NationStates Jolt Archive

Should the train/tram service be retendered to connex or should it be allowed to go back into the state government's hands?

http://www.theage.com.au/news/national/trams-trains-likely-to-stay-private/2007/02/25/1172338469217.html

Neither. Switch to buses (yes, one can have ecofriendly buses).

And have them run by Connex and other private parties.

I admit the bus service isn't half bad (though all my routes only use Dyson buses).

However the main problem is that if you decided to tear up tram/train lines and replace them with buses you wouldn't get that much more efficiency.

Tram: Trams (usually) provide a stable service with not my time overruns. It helps reduce congestion in the main parts of the city by a lot, provides a unique tourist attraction and safe as well as energy efficient (when compared to the fleet of cars that would be needed).

Trains: Trains are even more important. They act as large arterial transports of people, not only reducing time needed to get to a place (when compared to a bus) but is also energy efficient, especially when considering trans-state train lines and various heavy duty lines for dock-city transport.

Main problem with buses is that they are not as efficient. However they do provide the role of extending train/tram reach. There is an organised network of buses that are linked at hubs and whilst overlapping, which seems to happen a fair amount but it is nowhere near as bad as it could be, with trams helping to link major areas in urban areas and trains providing the large scale transport.

However the cost of it would more than likely be better when it was wholly government run. The reason why it the system was worse was because there was not enough money put into it (as it was easy to draw it off for other projects) and, most importantly, it provides an easy way for a government to reduce any blame levelled at it by saying it is the private company's fault.

Connex do trains badly. They're not too bad at buses though, they do the buses in this part of Sydney, and they're actually quite good - nearly as good in fact as Sydney Buses (it's hard to beat them, though). I forsee them taking over a lot of the private bus companies if they're able to keep this up.

They link up with the rail corridor which is good.

I just wish we didn't have two different bus companies within the council area. It'd make things a whole lot easier. At least the hub's at the logical place.

Melbourne, though, did one very wise thing - they've maintained most of their rail lines, and pretty much all of the tram lines. Sydney should have (it actually had a larger network at one point, believe it or not, and was apparently one of the largest in the world.

To this day, many bus routes still follow the old tram routes - that's how well planned they were!

Trams would make things alot easier in our inner city area (to see 15 buses in a line is NOT uncommon...)

Melbourne isn't that much smaller than Sydney population wise, and the buses are a substantial part of the problem here. (OK, the cross-city tunnel has a lot to do with the current gridlock in the CBD, but still...)

Neither. Switch to buses (yes, one can have ecofriendly buses).

And have them run by Connex and other private parties.

Why scrap the trams & trains?

Buses could simply not carry the volume of passengers that the trains do, and journey times would be much longer.

The tram system in Melbourne, particularly the inner areas, is excellent. Apart from being an iconic part of our city, they transport a great number of people, very efficiently. The tram system is run by Yarra Trams (a division of a French company, the name of which excapes me) not by Connex, and they actually do it pretty well.

The government should definitely take the train system back from Connex. Connex are doing an appalling job of it (purchasing new rolling stock that can only run on certain lines, the mysterious, and as yet unresolved, problem with the Siemens trains' brakes, etc) and getting paid a great deal of money to do so.

I'm not so sure about the trams though. From a political standpoint, I think the government should run all over the public transport, but Yarra Trams seems to be doing a decent job of it.

I think the worst thing about Melbourne's public transport is the ticketing system. The machines need to be totally revamped, so you can buy a greater range of tickets, and to be able to use notes in the machines on the trams.

Why scrap the trams & trains?

Buses could simply not carry the volume of passengers that the trains do, and journey times would be much longer.

Exactly. More efficient, not much more hassel and make Melbourne a much more livable city since the congestion is nowhere as bad as it could be.

The tram system in Melbourne, particularly the inner areas, is excellent. Apart from being an iconic part of our city, they transport a great number of people, very efficiently. The tram system is run by Yarra Trams (a division of a French company, the name of which excapes me) not by Connex, and they actually do it pretty well.

Yes the tram service is very nice, I use it to get to uni (after using a bus).

[QUOTE=Boonytopia;12377716]The government should definitely take the train system back from Connex. Connex are doing an appalling job of it (purchasing new rolling stock that can only run on certain lines, the mysterious, and as yet unresolved, problem with the Siemens trains' brakes, etc) and getting paid a great deal of money to do so.

That was very odd, along with their inability to reduce their costs instead of pushing to raise fares. I think they are trying to make the trains heavier so that the wheels get more grip

I'm not so sure about the trams though. From a political standpoint, I think the government should run all over the public transport, but Yarra Trams seems to be doing a decent job of it.

It can always be run they it currently is, just with a series of goals that have to be achieved (service, not necessarily customer goals) or the state takes back control. Best thing (imo) would be for victoria to own the public transport and only have the private people as consulting agency or for managing rather than the pseudo-ownership they have.

Also get rid of the PPP (private-public-partnership) policy.

I think the worst thing about Melbourne's public transport is the ticketing system. The machines need to be totally revamped, so you can buy a greater range of tickets, and to be able to use notes in the machines on the trams.

It'd still only have to be small notes (like 5 or 10 AUD, equivalent to about 3.80 or 7.60 USD). The trams also need more inspectors if they were really serious about fare evasion (I guess they get enough cash to not go around the bend about fare evasion).

The range of tickets aren't half bad as they stand, enough variety for most occasions. It would be nice to be able to get the 2hrx10 or Dailyx10, but that leads to the amount of cash they hold in one machine problem.

I'd say the worst thing about the public transport system is that there is not enough security on non premium stations and bus/tram stops

I just wish we didn't have two different bus companies within the council area. It'd make things a whole lot easier. At least the hub's at the logical place.

Which is the point, have the hubs in logical areas.

Melbourne, though, did one very wise thing - they've maintained most of their rail lines, and pretty much all of the tram lines. Sydney should have (it actually had a larger network at one point, believe it or not, and was apparently one of the largest in the world.

Trams would make things alot easier in our inner city area (to see 15 buses in a line is NOT uncommon...)

It definately would have helped with Sydney's greater population density.

Melbourne isn't that much smaller than Sydney population wise, and the buses are a substantial part of the problem here. (OK, the cross-city tunnel has a lot to do with the current gridlock in the CBD, but still...)

Do you have tollways in Sydney? Our g'ment had the brilliant idea to close off side roads so people were more likely to use a tollway.

It can always be run they it currently is, just with a series of goals that have to be achieved (service, not necessarily customer goals) or the state takes back control. Best thing (imo) would be for victoria to own the public transport and only have the private people as consulting agency or for managing rather than the pseudo-ownership they have.

Also get rid of the PPP (private-public-partnership) policy.

My preference would be for the state government to run the whole lot of it. It just makes sense to me to have one single body in control of Melbourne's public transport network.

I agree about the PPP. It's just a way for the goverment to cop out of their responsibility, while they still end up funding all of it anyway. I'm also concerned about the secrecy of the deals & what may be contained in some of the clauses.

It'd still only have to be small notes (like 5 or 10 AUD, equivalent to about 3.80 or 7.60 USD). The trams also need more inspectors if they were really serious about fare evasion (I guess they get enough cash to not go around the bend about fare evasion).

The range of tickets aren't half bad as they stand, enough variety for most occasions. It would be nice to be able to get the 2hrx10 or Dailyx10, but that leads to the amount of cash they hold in one machine problem.

I'd say the worst thing about the public transport system is that there is not enough security on non premium stations and bus/tram stops

I'd have the machines on the trams accept up to $20 notes, but $5 & $10 would be good for a start. If you want a Daily Zone 1 ticket, it's $6.30, but often I don't have that much in coins.

The machines (there are no people) at my station don't sell Sunday Saver tickets, but the nearby shop that sells Metcards isn't open on Sundays (nor is it open very late). :rolleyes:

The machines won't give more than $10 change, so what happens if you only have a $20 on you? As I said, my station is not staffed. If the stupid machines would allow you to buy multiple tickets in the one transaction, the problem would be solved. I could buy two Daily tickets with my $20 & the change returned would be under the $10 threshold.

I usually buy a Zone 1 Weekly ticket, to get to work, but I also travel to Zone 2 once a week to go to Box Hill. I don't buy a Zone 1&2 ticket, because I have already purchased the Zone 1 portion, but you can't buy a solely Zone 2 ticket if you're in Zone 1. I used to run into problems leaving the station at Box Hill, so I bought some Zone 2, 2 Hour tickets to get around it. However, you can't validate Zone 2 tickets in Zone 1, so I still run into problems with ticket inspectors at Box Hill, because I can't validate my Zone 2 ticket until I leave Box Hill station. Then they have a go at me for not having a valid ticket, blah, blah, blah, despite my attempts to comply. Just stupid. :rolleyes:


Melburnians are preoccupied with punctuality and need to realise the system had to account for human factors such as the time it took some people to get off and on trains.

This is a disgraceful thing for the minister to say. We have every right to expect a punctual service. We’re paying for it. We rely on it to get to work, school, etc. What’s the point of running the services if they’re not intended to be punctual. They may as well say “We intend to run 16 services today, some of them may not run, we’re not really sure. Also, we don’t know what time they’ll be going, but you should probably wait at your station in the hope that they’re there at some stage”. :rolleyes:

If trains are taking longer to load & unload, they should bloody well factor into their timetables! If they know that it’s an issue, they should take steps to resolve it, not make stupid excuses for it! :mad:

NEVER!

I shall passionately oppose any kind of transport reform in Australia! For as long as blood soars through my veins, you shall know no improved commuters' network!!!

NEVER!

I shall passionately oppose any kind of transport reform in Australia! For as long as blood soars through my veins, you shall know no improved commuters' network!!!

That's it then, we're doomed! :p

Why scrap the trams & trains?

Buses could simply not carry the volume of passengers that the trains do, and journey times would be much longer.

Exactly. It already takes me around an hour to get into the city by train. I can expect that to double if we get rid of them and have to catch buses.

The tram and bus system is fine as it is (well, i'd like to see more night bus services in my area, but otherwise no complaints). The trains need improvement, since I can never truly rely upon them to be on time...but they are indispensable. It would be nice to see services run a bit later too. I've been caught out so many times because I couldn't make it to a station by midnight, but I can't have everything I suppose.


I'd say the worst thing about the public transport system is that there is not enough security on non premium stations and bus/tram stops

Yes, that's a pretty major problem. Even at staffed stations, bashings and robberies don't seem to be treated as anything out of the ordinary. I used to have to wait at Huntingdale station for half an hour almost every weeknight...not fun.

My preference would be for the state government to run the whole lot of it. It just makes sense to me to have one single body in control of Melbourne's public transport network.

I agree. At the very least services that indirectly aid the capability of Victoria should be upheld as a public service. Now if only the politically charged atmosphere could be removed from it.......

I agree about the PPP. It's just a way for the goverment to cop out of their responsibility, while they still end up funding all of it anyway. I'm also concerned about the secrecy of the deals & what may be contained in some of the clauses.

Not only cop out but promise big. Allows them to not be so spendthrift whilst also seemingly keeping the economy on track. Problem is that it can be as much as twice as expensive as what it would normally be whilst also forcing massive bailouts for the company to save political face or to repay debts.

I'd like all negotiations to be recorded in case of a court order to release them or 5 years after the event has occurred

The machines (there are no people) at my station don't sell Sunday Saver tickets, but the nearby shop that sells Metcards isn't open on Sundays (nor is it open very late). :rolleyes:

I always wondered what the point was for having different types of machines.
Really newsagents shouldn't have to sell them, they should all be available at train station, bus, tram.

The machines won't give more than $10 change, so what happens if you only have a $20 on you? As I said, my station is not staffed. If the stupid machines would allow you to buy multiple tickets in the one transaction, the problem would be solved. I could buy two Daily tickets with my $20 & the change returned would be under the $10 threshold.

I meant you could only use $5/$10 notes on the current coin only machines. However, now that I think about it, how about a credit receipt (just an idea) if you put in more than it should return (say over $20 change instead gets returned as $20 plus the extra as a receipt)?

Being able to select amount of tickets would be cool.

I usually buy a Zone 1 Weekly ticket, to get to work, but I also travel to Zone 2 once a week to go to Box Hill. I don't buy a Zone 1&2 ticket, because I have already purchased the Zone 1 portion, but you can't buy a solely Zone 2 ticket if you're in Zone 1. I used to run into problems leaving the station at Box Hill, so I bought some Zone 2, 2 Hour tickets to get around it. However, you can't validate Zone 2 tickets in Zone 1*Snippity*

One of the top priorities for the system when/if it is controlled by the state would be to finally abolish the zoning of the city. It only acts as a price gouge anyway.

This is a disgraceful thing for the minister to say. We have every right to expect a punctual service. We’re paying for it. We rely on it to get to work, school, etc. What’s the point of running the services if they’re not intended to be punctual. They may as well say “We intend to run 16 services today, some of them may not run, we’re not really sure. Also, we don’t know what time they’ll be going, but you should probably wait at your station in the hope that they’re there at some stage”. :rolleyes: [/QUOTE]

I know, it is all a bit ridiculous. We could always suggest that we don't need to be punctual for work, or for paying taxes, etc. just to show we don't need to be on time for an economy to work. Bloody politicians.

If trains are taking longer to load & unload, they should bloody well factor into their timetables! If they know that it’s an issue, they should take steps to resolve it, not make stupid excuses for it! :mad:

I'd like a link up online saying where the bus/tram/train is and projected time until it arrives at X (I think a similar system is being put in place for the trams). Part of the problem is they don't want to admit it.

NEVER!
I shall passionately oppose any kind of transport reform in Australia! For as long as blood soars through my veins, you shall know no improved commuters' network!!!

You should run for election, you'd be a sure fire win :D ...... well, until they find out that you were joking and you actually like being to places on time.

The tram and bus system is fine as it is (well, i'd like to see more night bus services in my area, but otherwise no complaints). The trains need improvement, since I can never truly rely upon them to be on time...but they are indispensable. It would be nice to see services run a bit later too. I've been caught out so many times because I couldn't make it to a station by midnight, but I can't have everything I suppose.

I'd like a 24/7 model, even if it meant it was only a skeleton shift, if it was once every 1/2 hour then after 12 it is once an hour, after 3 it is once every 2 hours.

The real problem is making sure security is about 24/7. The benefits of a 24/7 public transport system would be enormous though, it would definately give a large competitive advantage to Melbourne. I keep on forgetting rural vicotria though....

Yes, that's a pretty major problem. Even at staffed stations, bashings and robberies don't seem to be treated as anything out of the ordinary. I used to have to wait at Huntingdale station for half an hour almost every weeknight...not fun.
The tram and bus system is fine as it is (well, i'd like to see more night bus services in my area, but otherwise no complaints). The trains need improvement, since I can never truly rely upon them to be on time...but they are indispensable. It would be nice to see services run a bit later too. I've been caught out so many times because I couldn't make it to a station by midnight, but I can't have everything I suppose.

I'd like a 24/7 model, even if it meant it was only a skeleton shift, if it was once every 1/2 hour then after 12 it is once an hour, after 3 it is once every 2 hours.

The real problem is making sure security is about 24/7. The benefits of a 24/7 public transport system would be enormous though, it would definately give a large competitive advantage to Melbourne. I keep on forgetting rural vicotria though....

Yes, that's a pretty major problem. Even at staffed stations, bashings and robberies don't seem to be treated as anything out of the ordinary. I used to have to wait at Huntingdale station for half an hour almost every weeknight...not fun.

That is because they are paid only to stop T3H Eb1L PH4R3Z 3\/4D4Z!!11!1!

Only if teir driven by Victorias Secret models :p

I'd rather the UK renationalised our transport service at the very least.

A state state run public transit system would be useful.

What is the transport like in Britain?

infrastructure and entitlements are the only reason to have any government of any kind.

public transit, all public transit everywhere, needs to be bolstered, supported, extended, redesigned if neccessary to make it economicly feasable to do so, and made even more environmentaly compatable then it already is. certainly more so then the automobile.

with much of the cost of doing so comming from what is now subsidising the oil and auto industry with roadbuilding and maintainence.

=^^=
.../\...

Infrastructure and entitlements are the only reason to have any government of any kind.

I'd disagree with you there (pro-state here), but that is for a different time (if ever).

Public transit, all public transit everywhere, needs to be bolstered, supported, extended, redesigned if neccessary to make it economicly feasable to do so, and made even more environmentaly compatable then it already is. certainly more so then the automobile.

With much of the cost of doing so comming from what is now subsidising the oil and auto industry with roadbuilding and maintainence.

I completely agree with you there. If even half of the money used to subsidise and/or tax various forms of private transport were used for public transport almost everyone would have cheaper travel.

It would be awesome if it was bought out by Victoria's Secret.

It would be awesome if it was bought out by Victoria's Secret.

Then no one would get off.... or buy way too much expensive stuff.

A state state run public transit system would be useful.

What is the transport like in Britain?


Rubbish as it happens. The shocking state of public transport (particularly in London) is, aside from the NHS, the thing that the British people complain about the most.

In fact, Connex used to run a railway franchise in South-East England, but they were so inept that the Government kicked them to the curb and gave the franchise to someone so other (equally poor) company.