NationStates Jolt Archive

Basically along with the other thread, but a more focused discussion on what people REALLY believe about this. I am unsure.

I neither accept nor deny the existence of extra terrestrials

I’m best friends with a few aliens though…

I would assume that it's highly likely that they exist.
But I would also think it's highly unlikely that they are advanced enough to be able to make contact. My guess is that on most plantets or moons, they'd probably be in protozoic state.

I would have voted that Aliens do exist and may be here, but that wasn't an option so I went with the one that they are about to invade:D

I would assume that it's highly likely that they exist.
But I would also think it's highly unlikely that they are advanced enough to be able to make contact. My guess is that on most plantets or moons, they'd probably be in protozoic state.

I don't understand how scientists figure that though, I mean we, and all millions of different species of lifeforms on our planet developed according to science from such primitive origins. According to some standards, we are a young world. Though according to other standards we are only in part of a massive "period" of Earth's history, and there could have been lifeforms or civilizations on the Earth long ago before our knowledge that were destroyed.

I mean even 65 million years ago supposedly we had lifeforms in the forms of dinosaurs that were very different to what we have today. So why could intelligent life not have formed on another planet somewhere, and that species became more advanced than humanity?

I honestly don't see whats so crazy about another intellegent life form(s) evolving in the universe. The Universe is extremely old (in a literal sence) and extremely huge. There are most likley millions of civilizations out there. I also don't see whats so crazy about a more advanced civilization visiting here sometimes, just checking us out to see what we're all about, kinda the same thing we'd do- They probably havent made direct contact because they probably feel we like aren't ready or somthing, and I've seen enough evidence to believe they may have has contact with ancient civilizations. Having said that I have seen a couple UFO's- No I wasnt hallucinating, it wasnt a weather ballon either. It was freaking crazy, The shit I seen those things do- it was far far more advanced than anything to government could have as well- Unless they have invented teleportation.

I don't understand how scientists figure that though, I mean we, and all millions of different species of lifeforms on our planet developed according to science from such primitive origins. According to some standards, we are a young world. Though according to other standards we are only in part of a massive "period" of Earth's history, and there could have been lifeforms or civilizations on the Earth long ago before our knowledge that were destroyed

I'm not a scientist, I'm just trying to evaluate probabilities. And the probabilities that planets exist that can support protozoic life are higher than the probabilities of planets with further evolved life forms.
I'm not saying that no further evolved life forms exist anywhere else in space (given it's size, I would be more than surprised not to find them somewhere), but I assume that there are more planets, planetoids etc. that carry protozoic life than higher evolved species.

And the questions about being sufficiently advanced to be able to make contact is determined by the fact that to out knowledge so far, there's no feasible way to do so, as it's nearly impossible to physically cross the distances involved. We've ourselves not yet reached another planet in our own solar system, let alone left it and reached Alpha Centauri.

I've seen enough evidence to believe they may have has contact with ancient civilizations.

isn't that all clap-trap made by mad 40+ men who hate Egyptians?

isn't that all clap-trap made by mad 40+ men who hate Egyptians?

No there are quiet a few Africans who believe that about Egypt as well as various archaeologists (not all fringe). There have been cave paintings found that are weird in terms of seeming to perpetuate the idea of a UFO with something coming out, but maybe its a natural human occuring idea like gods or vampires that exists in all cultures.

isn't that all clap-trap made by mad 40+ men who hate Egyptians?

Well, I dont believe at all the aliens built the pyramids or stonehenge- they are amazingly accurate however- anyways, I watched some shows once were the Mayan art works depicted weird beings wearing helmets- that came from the stars in odd craft- and midevil dipictions of devil like creaters making crop circles, and cave paintings of wierd craft and beings, On opposite ends of the world and reletivley detailed.....

Well, I dont believe at all the aliens built the pyramids or stonehenge- they are amazingly accurate however- anyways, I watched some shows once were the Mayan art works depicted weird beings wearing helmets- that came from the stars in odd craft- and midevil dipictions of devil like creaters making crop circles, and cave paintings of wierd craft and beings, On opposite ends of the world and reletivley detailed.....

I do find the stories interesting.

They are actually called ancient astronaut theories . To me their more interesting from the point that perhaps just like today people have been seeing an atmospheric effect, or some kind of effect. If we see what looks like UFOs today, perhaps they did back then as well. (Not saying I believe they are in fact "alien UFOs"

More than space aliens, I am actually more interested in hollow earth theories , in that not that I believe the Earth is hollow, but that every culture almost has had stories of underground kingdoms or races that emerge from underground (stories separate from conceptions of death or the underworld).

I believe that intelligent alien life within contact range is almost infinitely unlikely. I generally agree with the anthropocentric crowd -- those that claim that the universe and the solar system seem "fine-tuned" to support human life -- but not for the reasons you might think. Many scientists believe that there are infinitely many parallel universes, each one varying slightly in their physical make-up. Assuming that this is true, and assuming that the anthropocentrists are right in their claims that life is incredibly improbable, I think it's safe to say that we're alone. Because if life is rare and there are many universes, then it makes sense that the vast majority of them would be lifeless, and only a handful would happen to have all the conditions necessary for life. Our universe, I think, is one of those handful.

Also, even if this universe were rare enough to generate two instances of life, what are the chances that both would develop to the space-faring stage at almost the exact same time and place, cosmically speaking? The odds of this are vanishingly small. I think it's safe to say that we are alone in this universe, and that the only possible alien life in this universe is either too distant or too primitive to ever make a difference to us.

Well, I dont believe at all the aliens built the pyramids or stonehenge- they are amazingly accurate however- anyways, I watched some shows once were the Mayan art works depicted weird beings wearing helmets- that came from the stars in odd craft- and midevil dipictions of devil like creaters making crop circles, and cave paintings of wierd craft and beings, On opposite ends of the world and reletivley detailed.....

Those stories are quite interesting, remeber one example of a Madonna and Child from the Middle Ages/Reniassance that over Mary's shoulder had a man on a hill pointing up at a black object in the sky shaped a bit like a collapsed tophat. All this stuff in general is rather fascinating if you look into. Personally I'm only lightly into it due to my dad's interest in it, I do remember interviewing the Head of the Physics department at the local state colledge who was also the head of the local chapter of MUFON about it for a paper in high school, which was quite interesting seeing someone with some pretty nice credentials actualy advocating instead of debunking.

Yea, there are several medieval portraits as well as ancient art that has UFOs.

It at least shows the UFO phenomenon, as a phenomenon that occurs across cultures and ages is worthy of study. It could be atmospheric effects, psychological, etc. Just like the many myths of vampiric creatures across the cultures that exist for no other reason it seems but are just as common as the belief in gods.

I do find the stories interesting.



More than space aliens, I am actually more interested in hollow earth theories , in that not that I believe the Earth is hollow, but that every culture almost has had stories of underground kingdoms or races that emerge from underground (stories separate from conceptions of death or the underworld).

Yeah, those hollow earth stories are wild! I do think its funny though, hwo there is a creepy cultic small Nazi beliefe that Hitler actually retreated into the "hollow earth" at the end of ww2 with a U-Boat via a hole in the North pole, and he rules a kingdom of Aryians in there and is planning to rise again...hehehehehe, but yeah, some of there other cultures hollow earth theories are quite fabulous, I'd like to know what the origins of them are.

Those stories are quite interesting, remeber one example of a Madonna and Child from the Middle Ages/Reniassance that over Mary's shoulder had a man on a hill pointing up at a black object in the sky shaped a bit like a collapsed tophat. All this stuff in general is rather fascinating if you look into. Personally I'm only lightly into it due to my dad's interest in it, I do remember interviewing the Head of the Physics department at the local state colledge who was also the head of the local chapter of MUFON about it for a paper in high school, which was quite interesting seeing someone with some pretty nice credentials actualy advocating instead of debunking.

Yeah, I've seen that, there are a few other art works with similar things. I personally believe that all this evidence is more than just mass hysteria, its quite interesting when you actually look into the events themselves. Most people who set out to debunk all UFO claims eventuall run into something that changes their mind completley and before you know it they're being called crazy. I think the chuckle factor accociated with UFO's is sickening. forgive my horrid grammar.

There are dozens of Solar sistem and every solar system has got hundred-billions of stars, planets and moons. I'd say that there a big fucking chance one of those planets is inhabited and maybe even advanced enough to go into space.

Never saw a green mars kinda guy though.

There are dozens of Solar sistem and every solar system has got hundred-billions of stars, planets and moons. I'd say that there a big fucking chance one of those planets is inhabited and maybe even advanced enough to go into space.

Never saw a green mars kinda guy though.

I did :

http://unn13.com/sophia/images/marvin_martian2_thiscartoon.jpg

well i KNOW "they" exist, because my previous lives were all on tangable material worlds, just like this earth is a tangable material world, where people walked arround in tangable material life forms, like we do here, that were NOT this world, nor looked anything like we look here, nor any two worlds where there are sentient people do they look anything like from one world like from another nor even be able to breath the same air without at least filters.

as for being HERE, people who don't look like people here, from some other tangable, material, physical place other then here, well it is BIG universe and distances are kinda large too. you DO know it IS at least ten years as the light beam flies to the nearest rock and damd near 20 to anyplace you might consider a tourist attraction.

plus there IS the minor little detail of earth's current stage of development itself rather strongly encourages avoidance other then indirect observation. then there's that other minor detail of the galactica united nation's quaranteening it from more direct interference until it grows up a little more on its own then it seems to have yet to.

some day that latter will be lifted, hopefully, if the dominant species of earth doesn't destroy itself first. if it does manage to poke its nose out there on its own it WILL meet the local cop on the corner and be reminded to behaive itself.

=^^=
.../\...

of course they exist. But they have never been here. They might have seen this world from theirs through some kind of Terrestrial Planet Finder (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrestrial Planet Finder) telescope or similar, and maybe even sent a radio signal to attempt to communicate, but that's about the limit of it. Even if they did attempt to communicate, that radio signal most likely arrived millions of years before we even evolved, or won't get here until thousands of years after we're gone/reverted back to a non-technological state/become posthumans existing in virtual computer worlds who would never expend energy on pointless frivolities such as realspace exploration. The communicating period for a civilization is probably far too small, and the distances involved far too large, for any kind of meaningful dialogue to take place between two civilizations, imo.

And pray that there's intelligent life somewhere up in space, 'cos there's bugger all down here on Earth. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9JSR_6qfXTg)

I did :

http://unn13.com/sophia/images/marvin_martian2_thiscartoon.jpg

:D have not seen him for sometime

Aliens exist, I guess, but why, and more importantly how, would they contact us?

I would state that it's almost certain alien life exists, but less so that they have discovered Earth.

I think it's possible, however, that once a lifeform develops a sentient consciousness and masters space travel that the lifespan of that species as a whole becomes virtually infinite. That would vastly improve our odds of eventually contacting another species.

Of course aliens exist, and they most definately have contacted us. One of them posts here under the name of "Lunatic Goofballs"

WE'RE ALL GONNA DIE haha no not realli i dun believe it simply because we shouldn't call them aliens maybe visitors :P

there is a colony of aliens living in my ear. took me ages to track down where the voices were coming from, but i eventually found them! they're fucking rude too, you don't want to know what they've been saying about us.

WE'RE ALL GONNA DIE haha no not realli i dun believe it simply because we shouldn't call them aliens maybe visitors :P

You don't believe there are aliens. You believe this because we should call them visitors. But that implies that you believe they exist....


Ow, my brain. :confused:

You don't believe there are aliens. You believe this because we should call them visitors. But that implies that you believe they exist....


Ow, my brain. :confused:

just ask the tea lady to put some thing strong in your tea

Basically along with the other thread, but a more focused discussion on what people REALLY believe about this. I am unsure.

No, they don't exist (and I say this with the same certainty of anyone who says they do) and we have not had contact. There is no government cover-up, Roswell is a bunch of horseshit, and we DID make it to the moon.

I consider it highly likely aliens exist, some perhaps millions or billions of years ahead of us.

No, they don't exist (and I say this with the same certainty of anyone who says they do) and we have not had contact. There is no government cover-up, Roswell is a bunch of horseshit, and we DID make it to the moon.

I don't believe any of that any way, this is just a general thread for what people think of the possibility of aliens (or better termed extraterrestial lifeforms) on other planets. I don't think there is an "government coverup".

Yeah, those hollow earth stories are wild! I do think its funny though, hwo there is a creepy cultic small Nazi beliefe that Hitler actually retreated into the "hollow earth" at the end of ww2 with a U-Boat via a hole in the North pole, and he rules a kingdom of Aryians in there and is planning to rise again...hehehehehe, but yeah, some of there other cultures hollow earth theories are quite fabulous, I'd like to know what the origins of them are.

If you like hollow earth theories, look up the J-horror film Marebito, they touch on the topic somewhat.

Onto the topic at hand: There may be intelligent life out there, but it hasn't come here, yet.
Roswell, ah yes, Roswell. What really happened: A balloon, albeit not a weather balloon, crashed in the desert. It was covered up not because of aliens, but because it was an experimental high-altitude recon balloon designed to spy on the Soviet Union.

UFO's: Nothing more than objects shifting into the visual spectrum of light (white light) from other spectrums (infrared, ultraviolet). Read Mothman Prophecies by John Keel for a more thourough explanation.

If you like hollow earth theories, look up the J-horror film Marebito, they touch on the topic somewhat.

Onto the topic at hand: There may be intelligent life out there, but it hasn't come here, yet.
Roswell, ah yes, Roswell. What really happened: A balloon, albeit not a weather balloon, crashed in the desert. It was covered up not because of aliens, but because it was an experimental high-altitude recon balloon designed to spy on the Soviet Union.

UFO's: Nothing more than objects shifting into the visual spectrum of light (white light) from other spectrums (infrared, ultraviolet). Read Mothman Prophecies by John Keel for a more thourough explanation.


Speaking of high-altitude recon balloon, I was traveling through literally countryside with my parents one time in New Mexico (Or was it Arizona?) down one of those long long 100 mile stretches of nothingness two-lane roads (Why my parents took these scary backroads I don't know, they do generally have an upbeat positive attitude. Those roads get freaking creepy as the sun sets). and I look off to the right, and I see in the distance a HUGE silver (like foil silver, very bright) balloon. It had to have been a balloon. It wasnt saucer shaped, but like a balloon, and was floating somewhat off the ground. I had to look close to make sure it was not a mirage or sun effect, but I definitely saw the material of it. What was strange to me was I saw no other military vehicles around, but it was slightly over a hill so I could not make out what was on the ground below it. It had to be military or scientific testing though.

Unrelated Note: (I LOVE JAPANESE HORROR FLICKS)

I'm almoust certain that ET life excists. The universe is built up by the same subjects that excist on the earth and by looking at how big the universe is one can say that we, the humans, aren't anything speciall at all. The earth is just a tiny, meaningless spot in the universe and we humans like to think that we are something special, but we aren't. The universe wasn't given to us as some might think.

I don't believe any of that any way, this is just a general thread for what people think of the possibility of aliens (or better termed extraterrestial lifeforms) on other planets. I don't think there is an "government coverup".

Haha, no I didn't mean to suggest you do. I was speaking in general terms, it wasn't intended as a personal slight, my apologies. :)

I have zero doubt in my mind that aliens exist. I highly doubt that they have been here, and I highly doubt that they will be here anytime soon. I also highly doubt that we'll find them anytime soon either. In fact, we may never find them before humanity becomes extinct, but that doesn't change the fact that simply due to the fact that there are so many galaxies and so many stars there is indeed other life out there.

Aliens exist, but our planet is too insignificant to contact

There are almost certainly intelligent exterrestrials. Maybe when intelligent terrestrials become common, they'll visit.

Life didn't evolve only on Earth because the conditions happened to be perfect for it. The conditions were perfect because life involved.

If I'm not making myself clear, scientists tend to assume that all life in the universe has to be like us (i.e. carbon-based, requiring water and oxygen to survive), and then goes on to state that such life would require rocky planets about X distance from the sun, which has to have Y intensity, and so on.

For all we know, alien beings are lithium-based, eat rocks, and breathe chlorine.... or not even corporeal at all. (I RP a race of aliens that no longer has bodies, for instance.) This means that they would be as unable to survive on our world as we would on theirs, so it's highly unlikely such alien races have actually visited us, and even less likely that any race has developed a means of interstellar travel. And the probability of humanoid races is extremely low. However, that doesn't rule out other forms of civilised life. For example, lithium-based beings could have their own weird forms of government, or architecture, or tradition, or culture etc. We simply don't know, and probably won't know for a very, very long time.

I've been making contact with an alien several nights a week. Really nice looking woman from Europe.

You mean from another planet? No. Odds are if life did evolve somewhere else it would be so radically different from ours it's questionable if we'd even be able to recognize each other as intelligent.

Do aliens exist? Absolutely. We've seen possible traces of life on Mars, and that's within our own solar system.

Does sentient alien life exist? Absolutely. There sheer scale of the universe and the sheer variety of conditions guarantees that there are a significant number of alien civilizations out there capable of interaction with human beings. That doesn't mean contact will be mutually intelligible or produce any meaningful results in the short term, but it is possible.

Have they visited us? I don't know. Given the sheer number of what-ifs and possible conditions regarding the plausibility and technological feasibility of aliens visiting Earth, I don't think we could possibly know for sure barring an obvious attempt by an alien species to contact us.

Life didn't evolve only on Earth because the conditions happened to be perfect for it. The conditions were perfect because life involved.

If I'm not making myself clear, scientists tend to assume that all life in the universe has to be like us (i.e. carbon-based, requiring water and oxygen to survive), and then goes on to state that such life would require rocky planets about X distance from the sun, which has to have Y intensity, and so on.

For all we know, alien beings are lithium-based, eat rocks, and breathe chlorine.... or not even corporeal at all. (I RP a race of aliens that no longer has bodies, for instance.) This means that they would be as unable to survive on our world as we would on theirs, so it's highly unlikely such alien races have actually visited us, and even less likely that any race has developed a means of interstellar travel. And the probability of humanoid races is extremely low. However, that doesn't rule out other forms of civilised life. For example, lithium-based beings could have their own weird forms of government, or architecture, or tradition, or culture etc. We simply don't know, and probably won't know for a very, very long time.


Scientists were shocked I read about a planet's atmosphere, or what they think it is recently. It seemed there are weather patterns but no waterform that would seem to affect the weather patterns or something of that nature.


If they did have different forms, or were altogether different than why /not/ ability to travel interstellar? Perhaps their entire technological development was dramatically different than ours (Different ways to power things, etc.). Of course because we are unsure in all kinds of fields (psionic/psychic power, does it exist, etc.) we cannot imagine the full capacity for varius things another race might have.

I too think the probability of humanoid races is very low. I don't think we're going to see anything like a "Babylon 5" or Star Trek. Though the Vorlons may indeed be, scarily, something like we might encounter if they were energetic beings. (As someone else mentioned something about Vorlons in another thread). Perhaps Star War's freakish aliens might be accurate as well, heh.

Aliens may exist, and I would actually rather hope that they do exist, but we've yet to make contact with them.

I hope they aren't entirely peaceful, not warlike, but not entirely peaceful. As if they're entirely peaceful, we're quite like to conquer and enslave them, just out of spite.

Scientists were shocked I read about a planet's atmosphere, or what they think it is recently. It seemed there are weather patterns but no waterform that would seem to affect the weather patterns or something of that nature.


If they did have different forms, or were altogether different than why /not/ ability to travel interstellar? Perhaps their entire technological development was dramatically different than ours (Different ways to power things, etc.). Of course because we are unsure in all kinds of fields (psionic/psychic power, does it exist, etc.) we cannot imagine the full capacity for varius things another race might have.

I too think the probability of humanoid races is very low. I don't think we're going to see anything like a "Babylon 5" or Star Trek. Though the Vorlons may indeed be, scarily, something like we might encounter if they were energetic beings. (As someone else mentioned something about Vorlons in another thread). Perhaps Star War's freakish aliens might be accurate as well, heh.

Of course, the equivalent argument could also be made that we are likely to find creatures that a roughly humanoid. It's the old argument that nature finds a form that works, and then repeats it over and over. Bubbles being the classic example. Trillions of bubbles have been made, all over the world, in all sorts of different environments, with all sorts of different materials (be it soap bubbles in air, or magma bubbles underwater), yet they always wind up being roundish.

I'm not saying you're wrong, that's for certain, I'm just saying that we don't know enough to be able to tell what we'd come across out there.

No-one today seriously contends that alien life does not exist, anyone who does is (rightly) laughed out of the room.

So, if alien life exists, then it is probably monocellular, that I concede. Indeed, the step between no-life to monocellular life is probably easier to bridge than the gap between monocellular and multicellular life.

But, as soon as multicellular life is there, you are pretty much set. Life is one of the most aggressively expanding phenomena known to exist. It will attempt to fill every niche available, and even create new niches that were not available.

This last point is important. Perhaps some are familiar with Gaia Theory, which has some rather outlandish ramifications, but at its core contends that life, through its ability to alter environmental conditions, can create biospheres where none existed before. This is backed up by early Earth's history. The surface was almost completely uninhabitable, but gradual encroachment by simple lifeforms were able to remove the harmful gases from the atmosphere while replacing them with gases more suitable for life.

This process will occur anywhere where life is present. It may take a while, but it will always occur. It is not within life's nature to allow oppurtunities to not be seized.

Intelligence, on the other hand, has no great invisible hand guiding it into existance (unless it does, but that is going into theological grounds, which we shall avoid here). Intelligence is a purely random occurance, but, random occurances, in large enough samples, do occur. We often think that intelligence emerging on Earth was an extremely unlikely event, but while we are probably within the minority as a planet with intelligent life, we are (according to sheer probability) not the first to have developed it, especially if you consider the relative youth of our planet and the large number of mass extinction events that have plagued us.

So, lets assume there may have been an intelligent alien race quite some time before our own evolution. In order to survive as an intelligent species, you must be curious, as development of intelligence necessitates the foresaking of other properties (speed, strength, etc.), and curiosity is the only way in which you are going to be able to successfully solve every problem that comes your way.

Any curious civilisation will inevitably want to explore. Any exploratory civilisation is eventually going to get into space. And, if it is possible, any such society will develop Faster-Than-Light transportation. This is the only point in my argument where I make a leap of faith when I assume FTL is possible, everything else logically follows.

So, there is one obvious next step for a space-faring civilisation. Colonisation of other planets. If no colonisable planets are available, then terraformation will take place. Gradually, around stars where ancient aliens dwelled, bubbles of large concentrations of habitable planets will appear. Perhaps then, the original empire will crumble, but that doesn't matter, because there still be people on the outlaying colonies to pick up the pieces and, after a brief Dark Age, begin the process again. Spreading the bubbles of inhabitability. Even if the colonising species becomes entirely extinct, they have still left organically-rich biospheres on their planets. Planets where new intelligent species could develop and begin the process again.

It is possible that this process has been going on for billions of years! There could be very many more inhabitable planets than sheer probability alone would suggest. There are probably very many more aliens than sheer probability alone would suggest.

Have they been to Earth? Impossible to know. Perhaps Earth was originally terraformed by local empire and then abandoned to the indigenous floraequefaunae. Or maybe we are one of the lucky few who developed on our own, and our immediate neighbourhood may be uninhabited. Probabilistically, the former seems more likely :D.

Basically along with the other thread, but a more focused discussion on what people REALLY believe about this. I am unsure.

Of course we exist. :cool:

I reckon aliens have visited the Earth, but left without making contact.
They were looking for intelligent life.

other life does exist somewhere, sometime(past, present or future)in the universe the odds are in favour of that....the odds that we will ever encounter another intelligent life form? so small that it might as well be nil...

this may or may not be true, but I recall a TV program saying with that the SETI program will determine in about 25 yrs if we're alone in our galaxy or not...

Alone in radio broadcasting, at least.

other life does exist somewhere, sometime(past, present or future)in the universe the odds are in favour of that....the odds that we will ever encounter another intelligent life form? so small that it might as well be nil...

this may or may not be true, but I recall a TV program saying with that the SETI program will determine in about 25 yrs if we're alone in our galaxy or not...

Alone in radio broadcasting, at least.

it's a communication every intelligent life form will use sooner or later, if they don't they'll never be found so we'll be alone because we'll never find each other without it.....

Of course there are aliens. Just up the road in Roswell, they tried to land but their craft crashed and the guvment has been hiding the remains ever since. I have placed a weather station in my pasture and put out an array of solar powered lights so that they can land in peace and harmony. Of course my neighbors think it is just a pretty arrangement but I've got them fooled. So far only the bashful aliens have landed so I've never actually seen them, but I'm sure that if I am patient and keep those lights going, they'll eventually knock on the door and say howdy.

All I know is that an alien world better look really cool.

No-one today seriously contends that alien life does not exist, anyone who does is (rightly) laughed out of the room.

So, if alien life exists, then it is probably monocellular, that I concede. Indeed, the step between no-life to monocellular life is probably easier to bridge than the gap between monocellular and multicellular life.

But, as soon as multicellular life is there, you are pretty much set. Life is one of the most aggressively expanding phenomena known to exist. It will attempt to fill every niche available, and even create new niches that were not available.

This last point is important. Perhaps some are familiar with Gaia Theory, which has some rather outlandish ramifications, but at its core contends that life, through its ability to alter environmental conditions, can create biospheres where none existed before. This is backed up by early Earth's history. The surface was almost completely uninhabitable, but gradual encroachment by simple lifeforms were able to remove the harmful gases from the atmosphere while replacing them with gases more suitable for life.

This process will occur anywhere where life is present. It may take a while, but it will always occur. It is not within life's nature to allow oppurtunities to not be seized.

Intelligence, on the other hand, has no great invisible hand guiding it into existance (unless it does, but that is going into theological grounds, which we shall avoid here). Intelligence is a purely random occurance, but, random occurances, in large enough samples, do occur. We often think that intelligence emerging on Earth was an extremely unlikely event, but while we are probably within the minority as a planet with intelligent life, we are (according to sheer probability) not the first to have developed it, especially if you consider the relative youth of our planet and the large number of mass extinction events that have plagued us.

So, lets assume there may have been an intelligent alien race quite some time before our own evolution. In order to survive as an intelligent species, you must be curious, as development of intelligence necessitates the foresaking of other properties (speed, strength, etc.), and curiosity is the only way in which you are going to be able to successfully solve every problem that comes your way.

Any curious civilisation will inevitably want to explore. Any exploratory civilisation is eventually going to get into space. And, if it is possible, any such society will develop Faster-Than-Light transportation. This is the only point in my argument where I make a leap of faith when I assume FTL is possible, everything else logically follows.

So, there is one obvious next step for a space-faring civilisation. Colonisation of other planets. If no colonisable planets are available, then terraformation will take place. Gradually, around stars where ancient aliens dwelled, bubbles of large concentrations of habitable planets will appear. Perhaps then, the original empire will crumble, but that doesn't matter, because there still be people on the outlaying colonies to pick up the pieces and, after a brief Dark Age, begin the process again. Spreading the bubbles of inhabitability. Even if the colonising species becomes entirely extinct, they have still left organically-rich biospheres on their planets. Planets where new intelligent species could develop and begin the process again.

It is possible that this process has been going on for billions of years! There could be very many more inhabitable planets than sheer probability alone would suggest. There are probably very many more aliens than sheer probability alone would suggest.

Have they been to Earth? Impossible to know. Perhaps Earth was originally terraformed by local empire and then abandoned to the indigenous floraequefaunae. Or maybe we are one of the lucky few who developed on our own, and our immediate neighbourhood may be uninhabited. Probabilistically, the former seems more likely :D.

Fascinating reflection! I agree that it is likely that, considering the same processes going on all across the universe, surely there is alien life somewhere. I find it interesting about that theory, and observation that life helped create the atmosphere. It does indeed go back to living organisms supporting other living organisms (Trees, and coral reefs providing oxygen, etc.)

this may or may not be true, but I recall a TV program saying with that the SETI program will determine in about 25 yrs if we're alone in our galaxy or not...

Given that there are roughly 100,000,000,000 stars in the galaxy (some sources say more, some less) and the galaxy is about 100,000 light years across, I think it might take a little longer than that.

Through an odd sequence of events, I had dinner with Patrick Moore some time around 2001-ish. Someone asked him about life on other planets. He replied: "Life somewhere in the universe, almost certainly; life in this galaxy, very likely; intelligent life in this galaxy, quite probably. But I doubt any intelligent life has come here - if it came here we'd know about it."

By the way, he is a seriously funny guy with an endless supply of silly anecdotes and one-liners. If you ever get the chance to meet him, do so.

If you like hollow earth theories, look up the J-horror film Marebito, they touch on the topic somewhat.

Onto the topic at hand: There may be intelligent life out there, but it hasn't come here, yet.
Roswell, ah yes, Roswell. What really happened: A balloon, albeit not a weather balloon, crashed in the desert. It was covered up not because of aliens, but because it was an experimental high-altitude recon balloon designed to spy on the Soviet Union.

UFO's: Nothing more than objects shifting into the visual spectrum of light (white light) from other spectrums (infrared, ultraviolet). Read Mothman Prophecies by John Keel for a more thourough explanation.

I respect your opinion, however, what I've seen was no ballon- it moved like a mo-fo and military jets we're chasing it. then this one object split into three then 5. Then they all dissapered and then reappered elsewhere in the sky. After about 10 minuets everything was gone. I can barley beleive what I saw myself, but thats what I saw and thats all that I saw. The military didn't make that- it wasnt a refraction of light of a bunch of swamp gas or a ballon. This thing was a craft.

I have no doubt in my mind that there is life on other worlds.

However, that being said, the definition of "life" becomes an important factor when trying to determine its frequency. A molecular biologist would say that life is that which generates proteins from nucleic acid and generates more life through reproduction. An ecologist would say that life is a matrix of energy flow created by biological entities. An evolutionist would say that life is that which spontaneously develops new forms over time. All three (and others) are valid perspectives. Viruses are an interesting case in point. The evolutionist and the molecular biologist would claim that they are; the ecologist would say that they are mechanisms but not organisms. Of course, the molecular biologist's position becomes meaningless as written if "life" is discovered that operates under different rules; for example, protein-only organisms, non-carbon-based organisms, thought-entities, etc. are all under the realm of possibility, even though the context of knowledge doesn't exist to accurately describe or predict the nature of such things. Even organisms with which we share a common evolutionary heritage with are often unimaginably strange to us, even though they do share certain basic rules with us. I take the ecologist's perspective, myself (as a matter of personal and budding professional bias), but acknowledge the value of the other concepts of life.

I agree that life may be totally different in some form, such as energetic or way beyond what we are familiar with.

Basically along with the other thread, but a more focused discussion on what people REALLY believe about this. I am unsure.

It is much more likely than not that aliens exist, given the size of the universe.

Another interesting thing about "aliens" is it is a popular outrageous conspiracy theory, but somewhat based in another one of those "cross-cultural imaginings" is the snake-people, it sort of goes along with the hollow earth theory (how many different cultures talked about underground kingdoms). The fact is it is a recurring cultural theme, I suppose just like Giants.

The wildest theories of the serpent people said they created humans, all this. But there are recurring themes:

The Indians have the Naga, and some other serpent races that were said to dwell in kingdoms under the Earth.

The Hopi refer to a race called "Sheti" or snake-brothers that live underground, and other Native American tribes mention similar "serpent people"

Cecrops, First King of Greece was said to have had the body of a snake, or be half man and half snake. Many pictures show him having a similar body form to that of Nagas.

The Chinese have legends of humans descended from "dragons".

Middle-Eastern legends about serpent people.

In Africa, they have the Chitauri (SUPPOSEDLY. I couldnt find enough sources on the Internet to compare to the Wiki article)

In medieval art, sometimes the snake that tempted Adam and Eve is shown with the upper body of a human.


The wiki entry http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reptilian_humanoid sort of is a bit silly, I had not seen it but had heard of the legends of Naga, and serpent peoples before. I am more interested in these legends that COULD hint at some race visiting the planet long ago.

Any exploratory civilisation is eventually going to get into space.

Not necessarily. It also depends on the resources of the planet they evolve on. If the planet has no easily obtained metals, the intelligent life form is forever trapped in the stone age. If no fuels are easily extracted form the planet, they are likely forever trapped in a pre-industrial mode. There are a lot of variables to consider. They can be incredibly intelligent, but if the resources aren't there, they aren't going anywhere.

I'd truly be surprised if there were no other lifeforms in the universe. Now, whether or not they are highly intelligent or if we could even understand them if they were, I haven't got a clue.

And I definitely haven't had any contact with aliens (unless they cleverly disguised themselves - which would suggest intelligence - or are very, very, very tiny).

Was away 3 days, bump

Hmmm

I respect your opinion, however, what I've seen was no ballon- it moved like a mo-fo and military jets we're chasing it. then this one object split into three then 5. Then they all dissapered and then reappered elsewhere in the sky. After about 10 minuets everything was gone. I can barley beleive what I saw myself, but thats what I saw and thats all that I saw. The military didn't make that- it wasnt a refraction of light of a bunch of swamp gas or a ballon. This thing was a craft.

That's not the John Keel hypothesis at all. What he talks of are what he terms 'extra-dimensional' beings. His opinion is that these objects aren't coming from other planets, but are actually a localized phenomena that has always been a part of the earth. He mentions medievel manuscripts that depicts these lights, but dismisses the popular notion that they are visitors from another planet. It sounds far-fetched, but so does the existance of UFO's. And remember Occam's Razor, even with an infinite number of possibilities, the most logical are probably the most likely.

Oh, and I was merely referring to the incident at the Roswell AAF in 1947. That was a surveillance balloon.

*refers all inquiries to the "Ann Coulter" thread*

Not necessarily. It also depends on the resources of the planet they evolve on. If the planet has no easily obtained metals, the intelligent life form is forever trapped in the stone age. If no fuels are easily extracted form the planet, they are likely forever trapped in a pre-industrial mode. There are a lot of variables to consider. They can be incredibly intelligent, but if the resources aren't there, they aren't going anywhere.

True. But is it not the case that many metals are produced in the early star-formation process? Especially iron, which is the essential metal for development. I suppose that a planet could be left resourceless if it had been mined completely by aliens previously.

Which raises an interesting question. Would it be ethical to exploit the material wealth of a planet if there is a possibility that a billion years down the line you would condemn an intelligent, creative species to eternal underdevelopment?

Do sentient beings exist on other planets? Undoubtedly. The question is how far away are they?

Do they know we exist? Probably not. We have only been sending out radio waves for about 100 years. However, as they radiate outward, the chances of our presence being detected grow exponentially.

Once they know we exist, will they contact us? Most likely. If they are intelligent enough to interpret our signals, I'm sure they would have a means of sending a response. I think curiosity is universal, so if they could do it, they would.

Will they visit us? Possibly. Even if they are motivated by curiosity, there are plenty of things that might stop them. They may be limited by technology, they may see how badly we're fucking up our world and be repelled, they may be content as voyeurs, they may not want to interfere, they might be worried that we're hostile...

I think contact from outside of our galaxy is highly unlikely due to the vast distances involved. I don't know how densely populated the galaxy is, but I'm thoroughly convinced we are not it's lone occupants. That said, it's only a matter of time before my opinion becomes the majority.

That's not the John Keel hypothesis at all. What he talks of are what he terms 'extra-dimensional' beings. His opinion is that these objects aren't coming from other planets, but are actually a localized phenomena that has always been a part of the earth. He mentions medievel manuscripts that depicts these lights, but dismisses the popular notion that they are visitors from another planet. It sounds far-fetched, but so does the existance of UFO's. And remember Occam's Razor, even with an infinite number of possibilities, the most logical are probably the most likely.

Oh, and I was merely referring to the incident at the Roswell AAF in 1947. That was a surveillance balloon.

Thats an interesting view, that is what I was speaking of earlier. There are numerous medieval paintings, and even further back that depict these objects/lights back to paintings on cave walls.

What do you think though of the story of underground races/kingdoms?

They are actually called ancient astronaut theories . To me their more interesting from the point that perhaps just like today people have been seeing an atmospheric effect, or some kind of effect. If we see what looks like UFOs today, perhaps they did back then as well. (Not saying I believe they are in fact "alien UFOs"


I assume that you're unaware that the whole "ancient astronaut" bit was invented by Von Daniken after he read German translations of several of Lovecraft's stories.

The UFO phenomena could be explained by alien anthropologist studying us whilst following a 'prime directive' if you will of not to interfere with a developing species.

I personally would have liked to have seen how different civilizations would have developed here on earth if western imperialism hadn’t interfered. Particularly the Incans and Aztec empires as they were still relatively young. Now if we had simply observed them from afar they may have come up with new/different technologies and/or cultural / political systems. Of course this could have taken thousands of years and would be near impossible to maintain the isolation but it would be cool,
so aliens could be doing this with us, to see if we make it.

I assume that you're unaware that the whole "ancient astronaut" bit was invented by Von Daniken after he read German translations of several of Lovecraft's stories.

I love Cthulhu and Lovecraft, but have to say with this even if it was invented at first, that particular "Brand" of theories, the ancient astronaut theory has been around far longer than Von Daniken and there is now archaeologists who believe it from their own studies.

cthulhu?

Aliens exist, but are enough wise to avoid this planet.

Hmm