NationStates Jolt Archive

*hoards democracy*
It's mine, all mine!

lulz, im in ur tred, steeling ur op, and maekin a poll

China premier: Democracy 100 years away (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070227/ap_on_re_as/china_democracy;_ylt=AmhxcNETzmfLZK1RVuPF90PUCdEF)
Lovely. So much for actually meeting the standards of the civilised world and all that. Personally, I hoped to see democracy in China before I died... Thoughts?

Personally, I hoped to see democracy in China before I died... Thoughts?

You want to become immortal, don't you?

You want to become immortal, don't you?
Well, yes, but that's unrelated. :)
Is it really too much to hope for? The USSR eventually got around to it, after all.

Well, yes, but that's unrelated. :)
Is it really too much to hope for? The USSR eventually got around to it, after all.

or pretended to.

Meh. Big shock. Posturing from the Chinese government about economic reform before letting their people be free.

Of course, if they practiced what they preached, half of their population wouldn't be starving and working hellish, absurdly low-paying jobs.

Because democracy in Russia is really, really nice is it?

What occurs in Russia is as close to Democracy as... Say.... What occurs in Iran. You can vote, but there's only one candidate, and he's a petty tyrant.

Holy Time Warp, Batman!

Well, yes, but that's unrelated. :)
Is it really too much to hope for? The USSR eventually got around to it, after all.

Because democracy in Russia is really, really nice is it?

Oligarchs and ex-KGB to the fore...if that is what you want China to be I'm almost positive I'd rather it remained as it is/was.

Personally, I hoped to see democracy in China before I died... Thoughts?

Axl says he's releasing it this year.

Nothing very new here. I heard a Chinese government spokesman say much the same several years ago.


Democracy will emerge once a "mature socialist system" develops but that might not happen for up to 100 years, Premier Wen Jiabao wrote. [...]

The premier, China's No. 3 leader, said the country is "still far from advancing out of the primary stage of socialism. [...]

A highly developed democracy and a complete legal system are inherent requirements of the socialist system and important symbols of a mature socialist system," Wen said.


In other words, the official line is: We need to complete the stage of capitalism before we can move forward into socialism (and eventually into communism, in the distant future), at which point democracy will be gradually implemented.

Or, more accurately: We like power and money in our nifty one-party capitalist dictatorship, and we're holding on to it as long as we possibly can.

Holy Time Warp, Batman!

:D

Because democracy in Russia is really, really nice is it?

Oligarchs and ex-KGB to the fore...if that is what you want China to be I'm almost positive I'd rather it remained as it is/was.
Well, it's better than nothing. I admit I don't know much about Russian democracy, but I didn't think it was quite a dictatorship. Not yet Not great democracy, but better than nothing. Plus the standard of living in Russia is [slightly] better than in China.

It's 100 years too early for you to have democracy!

China premier: Democracy 100 years away (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070227/ap_on_re_as/china_democracy;_ylt=AmhxcNETzmfLZK1RVuPF90PUCdEF)
Lovely. So much for actually meeting the standards of the civilised world and all that. Personally, I hoped to see democracy in China before I died... Thoughts?He said it might be up to 100 years away. Diving headfirst into democracy wouldn't be a very good move in the short term; a gradual evolution towards it might be more suitable.
Just look at Russia; first years of economic turmoil, and now just democracy in name, but not actually.

If you want to see democracy in China before you die, I can only suggest you postpone dying.

It's 100 years too early for you to have democracy!
Well, China can't have democracy if they don't know what it entails and how to use it properly. They might be irresponsible and vote against the government! :eek: Can't have that, now, can we?

Nothing very new here. I heard a Chinese government spokesman say much the same several years ago.



In other words, the official line is: We need to complete the stage of capitalism before we can move forward into socialism (and eventually into communism, in the distant future), at which point democracy will be gradually implemented.

Or, more accurately: We like power and money in our nifty one-party capitalist dictatorship, and we're holding on to it as long as we possibly can.

Of course socialism takes freedom away from the masses. Socialism = Communism = Dictatorship NOT Democracy. You are giving more power to the government and not the people. The United States does not even have an actual total democracy but rather a limited democracy. It's very difficult to keep a proper working government and it varies from place to place. Perhaps someday China will have a different form of government but they have to want this and do it themselves. No other nations should get into the business of forcing other governments or people of other nation's to do something. If it's happening in your country then you have to be the fighter.

I say the last thing anyone wants is democracy in China, a population that is imperialist and with the delusion that not only are they a superpower but also that they are the greatest thing since fluffy clouds does not a stable nation make

Well, it's better than nothing. I admit I don't know much about Russian democracy, but I didn't think it was quite a dictatorship. Not yet

Putin is a dictator in all but name...well the hands that go in the puppet are anyways

the standard of living in Russia is [slightly] better than in China.

depends on average China is worse but that’s been the case for a few centuries hasn’t it

Meh. Big shock. Posturing from the Chinese government about economic reform before letting their people be free.

Of course, if they practiced what they preached, half of their population wouldn't be starving and working hellish, absurdly low-paying jobs.

But then all their jobs would go to mexico!:rolleyes:

Well, China can't have democracy if they don't know what it entails and how to use it properly. They might be irresponsible and vote against the government! :eek: Can't have that, now, can we?

I think in all seriousness they need at least some time to fully introduce democracy. You can't just try to instill it instantly, or everything goes to shit, as seen in many different countries around the world for the past few centuries.

Besides, I was quoting various animes there anyway. (I'm fully aware that anime is Japanese, but it was just too good an opportunity to pass up quoting that.)

I think in all seriousness they need at least some time to fully introduce democracy. You can't just try to instill it instantly, or everything goes to shit, as seen in many different countries around the world for the past few centuries.

Besides, I was quoting various animes there anyway. (I'm fully aware that anime is Japanese, but it was just too good an opportunity to pass up quoting that.)
hmm... what about WGermany/Japan after WWII or Taiwan?

I agree, I guess. But of course, a hundred years is just slightly excessive. What struck me was here they were actually acknowledging democratic reform as a good direction for China to go in, or so it seemed to me, but they just don't want to implement it.

But then all their jobs would go to mexico!:rolleyes:

Which would, in turn, give populist Chinese leaders a target for complaint (those damn Burmese sneaking across our southern border and stealing CHINESE jobs), allowing them to pass laws that would grant them even more power over citizens.

That way, everyone wins. The dictators get more power, the people get enough food to eat, and the Burmese/Mexicans get the absurdly low-paying jobs. Rinse and repeat.

hmm... what about WGermany/Japan after WWII or Taiwan?

I agree, I guess. But of course, a hundred years is just slightly excessive. What struck me was here they were actually acknowledging democratic reform as a good direction for China to go in, or so it seemed to me, but they just don't want to implement it.
Yep; not until the last Chinese citizen with a grudge dating back to either the Cultural Revolution or Tiananmen Incident is dead and buried. Too many odds of the CCP being tried wholesale otherwise; better to wait until they can safely keep their "earnings," and maybe change their name to the "Chinese Socialist Party" once the other parties in the People's Political Consultative Conference gain real representation.
That said, however, I actually like the structure of the Chinese government. It keeps the country on the ruling party's desired ideological direction, and yet allows for at least token opposition and debate when those are required. Namely, in the form of the aforementioned National People's Political Consultative Conference, with its legalized gadfly parties including a "Peoples Guomindang/Kuomintang" composed of Chinese Nationalists who accepted the supremacy of the Chinese Communist Party in 1949, while Jiang Jieshi/Chiang Kai-Shek skedaddled to Taiwan. This body wrote the current constitution of the PRC, and functioned as a de-facto legislature throughout the Korean War since the National People's Congress didn't first convene until 1954. Democracy may be nice in principle, but dictatorship is tried-and-true in practice since millenia ago; and not at all unethical if the dictator is an ethical ruler themselves, mind. (This being the usual problem of course...:()

*hoards democracy*
It's mine, all mine!

lulz, im in ur tred, steeling ur op
FAIL!
*Doesn't really, it's actually quite well done.*

I actually think China will be fully democratic (or at least as democratic as Eastern Europe) in a relatively short time. Maybe 15 to 25 years

a population that is imperialist and with the delusion that not only are they a superpower but also that they are the greatest thing since fluffy clouds does not a stable nation make
Heh... sounds familiar...

Of course socialism takes freedom away from the masses. Socialism = Communism = Dictatorship NOT Democracy. You are giving more power to the government and not the people. The United States does not even have an actual total democracy but rather a limited democracy. It's very difficult to keep a proper working government and it varies from place to place. Perhaps someday China will have a different form of government but they have to want this and do it themselves. No other nations should get into the business of forcing other governments or people of other nation's to do something. If it's happening in your country then you have to be the fighter.
Oh lord in heaven...

Oh lord in heaven...

Why do I keep coming back to this forum? All I have to show for it now is a headache. :(

Why do I keep coming back to this forum? All I have to show for it now is a headache. :(
Have a :fluffle: to make it better. And it's because NSG is more addictive than Nicotine, Heroin, Cocaine, Alcohol, full fat milk and masturbation put together.

(I do hope you aren't a part of the anti-fluffle brigade!:eek: )

Have a :fluffle: to make it better. And it's because NSG is more addictive than Nicotine, Heroin, Cocaine, Alcohol, full fat milk and masturbation put together.

(I do hope you aren't a part of the anti-fluffle brigade!:eek: )

Hmm...I dunno about that, but at least it doesn't cost money like those other things.

Nah. :fluffle:

FAIL!
*Doesn't really, it's actually quite well done.*

LIES!
Except the white bit, that's true

they will prolly just keep saying that every 50 years.

Wait, what the hell? A poll? Usurper, usurper! Retake the thread from the forces of evil! *attacks Ifreann with rolled up newspaper*

Out of this thread with ye who has the unholy power to bend OPs to his will.

Wait, what the hell? A poll? Usurper, usurper! Retake the thread from the forces of evil! *attacks Ifreann with rolled up newspaper*

Out of this thread with ye who has the unholy power to bend OPs to his will.

We are the Borg. Your post count and sig will be added to our own. Your threads will be assimilated. Resistence is futile.



Alternatively: All Your Thread Are Belong To Ifreann.

We are the Borg. Your post count and sig will be added to our own. Your threads will be assimilated. Resistence is futile.



Alternatively: All Your Thread Are Belong To Ifreann.
I'm in yr threadz, stealing yr poll.:eek:

We are the Borg. Your post count and sig will be added to our own. Your threads will be assimilated. Resistence is futile.



Alternatively: All Your Thread Are Belong To Ifreann.

Stealing OPs like a cheeky little ninja.
Except not.

Quite honestly, I don't care if China "converts" to democracy or not. In fact, they already have a democracy- an aliberal democracy, but a democracy nonetheless. What I'd rather see is them changing the mercantilist economic structure of exchanging cheap manufacturing goods for American assets, as well as loosening up the restrictions on civil liberties. That would be better than some election.

What is with that poll?

Because democracy in Russia is really, really nice is it?

Oligarchs and ex-KGB to the fore...if that is what you want China to be I'm almost positive I'd rather it remained as it is/was.Caution: the sentence below suffers from a major lack of fullstops.

What, as opposed to US democracy where you only get the oligarchs? Ergo Russia is more democratic than the US because you get a REAL choice. You can either vote for the autocratic ex-KGB man who's still secretly in love with communism and wants to take all your money and pump into the military to supress ethnic minorities, or you can vote for the man entirely motivated by greed, who doesn't give a shit about the country just so long as the oil keeps flowing so that he can finally save up enough to buy that Premiership football club he dreams about.

I’m in yr threadz, stealing yr poll.:eek:
Picard?

Ifreann is like Black Mage and Red Mage (www.nuklearpower.com) mixed together, with a little bit of Ethan (www.cad-comic.com) thrown into the mix.

It might come sooner. First of all, realize that the current generation of Chinese leaders will be dead and buried in another twenty years. If we are lucky, the next bunch will be a little more reform-minded.

Second, the Chinese have been covering up large-scale peasant unrest. Unless they address the concerns of the peasants (which they might), they could experience the greatest irony in history - a peasant revolt against a Communist government.

Oh, and Szanth? Black Mage is going to stab you for comparing him with Red Mage. Yes, you didn't actually compare him. He's just looking for a pretext.

LIES!
Except the white bit, that's true
PRAVDA!
Did you steal the poll?

What is with that poll?
Awesome, no?
Ifreann is like Black Mage and Red Mage (www.nuklearpower.com) mixed together, with a little bit of Ethan (www.cad-comic.com) thrown into the mix.
Yay, I think.
PRAVDA!
Did you steal the poll?
OBLIGATORY NOT WHITE TEXT!
I stole the OP, so eventually it became my thread, thus I made the poll