NationStates Jolt Archive

If you are able to solve this equation, you are quite logical already. The quicker you can solve it, the more logical you are.

The first person to solve this equation wins a prize:

(1+x)/x =\/3 (\/ = square root.)

find x in the form of a + b\/3 where a and b are rational.

It's math. I can't think like math, I'm a writer. I think creatively, not logically. Screw logic!

42

I'ma have to go with 42. I don't understand what you want me to do with the equation...

I'ma have to go with 42. I don't understand what you want me to do with the equation...

=

find x in the form of a + b\/3 where a and b are rational.

i.e, it could be x=2+8\/3, or 10-3\/3 etc...

This is maths not logic. Logic is used, but to answer the question one requires an understanding of the mathematical language.

You also have defined your question well.

But I believe the answer you're looking for is 1/x + 1 = 3^(0.5)

If not, do your own homework.

edit: fine you defined your question correctly whilst I wrote my post.

except anything with V3 in the coefficient is not rational:confused:

If you are able to solve this equation, you are quite logical already. The quicker you can solve it, the more logical you are.

The first person to solve this equation wins a prize:

(1+x)/x =\/3 (\/ = square root.)

find x in the form of a + b\/3 where a and b are rational.
So if you can't do math you're not logical?

Woe is me.

This is maths not logic. Logic is used, but to answer the question one requires an understanding of the mathematical language.

You also have defined your question well.

But I believe the answer you're looking for is 1/x + 1 = 3^(0.5)

If not, do your own homework.

no thats not what im looking for.

you need to find what X equals. in the form a + b\/3

find, the value of x!

x = [sqrt(3) + 1]/2

or if you want...

x = sqrt(3)/2 + 1/2

oh yeah, and anything with a root sign unless its a perfect square is probably not going to be rational, but irrational...*cough*

If not, do your own homework.Lol. What a fabulous way would this be to sneak in a homework help thread? :p

1+ (1/x) = V3 *shrug*

no thats not what im looking for.

you need to find what X equals. in the form a + b\/3

(1+X)/X=V3
1+X=X*V3
X=X*V3-1
1=V3-1/X
1/X=V3-1
X=1/(V3-1)=1.3660254

(1+x)/3^.5 = x? hell if I knew what you mean.

x = [sqrt(3) + 1]/2

or if you want...

x = sqrt(3)/2 + 1/2

oh yeah, and anything with a root sign unless its a perfect square is probably not going to be rational, but irrational...*cough*

yer but the terms A and B are suppost to be rational. So you need to find it in the form a+b\/3

Square root of 3 is 1.7320508075688772935274463415059.

Sooo...


(1+x)/x =1.7320508075688772935274463415059

Or are you trying to say something else. Because that V confuses me.

(1+X)/X=V3
1+X=X*V3
X=X*V3-1
1=V3-1/X
1/X=V3-1
X=1/(V3-1)=1.3660254

you can go further and multiply the denominator by its conjugate of (\/3 + 1) therefore obtaining a difference of two squares on the bottom (3-1) and (\/3 + 1) on the top.

(eleventy four + ninety twelve) x10 to the power of anchovie. that's as close as i can get it i'm afraid.

find, the value of x!

Screw you dude, I don't need this class to graduate.

(eleventy four + ninety twelve) x10 to the power of anchovie. that's as close as i can get it i'm afraid.

Quality.

your query and how this relates to logic is....illogical.

sos ur face n00b! :mp5:

your query and how this relates to logic is....illogical.

yer but the terms A and B are suppost to be rational. So you need to find it in the form a+b\/3

x is not a rational number in the equation given. so how you can add two rational numbers and get an irrational one is beyond me (maybe I'm just being a bit stupid?)

unless of course, you consider 1/2 to be A (rational) and 1/2 to be B (rational) MULTIPLIED by root 3. is that what you're getting at?

i.e.

x = 1/2 + (1/2)*\/3

(eleventy four + ninety twelve) x10 to the power of anchovie. that's as close as i can get it i'm afraid.See, now that's maths the way I like it. :cool:

Wait, so that was all that was to it? Asking for the solution to a mathematical equation? So this really is a homework help thread?

Not as fabulous as I thought, it turns out.

sos ur face n00b! :mp5:

do your own fucking homework.

x is not a rational number in the equation given. so how you can add two rational numbers and get an irrational one is beyond me (maybe I'm just being a bit stupid?)

unless of course, you consider 1/2 to be A (rational) and 1/2 to be B (rational) MULTIPLIED by root 3. is that what you're getting at?

i.e.

x = 1/2 + (1/2)\/3

√3 is an irrational number. 1.732050807568877293527446341505 872366942805253810380628055806979451933016909

x is not a rational number in the equation given. so how you can add two rational numbers and get an irrational one is beyond me (maybe I'm just being a bit stupid?)

unless of course, you consider 1/2 to be A (rational) and 1/2 to be B (rational) MULTIPLIED by root 3. is that what you're getting at?

Im not trying to make X rational, just a on it's own is rational, and b on it's own is rational. So im not saying b\/3 is rational, but just b.

Algebra homework? :rolleyes:

Anyway, my answer: x = 1/2 + (1/2)\/3.

Also, this isn't really a test of logic, so much as a test of whether you know math.

(1/2) - (√3/2) = X

That's what I got after a few seconds of elementary algebra work.

Edit: Damn, Rameria tied me for it.

If you are able to solve this equation, you are quite logical already. The quicker you can solve it, the more logical you are.

The first person to solve this equation wins a prize:

(\/ = square root.)

find x in the form of a + b\/3 where a and b are rational.

(1+x)/x =\/3

bah, humbug.

If you are able to solve this equation, you are quite logical already. The quicker you can solve it, the more logical you are.

The first person to solve this equation wins a prize:

(1+x)/x =\/3 (\/ = square root.)

find x in the form of a + b\/3 where a and b are rational.

I have no idea what you're talking about...

Wait, so that was all that was to it? Asking for the solution to a mathematical equation? So this really is a homework help thread?

Not as fabulous as I thought, it turns out.

Nah i'm just waiting for the fantabulous prize to be delivered.

the answer to the question

1+x / x = root 3 is that x = 1 / ((root 3) - 1)

btw im from eastbourne :) can u hand deliver my prize

No, he wants an irrational number to be expressed in rational terms... :/

someone do a geometric power series

(1/2) - (V3/2) = X

That's what I got after a few seconds of elementary algebra work.

Edit: Damn, Rameria tied me for it.

I beat both of you. Although, ok, it took minute maybe a minute.

x = 24.

hahaha! I remember how to do maths. :D

the answer is

x = 0.5*3^(0.5) + 0.5

Woo!

I ain't telling you how I did it as that would mean you didn't do your homework by yourself.

edit: balls people already did tell you how to get there.

(1/2) - (V3/2) = X

That's what I got after a few seconds of elementary algebra work.

Edit: Damn, Rameria tied me for it.

You would not be learning that in elementry school.

you can go further and multiply the denominator by its conjugate of (\/3 + 1) therefore obtaining a difference of two squares on the bottom (3-1) and (\/3 + 1) on the top.

Only n00bs go further than necessary. Besides, I made it a single number.

No, he wants an irrational number to be expressed in rational terms... :/

someone do a geometric power series

why cant anyone understand english. I JUST WANT A AND B TO BE RATIONAL, NOT THE B\/3, JUST B! WHICH YOU HAVE ALREADY FOUND I BELIEVE.

See, now that's maths the way I like it. :cool:

it has flavour *nods*

why cant anyone understand english. I JUST WANT A AND B TO BE RATIONAL, NOT THE B\/3, JUST B! WHICH YOU HAVE ALREADY FOUND I BELIEVE.

The answer is NOT rational. You cannot (to my knowledge) add an irrational number to a RATIONAL one to make it rational. It just doesn't work. (do you know what a rational number is?)

Btw, if this is just a "test of logic" surely you have the answer for us, no?

why cant anyone understand english. I JUST WANT A AND B TO BE RATIONAL, NOT THE B\/3, JUST B! WHICH YOU HAVE ALREADY FOUND I BELIEVE.

only n00bs want it in a+bV3 form. :p

(1/2) - (√3/2) = X

That's what I got after a few seconds of elementary algebra work.

Edit: Damn, Rameria tied me for it.

The negative sign is wrong, but no big.

Was this supposed to be fun in any way? I was hoping for something at least modestly clever. All it was was basic, straightforward, high-school level algebra.

you're apparently failing both math and english.

I got an A in english, I'm doing maths for A level, and I got an A in my last exam.

It was a typo, and I misread what you said, as I am reading and writing in a rush.

You would not be learning that in elementry school.

you're apparently failing both math and english.

I beat both of you. Although, ok, it took minute maybe a minute.

Note your formula comes out with -X, not X.

Note your formula comes out with -X, not X.

I put the formula into the calculator, solving for x. It comes out to root 3.

The answer is NOT rational. You cannot (to my knowledge) add an irrational number to a RATIONAL one to make it rational. It just doesn't work. (do you know what a rational number is?)

Btw, if this is just a "test of logic" surely you have the answer for us, no?

Please re read what I said, as I never ever ever ever once said the answer was rational. Not intentionally anyway.

only n00bs want it in a+bV3 form. :p

but thats what I want people to do, and so far only one person has done that.

Please re read what I said, as I never ever ever ever once said the answer was rational. Not intentionally anyway.

you want x solved in terms of two rational numbers a + b.

X is an IRRATIONAL number. Rational number + rational number = rational number. You cannot have rational number + rational number = irrational number.

but thats what I want people to do, and so far only one person has done that.

What, that's it? That was stupid.

you want x solved in terms of two rational numbers a + b.

X is an IRRATIONAL number. Rational number + rational number = rational number. You cannot have rational number + rational number = irrational number.

You evidently have not read the question, I want the answer to be A+B\/3, not A+B.

but thats what I want people to do, and so far only one person has done that.

It's still n00bish.

Or at least newbish. :cool:

What, that's it? That was stupid.

What do you mean. You are still sloving X, just putting it in that form.

What do you mean. You are still sloving X, just putting it in that form.

Why? Is there something special about that form? Does this go beyond my sixth grade 'intro to algebra'?

You evidently have not read the question, I want the answer to be A+B\/3, not A+B.

I answered it in A + B\/3 and you said it was wrong, bud. That's what everyone has done. B is 1/2. A is 1/2. Or do you have comprehension problems?

Why? Is there something special about that form? Does this go beyond my sixth grade 'intro to algebra'?
Nope.

I'm doing maths for A level

not successfully obviously if you need to come here for help.

I answered it in A + B\/3 and you said it was wrong, bud. That's what everyone has done. B is 1/2. A is 1/2. Or do you have comprehension problems?

I never said you were wrong, I said you were wrong about me claiming it was rational.

not successfully obviously if you need to come here for help.

one question out of 15 that i'm stuck on, i'm doing ok. And that is actually part of a much bigger question involving integration.

yer but the terms A and B are suppost to be rational. So you need to find it in the form a+b\/3

This is the reply you gave me. Which is rather cryptic to say the least.

Also you do know it's against the rules to post homework help threads? I'm not going to report you, but you can bet your ass someone else probably will.

Why? Is there something special about that form? Does this go beyond my sixth grade 'intro to algebra'?

What is the equivelent of 6th grade in the UK? I'm guessing it is the same as year 6. If it is only year 6 level, why would it be on a year 12 test sheet.

6th graders are 11 and 12 years old.

The A + B\/3 form is kind of weird, but it is one of the more efficient ways of expressing the equation.

Personally, I prefer to take the extra step and get a common denominator:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/math/f/b/7/fb760a7b55925d1f8a939704f23068e8.png

Now doesn't that look nice?

This is the reply you gave me. Which is rather cryptic to say the least.

Also you do know it's against the rules to post homework help threads? I'm not going to report you, but you can bet your ass someone else probably will.

well I dunno i must have misquoted or something, I really am in a big rush doing lots of other work so I am going to be making a few misquotes here, a few typos there from time to time.

6th graders are 11 and 12 years old.

So why would something for 11 and 12 year olds be on a test paper designed for 17 year old college students?

So why would something for 11 and 12 year olds be on a test paper designed for 17 year old college students?

Because 17 year olds are stupid?
Because they're all stoned?
Because it's a remedial class?
Because the hangover reduces their mental capacity to that of prepubescents?
Because it's an April Fools joke?
Because the teacher is hot for you?

So why would something for 11 and 12 year olds be on a test paper designed for 17 year old college students?
The question as you put it to us wouldn't be on a test for 17 year olds. The question as you put it to us, as part of a larger problem involving calculus, would be.

Because 17 year olds are stupid?
Because they're all stoned?
Because it's a remedial class?
Because the hangover reduces their mental capacity to that of prepubescents?
Because it's an April Fools joke?
Because the teacher is hot for you?

Were you learning the difference of two squares at age 11 and 12? I know for a fact they don't teach that untill your 15 - 16.

The question as you put it to us wouldn't be on a test for 17 year olds. The question as you put it to us, as part of a larger problem involving calculus, would be.

The integration was much easier (i found), then this.

Were you learning the difference of two squares at age 11 and 12? I know for a fact they don't teach that untill your 15 - 16.

Dude, I just turned 15 and I've known that.

Also, you didn't address any of the possibilities I offered up.

So why would something for 11 and 12 year olds be on a test paper designed for 17 year old college students?

The question you put forward would really be for Algebra II students. Maybe Algebra I. It's nothing difficult.

Dude, I just turned 15 and I've known that.

Do you go to a private school?

Do you go to a private school?

I learned it around that age as well, and I go to a public high school. In *shock* the US.

The question you put forward would really be for Algebra II students. Maybe Algebra I. It's nothing difficult.

Well my mind went completely blank on it. When I look back at it now, it seems very easy, but since I havn't done the dots in two years it doesn't suddenly spring to mind that I should do that.

Do you go to a private school?

At the moment, yes, but not before this year.

http://web.westbloomfield.k12.mi.us/olms/

I learned it around that age as well, and I go to a public high school. In *shock* the US.

Which age is that?

Which age is that?

15/16. If you're taking a calculus class, though, I'd recommend, erm...not forgetting algebra. It's pretty important, especially when solving for horizontal tangents, maxima, concavity, points of inflection, and so on.

At the moment, yes, but not before this year.

http://web.westbloomfield.k12.mi.us/olms/

So you are saying you learnt the dots at around 11 and 12 when doing your average public school course? No extra curriculum classes? etc...

15/16. If you're taking a calculus class, though, I'd recommend, erm...not forgetting algebra. It's pretty important, especially when solving for horizontal tangents, maxima, concavity, points of inflection, and so on.

Thats the age I said as well, but he said he learnt before that.

Were you learning the difference of two squares at age 11 and 12? I know for a fact they don't teach that untill your 15 - 16.
I think I learned that when I was 13 or 14.

(1+X)/X=V3
1+X=X*V3
X=X*V3-1
1=V3-1/X
1/X=V3-1
X=1/(V3-1)=1.3660254

That's as far as I got.

(My 11-year old is just doing the Riemann Integral, over a Banach tensor field of Tarsky-polyontological holomorphisms.)

Hydesland made himself clear. He wanted the parameters a and b to be rational, nothing else. Which I couldn't do, but others solved it.

15/16. If you're taking a calculus class, though, I'd recommend, erm...not forgetting algebra. It's pretty important, especially when solving for horizontal tangents, maxima, concavity, points of inflection, and so on.

Well, thats the first time i've ever forgotten any sort of basic algebraic law, but I can't help it if I randomly loose my memory.

So you are saying you learnt the dots at around 11 and 12 when doing your average public school course? No extra curriculum classes? etc...

Dots? We were talking about difference of two squares, no? Unless 'dots' is a term I'm not familiar with. I did use dots to learn long division, but that was in second grade, at a Montessori school.

(1+x)/x =\/3 (\/ = square root.)

find x in the form of a + b\/3 where a and b are rational.

X's bolded.
Do I win?

X's bolded.
Do I win?

I think he deserves the prize, he made it amusing.

I think he deserves the prize, he made it amusing.

Woo! Logic cookie!

Dots? We were talking about difference of two squares, no?

Yes.

X's bolded.
Do I win?

:p

Just out of interest Dinaverg. If i was to ask you to integrate or differentiate x+3/\/X-X^-1/2 etc... would you find that easy. Because I find that easier then the question in the op, but apparently it should be harder.

dude, quit having ppl do your homework for you.

If that was having people do my hmw for me, I wouldn't have put the etc.. and finished of the equation.

Just out of interest Dinaverg. If i was to ask you to integrate or differentiate x+3/\/X-X^-1/2 etc... would you find that easy. Because I find that easier then the question in the op, but apparently it should be harder.

dude, quit having ppl do your homework for you.

Calculus is more advanced than algebra because you need some pretty advanced math just to get into calculus. Once you know how to do it it's pretty easy, but understanding why it works is the barrier to entry. Without that you can't apply it appropriately.

Now, it's been a long time since I've had to do any real math, but I think getting to the solution:

x = 1/(√3 - 1)

is the work of the aforementioned 11 year old. Elementary algebra does take you that far.

Turning that into:

x = 1/2 + √3/2

is the hard part.

Incidentally, how do you do that?

(1+x)/x = V3

(1+x) = x * V3

1 = x*V3 - x

1 = (a + bV3)V3 - (a + bV3)

1 = aV3 + 3b - a - bV3

1 = a(V3-1) + b(3-V3)

The problem therefore has at least 2 solutions:
a = 0, and b = 1/(3-V3)
b = 0, and a = 1/(V3-1)

Consequently x is either equal to 1/(3-V3) or 1/(V3-1)

Edit: It's fricking algebra, people. Not Rocket Science

Im gonna have to go with 42.

What's that squiggle you've got in the middle there mean?

That's not a squiggle, it's a carrot followed by a minus sign. In other words, something to the -1/2 power.

Just out of interest Dinaverg. If i was to ask you to integrate or differentiate x+3/\/X-X^-1/2 etc... would you find that easy. Because I find that easier then the question in the op, but apparently it should be harder.

What's that squiggle you've got in the middle there mean?

That's not a squiggle, it's a carrot followed by a minus sign. In other words, something to the -1/2 power.
Caret. That's a caret symbol, not a carrot.

I've just read the question, I think that a lot of people had answered it but here it goes:

1+x=sqrt(3)·x
1=x(sqrt(3)-1)
x=1/(sqrt(3)-1)

x=1/(sqrt(3)-1) · (sqrt(3)+1)/(sqrt(3)+1)

(Reordering)
x= [sqrt(3)+1]/[(sqrt(3)+1)·(sqrt(3)-1)]

(Knowing that (j-k)·(j+k)=j^2-k^2)
x= [sqrt(3)+1]/2= sqrt(3)·(1/2)+(1/2)

________________________________-
:gundge:

It's math. I can't think like math, I'm a writer. I think creatively, not logically. Screw logic!

Actually, the ability to blend logic and creativity is essential for a writer. People aren't going to want to read a book that doesn't make sense, nor are you even going to be able to write the book if you can't think logically enough to figure out how to lay-out and organize the story.

Anyway, as for the problem...
(1+x)/x = sqrt(3)
((1+x)/x)*x=sqrt(3)*x
(1+x)=sqrt(3)x
(1+x)+sqrt(3)x=sqrt(3)x+sqrt(3)x
1+(1+sqrt(3))x)0
(1+sqrt3)(x)=-1
x=2.73

Well, in my opinion this has nothing to do with logic - you need creativity to solve this problem. I doubt that you simply could write a general algorithm for this.

First I tried to solve the equation x = a + sqrt(3)*b, but of course you can't calculate two variables with one equation - and in this form, the solution wasn't obvious. (as I hoped)

Well, in my opinion this has nothing to do with logic - you need creativity to solve this problem. I doubt that you simply could write a general algorithm for this.

First I tried to solve the equation x = a + sqrt(3)*b, but of course you can't calculate two variables with one equation - and in this form, the solution wasn't obvious. (as I hoped)

It's not really a creativity problem. It's simple algebra. Rearrange the numbers to a more equitable position and then solve for what you don't know.

maths isn't the only form of logic.

unless that's some kind of joke equation or something.... in which case i so don't get it :(

maths isn't the only form of logic.

unless that's some kind of joke equation or something.... in which case i so don't get it :(

not only that, this form of math is good for fuck all in the real world...I paid just enough attention in school to pass my exams and haven't looked at that crap since.....

([(1+x)/x =\/3] → logic) → ([(1+x)/x =\/3] → ¬maths)?

not only that, this form of math is good for fuck all in the real world...I paid just enough attention in school to pass my exams and haven't looked at that crap since.....

quite. myself, i'm crap at figuring that sort of thing out, and mental arithmetic (i don't even know my times tables - i blame dyslexia), but i use excel to analyse market research data as part of my job. that involves high degrees of logic and quite a lot of logical maths.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiple_intelligences#Logical-mathematical

Seeing as how some people are still confused as to the answer, I'll try to provide a clean-looking, step-by-step answer. Anybody who's taken at least Algebra II should understand everything.

The original problem:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/math/6/1/7/6176318a58db5f01d022758ab826970f.png

Multiply both sides by X:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/math/b/5/6/b56052935807a673e1d5621482d98940.png

Subtract both sides by X:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/math/4/d/2/4d2ef2ab2bd867341872aa247a7d85a9.png

Factor out X:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/math/2/8/b/28b9f931601292ab3c1ca42ed9972cc7.png

Divide to get X alone:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/math/7/9/1/7916949892d904ee7820bccd83196c86.png

Multiply by the conjugate to rationalize the denominator:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/math/2/7/5/2751cd4d38a7c896eb3f7828674d111c.png

Subtract and re-arrange in a + bV3 = x form:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/math/8/8/4/884956eed1749fb14faba71d165b3591.png

And there you have it. It's a fairly simple problem, but I can definitely see the logic needed to solve it (order of operations, etc). I don't think I messed up on anything, but anybody feel free to correct me.

Prolly too late and prolly wrong, but:

(1 + x)/x = sqrt(3)
1/x + x/x = sqrt(3)
1/x + 1 = sqrt (3)
1/x = sqrt(3) - 1
x = 1/(sqrt(3) - 1)

EDIT: Wrong form...I give up.

not only that, this form of math is good for fuck all in the real world...I paid just enough attention in school to pass my exams and haven't looked at that crap since.....
This sort of thing is actually quite useful in an applied science setting. Solving for x might not be enough, because your ability to implement a solution might be limited by available materials, so you'd have to place specific restrictions on what your ultimate solution looks like.

I stopped paying attention to math after the 5th grade. I have no idea what that problem is saying.

/offtopic sorta When I was in 5th grade .. I did great in it and math was my favorite subject. I'd get into a zone where all outside noises and people would shut off and it was awesome. The next year I switched schools and started paying more attention to what was going on around me and the people around me than my studies. Looking back now I also think I had and probably still have something similar to ADD, but nothing I need drugs for, just needed to practice/learn how to block outside interference, or even better to learn how to think with those interferences. I think my dad has is too and was the reason he quit school when he did.. about the same time I started putting focus elsewhere. We are freaking ridiculously easily distracted by people, even each other. I mean very simple things like counting out money to give to a cashier in a busy store can frustrate us. It's like we lose our train of thought.. all we pay attention to are the people. Working on something alone I am fine and can figure things out that most people can't or usually don't alone.. throw another person in the mix and simple things become frustrating. Certain jobs I've had where I ran my own machine, or did my work alone, as long as my co workers were doing their own work and not paying attention to what I was doing, and I knew they weren't.. it's like they aren't there and I'm fine.. but put someone there watching me or trying to work with me.. and it's useless.. I get frustrated and quit. My dad taught himself to be a machinist.. and he was great at it, and I think it was simply because it was detailed, something you do alone, at your own pace with no one bothering you. I've always known that I am somewhat one track minded, and there is nothing wrong with that, because when I do put my focus on something It's full force. But when you find yourself getting frustrated and unable to think about everyday simple crap because 1000 thoughts start flying through your mind.. it's rather annoying. Guess I need to train myself to relax, breath and focus.

Solving mathematical equations is against my religion.

Caret. That's a caret symbol, not a carrot.

Not that squiggle, the earlier squiggle. After the 3.

Not that squiggle, the earlier squiggle. After the 3.
I think that's meant to be a "divided by the square root of" etc.