NationStates Jolt Archive

No, not that one. The other one, which you never heard about because he was the good guy.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/6400879.stm
Anniversary of deadly Taiwan riot

Commemorative events are being held throughout the week as Taiwan marks the 60th anniversary of what is known as the "2/28 incident".

The event was an uprising that began on 28 February 1947, sparked by the beating of a female vendor by authorities for selling untaxed cigarettes.

Between 18,000 and 28,000 people are said to have been killed in riots and a subsequent crackdown.

Chiang Kai-shek, leader of the Kuomintang, or Chinese Nationalists - then based in mainland China - ordered his troops to Taiwan to quell the riots.

Two years later, he and his supporters fled to the island after losing to the Communists in the Chinese civil war.

-continues-

Wow, you're right, I'd never heard of that. Horrible stuff.

The only difference between Chiang Kai-Sek and Mao Zedong was that the latter had a hundred times more people to screw over. In his heart of hearts, Chiang was just about a big a douchebag as you can get.

Loads of people commend him for leading the resistance against the Reds... apologism, plain and simple.

The only difference between Chiang Kai-Sek and Mao Zedong was that the latter had a hundred times more people to screw over. In his heart of hearts, Chiang was just about a big a douchebag as you can get.

Loads of people commend him for leading the resistance against the Reds... apologism, plain and simple.
Kai-Shek's country seems to be doing just a teensy bit better than Mao's, though.

The event was an uprising that began on 28 February 1947, sparked by the beating of a female vendor by authorities for selling untaxed cigarettes.

Between 18,000 and 28,000 people are said to have been killed in riots and a subsequent crackdown.


SURGEON GENERAL'S WARNING:
Smoking May Cause Lung Cancer, Heart Disease,
Emphysema, And Massive, Debilitating Riots.


.

No, not that one. The other one, which you never heard about because he was the good guy.



Oh. I wondered which one, because Chinese history is so full of massacres that they even beat Europe at it! Rats, we've lost even the "most violent continent" contest...

Kai-Shek's country seems to be doing just a teensy bit better than Mao's, though.

Chiang's. (Asian names give the surname first, then the first name.)

Chiang's. (Asian names give the surname first, then the first name.)
I know, but isn't Mao's first name Mao, though?

Guess not. Neeevermind.

SURGEON GENERAL'S WARNING:
Smoking May Cause Lung Cancer, Heart Disease,
Emphysema, And Massive, Debilitating Riots.


.

....boo! Poor taste, Rhaomi! Poor taste.

As for Chiang...he was no better than Tse Tung, really. It was just a crazy mixed up world of power and opposing political viewpoints used to motivate supporters into helping the man in question gain more power.

I know, but isn't Mao's first name Mao, though?

Nope. It's Zedong/Tse-tung.

Nope. It's Zedong/Tse-tung.

I hate it when textbooks respell the names phonetically. It's spelled Tse-Tung in the latin alphabet, you fools, not Zedong! Just because people would need to learn how to pronounce the word different from how it's spelled doesn't mean you respell it! Sheesh.

I hate it when textbooks respell the names phonetically. It's spelled Tse-Tung in the latin alphabet, you fools, not Zedong! Just because people would need to learn how to pronounce the word different from how it's spelled doesn't mean you respell it! Sheesh.

What?

Most modern Chinese textbooks have it as Zedong and most media follow that spelling.

Tse Tung actually comes from Cantonese rather than Mandarin

I hate it when textbooks respell the names phonetically. It's spelled Tse-Tung in the latin alphabet, you fools, not Zedong! Just because people would need to learn how to pronounce the word different from how it's spelled doesn't mean you respell it! Sheesh.

Get upset easily, do you? :P


Tse Tung actually comes from Cantonese rather than Mandarin

That was what I thought.

What?

Most modern Chinese textbooks have it as Zedong and most media follow that spelling.

Tse Tung actually comes from Cantonese rather than Mandarin

...really? Oh. Whoops.

Kanabia: Depends on the subject, but on this? Not really. I just like ranting about it. Or I did till Barringtonia here ruined my fun.

...really? Oh. Whoops.

Kanabia: Depends on the subject, but on this? Not really. I just like ranting about it. Or I did till Barringtonia here ruined my fun.

I'm a card-carrying fun killer, I eat fun for breakfast

I'm ashamed to say I'd never heard of this. Thank you for informing us.

(I also get irritated when people think an Asian person's given name is their family name. When you know that Kim Jong-Il is the son of Kim Il-Sung, it should help you realise that Kim is their family name... It's not "Mr. Jong-Il". Even NS gets it wrong. Ever had an issue pop up where one of the advisers was "Max Jong-Il", the man with no family name? *shudders*)

I hate it when textbooks respell the names phonetically. It's spelled Tse-Tung in the latin alphabet, you fools, not Zedong! Just because people would need to learn how to pronounce the word different from how it's spelled doesn't mean you respell it! Sheesh.

Lecture disregarded. Apparently aimed only at fools. Thankyou.

Oh look. It's Osama bin Laden, doing the Long March.

Piss off into the hills, let the incumbent power attack the populace because they can't hit you, then walk back out and claim victory.

There are incumbents so incompetent that the best strategy to defeat them is "hey, whatever." Chiang Kai-Shek was one. George W. Bush is another.

This should be a corollary of Godwin's Apocryphal Law. First to compare a historical event with GWB and Iraq, automatically cedes their point and renounces any claim to be considered seriously. The "Iraqwin defence."

Oh look. It's Osama bin Laden, doing the Long March.

Piss off into the hills, let the incumbent power attack the populace because they can't hit you, then walk back out and claim victory.

There are incumbents so incompetent that the best strategy to defeat them is "hey, whatever." Chiang Kai-Shek was one. George W. Bush is another.

This should be a corollary of Godwin's Apocryphal Law. First to compare a historical event with GWB and Iraq, automatically cedes their point and renounces any claim to be considered seriously. The "Iraqwin defence."

Um, what?

Um, what?

I'm saying that Chiang Kai-Shek was a complete incompetent who alienated the Chinese people so badly that Mickey Mouse (no ... too good ... Yosemite Sam) could have taken control of China.

The Long March is bullshit. The Reds fled to the hills. They only came back out because the Nationalists messed it up so good.

The other thing: during a war, it is reasonable to assume that everyone's perceptions are distorted (participants anyway.) Leaping apon any historical event to support a "Bush is evil capitalist imperialist" or "Iraq war is the birth pangs of world democracy" position is no better than comparing a current opinion with Nazism. AKA Godwin.

The other thing: during a war, it is reasonable to assume that everyone's perceptions are distorted (participants anyway.) Leaping apon any historical event to support a "Bush is evil capitalist imperialist" or "Iraq war is the birth pangs of world democracy" position is no better than comparing a current opinion with Nazism. AKA Godwin.

Where did that happen on this thread?

I'm saying that Chiang Kai-Shek was a complete incompetent who alienated the Chinese people so badly that Mickey Mouse (no ... too good ... Yosemite Sam) could have taken control of China.

The Long March is bullshit. The Reds fled to the hills. They only came back out because the Nationalists messed it up so good.

The other thing: during a war, it is reasonable to assume that everyone's perceptions are distorted (participants anyway.) Leaping apon any historical event to support a "Bush is evil capitalist imperialist" or "Iraq war is the birth pangs of world democracy" position is no better than comparing a current opinion with Nazism. AKA Godwin.

I got the first bit - don't know enough about the long march to know if you're right, but still.

The second part:
Where did that happen on this thread?
Exactly, did I miss something here?

Where did that happen on this thread?

Me. I did it.
Perhaps it illustrated a point, or perhaps it was a cynical grab for the booby prize this thread is headed for anyway.

Should be a corollary of Godwin's. All I'm saying.

Get back to talking about 2/28. Never mind me.

I knew the Peanut was bad, but I never knew about this.:(

I'm saying that Chiang Kai-Shek was a complete incompetent who alienated the Chinese people so badly that Mickey Mouse (no ... too good ... Yosemite Sam) could have taken control of China.

The Long March is bullshit. The Reds fled to the hills. They only came back out because the Nationalists messed it up so good.

The other thing: during a war, it is reasonable to assume that everyone's perceptions are distorted (participants anyway.) Leaping apon any historical event to support a "Bush is evil capitalist imperialist" or "Iraq war is the birth pangs of world democracy" position is no better than comparing a current opinion with Nazism. AKA Godwin.

Fleeing to the hills was an achievement in itself; the Communist leadership should have been decimated. Some would say that they were gambling on Chiang messing it up, but the fact was they had no option but to run. Still, you can't say the Long March is "bullshit" - keeping the party alive was a remarkable success.

Edit: In anticipation of any response about how the Communists shouldn't have been in that position in the first place - Chiang had massive international support. Even Stalin was on his side, jealous at the idea of a rival Communist state.

SURGEON GENERAL'S WARNING:
Smoking May Cause Lung Cancer, Heart Disease,
Emphysema, And Massive, Debilitating Riots.


.

Rhaomi wins.

Eh.

The Taiwanese have democratized and liberalized. It makes no sense to hold them responsible for this.

Eh.

The Taiwanese have democratized and liberalized. It makes no sense to hold them responsible for this.
'mmhmm. Especially since the Taiwanese government acknowledged Chiang Kai-Shek was a murderer. Unlike some in the region. *glares menacingly at PRC*

Fleeing to the hills was an achievement in itself; the Communist leadership should have been decimated. Some would say that they were gambling on Chiang messing it up, but the fact was they had no option but to run. Still, you can't say the Long March is "bullshit" - keeping the party alive was a remarkable success.

Fair cop. "Bullshit" is a bit strong ... they did what they had to do, and later passed it off as brilliant strategy, enlisting the peasants to their cause, when really they were saving their own asses. Or bullocks or whatever :p

'mmhmm. Especially since the Taiwanese government acknowledged Chiang Kai-Shek was a murderer. Unlike some in the region. *glares menacingly at PRC*

Erm, I'm sure that the PRC will be more than willing to wax lyrical about the evils of Chiang Kai-Sek...

And what was with that comment earlier about Taiwan being better off than Mainland China... that's just clearly not true.

Erm, I'm sure that the PRC will be more than willing to wax lyrical about the evils of Chiang Kai-Sek...

And what was with that comment earlier about Taiwan being better off than Mainland China... that's just clearly not true.
Oops. Mao, I mean. :p

Well, Taiwan's GDP per capita is twenty times the size of the PRC's, their HDI is two or three points higher, and they have free elections and also don't tend to steal the organs of political prisoners.

I hate it when textbooks respell the names phonetically. It's spelled Tse-Tung in the latin alphabet, you fools, not Zedong! Just because people would need to learn how to pronounce the word different from how it's spelled doesn't mean you respell it! Sheesh.

That's why it's so much more fun living in a a country where the people who originally developed the written language were sane, and made the entire written language phonetic. None of this "it's written this way just because it is" bullshit, just a language where anyone who has seen it written down instantly know how to spell it and everyone who has heard it instantly knows how to write it down.

... Part of this is quite probably because the finnish written language was literally developed by one man, as opposed to forming on it's own during a large period of time like germanic/latin-based written languages.

Fried Tuna;12378155']That's why it's so much more fun living in a a country where the people who originally developed the written language were sane, and made the entire written language phonetic. None of this "it's written this way just because it is" bullshit, just a language where anyone who has seen it written down instantly know how to spell it and everyone who has heard it instantly knows how to write it down.
English is going that way. English is so damn good, we need to change it's moniker. English is a two-dollar whore, and I love it!

... Part of this is quite probably because the finnish written language was literally developed by one man, as opposed to forming on it's own during a large period of time like germanic/latin-based written languages.

So like Esperanto and Unix, it's more about being right than about anyone having a clue what you're on about?

Fried Tuna;12378155']... Part of this is quite probably because the finnish written language was literally developed by one man, as opposed to forming on it's own during a large period of time like germanic/latin-based written languages.

Spanish, which is latin-based, is entirely phonetic. Everything is pronounced as it is written.

I hate it when textbooks respell the names phonetically. It's spelled Tse-Tung in the latin alphabet, you fools, not Zedong! Just because people would need to learn how to pronounce the word different from how it's spelled doesn't mean you respell it! Sheesh.
Actually, Seesh for you.:rolleyes: According to the Chinese government, "Zedong" has been the correct spelling ever since 1958; when Pinyin ("Spell Sound") Romanization was introudced along with the Simplified Characters as part of Mao's literacy programme (his one policy that actually worked, as usual for command economies).
The only places that hold on to the style you mention, Wade-Giles (devised by British linguists during the Nineteenth Century), are Taiwan, Hong Kong, Macau, some Chinese Diaspora communities, and certain Western intellectuals who hold on to Totalitarianism theory in deriding anything the Chinese Communist Party has ever done; whether successful (Pinyin, Market Socialism) or failed (Great Leap Forward, Cultural Revolution).

Fried Tuna;12378155']That's why it's so much more fun living in a a country where the people who originally developed the written language were sane, and made the entire written language phonetic. None of this "it's written this way just because it is" bullshit, just a language where anyone who has seen it written down instantly know how to spell it and everyone who has heard it instantly knows how to write it down.

Well, English was a fully phonetic language before the Great Vowel Shift in the 15th and 16th centuries. It was that change in the way words were pronounced that led to the screwed-up spelling we have for many of our words today.

Eh.

The Taiwanese have democratized and liberalized. It makes no sense to hold them responsible for this. Taiwanese democratized AFTER Chiang Kai-shek death in 1975 and the country remained under marital law until 1980, elections were held in 1990. We shouldn't blame the Taiwanese, but we should blame Chiang Kai-shek's ugly authoritative regime.

country remained under marital law until 1980, elections were held in 1990

Democratic divorce or sth?