NationStates Jolt Archive

It might be Jesus, but it still isn't God.

it'll conclusively prove that the earth is 6,000 years old and noah had a pet velociraptor

Ok, so let's say that Jack Cameron is right and he did discover the tomb of the Jesus Christ, his wife Mary and their son. Not only that but we somehow are able to prove that the remains inside the Jesus Box are the remains of Jesus Christ. I dunno, I guess the DNA will be gold and purple. Anyways, what do you think this would mean for the Christian faith? What does this do for the Bible, and for the people who not only believed in Jesus message, but that he did resurrect from the dead, and ascended into Heaven?

Personally, I would still be Catholic, and I guess I'm hoping that Christianity will be more open and we won't have people who get a hard-on from damning people to Hell just because you like rock music, but that's probably not going to happen.

What do you guys think?

I think it'll finally get rid of the superstition and holier-than-thou bits and people can focus on the philosophical message of Christianity instead.
I'd love to see that happen.

Personally, I would still be Catholic, and I guess I'm hoping that Christianity will be more open and we won't have people who get a hard-on from damning people to Hell just because you like rock music, but that's probably not going to happen.


I think that you're an intelligent person. I think that the real issue about Jesus is his teaching (and I'm an atheist, mind you, so no faith arguments with me), not his body. Or any church.

Honestly, I don't think it would be possible for them to get enough evidence to convince many of the major sects. I mean just look at the resistance some groups put up to the idea of evolution, and this would chalenge much more basic theological beliefs than that as to the nature od Jesus as messiah.

i doubt it would change a thing, to be honest.

I think it would just open up more question than answers

A good one would be how he could borrow his dads car without him seeing it

Ok, so let's say that Jack Cameron is right and he did discover the tomb of the Jesus Christ, his wife Mary and their son...

....What do you guys think?

I think the whole family should be reburied in the Bahamas.

I think the whole family should be reburied in the Bahamas.

They were already reburied around twenty years ago shortly after the tomb was first discovered.

The Pat Robertson's and Fred Phelps' of the world would tell us that the Devil was behind it and that we were believing a lie, because, after all, facts and scientific proof are just illusions.:rolleyes:

You can't exactly disprove faith. Maybe you can find a body or two and call it/them Jesus and Mary Magdelene (and i have a hard time finding the reason why he would be right next to her, even considering everything), but you can't shake faith.

Just like you can't have a war on an idea. :p

The Pat Robertson's and Fred Phelps' of the world would tell us that the Devil was behind it and that we were believing a lie, because, after all, facts and scientific proof are just illusions.:rolleyes:

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y223/GermanNightmare/AwJeeznotthisshitagain.jpg

Ok, so let's say that Jack Cameron is right and he did discover the tomb of the Jesus Christ, his wife Mary and their son. Not only that but we somehow are able to prove that the remains inside the Jesus Box are the remains of Jesus Christ. I dunno, I guess the DNA will be gold and purple. Anyways, what do you think this would mean for the Christian faith? What does this do for the Bible, and for the people who not only believed in Jesus message, but that he did resurrect from the dead, and ascended into Heaven?

Personally, I would still be Catholic, and I guess I'm hoping that Christianity will be more open and we won't have people who get a hard-on from damning people to Hell just because you like rock music, but that's probably not going to happen.

What do you guys think?
It can't be because he ascended.

It wouldn't change a thing for this basic reason--twisting oneself in rhetorical knots in order to try to make some sense of religious dogma is hardly a new exercise for any member of a religious faith. Hell, the question of whether Jesus was resurrected bodily or in spirit only is nothing compared to the hoops people jump through trying to wrap their heads around the Trinity.

Speaking as a fairly militant atheist, I didn't watch the show and had no real desire to do so, because I disagreed with the premise from the beginning. It made claims that it couldn't possibly hope to actually deal with, and used sources who have already been discredited, from what I understand. I mean, they were including the James ossuary, right? Which has pretty conclusively been called a fake, if I recall correctly. If anything, this show is more likely to have a backlash effect against atheists, with churches able to make the argument that secularists are willing to do anything to discredit christianity. Like we need that kind of drama.

it'll conclusively prove that the earth is 6,000 years old and noah had a pet velociraptor

ZING!

i'd think meh, bfd, no skin off mine. he was just some charismatic guy who CHANNELED god, just like moses and krishna and the rest of them. he shouldn't have been killed and all that. not the first it ever happened though and certainly not the last. his memory did eventualy bring down the roman empire and that was pretty cool.

ah, that 6,000 years bit, if anybody ever actualy READ that book they get so fanatical about they'd realize there are 24,000 years of successive revelations mentioned, even if 18,000 of them are mentioned only in passing.

and if a day of revelation is a thousand years, (the "day" of each of those 18 mentioned was ... on average arround a thousand years), wouldn't a "day of god" be somewhat longer, say at least a million years if not a billion?

so even by ITS reconing you're looking at anywhere from 30,000 years to somewhere arround 6 billion and 24 thousand.

(a thousand for adam, a thousand average for each of the 18, (what 18? the 18 in the book of numbers. the one that comes right after genesis. do 'christians' ever actualy READ that thing? that book they keep so much going on about) a thousand each for abraham, noah, and moses, and of course the couple of thousand since christ. sheesh. do the effing math. THEN ADD the 6,000 or 6M of 6B, as the case might be, or is math against christerism too?)

=^^=
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It can't be because he ascended.

Exactly, besides there's no way that they could prove it to be a person who lived almost 2,000 years ago without any blood descendants or any other way to come up with a DNA match. Besides, Christ's DNA wouldn't look much different from anyone else's because he was fully human.

The intelligent Christians won't be all that bothered, because it's Jesus' teachings that form the basis for their beliefs, not the idea that he acsended into heaven. The stupid Christians will claim that evil science is trying to destroy their way of life, much like they do now. So not much would change.

Actually it should bother all Christians if it was actually true. If Christ never ascended, He wasn't God. If He wasn't God His sacrifice wasn't a divine sacrifice. If His sacrifice wasn't a divine sacrifice, it could not make infinite reparation for sin. Besides that part, if Christ wasn't God, He was a madman and why are we following Him anyway? His message is worthless if He was either a lunatic or a terrible liar.

As a said before though, there's no way that anyone could prove it was Christ's body, even if you don't believe in the Ascension, which I do.

If Christ never ascended, He wasn't God.

Non sequitur.

The intelligent Christians won't be all that bothered, because it's Jesus' teachings that form the basis for their beliefs, not the idea that he acsended into heaven. The stupid Christians will claim that evil science is trying to destroy their way of life, much like they do now. So not much would change.

yes, rather precisely!
whatever conclusions anyone comes to.

=^^=
.../\...

Ok, so let's say that Jack Cameron is right and he did discover the tomb of the Jesus Christ, his wife Mary and their son. Not only that but we somehow are able to prove that the remains inside the Jesus Box are the remains of Jesus Christ. I dunno, I guess the DNA will be gold and purple. Anyways, what do you think this would mean for the Christian faith? What does this do for the Bible, and for the people who not only believed in Jesus message, but that he did resurrect from the dead, and ascended into Heaven?

Personally, I would still be Catholic, and I guess I'm hoping that Christianity will be more open and we won't have people who get a hard-on from damning people to Hell just because you like rock music, but that's probably not going to happen.

What do you guys think?If Yeshua did not die on the cross and thus did not serve as the human sacrifice before the biblical Jew-ish god to undo the sin of Adam, the whole point of Christianity is void. This does not, however, influence his status as possible Messiah (=Christ), although he does not really fit the description of Messiah. He would then be just one of many candidates throughout history.

The intelligent Christians won't be all that bothered, because it's Jesus' teachings that form the basis for their beliefs, not the idea that he acsended into heaven. The basis of the Christian belief is the assumption that he died for the sins of humanity. The resurrection and ascension are just nice additions to the core story. It is the act of sacrifice that pleases the biblical god.

If Yeshua did not die on the cross and thus did not serve as the human sacrifice before the biblical Jew-ish god to undo the sin of Adam, the whole point of Christianity is void. This does not, however, influence his status as possible Messiah (=Christ), although he does not really fit the description of Messiah. He would then be just one of many candidates throughout history.

OF COURSE "the whole point of christianity is void"! other then just another chapter in the continuing periodical outpouring of devine revelation that continued with mohamed and then the bab and baha'u'llah.

the only thing really unique about it is the subsiquent colapse of the roman empire. and that it hangs on in a culture that has become planetarily dominant thanks to accidents of history that could just as easily have gone other ways, and inevitably sooner or later will.

as all things ultimately do.

=^^=
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I suspect that if certain groups of people can still believe the earth is 6,000 years old, doesn't rotate and the sun and the heavens revolve around it, that astronomy is a tool of ancient religious cults trying to destroy christianity, and we all descended from a single mating pair not once but twice, a little thing like DNA evidence is a pretty easy thing to shrug off. :p

Bah! everyone knows that Jesus moved to France and married Mary Magdalene. They even got little baby-Jesuses. That's where the Merovingians came from. So there! They've even written a book about it.

On a different note, if someone wants to believe, I see no difference between believing in some half-cocked director's version or in the version of a bunch of half-cocked Dark Ages-fanatics (the editorial staff of the Holy Bible). Bot did it for mony and power...

... and we all descended from a single mating pair not once but twicetwice?

twice?

Adam and Eve

Noah and...Noah's Wife...

Adam and Eve

Noah and...Noah's Wife...And Noah's kids and their spouses, who were all born before the Flood...

And Noah's kids and their spouses....

Oh...didn't know that.

My understanding of Genesis after Cain and Abel is a little sketchy.

The fact that such bad science has gotten so much attention scares me considerably. I can refute that documentary point by point if I wanted to, but I'll just say that everything on that documentary is void because the so-called "scientists" were drawing conclusions according to parable and lore.

Don't listen to that publicity stunt. After being brainwashed with Indiana Jones and Da Vinci Code, people will believe anything.

Hey! I'll have you know the Holy Grail really IS in the middle of the f-ing desert, guarded by a 600 year old night and hunted after by Nazis.

The fact that such bad science has gotten so much attention scares me considerably. I can refute that documentary point by point if I wanted to, but I'll just say that everything on that documentary is void because the so-called "scientists" were drawing conclusions according to parable and lore.

Don't listen to that publicity stunt. After being brainwashed with Indiana Jones and Da Vinci Code, people will believe anything.

And Noah's kids and their spouses, who were all born before the Flood...

And which, according to some, became the basis for the three races of man. We're such a simple-headed species sometimes, I swear.

Hey! I'll have you know the Holy Grail really IS in the middle of the f-ing desert, guarded by a 600 year old night and hunted after by Nazis.

ROFL!:D

Ok, so let's say that Jack Cameron is right and he did discover the tomb of the Jesus Christ, his wife Mary and their son. Not only that but we somehow are able to prove that the remains inside the Jesus Box are the remains of Jesus Christ. I dunno, I guess the DNA will be gold and purple. Anyways, what do you think this would mean for the Christian faith? What does this do for the Bible, and for the people who not only believed in Jesus message, but that he did resurrect from the dead, and ascended into Heaven?

Most Christians that believe in bodily ascension will simply deny that it is "the body of Christ".

I personally find the son far more interesting. Was Jesus married and did the Bible merely fail to mention that insignificant detail about his life or did he have sex before marriage ? Was he a caring and loving dad, did he neglect his kid to spread the holy word or did he die while the mother was still pregnant ?

And of course: since none of this is mentioned in Scripture, what else was left out ? Positive statements on homosexuals ? Rape laws that make sense ?
A corrected version of Genesis?