partly glad I don't live in the US.

Yeah, I live in Canada where the drinking age is 18. And always felt that the U.S making the drinking age 21 was just dumb, I mean an 18 year old in the states can legally watch porno, star in a porno, receive the death penalty, drive a car, pilot an airplane, vote, get drafted into the army. At 18 in America you're considered mature enough to be given a gun and forced to go fight a war in some god forsaken part of the world, but your still not mature enough to consume alcohol.

actually it would translate to reds.

It would translate from the french as such, yes, but in english it commonly refers to make-up which is either red or pink.

So it started to fall under the Conservatives, and is now on the rise again under Labour.

Not really. You need more than one year of increases before you can say it's any more than just a blip.
It fell most between 1997 - 2005.

And if you were to really make it a political point, it should be noted that it rose dramatically between 1981 - 1995, a time with no Labour government.

Ha! Our Police force has time to track down and punish everything that is a serious threat to society, from little old ladies doing 33mph in a 30 zone, to investigating whether some thick oaf on TV shouting at an Indian is racist.

They achieved this remarkable ability by cutting out investigating the unimportant things that used to waste so much of their time; muggings, rapes, burglaries, etc...

Question 1: Does driving above the speed limit increase the risk of fatal accident?

Question 2: Which kills more in the UK per annum - violent crime or road death?

Question 1: Does driving above the speed limit increase the risk of fatal accident?

Question 2: Which kills more in the UK per annum - violent crime or road death?

1. No. An 'accident' is something that, by its very nature, cannot be foreseen or prevented.

2. Is it possible to have a road system that doesn't result in some casualties? How many of these road deaths are directly attributable to speed, as opposed to dangerous driving, or pure accidents?

1. No. An 'accident' is something that, by its very nature, cannot be foreseen or prevented.

So what is the point of speed limits if they have nothing to do with accident prevention?

So what is the point of speed limits if they have nothing to do with accident prevention?

Speed limits are an arbitrary number, designed to stop you driving at another number. 'Speed' is not something that kills; it is just a concept of measuring how quickly you are travelling. What kills is dangerous driving; this may be driving too quickly for the circumstances, but, equally, it may be spending an age staring at your speedometer because the road is lined with cameras, or driving so slowly that the people behind you start to do stupid things in frustration.

Someone charging past a school at three o clock in the afternoon at 70 mph is someone who should be punished; someone going past a camera at 33mph on a quiet, wide road at 3 in the morning is someone the law should ignore.

I always found it strange how you could get married at 16, but couldn't have a drink at your own reception party.

I have had 2 friends who could not drink at their own weddings ... it seemed silly to me,

Hell one is married, owns a house makes 50,000 USD a year job and are planning on a kid and still could not drink if they wanted to

a) kids drink alcohol at 16 anyways

b) you want kids to have as much exposure to it as possible before they start driving, so they have a better understanding of what alcohol does to them.

There isn't an option of "Raise it to 21". The lowering the age of adulthood to 18 was one I campaigned for when the draft was at 18 and so was I. That was a mistake. The age of adulthood should have been kept at 21. I know most of the kids on this forum will disagree and claim to be adults at 18. That is because they are thinking as children (as I was at that age). When they reach adulthood and look back, they will wonder why the age isn't really 25.

Hell one is married, owns a house and are planning on a kid and still could not drink if they wanted to

And all of that should wait for 21 also.

Speed limits are an arbitrary number, designed to stop you driving at another number. 'Speed' is not something that kills; it is just a concept of measuring how quickly you are travelling. What kills is dangerous driving; this may be driving too quickly for the circumstances, but, equally, it may be spending an age staring at your speedometer because the road is lined with cameras, or driving so slowly that the people behind you start to do stupid things in frustration.

Someone charging past a school at three o clock in the afternoon at 70 mph is someone who should be punished; someone going past a camera at 33mph on a quiet, wide road at 3 in the morning is someone the law should ignore.

The main "circumstance" is the road which is engineered for a certain speed. There are very few trips where a few mph/kph is going to make any difference. If the trip is that important, start out a few minutes sooner. Unless you are going a long distance, faster travel will seldom yeild more than a few minutes.

You can already buy beer legally at the age of 16.

Wine, wine-like beverages and hard liquor are legal from 18 on.

I think it's retarded that the US has a drinking age of 21 while you Brits can drink at 18. :mad:

And all of that should wait for 21 also.

Why?

Lower the age to sell alcohol... and drink it while we're at it.

Banning things only makes them more popular to the 'rouges' (ones who don't obey the parental/governmental/etc. dogma) of the teenagers (which is a lot of them).
That's true...by making something illegal, you only make it more popular because that is the case.
My opinion is that if you can vote, die for your country, buy cigarettes, and do all of the other stuff you're allowed to do at the age of 18, then you should be able to drink at the age of 18. But, that's just me.

Lower the age to sell alcohol... and drink it while we're at it.

Banning things only makes them more popular to the 'rouges' (ones who don't obey the parental/governmental/etc. dogma) of the teenagers (which is a lot of them).
That's true...just by making something illegal, you make people want to try it all the more because it is illegal.
In my opinion, if you can vote, die for your country, smoke, and do all the other stuff you can do when you turn 18, then you should be allowed to drink. In my mind, it's ridiculous to confer on 18 year olds some of the priviledges of adults, while at the same time excluding others. But that's just me.

Sixteen? I say children of 12 should be free to drink beer & wine, under parental supervision.

Why?

Statistically the longer someone waits to get married and have a child the longer the marriage will last, the better the children will do. That does not apply to an individual situation but to an average. You can find an exception, but it is an exception. A person goes through a lot of growth between 18 and 25. When I was 18 I knew I was real mature also, but as I look back, as you will sometime look back, at 18 the majority are immature and rather stupid about life.

Sixteen? I say children of 12 should be free to drink beer & wine, under parental supervision.

I grew up in a German community. They would put beer in a baby bottle and give it to a fussy baby. Calmed them right down.

In some states it's legal to give someone under 18 (or 21 for that matter) alcohol with adult supervision already. My state being one of those.

In my state they put a sign on the lane of somone under the age of 18 which tells people who are purchasing alcohol they may not go through that line.

I do think the age to consume alcohol should be 18 for the earlier stated fact that one can sign up and die for their country at that age. I also think that in a private home it should be the right of the parent to provide a drink if they choose to their child for the holidays, a family dinner whatever reason, but that those same adolescents should not be allowed to drink without same said parents present.

I think it depends to a large extent on the prevailing drinking culture among young adults (20+)... in New Zealand, and presumably Australia also, there is a big problem with binge-drinking among our youth.

We lowered the drinking age from 20 to 18 a few years ago, based on the argument that the 18 year olds would procure alcohol anyway; they could get married and go to war; etc. etc. (I admit I supported the change at the time).

It was arguably a disaster. Now teenagers as young as 12 procure and drink alcohol, so we are in much the same situation as before in terms of legality, except that the offenders are 2-4 years younger.

Yet I see that in other cultures around the world, people as young as 16 can purchase alcohol without a problem. So it would seem to be a cultural issue.

Sure. Over here, under 18s are allowed to sell cigarettes anyway.

Abolish the drinking age altogether and let five-year olds buy alcohol if they want to.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/6297715.stm

Alcohol doesn't cause violence or crime. Violent people cause violence and criminals cause crime. It just so happens that the sort of people who are irresponsible enough to drink over the limit are also irresponsible enough to commit acts of violence.

Yeah here in 'Merica its freaking 21, thats insane. It should be 18 or even lower....really.

18's not that high. In fact its okay with me. Now unlike some American place with 21...what kind of crazy age is that?!

That's everywhere in the US. Funnily enough, it's not a Federal law as most Americans seem to think, but every state sets it at 21. However, the reason they all set it at 21 is because Uncle Sam threatens to not give them money to maintain their highways otherwise. Some years ago Louisiana tried to set the age to buy at 21 and age to drink at 18, but the Fed immediately started making its threats.

Speed limits on the freeway are the same thing. If it's higher than 75mph you get screwed.

Abolish the drinking age altogether and let five-year olds buy alcohol if they want to.

I like your style.

In most of the US, you have to be 19 to buy beer, and 21 to buy alcohol.

Ok, so, at the age of 18 you are considered an adult, you can vote, you can sign legal contracts, you can be drafted and sent to fight for your country; but you cannot buy a beer or a drink? Just another stupid senless way in which the federal government uses their "one size fits all" approach. Of course, the federal government did not tell the states to pass those restrictions; but the ones that would not would loose all federal funding.

In most of the US, you have to be 19 to buy beer, and 21 to buy alcohol.

Ok, so, at the age of 18 you are considered an adult, you can vote, you can sign legal contracts, you can be drafted and sent to fight for your country; but you cannot buy a beer or a drink? Just another stupid senless way in which the federal government uses their "one size fits all" approach. Of course, the federal government did not tell the states to pass those restrictions; but the ones that would not would loose all federal funding.
Yeah, and what state is going to risk that? The fact of the matter is, if teens want to drink alcohol badly enough, they are going to find a way to do so, be it legal or otherwise.

Yeah, and what state is going to risk that? The fact of the matter is, if teens want to drink alcohol badly enough, they are going to find a way to do so, be it legal or otherwise.

Too bad the other States will not do what Utah did in the 70's, when the threat of highway funds was the carrot for the 55 MPH limit. Utah told the feds go ahead and keep the money. The fed money is designated for construction and upkeep of the interstate and US highway system, and that Utah would not spend a single cent of their money on the US highways.

Of course, it only lasted a couple of years, when the new Governor was elected and imposed the 55 speed limit. If most of the States had the cojones to do that, the feds could not threaten us anymore.

Vic

In most of the US, you have to be 19 to buy beer, and 21 to buy alcohol.

Beer != alcohol?

Beer != alcohol?

He's talking about American beer, which isn't for drinking. ;)

He's talking about American beer, which isn't for drinking. ;)

I've never tried American beer.

I've never tried beer at all, American or otherwise.

I hear that it tastes gross, though.

I've never tried American beer.

I've never tried beer at all, American or otherwise.

I hear that it tastes gross, though.

It doesn't. Shit beer tastes gross, but that's to be expected (I usually won't complain anyway if the price is right...).

18 is fine

Germany has it at 16. I say let's keep it there, they do fine.In this side of the pond.. you are allowed have sex with anyone you like.. 4 years before you are allowed to taste beer.. (with the exception of some states)

I'd say to INCREASE the drinking age to the point where people don't get drunk and cause problems, but that'd probably be in the mid-50's... >_>

To be honest, does anyone pay any attention to the law? Seriously, I've been frinking since I was 12, got drunk at 14 and I've been buying alchol from the Spar since I was 15-fake Id...