NationStates Jolt Archive

I've found, that interacting with people from other cultures, that it's never the big things that are a shock, it's the little things. And when I mean 'other cultures', it can even be people from other provinces, or perhaps even specific family cultures.

For example. I used to think my in-laws were so bloody rude for not taking their shoes off in my house. It was the most offensive thing EVER! They didn't even notice it was a problem because I just quietly fumed. And then I went to Chile, where most of the homes have cement floors, and where most people don't take their shoes off inside...they just make sure their shoes are clean. A little light went off in my head that said, 'Hey! What's normal, and right for them, is not what's normal and right for me...so they aren't deliberately being rude, they just didn't notice!'

So I stopped fuming, and explained that in my culture, you take your shoes off. Problem fixed.

Another example, from my Chilean experience. When eating at my in-laws, everyone would fill their plates, and I thought they were such pigs! Because I'd take a little, to make sure everyone had enough...with the idea that

a) I had to eat everything on my plate and;
b) If I was still hungry, perhaps there would be enough for seconds.

Instead, there would be no food left, as they served it ALL out...and I'd starve. It took ages to talk about it...they thought I was incredibly rude, dissing their food by taking so little! And I thought they were rude for piggishly filling their plates all at once.

So? What kinds of cultural assumptions have you made that have been challenged?

People where you live don't take their shoes off in the house, Smunkee?

That still seems so weird to me!

Another weird one...British people who eat pancakes with sugar and lemon.

It's good...but so odd...I never would have thought of it!

This is kind of a little one...

When I was younger my dad remarried to someone from his home country in South America. We got along okay but what rankled me was whenever she asked me to do her a favor, she phrased it (in Spanish) "Please go get me that item and don't be a bad boy." Which usually wround here when somebody says that to you, it's because they expect the worst and are asking you not to do it like that. I spoke to my dad and he explaiend to me that it was not meant that way at all, that it's like someone here in the USA sayin "Be a good boy and get me that item." with no negative connotations.

Kinda strange because when you think about it, the phrasing isn't really that different, but the meanings we attach to the positive/negative perspective carries a huge amount of meaning.

My husband got into the habit when he lived in Japan of taking his shoes off when he entered a house, so at our house we always take them off, and it's gotten to the point that it annoys me, when people don't.

However, it's considered rude here (in my local area) to take your shoes off at someone's house.....in fact it's almost the same as taking off your pants, since socks are regarded like they were underwear, it's even worse to be barefoot.

I have a friend from Canada, who before I met my husband would always take her shoes off when she came to my house, and it bothered me then, but now it doesn't, since I have "switched sides" on the debate. :p

Other than that we are all pretty homogeneous here as long as you are native to the region, but when I moved out west, things got weird......I couldn't find but one restaurant with iced tea, nobody knew what cream gravy was, and they looked at me funny when I asked about it.

There is a fast food restaurant here named "Sonic" and they make soda however you want it, so around here you can go in and get a Cherry Vanilla Dr. Pepper, and it's fine, it's normal, when I lived in AZ we found a Sonic, so I would go and order my Cherry Vanilla Dr. Pepper (this was before it was bottled that way) and they would look at me like I had grown a second head...I asked one time, and they explained that I was the only person they had ever heard of that drank that.....in fact, they thought it sounded horrible. I found out after living there for a while that the staple drink at Sonic was a chocolate strawberry coke......so I started ordering those, and they were good, but when I came back to Oklahoma and ordered one, they thought I was crazy.........weird.

:p

I was raised to finish everything on my plate...to leave food was considered wasteful, or rude, as if someone had served you something that you though was worthy of being wasted.

So when I went to a Persian (Iranian) restaurant, the server kept refilling our tea and bringing us more (can't remember what it was called, pita bread served with loose herbs and a feta-like cheese -- it was very good). i must have had 6 cups of tea. Noone said anything, but we were all starting to feel a little pressured by all the food, so I finally said "thank you so much, but i couldn't possibly eat any more" and he said "but when you empty your plate, that tells me you are still hungry, so i'll bring more."

it was a cool little cultural lesson. and two well flushed kidneys.

However, it's considered rude here (in my local area) to take your shoes off at someone's house.....in fact it's almost the same as taking off your pants, since socks are regarded like they were underwear, it's even worse to be barefoot.

that seems really weird, what if it rains or their shoes are dusty, don't you have to clean a lot?

When I was a kid and we were at my grandparents' in England, I would dip my bread and jam into my cocoa, and my mother quickly explained to her parents that what I was doing wasn't considered rude in France. It had never occured to me that in some places it could be considered impolite. (Then again, I was five or six at the time.)

Conversely, growing up in France I was looked upon by other French kids as excessively polite. What with my British manners and all. :p

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May I ask where you're from? Japan?

The rule in my house when I was growing up was always shoes off. When I met my boyfriend's parents, back before we started dating, I took my shoes off at the door. They thought it was very weird, although they didn't say anything to me until later. Now I leave my shoes on at their house.

My mom grew up poor, without much furniture in her house, so she was used to sitting on the floor. She still does it often, and so when I was growing up it was more normal for me to sit on the floor than it was to sit on furniture. I still do this, but it doesn't offend people so much as make them think I'm very strange.

I went to middle school and high school in Europe, and it was normal for me to greet my friends with a kiss on the cheek regardless of their sex. I learned pretty quickly when I got to the US for university that this was NOT normal (EDIT: not normal in the sense that it wasn't the cultural norm). :p

Kinda strange because when you think about it, the phrasing isn't really that different, but the meanings we attach to the positive/negative perspective carries a huge amount of meaning.
On Spanish...

At first I was just shocked at the names people called each other...because when I translated the names into English, they were just offensive. Huaton/a (fatty), pelado/a (baldy), flaco/a (skinny) etc. But there were wives calling their husbands this, brothers calling sisters, grandparents calling grandchildren...and I finally just had to realise that they were terms of endearment, and not insults.

On Spanish...

At first I was just shocked at the names people called each other...because when I translated the names into English, they were just offensive. Huaton/a (fatty), pelado/a (baldy), flaco/a (skinny) etc. But there were wives calling their husbands this, brothers calling sisters, grandparents calling grandchildren...and I finally just had to realise that they were terms of endearment, and not insults.

On that issue... When I was in Cuba, someone in our group accidentally let the dog out of the home where he was staying, so we all went off looking for it. Unfortunately, for some bizarre reason the dog was called something that translated as "little old man" (Viejito?). So this guy was going around, calling the dog's name... and got insulted by several old men who thought he was calling them names. One of them got very angry. It was rather amusing. :D

From my my culture...you never refer to an elder by their first name. If they are related to you, you use the familial term. If they are not related, it's Mr. or Mrs. always. I always hated it when the parents of friends would ask me to call them by their first name...it was so uncomfortable, I just couldn't do it...much less when some friends called their parents by their names. Quite honestly, I didn't even KNOW my parent's names until I was probably 9 or 10.

It's carried over. I would never call a professor by their first name...but some students seem to revel in the familiarity.

My mom grew up poor, without much furniture in her house, so she was used to sitting on the floor. She still does it often, and so when I was growing up it was more normal for me to sit on the floor than it was to sit on furniture. I still do this, but it doesn't offend people so much as make them think I'm very strange.

When I first met my inlaws, after the greetings, I went to greet the children, (my little sister-and-law and niece who were both 3 at the time). They were nervous, since they rarely saw non-family members. So I sat down on the floor with them to be at their level, and chatted with them. My mother-in-law told me much later that they all thought it was the weirdest thing ever...(I didn't even notice that they stood there staring at me the whole time:D)they pay attention to kids of course, and you are supposed to greet them...but I basically ignored the adults for a bit so that the kids would be afraid of me during the whole visit. Sitting on the floor, and talking to the kids...totally normal for me, but very odd for them.

May I ask where you're from? Japan?

Canada, of First Nations ancestry.

I haven't once had a Canadian not remove their shoes in a house, though I can't speak for all corners of the country.

I wonder if it's because of our long winters and slushy springs? It's almost impossible during most times of the year to really clean your shoes off well, so you're going to be tracking in dirt.

that seems really weird, what if it rains or their shoes are dusty, don't you have to clean a lot?

they wipe their shoes outside, but unless they are very wet or muddy they keep them on. It's normal for people to have slippers at their own house so when you get home you change into them.

I still find it funny that in many places in the USA (and other places, presumably), using religious based words as expletives is considered highly offensive. I still laugh when I hear people object to me saying "Jesus Christie-shite bugger cock lordy lordy lordy fag."

It's carried over. I would never call a professor by their first name...but some students seem to revel in the familiarity.

Thanks for reminding me of that. I studied and taught in Australia for a year once, and that was a bit of a culture jolt. In France, relations between teacher and student are very formal. The student calls the teacher "monsieur" or "madame". But in Australia (I'm talking about university here), students were calling even senior lecturers by their first name. I couldn't do it. It would just have felt too strange. So I avoided calling them anything, except when I had to send an e-mail, in which I would always be very formal. My students in Australia called me by my first name too, but I could live with that.

Here in France, my students (who aren't all that much younger than I am) all call me "monsieur" (i.e. "sir"). Which just seems "natural". For them to call me by my first name would be unthinkable.

On that issue... When I was in Cuba, someone in our group accidentally let the dog out of the home where he was staying, so we all went off looking for it. Unfortunately, for some bizarre reason the dog was called something that translated as "little old man" (Viejito?). So this guy was going around, calling the dog's name... and got insulted by several old men who thought he was calling them names. One of them got very angry. It was rather amusing. :D

Holy crap my nerd alert is going off - DBZ references in my head.

Canada, of First Nations ancestry.

I haven't once had a Canadian not remove their shoes in a house, though I can't speak for all corners of the country.

Ah. In the states (at least where I live) you usually ask your host first if they want you to remove your shoes or not. From reading your post it sounded like you lived in Japan (shoes, table manners, etc.).

Around here no one takes their shoes out when going into someone´s elses home. That is considered rude and childish, since we usually hold that only kids run around barefooted.

Yet, there is a local buddhist temple that I go where they have slippers in the entrance, and you´re suposed to take your shoes out. In the begining, I found that a bit weird, but got used to it.

On Spanish...

At first I was just shocked at the names people called each other...because when I translated the names into English, they were just offensive. Huaton/a (fatty), pelado/a (baldy), flaco/a (skinny) etc. But there were wives calling their husbands this, brothers calling sisters, grandparents calling grandchildren...and I finally just had to realise that they were terms of endearment, and not insults.

there was a kid in my class when I was a preschool teacher who refused to answer to his name Gorge, he would only answer to gordo, and I didn't want to call him that, because I thought it was going to give him a complex, it took me a while to understand that I wasn't calling him something rude LOL

I don’t know if it’s a Cuban thing or a “this particular family” thing, but during introductions by my Cuban in-laws (in Spanish) I always seemed to be introduced as “his wife” where my husband and kids had actual names. He did this with other people, too, but I don’t know if it was just disrespect (from my cultural vantage point) or a convention. It did irk the hell out of me, though.

When I was a kid and we were at my grandparents' in England, I would dip my bread and jam into my cocoa, and my mother quickly explained to her parents that what I was doing wasn't considered rude in France. It had never occured to me that in some places it could be considered impolite. (Then again, I was five or six at the time.)

In France, on a school trip, a friend on mind had a bowl of cornflakes and an empty cup or glass, so he asked for milk and hot chocolate, expecting the former on his cornflakes and the latter as a drink. The French staff member assumed he wanted the opposite. I think he liked it better the French way though.

Holy crap my nerd alert is going off - DBZ references in my head.

The name is a DBZ reference? That would make it slightly less weird, I suppose...

In France, on a school trip, a friend on mind had a bowl of cornflakes and an empty cup or glass, so he asked for milk and hot chocolate, expecting the former on his cornflakes and the latter as a drink. The French staff member assumed he wanted the opposite. I think he liked it better the French way though.

We do both. I'd have expected the staff member to ask for clarification, though.

they wipe their shoes outside, but unless they are very wet or muddy they keep them on. It's normal for people to have slippers at their own house so when you get home you change into them.

oh that would work of course, here we normaly take our shoes of except for more formal stuff like family meetings and stuff or if you are taking them of and someone starts shouting "oh noez!! keep them on!!", then we keep them on, it's not really a big deal here.
most of the cultural weirdness i've encountered was related to language or food.
Italians, they make a lot of moves with their arms when talking (and phoning wich is kind of funny to me) and they also spend way more on clothing and way less on housing than us. they also live outside (that probably explains the above) on the streets, here it doesn't really happen that people come together on the street and play cardgames for instance (sad enough actually).
the Dutch always go on a holliday with a travel trailer, and their houses are really small and they all look the same, i wish we had organized our space a little bit like them.
and i guess the japanese have some really weird customs.

when I was in Hawaii, I went to a place with a sign that said it was the custom to remove one's shoes at the door.

I adopted that custom in my home and now everyone thats welcomed here is aware. We have polished hickory floors and I would be forced to kill anyone that walked in with dirty,wet shoes.
Accordingly, we keep the floors very clean and people dont have to worry about getting their socks dirty or wet-we have a good place at the entries to take off shoes and step to clean floors,even now in the wet,slushy winter.

I want to get a similar sign for my house.

As far as the customs issue-I pay close attention to everything and try to learn without making an issue. As a result,I've never really had an issue anywhere I've gone,aside from a laugh and conversation topic.

Two cultural assumptions to avoid:

there is a right way to smoke a filterless Camel cigarette in Turkey-
You have to light the end of a Camel cigarette with the crescent on it though. Dont light the other end,then snuff the still intact stub with crescent under your shoe while in Turkey. Apparently, its a serious crime.
Also-in Indonesia-if the cab you hire has an accident with someone else, you better grab your stuff and get away. Its your fault there,as you hired the cab. And dont assume you'd be innocent until proven guilty.
And dont assume they feed you in jail there either-you need to arrange for your own food and water while incarcerated.

We do both. I'd have expected the staff member to ask for clarification, though.

Maybe they did and he just didn't understand. I wasn't actually there, I just remember hearing and thinking "I'll have to try that for myself".

EDIT: I forgot to say that it was in the dining hall of a big place that all of the year's students were staying in.

I think most of my cultural assumptions have been thoroughly smashed.

I've lived in cultures where you are expected to offer an item three times before it is accepted, a culture where at the dinner table where if there isn't much food left then you are expected to offer the food to others, and they are expected to refuse and then you take the food for yourself.

I've lived in cultures where you are expected not to touch your food with your fingers at dinner. And cultures where no cultery is provided, but are expected to only use your right hand only.

I've lived in cultures where everyone is expected to make a speech at dinner, but it must be short. And I've lived in cultures where only the guests are expected to make a speech and that it must be long and thoughtful. Cultures where no speeches are expected.

Cultures where you must not leave food on your plate, and cultures where if you empty your plate it is refilled. Cultures where one is expected to bring food to a party, and cultures where it is an insult to bring any additional food or drink.

Cultures where you are expected to wait for everyone else to be served before starting your own food. Contrasted with cultures where it is rude not to start as soon as you are served.

A good rule of thumb is simply to observe what your hosts do and repeat.

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Here in France, my students (who aren't all that much younger than I am) all call me "monsieur" (i.e. "sir"). Which just seems "natural". For them to call me by my first name would be unthinkable.

Yes, it's very hard to break with formality if that's how you've been raised. But it's really also the safer way to go if you're not sure. Plus, it's not going to make the other person horribly uncomfortable if you're a little formal with them.

Teaching in aboriginal communities, it was never an issue, no student ever called my by my first name...except one, and only once, and because of the context it was both intended and received by all the other students as unforgivably rude. She might as well, in that context, have called me 'bitch'.

Teaching down south, in most non-aboriginal communities, I had way more kids wanting to call my by my first name. Luckily school policy was clear on forms of address. I'm sure I would have gotten over it, if they'd been allowed to be informal, but it didn't become an issue.

I don’t know if it’s a Cuban thing or a “this particular family” thing, but during introductions by my Cuban in-laws (in Spanish) I always seemed to be introduced as “his wife” where my husband and kids had actual names. He did this with other people, too, but I don’t know if it was just disrespect (from my cultural vantage point) or a convention. It did irk the hell out of me, though.

Yes, that is still done with me when I'm meeting someone new (among Chileans or other latinos), but it's not so odd to me. Because the people generally know my husband, or knew him back when, and it's a quick way to describe where I fit. I, however, tend to then introduce myself, which is generally expected as well.

Ha, you should see how we introduce one another among native people:) "This is so-and so's daughter...you know, the cousin of x, who lived up in Riviere Qui Barre but moved to Branford in the 80s? Her father's people come from the Peace region...you might know her father's brother's wife, she's the daughter of so-and-so from Saddle Lake."

Your whole family history is given until you find a common relation :D

I think most of my cultural assumptions have been thoroughly smashed.

I've lived in cultures where you are expected to offer an item three times before it is accepted, a culture where at the dinner table where if there isn't much food left then you are expected to offer the food to others, and they are expected to refuse and then you take the food for yourself.

I've lived in cultures where you are expected not to touch your food with your fingers at dinner. And cultures where no cultery is provided, but are expected to only use your right hand only.

I've lived in cultures where everyone is expected to make a speech at dinner, but it must be short. And I've lived in cultures where only the guests are expected to make a speech and that it must be long and thoughtful. Cultures where no speeches are expected.

Cultures where you must not leave food on your plate, and cultures where if you empty your plate it is refilled. Cultures where one is expected to bring food to a party, and cultures where it is an insult to bring any additional food or drink.

Cultures where you are expected to wait for everyone else to be served before starting your own food. Contrasted with cultures where it is rude not to start as soon as you are served.

A good rule of thumb is simply to observe what your hosts do and repeat.

so... what about non food related cultural assumptions? :p

Another weird one...British people who eat pancakes with sugar and lemon.

It's good...but so odd...I never would have thought of it!

I thought that was a French thing originally? But yeh, its awesome, the best way to have crepes.

I live in England, and I never assume either way about shoes, I just copy the host. In my experience you can do either, provided your shoes aren't dirty.

A good rule of thumb is simply to observe what your hosts do and repeat.

Yup, as you and Carn have pointed out, observation is key. It generally only becomes an issue when I encounter something odd in my own home, or I'm wanting to understand the why of something.

Then again, I've spent my whole life going back and forth between cultures.

I think most of my cultural assumptions have been thoroughly smashed.

I've lived in cultures where you are expected to offer an item three times before it is accepted, a culture where at the dinner table where if there isn't much food left then you are expected to offer the food to others, and they are expected to refuse and then you take the food for yourself.

I've lived in cultures where you are expected not to touch your food with your fingers at dinner. And cultures where no cultery is provided, but are expected to only use your right hand only.

I've lived in cultures where everyone is expected to make a speech at dinner, but it must be short. And I've lived in cultures where only the guests are expected to make a speech and that it must be long and thoughtful. Cultures where no speeches are expected.

Cultures where you must not leave food on your plate, and cultures where if you empty your plate it is refilled. Cultures where one is expected to bring food to a party, and cultures where it is an insult to bring any additional food or drink.

Cultures where you are expected to wait for everyone else to be served before starting your own food. Contrasted with cultures where it is rude not to start as soon as you are served.

A good rule of thumb is simply to observe what your hosts do and repeat.

it sounds cool to have been in that many different cultures.

so... what about non food related cultural assumptions? :p

Polish people don't hold the door open...they let it fall shut behind them, sometimes right in your face.

Maybe it's just the ones here, but it always shocks me.

Yes, it's very hard to break with formality if that's how you've been raised. But it's really also the safer way to go if you're not sure. Plus, it's not going to make the other person horribly uncomfortable if you're a little formal with them.
I was raised to call all adults Mr., Mrs. or Ms. [insert their surname here]. It's still strange to me when people my parents' age insist on my calling them by first name when I don't know them very well. There are only a handful of people in my parents' age range who I feel comfortable calling by first name. I've finally gotten to the stage where I call my boyfriend's parents by first name, but it took me four years. I still remember the time I phoned their house to return a call from his dad, and his mom answered the phone. I asked to speak to Mr. [his last name]; his mom didn't recognize my voice and asked who was calling. When I told her who it was she immediately started laughing; when his dad got the phone he said, "you know you can call me [his first name] - you're going to give my wife a heart attack!" (They were in the middle of dealing with some family-related issues at the time.) :p

But yeh, its awesome, the best way to have crepes.

Unquestionably. Pancakes are meant to be eaten with sugar and lemon. :p I've actually always seen it as the "default" option. (Have no idea what to have with this pancake? Oh, well. Sugar and lemon.)

Nutella is also good with pancakes.

I asked to speak to Mr. [his last name]; his mom didn't recognize my voice and asked who was calling. When I told her who it was she immediately started laughing; when his dad got the phone he said, "you know you can call me [his first name] - you're going to give my wife a heart attack!" (They were in the middle of dealing with some family-related issues at the time.) :p

So formality is not always the "safe" option, apparently. :D

I was raised to call all adults Mr., Mrs. or Ms. [insert their surname here]. It's still strange to me when people my parents' age insist on my calling them by first name when I don't know them very well. There are only a handful of people in my parents' age range who I feel comfortable calling by first name. I've finally gotten to the stage where I call my boyfriend's parents by first name, but it took me four years. I still remember the time I phoned their house to return a call from his dad, and his mom answered the phone. I asked to speak to Mr. [his last name]; his mom didn't recognize my voice and asked who was calling. When I told her who it was she immediately started laughing; when his dad got the phone he said, "you know you can call me [his first name] - you're going to give my wife a heart attack!" (They were in the middle of dealing with some family-related issues at the time.) :p

it annoys the crap out of my husband that my preschool students used to call me Ms.[my first name]

he was like "that is so wrong, you are married, it should be Mrs. and they need to learn your last name, you don't do that half ass "Ms. [first name]" crap in real life"

:p

I was so worried that my husband was going to expect me to take his last name if we ever got formally married (we're common law). I had long ago resolved to keep my own surname, but I didn't really want to offend him. It's not that offensive among my people, but I had gotten used to Canadians who thought it was an insult if the woman didn't take the man's name. Oh sure, it's more common now, but it's still usually seen as making some sort of statement about independence etc.

Then, I found out that most latinas do not take their husband's name! They keep their own!

So it was never an expectation at all:p

Polish people don't hold the door open...they let it fall shut behind them, sometimes right in your face.

Maybe it's just the ones here, but it always shocks me.

I've read that in Polish it is considered polite to suggest something using the imperative mood. So "would you like some more?" would be "have some more!". Is this true?

as far as i'm aware i've never noticed any particular culture doing any little things differently. every single household has its different rules and customs that i don't think i'd notice any cultural specificity to them. i'm generally rather oblivious though so i may well be offending people everywhere i go. i do remember quite clearly an occaision when i was probably 7 years old i was staying at the home of one of my mum's friends while my parents we busy moving house. at breakfast i tore my bread in to pieces with my hands so i could eat it easier and i got yelled at for being a barbarian or something. i have been scolded by one of my friend's mothers for not taking my shoes off on entering the house on many occaisions. i don't think that's a cultural thing though, she just doesn't want her carpets wearing out too quickly.

I've read that in Polish it is considered polite to suggest something using the imperative mood. So "would you like some more?" would be "have some more!". Is this true?

Good question. I can't figure out Polish customs...scratch that...to be honest I find a lot of Eastern Europeans to be very similar, and I find them to be very rude. I have to consciously remind myself that they most likely don't see themselves that way, and perhaps think I'm rude. But when I shop at my local Polish deli, I don't get served unless I literally push my way to the front and demand service...like everyone else :D

as far as i'm aware i've never noticed any particular culture doing any little things differently. every single household has its different rules and customs that i don't think i'd notice any cultural specificity to them. i'm generally rather oblivious though so i may well be offending people everywhere i go. i do remember quite clearly an occaision when i was probably 7 years old i was staying at the home of one of my mum's friends while my parents we busy moving house. at breakfast i tore my bread in to pieces with my hands so i could eat it easier and i got yelled at for being a barbarian or something. i have been scolded by one of my friend's mothers for not taking my shoes off on entering the house on many occaisions. i don't think that's a cultural thing though, she just doesn't want her carpets wearing out too quickly.

To me the most surprising thing there is that your friend's parents would scold/yell at you... That would have shocked me to the very core as a kid.

Another thing that hasn't ceased to make me uncomfortable, and downright shocked me throughout my childhood...animals in the house. Very few natives would ever have a cat or dog, or whatever in the house. It's just not done. It's bizarre! I know it's normal for many others...but it always creeped me out.

so... what about non food related cultural assumptions? :pFood is pretty much the most sensitive cultural issue ever. In the west we consider fat bad and that you shouldn't eat it. In constrast I've been to a country where fat is considered a delicacy and is highly valued. You should have seen the situation when the westerner told the non-westerner that the food they ate was bad. I had to rush in and give a delicately worded statement about balanced diets.

The biggest non-food cultural issue is that of individuality vs. communality/society. In the west we are pretty much 'Society what?'.

Yup, as you and Carn have pointed out, observation is key. It generally only becomes an issue when I encounter something odd in my own home, or I'm wanting to understand the why of something.

Then again, I've spent my whole life going back and forth between cultures.Indeed. There are very few things I pass judgement over now. Most are political - hence NSG. Usual I just think 'Cool, I've never thought of doing something that way before'.

it sounds cool to have been in that many different cultures.*nods vigourously*

Not so much a cultural assumption, more a lesson...

When going out with a Chinese girl and she invites you over for dinner with her parents DO NOT keep trying to finish everything on your plate - you will end up very very very full as it keeps getting re-filled until you cannot eat any more.

To me the most surprising thing there is that your friend's parents would scold/yell at you... That would have shocked me to the very core as a kid.

Hey, that's an interesting issue! In my culture, child-rearing is very much a community exercise...so any adult feels free to give you advice, or warn you about things, or even scold you if necessary. At the homes of my non-aboriginal friends, I always found their parents to be weirdly standoffish, and it took me YEARS to realise they did not think it was their place to 'parent' me in any way. So my friend and I would do something wrong, and she'd get bawled out (usually in private, but I could hear it) but nothing would be said to me. I found it so odd.

But I've had to learn to keep my opinions to myself around non-aboriginal kids, or be seen as pushy and rude. That's hard too.

To me the most surprising thing there is that your friend's parents would scold/yell at you... That would have shocked me to the very core as a kid.

well the one when i was 7 did shock me. i really coulldn't believe that she would presume to scold me. the other one's more recent and was more good humoured chiding than anything else. she's like a surrogate mum anyway so it wouldn't occur to me to feel put out by that.

Food is pretty much the most sensitive cultural issue ever. In the west we consider fat bad and that you shouldn't eat it. In constrast I've been to a country where fat is considered a delicacy and is highly valued. You should have seen the situation when the westerner told the non-westerner that the food they ate was bad. I had to rush in and give a delicately worded statement about balanced diets.

Vegetarians in Latin America. Constant explanations. Travelling with a vegetarian friend who spoke no Spanish, I was constantly having to explain to people that she was not being deliberately rude in refusing meat...because in many cases, the people offering it to us were very poor, and ate meat themselves only once or twice a year. So turning it down was like a slap in the face! I eventually just started saying she had stomach problems...which they'd offer to cure with all sorts of traditional remedies :D But at least they stopped being offended.

Not so much a cultural assumption, more a lesson...

When going out with a Chinese girl and she invites you over for dinner with her parents DO NOT keep trying to finish everything on your plate - you will end up very very very full as it keeps getting re-filled until you cannot eat any more.

I know this is from a movie...but it always made me laugh because it reminded my of my Irish grandmother. Joy Luck Club I think? Anyway, the white boyfriend, at his first family dinner with his Chinese girlfriend...the mother is denigrating her cooking, saying, oh it doesn't have enough salt (not meaning it...she didn't want to be seen as bragging) and the guy says, 'oh no problem'...and proceeds to add salt, to the horror of the guests :D

My grandmother is like that too...we'd praise her cooking, and she denies it is any good, always pointing out imaginary faults...I can just imagine someone actually trying to 'fix' HER food!

Another thing that hasn't ceased to make me uncomfortable, and downright shocked me throughout my childhood...animals in the house. Very few natives would ever have a cat or dog, or whatever in the house. It's just not done. It's bizarre! I know it's normal for many others...but it always creeped me out.
Ooh, pets! I always had a dog when I was growing up, but they were never allowed on the furniture. The first time I went to a friend's house and their dog (a great dane!) jumped up on the couch with me, I was like "WTF is this huge thing doing trying to curl up on my lap??"

Ooh, pets! I always had a dog when I was growing up, but they were never allowed on the furniture. The first time I went to a friend's house and their dog (a great dane!) jumped up on the couch with me, I was like "WTF is this huge thing doing trying to curl up on my lap??"

Some people are odd with their pets. So, I'm fine with pets in someone's house, that's their right...but when said pet is a huge dog, who keeps knocking my kids over and terrifying them to tears...and the owner thinks it's okay? Not cool. Put the fucking dog somewhere for a while, or my kids and I won't be back again.

I also got really pissed off on the odd occasion, working in a liquor store, that customers would bring their dogs in with them. Unless it's a seeing eye dog? I don't believe there is a general assumption that animals are allowed in stores...but they seemed oblivious to that.

Another thing that hasn't ceased to make me uncomfortable, and downright shocked me throughout my childhood...animals in the house. Very few natives would ever have a cat or dog, or whatever in the house. It's just not done. It's bizarre! I know it's normal for many others...but it always creeped me out.

I'm dont think the average dog would cohabitate with filthy savages anyway.


I'm almost feeling my old self again.

I know this is from a movie...but it always made me laugh because it reminded my of my Irish grandmother. Joy Luck Club I think? Anyway, the white boyfriend, at his first family dinner with his Chinese girlfriend...the mother is denigrating her cooking, saying, oh it doesn't have enough salt (not meaning it...she didn't want to be seen as bragging) and the guy says, 'oh no problem'...and proceeds to add salt, to the horror of the guests :D

My grandmother is like that too...we'd praise her cooking, and she denies it is any good, always pointing out imaginary faults...I can just imagine someone actually trying to 'fix' HER food!

we have a version of that here. Whenever you go over to someone's house they say "the house is a mess" but really what they mean is "I cleaned my house but I want you to say "it's beautiful""

when someone calls to "drop by" and I say "my house is a mess" they are shocked to realize when they arrive that my house, really is a mess. :D I do straighten, frantically while they are on the way, but it's never enough time. When you homeschool, there are always books, etc lying around, it's not something that can be contained.

I went to middle school and high school in Europe, and it was normal for me to greet my friends with a kiss on the cheek regardless of their sex. I learned pretty quickly when I got to the US for university that this was NOT normal. :p

Around here, even hugging a same-sex friend is very rare, and usually looked down upon as being 'gay'. A friendly kiss will get you very dirty looks at the very least. Between opposite sexes, there is no such thing as a friendly kiss as far as we're concerned.

Not so much a cultural assumption, more a lesson...

When going out with a Chinese girl and she invites you over for dinner with her parents DO NOT keep trying to finish everything on your plate - you will end up very very very full as it keeps getting re-filled until you cannot eat any more.

Phew, that's a load off my chest. Last time I went to a Chinese restaurant, the meal was so big that I couldn't possibly finish it all. Until now, I thought I was being very rude for leaving almost half of my squid uneaten.

I'm dont think the average dog would cohabitate with filthy savages anyway. :D I wish that were true...that they'd just veer off and leave me and my kids alone!


I'm almost feeling my old self again.
Have you been ill?

we have a version of that here. Whenever you go over to someone's house they say "the house is a mess" but really what they mean is "I cleaned my house but I want you to say "it's beautiful""


Hahhaa, too true...here as well:)

In my family, and my husband's family, you don't need an invitation, or need to call ahead do drop in.

But among certain friends...not calling in advance and giving them warning of your arrival is a BIG no-no :D

So when I'm planning on visiting someone I don't know very well yet, I always ask...."do you want me to let you know first?"

The biggest non-food cultural issue is that of individuality vs. communality/society. In the west we are pretty much 'Society what?'.

Very true. Which is why it irks me slightly when Westerners believe individuality /-ism is a universal norm.

Vegetarians in Latin America. Constant explanations. Travelling with a vegetarian friend who spoke no Spanish, I was constantly having to explain to people that she was not being deliberately rude in refusing meat...because in many cases, the people offering it to us were very poor, and ate meat themselves only once or twice a year. So turning it down was like a slap in the face! I eventually just started saying she had stomach problems...which they'd offer to cure with all sorts of traditional remedies :D But at least they stopped being offended.

Cuba was ok. They accepted it. But being a vegetarian in France... French people just can't conceive of vegetarians. It's so bizarre to them that they'll look mildly puzzled for a while, then either give up or ask lots of questions. Not that they really want to understand. They're more interested in trying to make you see that you're not "normal", and that you should be. (The number of times French people have used that word on me!)

In an extreme case (hopefully a one-off) a vegetarian friend of my sister's was actually insulted by a waiter in a restaurant, who accused her of insulting French "culture" and "values" by asking whether there was a vegetarian option.

When I go to England, it's a breath of fresh air. Being vegetarian is accepted as normal, no questions asked. They even label food in shops, saving me from having to check all the ingredients (as I must constantly do in France).

Some people are odd with their pets. So, I'm fine with pets in someone's house, that's their right...but when said pet is a huge dog, who keeps knocking my kids over and terrifying them to tears...and the owner thinks it's okay? Not cool. Put the fucking dog somewhere for a while, or my kids and I won't be back again.

I also got really pissed off on the odd occasion, working in a liquor store, that customers would bring their dogs in with them. Unless it's a seeing eye dog? I don't believe there is a general assumption that animals are allowed in stores...but they seemed oblivious to that.
I don't know if this is still common, but when I was living in Italy I was really shocked the first time I saw someone bring their dog with them into a restaurant. Apparently it wasn't thought of as rude at all, and eventually I got used to seeing people take their dogs everywhere.

And I'm totally with you on the first point. I was at a large gathering of several families once, and I became the communal babysitter while the adults were doing their thing (I was 16 or so at the time). The people whose house we were at had a large, very exuberant lab who didn't mean any harm but still frightened some of the smaller kids. So I locked him up in the dog run, and later on one of the adults commented on how much more confident and happy the kids seemed. Apparently these kids had always been really timid at this house before. I wanted to tell the person, "Well no shit. How happy would you be if you were three years old and a dog was constantly running over you?"

:D I wish that were true...that they'd just veer off and leave me and my kids alone!


Have you been ill?

I deliberately avoid people's houses where they have the dogs right there on the furniture and in your face. You know I'm coming,put them away. Unless you dont want me there-thats fine too.
I dont want to have to kill someone's dog because it bit one of my kids.

Some trauma in February. without making a big mystery,I'd just like to leave that there.

Hahahhahhaa, another food one...we don't eat a lot of bread, but Chileans LIVE on the stuff. So we'll go to a Vietnamese restaurant, and my husband will always request bread. The waiter invariably gives him a dirty look :D My husband thinks bread should be present with every meal.

Around here, even hugging a same-sex friend is very rare, and usually looked down upon as being 'gay'. A friendly kiss will get you very dirty looks at the very least. Between opposite sexes, there is no such thing as a friendly kiss as far as we're concerned.


When I was younger, the fact that a man and a woman who are friends shake hands instead of kissing cheeks in England struck me as strange, and very formal. In France, when you're introduced to a friend of a friend, who's of the opposite gender (or the same gender if you're both girls), you greet them with two (usually) kisses on the cheeks. Even though you're meeting them for the first time.

When I'm in a foreign country, it always feels a little strange to shake a girl's hand instead of kissing her.

Around here, even hugging a same-sex friend is very rare, and usually looked down upon as being 'gay'. A friendly kiss will get you very dirty looks at the very least. Between opposite sexes, there is no such thing as a friendly kiss as far as we're concerned.
I suppose I should mention that I'm female. Girls greeted either sex with a kiss on the cheek, but guys never did so with other guys.

Hahahhahhaa, another food one...we don't eat a lot of bread, but Chileans LIVE on the stuff. So we'll go to a Vietnamese restaurant, and my husband will always request bread. The waiter invariably gives him a dirty look :D My husband thinks bread should be present with every meal.

Heh. Same here. I met a Thai girl once, and I was shocked when she said she never eats bread. "But... but that's not possible!" :D

Another weird one...British people who eat pancakes with sugar and lemon.

It's good...but so odd...I never would have thought of it!

Why, what else would you eat pancakes with? Apart from treacle :D

I suppose I should mention that I'm female. Girls greeted either sex with a kiss on the cheek, but guys never did so with other guys.

Here it's ok with family. I'm male, and I kiss my (male) cousins on the cheeks, and my uncles, and my grandfather. But I'd never do that with a male friend, or any guy who's not family.

Some trauma in February. without making a big mystery,I'd just like to leave that there.

Well, glad you're feeling a bit better, and you've been missed.

Why, what else would you eat pancakes with? Apart from treacle :D

Hhahahaha, jam perhaps. I've tried it with sugar and lemon and it's good...I just never would have come up with that on my own!

When I was younger, the fact that a man and a woman who are friends shake hands instead of kissing cheeks in England struck me as strange, and very formal. In France, when you're introduced to a friend of a friend, who's of the opposite gender (or the same gender if you're both girls), you greet them with two (usually) kisses on the cheeks. Even though you're meeting them for the first time.

Interesting. Around here we like to keep our distance, even more than the English, I'd think. Unless you're very good friends (or drunk), shaking hands is pretty much the only universally accepted form of physical contact.

I suppose I should mention that I'm female. Girls greeted either sex with a kiss on the cheek, but guys never did so with other guys.

Ah. I believe, though, that in some cultures, like Russian, it is very common among men also.

When I'm in a foreign country, it always feels a little strange to shake a girl's hand instead of kissing her.

A lot of people from older generations in Canada still react strangely to a female offering to shake their hand. Some older people find it unforgivably aggressive.

Hhahahaha, jam perhaps. I've tried it with sugar and lemon and it's good...I just never would have come up with that on my own!

Oh yeah Jam...I forgot Jam :p

Here it's ok with family. I'm male, and I kiss my (male) cousins on the cheeks, and my uncles, and my grandfather. But I'd never do that with a male friend, or any guy who's not family.
Hmm. I can't remember what guys did with family members. That sounds about right though.

But being a vegetarian in France... French people just can't conceive of vegetarians. It's so bizarre to them that they'll look mildly puzzled for a while, then either give up or ask lots of questions. Not that they really want to understand. They're more interested in trying to make you see that you're not "normal", and that you should be. (The number of times French people have used that word on me!)


I think that's the case pretty much everywhere in the world outside of South and South East Asia, the UK, and most parts of North America.

Around here, even hugging a same-sex friend is very rare, and usually looked down upon as being 'gay'. A friendly kiss will get you very dirty looks at the very least. Between opposite sexes, there is no such thing as a friendly kiss as far as we're concerned.

here we do sometimes kiss girls when we're introduced or sometimes we don't it depends if someone starts it. men can hug or kiss but it's quite rare and sometimes someone will shout "gaaaaay!" and then we laugh or something, while being gay is far from normal here it's not really a big deal.
when i hear all this stuff about various rules i find my 'culture' to only have a smaal amount, i like that.

Eye contact. Among natives, you do not stare an elder in the eye. You focus on the face below the eyes out of respect.

Among non-aboriginal Canadians, avoiding eye contact is suspicious. It causes no end of trouble for native kids in school.

One thing I learned about inuit kids...they will wrinkle their nose for 'no' and raise their eyebrows for 'yes', instead of vocally answer you. So you think they are ignoring your question, and being rude, but they think you're stupid because they did answer :D

when i hear all this stuff about various rules i find my 'culture' to only have a smaal amount, i like that.

The vast majority of these cultural rules are only noticed when someone from outside points them out, though. That's why anthropologists can't just ask people why they do things a certain way, because often the people didn't even realise they were doing it until it's pointed out. There are probably a good deal more rules than you know about.

Canada, of First Nations ancestry.

I haven't once had a Canadian not remove their shoes in a house, though I can't speak for all corners of the country.

I wonder if it's because of our long winters and slushy springs? It's almost impossible during most times of the year to really clean your shoes off well, so you're going to be tracking in dirt.
In my experience, people from Toronto are less likely to remove their shoes, especially if the weather is clement. But out west everyone does.

A lot of people from older generations in Canada still react strangely to a female offering to shake their hand. Some older people find it unforgivably aggressive.

Really? What are you supposed to do, then? Be entirely passive and wait to be greeted in some way or other?


One thing I learned about inuit kids...they will wrinkle their nose for 'no' and raise their eyebrows for 'yes', instead of vocally answer you. So you think they are ignoring your question, and being rude, but they think you're stupid because they did answer :D

Interesting!

Really? What are you supposed to do, then? Be entirely passive and wait to be greeted in some way or other?
When it comes to older people, I wait until they offer their hand anymore. I hate offering mine and having them clasp it uncomfortably and loosely. So I'll greet them verbally unless they want to shake hands.

In my experience, people from Toronto are less likely to remove their shoes, especially if the weather is clement. But out west everyone does.

Oh well that's okay...I'd never let someone from the T dot in my house anyway :D

*kidding!*

In my house, you don't have to take off your shoes, provided you aren't tracking mud behind you.

Interesting!
And every native I've met points with their lips:D

"Oh Gracie, look at that fine Grass Dancer!" *purses lips to indicate which one*

"Oh Gracie, look at that fine Grass Dancer!" *purses lips to indicate which one*

wow, isn't that never mistaken for "i want to kiss you"?

here pointing at people is traditionaly considered impolite but nobody will actually take offense. when we don't want people to know we are pointing towards them we nod with our heads or point with our elbow while going with our hand true our hair.

One thing I learned about inuit kids...they will wrinkle their nose for 'no' and raise their eyebrows for 'yes', instead of vocally answer you. So you think they are ignoring your question, and being rude, but they think you're stupid because they did answer :D
I do that! Other people don't do that?

And every native I've met points with their lips:D

"Oh Gracie, look at that fine Grass Dancer!" *purses lips to indicate which one*
My mom does that. :p

wow, isn't that never mistaken for "i want to kiss you"? No, if you saw the gesture, it doesn't look like preparing for a kiss. Pointing with your finger at someone is rude for us as well...this is much more discreet. But it can be missed if you don't know about it...again, with aboriginal kids, you might say, 'where's your pen', and they'll move their lips a bit, but not answer. But they are pointing.

It involves a slight head movement too, much less than a nod or anything.

I do that! Other people don't do that? It makes perfect sense once you think about it...but it's easy to miss!


My mom does that. :pInteresting! What background are you from, if you don't mind me asking?

And every native I've met points with their lips:D

"Oh Gracie, look at that fine Grass Dancer!" *purses lips to indicate which one*

In most cultures pointing with the mouth or chin is the most common method. Finger pointing is much less universal.

Interesting! What background are you from, if you don't mind me asking?
My mom is from the Philippines, and my dad is from the US. I was born in California but raised overseas due to my dad's job.

My mom is from the Philippines, and my dad is from the US. I was born in California but raised overseas due to my dad's job.

Right, right! The hot half-filipina:D

In most cultures pointing with the mouth or chin is the most common method. Finger pointing is much less universal.

Interesting. I saw the lip pointing among aboriginals in Latin America, but never among the latinos there.

Right, right! The hot half-filipina:D
Haha, I think I mentioned it before but I don't think I really look filipina. Although, everyone says I look just like my mom, who looks very filipina. Who knows. :p

Germans not looking me in the eyes when I spoke to them.

Sure, my German is...unique, but you don't need to hide your contempt for it by looking over my right shoulder and struggling not to laugh!

What was with that?

Some people are odd with their pets. So, I'm fine with pets in someone's house, that's their right...but when said pet is a huge dog, who keeps knocking my kids over and terrifying them to tears...and the owner thinks it's okay? Not cool. Put the fucking dog somewhere for a while, or my kids and I won't be back again.

I also got really pissed off on the odd occasion, working in a liquor store, that customers would bring their dogs in with them. Unless it's a seeing eye dog? I don't believe there is a general assumption that animals are allowed in stores...but they seemed oblivious to that.



Speaking of dogs knocking over and scaring kids.. My brother and his wife have always had dogs in their house.. usually poodles or cocker spaniels. Well they had a Chow named Charlie years ago when I was maybe 7 or 8. He'd act like he was going to rip your head off if you walked into the house. I'd be freaking scared to move from where I was sitting, go to the bathroom or to the kitchen cause when I did he'd run up on me and stare or pin me to whatever I was near at the time. All my brother would do is laugh and then holler the dogs name and Charlie would back off eyeballing me the whole time. Well it wasn't very funny when that dog ended up biting both of them. Bit my sister in law first on the forearm taking out a chunk of meat. The dumb asses kept the dog and then it bit my brother.. same spot on him .. forearm. Turns out the dog was inbred as a lot of Chows are, and just mentally whacked out and had to be put down. I'm just thankful that it never attacked me, cause if it had and my mom or dad not been there at the time(they would've tackled and probably killed the dog-where as bro and his wife would've just yelled at it).. it would've killed me .

I was always around dogs when I was a kid... some of them big and goofy and would run me over playing. I'd cry sometimes when they'd sit on me and not let me up or something, but I wasn't afraid of them. Charlie is the only dog I can remember ever being afraid of.

Edit: Nothing against Chows btw .. (the mentally stable ones I mean lol) one of the best dogs I've ever known was a chow mix. He was like my guardian angel for a few years when growing up.

Well, glad you're feeling a bit better, and you've been missed.

thanks

Amusingly enough, when I "point" it tends to be a whole hand gesture, open palm, fingers loose, perhaps with a mild cup.

That's how I've always done it.

Oh well that's okay...I'd never let someone from the T dot in my house anyway :D
See, you are a good Albertan...

The rule in my house when I was growing up was always shoes off. When I met my boyfriend's parents, back before we started dating, I took my shoes off at the door. They thought it was very weird, although they didn't say anything to me until later. Now I leave my shoes on at their house.

My mom grew up poor, without much furniture in her house, so she was used to sitting on the floor. She still does it often, and so when I was growing up it was more normal for me to sit on the floor than it was to sit on furniture. I still do this, but it doesn't offend people so much as make them think I'm very strange.

I went to middle school and high school in Europe, and it was normal for me to greet my friends with a kiss on the cheek regardless of their sex. I learned pretty quickly when I got to the US for university that this was NOT normal. :p

how is that not normal? some people kiss, some others hug, some other shake hands, some others touch the face...
everyone has different ways of meeting and greeting people

dont you kiss your father? your grandfather? your son(s)? likewise your mother, grandmother and daughter(s) if you have any?

its normal and its not a "gay" thing. you have no love

Around here, even hugging a same-sex friend is very rare, and usually looked down upon as being 'gay'.

Heh. It is very common in India for male friends to walk holding hands or hands over other person's shoulders. Unthinkable to do that anywhere else if you are not gay.

An American colleague came back from a visit there and tells me in all seriousness "There are so many gays..."

I always try to get into asian houses with my shoes on.

I always try to get into asian houses with my shoes on.

"My ancestors weren't made out of Mud"...can I ask what you mean by that in your signature?

how is that not normal? some people kiss, some others hug, some other shake hands, some others touch the face...
everyone has different ways of meeting and greeting people

dont you kiss your father? your grandfather? your son(s)? likewise your mother, grandmother and daughter(s) if you have any?

its normal and its not a "gay" thing. you have no love
What are you on about? Yes, I hug and kiss my family. All I said was that at one point in my life I lived in a place where the norm was for me to greet people with a kiss, and then I moved to a different location where that wasn't the norm at all.

*snip*
Ah, okay...I thought it could possibly be a white supremacist statement, since some LOVE to call 'non-whites' Mud People.

"My ancestors weren't made out of Mud"...can I ask what you mean by that in your signature?

Yup

You see, there's this sort of pseudoscientific theory going around these days, even to the extent that powerful lobbies are trying to get it taught in public schools.

It's called the Mud Theory.

According to this theory, there was some dusty dirt, a long time ago, and then a mis came up over it to wet it, and turned it into mud.

Once this dirt had been made into mud, an invisible magician, called Yahweh, made statues of people out of the mud, and then brought them to life with his magic.

I reject this theory out of hand, and as such consider it prudent to let it be known that my ancestors weren't made out of mud, they evolved from other organisms, &c. &c.

Ah, okay...I thought it could possibly be a white supremacist statement, since some LOVE to call 'non-whites' Mud People.

Nope nope nope, the real Mud People are the mud-for-brains religious maniacs.

"My ancestors weren't made out of Mud"...can I ask what you mean by that in your signature?

Genesis 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

The rule in my house when I was growing up was always shoes off. When I met my boyfriend's parents, back before we started dating, I took my shoes off at the door. They thought it was very weird, although they didn't say anything to me until later. Now I leave my shoes on at their house.

My mom grew up poor, without much furniture in her house, so she was used to sitting on the floor. She still does it often, and so when I was growing up it was more normal for me to sit on the floor than it was to sit on furniture. I still do this, but it doesn't offend people so much as make them think I'm very strange.

I went to middle school and high school in Europe, and it was normal for me to greet my friends with a kiss on the cheek regardless of their sex. I learned pretty quickly when I got to the US for university that this was NOT normal. :p

What are you on about? Yes, I hug and kiss my family. All I said was that at one point in my life I lived in a place where the norm was for me to greet people with a kiss, and then I moved to a different location where that wasn't the norm at all.
its different saying "norm" or "custom" than saying "normal" or "anormal"

to me it just sounded like it was normal for you to kiss, and then it stopped being normal as if you realized it was gay, rather than a change of custom due to a different culture

here in portugal it is norm to greet ladies with a kiss and shake the hands of man when greeting. sometimes shake the hands of woman, when greeting formaly.
however with family members, it is not so uncommon to also kiss, at least grandfathers, fathers and sometimes uncles. for cousins again it is not common, but an exception to the rule is perhaps distant relatives. you usually shake the hands while kissing male relatives.
it is important to note that even though Portugal is still quite conservative, kisses among relatives were always part of the culture. only in the last few decades this is changing, due to discrimination to gay people and accusations of such behavior when you do something that people think its gay. that didn't used to happen because gay people were often not coming out of the closet, so rarely there was someone calling someone gay. that discrimination is one of the causes for the consequent dropping of old manners.:rolleyes:

also a norm is to call people by their first names, rather than their last names. the way you call friends and people you just met is different though. more formal with the latter. with elders (specially relatives) you also address in a more formal manner, as a sign of respect.
by contrast, in Brazil you always address in the formal manner, never in the informal manner.

a pat on the back or having your arm over someone shoulders is quite normal, even more during parties when people are drunk. its like, everybody holds everybody so no one falls - of course if someone does, everybody else is likely to fall too if they are too drunk:D

In my experience, people from Toronto are less likely to remove their shoes, especially if the weather is clement. But out west everyone does.

Really?

Part of what I used to do when my family owned a small business was to do in-home estimates. Removing your shoes was standard. One time I lost a sale because I dared to ask 'are my shoes okay'? Generally, you should just start to remove your shoes, unless the customer tells you not to bother (which sometimes happens).

One small 'cultural' thing I've noticed when I cross the border (usually into Michigan); once you get into the US people have never heard of putting vinegar on french fries. Almost every time I ask, I get a puzzled look, and they come out with a bottle of wine vinegar (as opposed to white vinegar which is univerally available in restaurants in Ontario.) One time, the waitress came back at the end of the meal and asked if it was okay to take the bottle back. She must have thought I was drinking it...

Working in the moving industry I see people from all walks of life, and there are some almost universal things you notice. For instance, I find Eastern Europeans haggle over the price almost incessantly; they're just used to bargaining with people. I find East Asians tend to bargain less, but will still look for a lower price. Typical White-Anglo Canadians tend to just ask for the price, and compare with other agents without bargaining.

People who are more affluent generally tend to tip less, while people working in lower-middle incomes tend to tip well. It's always odd to see people who are getting their move paid for them by their company not even go so far out of their way as to offer a glass of water. Some will even refuse if asked for one. (Perhaps this isn't a cultural thing, but it seems to be a difference based on levels of affluence.)

Even the way people pack their belongings seem to be standard based on where they are from. Chinese almost universally pack everything into suitcases. It's not uncommon to move a chinese family and lug out 20 suitcases packed with books.

And Italians absolutely love Large and bulky furniture, not to mention stone ornamenture. You're clearly in for a hard day if you're moving Italians.

One small 'cultural' thing I've noticed when I cross the border (usually into Michigan); once you get into the US people have never heard of putting vinegar on french fries. Almost every time I ask, I get a puzzled look, and they come out with a bottle of wine vinegar (as opposed to white vinegar which is univerally available in restaurants in Ontario.) One time, the waitress came back at the end of the meal and asked if it was okay to take the bottle back. She must have thought I was drinking it...
That certainly true. Americans don't put vinegar on fries. As recently as about 15 years ago they'd never heard of ketchup flavoured potato chips, either.

In BC, restaurants will often offer you mayo with your fries, but that never happens in Alberta.
For instance, I find Eastern Europeans haggle over the price almost incessantly; they're just used to bargaining with people.
My sister-in-law is Moroccan, and it's amazing what deals she can get just by haggling. She's also more than willing to bribe the garbage man to let her exceed bag limits (and it works).
People who are more affluent generally tend to tip less, while people working in lower-middle incomes tend to tip well.
Restaurant patrons in BC will tip their servers 15-20% every time. Albertans more typically come in around 8-12%.

In BC, restaurants will often offer you mayo with your fries, but that never happens in Alberta.

Through high-school I worked at McDonalds (Early 90's), and mayo with fries was unheard of... until it suddenly caught on like wildfire. One year, no one had heard of it, the next, people were speciffically requesting mayo in cups. It got to the point where McDonalds started offering small packets of it.

I don't know if if was a trend that kinda died down, but I don't really see it very often anymore. Maybe it was just a regional trend.

My sister-in-law is Moroccan, and it's amazing what deals she can get just by haggling. She's also more than willing to bribe the garbage man to let her exceed bag limits (and it works).

Ah. Proof that the almighty dollar will always upset the best laid social-communal plans.

I think we (as in naturalized north americans) have become used to the department store culture, where you always pay the listed price. I have a friend that works in a lumber/hardware store, and constantly has to tell shoppers (often polish/east european) that 'this isn't Millwork's House of Crazy Bargains. You pay the listed price!' Still, it would be nice to have someone like that around the next time I go to buy a car...

Restaurant patrons in BC will tip their servers 15-20% every time. Albertans more typically come in around 8-12%.

I'm not really sure what the Ontarian average would be. I do tend to notice that the older generation like's to tip at around 10%, and to the penny at that. Younger people either tip lavishly, or not-at-all. (My brother is a notorious non-tipper. I want to slap him upside the head at times.)

I feel guilty for haggling, or trying to, and I suck at it. My husband on the other hand will haggle with anyone, over anything and it almost always works. It's ridiculous.

That certainly true. Americans don't put vinegar on fries. As recently as about 15 years ago they'd never heard of ketchup flavoured potato chips, either.
I've noticed that you cannot get Salt and Vinegar chips in the US either. What the hell flavor do they eat? Salted? Bhel!
In BC, restaurants will often offer you mayo with your fries, but that never happens in Alberta.
We like to put ketchup on everything too. Potatoes, Chinese food (you Albertans fail at making Chinese food btw), steamed vegetables, etc.
Restaurant patrons in BC will tip their servers 15-20% every time. Albertans more typically come in around 8-12%.
I tend to aim for that (15-20%), but usually aim to make it work out evenly. Then again, Ive had people tell me that I am not going to tip them that much.

its different saying "norm" or "custom" than saying "normal" or "anormal"

to me it just sounded like it was normal for you to kiss, and then it stopped being normal as if you realized it was gay, rather than a change of custom due to a different culture
Ah. I thought my meaning was clear when taken in the context of a thread about cultural differences.

My boyfriend is Iranian, and when I go over to his house, I am always a little uncomfortable when his father kisses me on the cheek.

I also get weird looks when my boyfriends mother talks to me, and I answer her back with a "I'm fine, and yourself?" Every time, I can see his father looking from the corner of his eye with this look... it's spooky.

I've noticed that you cannot get Salt and Vinegar chips in the US either!

Um...yes you can...

As for Mayo and Fries...that is perhaps the most disgusting thing I have ever heard of. Fries are unhealthy enough (although delicious) without slapping more fat on them.

I'm not really sure what the Ontarian average would be. I do tend to notice that the older generation like's to tip at around 10%, and to the penny at that. Younger people either tip lavishly, or not-at-all. (My brother is a notorious non-tipper. I want to slap him upside the head at times.)

That couldn't be more different from my experiences. While I, given my financial situation, tend to tip rather well at 19, most people my age don't tip for shit, either out of ignorance or no money, and often take out the cook's error's on the waiter/waitress.

Older people, in contrast, have the money to tip, understand the reasons behind it, and would feel pathetic if they didn't.

I never tip. Ever. An increasing amount of places add a service charge, which is effectively a mandatory tip (which is technically illegal), so I often don't pay that either. I'll also not pay at all if my meal is shit.

My parents do none of these things and I think they're morons.

Cheap ass Scot ;)

That couldn't be more different from my experiences. While I, given my financial situation, tend to tip rather well at 19, most people my age don't tip for shit, either out of ignorance or no money, and often take out the cook's error's on the waiter/waitress.

Older people, in contrast, have the money to tip, understand the reasons behind it, and would feel pathetic if they didn't.

I never tip. Ever. An increasing amount of places add a service charge, which is effectively a mandatory tip (which is technically illegal), so I often don't pay that either. I'll also not pay at all if my meal is shit.

My parents do none of these things and I think they're morons.

I never tip. Ever. An increasing amount of places add a service charge, which is effectively a mandatory tip (which is technically illegal), so I often don't pay that either. I'll also not pay at all if my meal is shit.

My parents do none of these things and I think they're morons.Uh, how do you get away with not paying just because the meal was not satisfactory?

Uh, how do you get away with not paying just because the meal was not satisfactory?

Because UK law allows it so. If your meal is unsatisfactory, you simply state it as such, issue your address to the owner of the establishment then leave. They have no power to stop you (since that would be a breach of the law on their part). So long as you make your displeasure clear, you're on the right side of the law.

They can attempt to recover costs only if they sue you, and prove that the meal was fine. There's a minimum £130 charge for filing a civil complaint against someone, so most places won't bother.

Because UK law allows it so. If your meal is unsatisfactory, you simply state it as such, issue your address to the owner of the establishment then leave. They have no power to stop you (since that would be a breach of the law on their part). So long as you make your displeasure clear, you're on the right side of the law.

They can attempt to recover costs only if they sue you, and prove that the meal was fine. There's a minimum £130 charge for filing a civil complaint against someone, so most places won't bother.

Sounds like a rather ridiculous loophole

Because UK law allows it so. If your meal is unsatisfactory, you simply state it as such, issue your address to the owner of the establishment then leave. They have no power to stop you (since that would be a breach of the law on their part). So long as you make your displeasure clear, you're on the right side of the law.

They can attempt to recover costs only if they sue you, and prove that the meal was fine. There's a minimum £130 charge for filing a civil complaint against someone, so most places won't bother.I don't think we can do that here. I can name a handful of people who would take advantage of that.

Unquestionably. Pancakes are meant to be eaten with sugar and lemon. :p I've actually always seen it as the "default" option. (Have no idea what to have with this pancake? Oh, well. Sugar and lemon.)

Maple syrup seems to be the standard here. I don't like maple syrup though, I shall have to try this sugar and lemon.

Ah. In the states (at least where I live) you usually ask your host first if they want you to remove your shoes or not. From reading your post it sounded like you lived in Japan (shoes, table manners, etc.).

It's Canada, we're just polite like that. ;)

Another thing that hasn't ceased to make me uncomfortable, and downright shocked me throughout my childhood...animals in the house. Very few natives would ever have a cat or dog, or whatever in the house. It's just not done. It's bizarre! I know it's normal for many others...but it always creeped me out.

This turned out to be a custom that costed a continent. Live surrounded by animals in theirs and your own filth, get inoculated against everything.

In my experience, people from Toronto are less likely to remove their shoes, especially if the weather is clement. But out west everyone does.

Everyone I know takes their shoes off when they go inside, and I live like 80 minutes outside of Toronto.

Sounds like a rather ridiculous loophole

It's a civil contract. The restaurant enters into a contract with the customer by agreeing to provide good food and service. The customer agrees to pay if this is met. If either side breaks the contract, it's null and void.

It's a civil contract. The restaurant enters into a contract with the customer by agreeing to provide good food and service. The customer agrees to pay if this is met. If either side breaks the contract, it's null and void.But, wouldn't it essentially allow anyone to come in, get a quality meal, then say it's crap just so they don't have to pay?

But, wouldn't it essentially allow anyone to come in, get a quality meal, then say it's crap just so they don't have to pay?

Exactly. That "civil contract" seems like it would be laughed out of court in America.

But, wouldn't it essentially allow anyone to come in, get a quality meal, then say it's crap just so they don't have to pay?

No. That'd be a crime. See http://www.thesite.org/homelawandmoney/law/yourrights/restaurantrightsthebill for more info.

No. That'd be a crime. See http://www.thesite.org/homelawandmoney/law/yourrights/restaurantrightsthebill for more info.Yes, I figured it's a crime, but I'm sure a bold person could get away with it once or twice.

Exactly. That "civil contract" seems like it would be laughed out of court in America.

Then you're completely misunderstanding what I'm saying. You can't walk in then eat your meal, then say you're not paying. That'd be theft and a criminal matter. You can walk in, taste your meal, inform the waiter it's shit, THEN not pay. That'd be a civil matter.

Then you're completely misunderstanding what I'm saying. You can't walk in then eat your meal, then say you're not paying. That'd be theft and a criminal matter. You can walk in, taste your meal, inform the waiter it's shit, THEN not pay. That'd be a civil matter.Ah, that makes sense. Gotcha.

Ah, that makes sense. Gotcha.

Aye, lol. Much more.

*slaps forehead*

In that case, it's the same in America. I did that eventually, actually. My waffles were complete shit, so I told them and they gave me new (better) waffles, free.

tipping in the US... :-)

it never happens here in Oz due to "better" wages for serving staff and i kept forgetting to tip in the US

I've found, that interacting with people from other cultures, that it's never the big things that are a shock, it's the little things. And when I mean 'other cultures', it can even be people from other provinces, or perhaps even specific family cultures.

For example. I used to think my in-laws were so bloody rude for not taking their shoes off in my house. It was the most offensive thing EVER! They didn't even notice it was a problem because I just quietly fumed. And then I went to Chile, where most of the homes have cement floors, and where most people don't take their shoes off inside...they just make sure their shoes are clean. A little light went off in my head that said, 'Hey! What's normal, and right for them, is not what's normal and right for me...so they aren't deliberately being rude, they just didn't notice!'

So I stopped fuming, and explained that in my culture, you take your shoes off. Problem fixed.


I despise being asked to take off my shoes. Always have. (unless they're caked with mud or something, of course) As someone said earlier, you may as well ask me to take off my pants. I've always been of the opinion that the guest should be made comfortable. If he/she wants to take their shoes off or leave their shoes on, then so be it. What makes the host comfortable is irrelevant. Same with food. They can take as little or as much as they like. I don't understand hosts feeling it's ok to force their ways on a guest because it makes the host more comfortable. It's all about the guest IMO.

I don't tip. Not because I'm a jackass, but because I don't make enough money to pay for my meal, let alone give 15% of said cost to someone else. :p

Nutella is also good with pancakes.

I love nutella. *drools*

I always take my shoes off when entering a place. It's the height of rudeness not to in NZ (espesh Maori culture). I find it very rude and more than a little disgusting to wander around inside with your outside shoes on. May as well go the whole hog and smear dirt, gum and dog shit on the floors.

One time (pre-cellphone era) I needed to make a call back to the office rather urgently. I knocked on the door of the nearest house and asked if I could use the phone. A little old lady peered out at me and then hestitantly decided to let me in. Out of habit I took my shoes off before entering. She relaxed totally at that point and said that proved I'd been raised properly.
She ended up offering me a cup of tea and homemade cakes, which made for a more pleasant afternoon than the one I was meant to be doing of working on a building site.

I've always been of the opinion that the guest should be made comfortable. If he/she wants to take their shoes off or leave their shoes on, then so be it. What makes the host comfortable is irrelevant. Same with food. They can take as little or as much as they like. I don't understand hosts feeling it's ok to force their ways on a guest because it makes the host more comfortable. It's all about the guest IMO.
You follow the host's house rules. Why? It's called showing respect to the host who's been gracious enough to let you into their place.

I feel very comfortable farting - it is very relaxing. Would you be happy if I sat next to you as a guest in your house and let a few rip?

I don't tip. Not because I'm a jackass, but because I don't make enough money to pay for my meal, let alone give 15% of said cost to someone else. :p
I very rarely tip, because it's not part of the NZ culture. I grew up never needing to, nor even thinking about it. Hard to erase all those years.
Here in HK there's invariably a 10% service charge on everything so I take that to be the tip.


When I was in NZ last week I found myself $1 short at a cafe. I went back to the car to get my wallet, but on returning they told me not to worry about it. Feeling a tad embarassed over the situation I decided to alleviate my shame and put it in their tip jar. They didn't have one and they thought I was odd for asking after one.

I have a strange one for you.

I was riased as if it was the early 1900's (you know, repsect elders, no cursing, clean yur plate...) mostly by my Oma and Opa. My parents where there to, its just that both work so until I was old enough to babysit myself
(12) I was at their house overnight for at least 4 times a week. Then I hit High School last year (Grade 10) and it suddenly dawned on me that I wasnt normal. My Oma and Opa are Germans and proudly so, same with my Father. So whenever the teacher hands me a paper I always say thank you or sometimes even Danke.

Then I went to Alberta this year during the exam week (I had none this term) and visited family friends. I always said please and thank you to everything and I cooked for myself and all that.

To skip to the major point, they have a 16 year old daughter, I am also 16 (You can do the math) we were all drinking and then later that night I had no where to sleep all the party goers used the beds and couches. So she offered to share her bed with me. I did and fell asleep in like two seconds (30 ounces does that to a guy) In the morning I got up and everyone was looking at me as if I was an alien or something.

At the time I had no idea why. It dawned upon me on the way home that they wondered why I didnt try and have sex with her. I never even considered it becuase of my old fashioned raising.

LOL a bit long...
Mine is more of a generational culture gap than a national one but hey its strange nonetheless... :D

In my household, this taking off your shoes business is abnormal and insulting. I was raised to believe being asked, and deliberately taking off your shoes, was rude.

Canada, of First Nations ancestry.

I haven't once had a Canadian not remove their shoes in a house, though I can't speak for all corners of the country.

I wonder if it's because of our long winters and slushy springs? It's almost impossible during most times of the year to really clean your shoes off well, so you're going to be tracking in dirt.

Here it is rare and generally only in Asian-American households that one takes off one's shoes. In fact, when I used to go running around the house barefoot or just in my socks, my dad thought it was kinda stupid, as it was easier to injure my feet (which I did) that way.

You follow the host's house rules. Why? It's called showing respect to the host who's been gracious enough to let you into their place.

Why bother to invite someone into you home if you don't want to make them comfortable and ensure they enjoy their stay? If you're too rigid and controlling, you guests won't have a pleasant time.

I feel very comfortable farting - it is very relaxing. Would you be happy if I sat next to you as a guest in your house and let a few rip?

If that's your custom, have at it. It does me no harm.

You follow the host's house rules. Why? It's called showing respect to the host who's been gracious enough to let you into their place.

I feel very comfortable farting - it is very relaxing. Would you be happy if I sat next to you as a guest in your house and let a few rip?

LOL "So, what do you do to relax?" "Fart."

Never met anyone that could fart on command. Seriously.. I would hope a friend would be comfortable enough in my home to fart if they needed to. A guest probably wouldn't feel comfortable doing it. But I wouldn't fault them for it if they did 'let one rip'.

Here it is rare and generally only in Asian-American households that one takes off one's shoes. In fact, when I used to go running around the house barefoot or just in my socks, my dad thought it was kinda stupid, as it was easier to injure my feet (which I did) that way.

Do you commonly leave dangerous objects on the floor?

Um...yes you can...

As for Mayo and Fries...that is perhaps the most disgusting thing I have ever heard of. Fries are unhealthy enough (although delicious) without slapping more fat on them.
Maybe I am thinking about Ketchup chips. Either way it was retarded.

Its absolutely delicious. Mayo + fries = wet in the pants.

Do you commonly leave dangerous objects on the floor?

You mean like furniture? I frequently hurt my feet (as well as the rest of me) in the house when I go without shoes. Stubbing toes, getting my toes tangled on the edges of rugs and falling to the floor, and such things. But then I have a spine injury and some problems with walking. It's easier for me in shoes.

Its honestly common for me leave booze, knives, guns and other sorts of weapons just laying around the house- and people come over and question such practices. I tell them off- its normal for me. There are no young children over here ever so I really dont have to worry. I dont leave the guns loaded....

you dont have to keep them locked up or anything???

what if someone broke in (while you arnt there) and stole them all?

Do you commonly leave dangerous objects on the floor?

No. We had hardwood floors in the hall, which you could slip on in your socks if you weren't careful, and wooden baseboards on every wall that hurt quite a lot when I stubbed my toe on them. It's impossible for children to stub their toes in your house then?

In my culture, it is very rude to refuse a present. But you don't accept by simply saying "Thank you" - many people say things like "Oh, I can't accept that."

I can imagine a lot of misunderstandings, then you visit a turkish family and say something like "This is a nice clock". The Turks would then offer you the clock as present, but not really mean it. And if you say "I can't accept that" they'll withdraw their offer which is a great offense in my culture. ;)

I try to be as observant as possible, and very open minded when meeting people I don't know very well. This saves me from lots of embarrassing situations.

Why bother to invite someone into you home if you don't want to make them comfortable and ensure they enjoy their stay? If you're too rigid and controlling, you guests won't have a pleasant time.
If they invite you, and you accept, then you agree to do their customs. Otherwise, what's the point of accepting if you're not going to have a pleasant time? If the guests aren't enjoying themselves, they can easily leave, or politely ask the host.

(you Albertans fail at making Chinese food btw)
Yeah, but we invented the caesar, so let's call it even.