NationStates Jolt Archive

http://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htworld/articles/20070225.aspx

I think it's rather a long shot, but what would happen?

Chavez would probably be held at gunpoint or dead within a few months as NATO forces occupy Caracas, freeze his finances and seize PDVSA.

It'd be a perfect chance for the US to implement its will on the Venezuelan government....

:rolleyes:

These people don't even try even more....

http://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htworld/articles/20070225.aspx

I think it's rather a long short, but what would happen?
Long story short?
Long shot?
Some new phrase i don't know?

Long story short?
Long shot?
Some new phrase i don't know?

:D How about a good catch, Mr. Shark Bite. ;)

Hugo Chavez, regardless of all his bluster and the praise heaped on him by dimwitted socialists worldwide, is nothing more than a petty little thug. He's nothing but empty rhetoric (kinda like his failed economic policies) and I highly doubt he has the balls to actually try and take anything from the Dutch. Even though invading Aruba proably wouldn't invoke Article Five of the NATO Charter (it's not in North America or Europe), I doubt the Dutch would ahve a lot of problems rounding up allies to put Chavez back in his place. Hell, I'd proably volunteer to fight for the Dutch myself.

The dutch really don't have any power projection capability. But I suppose if they committed to the long haul they could build up the forces to do it. They are, after all, quite a wealthy nation.

Though I imagine that the UK and France would be all over helping them, because like the Dutch they have vulnerable territories, so they would be inclined to defend the principle so to speak. So I imagine it would be over quite quickly.

Hugo Chavez, regardless of all his bluster and the praise heaped on him by dimwitted socialists worldwide, is nothing more than a petty little thug. He's nothing but empty rhetoric (kinda like his failed economic policies) and I highly doubt he has the balls to actually try and take anything from the Dutch. Even though invading Aruba proably wouldn't invoke Article Five of the NATO Charter (it's not in North America or Europe), I doubt the Dutch would ahve a lot of problems rounding up allies to put Chavez back in his place. Hell, I'd proably volunteer to fight for the Dutch myself.

Chavez legitimately won a democratic election.....thug? he has started how many illegal wars?...none....so what does that make GWB?...a big time thug?.....empty rhetoric, yeah "mission accomplished", "axis of evil", "yer with us or yer a terrorist":rolleyes:

failed socialism?... Chavez inherited an economy on a downhill slide turning it around will take time maybe a another decade, USA instigated the coup that cost Venezuela 8billion dollars which hurt....last year was actually a relatively good year in Venzuela financially...

and what makes you think the very socialist dutch would want you to fight for them?

as for Venezuela attacking the ABC's?... can't see it happening....

The Dutch alone probably wouldn't have the man power or the resources to force Venezeula to do anything, However if Britain helped or other Dutch allies it'd be a clear Venezeulain defeat. Now, I have no idea why Chavez is seen as so evil. He's implementing Socialism, so? thats a good thing, half of Europe is Socialist too. From what I've read he's done allot more good than evil, US only hates him cuz he ripped on bush, oh wawawaw cry about it somemore meat heads.

I'd say the Dutch marines would end the conflict fairly quickly

half of Europe is Socialist too.

Ha.

The Dutch alone probably wouldn't have the man power or the resources to force Venezeula to do anything, However if Britain helped or other Dutch allies it'd be a clear Venezeulain defeat. Now, I have no idea why Chavez is seen as so evil. He's implementing Socialism, so? thats a good thing, half of Europe is Socialist too. From what I've read he's done allot more good than evil, US only hates him cuz he ripped on bush, oh wawawaw cry about it somemore meat heads.

He might have some good social programs here and there, but he is just shy of being a dictator. Thats a no-no

We nuke them from orbit, it's the only way to be sure.


In reality: Let them have those islands.

In reality: Let them have those islands.

Despite what the natives think?

He might have some good social programs here and there, but he is just shy of being a dictator. Thats a no-no
Unless you are an East Asian nation pretending to play nice with the US, then you are a-ok.

Despite what the natives think?They're Dutch, I'm Dutch, I say they can have them.:D

I wonder why would Venezuela try and invade that territories. Does Venezuela need them? I don't think so, and it would resolve in Venezuela getting blasted by the WEU.

Ok, Venezuela might have Su-30s, but even an air force of 100 Su-30s would be obliterated as soon as the WEU intervenes (its members would be compelled to intervene in such an unlikely event).

Luckily Chavez isn't a madman.

First of all, just to be sure: Chavez hasn't actually threatened to do this, has he? This is just hypothetical, I assume.

But if he did, I think he'd have to worry about the combined weight of NATO coming down on him, hard. It was easy enough to put together a coalition when Iraq invaded Kuwait, and in this case, the coalition is pre-made. And yeah, Bush would love the chance to put someone of his choosing in power in Venezuela. They have oil, after all. Maybe his brother Jeb, or his cousin Bandar (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bandar_bin_Sultan), woould be made Supreme Dictator of Venezuela and CEO of Citgo.

You know that the US would gladly spring to the aid of their allies against a professional asshat like Chavez.

All the same though, the Dutch would win without the US. They've got a fine modern military, and could easily defend against Mr. Chavez's forces.

You know that the US would gladly spring to the aid of their allies against a professional asshat like Chavez.

All the same though, the Dutch would win without the US. They've got a fine modern military, and could easily defend against Mr. Chavez's forces.

Asshat?

What do you think we are?, Barbarians?

Yeah, sure, we don't have a modern military here in Venezuela. We charge with a lot of pointy sticks, screaming.

What do you think we are?, Barbarians?

Yeah, sure, we don't have a modern military here in Venezuela. We charge with a lot of pointy sticks, screaming.

I did find this picture of you, Aelosia...

http://www.free-game.co.uk/adr/images/classes/Female%20Barbarian.gif

:p

Asshat?

What do you think we are?, Barbarians?

Yeah, sure, we don't have a modern military here in Venezuela. We charge with a lot of pointy sticks, screaming.

actually iirc there was a thread a few months ago about soldiers in the venezuelian rainforest fighting with bows or something. or maybe the thread started out with something else and someone posted about how awesome bows are.

meh

I did find this picture of you, Aelosia...

http://www.free-game.co.uk/adr/images/classes/Female%20Barbarian.gif

:p

Yeah, exactly.

I'll play my Xena the warrior princess fighting the dutch.

Heil the new Duchess of Alba.

Asshat?

What do you think we are?, Barbarians?

Yeah, sure, we don't have a modern military here in Venezuela. We charge with a lot of pointy sticks, screaming.

I'm deriding Mr. Chavez, not the people of Venezuela. I would readily use the same term to describe my President.

The Dutch, though, have a fine military, with a very nice small navy.

Venezuela, frankly, doesn't have the transport capacity to effectively threaten these islands all at once, and what the Dutch would need is time to transport their forces into the region. Time is what they'd probably get by asking the US for help, the US owes them for cooperating with us regularly, after all. Once the Dutch manage to get their navy down there, it's over. The Dutch Navy mounts 9 extremely modern frigates, against Venezuela's six Italian Lupo type ships.

actually iirc there was a thread a few months ago about soldiers in the venezuelian rainforest fighting with bows or something. or maybe the thread started out with something else and someone posted about how awesome bows are.

meh

Venezuelan soldiers do not fight with bows. They have either FAL, UZI, or lately, AK-103 rifles. I have seen some units with Steyrs and P90 too.That's entirely stupid.

The only ones that use bows in our rainforests are our native indians, and just to impress the typically stupid US tourists.

Of course, easy for you to say that, after all you haven't seen a Venezuelan soldier in your life.

I'm deriding Mr. Chavez, not the people of Venezuela. I would readily use the same term to describe my President.

The Dutch, though, have a fine military, with a very nice small navy.

Venezuela, frankly, doesn't have the transport capacity to effectively threaten these islands all at once, and what the Dutch would need is time to transport their forces into the region. Time is what they'd probably get by asking the US for help, the US owes them for cooperating with us regularly, after all. Once the Dutch manage to get their navy down there, it's over. The Dutch Navy mounts 9 extremely modern frigates, against Venezuela's six Italian Lupo type ships.

All at once, yes, you have a point. However, once we take the first, we could take the others using paratroopers.

After all, the islands are so close that we could use even civilian ships to bring soldiers there.

Of course, if the US intervenes there is no chance for anything else than surrender or be bombed back to the stone age, with north american marines raping us on the streets and sending our men to secret jails.

Of course, if the US intervenes there is no chance for anything else than surrender or be bombed back to the stone age, with north american marines raping us on the streets and sending our men to secret jails.
You take that back! US soldiers would never rape a woman on the streets, blocking traffic and inconveniencing commuters like some kind of Communist barbarian.
They'd wait until she was inside her house where no one would be bothered but the family, because that is the sort of concern for the individual and community that we train our soldiers to have.

Killing the family first, and then blaming them for being resistance fighters, then?
Exactly, at least it insures that no one has to get an abortion afterward.
Remember kids, no witnesses means never having to say you're sorry.

Killing the family first, and then blaming them for being resistance fighters, then?

All at once, yes, you have a point. However, once we take the first, we could take the others using paratroopers.

After all, the islands are so close that we could use even civilian ships to bring soldiers there.

Of course, if the US intervenes there is no chance for anything else than surrender or be bombed back to the stone age, with north american marines raping us on the streets and sending our men to secret jails.

I'd imagine the Dutch would have some level of forewarning before such an amphibious operation, and would seek to reinforce their positions on the islands with increased troop presence, and deploying further fighter squadrons to the region.

There's another area where the Dutch would seek to gain the upper hand: Air power. If they could dominate the air, they could dominate the seas and force the issue to a standoff, to be arbitrated by a third power, perhaps the South Koreas, or maybe the Swedes.

I'd imagine the Dutch would have some level of forewarning before such an amphibious operation, and would seek to reinforce their positions on the islands with increased troop presence, and deploying further fighter squadrons to the region.

There's another area where the Dutch would seek to gain the upper hand: Air power. If they could dominate the air, they could dominate the seas and force the issue to a standoff, to be arbitrated by a third power, perhaps the South Koreas, or maybe the Swedes.

In the air, things could be rather equal, I think.

Venezuelan pilots have an outstanding record on training flights and international exercises.

Plus, Venezuela would have the advantage of having anti aircraft defense, if moving to the islands the SAM batteries.

But luckily, none of that will happen.

In the air, things could be rather equal, I think.

Venezuelan pilots have an outstanding record on training flights and international exercises.

Plus, Venezuela would have the advantage of having anti aircraft defense, if moving to the islands the SAM batteries.

But luckily, none of that will happen.

Aye, fortunately this situation is extremely unlikely.

He might have some good social programs here and there, but he is just shy of being a dictator. Thats a no-no
Strictly a matter of opinion. Remember that in the Roman Republic the office of Dictator was constitutional. It technically had a term limit of six months, but progressively overriding such is one of the perks of absolute power after all.:D So long as some sort of legal basis is maintained, IMHO there's nothing wrong at all with being a dictator. Probably better, actually, since you don't have to worry about the election cycle and thus can be in it for the long haul, while devising/revising policy accordingly.
Back on-topic; Chavez would have to win quickly if he even tried this, or the next coup in Caracas would have the letters 'USMC' stamped all over it. The Lupos could conceivably stand against the Dutch ships (most aren't too newer IIRC, especially counting recent Dutch defense cuts); and the air would belong to Chavez once the new MiG-29Ms or MiG-35s arrive. One flight of 3 (again, IIRC) MLU F-16As is decent, especially with AIM-120s, but can only do so much when vastly outnumbered by newer machines in the hands of arguably-comparable pilots. If worst comes to worst and "los Yanquis" get involved before Chavez gets his own "Mission Accomplished" moment in Aruba, then his buddy Castro can always serve as a shield. (I can't imagine that even Bush wouldn't catch the sort of opportunity this scenario would hand him regarding Cuba...:rolleyes:)

the entire idea of invasion is unlikely, any gain for Venezuela would pale in comparison to the trouble it would bring itself....there is economic trade between the islands and Venezuela but culturally, linguistically and politically the ABC's have no connection to Venezuela....and there is no yearning in the ABCs to be part of Venezuela that I'm aware of...

The terrorists win.

:D How about a good catch, Mr. Shark Bite. ;)
So that is why you are in Japan, for the Shark fin soup.

Netherlands would win.