NationStates Jolt Archive

Sorority Evictions Raise Issue of Looks and Bias (http://www.nytimes.com/2007/02/25/education/25sorority.html?ex=1330059600&en=d9623f20d02771fc&ei=5090&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss)

"Worried that a negative stereotype of the sorority was contributing to a decline in membership that had left its Greek-columned house here half empty, Delta Zeta’s national officers interviewed 35 DePauw members in November, quizzing them about their dedication to recruitment. They judged 23 of the women insufficiently committed and later told them to vacate the sorority house.

The 23 members included every woman who was overweight. They also included the only black, Korean and Vietnamese members. The dozen students allowed to stay were slender and popular with fraternity men — conventionally pretty women the sorority hoped could attract new recruits. Six of the 12 were so infuriated they quit."


jeebus. who thought this was a good idea?

The national chapter thought it was a good idea, and if my experience in a Greek organization is any indication, they won't have to worry about the local chapter for long. It'll die a quick and painless death.

I noticed this in the NY Times earlier today, my reaction was basicly "wait they are actualy straight out saying that they are not only refusing, but out right ejecting people based on looks? What the fuck I mean as if that wasn't stupid enough to begin with they actually want other people to know thats what htey are doing? WTF?"

No better way to improve your numbers than kicking more nearly 2 thirds of your members out.



Thus causing half of the remaining to quit outright.

Sounds like a few new pledges for the Sisters of Omega Mu next rush week!

Easy Dee-Zees, what a surprise.

Thank god OSU ain't a greek school. The majority here realize that most greek stuff is seventeen different types of lame.

This should certainly solve their recruitment problems. Permanently.

Fraternities and Sororities have been on the skids since the '60's. They've been trying to adapt fo the times, but I think they've outlived their usefulness by several decades.

Easy Dee-Zees, what a surprise.

Thank god OSU ain't a greek school. The majority here realize that most greek stuff is seventeen different types of lame.

One would think that's because they're not exposed to it...oh well...to each his/her own.

As for "Easy DZ's," I'm glad that's spread nation-wide lol.

Fraternities and Sororities have been on the skids since the '60's. They've been trying to adapt fo the times, but I think they've outlived their usefulness by several decades.

One would wonder the difference in times that they need to "adapt" to (doesn't everything adapt with the times?), or the differences between their "usefulness" now versus then...?

One would think that's because they're not exposed to it...oh well...to each his/her own.
As the university grew, the greek life didn't, and rarely did greek life evolve at OSU. Only one fraternity I know of was even worth me taking a look at.

Of course, I've been indoctrinated into avoiding greek life, so that shouldn't surprise anyone.

As for "Easy DZ's," I'm glad that's spread nation-wide lol.

It's a great example of a meme, that's both enlightening and hilarious.

Sorority Evictions Raise Issue of Looks and Bias (http://www.nytimes.com/2007/02/25/education/25sorority.html?ex=1330059600&en=d9623f20d02771fc&ei=5090&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss)

"Worried that a negative stereotype of the sorority was contributing to a decline in membership that had left its Greek-columned house here half empty, Delta Zeta’s national officers interviewed 35 DePauw members in November, quizzing them about their dedication to recruitment. They judged 23 of the women insufficiently committed and later told them to vacate the sorority house.

The 23 members included every woman who was overweight. They also included the only black, Korean and Vietnamese members. The dozen students allowed to stay were slender and popular with fraternity men — conventionally pretty women the sorority hoped could attract new recruits. Six of the 12 were so infuriated they quit."


jeebus. who thought this was a good idea?

Ah good, somebody posted this. (I had been readsing it in the IHT on my way to work yesterday, and was meaninmg to post it when I got home, but forgot about it.)



Here's the statement from the organization's national president:

http://www.deltazeta.org./pages/content/dz_happenings.html

I suspect the DePauw chapter will get their wish to close now after all.

After years of struggling to recruit, Delta Zeta DePauw members voted in August to close the chapter at the end of the 2006-2007 school year. The women's majority vote meant that they could live in the house and be relieved of active membership duties, including the intense work of recruiting on a daily basis. The intent was for Delta Zeta to close and reorganize to return at a later date.

On September 12th the request for reorganization was denied by the University. The University indicated that Delta Zeta, which has been on the DePauw campus for 98 years, would not be guaranteed a return. University officials asked Delta Zeta to undertake a membership review.

Delta Zeta members, who could support the national plan to actively recruit, were asked to remain active. Other members, who no longer wanted to engage in day-to-day recruiting, became alumnae members of the Sorority.

The sole basis of the decision and the membership review was the women's commitment to actively recruit.

Oh, well. Greek life is just an excuse for the rich and privileged to celebrate being rich and privileged by excluding anyone who isn't, and thereby perpetuating their group delusion that they are entitled to everything in life.

At least, that's the way it usually is. My college has a local fraternity, Delta Psi Delta, that's pretty eclectic, and the sororities are basically giant social circles (they don't have houses). The other three frats are about what you'd expect, though. At least they do a lot of community service. However, I've discovered that no fraternity offers me anything desirable that I couldn't get somewhere else without having to pay lots of money for it, and that the rest of it really doesn't interest me. I'm not one for slavish conformity anyway.

The girls who got kicked out of that sorority can quite fairly claim that they were too good for it.

what exactly is a sorority/fraternity and greek life?

what exactly is a sorority/fraternity and greek life?

Yeah, I was wondering that too. We don't have it in Blighty.

what exactly is a sorority/fraternity and greek life?

I too am lost as to the point of fraternities and sororities.
Yeah, I was wondering that too. We don't have it in Blighty.

Nor here in Potato Blighty :D

Yeah, I was wondering that too. We don't have it in Blighty.

Imagine your university rugby team, but they get to choose who gets to join and they own a house where they can all live. Pretty similar deal.

Easy Dee-Zees, what a surprise.

Thank god OSU ain't a greek school. The majority here realize that most greek stuff is seventeen different types of lame.
But when I lived on Indianola around 14th, the Frats were always a good place to stop for a beer on the way home. Don't say they were completely useless.

I too am lost as to the point of fraternities and sororities.


Nor here in Potato Blighty :D

For that you win five references to Britain of your choosing. But you have to supply me a new keyboard first. :D

If one accepts that the primary function of a sorority is to provide fuckable females for frat boys, then what this "sisterhood" did is perfectly reasonable.

Note: While some sororities are noted for recruiting girls on this basis the same cannot be said for all of them.

If one accepts that the primary function of a sorority is to provide fuckable females for frat boys, then what this "sisterhood" did is perfectly reasonable.

wiki learned me that we have something similar here in Belgium. i'm actually a non-active member (meaning i didn't participate in the initation). here they don't have houses though. the main function of 'student organisations' here is to help newer students by providing books, notes and example questions and of course by organizing parties.
the initation is quite stupid though, i don't know why anybody who isn't into bdsm would participate in it, there are also almost no benefits (exept the group feeling but what's so great about that?).

anyway, it sucks for the girls who got expelled but who would want to be member of an organisation wich does that?

Imagine your university rugby team, but they get to choose who gets to join and they own a house where they can all live. Pretty similar deal.

Oh, right. So why does anyone care?

Oh, right. So why does anyone care?
some people get pickey about elitism.

Now imagine - you are at a school where up to 80% of the school population is in such organisations and the majority of social events at the school are organised by these groups - where the groups control who enters.

Frats and Sororities form a huge part of many Colleges social scenes.

But when I lived on Indianola around 14th, the Frats were always a good place to stop for a beer on the way home. Don't say they were completely useless.

Of course they're good for that :D

some people get pickey about elitism.

Now imagine - you are at a school where up to 80% of the school population is in such organisations and the majority of social events at the school are organised by these groups - where the groups control who enters.

Frats and Sororities form a huge part of many Colleges social scenes.

Ah, right.

It doesn't work like that in British universities. You have societies, all of which are vaguely funded by the Student Union according to membership (I think), and they all have to let anyone who wants in in*. They tend to be based on a particular activity (Eg. rugby, chess, horse riding) or social group (gay/lesbian, religions), and people only tend to join the ones they care about.

* There was a fuss recently about some Christian society being denied funding because (from memory) they required people who sat on the board to sign a statement of religious belief. You don't get to decide who's in and who's not, or even who's on the board (that's elected, in my experience).

Ah, right.

It doesn't work like that in British universities. You have societies, all of which are vaguely funded by the Student Union according to membership (I think), and they all have to let anyone who wants in in*. They tend to be based on a particular activity (Eg. rugby, chess, horse riding) or social group (gay/lesbian, religions), and people only tend to join the ones they care about.

* There was a fuss recently about some Christian society being denied funding because (from memory) they required people who sat on the board to sign a statement of religious belief. You don't get to decide who's in and who's not, or even who's on the board (that's elected, in my experience).

Perhaps I should have mentioned I'm British and went though the British University system :D

I just know a lot of Americans and spend a lot of time over there.

Perhaps I should have mentioned I'm British and went though the British University system :D

I just know a lot of Americans and spend a lot of time over there.

Ah right. Sorry, didn't realise :)

Fraternities and sororities aren't terribly big at my school, there is one fraternity and one sorority and I only know two people in the fraternity and they're both losers. I don't know if they're big elsewhere in Canada or if they're generally considered stupid.

I think it was probably because of the university I went to, but the sororities and fraternities weren't nearly as bad as stereotypes might suggest. I know a lot of people in the Greek system, and for the most part they're quality people. They have their share of jerks, of course, but no more than you would expect to find in the general population.

Official Meh'

Fraternities and Mate..er Sororities are retarded to begin with. Anything club with exclusive acceptance is retarded. And claiming to be Greek while using names derived from Latin is furtherly retarded.

The girls who got kicked out of that sorority can quite fairly claim that they were too good for it.

yeah but the 6 who stayed have an official "certificate of pretty (and shallow)". those arent easy to come by.

Everyone knows fat people suck anyway.

What are fat people doing in a "greek" house? Greeks held the body in their highest regard, while fat people dont give a damn about their health.

yeah but the 6 who stayed have an official "certificate of pretty (and shallow)". those arent easy to come by.

why would they have to be shallow?

.
What are fat people doing in a "greek" house? Greeks held the body in their highest regard, while fat people dont give a damn about their health.

The ancient Greeks also fucked children.

When I was a university student, something like 20% of the undergraduate population was in the greek system. Sure, some people who were involved were fine, some were jerks, just like the rest of campus. I just never quite understood what the attraction to them was. I found the whole system to seem to be pretty irrelevant and useless to the university experience.

I did have to laugh at the sorority whose members all had long dark permed (hey, it was the 80s) hair and all had their white cars -- mostly Jettas -- parked neatly in front of their house. Most of them did seem to have a particular "look" to them.

why would they have to be shallow?

because the pretty girls with integrity quit.

Imagine your university rugby team, but they get to choose who gets to join and they own a house where they can all live. Pretty similar deal.
Egads! What a nightmare.

i would like to personally like to invite all those fat chicks over to my place...seriously, fat chicks do it best. LONG LIVE THE BBW!!!

Sorry, but if you're fat, unless your doctor can certify that you have a problem not related to overeating, it's your fault and you deserve to be discriminated against.

Fatties deserve nothing more than the death they're slowly approaching.

If one accepts that the primary function of a sorority is to provide fuckable females for frat boys, then what this "sisterhood" did is perfectly reasonable.

I had an angry response all ready...and then I saw who was posting this. What the hell? Is this your actual position, Bottle?

I had an angry response all ready...and then I saw who was posting this. What the hell? Is this your actual position, Bottle?

its a reasonable response to the situation. why ELSE would a national sorority remove 2/3s of its local members, none of whom qualfiy as "pretty white girl"?

is there an actual benefit to having all the girls fit a certain beauty standard outside of building a reputation of being the pretty girl sorority?

I had an angry response all ready...and then I saw who was posting this. What the hell? Is this your actual position, Bottle?Buh? You're confusing me. Bottle's post is both sarcastic and true. :confused:
Unless you're defending sororities from her characterization, but somehow I doubt that.

is there an actual benefit to having all the girls fit a certain beauty standard outside of building a reputation of being the pretty girl sorority?

to publicly shame yourselves more in the eyes of the world? to bring down the sorority system as a whole from the sheer retardedness of it all?

Sorry, but if you're fat, unless your doctor can certify that you have a problem not related to overeating, it's your fault and you deserve to be discriminated against.

Fatties deserve nothing more than the death they're slowly approaching.

I can not believe such ignorance still exists in this world. I sure hope there aren't any fat people in your family.

i would like to personally like to invite all those fat chicks over to my place...seriously, fat chicks do it best. LONG LIVE THE BBW!!!

You must be so proud to have that as one of your first five posts.

The ancient Greeks also fucked children.

SHH! Don't let the Super Adventure Club's secret out! It's how we keep such perfect health.

*shifty eyes*

I'm sorry, I had to say it. I'm on my way now.

I can not believe such ignorance still exists in this world. I sure hope there aren't any fat people in your family.

Of course there isn't. If there were, I'd give them about a year to lose it then I'd be so repelled by their gross appearance and lack of drive that I'd mock them for their gluttony and disown them.

Fat people are not people.

Of course there isn't. If there were, I'd give them about a year to lose it then I'd be so repelled by their gross appearance and lack of drive that I'd mock them for their gluttony and disown them.

Fat people are not people.

We have a new troll!

This one with some innovative opinions, as opposed to just drooling pro-americaism and right-wing views.

We have a new troll!

This one with some innovative opinions, as opposed to just drooling pro-americaism and right-wing views.

I do genuinely hold that opinion of fatties, so I'm not a troll.

I'm fascinated that our humanity can be stripped from us solely because of our weight. Moral conduct and contributions to society are utterly meaningless in the face of our BMI...that's the sole arbiter of our humanity.

Rather irrational and prejudiced, don't you think?

I was exaggerating to make a point. While fat people may be people, they do not deserve protection from mocking or discrimination. In fact, I encourage more of it. Perhaps they'll stop being fat.

Of course there isn't. If there were, I'd give them about a year to lose it then I'd be so repelled by their gross appearance and lack of drive that I'd mock them for their gluttony and disown them.

Fat people are not people.

Heh, angry skinny people are so funny. You know they're just envious of those who're happy to live their lives as they like without fear of what others think. That they really want the pie, or the ice-cream, but they forbid themselves because they're scared that other people won't like them any more should they become overweight.

Is that why you hate fat people, Mindset? Knowing that they're loved for who they are, whilst you're only loved because of your appearance?

Fat people are not people.

I'm fascinated that our humanity can be stripped from us solely because of our weight. Moral conduct and contributions to society are utterly meaningless in the face of our BMI...that's the sole arbiter of our humanity.

Rather irrational and prejudiced, don't you think?

And, for fun: define "fat". Do enlighten me as to where the cutoff for personhood is.

I'm fascinated that our humanity can be stripped from us solely because of our weight. Moral conduct and contributions to society are utterly meaningless in the face of our BMI...that's the sole arbiter of our humanity.

Rather irrational and prejudiced, don't you think?

That boy better watch out or someone's gonna sit on him. ;)

I do genuinely hold that opinion of fatties, so I'm not a troll.

Please go back to the pro-ana forums, where you belong.

That boy better watch out or someone's gonna sit on him. ;)

Baron Harkonnen will open a can of 600-pound whoopass on him.

Please go back to the pro-ana forums, where you belong.

Makes me laugh. I don't care about what I eat. I eat enough to make me feel full yet I am not overweight. Fat people eat more than they need to feel full, making them fat. Anorexics are just as undeserving of my sympathy.

Makes me laugh. I don't care about what I eat. I eat enough to make me feel full yet I am not overweight. Fat people eat more than they need to feel full, makign them fat. Anorexics are just as undeserving of my sympathy.

Let me explain this to you:

You. Are. Cra. Zy.

Let me explain this to you:

You. Are. Cra. Zy.

Oh? Why are fat people fat, then? Fatness is a vicious cycle. You eat too much, you find it more difficult to exercise. If you eat too much, you eventually damage your hypothalamus' ability to tell you when you're full, making you eat even MORE.

Any fat person could be slim if they had the will power. Their lack of will power makes them unworthy of any sympathy.

Oh? Why are fat people fat, then?

A variety of reasons. Sometimes overeating, sometimes failure to exercise, genetic conditions, metabolism, eating disorders, diseases, etc.

Horses make terrible people.

Although they make excellent horses.

A variety of reasons. Sometimes overeating, sometimes failure to exercise, genetic conditions, metabolism, eating disorders, diseases, etc.

What trollop droppings. It's 99% eating disorders and failure to exercise. You may have a genetic predisposition to store more weight, but with sufficient willpower you could easily be as slim as the next person. I specifically excluded those suffering from diseases in my original criticism. The myth that fatties have slower metabolisms is just that: it's a myth, mostly propagated by the fatties themselves. Fat people burn more calories than thin people, because they have more bulk. They have HIGHER metabolisms.

But I digress and my point still stands. Fat people deserve no sympathy. They bring everything upon themselves.

Horses make terrible people.

Plenty of reasons. What you're naming is the symptoms, not the reason. Reasons include low self-esteem or low metabolism and plenty more (You could drink water instead of eat. People have a tendency to confuse thirst with hunger). See, I am not fat and I know exactly why that is - It's because I have a high metabolism. One day, it'll slow down. Until that day, well, I damn well better enjoy this body cause it won't last forever.

Do I eat a lot? Yep. Do I work out often? Nope.

But wait! I'm not fat! Is that my fault? Eh, no. Hardly.

No. You're being confused by common myths surrounding the nature of metabolism. The thirst/hunger distinction is less distinct in people who already overeat.

Oh? Why are fat people fat, then?

Plenty of reasons. What you're naming is the symptoms, not the reason. Reasons include low self-esteem or low metabolism and plenty more (You could drink water instead of eat. People have a tendency to confuse thirst with hunger). See, I am not fat and I know exactly why that is - It's because I have a high metabolism. One day, it'll slow down. Until that day, well, I damn well better enjoy this body cause it won't last forever.

Do I eat a lot? Yep. Do I work out often? Nope.

But wait! I'm not fat! Is that my fault? Eh, no. Hardly.

I sure hope there aren't any fat people in your family.

There is only one. Everyone else is totaly fit.

And he eats like a pig. I have nothing against him, in fact, he is one of my favorite family members, but he does eat like there is no tomorrow.

And, unfortunaly, his kid is going to be just like him. Why? Because he sees his father eating like a cow and copy that.

There is no excuse. Even if you have a big frame and big bones, if you´re fat its your fault.

Sorority Evictions Raise Issue of Looks and Bias (http://www.nytimes.com/2007/02/25/education/25sorority.html?ex=1330059600&en=d9623f20d02771fc&ei=5090&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss)

"Worried that a negative stereotype of the sorority was contributing to a decline in membership that had left its Greek-columned house here half empty, Delta Zeta’s national officers interviewed 35 DePauw members in November, quizzing them about their dedication to recruitment. They judged 23 of the women insufficiently committed and later told them to vacate the sorority house.

The 23 members included every woman who was overweight. They also included the only black, Korean and Vietnamese members. The dozen students allowed to stay were slender and popular with fraternity men — conventionally pretty women the sorority hoped could attract new recruits. Six of the 12 were so infuriated they quit."


jeebus. who thought this was a good idea?

An inbred hick who sleeps with her brother, probably.

There is only one. Everyone else is totaly fit.

And he eats like a pig. I have nothing against him, in fact, he is one of my favorite family members, but he does eat like there is no tomorrow.

And, unfortunaly, his kid is going to be just like him. Why? Because he sees his father eating like a cow and copy that.

There is no excuse. Even if you have a big frame and big bones, if you´re fat its your fault.

Wow... you just contradicted yourself.

I have a large appetite. I eat quite a bit. I also weigh 140 lbs. I have friends who dine on salad for dinner and exercise even more than I do and are still big. The human body is an incredibly complicated, fine-tuned system. Everyone's body functions differently. Now, I can understand it being a problem if someone doesn't take good care of themselves, but many people are stuck with persistent fat reserves even though they themselves are perfectly healthy and fit. Personally, I sometimes wish I had a little more fat on me; I get cold easily.

No. You're being confused by common myths surrounding the nature of metabolism. The thirst/hunger distinction is less distinct in people who already overeat.

Wrong, I have a high metabolism.

Where is the contradiction? That the kid is not at fault, because he has a fat father?

And about this familiar of mine, he did try a lot of diets and treatments. Everytime he did them, he got fit and much less overweight. Yet, once he stoped caring about what he ate, he just started eating as much as before and got fat again.

So, its his fault. Not that he cares much, the guy is much more happy than I am and everyone loves him.

Also, I exercise a lot. I usually do 40-50 km of running every week. And, in fact, I barely feel any hunger after my runs. Exercise not only makes you fit, but it also helps you to keep good eating habits.

and your background in medicine and human biology is...what, exactly?

Amateur but more informed than any who claim contrary to what I stated above.

No. You're being confused by common myths surrounding the nature of metabolism. The thirst/hunger distinction is less distinct in people who already overeat.

and your background in medicine and human biology is...what, exactly?

Heh, angry skinny people are so funny. You know they're just envious of those who're happy to live their lives as they like without fear of what others think. That they really want the pie, or the ice-cream, but they forbid themselves because they're scared that other people won't like them any more should they become overweight.

Is that why you hate fat people, Mindset? Knowing that they're loved for who they are, whilst you're only loved because of your appearance?

there are other reasons to not eat the pie or the ice-cream, health for instance. and what's bad with trying to look good? as long as it doesn't become an obsession i don't really see anything wrong with it.

What trollop droppings. It's 99% eating disorders and failure to exercise. You may have a genetic predisposition to store more weight, but with sufficient willpower you could easily be as slim as the next person. I specifically excluded those suffering from diseases in my original criticism. The myth that fatties have slower metabolisms is just that: it's a myth, mostly propagated by the fatties themselves. Fat people burn more calories than thin people, because they have more bulk. They have HIGHER metabolisms.

But I digress and my point still stands. Fat people deserve no sympathy. They bring everything upon themselves.

youve made quite a jump there.

you went from people being responsible for their own behavior--fat people being fat because of bad eating habits--to it being acceptable to discriminate against them for their size.

fat people may bring fat related diseases on themselves, that makes some logical sense, but they are not responsible for other people behavior. to suggest that another person's size makes it OK for you to treat them like dirt or that "they bring it on themselves", implying that you have no responsibility for your OWN behavior, is nutz.

youve made quite a jump there.

you went from people being responsible for their own behavior--fat people being fat because of bad eating habits--to it being acceptable to discriminate against them for their size.

fat people may bring fat related diseases on themselves, that makes some logical sense, but they are not responsible for other people behavior. to suggest that another person's size makes it OK for you to treat them like dirt or that "they bring it on themselves", implying that you have no responsibility for your OWN behavior, is nutz.

Your jump is no less ridiculous. You think that because he claims it to be ok to discriminate against fat people, he doesn't have responsibility for his behavior? What sense does that make?

The problem is that the world, America specifically, is becoming more and more overweight. Not only that, but they're beginning to make demands. The healthcare costs are astounding, as is their consumption of food. Add that to the fact that they take up two seats on an airline but think they should only pay for one, and it's disgusting in more ways than one.

The real culprit is not the overweight population, however, but the "it's ok to be fat" counterculture that tells little girls being a cow is ok because "not everyone can look like a model" or "barbie's unrealistic." Being fat is not ok. It's a miserable appearance, and not only that, but it's neither cost or health effective. Stll, our "culture of acceptance" tells all the fat kids out there that there's no reason to change, because they'll be loved for who they are, and that it's ok to be fat. Not only that, but so many claim that it's "not their fault" that they're fat, it's some mysterious disease or disposition. They do nothing, eat more, and ultimately grow up into fat adults who want more healthcare benefits.

This pathetic acceptance of what should not be accepted, and the moronic excuses for what can not be accepted is perhaps the most disgusting thing of all.

"barbie's unrealistic."

She is quite unrealistic ;) It would be not just rare, but incredible to find a girl that fits her body in scale.

A further note: Being chubby was long regarded as positive, being a status of wealth and such. Being chubby is not necessarily negative. Being overly fat may be, but discouraging them isn't going to encourage them.

I'm still genuinely interested in how being fat causes you to lose personhood.

The problem, as I've said before, of obesity can ultimately be traced back to the industrial food system. As natural beings, we aren't evolved to metabolize unnatural foods effectively. The furthest extreme is the vitamin pill, 95% of which passes straight through our body and out through our urine. We can't absorb it because it's so far removed from a natural food context. No wonder so many people are unhealthy; we're not eating right, and that's a more complicated proposition than any fad diet (or even the "good" ones) has yet tackled, because they end up treating the symptoms of our industrial food culture without curing the disease.

Your jump is no less ridiculous. You think that because he claims it to be ok to discriminate against fat people, he doesn't have responsibility for his behavior? What sense does that make?
"What sense does that make?"? Excellent question. Be sure to put it to The Mindset, he's the one who postulated it.

As for the question you're putting to Ashmoria, you might want to reread the post she was replying to: They bring everything upon themselves.

its one thing to claim to know why fat people are fat, its another to claim that size determines personhood.

From a purely physical standpoint, wouldn't someone overweight be more of a person?

Your jump is no less ridiculous. You think that because he claims it to be ok to discriminate against fat people, he doesn't have responsibility for his behavior? What sense does that make?


is it? what else did he mean when he denies the personhood of fat people and then says that they bring it on themselves?

its one thing to claim to know why fat people are fat, its another to claim that size determines personhood.

I'm still genuinely interested in how being fat causes you to lose personhood.

its another to claim that size determines personhood.

I think that the "fat people aren't people" statement is at best over dramatic and at worse idiotic. Now, granted, as a student of philosophy I could argue many ways about what "personhood" really means and conclude that fat people aren't such, but that'd be rather ridiculous.

The problem is that the world, America specifically, is becoming more and more overweight. Not only that, but they're beginning to make demands. The healthcare costs are astounding, as is their consumption of food. Add that to the fact that they take up two seats on an airline but think they should only pay for one, and it's disgusting in more ways than one.

The real culprit is not the overweight population, however, but the "it's ok to be fat" counterculture that tells little girls being a cow is ok because "not everyone can look like a model" or "barbie's unrealistic." Being fat is not ok. It's a miserable appearance, and not only that, but it's neither cost or health effective. Stll, our "culture of acceptance" tells all the fat kids out there that there's no reason to change, because they'll be loved for who they are, and that it's ok to be fat. Not only that, but so many claim that it's "not their fault" that they're fat, it's some mysterious disease or disposition. They do nothing, eat more, and ultimately grow up into fat adults who want more healthcare benefits.

This pathetic acceptance of what should not be accepted, and the moronic excuses for what can not be accepted is perhaps the most disgusting thing of all.

As you can see, I'm not here to "join the side" of the "fat people aren't people" train of thought. I merely agree with some of his other, less harped-on, points.

Amateur

Thank you, all I needed to know. The rest is superfluous.

From a purely physical standpoint, wouldn't someone overweight be more of a person?

Lol...I suppose so.

Also, the time-warping in this thread is out of control.

Imagine your university rugby team, but they get to choose who gets to join and they own a house where they can all live. Pretty similar deal.


That thought counts as incitement to petrol bomb alone...and I havent had to put up with that kind of gobshite in over 20 years......

Sorority Evictions Raise Issue of Looks and Bias (http://www.nytimes.com/2007/02/25/education/25sorority.html?ex=1330059600&en=d9623f20d02771fc&ei=5090&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss)

"Worried that a negative stereotype of the sorority was contributing to a decline in membership that had left its Greek-columned house here half empty, Delta Zeta’s national officers interviewed 35 DePauw members in November, quizzing them about their dedication to recruitment. They judged 23 of the women insufficiently committed and later told them to vacate the sorority house.

The 23 members included every woman who was overweight. They also included the only black, Korean and Vietnamese members. The dozen students allowed to stay were slender and popular with fraternity men — conventionally pretty women the sorority hoped could attract new recruits. Six of the 12 were so infuriated they quit."


jeebus. who thought this was a good idea?

You know, this is the absolute last thing that womyn need right now: a sorority deciding that so-called "overweight" womyn aren't good enough to be members. This certainly isn't helping womyn's equality.

Idiots.

Sounds like a few new pledges for the Sisters of Omega Mu next rush week!

"They're heeere... Nerds."

Who needs organizations, anyway? Fuck 'em, they aren't worth the stink of their own shit.

Idiots.

Likewise

Buh? You're confusing me. Bottle's post is both sarcastic and true. :confused:
Unless you're defending sororities from her characterization, but somehow I doubt that.

I'm referring to the 'if one accepts' part.

Not all sororities are full of vacuous fucktoys for frat boys either.

Why?

Because people didn't accept that this was indeed their purpose.

Who needs organizations, anyway? Fuck 'em, they aren't worth the stink of their own shit.

Are we fucking all organisations? I kind of like some organisations. I'd hate to do away with my dayhome organisation. Or my Student Organisation of Bitchy Left-Wing Lunatics (SOBLWL).

Not all sororities are full of vacuous fucktoys for frat boys either.

Wait, i think I've seen this movie (http://imdb.com/title/tt0279781/)....

Wait, i think I've seen this movie (http://imdb.com/title/tt0279781/)....

Smart ass.

Sorority Evictions Raise Issue of Looks and Bias (http://www.nytimes.com/2007/02/25/education/25sorority.html?ex=1330059600&en=d9623f20d02771fc&ei=5090&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss)

"Worried that a negative stereotype of the sorority was contributing to a decline in membership that had left its Greek-columned house here half empty, Delta Zeta’s national officers interviewed 35 DePauw members in November, quizzing them about their dedication to recruitment. They judged 23 of the women insufficiently committed and later told them to vacate the sorority house.

The 23 members included every woman who was overweight. They also included the only black, Korean and Vietnamese members. The dozen students allowed to stay were slender and popular with fraternity men — conventionally pretty women the sorority hoped could attract new recruits. Six of the 12 were so infuriated they quit."


jeebus. who thought this was a good idea?

Sounds like the perfect Aryan sorority where only ditzy spoiled anarexic white girls get in and fatties, the racially inferior and of course those damn jews get the door. (mad sarcasm)

Fat people are not people.

Surely they're more of a person than skinney people.

A few weeks ago I sat next to a guy who was maybe three ordinary people.

I'm still genuinely interested in how being fat causes you to lose personhood.

The Mindset's insistent dehumanization of the overweight sounds to me like s/he endured fat camps and diets for a long time before finally losing weight. Some people just can't stand reminders of what they used to be like and it turns into irrational hatred as seen here.

Are we fucking all organisations? I kind of like some organisations. I'd hate to do away with my dayhome organisation. Or my Student Organisation of Bitchy Left-Wing Lunatics (SOBLWL).

Meh. Organizations leave me nonplussed at best.

and your background in medicine and human biology is...what, exactly?

Rhetoric and Hatred count as backgrounds, right?

http://img361.imageshack.us/img361/1720/fatchicksmv8.jpg

I had an angry response all ready...and then I saw who was posting this. What the hell? Is this your actual position, Bottle?
Absolutely. I'll say it again. If one accepts that the primary function of a sorority is to provide fuckable females for frat boys, then what this "sisterhood" did is perfectly reasonable.

Personally, I think it's pathetic to run or belong to an organization that views female human beings as consumables for frat boys. I find it depressing that so many women and girls choose to participate in organizations that degrade them in this manner. It would be great if every sorority were about something more interesting. But, clearly, many sororities don't see themselves as anything beyond free-range ranches for coed meat. The sorority that is the subject of this thread quite clearly has decided that its purpose is to have hawt chicks (as defined by what pleases heteroboys), and they have adjusted their membership accordingly.

Then is it terrible to run a club whose main purpose is to have hawt guys (as defined by homo guys) and adjusting their clientele accordingly?

If people want to fuck, who are you to say what is terrible and what is not?

I think it's the sexual inequality that the issue - one sex is the commodity, the other is the purchaser.

Absolutely. I'll say it again. If one accepts that the primary function of a sorority is to provide fuckable females for frat boys, then what this "sisterhood" did is perfectly reasonable.

Personally, I think it's pathetic to run or belong to an organization that views female human beings as consumables for frat boys. I find it depressing that so many women and girls choose to participate in organizations that degrade them in this manner. It would be great if every sorority were about something more interesting. But, clearly, many sororities don't see themselves as anything beyond free-range ranches for coed meat. The sorority that is the subject of this thread quite clearly has decided that its purpose is to have hawt chicks (as defined by what pleases heteroboys), and they have adjusted their membership accordingly.

Then is it terrible to run a club whose main purpose is to have hawt guys (as defined by homo guys) and adjusting their clientele accordingly?

If people want to fuck, who are you to say what is terrible and what is not?

Then is it terrible to run a club whose main purpose is to have hawt guys (as defined by homo guys) and adjusting their clientele accordingly?

I happen to think it is pathetic to base your entire social network on being fuckable objects for other people. That's just me.


If people want to fuck, who are you to say what is terrible and what is not?
Are you serious?

Who am I to say? Why, I'm a thinking human person who has actual opinions! Much like many other people, I would imagine.

People want to do lots of things that are silly, boring, mean, or otherwise shitty. The fact that people want to do something doesn't automatically exempt that something from critical evaluation.

Yes, people want to fuck. Lots of people want to fuck sex-bot women who are devalued to the point where their only purpose in life is to look hawt and get screwed, and they don't especially care about the wellbeing or happiness or humanity of the sex-bots in question. The fact that there are people who want to treat women like meat does not in any way require that I pretend to think it's cool or okay. I think it's pathetic. I say so.

Do I try to legally ban people from being assholes? Nope. But I do point out when they're acting like assholes. And you'd be surprised how many of them flip the fuck out at the very suggestion that maybe it's not entirely nice to treat other human beings as subhuman jizz receptacles. As long as there are people who get pissed off by that suggestion, I will have reason to continue pointing it out. :D

I think it's the sexual inequality that the issue - one sex is the commodity, the other is the purchaser.
It's not even about "sex inequality." It's about the practice of devaluing one class of human beings and reducing them to objects for consumption by other human beings. It would be equally shitty no matter which class were being treated this way.

Then is it terrible to run a club whose main purpose is to have hawt guys (as defined by homo guys) and adjusting their clientele accordingly?

If people want to fuck, who are you to say what is terrible and what is not?

what men's clubs are you referring to?

yes, such a club, whatever club that might be, whose purpose is to pimp men to whomever would be "terrible".

what men's clubs are you referring to?

yes, such a club, whatever club that might be, whose purpose is to pimp men to whomever would be "terrible".

There are quite a few gay men's clubs I've been to that seem to be just that.

Not that you'll pay for anything other than the cover charge.

There are quite a few gay men's clubs I've been to that seem to be just that.

Not that you'll pay for anything other than the cover charge.

if your being "pimped" to each other, thats a kind of dating service--like minded people having a place to find each other. if you pay to join a club that exists to offer a pool of likely partners to some outside group, thats kinda pathetic. if youre going to be treated like a whore, shouldnt you be paid?

if you are being brought into a club on the false pretense that it is a kind of mutual aid society where like minded people build up a network of contacts for their future careers but it turns out to be a dating service for college boys and the only important qualification really was your looks and willingness to "party", you should be pissed.

if your being "pimped" to each other, thats a kind of dating service--like minded people having a place to find each other. if you pay to join a club that exists to offer a pool of likely partners to some outside group, thats kinda pathetic. if youre going to be treated like a whore, shouldnt you be paid?

if you are being brought into a club on the false pretense that it is a kind of mutual aid society where like minded people build up a network of contacts for their future careers but it turns out to be a dating service for college boys and the only important qualification really was your looks and willingness to "party", you should be pissed.

Try going here.

DIK Bar

Dupont
1637 17th Street, NW Washington, DC 20009

If you're male, and look like an adult, you're going to get all the sex you can handle from other men. If you're in a hurry, they'll do you in the restroom.

If you're male, and look like an adult, you're going to get all the sex you can handle from other men. If you're in a hurry, they'll do you in the restroom.
Sounds like a good reason to visit the US. :p

Try going here.

DIK Bar

Dupont
1637 17th Street, NW Washington, DC 20009

If you're male, and look like an adult, you're going to get all the sex you can handle from other men. If you're in a hurry, they'll do you in the restroom.

what the fuck does that have to do with college sororities?

you ARE deep kimchi after all arent you?

what the fuck does that have to do with college sororities?

you ARE deep kimchi after all arent you?

No, I'm not.

If a college sorority (this one apparently), is a place where heteros go to get cheap, easy sex, then what's the problem?

I mean, gays have places to go get cheap, easy sex (I posted one), and you don't see front pages stories in the news about how bad that is that gays have cheap, anonymous sex, do you?

Absolutely. I'll say it again. If one accepts that the primary function of a sorority is to provide fuckable females for frat boys, then what this "sisterhood" did is perfectly reasonable.

Personally, I think it's pathetic to run or belong to an organization that views female human beings as consumables for frat boys. I find it depressing that so many women and girls choose to participate in organizations that degrade them in this manner. It would be great if every sorority were about something more interesting. But, clearly, many sororities don't see themselves as anything beyond free-range ranches for coed meat. The sorority that is the subject of this thread quite clearly has decided that its purpose is to have hawt chicks (as defined by what pleases heteroboys), and they have adjusted their membership accordingly.

Can I ask - what is your personal experience of Sororities and Fraternities?

From what source of experience do you base your opinion of them?

While the title of the article made grim reading, the explination given seemed pretty reasonable - that that particular sorority had declining membership, and that the members of the chapter all voted to close the sorority and continue living there to reopen it again at some undefined later date. The school gave no guarentee the sorority would be able to reopen, and the national head came and interviewed the girls - all the girls were asked about their motivation and willingness to engage in recruitment and promotion of the sorority and all those who did not want to be involved in this rather major facet of the running of the sorority were asked to go alum and find accomodation elsewhere. Given that they got rid of about two thirds of the members there are two possibilities for all the overweight girls being asked to leave - one is that two thirds of the membership were overweight, the other is that the overweight girls were amoung other girls who did have the 'right' image but were also uninterested in the sorority. Personally I suspect it is option 2.

Incidently - given that in colleges with a high 'Greek' population an 'independant' guy will normally have a much harder time hooking up than an 'independant' girl, and that it will be even harder for him to hook up with a sorority girl than it would be for an independant girl to hook up with a frat boy - could you not draw from that that Fraternities exist for the purpose of providing Sorority Girls with fuckable boys?

Not wanting to read through 8 pages; did anybody mention that that particular house also had issues with not wanting too many "coloreds" in it?

They did mess up. They should have tossed all of them and said we are starting over.....

No, I'm not.

If a college sorority (this one apparently), is a place where heteros go to get cheap, easy sex, then what's the problem?

I mean, gays have places to go get cheap, easy sex (I posted one), and you don't see front pages stories in the news about how bad that is that gays have cheap, anonymous sex, do you?

youre being a little dense. look at the topic of the thread.

the problem is not like minded people hooking up. that sort of thing is common in clubs and club systems of all sorts. im sure that when the chess club has a statewide tournament the players are hitting on each other whenever they arent at the tables.

do sororities only exist as a dating service? if so, who is their clientelle? if they kick out their less than perfect members, they arent serving their membership are they? its no benefit to susie that janie is hot. its not a lesbian club. a hot girl delta zeta is only important to the fraternities that might want to date them.

that makes the sorority an unpaid brothel instead of the mutual aid society that it should be. that makes any girl willing to participate in a group like that pathetic.

Not wanting to read through 8 pages; did anybody mention that that particular house also had issues with not wanting too many "coloreds" in it?

They did mess up. They should have tossed all of them and said we are starting over.....

If your read down the first page a little you would have seen this statement from the Sororities National President:

After years of struggling to recruit, Delta Zeta DePauw members voted in August to close the chapter at the end of the 2006-2007 school year. The women's majority vote meant that they could live in the house and be relieved of active membership duties, including the intense work of recruiting on a daily basis. The intent was for Delta Zeta to close and reorganize to return at a later date.

On September 12th the request for reorganization was denied by the University. The University indicated that Delta Zeta, which has been on the DePauw campus for 98 years, would not be guaranteed a return. University officials asked Delta Zeta to undertake a membership review.

Delta Zeta members, who could support the national plan to actively recruit, were asked to remain active. Other members, who no longer wanted to engage in day-to-day recruiting, became alumnae members of the Sorority.

The sole basis of the decision and the membership review was the women's commitment to actively recruit.
The sorority had already voted to close down, the president interviewed them all, those who were interested in keeping it going were asked to stay and those who were not were asked to do what they themselves had already decided to do and go alum.

youre being a little dense. look at the topic of the thread.

the problem is not like minded people hooking up. that sort of thing is common in clubs and club systems of all sorts. im sure that when the chess club has a statewide tournament the players are hitting on each other whenever they arent at the tables.

do sororities only exist as a dating service? if so, who is their clientelle? if they kick out their less than perfect members, they arent serving their membership are they? its no benefit to susie that janie is hot. its not a lesbian club. a hot girl delta zeta is only important to the fraternities that might want to date them.

that makes the sorority an unpaid brothel instead of the mutual aid society that it should be. that makes any girl willing to participate in a group like that pathetic.

What is your personal experience of sororities and on what evidence do you base your opinion of them?

Can I ask - what is your personal experience of Sororities and Fraternities?

From what source of experience do you base your opinion of them?

I was fortunate to go to a school where the frats and sororities were pretty chill. They were off-campus, and did have some of the classic elements of Greek life (they were known for lots of drunken parties), but they also were involved in a lot of cool campus and community activities. One of my best college friends was a Kappa Sig brother.


While the title of the article made grim reading, the explination given seemed pretty reasonable - that that particular sorority had declining membership, and that the members of the chapter all voted to close the sorority and continue living there to reopen it again at some undefined later date. The school gave no guarentee the sorority would be able to reopen, and the national head came and interviewed the girls - all the girls were asked about their motivation and willingness to engage in recruitment and promotion of the sorority and all those who did not want to be involved in this rather major facet of the running of the sorority were asked to go alum and find accomodation elsewhere. Given that they got rid of about two thirds of the members there are two possibilities for all the overweight girls being asked to leave - one is that two thirds of the membership were overweight, the other is that the overweight girls were amoung other girls who did have the 'right' image but were also uninterested in the sorority. Personally I suspect it is option 2.

Given the motivated and enthusiastic activism that many of the expelled members have shown since this purge, I'd say your suspicion is incorrect. These are not women who are lazy or unmotivated, nor are they uninterested in their sorority. Furthermore, of the 12 girls who were deemed white enough and pretty enough to remain in the sisterhood, 6 quit because they refused to be party to what they were seeing. Those are 6 young women who were actually there, and actually knew the other sisters, so I'm inclined to give some weight to their judgment of what happened.


Incidently - given that in colleges with a high 'Greek' population an 'independant' guy will normally have a much harder time hooking up than an 'independant' girl, and that it will be even harder for him to hook up with a sorority girl than it would be for an independant girl to hook up with a frat boy - could you not draw from that that Fraternities exist for the purpose of providing Sorority Girls with fuckable boys?
No. For the simple reason that if you select a random girl and a random guy from the population, it is statistically likely that the girl will have a much easier time finding male sex partners than the guy will have finding female sex partners. There are many reasons for this, most of which end up being rooted in the same sexism that drives the women-as-meat concept.

What is your personal experience of sororities and on what evidence do you base your opinion of them?

i feel that you think that i am dissing all sororities. i am not.

i am basing my opinion on an organization so concerned about "image" that they all but shut down a chapter by removing the minorities and "overweight" girls. my son told me he saw pictures of these removed girls and that they werent below average in looks or particularly above average in size.

im not saying that all sororities are defacto brothels. im saying that THIS one has some explaining to do.

No, I'm not.

If a college sorority (this one apparently), is a place where heteros go to get cheap, easy sex, then what's the problem?

I mean, gays have places to go get cheap, easy sex (I posted one), and you don't see front pages stories in the news about how bad that is that gays have cheap, anonymous sex, do you?
And that's what I said with my initial post.

IF one accepts that the role of a sorority is to provide fuckable females for frat boys, then there's nothing remotely unreasonable about a sorority expelling members who are insufficiently fuckable.

Where you run into trouble is when some of the sisters argue that perhaps their sorority should be about something beyond this.

i feel that you think that i am dissing all sororities. i am not.

i am basing my opinion on an organization so concerned about "image" that they all but shut down a chapter by removing the minorities and "overweight" girls. my son told me he saw pictures of these removed girls and that they werent below average in looks or particularly above average in size.

im not saying that all sororities are defacto brothels. im saying that THIS one has some explaining to do.

They did not remove the girls.

The girls had already voted to go alum.
The nationals interviewed them all.
Those who wanted to keep the sorority going were asked to stay.
Those who did not, were not asked to stay. They were left to go alum as they themselves had already decided to.
I doubt that two thirds of the girls were overweight - so it would seem some of the less motivated thinner girls were also allowed to go alum as they had already decided to.

Where you run into trouble is when some of the sisters argue that perhaps their sorority should be about something beyond this.

Considering that the sorority in question was about to be closed down because it was barely making it, it seems that most sororities are for that purpose, regardless of what they say.

Or otherwise, that sorority would have been popular enough to succeed.

Considering that the sorority in question was about to be closed down because it was barely making it, it seems that most sororities are for that purpose, regardless of what they say.

Or otherwise, that sorority would have been popular enough to succeed.
I do not argue with this. I think a great many people, including the members of a lot of sororities, see this as their first (if not only) purpose.

I don't happen to think it's cool, but until I have completed my Doomsday Device I will not be able to enforce my nefarious will upon the whole of human civilization.

I do not argue with this. I think a great many people, including the members of a lot of sororities, see this as their first (if not only) purpose.

What is your personal experience of Sororities?

What is your personal experience of Sororities?

I fucked a lot of sorority girls when I was in college. Satisfied? Most of them drank far more than most men I've ever met.

I also remember the sorority girl who, in front of a crowd of her cheering sisters (and men) fucked herself silly with a beer bottle on the front lawn of her sorority house.

They did not remove the girls.

The girls had already voted to go alum.
The nationals interviewed them all.
Those who wanted to keep the sorority going were asked to stay.
Those who did not, were not asked to stay. They were left to go alum as they themselves had already decided to.
I doubt that two thirds of the girls were overweight - so it would seem some of the less motivated thinner girls were also allowed to go alum as they had already decided to.

The original article didn't say that, so I'm wondering where it's come from. Is that a new spin or something? The original article said that some of the members were told by nationals that they were going alum, not that they'd volunteered.

The original article didn't say that, so I'm wondering where it's come from. Is that a new spin or something? The original article said that some of the members were told by nationals that they were going alum, not that they'd volunteered.

On the first page of this thread one of the posters provided a statement from the sorority, which none of the girls involved seem to have denied, that stated that in view of declining membership girls decided to have a vote and they voted to all go alum with the view of re-opening the sorority at a later date.

The national head sent someone to interview them all and those who were keen on continuing the sorority were asked to stay and those who were not were allowed to do as they had previously voted themselves and go alum.

The only difference was that in the first vote the girls would all contiue living in the sorority house while now that it is not going inactive the girls who wanted to go alum are being asked to find accomodation elsewhere. This is standard in Frats and Sororities where students who go alum before graduation can no longer wear their Greek colours, attend certain events or live in the Frat/Sorority house.

I'm wondering why Shx isn't commenting about her sorority experience. I mean, in my day, if you went to any sorority except Phi Mu, you were going to get laid by great looking girls who wanted sex and wanted to drink.

Both at University of Virginia AND University of North Carolina.

I'm wondering why Shx isn't commenting about her sorority experience. I mean, in my day, if you went to any sorority except Phi Mu, you were going to get laid by great looking girls who wanted sex and wanted to drink.

Both at University of Virginia AND University of North Carolina.

I'm a guy dude.

I just know a lot of 'Greek' people, male and female and the sex thing with sororities/frats seems no more excessive than that amoung the general college/university population. Unless your experience is based on porn movies that it.

At my university the guys rugby members had a lot of sex with the girls rugby team. The rowing guys and rowing girls got it on a lot. The swim club had a LOT of sex together. The medic guys and medic girls went out a lot. Does ANYONE think that any of the female groups in these organisations exist to provide sex objects to guys? No? So why do people think sororities do the same? Porno Fantasy anyone? Tacky teen movies?

I'm a guy dude.

I just know a lot of 'Greek' people, male and female and the sex thing with sororities/frats seems no more excessive than that amoung the general college/university population. Unless your experience is based on porn movies that it.

You really think that the problem with this is about college kids having sex? Gimme a break.


At my university the guys rugby members had a lot of sex with the girls rugby team. The rowing guys and rowing girls got it on a lot. The swim club had a LOT of sex together. The medic guys and medic girls went out a lot. Does ANYONE think that any of the female groups in these organisations exist to provide sex objects to guys? No? So why do people think sororities do the same? Porno Fantasy anyone? Tacky teen movies?
Did the women's rowing team expel all members who weren't hot enough to satisfy the male rowing team? Did the rugby team get rid of capable, talented players because they weren't sexy enough?

Seriously, this isn't about college kids hooking up. I have no problem with people having sex.

The problem, in this case, is a bunch of sorority girls were kicked out of their club because they weren't sufficiently fuckable. Are you really unable to see how this is different from kids choosing to hook up?

Even if you want to assume that sorority girls and frat boys like to use their Greek clubs as hook-up venues (which I'm willing to accept for the sake of argument), then it still fails this test because obviously the hook-up desires of the girls were less important than the fact that they weren't deemed hawt enough to belong. That's not about choosing to hook up, that's about being kicked out of your "sisterhood" because you failed to conform to the Barbie model.

Did the women's rowing team expel all members who weren't hot enough to satisfy the male rowing team? Did the rugby team get rid of capable, talented players because they weren't sexy enough?
I pointed this out as there seems to be a stereotype about sororities being full of nymphomaniacs - particulary with the person I was replying to, when identical behavior exists in any groups of males and females with similar social interests.

I did not see if you said - what is your personal experience of Fraternities and Sororities?


The problem, in this case, is a bunch of sorority girls were kicked out of their club because they weren't sufficiently fuckable. Are you really unable to see how this is different from kids choosing to hook up?

Even if you want to assume that sorority girls and frat boys like to use their Greek clubs as hook-up venues (which I'm willing to accept for the sake of argument), then it still fails this test because obviously the hook-up desires of the girls were less important than the fact that they weren't deemed hawt enough to belong. That's not about choosing to hook up, that's about being kicked out of your "sisterhood" because you failed to conform to the Barbie model.
Did you miss this the last time I brought it up for you - or has it been discredited and I just missed the post - but this is the statement from the sorority - posted on the front page of this thread:

After years of struggling to recruit, Delta Zeta DePauw members voted in August to close the chapter at the end of the 2006-2007 school year. The women's majority vote meant that they could live in the house and be relieved of active membership duties, including the intense work of recruiting on a daily basis. The intent was for Delta Zeta to close and reorganize to return at a later date.

On September 12th the request for reorganization was denied by the University. The University indicated that Delta Zeta, which has been on the DePauw campus for 98 years, would not be guaranteed a return. University officials asked Delta Zeta to undertake a membership review.

Delta Zeta members, who could support the national plan to actively recruit, were asked to remain active. Other members, who no longer wanted to engage in day-to-day recruiting, became alumnae members of the Sorority.

The sole basis of the decision and the membership review was the women's commitment to actively recruit.
In summary:
The girls had already voted to all go alum and reopen the sorority at some later date.
The school did not guarentee them that they could do this.
The school asked them to conduct a membership review.
The national group came and interviewed them all about their commitment to recruitment.
All those motivated to keep it going were asked not to go alum.
All those who did not want to be involved were allowed to go alum as they had themselves already chosen.
In keeping with general Frat/Sorority rules Alum members are not allowed to live in Frat/Sorority dorms and so were asked to leave. This happens to ANYONE who goes Alum - it is not uncommon for 'Greeks' to go Alum in their final year and when they do they have to move out of their 'Greek' dorms.

Easy Dee-Zees, what a surprise.

Thank god OSU ain't a greek school. The majority here realize that most greek stuff is seventeen different types of lame.

I agree, we do have a few chapters but for the life of me after 4 degrees here I could not name them

We all have more important shit to do then waste time going Greek

I pointed this out as there seems to be a stereotype about sororities being full of nymphomaniacs - particulary with the person I was replying to, when identical behavior exists in any groups of males and females with similar social interests.

Fair enough.

I did not see if you said - what is your personal experience of Fraternities and Sororities?

Feel free to flip back a couple of pages and find out. :D


In summary:
The girls had already voted to all go alum and reopen the sorority at some later date.
The school did not guarentee them that they could do this.
The school asked them to conduct a membership review.
The national group came and interviewed them all about their commitment to recruitment.
All those motivated to keep it going were asked not to go alum.
All those who did not want to be involved were allowed to go alum as they had themselves already chosen.
In keeping with general Frat/Sorority rules Alum members are not allowed to live in Frat/Sorority dorms and so were asked to leave. This happens to ANYONE who goes Alum - it is not uncommon for 'Greeks' to go Alum in their final year and when they do they have to move out of their 'Greek' dorms.
The reactions of 6 out of the 12 girls who were allowed to remain in the sorority are not consistent with the idea that this was a totally reasonable and accepted decision. Half of the "motivated" sisters quit in protest after the purge.

The reactions of 6 out of the 12 girls who were allowed to remain in the sorority are not consistent with the idea that this was a totally reasonable and accepted decision. Half of the "motivated" sisters quit in protest after the purge.
It looks more like they quit because the others were asked to leave the house when they went alum.

The original vote would have seen them all go alum but continue living there, when they decided not to close the sorority the nationals asked all the girls who were not active to leave the accomodation as they were now alums of a still active sorority. It seems that this is what drove the others to quit.

If anyone from any frat or sorority goes alum they normally can't live in the greek accomodation. That is very common across the board.

On the first page of this thread one of the posters provided a statement from the sorority, which none of the girls involved seem to have denied, that stated that in view of declining membership girls decided to have a vote and they voted to all go alum with the view of re-opening the sorority at a later date.

The national head sent someone to interview them all and those who were keen on continuing the sorority were asked to stay and those who were not were allowed to do as they had previously voted themselves and go alum.

The only difference was that in the first vote the girls would all contiue living in the sorority house while now that it is not going inactive the girls who wanted to go alum are being asked to find accomodation elsewhere. This is standard in Frats and Sororities where students who go alum before graduation can no longer wear their Greek colours, attend certain events or live in the Frat/Sorority house.I was talking about the first article on the story, from the New York Times, which predates the national chapter's statement. The national's statement seems like nothing more than ass-covering to me, which is what you'd expect from a brand facing this sort of shitstorm.